are these true

[lomarah]

how about my question

did paul write anything in latin?

I would say no, I went to a Bible University and I believe the New Testament was mostly written in Greek. If any of the letters had been written in Latin i'm pretty sure our professors would have told us that and would have offered Latin as a language. (We only had Greek or Hebrew for Biblical languages although there is also some Aramaic in the Bible.)

[WhiteWings]

But that doesn't mean Paul did or didn't write anything in Latin that's not in the Bible.

[Nathan]

In the studies I've been in personally, I agree with most everyone who's already chimed in on this one.  The only area of question is whether the New Testament was originally in Greek or Hebrew.  The "general" teaching has been that it was Greek but there is a growing number that believe it to was originally written in Hebrew and then transated into Greek.  All though if this is to be true, I guess I don't understand why Paul would write Hebrew letters to Greek churches, but that's just me.

I also saw how the conversation swam for a while in the issue of "colors" and how they were applied to the four horses and how green could be applied to muslims . . .as interesting as all of that was and much of it I hadn't heard before, most of it doesn't really settle well mainly because when it comes to spiritual patterns, I've yet to see where they are unique only to one application, such as green being applied to muslims.

Because that particular horse does clearly represent death, then I can't very well try to make my personal view of green fit into something that doesn't fit.  In the rest of Scripture, green implies life, I may sound like WW here, but the word "green" is used 41 times in Scripture.  And not one of those times is it referring to Muslims.  The elementary understanding of reading Scripture is that we allow it to interpret itself.

And that is where many seem to walk away from when interpreting the book of Revelation.  If you understand the tabernacle of Moses, then you'll be able to see how Revelation is pieced together.  The tabernacle was the type and shadow of the nature and workings of Christ.  Revelation is the "unveiling" of that shadow of Christ.  It intertwines with the tabernacle.  That's why you see articles of the tabernacle all through Revelation.  The tabernacle is the blueprint.

At any rate, when reading through the 41 passages where green is mentioned, in most all of the cases, it's referring to life manifesting.  If there was a plague or drought in affect, passages describe the scene as "no living green thing" was left.  Indicating the absence of life.

However, when dealing with men as trees . . . if there were ungodly things, such as idol worship, going on, many times those things would be taking place "under every green tree".  I don't know why, but I used to think that had something to do with ever-green trees.  But that's a result of my own natural thinking mind, I believe.  

I think the message there now is, we think we can be sneaky about our rebellion and hide in the shadows the trees cast over us.  If you think about it, the shade of a tree is the one of the very few natural things out there that blocks the light of the Son from our wickedness.

Bottom line, I think if the word does apply to green, it's more of a pale green, a lifeless green.  But the green is just a symbol.  Grey does seem more appropriate when understanding the horse (strength) that represents death would be a grey one.  Red being blood, white being purity and black being darkness.  Blue being heavenly, purple being royalty, red usually pertaining to redemptive blood, but this red horse is not out for redemption.  Just as when Cain spilled Abels blood was not a sign of redemption either.  I think in Revelation, this horse represents the blood being spilled when man murders men . . .just like what happened in A.D. 70 when Israel was wiped off the map.

[thinktank]

But that doesn't mean Paul did or didn't write anything in Latin that's not in the Bible.

Paul was a Hebrew of the tribe of Benjamin and his nation is a nation of bible scholars, it's almost a certainty that Paul wrote in his native tongue and passed his revelations to the scribes to study. Even in Greece Paul went to the Jews, who speak Hebrew and I'm sure that in his travels he would have learnt the greek language, so that he could speak to the greeks, but I find it hard to believe that he took the time to learn the writings of the greek language and the latin writings.

It would be interesting to know the exact group of people that Paul wrote the letters too, are they truly greeks or are they Hebrew greek Jews living in Greece?

[Nathan]

I can see what you're saying TT, I think the only thing I'd change is the idea that Paul would send his writings to the scribes . . . for me, a scribe is one that dedicates his life to transcribing what was already accepted as authentic Scripture.  Paul was no longer one upon whom the general religious church accepted to be compared to the Isaiahs and Ezekiels out there.  But I do believe Paul did have writers with him that could quite possibly either write his letters in Hebrew and then translated them into Greek or that he wrote his letters and the writers transcribed them, which is basically what you were saying, but for me, even though the "act" of rewriting something is probably what went on, it's not necessarily the same as a scribe as Scripture alludes to them.

A scribe was as religious as a Pharisee, I guess that's all I'm trying to say here.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: From my studies I vote the NT was originally written in Hebrew and transcribed into Greek for Greek speakers. Paul studied under Gamaliel and I can't see Paul writing letters in Greek, conveying what were essentially Hebrew understandings.

That's why so many of the translations are messed up in the first place, IMO, because of whoever tried to translate Hebrew thought patterns into Greek philosophical mindsets. The two couldn't be more opposite, and is the main way the division happened from what was a unified ecclesia and once divided again, that division was maintained between Jew and Greek/gentile.

IMO, we were never meant to be "Christians" as defined as being separate from our Jewish brethren (salvation is of the Jews) in the first place, because we were grafted INTO the original Jewish olive tree, making of twain one new man. But yet He knew it would happen, and so here we are......Blessings....

[eaglesway]

:cloud9: From my studies I vote the NT was originally written in Hebrew and transcribed into Greek for Greek speakers. Paul studied under Gamaliel and I can't see Paul writing letters in Greek, conveying what were essentially Hebrew understandings.

That's why so many of the translations are messed up in the first place, IMO, because of whoever tried to translate Hebrew thought patterns into Greek philosophical mindsets. The two couldn't be more opposite, and is the main way the division happened from what was a unified ecclesia and once divided again, that division was maintained between Jew and Greek/gentile.

I really think this is one of the most important statements that needs to be made. Words like "olam" were translated to "aion/aionian(Grk)" and then to "forever/everlasting(Eng)". In the process the Jewish concept of olam-  an adjective describing an uncertain, otherworldly, indeterminate encapsulation that is modulated by the subject it is attached to- becomes a whole new idea in a different mindset creating a new and sometimes false context.

The same is true of sheol(Heb) to hades(Grk) to hell(Eng). Each step of the way the word picks up new meaning from the mind set of the new culture and loses original meaning meaning. Other examples "apokalupsis/apocalypse"; "parousia/coming"; "uihothesia/adoption". All these words have suffered violence in the translation process, and now mean something different to contemporary hearers than they meant in the minds of the speakers.

The restoration of the "one new man" is, in my opinion, the signpost of the end of the age......"until we all attain to the unity of the faith, unto a mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of the son of God".

UNTO FULL STATURE
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
(Rev 12:1-2)
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
(Rev 12:5)



Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
(Isa 66:6-11)

ONE NEW MAN-
And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
(Rev 10:1-3)

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
(Eph 1:20-23)

[Lefein]

Paul said that he became all things to all people (paraphrasing)

Why wouldn't the educated Apostle to the gentiles write letters (personal documents to a group, or individual) to the Greeks in their own native tongue?

Greek wasn't just the native tongue of the Gentiles either - it was the English of the day; the international language of commerce, culture, literature, and thought.

The Septuagint was the "translation of the Bible" (you might say) used by the religious majority of the day if I recall correctly.

[Molly]

:cloud9: From my studies I vote the NT was originally written in Hebrew and transcribed into Greek for Greek speakers. Paul studied under Gamaliel and I can't see Paul writing letters in Greek, conveying what were essentially Hebrew understandings.

That's why so many of the translations are messed up in the first place, IMO, because of whoever tried to translate Hebrew thought patterns into Greek philosophical mindsets. The two couldn't be more opposite, and is the main way the division happened from what was a unified ecclesia and once divided again, that division was maintained between Jew and Greek/gentile.

I really think this is one of the most important statements that needs to be made. Words like "olam" were translated to "aion/aionian(Grk)" and then to "forever/everlasting(Eng)". In the process the Jewish concept of olam-  an adjective describing an uncertain, otherworldly, indeterminate encapsulation that is modulated by the subject it is attached to- becomes a whole new idea in a different mindset creating a new and sometimes false context.

Yes, but don't you think that happened on purpose?  Because this is the age of the firstfruits.

Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

--Mat 13

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  Yes, I think it was part of the darkness that was set to befall the church so that the next 2000 years or 2 days of the pattern, could be walked out. The veil was put back in place. Blessings....