Homosexuals. Are they accepted?

[Psalm91:4]

Coming from a heterosexual guy with plenty of experience who has been celibate by choice for over seven years, celibacy is not "great misery and alienation." You just concentrate on the higher vibration of spiritual love and deny the desire of soulish satisfaction.

"The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22,23)

PS: I even humbly rejected another marriage proposal today.

Inquiring minds want to know..since you brought it up here.  Was it that neighbor?     :)

I like that you brought up the fruits of the Spirit,  Tom, because self-control is such a FREEING fruit in areas such as are being discussed in this thread.

And it's not like an empty life just because the Lord is crucifying our sins of the flesh....the empty tomb is right around the corner from the cross, consisting of life more abundant.

There is no substitute for pure JOY, a fruit of His Spirit.   Though man tries in so many unfulfilling ways, bringing harm to himself....

He is the life and he came to give us his life in abundance.
:HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I'm not sure which neighbor you're talking about, sis, but it wasn't them. It was another lady I've known for awhile who asked me before too. There's a lot of widows and divorcees here where I live, but so far I've managed to fight them all off. A guy could just take his pick if he wanted to though. Never say never, right?

I actually experienced celibacy before in my life for awhile when I was a "younger man" and decided to get away from it all up in the mountains to clean up my act and get into God. I lived in a teepee for awhile and later in an old cabin without any indoor plumbing or electricity. I was poor by worldly standards, but I was rich with the blessing of being in the spirit alone in the woods just me and God. I had to walk long distances to get to civilization when I wanted to. For awhile I had to walk a couple of miles down off a mountain in deep snow to get to a road and hitchhike/walk another seven miles to town to go to a little church on Sunday. I almost married a lady in that church, but I decided to hitch back east to look for some steady work. When I was a kid I used to wonder how the nuns and priests could live without having lovers, but now I understand. It's not for everybody, but celibacy can be a blessing just as marriage can be. The thing is that even married folks have to exercise self-control because they have to resist temptation to hook up with other folks. So either way you're going to have to be faithful to a commitment. I'm not saying I'll never get together with another lady, but right now it's just me and God again.

[Psalm91:4]

May 5, 12:37 letter.  :)

You've lived a very adventurous life and I still think you should write an autobiography.  It truly is amazing all the things the Lord brought you through to where you are now, and serving him like you do on the board, and willing to discuss anything with whoever walks through the doors.

You are a very cool brother.   :friendstu:

[Tom]

God bless ya, sis, but I'm just a humble regular guy who tries to speak the truth.

[Seth]

Groups can have some "right" beliefs, but deep down hate and not show the love of God due to their/our own brokenness.  Don't go one way or another on what just a TV show or particular group says.  What does the Bible say?

UR or not, the scriptures do not condone sin.  We are to confess it (admit it) and seek deliverance from it.  As sheila said, it's been discussed several times, including recently, so I'm not sure we're going to launch into a long thread again on it here.  Basically, a general understood consensus of "most" in the recent long discussion was that any sin is obviously wrong, we're not to reject or hate people, instead we are to love all and seek restoration of people to God and His will.  Jesus died for our sins.  He wants us out of them, not condoning them.  He wants us to overcome in and through Him.  We all fail, we all need grace and mercy and love and kindness.  But we also need truth, not condoning and excusing.  Truth in love.

To address specific point/questions, there are those who would twist the scriptures to their own demise (and the leading astray of others) 2 Peter 3:16, but the scriptures are clear.  Sin is sin. 

I Cor. 6: 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."  A true experience with God changes us.  Immediately, and also over time as we grow in Him.

Some try to convince that certain words don't mean what they truly mean, but Paul addressed it clearly in the following passage, without using "those words".  He used clear speech.  "Romans 1:26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.."

God loves, is compassionate..but He disciplines, saves and delivers.  We all are in need of forgiveness.

:thumbsup:

[newlove]

Hello Jabcat ,Hello Everyone
The sun is out strong this morning in France.
Jabcat : I have been re reading all posts on this thread
and wish to clarify something about this phraseof mine :
Quote
"Most though not all posts i have seen do see homosexuality as a sin though it is too unfairly picked
on as if worse than others"

What i meant was most posters agree that  it is unfairly seen as worse (by others)and NOT that they think it is
worse. Perhaps you read me wrong i think judging
by your reply which alarmed me.
Regarding this question my posts are chiefly exoratoryi see myself on the way to understanding
but not fully there on this.
I hope joanna will say what she thinks
after all this.

[lomarah]

Tom, congratulations on your almost engagement!  :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: We look at what Eve (the stony heart of Adam taken out so he could see what it looked like) did, and assume that it was a one time mistake, but it is the NATURE of Eve to choose the flesh (what she could see and touch, the natural realm), instead of the Spirit she couldn't see.  This is the very root of respect of persons and it goes all the way back into the garden. The serpent was more SUBTLE than all the other beasts of the field.

We've all been given this same heart that will ALWAYS choose the natural realm over the spiritual, because that's the nature of the beast. Only the grace and mercy of God expressed thru the restraining hand of the Spirit keeps us from doing/manifesting what is in our hearts, ie. if not for the grace of God, there go I.

Most people would be shocked to know that they have a homosexual spirit residing in their heart, that they have chosen not to give life to, but it is there none the less, because ALL SIN IS COMMON TO MAN. He made us from the dust of the earth, and the serpent and his seed were already cast down to the earth. That was not an accident; He planned it because we needed something to overcome. These are the HIDDEN things of the heart that He wants us to allow Him to cleanse us of in this hour. If it's hidden, you don't know it's there unless it's manifested outwardly.

Therefore if you judge them and it's in your heart, by the same measure you are judged. My  :2c:

[eaglesway]

Good post Card. As I have said before, ( I think I am agreeing with you here) there is a difference between judging/discerning and judging/condemning. There are three different Greek words that are interchangeably translated "judge/judging/damnation/condemnation" which causes some confusion. To discern is to be aware, and rightly so, that sin in the flesh is the culprit, which we have all walked in in its various forms- where to judge/condemn is not given to man, to condemn the person.

While it is given to man to condemn sin, in a measure- it is not until his own sins are fully condemned in Christ through the death of the flesh(I have died, yet I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me). Then having that heart of love one may  discern for others, and offer what the Spirit leads.....Sometimes reproof but most often mercy, which bears its own reproof of sin as it brings light.

11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,...

Forgiveness received for sin in the flesh becomes a spirit of reconciliation towards those who are still in the flesh- while discerning sin and offering deliverance through the One who has condemned sin in the flesh - offering His own flesh on a cross to receive the condemnation.

Therefore judgement is automatic for those who are in the flesh. Sometimes we think they need the re-inforcement of our condemnation, but God does not ask or command that of us. "I did not come to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved(delivered/healed/restored).

He does ask and command our discernment, and where much is forgiven there is much love, and the love must be there first, or the judgment is perverted into condemnation, which activates back to the condemner in "Woe unto you who condemns another while doing the same things yourself- for if you are breaking the law in one point, you are a lawbreaker".

A friend of mine used to say, "I am a beggar who was given bread, leading other beggars to the Giver, who found me".

I am a leper who was healed, offering this healing to other leppers- not in denying their leprosy- but leading them to the healer of it. This is the leprosy of sin. All are born with it. It manifests in various ways and at various times in the lives of those who are in Adam. It is conquered in Christ.

Picked this up on the net

"JUDGY & JUDGIER" OR "IT'S ELEMENTARY"
James 2:1-13
Krinos, Anakrinos, Diakrinos
Krites, Hupo-Krites
DISCERNING THINGS ON THE OUTSIDE
 Discerning signs – (Matthew 16:1-4)
 Discerning actions – (Matthew 7:15-20)
DISCERNING THINGS THAT ARE ON THE INSIDE (PICTURE OF AVOCADOS)
 Desires – (James 1:14)
 Motives – ((Hebrews 4:12)


We strive for objectivity, but must confess levels of subjectivity in most of our judgments.

Our judgments and discernments are meant for up-building the Kingdom of God and the individuals that make up that
community
.
How we judge and live with others is a reflection of the faith that we are living out.

We all have to make judgments. We do not have to be judgmental.

In this life, our default when it comes to judgment should be mercy. (James 2:13)

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

"So speak and so act" means we must first consider our own motives, and allow the word to sort them out in us, so that we are walking in the law that brings freedom.

[Tom]

I agree that sin is common to all mankind, and it just manifests differently in different people. I also agree that judgment is not just about condemnation. I think we use judgment every time we make any decision about anything. I also agree that we need to walk the walk if we talk the talk to provide a good example of the reality that God's love changes lives. 

[micah7:9]

 :2c: I'm just wondering if there was as much coverage and a "movement" going on for say child molesters, cold blooded murders, rapists if our thoughts and speech would be different? We all know, no one "sin" is greater or lesser....would there be this reaching out and understanding?
I personally think it would be quite different, it just seems that the sin of homosexuality is not looked on with the same view as a cold blooded killer, homosexuality is not a violent "sin" so it can be embraced with more reaching out in love? I guess I am just looking at homosexuality as a "trojan horse." I will say that it's troubling times and my glass darkly is not getting any clearer. Again just my :2c: :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I agree that all sin is sin regardless of what kind of sin, and we should always try to deal with the sin of our brothers and sisters in love not condemnation being ever mindful that we're also guilty of sin while doing so. I think some sin may be more severe than other sin though, but God is the judge. I think the reason some sin may be talked about more is because it may be politically controversial and more publicized in the news as is what's going on right now with recent legal issues. I agree that we're all guilty of sin, and there are various forms of sexual sin that aren't talked about as much as another. I think most folks have agreed that we all sin, and we shouldn't condemn anybody else for their sin. But I think we need to be honest about any sin when it's discussed, and not rationalize it by saying either somebody was born that way or that's just what they desire because that's the way they've always been. Behavior can be changed especially if you're inspired to do so. I know from experience in my own life. I've always been a practicing heterosexual, but there are other things in my life that needed to be changed. God's love changes lives. I'm far from perfect, but I'm in a lot better shape now than I used to be only by the grace of God. I don't think anybody here is saying anybody else should be condemned for their sin, just that they should keep it real about what is sin and what to do about it.   

[marie glen]

...decided to get away from it all up in the mountains to clean up my act and get into God. I lived in a teepee for awhile and later in an old cabin without any indoor plumbing or electricity. I was poor by worldly standards, but I was rich with the blessing of being in the spirit alone in the woods just me and God. I had to walk long distances...

I never lived in a teepee, but always wanted to.. did live in a cabin minus plumbing and heating tho and to this day it's still my favorite place I ever lived.. It was short lived though, and I only walked short distances.. But I did find God, or rather He found me, in the mountains, some few hundred miles away from that cabin locale.. And then some time later I really became a hermit, well part time - just me and God, when I was raising my kids, and they went to school, hubby was driving over the road then.. lots of time for seeking, for prayer, reading, study and listening in the quietness of (which we all know as) His voice..
    :smile:

[eaglesway]

:2c: I'm just wondering if there was as much coverage and a "movement" going on for say child molesters, cold blooded murders, rapists if our thoughts and speech would be different? We all know, no one "sin" is greater or lesser....would there be this reaching out and understanding?
I personally think it would be quite different, it just seems that the sin of homosexuality is not looked on with the same view as a cold blooded killer, homosexuality is not a violent "sin" so it can be embraced with more reaching out in love? I guess I am just looking at homosexuality as a "trojan horse." I will say that it's troubling times and my glass darkly is not getting any clearer. Again just my :2c: :HeartThrob:

I would hope, that after the rapist has been put in prison, there would be the same reaching out. Predatory sins must be handled at law first, to restrain the predator. And homosexuality is still a serious sin. Like adultery, it was a stoning offense under the Old Covenant. But in my opinion, the opposite of what you are saying is tru. Among Christians, homosexuality is the "singled out sin" that is viewed with greater hostility, while greed, obesity, jealous ambition, gossip, etc- get little attention. Ministers who have affairs are rehabilitated and put back in the ministry. Ministers who get rich on the gospel and steal from the saints do just fine. A minister or a saint who has a problem with homosexual tendencies is done for for good if exposed. Homosexuals are demonized among Christians. They are just sinners. We dont stone adulterers any more. Or homosexuals. Its a new covenant based on better promises and a word of reconciliation, as well as a word of repentance. But the power is in a changed life. I don't believe in homosexual Christians anymore than I agree with adulterous Christians. I believe in redeemed people reconciled, converted and then progressively growing into disciples of Christ, through both the mercy and the chastisements of a loving father.

[Tom]

It's peaceful out there in the mountains. So you can concentrate on "His voice."

[marie glen]

I agree that all sin is sin regardless of what kind of sin, and we should always try to deal with the sin of our brothers and sisters in love not condemnation being ever mindful that we're also guilty of sin while doing so. I think some sin may be more severe than other sin though, but God is the judge. I think the reason some sin may be talked about more is because it may be politically controversial and more publicized in the news as is what's going on right now with recent legal issues. I agree that we're all guilty of sin, and there are various forms of sexual sin that aren't talked about as much as another. I think most folks have agreed that we all sin, and we shouldn't condemn anybody else for their sin. But I think we need to be honest about any sin when it's discussed, and not rationalize it by saying either somebody was born that way or that's just what they desire because that's the way they've always been. Behavior can be changed especially if you're inspired to do so. I know from experience in my own life. I've always been a practicing heterosexual, but there are other things in my life that needed to be changed. God's love changes lives. I'm far from perfect, but I'm in a lot better shape now than I used to be only by the grace of God. I don't think anybody here is saying anybody else should be condemned for their sin, just that they should keep it real about what is sin and what to do about it.   

That sounds reasonable and down to earth to me.. Practical.. :smile:
..."love not condemnation"  :iagree: I consider myself to have one commandment - love

..but this doesn't mean I have to throw discernment out the door and say there is no sin, or sin is relative, that's man's thinking! No one I know is perfect! Including (or especially) me.. I don't speak a list of sins. Some of the nicest folks I know are gay. I don't say either way to them what I think about homosexuality, as they've never asked me. They know I'm a christian and hopefully, they know I love them. Until i detect the Spirit of the Lord directing me otherwise, that's the only seed I can plant.. If I get the chance to tell them about the Lord, i can surely do that w/o even addressing the issue of homosexuality.. It's not my job to convince anyone of sin, that, to me, is the Holy spirit's job/working

It's peaceful out there in the mountains. So you can concentrate on "His voice."

  :smile: :smile:

[marie glen]

I would hope, that after the rapist has been put in prison, there would be the same reaching out. Predatory sins must be handled at law first, to restrain the predator. And homosexuality is still a serious sin. Like adultery, it was a stoning offense under the Old Covenant. But in my opinion, the opposite of what you are saying is tru. Among Christians, homosexuality is the "singled out sin" that is viewed with greater hostility, while greed, obesity, jealous ambition, gossip, etc- get little attention. Ministers who have affairs are rehabilitated and put back in the ministry. Ministers who get rich on the gospel and steal from the saints do just fine. A minister or a saint who has a problem with homosexual tendencies is done for for good if exposed. Homosexuals are demonized among Christians. They are just sinners. We dont stone adulterers any more. Or homosexuals. Its a new covenant based on better promises and a word of reconciliation, as well as a word of repentance. But the power is in a changed life. I don't believe in homosexual Christians anymore than I agree with adulterous Christians. I believe in redeemed people reconciled, converted and then progressively growing into disciples of Christ, through both the mercy and the chastisements of a loving father.

    :Gclap: :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

:2c: I'm just wondering if there was as much coverage and a "movement" going on for say child molesters, cold blooded murders, rapists if our thoughts and speech would be different? We all know, no one "sin" is greater or lesser....would there be this reaching out and understanding?
I personally think it would be quite different, it just seems that the sin of homosexuality is not looked on with the same view as a cold blooded killer, homosexuality is not a violent "sin" so it can be embraced with more reaching out in love? I guess I am just looking at homosexuality as a "trojan horse." I will say that it's troubling times and my glass darkly is not getting any clearer. Again just my :2c: :HeartThrob:

I would hope, that after the rapist has been put in prison, there would be the same reaching out. Predatory sins must be handled at law first, to restrain the predator. And homosexuality is still a serious sin. Like adultery, it was a stoning offense under the Old Covenant. But in my opinion, the opposite of what you are saying is tru. Among Christians, homosexuality is the "singled out sin" that is viewed with greater hostility, while greed, obesity, jealous ambition, gossip, etc- get little attention. Ministers who have affairs are rehabilitated and put back in the ministry. Ministers who get rich on the gospel and steal from the saints do just fine. A minister or a saint who has a problem with homosexual tendencies is done for for good if exposed. Homosexuals are demonized among Christians. They are just sinners. We dont stone adulterers any more. Or homosexuals. Its a new covenant based on better promises and a word of reconciliation, as well as a word of repentance. But the power is in a changed life. I don't believe in homosexual Christians anymore than I agree with adulterous Christians. I believe in redeemed people reconciled, converted and then progressively growing into disciples of Christ, through both the mercy and the chastisements of a loving father.

I really meant no more than putting down thoughts that wandered into my thinking of the subject.  I do not have an argument nor wish one as to your response. :Peace2:

[Tom]

I agree that holy spirit will convince people that they need to change their ways, and that applies to all of us. I think that's why it's important to walk the walk when we talk the talk to provide the proper example, not of a perfect person, but a person who believes God and tries to serve God in everything we not only say, but everything we do. We are all going to fail from time to time, but you can't give up. You have to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep on truckin.

[dajomaco]

We are all in the same boat.
We can decide who we sit next to.

Those who are not in  the boat are the ones who can walk on water.

[Tom]

Well, I'm glad I'm in the boat, bro, because I ain't holy enough to walk on water.

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

:2c: I'm just wondering if there was as much coverage and a "movement" going on for say child molesters, cold blooded murders, rapists if our thoughts and speech would be different? We all know, no one "sin" is greater or lesser....would there be this reaching out and understanding?
I personally think it would be quite different, it just seems that the sin of homosexuality is not looked on with the same view as a cold blooded killer, homosexuality is not a violent "sin" so it can be embraced with more reaching out in love? I guess I am just looking at homosexuality as a "trojan horse." I will say that it's troubling times and my glass darkly is not getting any clearer. Again just my :2c: :HeartThrob:

I would hope, that after the rapist has been put in prison, there would be the same reaching out. Predatory sins must be handled at law first, to restrain the predator. And homosexuality is still a serious sin. Like adultery, it was a stoning offense under the Old Covenant. But in my opinion, the opposite of what you are saying is tru. Among Christians, homosexuality is the "singled out sin" that is viewed with greater hostility, while greed, obesity, jealous ambition, gossip, etc- get little attention. Ministers who have affairs are rehabilitated and put back in the ministry. Ministers who get rich on the gospel and steal from the saints do just fine. A minister or a saint who has a problem with homosexual tendencies is done for for good if exposed. Homosexuals are demonized among Christians. They are just sinners. We dont stone adulterers any more. Or homosexuals. Its a new covenant based on better promises and a word of reconciliation, as well as a word of repentance. But the power is in a changed life. I don't believe in homosexual Christians anymore than I agree with adulterous Christians. I believe in redeemed people reconciled, converted and then progressively growing into disciples of Christ, through both the mercy and the chastisements of a loving father.

I really meant no more than putting down thoughts that wandered into my thinking of the subject.  I do not have an argument nor wish one as to your response. :Peace2:

[newlove]

As Eaglesway said
Quote:
Homosexuals are demonized among Christians. They are just sinners. We dont stone adulterers any more"

Very well put.

Though re some sins being worse (and i m not saying
anyone here said that about  homosexuality)
Cs  Lewis said pride was the worst
and aren t some sins termed "mortal " or "deadly"
or is that just catholic stuff ?(or of the tradition ?)

[Joanna]

There could be a homosexual in a relationship with a gay partner reading this forum and he wants to be accepted by God.

[sheila]

   one assurance we have..and can take comfort in..is just this..   No matter what state of being a slave to sin any fellowman/brother

  is in......he/she,too....will also bear the image of the incorrupt one...and be delivered from it.


  my daughter is bipolar and drug addict/with the lifestyle that is associated with it......and God has comforted me greatly in the salvation

  of all.  So,too....all people may hope in HIM...and not reckon themselves as the 'cursed' of God.But blessed through Christ

    God has waived His judgement...through His son...and chosen to show mercy unto all men. To bind up all sin wounds of man

  and restore man into the image of HIS SON. Jesus..when on the cross..while they were in the VERY ACT of killing him.....

  prayed the Father...'Father forgive them..they know not what they do"  Following His lead..we should also have this mind in us.

   I think my heart and mind is finally settled regarding this.  As I have an inner peace about this issue,now.  And am no more

wrestling in my thoughts regarding the matter.