Atheist/Agnostic

[Transponder]

It is heartening to know that so many people here like the Transponder. Well, he like yu all right back. why woudn't he? We are all humankind together. There are some here with whom I would rather have breakfast than some fellow - posters on the Atheist network.

I know what is meant about the glow of the believer (though I am more familiar with the smug superior smirk) and it must be a real recruiting point to be seen to be so Happy.

It is impressive of course, when the bornagain radiate such joy peace and love - though that can quickly turn to petulance and hostility if the usual stock answers don't work on the questioner.

And that brings me to something that has facinated me. What I call the 'Big open-mouthed smile of deceit'.

I first noticed this when I listened to the commander that bluffed the Argentinians at Goose Green explaining how he had done it.

"I opened my heart to God and said "Do with me as you will" and the answer came to me.' or that was the gist as I remember. And I wondered at the time why God would be telling a Catholic commander how to oust the Catholic Argentinians from protestant - held islands but I recall the wide - eyed brilliant smile.

Some time later I saw a Mel Gibson film with Mel in fine Bible-puncher mode. "I know that God has a plan for me - but I don't know what." said the troubled squaddie. "Let's ask Him, shall we?" says Mel ..and there it was again, that big wide-eyed smile. Maybe it is a Catholic thing?

Perhaps, as following the Tsunami there were some accusations that Catholic authorities were using aid selectively to drum up business for the Vatican. A Sinhalese priest was filmed grumbling over the newpapers.
"These reports are not true...all lies..." He turned to the camera "The Devil is the Father of Lies". And there it was again, that big eager smile with the wide-open eyes.

And then I recalled where I knew it from. The kids are acting up and mommy is trying to get them back on line. " Listen everyone' she suggests with just that smile "Why don't we all.."
or "Now wouldn't you like to...." It is persuasion. Getting control of a situation. It is not actually being straight, it involves some distraction or misdirection. It is, essentially, attempting to bamboozle the other into doing what the smiler wants.

I don't know whether we have any body-language experts on the forum, but I should love some input on this.

[Transponder]

I mourn for those who are weak in faith who come here. :sigh:
It is enough to affirm for those who already know this:God is God, Jesus Christ is Lord - some know this as fact. I am one of them.

quote transponder

I wouldn't be surprised if you are contending against real doubts at this moment.

I assure you and everyone else who reads this, that there can be no deconversion for me, I already have the truth. There are no doubts for those for whom God has removed all doubt. I mourn for others who are called who are weak in faith, that read your posts, not that you will defeat them, but that you have made the path harder for them. God will bring a man whom he has called, through the fire even to want death, as many times as it takes, till they look up again.

Well, look on the positive side. God has placed many tests on the path of the unbeliever. Religious leaders with feet of clay, a religious book that needs heaps of illogic in order to be beleved, a nicely - wrought Christian empire suddenly cut down to half by the arabs. An inexplicable Tsunami, a god-inspired enterprise in the middle east that looks (if we didn't know any better) to be no better directed than by fallible man without any God-input at all. All these things are there to try the faith of the faithful by God not only decining to make it clear that He exists but positively doing all he can to show that he doesn't.

All this is to be sure that the faithful saved have shown themselves to be god's elect; those that refuse to doubt despite all the evidence up to and including proof positive that the ain't no God.

So think of me as part of that plan. Don't slag off God's work. He will be miffed with you.

[SeekerSA]

Hey Trans

IPOG looks like AN Mk2

Plenty of your buddies there and they were invited.

Ol' Jeff had himself deleted completely, Roman is gone, even Trinity is banned.  Ol' Jeff had a right royal time.

Seems Jon is allowing all to express their views there now except maybe RC's. 

Must have his hands full just to unban dad's work :pointlaugh:

Even Jon has challenged the Christians about their holy huddledness.

May get interesting there soon.

Blessings

and btw, till you break the rules, UR welcome here.

[SeekerSA]

Sultanas, so I gather. We get a handful of sultanas. 'Virgins' is apparently a mistranslation. No, the reward of living a life of forswearing alcohol is to sprawl on a couch sinking shiraz by the bucket... 

Grapes :mshock: Yeesh, will those guys be dissappointed, and only 70 to boot.  :laugh: :omg:

:beerburp:

[arcticmonster2003]

quote transponder

All this is to be sure that the faithful saved have shown themselves to be god's elect; those that refuse to doubt despite all the evidence up to and including proof positive that the ain't no God.

So think of me as part of that plan. Don't slag off God's work. He will be miffed with you.

Well, the best part of this (and stumbling blocks are rarely this easy to remove) is that with a few clicks of a mouse, I can find a forum that doesn't allow blaspheming God. So, if you were part of this plan for me, you aren't anymore, I must have been the weakest brother in Christ here.

[Michele]

For me, being an atheist was just the only logical choice. I had no personal knowledge of God, therefore had no reason to believe. I will admit that some 'Jesus freaks' I knew seemed to have a glow about them, but in the end it took a personal encounter with God Himself to change me, and that's the only real transformation - one that God makes. 
Transponder - I can identify with what you said in this thread (haven't read your other posts) because when ya' don't know, it just don't make no sense at all. Personally, I don't mind atheists posting here, no threat at all. Helps me remember where I came from.

  - byron 

Thanks for that post byron..... :girlheart:

[Transponder]

Sultanas, so I gather. We get a handful of sultanas. 'Virgins' is apparently a mistranslation. No, the reward of living a life of forswearing alcohol is to sprawl on a couch sinking shiraz by the bucket... 

Grapes :mshock: Yeesh, will those guys be dissappointed, and only 70 to boot.  :laugh: :omg:

:beerburp:

Heee. As I once posted on the AN "Raisins??? I blew my everlovin' A.. off for RAISINS???"

Thanks for the info. on POG. Maybe I'll look in there again. My e-pal Cosmic Chris tells me he feels the wingbeat of the banbird there but perhaps things have changed. Apparently Jeff banned everyone including himself.

[Transponder]

quote transponder

All this is to be sure that the faithful saved have shown themselves to be god's elect; those that refuse to doubt despite all the evidence up to and including proof positive that the ain't no God.

So think of me as part of that plan. Don't slag off God's work. He will be miffed with you.

Well, the best part of this (and stumbling blocks are rarely this easy to remove) is that with a few clicks of a mouse, I can find a forum that doesn't allow blaspheming God. So, if you were part of this plan for me, you aren't anymore, I must have been the weakest brother in Christ here.

Don't tell me you're leaving? Blaspheming God? Now, who is doing that? Are we seeing what would happen if the blasphemy laws were made as strong as the truly faithful would want - any disagreement with the Holy Writ made a capital offence? Stop and ask yourself whether you are acting like a reasonable human bean or like some frowny-faced muslim fanatic.

[Michele]

Hey again Transponder......just want to say that I'm glad you are here, but still curious as to why you post on this forum.  Your explainations don't add up IMO.  Don't get me wrong.....I'm glad you're here, but I just can't see a true "atheist" spending time on a Christian Universalist forum.  What is the pay off for you?  I myself come here because I enjoy sharing and listening to others that share the same hope that I do.


Trandponder...is there some where deep down inside that you hope there is a happy ending to it all......or are you out to prove or teach us something that you think we're not seeing right now that is going to profoundly change our lives for the better?

I'm serious with my questions here because it's all quite a puzzle.....I know a couple other athiests pretty well including my husband, and all of them stay away from spiritual matters.  In fact my husband thinks that forums and fellowships like this are a waste of time in general. :sigh:

[Transponder]

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm doing here or what I'm expecting to achieve. I just have an idea that telling people what they want to hear is well enough but you only make progress by telling people what maybe they don't want to hear.

[Gizmo]

transponder said: From what I have seen of gods, I would prefer NOT to have them about, thanks very much. An afterlife might be nice, but, if we have one, then it is as natural as birth and death and we would all get it, not just those that worship the right deity.

Couldn't agree more!!  Nice posts!

Peace.

Giz

[Michele]

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm doing here or what I'm expecting to achieve. I just have an idea that telling people what they want to hear is well enough but you only make progress by telling people what maybe they don't want to hear.

........progress towards what Transponder?

[Michele]

Transponder.......I too agree with that quote of yours that Giz just pointed out.  Sounds to me like you would like to believe that all are saved in the end.......but you're just afraid you might get your hopes up.

[dboutwell]

An afterlife might be nice, but, if we have one, then it is as natural as birth and death and we would all get it

do tell...I agree with an atheist.   The apostle Paul said it somewhat like like this, Transponder.( I'm on a hotel puter and don't have crosswalk.com at the click of my mouse right now)

As in Adam all die, so also in Christ will all be made alive And, God has shut up all in unbelief that He may have mercy on all.


blessings  :grin:

[Transponder]

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm doing here or what I'm expecting to achieve. I just have an idea that telling people what they want to hear is well enough but you only make progress by telling people what maybe they don't want to hear.

........progress towards what Transponder?

Progress towards, in the end, a world without superstitions and quarrels over those superstitions.

I know...How am I moving towards that with bothering you folks here. Why am I not campaigning, pamphleteering, starting up an atheist website or magazine? I am a very small person with very limited abilities and I would not know how to do all those things. I might, however, encourage some of those that could.

One plan I have is to try to publish, one day, my collected posts, tidied up and made to look like a coherent argument. You bods are producing from me some of my best. Atheist books are now more saleable than ever before (1).

I already have my Jesus theory (in the form of a novel) and I might use an extract in the 'resurrection' thread, ...yada, yada...

(1) not that I want to get rich from my deeply  - held principles - he lied.   

[Transponder]

Transponder.......I too agree with that quote of yours that Giz just pointed out.  Sounds to me like you would like to believe that all are saved in the end.......but you're just afraid you might get your hopes up.

The point is, if there is a (natural) afterlife for us all then there is no point in worrying about it. It reverses Pascal's wager - it is a better bet to live this life as though there was no life after death.

If there is no afterlife (natural - for us all) at least we have lived our own life rather than one wasted on myth.

If there is an afterlife (natural - for us all) then wasting time on myth is pointless.

[Transponder]

An afterlife might be nice, but, if we have one, then it is as natural as birth and death and we would all get it

do tell...I agree with an atheist.   The apostle Paul said it somewhat like like this, Transponder.( I'm on a hotel puter and don't have crosswalk.com at the click of my mouse right now)

As in Adam all die, so also in Christ will all be made alive And, God has shut up all in unbelief that He may have mercy on all.


blessings  :grin:

Corinthians - 1Cr 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

However.

1Cr 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Cr 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

By 'all' Paul seems to mean (in the context of all his writings) those that have Faith in Jesus. Not just everyone.

Perhaps he thought  - as is the thought on this forum - that God's plan is that everyone should believe and would therefore be saved. Paul must have doubted that would really be the case.

It certainly appears to mean that 'Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God' is indefinitely deferred, unless there is some post - 'end' mechanism for recycling the unbeliever. If there is..why worry? Whether the afterlife is natural (for everyone) or US (for everyone - eventually) or there is none at all, best to just make the most of your life and don't worry about trying to believe the unbelievable. 


P.s just noticed how you added on something from Romans.

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

I'm not sure that they should be read together out of context.

[Michele]

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm doing here or what I'm expecting to achieve. I just have an idea that telling people what they want to hear is well enough but you only make progress by telling people what maybe they don't want to hear.

........progress towards what Transponder?

Progress towards, in the end, a world without superstitions and quarrels over those superstitions.

I know...How am I moving towards that with bothering you folks here. Why am I not campaigning, pamphleteering, starting up an atheist website or magazine? I am a very small person with very limited abilities and I would not know how to do all those things. I might, however, encourage some of those that could.

One plan I have is to try to publish, one day, my collected posts, tidied up and made to look like a coherent argument. You bods are producing from me some of my best. Atheist books are now more saleable than ever before (1).

I already have my Jesus theory (in the form of a novel) and I might use an extract in the 'resurrection' thread, ...yada, yada...

(1) not that I want to get rich from my deeply  - held principles - he lied.   

Superstition is merely emotion driven thinking........IMO we all do that at some time or another.......

For some reason we all seem to be emotion driven individuals.  Wonder why that is??  :HeartThrob:

[Michele]

Transponder.......I too agree with that quote of yours that Giz just pointed out.  Sounds to me like you would like to believe that all are saved in the end.......but you're just afraid you might get your hopes up.

The point is, if there is a (natural) afterlife for us all then there is no point in worrying about it. It reverses Pascal's wager - it is a better bet to live this life as though there was no life after death.

If there is no afterlife (natural - for us all) at least we have lived our own life rather than one wasted on myth.

If there is an afterlife (natural - for us all) then wasting time on myth is pointless.

For me iTransponder......it's quite different.....I don't WORRY about the afterlife.  I know.......it's more than taken care of.  Helps me get on with my life now and know that the story ends good.

It helps me to see that tomorrow is bright instead of bleek.  I'd rather live and die in hope......instead of no hope.........this keeps me going.

Perhaps the afterlife is as natural as tomorrow is.......night is symbolic of death, and tomorrow is symbolic of a new day.  There surely is a cycle of seasons and death and rebirth left for us to see as a symbol of something that in my opinion is greater.

 

[dboutwell]

Transponder,

P.s just noticed how you added on something from Romans.

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

I'm not sure that they should be read together out of context.

I stuck them together because i was in a hurry to get off the hotel's computer..someone was waitng for it. Although, to read each of them in their context, I believe, brings that same conclusion. I believe God is the creator and He made a way for all of His creation to be with Him through Christ. Some are chose to do certain things in his kingdom and just because others are not doesn't mean they cease to exist. or, heaven forbid, burn for eternity in Hell. Sheese, I'm glad God is smarter that we are.

Anyway, my thoughts.... :grin:

[Dean]

Transponder,

My daughter told me this weekend that a friend recently said to her that, "she is a beautiful and worthy spiritual being...experiencing being human".

Before I became a believer..my recolection is that I had thoughts of being more than human.

In your 'being human' do you ever experience consciousness of being ...more than human?

Dean

[Michele]

Hey Dean......your daughter sounds like she has some nice friends.  :HeartThrob:

Reminds me of the question - Are we humans having a spiritual experience, or are we spirit having a human experience??

[Transponder]

Transponder,

My daughter told me this weekend that a friend recently said to her that, "she is a beautiful and worthy spiritual being...experiencing being human".

Before I became a believer..my recolection is that I had thoughts of being more than human.

In your 'being human' do you ever experience consciousness of being ...more than human?

Dean

It strikes me as being a bit of a subjective thought. There are things about me and the way my head works that I don't understand. I don't see them as more than that though. I have experienced deja vu and my name being called by someone in my head. However, I didn't jump to any conclusions about what caused that. Recently I read some interesting work on 'voices' that proposed an interesting suggestion on where these voices come from and how they sometimes seem to know what we (consciously) don't. It rather sidelined to 'angels' explanation.   

(edit. It rather sidelined to 'angels' explanation. should read 'It rather sidelined the 'angels' explanation.' in the sense that it suggested a purely brain - based phenomenon)