All out of love.

[junkbunny]

removed

[Lefein]

She could use some Joyce Meyer.

Joyce isn't perhaps someone that this site would sponsor (she isn't UR, and is what many would call "Traditional"), but I personally would vouch that her teaching-applications have helped me tremendously.

http://www.joycemeyer.org/ourministries/broadcast/

She has a lot of good stuff to offer, I believe.  I'd be years behind if God hadn't introduced me to this servant of his.

She is a tv-evangelist, so there are a few faults, and she does have some products; but she bears fruit, and that's the key.

I think at the very least, it will be helpful to you, and your situation, since your prostitute friend might be able to relate to her. :)

I really, really do recommend it.

[Ratpak05]

It sounds like your friend has several addictions and until she is ready to face them, her behavior will probably stay the same.  I have a cousin who is very similar and constantly tells me she is going to change but it won't happen until she is truly ready. I know that she wants the results of her behavior to be different, but she doesn't actually want to change the behavior.

I try to remember two things about my cousin:

1. She is getting something out of her behavior - attention, chaos, rescued, etc. - that is more important to her than changing her behavior.

2.  There is nothing I can do to force her to change but I can tell her how I feel and stop enabling her behavior

If I were you I would simply pray for God to help you do what's best for her in the long run, even if might be difficult to do.  Good luck with your friend.

[jabcat]

It sounds like your friend has several addictions and until she is ready to face them, her behavior will probably stay the same.  I have a cousin who is very similar and constantly tells me she is going to change but it won't happen until she is truly ready. I know that she wants the results of her behavior to be different, but she doesn't actually want to change the behavior.

I try to remember two things about my cousin:

1. She is getting something out of her behavior - attention, chaos, rescued, etc. - that is more important to her than changing her behavior.

2.  There is nothing I can do to force her to change but I can tell her how I feel and stop enabling her behavior
If I were you I would simply pray for God to help you do what's best for her in the long run, even if might be difficult to do.  Good luck with your friend.

:thumbsup:   We can't change other peoples' behavior, but we can draw the line on what we're willing to put up with.

I can't say she's not, but not everyone who says they're a Christian actually is.  ("the devils believe and tremble", "not everyone that says Lord, Lord", etc.).  Is there fruit anywhere, any evidence that "in Christ Jesus, old things are passing away, and behold, all things are becoming new" in her life?  Anything that shows a change, as in "spiritually born from above"?  Either way, there's nothing that says you have to like or put up with her behavior - especially under your own roof.  We can gently and lovingly, yet firmly draw some lines, set some limits, etc.  

It may be hard to know exactly how to do this lovingly;  not self-righteously, not even condemningly - but Paul turned certain people out (out from under the protection of the ecclesia?) - so they would suffer the consequences and learn.  And he said this;       "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one."  I Cor. 5:11.  Still though, even if she were unsaved, I don't believe you are required to be held a victim in any way to her behavior.  

So I'd say pray about it, ask for God's guidance, to help you love and have the right attitude;  but IMO, that doesn't necessarily mean you're required to like or put up with the continued behavior.  

[jabcat]

So, I'm really just encouraging you to pray about guidance, and to not feel you have to "put up with it" and be a victim - that you can do something in such a sad situation.

Blessings, James. 

[thinktank]

This is a challenging situation. On one hand she is your friend and Jesus forgave the prostitute, but on the other hand the bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelivers.

Sounds to me she enjoys destruction and thrills of stealing etc. I don't think she realizes the danger she is in and is allways high. Maybe you should slap her and wake her up  :laughing7:
But with a thrill seeker like her she probably would sue you for fun.

I think its important that you do not let her destroy you, so maybe you should tell her you cannot be friends with her anymore and instead let God be her friend, by praying for her etc and by a miracle maybe she will mend her ways.

Remember that the apostle Paul gave up some of his members to Satan, so they do not blaspheme. I would not call upon Satan for he already has a grip on her life and that is a dangerous thing to even mention him but pray to God for direction. I think the apostle Paul did not call upon satan but rather simply let his disciple to his own devices and thus by consoquence satan was involved.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's a difficult situation because sometimes unconditional love IS what wins them to Christ, and you may be the only way she "sees" it. I would fast and pray and ask the Lord for direction in how to deal (or not to) with her next. Spiritual warfare demands spiritual tactics, and she is in the hands of spirits that want her destruction and until her eyes are opened to the reality of that, words are not going to faze her, most likely. Blessings....

[Nathan]

You know . . .there "is" that chance that she was sent to you not so you could help her, but that through this experience, this trial, this tribulation . . .this is a furnace for which God may have called you into to bring purification to your own heart and soul so that on the other side, this experience would manifest pure, unconditional love for the person, rather than basing love on the actions of the person.

Hell experiences are never easy . . .if they were, they'd be called "heaven" experiences.  My first thought at reading the original plea here was that guidelines should be laid out and if not followed, then the occupant should be let go from the living quarters.

And the comments previous to mine make valid sense . . .unequally yoked, Paul condoning removing a person from the church, even though the motives to that one were to always have a reconciliation following the removal . . .

But when I laid my head down . . .the message changed.  So all I can say now is .  .lay your head down and see what the spirit reveals to you personally on this.

[chuckt]

she sounds like a really bad sinner  :msealed:

joking aside, love her, pray, help, dont show judgment, in time God will heal, only in his time, and remember:

he/she who is forgiven much, loveth much.

when she realizes just how much God HAS forgiven her, there will be great rejoicing.

Rom 5:10   For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.  


Rom 5:11   And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.  


2Cr 5:18   And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;  


2Cr 5:19   To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.  


2Cr 5:20   Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.  


minister  reconciliation unto her!!


God bless
chuckt

[Paul Hazelwood]

Being a Friend never has meant that you just accept someones behavior and overlook it.  It does not mean that you have to hang out with someone and watch while they do all the things you believe are wrong, hurtful to themselves or hurtful to others.

Sometimes being a friend and loving someone means to draw the line, let them know that you want to be friends and want to spend time with them but you can't just sit and watch them behave certain ways.

I have dealt with this in the past two ways,  I have stated my case and then find things to do with that person that is not on their home turf. 

Take your friend somewhere out of her element, if she doesn't want to do that, then don't spend time with her.   If she does then let her get her life off her chest and be there for her.

Secondly, I have had to let friends go,  not to tell them I do not want to spend time with them, but to not focus on them as if it was my job to fix them.  Have conversations, when they start talking about their habits, life woes, tell them not to talk to you about those things, because you can't help them and don't approve of doing any of it and that you want to be friends and have a relationship that isn't like patient and counselor.

[shawn]

She could use some Joyce Meyer.

Joyce isn't perhaps someone that this site would sponsor (she isn't UR, and is what many would call "Traditional"), but I personally would vouch that her teaching-applications have helped me tremendously.

http://www.joycemeyer.org/ourministries/broadcast/

She has a lot of good stuff to offer, I believe.  I'd be years behind if God hadn't introduced me to this servant of his.

She is a tv-evangelist, so there are a few faults, and she does have some products; but she bears fruit, and that's the key.

I think at the very least, it will be helpful to you, and your situation, since your prostitute friend might be able to relate to her. :)

I really, really do recommend it.

I will second Joyce Meyers.  When I was in deep dark depression, anxiety and addiction God used hers and Charles Stanley's messages to help me.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tank...  :winkgrin:

This is a challenging situation. On one hand she is your friend and Jesus forgave the prostitute, but on the other hand the bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelivers.

Hmmm... so in following JESUS, we don't DO as He DID? :omg:  Or do we DO what HE DID, and then have FAITH that He shall work through us to help her?

Sounds to me she enjoys destruction and thrills of stealing etc. I don't think she realizes the danger she is in and is allways high. Maybe you should slap her and wake her up  :laughing7:

I cannot possibly see what you find as funny about this, Tank...  :sigh:

But with a thrill seeker like her she probably would sue you for fun.

Wow Tank... pretty harsh and negatively ASSUMING statement!  :pitiful:

Someone that is immersed in such behavior needs ABOVE ALL, a friend that is understanding, and that BELIEVES that God shall lead them in ministering to this person, while KEEPING you from the dangers -- Jude 24 --  :dontknow:

How do you percieve that CHRIST was not only motivated to go into the darkness, but was dependent upon the Father to KEEP Him from falling?  Instead recommending one to RUN AWAY from a problem that needs the attendance of the PHYSICIAN?

If we all take such "standoffish" positions concerning sinful behaviors of friends or family, then WHO is left to influence them?  Are not the evildoers, (once YOU abandon them) left to them, as their only company?  :dontknow:

Just leave them to DIE?  Where is CHRIST in this recommendation?

I think its important that you do not let her destroy you, so maybe you should tell her you cannot be friends with her anymore and instead let God be her friend, by praying for her etc and by a miracle maybe she will mend her ways.

Wow... on the way to "church" without conscience, ...do we pass the wounded by on the roadside ignoring their need -- Luke 10:30-36 -- and then (hypocritically) arrive in "church" calling ourselves  "ministers of CHRIST"? :rolleye:

Worrying FIRST about SELF, leaving the one which BURIED in dire circumstance, to their own destructive devices?  :mshock:

And in doing so, pass the "friend" buck to God, and let "Him" take care of it?  How do you percieve that GOD works in this world Tank?  :dontknow:

I thought we were to be INSTRUMENTS in His hand, bro? 

Is this the way we shall go about representing GOD, ...by waxing COLD, SELFISH and INDIFFERENT... and in doing so, claim to be the followers of LOVE? :dunno:

What if JESUS had taken this attitude concerning US?  :sigh:

Remember that the apostle Paul gave up some of his members to Satan, so they do not blaspheme. I would not call upon Satan for he already has a grip on her life and that is a dangerous thing to even mention him but pray to God for direction.

"satan" is plainly the principality of adversity ITSELF (not an individual which is "omnipresent")... and anyone immersed in it, shall be ADVERSARY to that which is GOOD and RIGHT. 

If Paul is here indeed giving this one up to "satan", ...he was not handing them over to the "dirtbag", for them to get "cleansed" was he?  How can that be?

There are deep spiritual teachings in this passage -- 1 Cor 5 -- much like are found in Mark 9:43-50

The Leaven, is not the persons, it is the ACTIVITY of the persons (son & fathers wife) that taints the collective, combined with the purposed IGNORANCE of the activity within their midst, BY the collective...

It is the ACTIVITY that needs to be PUT AWAY... not the persons which, to begin with, were beloved in the collective... to be abandoned by that "loving" collective in their time of need...  :HeartThrob:

How can an outfit call itself the ministry of UNSELFISH LOVE, while practicing UNLOVING SELFISHNESS?

I believe this passage is speaking of followers, not being PARTY to what another does concerning evil behaviors... If you KNOW they are doing evil, you must take the opportunity to employ measures that minister GOOD, not abandon the one DISEASED, when they are in dire need of HEALING.

Seems to me that it is a common thing, for most "christian's" to be in a hurry to "kick out" sinners instead of helping them!   What kind of compassion is found in this approach? (again, revisit the story of the "good samaritan")

This friend of Junkbunny, has openly cried about her problem... which shows an inner concern in her heart, ...but most drug addicted's do this... and yet, lack the strength and motivations from within themselves, to address their problems. 

Have you ever had proximity with a drug addict (friend or fam)?  It is a hard thing... but LOVE that is truly LOVE, ...stands by the one in harms way, it does NOT ABANDON them in time of need.

Maybe being outspokenly truthful (in a gentle manner) might be a better way of helping this girl, reminding her of her tears, ...instead of just BOOTING her out into the street where she can easily find DEATH and DESTRUCTION from her habits... (drugs, protitution, etc.)

Shall we do this with all criminal behavior, Tank?  Ever see the movie "Escape from New York"? It is about isolating the criminals, and killing them if they try to escape... Hey, let's abandon any attempts to rehabilitate SIN, with the LOVE of GOD as our strength, and just create a giant prison, and let the evil ones "eat each other up", or KILL them if necessary! :rolleye:

I think the apostle Paul did not call upon satan but rather simply let his disciple to his own devices and thus by consoquence satan was involved.

Wasn't "satan", ...already "involved"?  The passage -- 1 Cor 5:1-13 speaks of FORNICATION in the midst, which was being IGNORED by the believers, instead of being addressed.  No one was "stepping up to the plate"... instead, they were SILENTLY condoning the "fornication" (a man having his father's wife).

I guess we all look at things differently... but as I see the WORDS of CHRIST -- Matt 5:44-48 -- that note to forgive enemies, and BLESS them, ...means to HELP them, as messengers and ministers of GOD...

It seems an OPPOSITE and SELFISHLY oriented doing --- to adopt a philosphy that kicks OUT the "enemies"... so they don't violate ..."US"...

My  :2c:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[thinktank]

willieH: Hi Tank...  :winkgrin:

This is a challenging situation. On one hand she is your friend and Jesus forgave the prostitute, but on the other hand the bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelivers.

Hmmm... so in following JESUS, we don't DO as He DID? :omg:  Or do we DO what HE DID, and then have FAITH that He shall work through us to help her?

Sounds to me she enjoys destruction and thrills of stealing etc. I don't think she realizes the danger she is in and is allways high. Maybe you should slap her and wake her up  :laughing7:

I cannot possibly see what you find as funny about this, Tank...  :sigh:

But with a thrill seeker like her she probably would sue you for fun.

Wow Tank... pretty harsh and negatively ASSUMING statement!  :pitiful:

Someone that is immersed in such behavior needs ABOVE ALL, a friend that is understanding, and that BELIEVES that God shall lead them in ministering to this person, while KEEPING you from the dangers -- Jude 24 --  :dontknow:

How do you percieve that CHRIST was not only motivated to go into the darkness, but was dependent upon the Father to KEEP Him from falling?  Instead recommending one to RUN AWAY from a problem that needs the attendance of the PHYSICIAN?

If we all take such "standoffish" positions concerning sinful behaviors of friends or family, then WHO is left to influence them?  Are not the evildoers, (once YOU abandon them) left to them, as their only company?  :dontknow:

Just leave them to DIE?  Where is CHRIST in this recommendation?

I think its important that you do not let her destroy you, so maybe you should tell her you cannot be friends with her anymore and instead let God be her friend, by praying for her etc and by a miracle maybe she will mend her ways.

Wow... on the way to "church" without conscience, ...do we pass the wounded by on the roadside ignoring their need -- Luke 10:30-36 -- and then (hypocritically) arrive in "church" calling ourselves  "ministers of CHRIST"? :rolleye:

Worrying FIRST about SELF, leaving the one which BURIED in dire circumstance, to their own destructive devices?  :mshock:

And in doing so, pass the "friend" buck to God, and let "Him" take care of it?  How do you percieve that GOD works in this world Tank?  :dontknow:

I thought we were to be INSTRUMENTS in His hand, bro? 

Is this the way we shall go about representing GOD, ...by waxing COLD, SELFISH and INDIFFERENT... and in doing so, claim to be the followers of LOVE? :dunno:

What if JESUS had taken this attitude concerning US?  :sigh:

Remember that the apostle Paul gave up some of his members to Satan, so they do not blaspheme. I would not call upon Satan for he already has a grip on her life and that is a dangerous thing to even mention him but pray to God for direction.

"satan" is plainly the principality of adversity ITSELF (not an individual which is "omnipresent")... and anyone immersed in it, shall be ADVERSARY to that which is GOOD and RIGHT. 

If Paul is here indeed giving this one up to "satan", ...he was not handing them over to the "dirtbag", for them to get "cleansed" was he?  How can that be?

There are deep spiritual teachings in this passage -- 1 Cor 5 -- much like are found in Mark 9:43-50

The Leaven, is not the persons, it is the ACTIVITY of the persons (son & fathers wife) that taints the collective, combined with the purposed IGNORANCE of the activity within their midst, BY the collective...

It is the ACTIVITY that needs to be PUT AWAY... not the persons which, to begin with, were beloved in the collective... to be abandoned by that "loving" collective in their time of need...  :HeartThrob:

How can an outfit call itself the ministry of UNSELFISH LOVE, while practicing UNLOVING SELFISHNESS?

I believe this passage is speaking of followers, not being PARTY to what another does concerning evil behaviors... If you KNOW they are doing evil, you must take the opportunity to employ measures that minister GOOD, not abandon the one DISEASED, when they are in dire need of HEALING.

Seems to me that it is a common thing, for most "christian's" to be in a hurry to "kick out" sinners instead of helping them!   What kind of compassion is found in this approach? (again, revisit the story of the "good samaritan")

This friend of Junkbunny, has openly cried about her problem... which shows an inner concern in her heart, ...but most drug addicted's do this... and yet, lack the strength and motivations from within themselves, to address their problems. 

Have you ever had proximity with a drug addict (friend or fam)?  It is a hard thing... but LOVE that is truly LOVE, ...stands by the one in harms way, it does NOT ABANDON them in time of need.

Maybe being outspokenly truthful (in a gentle manner) might be a better way of helping this girl, reminding her of her tears, ...instead of just BOOTING her out into the street where she can easily find DEATH and DESTRUCTION from her habits... (drugs, protitution, etc.)

Shall we do this with all criminal behavior, Tank?  Ever see the movie "Escape from New York"? It is about isolating the criminals, and killing them if they try to escape... Hey, let's abandon any attempts to rehabilitate SIN, with the LOVE of GOD as our strength, and just create a giant prison, and let the evil ones "eat each other up", or KILL them if necessary! :rolleye:

I think the apostle Paul did not call upon satan but rather simply let his disciple to his own devices and thus by consoquence satan was involved.

Wasn't "satan", ...already "involved"?  The passage -- 1 Cor 5:1-13 speaks of FORNICATION in the midst, which was being IGNORED by the believers, instead of being addressed.  No one was "stepping up to the plate"... instead, they were SILENTLY condoning the "fornication" (a man having his father's wife).

I guess we all look at things differently... but as I see the WORDS of CHRIST -- Matt 5:44-48 -- that note to forgive enemies, and BLESS them, ...means to HELP them, as messengers and ministers of GOD...

It seems an OPPOSITE and SELFISHLY oriented doing --- to adopt a philosphy that kicks OUT the "enemies"... so they don't violate ..."US"...

My  :2c:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Hello willie

I'm suprised you are spending your energy responding to my post in negativity. I personally thought it good advice, which if you read it correctly would mean that it is a challenging situation for the person, because on one hand forgiveness is required and also this woman is clearly in sin, which the scriptures say, do not hang around a brethren who commits such things. I am not the only one here willie who sees this challenging situation, how is being critical towards the person junkbunny or people like me who try to help by quoting scripture for not taking care of this sinfull women helping the situation?
Where are your words of encouragment willie? But as usual your too busy pointing the finger at other people, your edification is more like criticalation.



Sounds to me she enjoys destruction and thrills of stealing etc. I don't think she realizes the danger she is in and is allways high. Maybe you should slap her and wake her up  laughing7

I cannot possibly see what you find as funny about this, Tank...  Sigh

It can be funny, because it is unexpected, it all depends on who is doing the slapping and the situation. I do not condone violence but sometimes a person needs a good slap, woman do this all the time to their sons, husbands, fathers slap their kids and also slap crazy women. I hope your not the type of person who thinks slapping people is evil or even worthy of a jail sentence. Of course there are husbands out there who beat their woman in violence, what could be called slapping, but that it something that only the viewer can behold whether it is truly violent.

But with a thrill seeker like her she probably would sue you for fun.

Wow Tank... pretty harsh and negatively ASSUMING statement!

I'm only showing a possible scenario, that a thrill seeker is more likely to do things like this, which is logical. A destructive person does destructive things.


Someone that is immersed in such behavior needs ABOVE ALL, a friend that is understanding, and that BELIEVES that God shall lead them in ministering to this person, while KEEPING you from the dangers -- Jude 24 --

I agree and I already said that willie. Here it is again

I think its important that you do not let her destroy you, so maybe you should tell her you cannot be friends with her anymore and instead let God be her friend, by praying for her etc and by a miracle maybe she will mend her ways.

How do you percieve that CHRIST was not only motivated to go into the darkness, but was dependent upon the Father to KEEP Him from falling?  Instead recommending one to RUN AWAY from a problem that needs the attendance of the PHYSICIAN?

If we all take such "standoffish" positions concerning sinful behaviors of friends or family, then WHO is left to influence them?  Are not the evildoers, (once YOU abandon them) left to them, as their only company?

Just leave them to DIE?  Where is CHRIST in this recommendation?

I see your point and that's why I said its a challenging situation. But don't you see that the sins of this woman could destroy junkbunny? So not only is the woman destroyed but  junkbunny is destroyed also. That's why the scriptures says to not be yoked with an unbeliver, the sins of another person can infect the beliver and drag them down with them. The power of sin is strong willie, and we as saints are not perfect and neither are we invincible, the sins can bring us down. If you don't think that the sins of the woman are not powerful, then consider this, those that have ears to hear, this womans sins are

1. Excessive spending, thrill seeking
2. Stealing
3. prostitution
4. possible drug usage

Now take a look at the username of the saint. Junkbunny?

So you see the poison has already affected the mind of the christian sister here, that he comes to a christian forum and calls himself junkbunny.

Junk, self explanatory - bunny- we all know what that can incline towards

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your words, for I know you are just expressing concern for this sinful woman which is good and right.


Interestingly that you bring the film up, because you have not mentioned a film before, since I have been here. So last night I watched a film called kiss of the dragon with kung fu star Jet li , in this movie he befriends a prostitute, and finds out that this woman is working for criminal gangsters who recruit women to work for them or they use violence, the main boss is actually a policeman and uses his police force to try and kill jet li. I bring this up because God is spirit, works in mysterious ways of synchronization and there might be a connection, that I watched this film that features a prostitute and you bring this post up that mentions a film for the first time.
Anyway as the brethren and sisters have mentioned here, that the best advice is to pray and see what God would have them do. Kicking them out is an option I'm affraid to say willie and is scriptural but also it is an option to keep them in the house and give them time to change, but ultimately only God knows the best course of action for this person called junkbunny.


The devil posts have been addressed many times before, it seems scriptures is not enough you need a revelation from the holy spirit, to help you on this subject.

May the lord Jesus bless you for at least having a concerned heart for the woman in question, even though you should have directed that concern towards helping junkbunny and not wasting it towards criticizing the good advice of the brethren. But maybe this was Gods will, so that the film idea popped up and might speak to junkbunny.

[Lefein]

Thinktank, do not be discouraged, you gave healthy, and wise advice.

Heed not the argumentative natures of those who argue for thrill.  May God bless you for being practical, and being a vessel by which The Holy Spirit, God himself may bless another - and change the life of another for the better.

God says to turn the other cheek, but he does not say for us to willingly be bad stewards of our lives by letting ourselves be abused, or walked all over for no good reason.  We won't be harmed if we drink poison...but that is not a license to go out and take a good swig of it.

The proverbs say do not go into the harlots house, and it is better to live on the corner of the roof than to live with an argumentative wife; that could be applied to friends as well.

Don't let the harlot into your own home (if she refuses to get better), and its better to live on the corner of town, than to live downtown with a "friend" who mistreats you.

[Nathan]

But what is the real reason for kicking her out?  What if I am the only Jesus she'll ever have the experience of seeing?  If "I" kick her out, who's left out there to help her get better?  No one's saying you should ignore her issues.  Perhaps God is looking for someone what a heart bigger than her addictions that can console her and give her some sound wisdom and warnings about bad things that are result of bad decisions and let her know that regardless of how ugly she is, how much she smells, she's got a friend that truly cares and wants to be a part of the solution to getting her out of her hell.

But if I just kick her out for fear of her tainting me . . .really?  Am I so fragile with Christ in me that I can't be around sinful people anymore?  Doing the right thing here is more than likely going to be doing the harder thing.  Kicking her out is just too easy.

[Lefein]

We aren't saying to just kick her out, atleast I am not.  But I am saying that she should not feel obligated under a spirit of guilt to take care of her if she can't - just because she is a daughter of Christ.

She needs to pray about it, that is a given.  If God does not give her the grace to continue, or if God does not show her that she is making progress...she needs to shake the dust from her feet.

She may be a Christian, but she is finite, even the eyes of Faith need to see results.  If these results do not come, and God does not tell her to keep waiting, or watching - then it is a work of the flesh to try and maintain this girl, which might even be enabling.

If it is a work of the Spirit, she'll see results, if it is the efforts of the flesh under guilt (after a time of watching, and expecting, and serving, and praying - and seeing no results) then she needs to stop, because it is in vain.

That being said: Junkbunny;

Pray, watch, serve, wait, expect, ask for results, ask for discernment, ask for God's grace, and ask for God's will.

[Quaesitor]

TT:

The devil posts have been addressed many times before, it seems scriptures is not enough you need a revelation from the holy spirit, to help you on this subject.

I've read nearly everything written about satan and demons in this forum and quite frankly you should heed your own advice.

Junkbunny:
My opinion is that you should follow sister Card's advice and ask YOUR Lord about what do to about His daughter. If you ask in His name/nature/love, He'll answer, He promised.

[Nathan]

Lefein you stated
She may be a Christian, but she is finite, even the eyes of Faith need to see results

I can't receive your premise here because if faith requires proof, then it's not faith at all.  Faith is seeing what isn't there as though it is.  It doesn't come back and question whether or not it did or didn't.  Our minds do that, but not faith.

All though I do aggree with your opening remark in that if she isn't equipped then by all means don't try to go through with it.  Yet at the same time, if we find ourselves "in" the situation already, then rather than looking for an exit, perhaps it'd be better to realize that we've already been equipped, our head just wasn't aware of it.  Does not Scripture state that God turns things originally headed toward destruction, and he reverses them into "con"struction? 

That which was originally going to tear us down can become the very thing that builds us up.  A sheep is lost . . .who is willing to reach out and bring it in?

[Lefein]

If I'm believing God for this month's rent - I need this month's rent, not a sermon.

If that makes any sense for explaining the eyes of faith needing to see results.

Or a closer to home sort of thing in my case - I see a virgin, innocent, beautiful, blue eyed girl as my Helper - I see her with eyes of faith because I don't yet see her with eyes of sight.  But I can't spend all of my life chasing the horizon with eyes of faith - I need to see results of the day of our meeting in sight coming closer, and closer, until Faith becomes Sight.

Hence; Faith needs to see results, not proof, because I don't have proof that the rent will come, neither do I have proof that the girl will appear.  But results are not proof, they are the visible goal of an invisible journey.

Just to clarify that ^_^

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tank...  :happygrin:

Your responses are in red below...

Hello willie

I'm suprised you are spending your energy responding to my post in negativity. I personally thought it good advice, which if you read it correctly would mean that it is a challenging situation for the person, because on one hand forgiveness is required and also this woman is clearly in sin, which the scriptures say, do not hang around a brethren who commits such things. I am not the only one here willie who sees this challenging situation, how is being critical towards the person junkbunny or people like me who try to help by quoting scripture for not taking care of this sinfull women helping the situation?

Where are your words of encouragment willie? But as usual your too busy pointing the finger at other people, your edification is more like criticalation.

FIRST --- Obviously you didn't read (or asborb what I said in) the post... I encouraged staying BY her friend, and drawing off the strength of the Lord, as opposed to ABANDONING her and "leaving her to the Lord"... wherein is the ministry, if that is done, Tank?

If we wish to be ministers, we do not run from challenges which might occur within family and/or friends...

SECOND --- I didn't point any fingers... I spoke of the situation as I saw it, and noted what I see as descrepancies in your advice to Junkbunny.

THIRD --- to name the woman SINFUL as if YOU are not is a short sight on your part, bro -- 1 John 1:8

TANK --- Sounds to me she enjoys destruction and thrills of stealing etc. I don't think she realizes the danger she is in and is allways high. Maybe you should slap her and wake her up   :laughing7:

I cannot possibly see what you find as funny about this, Tank...  :sigh:

It can be funny, because it is unexpected, it all depends on who is doing the slapping and the situation. I do not condone violence but sometimes a person needs a good slap, woman do this all the time to their sons, husbands, fathers slap their kids and also slap crazy women. I hope your not the type of person who thinks slapping people is evil or even worthy of a jail sentence. Of course there are husbands out there who beat their woman in violence, what could be called slapping, but that it something that only the viewer can behold whether it is truly violent.

:omg: Physical assault (slapping) on another adult (or child) IS a crime... and is NEVER funny.  Your supporter (which has named your advice as good) has encouraged your advice which is BY LAW, assault... therefore you BOTH encourage Junkbunny to partake in a CRIMINAL activity...  :thumbdown:

But with a thrill seeker like her she probably would sue you for fun.

Wow Tank... pretty harsh and negatively ASSUMING statement!

TANK --- I'm only showing a possible scenario, that a thrill seeker is more likely to do things like this, which is logical. A destructive person does destructive things.

What is "fun" about a lawsuit, TANK?  And is it not ASSUMING to belittle this person (Junkbunnys friend) whom YOU DO NOT KNOW... further?

Someone that is immersed in such behavior needs ABOVE ALL, a friend that is understanding, and that BELIEVES that God shall lead them in ministering to this person, while KEEPING you from the dangers -- Jude 24

TANK: I agree and I already said that willie. Here it is again

I think its important that you do not let her destroy you, so maybe you should tell her you cannot be friends with her anymore and instead let God be her friend, by praying for her etc and by a miracle maybe she will mend her ways.

How is telling this person that she cannot be a friend any longer a POSITIVE suggestion, Tank?

Suggesting that Junkbunny abandon her (in the "spirit" of not being --- her brothers keeper?  :rolleye:)

How do you percieve that CHRIST was not only motivated to go into the darkness, but was dependent upon the Father to KEEP Him from falling?  Instead recommending one to RUN AWAY from a problem that needs the attendance of the PHYSICIAN?

If we all take such "standoffish" positions concerning sinful behaviors of friends or family, then WHO is left to influence them?  Are not the evildoers, (once YOU abandon them) left to them, as their only company?

Just leave them to DIE?  Where is CHRIST in this recommendation?

TANK: I see your point and that's why I said its a challenging situation. But don't you see that the sins of this woman could destroy junkbunny?

Not if Junkbunny is entering, as did CHRIST, with faith in the protection of the Father, as an instrument of HIS, in His hand, which embarks upon bringing HEALING to this tormented womens life!

The Scripture notes: 

Phil 4:13 -- I can do ALL THINGS through CHRIST who strengtheneth me

TANK:  So not only is the woman destroyed but  junkbunny is destroyed also. That's why the scriptures says to not be yoked with an unbeliver, the sins of another person can infect the beliver and drag them down with them.

This is speaking of quarreling with an unbeliever... the word "yoked" in 2 Cor 6:14 means "discordant"/at variance.

In saying this, you portray EVIL as greater in power when confronted with GOODNESS... that instead of the GOOD prevailing, that the bearer of it, shall instead be DRAGGED DOWN into the evil...  :mshock:  Where is FAITH exercised in this?  :dontknow:

If this were so, than many if not ALL missionairies in the world are carelessly endangering themselves as they heed the advice given them by CHRIST to go into the "hedges and highways" as did He...

Luke 14:16-24 -- The supposed "hearers" of Him didn't have time to "eat the supper" of GOD, ...so CHRIST said to go proclaim it to those into the STREETS and LANES of the CITY, and invite the (spiritually) LAME, BLIND and HALT to the supper (which is the "eating" of TRUTH, the bread of LIFE)...

TANK: The power of sin is strong willie, and we as saints are not perfect and neither are we invincible, the sins can bring us down.

And the power of GOOD cannot equally and MORE, ...exalt and LIFT the one who is immersed in evil, FROM IT?  We, if indeed we are "saints" shall be about sharing the TRUTH with ANY which will hear it... not run from the power of EVIL.

TANK:  If you don't think that the sins of the woman are not powerful, then consider this, those that have ears to hear, this womans sins are

1. Excessive spending, thrill seeking
2. Stealing
3. prostitution
4. possible drug usage

FIRST --- Yes... those that have EARS to hear... may they "hear" the truth within this interaction... not the proclamation of any which either subliminally or blatantly, self-proclaims their view as being such...

SECOND --- You are ridden with FEARING evil, instead of recieving from on HIGH, the power which is greater.  These problems (though formidable if we fight them of ourselves) have no power at all in comparison to that which is ABOVE.

THIRD --- If all counselors took your position, there would be no rehab from these problems for ANYONE entraped in them, at all!!  ...Instead you would WEAKLY abandon the HELPLESS, to their mischoosings, with no FAITH in the power you claim to represent... Had CHRIST took that position with you... you might well be numbered WITH THESE yourself.

TANK:Now take a look at the username of the saint. Junkbunny?

So you see the poison has already affected the mind of the christian sister here, that he comes to a christian forum and calls himself junkbunny.

Junk, self explanatory - bunny- we all know what that can incline towards

:omg: Now you have (without any information or witness) deduced our sister Junkbunny, ...as "Junk" (self explanatory) and concluded that she is also already overcome in this situation , noting "Bunny" means "incline towards"...  :sigh:

TANK:  I'm not going to respond to the rest of your words, for I know you are just expressing concern for this sinful woman which is good and right.

This is true... I am concerned about everyone which is dealing with evil in their lives...  :cloud9:

TANK: Interestingly that you bring the film up, because you have not mentioned a film before, since I have been here. So last night I watched a film called kiss of the dragon with kung fu star Jet li , in this movie he befriends a prostitute, and finds out that this woman is working for criminal gangsters who recruit women to work for them or they use violence, the main boss is actually a policeman and uses his police force to try and kill jet li. I bring this up because God is spirit, works in mysterious ways of synchronization and there might be a connection, that I watched this film that features a prostitute and you bring this post up that mentions a film for the first time.
Anyway as the brethren and sisters have mentioned here, that the best advice is to pray and see what God would have them do. Kicking them out is an option I'm affraid to say willie and is scriptural but also it is an option to keep them in the house and give them time to change, but ultimately only God knows the best course of action for this person called junkbunny.

I agree with most of what you have said in these words, except for "kicking out" the sinner... We are to be working the LEAVEN out of one another, by the encouragements of the GREATER POWER, not running from the varying diseases which plague men... or abandoning those amidst those plagues...

Anyone reading the NT accounts of CHRIST will see Him continually amidst the drunks, thieves, prostitutes, etc (and being criticized for being amongst them by the "religious" leaders)... for as He Himself noted to those "religious leaders"... Only the "sick" (that are aware of and are, presently overcome of their plight), ...NEED, ...the PHYSICIAN -- Mark 2:16-17 -- Luke 5:30-31 --  The "religious" which esteem themselves apart from this conditin are thereby, left to themselves, and to the deceptions which hold them as unspiritual, and empty of compassion... failing to KNOW ...their own ...NEED.

TANK:  The devil posts have been addressed many times before, it seems scriptures is not enough you need a revelation from the holy spirit, to help you on this subject.

It is not you place to tell me of my "needs"... and the only thing WITH WHICH, you can make such determinations --- is by employing your own potentially fallible beliefs, as the measure of mine.

As far as I am concerned, I long ago was revealed by the Holy Spirit, as to what the "devil" is an IS NOT...  :dontknow:

TANK:  May the lord Jesus bless you for at least having a concerned heart for the woman in question, even though you should have directed that concern towards helping junkbunny and not wasting it towards criticizing the good advice of the brethren.

Thanks for this good wish, brother... but it remains my position that your advice and the advice of a few others in this thread can hardly be considered as "good"... when you advise SLAPPING of another and such... and in your conjectures, determine our sister Junkbunny... as JUNK and BUNNY, defining and determining "bunny" as "inclined" toward "whatever" negatives your mind engages...

TANK: But maybe this was Gods will, so that the film idea popped up and might speak to junkbunny.

God in His way, uses all things and IS WORKING ALL THINGS (good or evil) -- Eph 1:11 -- (often in a way beyond our ability to behold as in the case of Pharaoh which lifted the name YHVH by his deeds of evil -- Rom 9:10)... to conclude in LOVE and COMPLETENESS... (perfection)

May His WORDS speak to YOU and I, ...as well as help our sister Junkbunny AND her friend...  :grouppray:

:Peace: Tank...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother N... :hithere:

But what is the real reason for kicking her out?  What if I am the only Jesus she'll ever have the experience of seeing?  If "I" kick her out, who's left out there to help her get better?  No one's saying you should ignore her issues.  Perhaps God is looking for someone what a heart bigger than her addictions that can console her and give her some sound wisdom and warnings about bad things that are result of bad decisions and let her know that regardless of how ugly she is, how much she smells, she's got a friend that truly cares and wants to be a part of the solution to getting her out of her hell.

But if I just kick her out for fear of her tainting me . . .really?  Am I so fragile with Christ in me that I can't be around sinful people anymore?  Doing the right thing here is more than likely going to be doing the harder thing.  Kicking her out is just too easy.

SEVEN thumbs up!  :thumbsup: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: me bratha!  :afFro:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Lefein]

Good grief, another fight.

Glory to the God of Peace, and blessed are the Peacemakers.

[thinktank]

Lefein you stated
She may be a Christian, but she is finite, even the eyes of Faith need to see results

I can't receive your premise here because if faith requires proof, then it's not faith at all.  Faith is seeing what isn't there as though it is.  It doesn't come back and question whether or not it did or didn't.  Our minds do that, but not faith.

All though I do aggree with your opening remark in that if she isn't equipped then by all means don't try to go through with it.  Yet at the same time, if we find ourselves "in" the situation already, then rather than looking for an exit, perhaps it'd be better to realize that we've already been equipped, our head just wasn't aware of it.  Does not Scripture state that God turns things originally headed toward destruction, and he reverses them into "con"struction? 

That which was originally going to tear us down can become the very thing that builds us up.  A sheep is lost . . .who is willing to reach out and bring it in?

I'm not talking about junkbunny here, but just strategy in general. Do you think it's wise to spend all ones time energy and resources on someone who is not showing any sings of improvment? would it not make more sense to spend that time and energy on people who are willing and open to receive good seed and then produce fruit?

Because Christ cursed the fig tree, because it refused to grow fruit.

To me I think its worthwhile to spend time and energy on people that you love but on people that you dont have much love for you don't have the stamina to continue helping them and might be wasting our time one them. You might say we are called to love all people, I agree with that, but I'm looking at things from a strategic viewpoint, that it would be better to help 3 people make lasting changes in only 2 years rather than struggle with just one person for 10 years who is not making any changes.

There are tings I do not like about this strategy

But what do you think?

[Lefein]

Indeed Thinktank; we must be good stewards with our resources.  That includes our time, and effort.

[Nathan]

I think this may be my last response again as on the other thread with Lefein, it's getting nowhere to argue with people's minds who refuse to accept any other point of view other than their own. 

But the whole point here is for the good of BOTH parties involved.  You say you're not referring to junkbunny, which I thought was why we were responding on this particular thread.  For me, I "was" responding to her situation by stating that if she's not equipped to deal with the other person, then God would not have arranged it.  However, if she doesn't feel like she "can" be of any good and wants out, then that's up to her with no condemnation on my part.

but because she's asking for advice, that indicates she's unsure and so that's where we come in . . .to share our point of views so hopefully, somewhere someone says something that can encourage her and give her strength in seeing what it is she needs to do next.

so . . ."who's" time are we talking about then?  "our" time and "our" effort . . . That still sounds like we're looking out for #1 here.  Even though to my understanding, the nature of the Father is to put others before ourselves.

Is this all about me seeing results in another person?  Or is this about simply living out life in obedience to the voice of the Father speaking within me?  Paul stated that one plants, another comes along and waters . . there's no mention of the first one who planted is still their waiting for evidence that he didn't waste his time or seeds.

Now if you are saying . . .no matter what she does, the other person rejects everything she tries and says and still thinks they have the right to force themselves into her home, in that case then I think she needs to set down with them and realign some priorities in the home.

For me, the bottom line for any of this is, if someone is into something that I either don't know how, or can't be the way to give them a hand up, prayer is the most powerful weapon we have at our disposal.