Weekly Spiritual Discipline

[sheila]

O"Lloyd......just putting up with one another in love when offenses come

  IS SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINE......exercizing grace,and forgiving..is spiritual discipline..

   we need to be so good at this..that if we be put to death on a cross..

  we can say 'Father forgive them,they know not what they do."

   Just start joining in on the posts..and you'll get plenty of spiritual discipline

  exercize,Brother........ :HeartThrob:

[ded2daworld]

Lloyd a book I found helpful and is free online was recommended to me by someone on this forum. It is terrific with a lot of insight and spiritual deepness. :Peace2:

http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf

[Lloyd]

I don't find the word "discipline" in that book. What word should I look for instead? Or what passage are you suggesting? If you're trying to get me to stop looking to learn discipline the way I think I should, what's the point? Do you think I'm sinning by following my own inspiration? Anyone ever hear of "To each his/her own"? Folks seem intolerant around here.

[ded2daworld]

I didn't mean anything like that or even imply it. I said I found the book helpful, had a lot of insight and was spiritually deep.
I guess I shouldv'e stated it had nothing to do one way or the other with discipline. May God bless your efforts. :Peace2:

[misszoolander]

Hey Lloyd,
Please find it in your heart to forgive us if you think we are being judgmental etc,
What exactly are you finding hard with spiritual discipline?  :friendstu:

For me I find it hard to control my thoughts.  :Peace2:

[Colleen]

Well Lloyd, I don't know if you will come back here or not. It looks like my post offended you too and that was not my intent at all. I, too am sorry and ask your forgiveness. I was trying to say it bothered me that a brother was offended. What I took you to mean as "spiritual discipline" was a bunch more rules to follow to get closer to my Abba. Probably not what you meant at all. As I am just recently released from churchianity I go between feeling guilty and being free often many times in a day or even an hour. Peace to you and blessings on your walk.  :girlheart:

[Lloyd]

Things here seem a bit more hopeful today. I know you all probably have meant well by your various sharings, but I sensed a fair amount of intolerance nonetheless, and I'm guessing the intolerance is largely subconscious, or you all probably would have corrected yourselves before posting. Don't worry, I'm not pretending to be blameless. I'm just trying to be usefully honest.

Thanks to those who asked for forgiveness. I don't think asking for forgiveness is what you should have done. I think the thing to do was to apologize, because only you can forgive yourselves. But I'm not picky. I take the requests for forgiveness as apologies. And I appreciate them. Now I'll reply to recent individual replies.

sheila: O"Lloyd... ...just putting up with one another in love when offenses come IS SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINE... ...exercizing grace,and forgiving..is spiritual discipline.. we need to be so good at this .. that if we be put to death on a cross .. we can say 'Father forgive them, they know not what they do." Just start joining in on the posts .. and you'll get plenty of spiritual discipline

Although you seem to have wanted to make peace by this statement, it felt to me like it had an undercurrent of lack of tolerance for my own way of doing spiritual discipline.

ded2daworld: Lloyd a book I found helpful and is free online was recommended to me by someone on this forum. It is terrific with a lot of insight and spiritual deepness. :Peace2: http://www.jakecolsen.com/JakeStory.pdf
Lloyd: I don't find the word "discipline" in that book. What word should I look for instead? Or what passage are you suggesting? If you're trying to get me to stop looking to learn discipline the way I think I should, what's the point? Do you think I'm sinning by following my own inspiration? Anyone ever hear of "To each his/her own"? Folks seem intolerant around here.
ded2daworld: I didn't mean anything like that or even imply it. I said I found the book helpful, had a lot of insight and was spiritually deep. I guess I shouldv'e stated it had nothing to do one way or the other with discipline. May God bless your efforts. :Peace2:

Since this thread topic is spiritual discipline, I think I had to assume that the book either related to that or to the idea that discipline is folly or something. I accept your last reply as an apology, if you like. I've learned that a change to a friendly attitude can serve as an apology without the need for actual words of apology. So, if it helps, my change of attitude can be taken that way too, if anyone wants to.

misszoolander: Hey Lloyd, Please find it in your heart to forgive us if you think we are being judgmental etc, What exactly are you finding hard with spiritual discipline?  :friendstu: For me I find it hard to control my thoughts.  :Peace2:

Thanks, but you're the only one who can forgive yourself if you find you've made a mistake. I think it's necessary to be judgmental in order to distinguish between right and wrong. I think intolerance was the problem. Hopefully, folks will stop being so uptight and will tolerate me doing things in ways that seem right to me, as long as those ways aren't hurting anyone else. Thanks for sharing about difficulty controlling your thoughts. That's the sort of discussion I've been looking for here, which I feel could help my spiritual discipline. My discipline problem includes that a little (thought control), but mainly it involves not having anyone to discuss spiritual matters with, or to discuss weekly plans with. Perhaps I can still solve that problem here.

Colleen: Well Lloyd, I don't know if you will come back here or not. It looks like my post offended you too and that was not my intent at all. I, too am sorry and ask your forgiveness. I was trying to say it bothered me that a brother was offended. What I took you to mean as "spiritual discipline" was a bunch more rules to follow to get closer to my Abba. Probably not what you meant at all. As I am just recently released from churchianity I go between feeling guilty and being free often many times in a day or even an hour. Peace to you and blessings on your walk.

Thanks for the apology and sharing about your problem with false guilt. I'm lucky in not having had much problem with false guilt, as far as I can recall anyway. I know I had a little of that, but not much. I value true guilt, because I want to be aware of my own wrong-doing and I don't know how I could do that without experiencing guilt. Guilt tells me: Lloyd, that wasn't the right thing to do. It doesn't tell me I'm worthless or stupid or hopeless. Those are false guilt. It just tells me I did something wrong and I need to make amends or the like. If you like, feel free to share what your false guilt tells you. Another lucky break for me was overcoming perfectionism. Several decades ago I used to waste a lot of time looking for flaws in my surroundings that I thought I should try to fix. But I was learning helpful spiritual discipline at that time with some other people and that discipline helped me recognize that I was obsessing about flaws instead of asking God for advice. It wasn't until a couple years after that though that I let go of my barriers to God. I wasn't aware of the barriers until I asked myself one day if there was any falsehood to the feeling of loneliness that I occasionally felt. I immediately realized that indeed it was false that I was ever alone in the first place. God is always with me. The reason I felt alone was because I was afraid to get close to God, because I thought he was a perfectionist like Dad, who would have an endless list of difficult unrewarding tasks for me to do if I were to give myself to God. So I saw that God is not like our elders or role models and doesn't want to be our dictator, but just our best friend. God only wants to give us the best advice there is any time we think to ask for it. I'm thinking of posting before long some info on spiritual discipline that I found online lately.

[misszoolander]

Thanks, but you're the only one who can forgive yourself if you find you've made a mistake. I think it's necessary to be judgmental in order to distinguish between right and wrong. I think intolerance was the problem. Hopefully, folks will stop being so uptight and will tolerate me doing things in ways that seem right to me, as long as those ways aren't hurting anyone else. Thanks for sharing about difficulty controlling your thoughts. That's the sort of discussion I've been looking for here, which I feel could help my spiritual discipline. My discipline problem includes that a little (thought control), but mainly it involves not having anyone to discuss spiritual matters with, or to discuss weekly plans with. Perhaps I can still solve that problem here.

Have I made a mistake? A mistake to me, is if you have taken offence to anything I have said.
Let's move on to the current topic rather then how right/wrong/judgmental we are. 

I have trouble controlling my thoughts as my mind afters wanders without me thinking, I often also get strange thoughts just pop up in my head for little reason. These thoughts are not nice... thoughts about revenge, greed, pride.

[sheila]

oh yes....the evil contrast negative input.....firstly..realize that they are not

  'you" that you are a new creature born of the will of God.  Though they try to

convince you they 'are' you..and have 'your' bests interests at heart..seperate

  yourself from them...and realize they have 'no part of you anymore"

    Our Father, can and does at times..turn up the volume..of this negative

  contrast..so that you may actually hear it as an audible 'voice'  That is one

of the things that He did for me,to make me aware.  I  heard a voice pressuring

me to do something that was not what I wanted!!!  I thought,'man,maybe I need a

psychiatrist?"  Shook me up a little.

  Rebuke them..say 'get behind me satan" etc.  or, if around other people,just mentally

do it. One time they 'dogged' me..even though I rebuked them time and again..

til I finally cried out 'how long must I put up with you!"  they were trying to stir up

dissension and hard feeling between me and my neighbor. 'venegeance."

  they love to wreck any loving kind or peaceful relations between men.

  they are often involved with people taking offense,misunderstandings etc.

    you can use the opportunity to glorify God in it..and put them in their place

  under your feet 'trampled"

  they do more than this..incite physical anger...your body may shake as you

  submit them under..clenched teeth.......demonic madness or uncontrollable

rages can occur to those who do not  get the mastery over them Gen 4;7

[lomarah]

Amen to that Sheila.

MissZ I struggled with intrusive thoughts for a long time. Horrible ones. Angry, murderous, etc. It was the exact opposite of who I really am (and who you really are!) Yet the thoughts were so loud and so frequent that I started thinking maybe I was some kind of psychopath. I became extremely anxious and constantly worried that one day I might snap and actually commit some of these thoughts. The demons literally had me convinced that in order to save my family and those around me I had to commit suicide. It was at that time that I first truly cried out to God because I knew what my death would do to my mother yet I could not live like that anymore. Needless to say, He saved me and put great peace and joy into my heart. He has only very recently shown me for a certainty what Sheila just told you - those thoughts are not coming from you! They are from demons. THIS is what He saves us from - sin (demons)! They are horrible because they will place those thoughts there and then accuse you for thinking them! But they aren't you and do not originate from you. Ask Father to show you, it makes a world of difference! He is jealous for us and is going to destroy all those things that hurt us (demons).  :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

Or don't you know that the saints will judge the world?

Don't you know that we will judge angels—not to mention ordinary matters?

The battle is in our mind.
I did not have the faith required to cast out demons
in any sort of demonstrative way.

I found that reading from Corinthians, out loud.
Reminded me that I would be judging the angels (fallen)
So I said out loud that which ever demon was messing with me now
I was going to remember to make sure I judged that particular one 

That was years ago tremendous relieve from fear replaced by LOVE
Thank you Lord and Savior  Jesus Christ

[sheila]

     Amen,Daj and Lo. :thumbsup:



    ...i really am going to have to start reading what i type!

[lomarah]

I wonder... are we judging them in a sense now? By rejecting them? Isn't that judgment?

[sheila]

  I think it sure could be,Lo.....judgement begins at the 'house' of the Lord...

  if His spirit be in you...your body be His temple or 'house'  if ye would judge

  yourselves 'be a worker at 'home', ye would not be judged. :dontknow:

  works for me!

[sheila]

...the spiritual man judges all things,but himself is not judged.

[lomarah]

     Amen,Daj and Lo. :thumbsup:



    ...i really am going to have to start reading what i type!

LOL Sheila I was thinking, hmmm I think that's probably supposed to say amen... maybe she got distracted by my lion?  :LH:

And yeah, the verse you will judge angels had been in my head the past couple days and the thought kept coming that some of us are judging them now. Rejecting them, considering them worthy to be burned. Sounds like judgment to me!!   :gimmefive:

[sheila]

   me too!

[shawn]

I think it's important to note the difference between judgment and discernment.  Judgment comes from pride, a haughty spirit.  There is no love in judgement as it points its nose down at others.  Spiritual discernment helps us decide between right and wrong, it also helps us sharpen one another in love. 

As for Lloyd being offended by discussion, sharpening, and discernment...well I find that unfortunate.  It always pains me when I know my words have offended a brother in Christ.  I am not callous to that.  With that said, I'm not responsible for how another receives my words, but I am responsible for how I deliver them.  I am responsible for the tone, motive, and delivery of spiritual truths as I understand them.  So, in cases where a brother is offended I use it as an opportunity to learn and grow.  I use it as I would a mirror to look at my reflection. 

For me, I do have a propensity for intolerance to ideas and concepts within my spiritual journey that i feel trap, enslave, legalize etc.  My reactions to such things can be emotional at times.  That visceral reaction can rub others the wrong way.  It's something I'm working on.

Lloyd, I should have been more selective with some of my words.  I talked to you like someone I have known for years...open, honest...just how I see things.  But, on a message board where you can't see my face, body language, or hear my expression I need to be more selective with my word usage. 

Btw:  I did not call you egotistical.  I was expressing the idea of offense coming from ego.  We All have ego...are offended, embarrassed etc.  When I'm offended, someone insulted my ego, and my reactions to that offense do not come from love. 

[lomarah]

I dunno Shawn. It clearly says in there that we will judge angels lol! God knows our hearts. I am very aware that pride lives in me... rejecting it - that is judging it as "wrong"... unloving may be a better word. Useless or worthless even. "Dung". I think we can all agree that pride has a dung-like stench, yes? That's what I'm referring to about "judging" the "angels" (evil spirits/sin). It's most likely that judgment has taken on  a derogatory term. So quite possibly what you mean by discernment and what I am saying about "judging" are the same things. :)

[misszoolander]

Amen to that Sheila.

MissZ I struggled with intrusive thoughts for a long time. Horrible ones. Angry, murderous, etc. It was the exact opposite of who I really am (and who you really are!) Yet the thoughts were so loud and so frequent that I started thinking maybe I was some kind of psychopath. I became extremely anxious and constantly worried that one day I might snap and actually commit some of these thoughts. The demons literally had me convinced that in order to save my family and those around me I had to commit suicide. It was at that time that I first truly cried out to God because I knew what my death would do to my mother yet I could not live like that anymore. Needless to say, He saved me and put great peace and joy into my heart. He has only very recently shown me for a certainty what Sheila just told you - those thoughts are not coming from you! They are from demons. THIS is what He saves us from - sin (demons)! They are horrible because they will place those thoughts there and then accuse you for thinking them! But they aren't you and do not originate from you. Ask Father to show you, it makes a world of difference! He is jealous for us and is going to destroy all those things that hurt us (demons).  :HeartThrob:

I recognized pretty quickly that these thoughts were not entirely my own, in fact it felt like my will was being tested, a battle inside the mind. However I am thankful for the tests that my mind has been subjected too, because it has allowed me to double check myself and I am much more aware of my thoughts, and I tend to handle them a lot easier now :)

[Colleen]

Lomorah your last two posts on judging have really helped me. Shawn , what clear thinking on written words. Also helpful. I realized how my post came off only after Lloyd pointed it out and how I had misjudged the term so quickly because of my past trauma with ET. Sheila your comments on thoughts reminded me of a time when the powerful words, "these thoughts are not my thoughts" released me from a lot of that negative, accusing chatter was getting louder and more constant in my head and I knew/know so little about spiritual warfare. For example, I cast them off and figured I was done with that for good. Haha, yeah right. It's been such a wild ride for me these last three years. I'm so glad The Lord led me to this forum. Sharpening indeed!  More like I got my entire previous fifty years on the potter's wheel pounded back into a lump and started all over. Yes, quite a blow to Mr. Ego! But who would have it any other way with the knowledge of Christ crucified. Bye bye dung!  "No, no!", says Mr. Ego.  "Yes, yes!", says the new creation.
For me these boards have been a big ETer's anonymous meeting. Maybe we oughtta have a room like that. Maybe we do. Sharing our experience, strength and hope. Taking what we like and leaving the rest.

[Colleen]

Oh and Ded a super shout out for the link to "So You Don't Want to Go to Church Anymore. I'm being super blessed!

[ded2daworld]

 :URWelcome: :dsunny: :Peace2:

[shawn]

I dunno Shawn. It clearly says in there that we will judge angels lol! God knows our hearts. I am very aware that pride lives in me... rejecting it - that is judging it as "wrong"... unloving may be a better word. Useless or worthless even. "Dung". I think we can all agree that pride has a dung-like stench, yes? That's what I'm referring to about "judging" the "angels" (evil spirits/sin). It's most likely that judgment has taken on  a derogatory term. So quite possibly what you mean by discernment and what I am saying about "judging" are the same things. :)

You have a good point  :laughing7:

I'm thinking not about God's judgment, or any sort of judgment that comes after death.  I'm thinking about an act that separates ourselves from others. 

[micah7:9]

I cor. 6:3 Are you not aware that we shall be judging messengers, not to mention life's affairs? (CLT)
1Co 6:3  have ye not known that we shall judge messengers? why not then the things of life? (YLT)
3 not know you, that messengers we shall judge? much more then things of this life? (Diaglott)