Homosexuals. Are they accepted?

[jabcat]

IMO, these aren't difficult obscure Greek words or concepts, nor are they subjective. 

Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,...

Just as lying, stealing, murdering, adultery, envying, gluttony, fornication, pride, hate, jeolousy etc.. - any sin of the flesh - all to be taken before the Lord, admitted as sin (God gives grace to the humble ["Lord have mercy on me a sinner"]) surrendering to His will, looking to Him for forgiveness, cleansing, and deliverance. 


Is there anything new (and truly useful/edifying) to add to this thread folks? 

I don't think active homosexual activity or any other sin is going to be "officially" accepted here as "OK" and to be excused or accepted.  I really think the pertinent questions have been answered in this thread.  Is there anything further that's of benefit?  If not, it might be time to lock this and move on, rather than engage in circular arguments.  Thanks.

[Tom]

I agree because it just keeps coming down to us being requested to compromise on what God says plainly in scripture simply because it is now politically correct to accept the gay lifestyle as a civil right which is not really the issue here even though that's what keeps clouding the issue. We can have compassion for our brothers and sisters in this world without saying their sin is no longer sin just because they may have more political power now. God has good reason for prohibiting certain kinds of fleshly relationships, and we shouldn't try to doubt what God says or think it may be out of date or something that just doesn't apply anymore for whatever reason. People in denial about their sin, any sin, will never take the first step to change their ways. Everybody has to come to the decision of being honest with themselves and want to change to please God and honor God, and God will give you the power to change if you just ask him. I know from experience in my own life that I don't deserve God's love, but God loves me anyway. And God saved me from a life of sin because he loves me. That makes me feel very humble because I know I'm not worthy, but God is love.

[newlove]

I do take Tom s point there. And by all means lock it.
But let me say this .
Consider when the pope made some concession on condoms. Yes to prevent aids. People should not do many things yet they do and it is comensurate with compassion and facing human frailty that the pope acted pragmatically. That people sin sexually is no reason to prevent them from protection.
If this gets locked before someone answers my final question please pm me but i hope it
remains open for this :
What did christ himself say about homosexuality
and if it is absent shouldn t we be considering what that means ? Because don t we see evolution from o.t
law to New T with Christ as foremost?

[Tom]

First, I think "evolution" is a loaded word that shouldn't even be associated with scripture, and second, I think all of scripture is what Jesus Christ said because he is the word of God. And the fact is that in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures we see clear teaching about what is sin even if we don't understand why something is sin or still considered sin after somebody might think scripture should have experienced an "evolution" to now sanction some sin. A man and woman become one flesh in marriage the way God intended it regardless of what the courts say. Those are the same courts that say it's all right to kill unborn children too, but that's not right either. I think there are many crazy laws on the books that I don't think are morally right. I think everybody needs to use their own conscience, but you ought to have that harmonize with God's will not just civil law. By the way, I meant no personal offense to any brother or sister or to Tentmaker, as I never do, even though I may use an unorthodox method to get a point across sometimes. And sometimes I may find some humor in something when I think it gets to the point of being ridiculous, instead of getting upset about it, but I realize sometimes my humor isn't perceived as such. So I'm sorry for being the crazy old fool I am who prefers to look at life with a smile rather than a frown, but, hey, I gotta be me. 

[jabcat]

What did christ himself say about homosexuality
and if it is absent shouldn t we be considering what that means ?

I believe Christ addressed it in Romans chapter 1 and elsewhere.

I think we could come up with a whole list of things that aren't recorded as Jesus Himself saying during His specific earthly ministry to the Jews - leading up to His sacrifice for us all. But Jesus and God are present in every word of scripture that's inspired by the Holy Spirit.  So IMO, He addresses it.

[jabcat]

http://www.aglassdimly.com/2009/12/29/jesus-never-talked-about-x/

"Jesus Never Talked About X"


Jesus was a Jew.  He didn't come to begin a religion; he came as the culmination of the Old Testament, in its prophecies & promises.

With that in mind, does anybody really think Jesus had to repeat everything from the Old Testament in his teachings–or we can dismiss it?  That would be a pretty odd expectation.

And yet, modern religious discussion seems to have a new trump-card:  "Jesus never talked about ______."  If Jesus never talked about [insert traditional/conservative/disliked belief], then supposedly it has no place in true Christianity–it's just man-made. 

The Problems
Does anyone really think that if Jesus didn't explicitly, directly mention something, it's not sin? Did he talk about rape?  Child abuse?  Did he mention the common infanticide practiced in the Roman Empire?  Did he mention bestiality?

We know he spoke about murder, and sexual immorality in general.  But we don't know that he ever mentioned these others.  Does that mean he condoned them?

So where does this thinking go wrong?

The first problem:  The written gospel accounts don't pretend to record everything Jesus said.  We can't say, "Jesus never mentioned X."  We can only say, "The gospel writers didn't include anything about it."  Each gospel writer included and emphasized different portions of Jesus' teaching; they don't claim to include all of it.

Even if Jesus himself actually did directly mention every moral issue during his time on earth, we don't have everything he said.

The second problem: Red-letter Christianity.

Sometimes, modern printings of the Bible put the words of Jesus in red letters.  And some people view the red letters as the only part that's really Scripture, really God's word.  Oddly, people will reject Jesus' own view of the Scriptures.  He appealed to the Old Testament as the word of God; he affirmed Moses and the Psalms and the prophets.  They spoke by the Spirit of God–the same Spirit by whom the apostles & prophets of the New Testament spoke.


And that takes us back to the first problem: Jesus didn't come to create a new religion.  He's not dropping in out of the blue and starting with a blank slate.  Jesus is a Jew; Christianity continues & builds on Judaism.  And according to Jesus, he didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

The Law was from the Father, with whom Jesus is one.  When he criticized the prevailing morality, it was because they departed from the Law for the sake of man-made traditions.  But the Law itself was the word of God.

If we take Jesus in the gospels seriously, we have to take the rest of the Bible seriously.  Jesus, the Word of God, affirmed Scripture as the word of God.  You can't separate its teachings from his.

[Tom]

Amen

[Seth]

:2thumbs:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen.

I would like to add to the conversation, that newlove's first language I believe is French, so posters please be thoughtful of this as well as with other posters on this board from other countries whose first language is not English. Their choice of words may or may not be what we are used to for the same thought to be expressed and  may lead to misunderstandings of meaning when there may or may not be any at all. Thanks

And newlove, maybe you crossed paths because God wanted you to display His love and Jesus Christ to him/them. That would be my guess.... :dontknow:

[Tom]

I think newlove is a compassionate believer, and I hope you and newlove understand I meant no offense. Sometimes I may seem like a bull in a China shop with my method of operation. I don't even deny being crazy, but I'm harmless. So peace to you, brother or sister newlove, whatever the case may be. It's a mystery to me.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, I agree. Never hurts to post a reminder from time to time that we do have an international fellowship on here. Blessings... :thumbsup:

[newlove]

Thankyou all . That s ok Tom. To sort it out and remain civil at the end counts for a lot.
Cardinal thanks for your thoughts there on why they contacted me. Actually i am a
Native speaker from Uk but with
30 years away the English can get a bit ropey In the heat of the moment.

I am really fairly new as a christian and simply do not know all these things . Perhaps you think i must be perversely trying to undermine what is held sacred? That s certainly not true though. I took no delight and actually found this all rather nervewracking .Not to say absent of value though.
Neither am i pro PC,its something that exasperates me. (i know you didn t say that )
I am concerned though that lgbt people certainly never appear in our church and think it is broadly true
and fear that will persist.
This is my chief sticking point the other is hell so
we re all ok there !
Peace.

[CHB]

I agree because it just keeps coming down to us being requested to compromise on what God says plainly in scripture simply because it is now politically correct to accept the gay lifestyle as a civil right which is not really the issue here even though that's what keeps clouding the issue. We can have compassion for our brothers and sisters in this world without saying their sin is no longer sin just because they may have more political power now. God has good reason for prohibiting certain kinds of fleshly relationships, and we shouldn't try to doubt what God says or think it may be out of date or something that just doesn't apply anymore for whatever reason. People in denial about their sin, any sin, will never take the first step to change their ways. Everybody has to come to the decision of being honest with themselves and want to change to please God and honor God, and God will give you the power to change if you just ask him. I know from experience in my own life that I don't deserve God's love, but God loves me anyway. And God saved me from a life of sin because he loves me. That makes me feel very humble because I know I'm not worthy, but God is love.

Tom, I agree with everything you say here but I think what you said here ...."Everybody has to come to the decision of being honest with themselves and want to change to please God and honor God,"....will only become a reality when every knee will bow.

CHB

[Tom]

I agree because those who don't believe will obviously not get with the program until then.

[Jock]

Hi folks, interesting thread. Is homosexuality ok? Is murder ok? Is stealing ok? They are all sin! All of these things and countless others caused Christ to suffer and die. Can we change? Can we stop sinning? no. Dear brothers and sisters, what we all need (the accused and the accuser) is a new heart

Here is a video by Clyde Pilkington that may shed some light on the matter Christ came for sinners and I am one.

Shalom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nugau884htc

Jock.

[sheila]

we shall all be changed...and be a new creature.  no matter how marred or what form of sin..we have bore in the image

  of the corrupt one.  Because of His GREAT LOVE......    Take heart all people.  OUR GOD REIGNS!!!

[Jock]

Sheila

Amen and Amen! :thumbsup:   :banana: :dsunny:

[Dandelion]

Absolutely....that is what this blog is really all about. That, eventually, we will all know our God and He will save us....totally and completely.....forever.


For, lo, I am creating new heavens, and a new earth, And the former things are not remembered, Nor do they ascend on the heart. Isaiah 65:17

:cheerleader:

[micah7:9]

The judges ruled.....it is law. I would like to know what law of 10 was has been obeyed and which laws[of many] are held to? Laws seem to disfigure the carnal nature in thought, like a "no trespassing sign" which seems to bring out the worst of man's disobedience.
I cannot admit to clear understanding, yet should I continue to believe in Jesus Christ, I must, through my seeing in a glass darkly, embrace the depth and width of my Savoir's LOVE for all His children.  :2c: :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

My problem is I believe in the nuclear family as the building block of community. Male and female He created them. I condemn no one, but I know one symptom of the disintegration of a society is the loss of respect for the connection between a mother, a father and their children. The answer is not to condemn gay people, but it is not to approve homosexuality either. Acknowledging that we, as acommunity, as a nation, have forsaken the Creator and become fools, darkened in our understanding, would be a beginning point, but although I pray in faith, sometimes I think the die is cast and it is just too late, beyond out intercessions for the individuals we are connected to in our own lives.

[micah7:9]

 :iagree:

The mystery of the Creator's plan is yet unfolding and Wisdom is revealed beneath the clearing away of the rumble from earthquakes. :2c: :dsunny:

[tm55]

One more reason why "Jesus never talked about homosexuality" is irrelevant:

Unlike Paul, Jesus' audience almost always consisted of Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, zealots and/or garden variety Jews.  Regarding homosexuality, all of these groups would have agreed with Jesus because they agreed with the Law (Matt. 5:17).  Therefore there was simply nothing to say.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: What most denominations fail to recognize is that it's a demonic spirit controlling them, and condemning them only makes it stronger, because condemnation ministers death to the hearer. We have to love unconditionally regardless of the sin, and pray for the one caught in the trap of the enemy, otherwise we ourselves are judged.

Because most don't understand that the enemy of our soul works thru thoughts so subtle we can't discern the difference between the two without the Word in our hearts to mediate, the enemy comes in, sometimes from the womb (thus some claim they were born that way and in a fashion they were but not the way they think) and begins speaking. A thought eventually becomes an attitude, if entertained, and an attitude becomes an action that anchors it to the flesh even more.
This is true of any sin. Thus we are told to bring all thoughts into captivity to the mind of Christ. But if they don't know the mind of Christ (the Spirit breathed Word), they have nothing to compare it to.

The individual thinks because their flesh body senses respond to stimuli the way it was created to, that that is a sure sign that they are gay or lesbian because they enjoyed the senses, but it's just another lie of the enemy that create an attitude, then another and another action follows, until they are so bound they can't escape without the direct intervention of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And as someone used of the Lord for deliverance over the decades, I can tell you personally I know it's a strong unclean spirit, and does not like to leave it's host.

I have brought this situation to the Lord for understanding many times because of being used to minister to some, and you can't minister without wisdom from above.

The same principle has worked on the masses, regarding creating an attitude and an action, if you look at what has happened to the USA in the last 30 years regarding this topic. Back then it was rarely discussed, hidden. Now there is a gay or lesbian character on nearly every television sitcom, they have their own cable channel and programming, and have managed to overturn laws to suit themselves while convincing nearly everyone that differs with their views on it, that they are "narrow minded, homophobic, discriminatory, unfair, ect.".

It's desensitizing and a form of brainwashing. Hitler said something along the lines of, give me your children at 6 and they will be mine forever. The head of the main gay organization in NYC said that several years ago, right after they managed to get books into kindergarden classes with titles like, "Why Joanie has 2 mommies or Why David has 2 daddies". This has been a spiritual war for decades and most have slept thru it.

I don't think they have ever considered this fact, but GOD "discriminates" and it is not a dirty word, it's called righteousness and it's His prerogative to define it's characteristics. My  :2c: Blessings....

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:    exactly Bex!

[Patinak]

Cardinal,
You have written a very thought provoking piece, thank you.
Would you explain in a little further depth the following: "What most denominations fail to recognize is that it's a demonic spirit controlling them, and condemning them only makes it stronger, because condemnation ministers death to the hearer."?

Thanks,
Pat