Do we have an immortal soul??

[Lazarus Short]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

[micah7:9]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

And ABSOLUTE Truth :dsunny:

i, personally have asked the question, where in the Bible was man given a soul(a soul is a breathing creature H5315)?

[rosered]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

  lOL  LAZ !!     
I do see soul and Life  as  interchangeable
   so in  saying       you do not have a LIFE  -you are a LIFE 

   Ezekiel 18:4

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.


4 Behold, all lives are mine; as the life of the father, so also the life of the son is mine: the life that sins it shall die.

for me its not that big of a difference or deal ?       whats missing  ?

[Lazarus Short]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

  lOL  LAZ !!     
I do see soul and Life  as  interchangeable
   so in  saying       you do not have a LIFE  -you are a LIFE 

   Ezekiel 18:4

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.


4 Behold, all lives are mine; as the life of the father, so also the life of the son is mine: the life that sins it shall die.

for me its not that big of a difference or deal ?       whats missing  ?

So, how does that apply when someone tells you to "GET A LIFE!"?

[rosered]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

  lOL  LAZ !!     
I do see soul and Life  as  interchangeable
   so in  saying       you do not have a LIFE  -you are a LIFE 

   Ezekiel 18:4

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.


4 Behold, all lives are mine; as the life of the father, so also the life of the son is mine: the life that sins it shall die.

for me its not that big of a difference or deal ?       whats missing  ?

So, how does that apply when someone tells you to "GET A LIFE!"?

  Ha!      yes ,  I have a life  lol   or maybe not ?? :eek:

[Lazarus Short]

Sometimes that comment makes me wonder what having a Life consists of...oh, yes, breathing mostly.

[Tom]

well..if through the first Adam..mortality of our soul came........through the last Adam,quickening spirit.....

   immortality to our soul was given....for that which is mortal..MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY.........

   that which  is corruptible..must put on incorruption

Sheila, I think we will be immortalized in spiritual bodies not soulish bodies just the same way Christ was. So it is not our souls that are immortal. Most of us may die before we are immortalized because living souls die. I think we are said to be souls and also to have souls, but either way we are mortal not immortal, not yet anyway, because we have not been changed to spiritual bodies. That will happen for believers when Christ meets us in the air and for unbelievers at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished.

"There are bodies celestial as well as bodies terrestrial. But a different glory, indeed, is that of the celestial, yet a different that of the terrestrial, another glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars, for star is excelling star in glory. Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is roused in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is roused in glory. It is sown in infirmity; it is roused in power. It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:" the last Adam a vivifying Spirit. But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual. The first man was out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven. Such as the soilish one is, such are those also who are soilish, and such as the Celestial One, such are those also who are celestials. And according as we wear the image of the soilish, we should be wearing the image also of the Celestial. Now this I am averring, brethren, that flesh and blood is not able to enjoy an allotment in the kingdom of God, neither is corruption enjoying the allotment of incorruption. Lo! a secret to you am I telling! We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we all shall be changed, in an instant, in the twinkle of an eye, at the last trump. For He will be trumpeting, and the dead will be roused incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. Now, whenever this corruptible should be putting on incorruption and this mortal should be putting on immortality, then shall come to pass the word which is written, Swallowed up was Death by Victory. Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting? " (1 Corinthians 15:40-55)

"40 There is no direct statement here that our bodies will be changed to celestial bodies, in accord with the later revelation of Ephesians, but such an inference would be in point. Even among the celestials there will be degrees of glory. Our Lord Himself has a body which excelled the noonday in its effulgence. Ours will be transfigured to conform to His (Phil.3:21).

42 In death the body disintegrates and returns to the soil whence it came. This loathsome process is reversed in resurrection. Disease and weakness accompany its dissolution, but power and glory will be the portion of all who are Christ's when He comes.

44 Our present bodies respond to the soul, or senses. They seek for physical comfort and satisfaction and pleasure. They do not respond to spiritual things. The soul is not a distinct entity. It is the effect of the combination of body and spirit. Adam was made of the soil. When the breath of life was breathed into him he became a living soul. He could feel, see, hear, smell. He became conscious. Such is the body which we have now. We are dominated by our senses. In the resurrection our bodies will respond to our spirit. Physical sensations will give place to spiritual perception.

47 The soil is the upper, oxidized crust of the earth from which Adam was formed and from which mankind derives its sustenance. It is the soil which sustains the plants and animals which provide us with food. Below the soil is the sphere of sulfation, which destroys life. As men are constituted now, they cannot exist apart from the soil of the earth. If we should be raised with bodies such as we now possess, we could not partake of a celestial allotment, for we would die from the lack of such food as our bodies can assimilate.

50 The soul (not the life) of the flesh is in the blood (Lev.17:11). The Lord has no blood in His resurrection body (Lu.24:39) .

51 This is a secret. It had not been told before. It lies in the one word change. It leads us one step nearer the celestial destiny revealed in the epistle to the Ephesians. Soilish as our bodies are, they need to be radically changed before they can endure a life celestial. This change will come in an instant when the Lord descends from heaven with the trumpet of God (1Thes.4:16). As the last note sounds we who are alive, who are mortal, as well as those who repose, who have gone to corruption, shall be changed. What a glorious prospect! Our bodies shall be like His—not as it was in His weakness before He was roused, not even as it was before His ascension, marvelous as that was, but as it was when Saul met Him and was blinded by the brightness of His presence. He will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to His body glorious (Phil.3:21).

55 What a victory that will be! Now death is operating in our bodies at all times, and eventually succeeds in dragging us down to the grave. Then we shall not only be restored to life, but enjoy incorruption and deathlessness, and a body so changed and glorified that it corresponds to the one which befits the Head of the universe. Yet the enjoyment and appreciation of the glory will depend on our previous humiliation.

[Tom]

I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.

[rosered]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

And ABSOLUTE Truth :dsunny:

i, personally have asked the question, where in the Bible was man given a soul(a soul is a breathing creature H5315)?

  Yes   blasted       the nostrils     to snort with anger lol    gen 2 7 And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

   639  aph: a nostril, nose, face, anger
Original Word: אַף
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: aph
Phonetic Spelling: (af)
Short Definition: anger
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from anaph
Definition
a nostril, nose, face, anger
NASB Translation
anger (205), angry (2), angry* (5), before (2), breath (1), countenance (1), double (1), face (15), faces (4), forbearance* (1), ground (1), nose (10), noses (1), nostril (1), nostrils (13), quick-tempered* (1), snout (1), wrath (8), wrath with his anger (1).

I see major differences between   ADAM/  mankind in Gen 1 and Gen 2     :Chinscratch:

GEN 1 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

[rosered]

I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.

:thumbsup:        Oh Yes ,   Bro Tom..... lol   :HeartThrob:
I am serious
  but    everyone's faith is precious    and would never ever  dispute over such things
I love ya Bro Laz!!!    :winkgrin:

[rosered]

Sometimes that comment makes me wonder what having a Life consists of...oh, yes, breathing mostly.

  yes,  breathing with     nostrils flared    ha ha !    for I have been found at times   ! :laughing7:

[micah7:9]

"I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation..."
:thumbsup:

11 for the soul of the flesh,
it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make
a propitiatory shelter− over your souls on the altar; for the blood,
because of the soul, it´ makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore
I say to the sons of Israel: Not soul at all of you shall eat blood;

i personally think the Greeks messed up the soul understanding. The Greeks were "thinkers" and i believe they polluted simple understanding, and translators were "thinkers" and the "thinking" went into translations. Just my opinion.

[Tom]

It's been mentioned, and I agree. This link provides a good explanation of the word "soul" that I think will clear up the confusion about it.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/WhatIsTheSoul.html

[marie glen]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

AHA!!  You are very right!! :gsmile: :banana:

[marie glen]

i personally think the Greeks messed up the soul understanding. The Greeks were "thinkers" and i believe they polluted simple understanding, and translators were "thinkers" and the "thinking" went into translations. Just my opinion.

I think humans can think a little altogether too much! YHWH save us from human reasoning.. :laughing7:

"thy Word is Truth"

[marie glen]

I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.

haha! maybe.. or that is.. speak for yourself! (just kidding, mostly..) God bless!

[marie glen]

I don't know if anyone brought this up or not.. but isn't there references where animals were also called "souls"..?

:Chinscratch: hmmm, I suppose I should try to find that..

[Tom]

I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.

:thumbsup:        Oh Yes ,   Bro Tom..... lol   :HeartThrob:
I am serious
  but    everyone's faith is precious    and would never ever  dispute over such things
I love ya Bro Laz!!!    :winkgrin:

My comment wasn't directed at you, dear Rose. I was just making a joke about folks who may think we're here because we have nothing else going on. I almost said some folks might think we got no soul either. I was thinking about watching some crazy Pentecostal folks "dancing" in the spirit on YouTube the other day. I've been to those kind of worship services. That's some funny stuff.

[rosered]

I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.

:thumbsup:        Oh Yes ,   Bro Tom..... lol   :HeartThrob:
I am serious
  but    everyone's faith is precious    and would never ever  dispute over such things
I love ya Bro Laz!!!    :winkgrin:

My comment wasn't directed at you, dear Rose. I was just making a joke about folks who may think we're here because we have nothing else going on. I almost said some folks might think we got no soul either. I was thinking about watching some crazy Pentecostal folks "dancing" in the spirit on YouTube the other day. I've been to those kind of worship services. That's some funny stuff.

  Me too   Bro T     :LH: God bless em      !!
I was yanked up so fast out of the pew and   pushed to their altar    ,   I am sure  the look on my face  was like a  cat  with a long tail    in a room full of rocking chairs  :laughing7:   
  I was happy for them ,, and dont think they were faking it ,    but I would not fake that    act   for nothing  and it did not happen to me   , so   there   you have it ,

my Pentecostal experience   was a bust  :sigh:

[rosered]

I don't know if anyone brought this up or not.. but isn't there references where animals were also called "souls"..?

:Chinscratch: hmmm, I suppose I should try to find that..

  Yes sis   Marie ,,,  like beasts     , I believe on the fourth day    they were created as  man was also

   and having the same breath   in them  Ecc  3     The wisdom of Solomon   was     of the earth and His was a good one  but the greater wisdom and witness in my opinion is Jesus  Christ   
  I know I am so big on ''Jesus Christ''   , some could call me a Jesus freak , and you know that would NOT hurt  my feelings a bit !!

Love you sis!!
  :girlheart:

[Tom]

I don't know if anyone brought this up or not.. but isn't there references where animals were also called "souls"..?

:Chinscratch: hmmm, I suppose I should try to find that..

GEN 1:20 And saying is the Elohim,  "Roam shall the water with the roaming, living soul, and the flyer shall fly over the earth on the face of the atmosphere of the heavens."  And coming is it to be so.
GEN 1:21 And creating is the Elohim great monsters and every living moving soul, with which the water roams, for their from-kind, and every winged flyer for its from-kind. And seeing is the Elohim that it is good.
GEN 1:22 And blessing them is the Elohim, saying,  "Be fruitful and increase and fill the water of the seas. And the flyer is to be increasing in the earth."
GEN 1:23 And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, the fifth day.
GEN 1:24 And saying is the Elohim,  "Bring forth shall the earth the living soul for its from-kind, beast and moving animal and land life for its from-kind."  And coming is it to be so.
GEN 1:25 And making is the Elohim, the land life for its from-kind, and the beast for its from-kind, and every moving animal of the ground for its from-kind. And seeing is the Elohim that it is good.
GEN 1:26 And saying is the Elohim,  "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land."
GEN 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.
GEN 1:28 And blessing them is the Elohim. And saying to them is the Elohim,  "Be fruitful and increase and fill the earth, and subdue it. And sway over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all the earth, and over all life moving on the land."
GEN 1:29 And saying is the Elohim,  "Behold, I give to you all herbage seeding seed, which is on the surface of the entire earth, and every tree which has in it the fruit of a tree seeding seed. For you it is coming to be for food.
GEN 1:30 And for all land life, and for every flyer of the heavens, and for every moving animal on the land, which has in it a living soul, all green herbage is for food. And coming is it to be so.

[GraceUponGrace]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

I agree that we are a soul and do not "have" a soul but, I think that way of describing us oversimplifies things.

We are also a spirit and body.

It's a very difficult concept for us to grasp fully but, the easiest way for me to think of it is according to God's example of the OT temple. Since, we are God's temple; we also must have an outer court, inner court and Holy of Holiest (body/soul/spirit.)

Since we are made in the likeness of God, this helps me stay grounded in my concept of God represented as having a 3-fold nature (what many call the trinity). Unlike our 3-fold nature, however; His is, always has been and always will be perfectly united.

[eaglesway]

If we look at the scriptural image of wheels within wheels, I see personally the integration of the spirit soul and body.

In the center of the wheels is the heart, which IMO does not get enough attention in the topic of man's makeup.

When God creates a person, all of the aspects of that person are conjoined and crowned in the heart.

"Guard carefully your heart, for from it flow the issues of life".(prov)

The heart is the "innermost being" of a human, the jewel at the core of each being. If we worry about the soul, and what happens to it at death, I realize that my heart is thge prize for which my spirit, soul and body are renewed in the new creation in Christ.

"A broken and a contrite heart, O God, you will never reject."

This is the goal of all God's dealings with us as children, and as beings. It is the rock from which water gushes out when smitten by the word of God. God's discipline in our lives, as the rod of Moses represents in his striking of the rock- is our sanctification and holiness, as a humble heart emerges from the soul and spirit like a grain of wheat separated from the chaff.

"Today, if you hear His voice harden not your hearts as they did in the wilderness and saw my works 40 years."

I have always like Cardinal's tagline, "I would rather teach 20 men to pray than 1000 to preach."

Likewise, I would rather have  20 humble hearts, than a thousand knowledgeable minds.

What we know about the soul cannot save our souls, but a humble heart SURELY CAN.

Ps 51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

As we rerad the progression in the psalm, we see that a humble heart leads to acceptable offerings(pleasing service Rom 12:1-3) and restoration of the walls(protection through our inner man being strengthened by the Holy Spirit Eph 3:16 and clothed with the full armor of God Eph 6:10-13)

I believe the "walls" represent the body and soul, which are torn down when we are not under the covering that automaticly shields those who are of a broken and a contrite heart.

Whether or not we are a soul or have a soul or whether or not the soul is innately immortal or not- these questions may be debated or discussed and rightly so with great interest, but if God has the heart- the rest just follows along :o)

[micah7:9]

You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.

I agree that we are a soul and do not "have" a soul but, I think that way of describing us oversimplifies things.

We are also a spirit and body.

It's a very difficult concept for us to grasp fully but, the easiest way for me to think of it is according to God's example of the OT temple. Since, we are God's temple; we also must have an outer court, inner court and Holy of Holiest (body/soul/spirit.)

Since we are made in the likeness of God, this helps me stay grounded in my concept of God represented as having a 3-fold nature (what many call the trinity). Unlike our 3-fold nature, however; His is, always has been and always will be perfectly united.

For me personally(imo) this kind of thought is a trinity thinking and I no longer abide to it.

[RaiderGonzo]

"I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation..."
:thumbsup:

11 for the soul of the flesh,
it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make
a propitiatory shelter− over your souls on the altar; for the blood,
because of the soul, it´ makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore
I say to the sons of Israel: Not soul at all of you shall eat blood;

i personally think the Greeks messed up the soul understanding. The Greeks were "thinkers" and i believe they polluted simple understanding, and translators were "thinkers" and the "thinking" went into translations. Just my opinion.

11 For the 'life' of the flesh is in the blood..  :Peace2: