Just wanted to know what others on here believe and why
This is basically the main foundation, that the doctrine of hell is based upon (the immortality of the soul)
If we have an immortal soul, why would there need to be a resurrection from the dead??
http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_do_you_have_an_immortal_soul.htm
QuoteGenesis 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die".
This is similar to saying, "You have an immortal soul". The same lie has been universally believed throughout the history of humanity. It is believed that when a person dies, his soul continues to live on and he remains conscious in the same way as before his physical death. This is illogical and confusing as it raises the question 'How can a person be conscious without a physical or spiritual body?'
Taken from here
http://www.godoftheages.com/site/1351515/page/686554
Quote from: Shadow on December 03, 2008, 11:35:30 AM
Just wanted to know what others on here believe and why
This is basically the main foundation, that the doctrine of hell is based upon (the immortality of the soul)
If we have an immortal soul, why would there need to be a resurrection from the dead??
http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_do_you_have_an_immortal_soul.htm
QuoteGenesis 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die".
This is similar to saying, "You have an immortal soul". The same lie has been universally believed throughout the history of humanity. It is believed that when a person dies, his soul continues to live on and he remains conscious in the same way as before his physical death. This is illogical and confusing as it raises the question 'How can a person be conscious without a physical or spiritual body?'
Taken from here
http://www.godoftheages.com/site/1351515/page/686554
The "why" is because thats how God does it. And even if we cannot answer the question why it is essentially irrevalent.
It is a gift that God brings to us, however he does it.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
1C 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1C 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1C 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Hi Shadow ,
you and Paul have made some great points I have not even considered before
I remember looking at Rev here Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
I always wondered why it was under the altar ? them souls slain yet speak ? like Abel HIS BLOOD still speaks ?
I now pay attention to the wording and how it is worded more than ever
those clues make me search deeper into the Word of God now ..
People are full of confusion on the subjects of spirit, soul, and body, but yes, for all practical intents and purposes the spirits and souls of people and animals have perpetual existance even if you virtually annihilate their bodies. God gave us these physical bodies to be His Temple and He doesn't believe in just bulldozing 'em and moving on and never looking back. As people tend to use 3% of their mental capacity in this life, people are likewise using about 3% of their physical capacity in this life or less. Looking at anyone that spends two hours in the gym every single day and burns out their vegetable juicer's motor every year or so and you'll readily notice a difference between them and most folks. Our bodies give us extra demensions of existance that God doesn't intend for us to lose permanently. The creation must enter into the liberties of the children of God. The whole creation groans for this immortality, according to Romans 8.
Paul longed to depart and be with Christ in Philippians 1, indicating he believed he would be with Christ the moment that he died. 2Corinthians 5 says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, yet there's an indication of nudity in that if we don't have our bodies. Lots of other comments that I've made before on this subject to where I don't want to get overly repetitive, but how would there be a sting of death that's only removed by the resurrection if death were the obliteration of consciousness or the total turning off (knocking out) of the lights?
Some mishandle Ecclesiastes 9 about the dead knowing nothing, but that's an anthropomorphism on the part of Solomon in that Solomon didn't know what became of the dead after they died. He knew nothing of the dead, so the dead apparently knew nothing in his view. Probably drunk when he wrote that. Otherwise, he would have known that he was projecting and wouldn't have said it. Also, the context of Ecclesiastes 9 is him having tried everything under the sun, and I see an implication of experiments with the occult that he couldn't get into detail about to protect his family's honor in Israel and 'cause the Law's penalty for that is death.
Hi Shadow,
Since immortality is yet future, it is a forgone conclusion that as of yet we do not have immortality and hence no immortal soul. It is only after we put on immortality that we will be immortal. (see 1 Cor.15:53,54).
One can destroy one's soul but in the resurrection get their soul (feelings, sensations, enjoyment of the fruits of the kingdom) back. (see Matt.10:39)
Man did not posess an immortal soul from the beginning of his creation.
God formed man of the soil of the earth and once He breathed into him the breath of life he became a living soul (not immortal soul). So soul, which is the feelings and senses, is the result of body and spirit coming together. Take away the spirit and soul ceases. Kill the body and the soul ceases.
The immortality of the soul is just a bunch of paganism.
QuoteSome mishandle Ecclesiastes 9 about the dead knowing nothing
there are many more verses who say the dead rest, if they wouldn´t, why a resurection, why future judgement?
i dont believe human have an immortal soul - its greek philosophy, if they had, what happened with people who died before Jesus was resurected? did they all went to a bad place in the netherworld? or did the good people go to a well place - if so, why should Jesus have died?
why should have mortal creatures immortal souls?
Clues from scripture and 'valid' NDE accounts lead me to believe that there is a part of us (whether soul, spirit, or both) that is for all practical purposes 'immortal'.
Now, that does not mean I believe that we are inherently immortal, it means that it is an immortality that is bestowed by the breath of God, an extension of the existence of God, if you will. If it weren't for God, none of us would exist at all, in any form. In him we live and move and have our being. :2c:
Personally I think both body and soul are mortal. Surely they can be made otherwise but aren't right now.
The body is just a package that doesn't really live. Life and soul are from the same root word.
The spirit is different:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The spirit goes back to God. Therefore I think it isn't dead.
I'm not even sure the soul will be resurrected. It depends on what purpose the soul has in the body-soul-spirit combo.
The body will be resurrected but that can be argued against too. Don't get me wrong it is stated clearly in the Bible it will be resurrected but it's so different that it can be argued that it a resurrected old body or a perfected new design.
Perhaps a design that doesn't need a soul=life of its own because it constantly 'maintained' by God Himself?
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 09, 2008, 10:50:08 PM
Personally I think both body and soul are mortal. Surely they can be made otherwise but aren't right now.
The body is just a package that doesn't really live. Life and soul are from the same root word.
The spirit is different:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The spirit goes back to God. Therefore I think it isn't dead.
I'm not even sure the soul will be resurrected. It depends on what purpose the soul has in the body-soul-spirit combo.
The body will be resurrected but that can be argued against too. Don't get me wrong it is stated clearly in the Bible it will be resurrected but it's so different that it can be argued that it a resurrected old body or a perfected new design.
Perhaps a design that doesn't need a soul=life of its own because it constantly 'maintained' by God Himself?
1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hummz,
Isn't that verse about people that are alive just before/during Jesus?
Barnes:
QuoteThe apostle does not intimate here that either the body or the vital principle will be admitted to heaven, or will be found in a future state of being, whatever may be the truth on that subject. The prayer is, that they might be entirely holy, and be kept from transgression, until the Lord Jesus should come; that is, until he should come either to remove them by death, or to wind up the affairs of this lower world;
For me it reads: Pray to stay totally free of sin until Jesus or death comes.
Quote from: Doc on December 09, 2008, 10:35:03 PM
Clues from scripture and 'valid' NDE accounts lead me to believe that there is a part of us (whether soul, spirit, or both) that is for all practical purposes 'immortal'.
Now, that does not mean I believe that we are inherently immortal, it means that it is an immortality that is bestowed by the breath of God, an extension of the existence of God, if you will. If it weren't for God, none of us would exist at all, in any form. In him we live and move and have our being. :2c:
Ummm, what's up Doc?
Sorry to disagree but I think near death experiences are mostly manufactured by the brain. Quite a few go to "hell" and we know those are bogus experiences.
One university did a study on them. If you are born into a nice, well lit room, when you die your brain goes back to that experience and the brain thinks it is heaven. You go down a long dark cave and emerge into wonderful light. That's the birthing process. Some born in a room with fire raging in the fireplace later, when near death think they are experiencing hell.
Anyway, NDE's are surely extra biblical and not a thing to put our faith into.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 10, 2008, 08:07:21 AM
Hummz,
Isn't that verse about people that are alive just before/during Jesus?
Barnes:
QuoteThe apostle does not intimate here that either the body or the vital principle will be admitted to heaven, or will be found in a future state of being, whatever may be the truth on that subject. The prayer is, that they might be entirely holy, and be kept from transgression, until the Lord Jesus should come; that is, until he should come either to remove them by death, or to wind up the affairs of this lower world;
For me it reads: Pray to stay totally free of sin until Jesus or death comes.
WW my only point was to show that sanctification was not just for the spirit and body but also for the soul, because you said you were not sure about the soul.
Quote from: Tony N on December 10, 2008, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: Doc on December 09, 2008, 10:35:03 PM
Clues from scripture and 'valid' NDE accounts lead me to believe that there is a part of us (whether soul, spirit, or both) that is for all practical purposes 'immortal'.
Now, that does not mean I believe that we are inherently immortal, it means that it is an immortality that is bestowed by the breath of God, an extension of the existence of God, if you will. If it weren't for God, none of us would exist at all, in any form. In him we live and move and have our being. :2c:
Ummm, what's up Doc?
Sorry to disagree but I think near death experiences are mostly manufactured by the brain. Quite a few go to "hell" and we know those are bogus experiences.
One university did a study on them. If you are born into a nice, well lit room, when you die your brain goes back to that experience and the brain thinks it is heaven. You go down a long dark cave and emerge into wonderful light. That's the birthing process. Some born in a room with fire raging in the fireplace later, when near death think they are experiencing hell.
Anyway, NDE's are surely extra biblical and not a thing to put our faith into.
Tony; there's too much evidence against the notion to suggest that NDE's are solely manufactured by the brain. (i.e., in verified cases of brain-death).
For example; NDE's of people born blind, where during their NDE they are able to actually see identifiable, verifiable things (verified by others present, not going through the NDE) going on in the physical realm when they leave their body that would be impossible for them to know otherwise. Remember that people blind from birth would have no prior visual frame of reference with which to describe the things seen, as accurately as they do.
Certain aspects of NDE's (such as "hell" experiences, perhaps) may well be heavily influenced by what a person believes beforehand, but in many instances, their NDE experience goes against what they formerly believed. They all come back changed people, so something very real is happening, even if we can't define it well based on what we "know".
Now, I believe in scriptural authority; but the scripture is but a shadow of the reality pointed to by scripture. "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life".
Quote from: Doc on December 10, 2008, 09:59:56 PM
Quote from: Tony N on December 10, 2008, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: Doc on December 09, 2008, 10:35:03 PM
Clues from scripture and 'valid' NDE accounts lead me to believe that there is a part of us (whether soul, spirit, or both) that is for all practical purposes 'immortal'.
Now, that does not mean I believe that we are inherently immortal, it means that it is an immortality that is bestowed by the breath of God, an extension of the existence of God, if you will. If it weren't for God, none of us would exist at all, in any form. In him we live and move and have our being. :2c:
Ummm, what's up Doc?
Sorry to disagree but I think near death experiences are mostly manufactured by the brain. Quite a few go to "hell" and we know those are bogus experiences.
One university did a study on them. If you are born into a nice, well lit room, when you die your brain goes back to that experience and the brain thinks it is heaven. You go down a long dark cave and emerge into wonderful light. That's the birthing process. Some born in a room with fire raging in the fireplace later, when near death think they are experiencing hell.
Anyway, NDE's are surely extra biblical and not a thing to put our faith into.
Tony; there's too much evidence against the notion to suggest that NDE's are solely manufactured by the brain. (i.e., in verified cases of brain-death).
For example; NDE's of people born blind, where during their NDE they are able to actually see identifiable, verifiable things (verified by others present, not going through the NDE) going on in the physical realm when they leave their body that would be impossible for them to know otherwise. Remember that people blind from birth would have no prior visual frame of reference with which to describe the things seen, as accurately as they do.
Certain aspects of NDE's (such as "hell" experiences, perhaps) may well be heavily influenced by what a person believes beforehand, but in many instances, their NDE experience goes against what they formerly believed. They all come back changed people, so something very real is happening, even if we can't define it well based on what we "know".
Now, I believe in scriptural authority; but the scripture is but a shadow of the reality pointed to by scripture. "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life".
Hi Doc,
What gift from God it would be for him to give that knowledge to a blind person through an event like that.
Or thats how I see it anyway.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on December 11, 2008, 01:01:06 AM
Quote from: Doc on December 10, 2008, 09:59:56 PM
Quote from: Tony N on December 10, 2008, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: Doc on December 09, 2008, 10:35:03 PM
Clues from scripture and 'valid' NDE accounts lead me to believe that there is a part of us (whether soul, spirit, or both) that is for all practical purposes 'immortal'.
Now, that does not mean I believe that we are inherently immortal, it means that it is an immortality that is bestowed by the breath of God, an extension of the existence of God, if you will. If it weren't for God, none of us would exist at all, in any form. In him we live and move and have our being. :2c:
Ummm, what's up Doc?
Sorry to disagree but I think near death experiences are mostly manufactured by the brain. Quite a few go to "hell" and we know those are bogus experiences.
One university did a study on them. If you are born into a nice, well lit room, when you die your brain goes back to that experience and the brain thinks it is heaven. You go down a long dark cave and emerge into wonderful light. That's the birthing process. Some born in a room with fire raging in the fireplace later, when near death think they are experiencing hell.
Anyway, NDE's are surely extra biblical and not a thing to put our faith into.
Tony; there's too much evidence against the notion to suggest that NDE's are solely manufactured by the brain. (i.e., in verified cases of brain-death).
For example; NDE's of people born blind, where during their NDE they are able to actually see identifiable, verifiable things (verified by others present, not going through the NDE) going on in the physical realm when they leave their body that would be impossible for them to know otherwise. Remember that people blind from birth would have no prior visual frame of reference with which to describe the things seen, as accurately as they do.
Certain aspects of NDE's (such as "hell" experiences, perhaps) may well be heavily influenced by what a person believes beforehand, but in many instances, their NDE experience goes against what they formerly believed. They all come back changed people, so something very real is happening, even if we can't define it well based on what we "know".
Now, I believe in scriptural authority; but the scripture is but a shadow of the reality pointed to by scripture. "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life".
Hi Doc,
What gift from God it would be for him to give that knowledge to a blind person through an event like that.
Or thats how I see it anyway.
Certainly; but the problem is when they "come back", they're blind again. Most people who have NDE's don't want to return anyway, but those freshly liberated from a lifetime of blindness aren't particularly keen to return to it. It cuts both ways, I guess.
This site has renewed my interest to understand what God says about the soul again...I think that A.E. Knoch has some good understanding on the soul but, am not convinced either way right now.
http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Knoch/WhatIsTheSoul.htm
Is the soul eternal or is it meant to obtain eternal life?
Quote from: GraceUponGrace on October 07, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
This site has renewed my interest to understand what God says about the soul again...I think that A.E. Knoch has some good understanding on the soul but, am not convinced either way right now.
http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Knoch/WhatIsTheSoul.htm
Is the soul eternal or is it meant to obtain eternal life?
Scripture says nothing of "eternal" life. Believers are promised "eonian" life in Christ. The word "eternal" is an inaccurate translation of the Greek "aionion" which is the adjective of "aion," a period of time, and the adjective of a period of time is not infinite time. See the link below which shows the "eonian life" promised to believers.
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
Immortality of the soul is a lie that denies the resurrection of Christ because, if he didn't really die, he didn't really come back to life.
Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.
"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying.'"(Genesis 3:4)
"The soul of the flesh, it is in the blood." (Leviticus 17:11)
"Flesh and blood is not able to enjoy an allotment in the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 15:50)
The soul is the sensation or conscious experience resulting from the combination of an organic body with breath or spirit.
"And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)
Death is a return.
"I know that You are turning me back to death, To that house appointed for all the living." (Job 30:23)
The body returns to the soil.
"In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till you return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning." (Genesis 3:19)
The spirit, the imperceptible power of life, returns to God.
"And the soil returns to the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)
The soul returns to the "unseen."
"The wicked shall return to the unseen, All the nations, forgetful of Elohim." (Psalms 9:17)
"For Thou wilt not be forsaking my soul in the unseen, Nor wilt Thou be giving Thy Benign One to be acquainted with decay." (Acts 2:27)
"Perceiving this before, he speaks concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither forsaken in the unseen, nor was His flesh acquainted with decay." (Acts 2:31)
Scripture says the soul dies.
"The soul that is sinning--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:4)
"The soul that does sin--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:20)
Christ alone has immortality.
"He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15,16)
The dead are not conscious of anything.
"For the living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever" (Ecclesiastes 9:5)
The dead are reposing.
"Now we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are reposing, lest you may sorrow according as the rest, also, who have no expectation. For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him. For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose, for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first. Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord. So that, console one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
Believe the word of God not church theology. The human is a living soul who dies, but we will all eventually be resurrected and vivified, given life without death, in different classes. Christ was the firstfruit; believers when he meets us in the air; and unbelievers at the consummation of the eons.
"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)
Quote from: Tom on October 07, 2014, 03:40:58 PM
Immortality of the soul is a lie that denies the resurrection of Christ because, if he didn't really die, he didn't really come back to life.
I never thought of it that way.. thanks! I also didn't realize Plato was a strong supporter of it.. Or if I did, I forgot..
As the first lie it is lodged so deeply in the psyche of mankind! (imo)
Hi I understand a bit better than in 2008 lol , Just an opinion here , but its what Jesus says that makes me question everything ! and repent ,
when you repent you rethink things over , and we do this often
what is your soul but your life , right here and right now ?
and Jesus asks us what would you give for your life ? what would you exchange for it ? what good is it to gain the world and loose your life /soul
I see Jesus in the wilderness right after the baptism sent by the Holy Spirit to be tempted of satan
satan offered him this whole world if you bow to the adversary
But I believe the whole point in in this " when you die to self" Old Adam" on the cross as Jesus example to take up your cross and follow me
He was the first to die as a HOLY ONE to give up His soul /Life as in NOW for enemies /sinners without crying for vengeance and this leads to immortality Jesus says Himself dead alive evermore Rev 1 ;18
But Forgive them Father for they know not what they do
we see the same in Stephen when heaven opened for him when he also cried for mercy on the enemies /sinners and not holding them to sin which is death
the wages of sin is death When we read I hold the keys of sheol and the death / hades
He is saying I AM THE LORD OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD !!
New American Standard Bible
and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
King James Bible
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
and the Living One. I was dead, but look--I am alive forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and Hades.
International Standard Version
the living one. I was dead—but look!—I am alive forever and ever! I have the keys of Death and Hades.
NET Bible
and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive--forever and ever--and I hold the keys of death and of Hades!
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I am he who lived and died, and behold, I am alive to the eternity of eternities, amen, and I have the key of Death and of Sheol.
Young's Literal Translation
and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
I agree with you TOM !! as well in these very simple understanding I have now the exchange being for me its our lives now , not mortal are His for HIS LIFE whom is taken on immortality
death cannot hold HIM or His own
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. and the gates of hell shall not prevail against this foundation in TRUTH /rock solid the Father planted this seed in the heart of peter to confess Jesus is the Son of God !!! Matt 16
17And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
Verse 19 is profoundly POWERFUL
Jesus set free by forgiving , we seen Stephen set free by forgiving those bound on earth by sin
in this very sense you are judging and being judged !!!!!
UR is very forgiving and find so many times more is given of God by His grace gifts of Holy Spirit & [Jesus Christ]
and holders of eternal tormentors doctrines are still bound such as those still wanting vengeance in the spilling of innocent blood ?
Vengeance is the LORDS AND HE REPAYS TO BABYLON !! They are under the altar still under the power of Babylon spiritual warfare not earthly ..
I wonder how much more the tribulation they endure before they are washing in the blood of Jesus Christ before they get the white robes ??? in Rev 6 Rev 6 its the seals , the seals opening , to die in the Lord is gain , blessed in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints HOLY ONES
Rev 7 14I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
I see this as an ongoing process since the Lord JESUS CHRIST " become the Lord of the dead and living " , but that is only my opinion at this time and could change :icon_flower:
Tom, I am inclined to agree with your interpretation of the Scriptures, regarding the soul of man. Thanks for all of the verses, there is a lot of "meat to chew on" there! :thumbsup:
well..if through the first Adam..mortality of our soul came........through the last Adam,quickening spirit.....
immortality to our soul was given....for that which is mortal..MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY.........
that which is corruptible..must put on incorruption
Tom you nailed it :dsunny: There aint no immortal soul. :thumbsup:
Tom, I agree :thumbsup:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 07, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
Tom you nailed it :dsunny: There aint no immortal soul. :thumbsup:
EXCEPT JESUS CHRIST RIGHT ???
PUT ON IMMORTALITY Where O Death is Your Victory?
...52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we will be changed.
53For this perishable must put on the imperishable,
and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable,
a
and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. Quotewell..if through the first Adam..mortality of our soul came........through the last Adam,quickening spirit.....
immortality to our soul was given....for that which is mortal..MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY.........
that which is corruptible..must put on incorruption
Yes , Spiritually speaking I do believe the LIFE OF CHRIST IS IMMORTAL :HeartThrob:
mere men do not have an immortality so I DO AGREE WITH THAT !! :iagree:
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
And ABSOLUTE Truth :dsunny:
i, personally have asked the question, where in the Bible was man given a soul(a soul is a breathing creature H5315)?
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
lOL LAZ !!
I do see soul and Life as interchangeable
so in saying you do not
have a LIFE -you are a LIFE
Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all
souls are mine; as the
soul of the father, so also the
soul of the son is mine: the
soul that sins, it shall die.
4 Behold, all
lives are mine; as the
life of the father, so also the
life of the son is mine: the
life that sins it shall die.
for me its not that big of a difference or deal ? whats missing ?
Quote from: rosered on October 07, 2014, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
lOL LAZ !!
I do see soul and Life as interchangeable
so in saying you do not have a LIFE -you are a LIFE
Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
4 Behold, all lives are mine; as the life of the father, so also the life of the son is mine: the life that sins it shall die.
for me its not that big of a difference or deal ? whats missing ?
So, how does that apply when someone tells you to "GET A LIFE!"?
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:18:03 PM
Quote from: rosered on October 07, 2014, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
lOL LAZ !!
I do see soul and Life as interchangeable
so in saying you do not have a LIFE -you are a LIFE
Ezekiel 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
4 Behold, all lives are mine; as the life of the father, so also the life of the son is mine: the life that sins it shall die.
for me its not that big of a difference or deal ? whats missing ?
So, how does that apply when someone tells you to "GET A LIFE!"?
Ha! yes , I have a life lol or maybe not ?? :eek:
Sometimes that comment makes me wonder what having a Life consists of...oh, yes, breathing mostly.
Quote from: sheila on October 07, 2014, 05:17:57 PM
well..if through the first Adam..mortality of our soul came........through the last Adam,quickening spirit.....
immortality to our soul was given....for that which is mortal..MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY.........
that which is corruptible..must put on incorruption
Sheila, I think we will be immortalized in spiritual bodies not soulish bodies just the same way Christ was. So it is not our souls that are immortal. Most of us may die before we are immortalized because living souls die. I think we are said to be souls and also to have souls, but either way we are mortal not immortal, not yet anyway, because we have not been changed to spiritual bodies. That will happen for believers when Christ meets us in the air and for unbelievers at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished.
"There are bodies celestial as well as bodies terrestrial. But a different glory, indeed, is that of the celestial, yet a different that of the terrestrial, another glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars, for star is excelling star in glory. Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is roused in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is roused in glory. It is sown in infirmity; it is roused in power. It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:" the last Adam a vivifying Spirit. But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual. The first man was out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven. Such as the soilish one is, such are those also who are soilish, and such as the Celestial One, such are those also who are celestials. And according as we wear the image of the soilish, we should be wearing the image also of the Celestial. Now this I am averring, brethren, that flesh and blood is not able to enjoy an allotment in the kingdom of God, neither is corruption enjoying the allotment of incorruption. Lo! a secret to you am I telling! We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we all shall be changed, in an instant, in the twinkle of an eye, at the last trump. For He will be trumpeting, and the dead will be roused incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. Now, whenever this corruptible should be putting on incorruption and this mortal should be putting on immortality, then shall come to pass the word which is written, Swallowed up was Death by Victory. Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting? " (1 Corinthians 15:40-55)
"40 There is no direct statement here that our bodies will be changed to celestial bodies, in accord with the later revelation of Ephesians, but such an inference would be in point. Even among the celestials there will be degrees of glory. Our Lord Himself has a body which excelled the noonday in its effulgence. Ours will be transfigured to conform to His (Phil.3:21).
42 In death the body disintegrates and returns to the soil whence it came. This loathsome process is reversed in resurrection. Disease and weakness accompany its dissolution, but power and glory will be the portion of all who are Christ's when He comes.
44 Our present bodies respond to the soul, or senses. They seek for physical comfort and satisfaction and pleasure. They do not respond to spiritual things. The soul is not a distinct entity. It is the effect of the combination of body and spirit. Adam was made of the soil. When the breath of life was breathed into him he became a living soul. He could feel, see, hear, smell. He became conscious. Such is the body which we have now. We are dominated by our senses. In the resurrection our bodies will respond to our spirit. Physical sensations will give place to spiritual perception.
47 The soil is the upper, oxidized crust of the earth from which Adam was formed and from which mankind derives its sustenance. It is the soil which sustains the plants and animals which provide us with food. Below the soil is the sphere of sulfation, which destroys life. As men are constituted now, they cannot exist apart from the soil of the earth. If we should be raised with bodies such as we now possess, we could not partake of a celestial allotment, for we would die from the lack of such food as our bodies can assimilate.
50 The soul (not the life) of the flesh is in the blood (Lev.17:11). The Lord has no blood in His resurrection body (Lu.24:39) .
51 This is a secret. It had not been told before. It lies in the one word change. It leads us one step nearer the celestial destiny revealed in the epistle to the Ephesians. Soilish as our bodies are, they need to be radically changed before they can endure a life celestial. This change will come in an instant when the Lord descends from heaven with the trumpet of God (1Thes.4:16). As the last note sounds we who are alive, who are mortal, as well as those who repose, who have gone to corruption, shall be changed. What a glorious prospect! Our bodies shall be like His—not as it was in His weakness before He was roused, not even as it was before His ascension, marvelous as that was, but as it was when Saul met Him and was blinded by the brightness of His presence. He will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to His body glorious (Phil.3:21).
55 What a victory that will be! Now death is operating in our bodies at all times, and eventually succeeds in dragging us down to the grave. Then we shall not only be restored to life, but enjoy incorruption and deathlessness, and a body so changed and glorified that it corresponds to the one which befits the Head of the universe. Yet the enjoyment and appreciation of the glory will depend on our previous humiliation.
I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 07, 2014, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
And ABSOLUTE Truth :dsunny:
i, personally have asked the question, where in the Bible was man given a soul(a soul is a breathing creature H5315)?
Yes blasted the nostrils to snort with anger lol gen 2 7 And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
639 aph:
a nostril, nose, face, angerOriginal Word: אַף
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: aph
Phonetic Spelling: (af)
Short Definition
: angerNAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from anaph
Definition
a nostril, nose, face, anger
NASB Translation
anger (205), angry (2), angry* (5), before (2), breath (1), countenance (1), double (1), face (15), faces (4), forbearance* (1), ground (1), nose (10), noses (1), nostril (1), nostrils (13), quick-tempered* (1), snout (1), wrath (8), wrath with his anger (1).
I see major differences between ADAM/ mankind in Gen 1 and Gen 2 :Chinscratch:
GEN 1 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Quote from: Tom on October 07, 2014, 08:28:35 PM
I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.
:thumbsup: Oh Yes , Bro Tom..... lol :HeartThrob:
I am serious
but everyone's faith is precious and would never ever dispute over such things
I love ya Bro Laz!!! :winkgrin:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:23:43 PM
Sometimes that comment makes me wonder what having a Life consists of...oh, yes, breathing mostly.
yes, breathing with nostrils flared ha ha ! for I have been found at times ! :laughing7:
"I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation..."
:thumbsup:
11 for the soul of the flesh,
it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make
a propitiatory shelter− over your souls on the altar; for the blood,
because of the soul, it´ makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore
I say to the sons of Israel: Not soul at all of you shall eat blood;
i personally think the Greeks messed up the soul understanding. The Greeks were "thinkers" and i believe they polluted simple understanding, and translators were "thinkers" and the "thinking" went into translations. Just my opinion.
It's been mentioned, and I agree. This link provides a good explanation of the word "soul" that I think will clear up the confusion about it.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/WhatIsTheSoul.html
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
AHA!! You are very right!! :gsmile: :banana:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 07, 2014, 08:45:27 PM
i personally think the Greeks messed up the soul understanding. The Greeks were "thinkers" and i believe they polluted simple understanding, and translators were "thinkers" and the "thinking" went into translations. Just my opinion.
I think humans can think a little altogether too much! YHWH save us from human reasoning.. :laughing7:
"thy Word is Truth"
Quote from: Tom on October 07, 2014, 08:28:35 PM
I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.
haha! maybe.. or that is.. speak for yourself! (just kidding, mostly..) God bless!
I don't know if anyone brought this up or not.. but isn't there references where animals were also called "souls"..?
:Chinscratch: hmmm, I suppose I should try to find that..
Quote from: rosered on October 07, 2014, 08:34:21 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 07, 2014, 08:28:35 PM
I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.
:thumbsup: Oh Yes , Bro Tom..... lol :HeartThrob:
I am serious
but everyone's faith is precious and would never ever dispute over such things
I love ya Bro Laz!!! :winkgrin:
My comment wasn't directed at you, dear Rose. I was just making a joke about folks who may think we're here because we have nothing else going on. I almost said some folks might think we got no soul either. I was thinking about watching some crazy Pentecostal folks "dancing" in the spirit on YouTube the other day. I've been to those kind of worship services. That's some funny stuff.
Quote from: Tom on October 07, 2014, 10:15:13 PM
Quote from: rosered on October 07, 2014, 08:34:21 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 07, 2014, 08:28:35 PM
I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation, but, despite what some folks may think, we on the Tentmaker forum do have a life.
:thumbsup: Oh Yes , Bro Tom..... lol :HeartThrob:
I am serious
but everyone's faith is precious and would never ever dispute over such things
I love ya Bro Laz!!! :winkgrin:
My comment wasn't directed at you, dear Rose. I was just making a joke about folks who may think we're here because we have nothing else going on. I almost said some folks might think we got no soul either. I was thinking about watching some crazy Pentecostal folks "dancing" in the spirit on YouTube the other day. I've been to those kind of worship services. That's some funny stuff.
Me too Bro T :LH: God bless em !!
I was yanked up so fast out of the pew and pushed to their altar , I am sure the look on my face was like a cat with a long tail in a room full of rocking chairs :laughing7:
I was happy for them ,, and dont think they were faking it , but I would not fake that act for nothing and it did not happen to me , so there you have it ,
my Pentecostal experience was a bust :sigh:
Quote from: marie glen on October 07, 2014, 09:58:39 PM
I don't know if anyone brought this up or not.. but isn't there references where animals were also called "souls"..?
:Chinscratch: hmmm, I suppose I should try to find that..
Yes sis Marie ,,, like beasts , I believe on the fourth day they were created as man was also
and having the same breath in them Ecc 3 The wisdom of Solomon was of the earth and His was a good one but the greater wisdom and witness in my opinion is Jesus Christ
I know I am so big on ''Jesus Christ'' , some could call me a Jesus freak , and you know that would NOT hurt my feelings a bit !!
Love you sis!!
:girlheart:
Quote from: marie glen on October 07, 2014, 09:58:39 PM
I don't know if anyone brought this up or not.. but isn't there references where animals were also called "souls"..?
:Chinscratch: hmmm, I suppose I should try to find that..
GEN 1:20 And saying is the Elohim, "Roam shall the water with the roaming, living soul, and the flyer shall fly over the earth on the face of the atmosphere of the heavens." And coming is it to be so.
GEN 1:21 And creating is the Elohim great monsters and every living moving soul, with which the water roams, for their from-kind, and every winged flyer for its from-kind. And seeing is the Elohim that it is good.
GEN 1:22 And blessing them is the Elohim, saying, "Be fruitful and increase and fill the water of the seas. And the flyer is to be increasing in the earth."
GEN 1:23 And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, the fifth day.
GEN 1:24 And saying is the Elohim, "Bring forth shall the earth the living soul for its from-kind, beast and moving animal and land life for its from-kind." And coming is it to be so.
GEN 1:25 And making is the Elohim, the land life for its from-kind, and the beast for its from-kind, and every moving animal of the ground for its from-kind. And seeing is the Elohim that it is good.
GEN 1:26 And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land."
GEN 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.
GEN 1:28 And blessing them is the Elohim. And saying to them is the Elohim, "Be fruitful and increase and fill the earth, and subdue it. And sway over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all the earth, and over all life moving on the land."
GEN 1:29 And saying is the Elohim, "Behold, I give to you all herbage seeding seed, which is on the surface of the entire earth, and every tree which has in it the fruit of a tree seeding seed. For you it is coming to be for food.
GEN 1:30 And for all land life, and for every flyer of the heavens, and for every moving animal on the land, which has in it a living soul, all green herbage is for food. And coming is it to be so.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
I agree that we are a soul and do not "have" a soul but, I think that way of describing us oversimplifies things.
We are also a spirit and body.
It's a very difficult concept for us to grasp fully but, the easiest way for me to think of it is according to God's example of the OT temple. Since, we are God's temple; we also must have an outer court, inner court and Holy of Holiest (body/soul/spirit.)
Since we are made in the likeness of God, this helps me stay grounded in my concept of God represented as having a 3-fold nature (what many call the trinity). Unlike our 3-fold nature, however; His is, always has been and always will be perfectly united.
If we look at the scriptural image of wheels within wheels, I see personally the integration of the spirit soul and body.
In the center of the wheels is the heart, which IMO does not get enough attention in the topic of man's makeup.
When God creates a person, all of the aspects of that person are conjoined and crowned in the heart.
"Guard carefully your heart, for from it flow the issues of life".(prov)
The heart is the "innermost being" of a human, the jewel at the core of each being. If we worry about the soul, and what happens to it at death, I realize that my heart is thge prize for which my spirit, soul and body are renewed in the new creation in Christ.
"A broken and a contrite heart, O God, you will never reject."
This is the goal of all God's dealings with us as children, and as beings. It is the rock from which water gushes out when smitten by the word of God. God's discipline in our lives, as the rod of Moses represents in his striking of the rock- is our sanctification and holiness, as a humble heart emerges from the soul and spirit like a grain of wheat separated from the chaff.
"Today, if you hear His voice harden not your hearts as they did in the wilderness and saw my works 40 years."
I have always like Cardinal's tagline, "I would rather teach 20 men to pray than 1000 to preach."
Likewise, I would rather have 20 humble hearts, than a thousand knowledgeable minds.
What we know about the soul cannot save our souls, but a humble heart SURELY CAN.
Ps 51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
As we rerad the progression in the psalm, we see that a humble heart leads to acceptable offerings(pleasing service Rom 12:1-3) and restoration of the walls(protection through our inner man being strengthened by the Holy Spirit Eph 3:16 and clothed with the full armor of God Eph 6:10-13)
I believe the "walls" represent the body and soul, which are torn down when we are not under the covering that automaticly shields those who are of a broken and a contrite heart.
Whether or not we are a soul or have a soul or whether or not the soul is innately immortal or not- these questions may be debated or discussed and rightly so with great interest, but if God has the heart- the rest just follows along :o)
Quote from: GraceUponGrace on October 07, 2014, 11:35:23 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 07, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
You do not HAVE a soul - you ARE a soul.
I agree that we are a soul and do not "have" a soul but, I think that way of describing us oversimplifies things.
We are also a spirit and body.
It's a very difficult concept for us to grasp fully but, the easiest way for me to think of it is according to God's example of the OT temple. Since, we are God's temple; we also must have an outer court, inner court and Holy of Holiest (body/soul/spirit.)
Since we are made in the likeness of God, this helps me stay grounded in my concept of God represented as having a 3-fold nature (what many call the trinity). Unlike our 3-fold nature, however; His is, always has been and always will be perfectly united.
For me personally(imo) this kind of thought is a trinity thinking and I no longer abide to it.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 07, 2014, 08:45:27 PM
"I think there's some confusion between "soul" and "life" due to inaccurate translation..."
:thumbsup:
11 for the soul of the flesh,
it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make
a propitiatory shelter− over your souls on the altar; for the blood,
because of the soul, it´ makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore
I say to the sons of Israel: Not soul at all of you shall eat blood;
i personally think the Greeks messed up the soul understanding. The Greeks were "thinkers" and i believe they polluted simple understanding, and translators were "thinkers" and the "thinking" went into translations. Just my opinion.
11 For the 'life' of the flesh is in the blood.. :Peace2:
QuoteWhether or not we are a soul or have a soul or whether or not the soul is innately immortal or not- these questions may be debated or discussed and rightly so with great interest, but if God has the heart- the rest just follows along :o)
Love the whole post Bro John ,
but this is just precious!! Amen ! :HeartThrob:
Thank God for He knows the hearts and changes hearts towards Him
Psalms 51:10
Create in me
a clean heart, O God, And
renew a steadfast spirit within me.Ezekiel 36:26
"Moreover,
I will give you a new heart and
put a new spirit within you; and
I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
:cloud9:
11 for the soul of the flesh,
it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make
a propitiatory shelter− over your souls on the altar; for the blood,
because of the soul, it´ makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore
I say to the sons of Israel: Not soul at all of you shall eat blood;
New Hearts, New Spirits!
Behold I Make All Things New!
Quote from: eaglesway on October 08, 2014, 03:33:54 AM
New Hearts, New Spirits!
Behold I Make All Things New!
Yes
the stony heart is like a tomb , till the Day star rises in your hearts!!! He is risen to those whom believe and the changes come in Christ by the Spirit of God , making all things new !!
And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ -- this one is not His;
Quote
Whether or not we are a soul or have a soul or whether or not the soul is innately immortal or not- these questions may be debated or discussed and rightly so with great interest, but if God has the heart- the rest just follows along :o)
Now we have the heart which is the mind..and the mind which is the heart..now we have the soul which is the heart/mind. Now a soul is a breathing creature which now God has.... a breathing creature.
Yes, as you say new hearts/minds are given. Why is it when the Bible says the SOUL(person) that sins will die, and are told in Gen. 2 if the first soul eats he shall die.
Don't sound like the soul is immortal....also why the need for
1Co 15:53 for it behoveth this corruptible(perishable) to put on incorruption(unending exsistence), and this mortal to put on immortality(deathlessness);
1Co 15:54 and when this corruptible(perishable) may have put on incorruption(unending exsistence), and this mortal may have put on immortality(deathlessness), then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up--to victory;
If as you say we are given a new heart and a new spirit how does that make us an immortal soul? Dont we have to wait for 1Co 15:51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we--we shall be changed:
Why do we debate the immortality of a soul/person when I believe in my opinion the Bible is clear we do not have or to put it this way a person/human/soul is not immortal?
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 08, 2014, 06:32:15 PMWhy do we debate the immortality of a soul/person when I believe in my opinion the Bible is clear we do not have or to put it this way a person/human/soul is not immortal?
Why? I don't know about the rest of you, but I have learned a lot from this thread - gems like this from Rosered:
"Yes the stony heart is like a tomb , till the Day star rises in your hearts!!! He is risen to those whom believe and the changes come in Christ by the Spirit of God , making all things new !!"
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 08, 2014, 06:32:15 PM
Quote
Whether or not we are a soul or have a soul or whether or not the soul is innately immortal or not- these questions may be debated or discussed and rightly so with great interest, but if God has the heart- the rest just follows along :o)
Now we have the heart which is the mind..and the mind which is the heart..now we have the soul which is the heart/mind. Now a soul is a breathing creature which now God has.... a breathing creature.
Yes, as you say new hearts/minds are given. Why is it when the Bible says the SOUL(person) that sins will die, and are told in Gen. 2 if the first soul eats he shall die.
Don't sound like the soul is immortal....also why the need for
1Co 15:53 for it behoveth this corruptible(perishable) to put on incorruption(unending exsistence), and this mortal to put on immortality(deathlessness);
1Co 15:54 and when this corruptible(perishable) may have put on incorruption(unending exsistence), and this mortal may have put on immortality(deathlessness), then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up--to victory;
If as you say we are given a new heart and a new spirit how does that make us an immortal soul? Dont we have to wait for 1Co 15:51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we--we shall be changed:
Why do we debate the immortality of a soul/person when I believe in my opinion the Bible is clear we do not have or to put it this way a person/human/soul is not immortal?
Hi Bro M ,
for me , just my thoughts ok ,
being made new is putting on immortality , This is a promise of Jesus , you will never die
just as the soul/person / human is a breathing creature that does die
the new creature in Christ doe not die ever
I dont think you can tell by looking with a human eye who is a new creature in Christ who is not Live by the new Spirit of Christ in them its a new way and life without an end
this is just how I see it and its for now , not some other time or place , I believe the new takes hold in the seat of the soul /person /human , with an entirely new purpose of God I would say having the mind /heart of Christ , and that is obedience to the will and desire of the Father fully and gave up any ideas you are in control a surrender of the old way and life and man to a new beginning
How may times have we asked for the Lord to make this day a new and fresh and clean day with no sin in it ??? I sure know I have , looking at Jesus prayer tells me its possible with God now , not some other eon or age yet to come . / keeping us from the evil one where temptation subsides , He knows how to make an escape
2 Corinthians 5 16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,
yet now we know Him in this way no longer.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ,
he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,...
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 08, 2014, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 08, 2014, 06:32:15 PMWhy do we debate the immortality of a soul/person when I believe in my opinion the Bible is clear we do not have or to put it this way a person/human/soul is not immortal?
Why? I don't know about the rest of you, but I have learned a lot from this thread - gems like this from Rosered:
"Yes the stony heart is like a tomb , till the Day star rises in your hearts!!! He is risen to those whom believe and the changes come in Christ by the Spirit of God , making all things new !!"
God Bless you Bro Laz ,
Its good to believe in the Power of God though Jesus Christ is it not ?
we learn from Him and of Him share with one another like good children do and everyone is blessed made happy , I have learned lots from my brothers and sisters in Christ , a family that I truly treasure
All of us being Spirit filled and am so thankful , knowing its Gods blessings and goodness Holy Spirit , being poured out on our flesh !!
Quote from: rosered on October 08, 2014, 06:52:43 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 08, 2014, 06:32:15 PM
Quote
Whether or not we are a soul or have a soul or whether or not the soul is innately immortal or not- these questions may be debated or discussed and rightly so with great interest, but if God has the heart- the rest just follows along :o)
Now we have the heart which is the mind..and the mind which is the heart..now we have the soul which is the heart/mind. Now a soul is a breathing creature which now God has.... a breathing creature.
Yes, as you say new hearts/minds are given. Why is it when the Bible says the SOUL(person) that sins will die, and are told in Gen. 2 if the first soul eats he shall die.
Don't sound like the soul is immortal....also why the need for
1Co 15:53 for it behoveth this corruptible(perishable) to put on incorruption(unending exsistence), and this mortal to put on immortality(deathlessness);
1Co 15:54 and when this corruptible(perishable) may have put on incorruption(unending exsistence), and this mortal may have put on immortality(deathlessness), then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up--to victory;
If as you say we are given a new heart and a new spirit how does that make us an immortal soul? Dont we have to wait for 1Co 15:51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we--we shall be changed:
Why do we debate the immortality of a soul/person when I believe in my opinion the Bible is clear we do not have or to put it this way a person/human/soul is not immortal?
Hi Bro M ,
for me , just my thoughts ok ,
being made new is putting on immortality , This is a promise of Jesus , you will never die
just as the soul/person / human is a breathing creature that does die
the new creature in Christ doe not die ever
Rotherham(i) 26 And, no one who liveth again and believeth on me, shall in anywise die, unto times age-abiding. Believest thou this?
Yes. We learn :Peace2: :dsunny:
"Why? I don't know about the rest of you, but I have learned a lot from this thread - gems like this from Rosered:
"Yes the stony heart is like a tomb , till the Day star rises in your hearts!!! He is risen to those whom believe and the changes come in Christ by the Spirit of God , making all things new !!"
I dont think you can tell by looking with a human eye who is a new creature in Christ who is not Live by the new Spirit of Christ in them its a new way and life without an end
this is just how I see it and its for now , not some other time or place , I believe the new takes hold in the seat of the soul /person /human , with an entirely new purpose of God I would say having the mind /heart of Christ , and that is obedience to the will and desire of the Father fully and gave up any ideas you are in control a surrender of the old way and life and man to a new beginning
How may times have we asked for the Lord to make this day a new and fresh and clean day with no sin in it ??? I sure know I have , looking at Jesus prayer tells me its possible with God now , not some other eon or age yet to come . / keeping us from the evil one where temptation subsides , He knows how to make an escape
2 Corinthians 5 16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,
yet now we know Him in this way no longer.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,...