Upcoming Judgement of God for America and the World...

[SPOKENFOR]

I wanted to ask what do you all have to say about the upcoming Judgments of God on earth. Do you believe we are entering the most worst days on earth yet and also the best days in some ways? I seriously do. I believe some serious things are right around the corner for this country and will spread out to the rest of the world eventually at some point. Opinions? Comments?

[firstborn888]

I believe there are good days ahead since Jesus already has all power in heaven and earth.

I don't believe God is in the wrath business anymore, since the Gahenna judgement was accomplished in 70ad.

Have you ever studied preterism?

It's quite a shift from the modern 'end times' teaching, but you may find the points interesting.  :Sparkletooth:

[Raggedy Anne]

Hi Spokenfor -

Everything depends on perspective. 

From the heavenly view (we are seated with Christ in heavenly places) - the future is bright.   

But from the earthly view (whatever part of us that has not overcome) - the future is a refiner's fire.

I don't believe the wrath of God is all passed away yet.  But I have no desire to twist anyone's mind to my way of believing.

I think Armageddon is yet to come.  Possibly nuclear war and the end of all flesh.  But I know many UR believers who don't
believe that at all. 

In Matthew 24 Jesus answered very frankly about how history would play out and how the end of the world would be. 
I believe there will be a certain end to TIME.  The earth will be cleansed with fire according to the scriptures.
It is pretty obvious to me that conditions on earth are not getting better.  I simply accept this as God's plan. 

Nice to meet you -
Anne

[Texas Son]

I believe there are good days ahead since Jesus already has all power in heaven and earth.

I don't believe God is in the wrath business anymore, since the Gahenna judgement was accomplished in 70ad.

Have you ever studied preterism?

It's quite a shift from the modern 'end times' teaching, but you may find the points interesting.  :Sparkletooth:

:thumbsup:

[SPOKENFOR]

I believe there are good days ahead since Jesus already has all power in heaven and earth.

I don't believe God is in the wrath business anymore, since the Gahenna judgement was accomplished in 70ad.

Have you ever studied preterism?

It's quite a shift from the modern 'end times' teaching, but you may find the points interesting.  :Sparkletooth:

Hiya! I also believe that good days are head as well as some rough days for those who do not know the Lord. I do not see judgment as something that is bad at all...Will be back later to talk of more...

[SPOKENFOR]

Hi Spokenfor -

Everything depends on perspective. 

From the heavenly view (we are seated with Christ in heavenly places) - the future is bright.  

But from the earthly view (whatever part of us that has not overcome) - the future is a refiner's fire.

I don't believe the wrath of God is all passed away yet.  But I have no desire to twist anyone's mind to my way of believing.

I think Armageddon is yet to come.  Possibly nuclear war and the end of all flesh.  But I know many UR believers who don't
believe that at all. 

In Matthew 24 Jesus answered very frankly about how history would play out and how the end of the world would be. 
I believe there will be a certain end to TIME.  The earth will be cleansed with fire according to the scriptures.
It is pretty obvious to me that conditions on earth are not getting better.  I simply accept this as God's plan. 

Nice to meet you -
Anne

Hi Anne..Nice to meet you too sister. :Sparkletooth:

This is my perspective as well. I feel that we are nearing the days when Jesus said it will be bad for women with children, etc..and Matthew 24 is on the rise.

I can remember a time just last year to be exact, I did not want to except that anything horrific would happen on earth. The past few months I feel a sensing that the Lord does not want me to be caught ignorant and unaware of the times we are living in.

I have no fear because my trust is in Christ alone and I know that there will be protection and shelter for us. I feel the best and worst of times on earth to date are surely around the corner..And as it was in the days of Noah, shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.

I don't see this about the wrath of God at all, but that sin is full grown and that we must enter into the Kingdom of God through much tribulation as well. I feel it is things God already planned to be and it will be. The time is here for God to cleanse the "Church" first. I feel the time is here and many will be caught off guard very soon.

[SQ]

I look around and there are so many things that disturb me.
Crime seems to be really worse than ever, when I was young I could play for hours and mom take a peak out the window and know I was fine.
It seems children are targets and that is disturbing.
My neighbor said she believed God was taking many of the children now to save them from what is coming upon the world, that bothered me too.
I have no clue why she said this but a part of me said maybe but then I said no it surely is not true.
I do feel hard times are ahead for some, maybe all.

[SPOKENFOR]

I look around and there are so many things that disturb me.
Crime seems to be really worse than ever, when I was young I could play for hours and mom take a peak out the window and know I was fine.
It seems children are targets and that is disturbing.
My neighbor said she believed God was taking many of the children now to save them from what is coming upon the world, that bothered me too.
I have no clue why she said this but a part of me said maybe but then I said no it surely is not true.
I do feel hard times are ahead for some, maybe all.

I can so relate to you. I have noticed the past 2 years have been the worse as far as being disturbed, words do not describe. I know many people do not want to talk about it or believe it, but it true. There are things going on that must come to an end. I believe the Lord is saying enough is enough.  I wanted to bring this subject up because I feel lead to. God does not want his people ignorant. I believe that he also knows the TIME that someone is able to handle certain things and truths as well, as it was in my case regarding this topic.

I know the Lord is not wanting us to be caught guard. But, I also know that the earth can not go on like this anymore. I feel the shifting in the spiritual realm. I am at peace though, peace beyond my understanding..I love nothing in this world, God has taken it out of me, I only want to do the will of God...and continue to enter into the Kingdom through whatever I must. Times are changing and to that I say, "Hallelujah"!!!

[SPOKENFOR]

We are about to enter a wilderness period on this earth like never before Church. Where God will strip us from the love and things of this world. God is already preparing "Moses" like people to lead many people through this wilderness. I believe we are about to go back to the people of God meeting in homes and the end of church as usual is coming to an end. We will have to meet where ever we can and learn to walk by faith and the leading of God as never before. The best and worse of times are here and coming. I believe Jesus is about to show up in his people as never before. I believe he is coming to his PEOPLE, not for them yet. As the earth moans for the sons of God to be brought forth, we must continue in tribulation until we are full grown in Christ.

I feel strongly to write these words and will only speak what I know the Lord is saying to me. I have no hidden agendas or motives except to please God. I pray we all put our trust in God alone and leave the love of this world and all in it behind, for it is passing away. The trials and tribulations we have faced have not been for nought, only preparation and for our good.

Love you all..

[firstborn888]

I believe Jesus is about to show up in his people as never before.

I absolutely agree with this SF!

I wish there was more time to discuss. What the Bible describes as 'world' (kosmos) refers to an order or 'system', not to the earth or the 'world' as we see it in modern English. The target of Jesus' wrath was a religious system which blocked the way into the kingdom. That's why the pharisees were called children of 'Gahenna' and children of the 'devil'.

Church as we know it must be left behind - no doubt. Look at Jesus' lifestyle. He did not hang out with religious folks - quite the opposite.

To leave the 'world' behind means to leave the concept of self preservation and to lay down our lives for one another - it really is that simple. Self preservation at the expense of all others is the way of the beast, the way of carnality, the way of the flesh, the antichrist.

It's hard to leave behind the concept of God supernaturally swooping down to fix everything but the bottom line is that we have the keys to the kingdom now and the kingdom is given to those who bring forth the fruit of peace sown in love. We cannot abnegate our responsibility to establish the kingdom in our own sphere of influence. NOT in our religious systems but with just everyday real people (they are all God's people "The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein").  With enough single drops of water a mighty river can flood the earth with the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea floor.

I really reject the notion that we just basically need to brace ourselves for a horribly painful fate to unfold. The path of the just is as a shining light which burns brighter and brighter until the full noonday. The meek will inherit the earth - we're not going anywhere. All the works of God are put in subjection to mankind, and through the chief cornerstone the old 'world' (system) is being destroyed.

[WhiteWings]

I look around and there are so many things that disturb me.

But are the changes real or just in your mind?
Perhaps a reversed: Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

News travels faster and faster. In the time of Jesus you heard something that happend in another town from a occasional traveller. But now just goto some news site and read about something that happened 1 hour ago 2000 miles away.
That way it looks like there is more crime. But in reality the news has become more effective.

That said: Surely there are lots of very sick things taking place around us.

[SPOKENFOR]

I believe Jesus is about to show up in his people as never before.

I absolutely agree with this SF!

I wish there was more time to discuss. What the Bible describes as 'world' (kosmos) refers to an order or 'system', not to the earth or the 'world' as we see it in modern English. The target of Jesus' wrath was a religious system which blocked the way into the kingdom. That's why the pharisees were called children of 'Gahenna' and children of the 'devil'.

Church as we know it must be left behind - no doubt. Look at Jesus' lifestyle. He did not hang out with religious folks - quite the opposite.

To leave the 'world' behind means to leave the concept of self preservation and to lay down our lives for one another - it really is that simple. Self preservation at the expense of all others is the way of the beast, the way of carnality, the way of the flesh, the antichrist.

It's hard to leave behind the concept of God supernaturally swooping down to fix everything but the bottom line is that we have the keys to the kingdom now and the kingdom is given to those who bring forth the fruit of peace sown in love. We cannot abnegate our responsibility to establish the kingdom in our own sphere of influence. NOT in our religious systems but with just everyday real people (they are all God's people "The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein").  With enough single drops of water a mighty river can flood the earth with the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea floor.

I really reject the notion that we just basically need to brace ourselves for a horribly painful fate to unfold. The path of the just is as a shining light which burns brighter and brighter until the full noonday. The meek will inherit the earth - we're not going anywhere. All the works of God are put in subjection to mankind, and through the chief cornerstone the old 'world' (system) is being destroyed.

Thank you for your response Brother. I am in agreement with you in many ways.

I do not mean to sound like we need to BRACE ourselves, but at the same time we need to be aware of the times we are living in. Like I said, it will be horrible for some, I do not believe it will be for all of us. But, I still believe we will experience a period of learning to lean on God in a way we do not right now..and I believe a lot of things are going to come as a surprise. I can not ignore the scriptures or what I really feel the Lord is saying. It is still perspective in many ways and how you look at it. I know many do not want to hear anything like this, I surely did not for a while, but I have to accept that fact that their are some troublesome days ahead.

If we are in Christ and all our trust is in him, there is absolutely nothing to fear. All is well and good either way.

[SPOKENFOR]

I look around and there are so many things that disturb me.

But are the changes real or just in your mind?
Perhaps a reversed: Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

News travels faster and faster. In the time of Jesus you heard something that happend in another town from a occasional traveller. But now just goto some news site and read about something that happened 1 hour ago 2000 miles away.
That way it looks like there is more crime. But in reality the news has become more effective.

That said: Surely there are lots of very sick things taking place around us.

No, I do not believe it is just in my mind. It is far deeper than I can even put in words. It goes beyond crime, it goes beyond the media.

[Molly]

Everything we see unfolding  is part of plan whose beginnings were implemented by mortal men years ago.  If you are able to see the plan, then it is not a surprise when it unfolds.  Does an architect build a building without first drawing out the blueprint?  If you want to see the building before it is built, look at the blueprint.

But everyone seems surprised.  They are not paying attention.  It's important to pay attention.

Satan is still deceiving the world so that he can control everything and enslave everyone.  Man is still allowing it. But, one day man will no longer allow it as his consciousness will have risen to the level of Christ.  And, then we will see heaven on earth--because that is what God intends.







John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

[martincisneros]

Only problem with your perspective on plans, Molly, is that there's lots of fish in the sea with agendas and it's probably not quite as clear as you might think on which is the biggest fish in the sea with the biggest growling stomach right now.

[Redlettervoice]

.

Paul I think it was wrote: "Ye know not what a day brings forth."

I don't think I do.

Joel wrote: WHO knows whether He will leave a blessing or no?

I don't think I do.

Not about myself or the nation or the world.

I've got to where I don't think I know nothing! ha

But this one thing, I do know.........that this Spirit in us is

indestructible, and He said He'd never leave nor forsake us.

That I "do" believe.

[firstborn888]

.

Paul I think it was wrote: "Ye know not what a day brings forth."

Or Prov. 27:1 "Do not boast about tomorrow, For you do not know what a day may bring forth".

I don't think I do.

Joel wrote: WHO knows whether He will leave a blessing or no?

I don't think I do.

Not about myself or the nation or the world.

I've got to where I don't think I know nothing! ha

But this one thing, I do know.........that this Spirit in us is

indestructible, and He said He'd never leave nor forsake us.

That I "do" believe.

Some wise words there!

I will add though that when you have millions upon millions of folks (ie: end time doomsday believers) assuming the worst then that is a recipe for trouble. I'm not addressing the OP or necessarily anyone here in particular - but just as a general rant against the widespread picture (which many preachers paint) of God poised with vials of wrath and destruction to pour out upon all the masses of sinners. I don't believe that is the reality of our present situation.

From the beginning all the prophets have cried out against abuse, oppression and injustice. You will find that all judgement and 'hell' (Gahenna) references have to do with works ("I was sick and you did not visit me" etc) and oppression ("woe unto you - hypocrites - you lay upon men's shoulders heavy burdens - grievous to be borne") and are against the systems which (systematically) give power to oppress. If we do those things within our power to break oppression and stop abuse and to teach love of God and neighbor then the results are very very predictable. 

RLV - the point you make is a brilliant step, but it's also a given, you have grasped a static unchangeable truth. But what about the here and now? I am very very interested in seeing transformation in the here and now. Do you think my desire concerning this is misplaced?

[firstborn888]

Satan is still deceiving the world so that he can control everything and enslave everyone.  Man is still allowing it.

Are you as impressed as I at the present defiance against oppression by some of the populace in Iran?

[Shadow]

Some wise words there!

I will add though that when you have millions upon millions of folks (ie: end time doomsday believers) assuming the worst then that is a recipe for trouble. I'm not addressing the OP or necessarily anyone here in particular - but just as a general rant against the widespread picture (which many preachers paint) of God poised with vials of wrath and destruction to pour out upon all the masses of sinners. I don't believe that is the reality of our present situation.

From the beginning all the prophets have cried out against abuse, oppression and injustice. You will find that all judgement and 'hell' (Gahenna) references have to do with works ("I was sick and you did not visit me" etc) and oppression ("woe unto you - hypocrites - you lay upon men's shoulders heavy burdens - grievous to be borne") and are against the systems which (systematically) give power to oppress. If we do those things within our power to break oppression and stop abuse and to teach love of God and neighbor then the results are very very predictable. 

RLV - the point you make is a brilliant step, but it's also a given, you have grasped a static unchangeable truth. But what about the here and now? I am very very interested in seeing transformation in the here and now. Do you think my desire concerning this is misplaced?

I can't think of a heavier burden to be laid on mankinds shoulders than the ET doctrine, and the lame arguments used to defend it, to me personally it's utterly indefensible and I could never defend it again

To me personally it's more burdensome than anything I have, or could possibly face in this lifetime

[Molly]

Satan is still deceiving the world so that he can control everything and enslave everyone.  Man is still allowing it.

Are you as impressed as I at the present defiance against oppression by some of the populace in Iran?

I was amazed but then I realized, why not?  God is doing a work among the young people of the world.  I have already observed this in many places around the world'.  How inspiring it is to see the streets of a dictatorship filled with young people yelling, 'Liberty!'  God bless them.

And, then, it did my heart good to see our own leader have to acknowledge their right to do so, even though he tried to confine our own young people, as well as our military heros, to that abomination called 'Free Speech Zones" at his own political convention last year.  That didn't work either, rofl.

"The president added, however, that he is "deeply troubled by the violence I have been seeing on television. I think that the, the democratic process, free speech, the ability for people to peacefully dissent, all those are universal values and need to be respected.""

So--we will see-- :gangel:



Eze 37

5Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

[Redlettervoice]

.

Paul I think it was wrote: "Ye know not what a day brings forth."

Or Prov. 27:1 "Do not boast about tomorrow, For you do not know what a day may bring forth".

I don't think I do.

Joel wrote: WHO knows whether He will leave a blessing or no?

I don't think I do.

Not about myself or the nation or the world.

I've got to where I don't think I know nothing! ha

But this one thing, I do know.........that this Spirit in us is

indestructible, and He said He'd never leave nor forsake us.

That I "do" believe.

Some wise words there!

I will add though that when you have millions upon millions of folks (ie: end time doomsday believers) assuming the worst then that is a recipe for trouble. I'm not addressing the OP or necessarily anyone here in particular - but just as a general rant against the widespread picture (which many preachers paint) of God poised with vials of wrath and destruction to pour out upon all the masses of sinners. I don't believe that is the reality of our present situation.

From the beginning all the prophets have cried out against abuse, oppression and injustice. You will find that all judgement and 'hell' (Gahenna) references have to do with works ("I was sick and you did not visit me" etc) and oppression ("woe unto you - hypocrites - you lay upon men's shoulders heavy burdens - grievous to be borne") and are against the systems which (systematically) give power to oppress. If we do those things within our power to break oppression and stop abuse and to teach love of God and neighbor then the results are very very predictable. 

RLV - the point you make is a brilliant step, but it's also a given, you have grasped a static unchangeable truth. But what about the here and now? I am very very interested in seeing transformation in the here and now. Do you think my desire concerning this is misplaced?

Absolutely not!!! I am a full believer in allowing "each" person to
do as the Spirit leads "them" w/o question. 

I recently read about a "whirlwind" manifestation of God, and Him
in us........I will try to retrive that and place it here.  It was profound
to me.  If one is in the "whirlwind" how can one part of that "wind"
tell another part of that "wind" swirling every which way, to swirl?
The Lord comes in a whirlwind.......I hope I can find that.

[Redlettervoice]

LOVE IS THE MASTER {of the whirlwind}
Love is the One who masters all things;
I am mastered totally by Love.
By my passion of love for Love
I have ground sweet as sugar.
O furious Wind, I am only a straw before you;
How could I know where I will be blown next?
Whoever claims to have made a pact with Destiny
Reveals himself a liar and a fool;
What is any of us but a straw in a storm?
How could anyone make a pact with a hurricane?
God is working everywhere his massive Resurrection;
How can we pretend to act on our own?
In the hand of Love I am like a cat in a sack;
Sometimes Love hoists me into the air,
Sometimes Love flings me into the air,
Love swings me round and round His head;
I have no peace, in this world or any other.
The lovers of God have fallen in a furious river;
They have surrendered themselves to Love's commands.
Like mill wheels they turn, day and night, day and night,
Constantly turning and turning, and crying out.

Rumi

[Tim B]

Some wise words there!

I will add though that when you have millions upon millions of folks (ie: end time doomsday believers) assuming the worst then that is a recipe for trouble. I'm not addressing the OP or necessarily anyone here in particular - but just as a general rant against the widespread picture (which many preachers paint) of God poised with vials of wrath and destruction to pour out upon all the masses of sinners. I don't believe that is the reality of our present situation.

From the beginning all the prophets have cried out against abuse, oppression and injustice. You will find that all judgement and 'hell' (Gahenna) references have to do with works ("I was sick and you did not visit me" etc) and oppression ("woe unto you - hypocrites - you lay upon men's shoulders heavy burdens - grievous to be borne") and are against the systems which (systematically) give power to oppress. If we do those things within our power to break oppression and stop abuse and to teach love of God and neighbor then the results are very very predictable. 

RLV - the point you make is a brilliant step, but it's also a given, you have grasped a static unchangeable truth. But what about the here and now? I am very very interested in seeing transformation in the here and now. Do you think my desire concerning this is misplaced?

I can't think of a heavier burden to be laid on mankinds shoulders than the ET doctrine, and the lame arguments used to defend it, to me personally it's utterly indefensible and I could never defend it again

To me personally it's more burdensome than anything I have, or could possibly face in this lifetime

Oh yeah man, the ET doctrine is a terrible, terrible burden to bear. It really is honestly indefensible in my opinion, and poisons peoples' minds, destroys peace within man, and nearly, if not literally, makes HELL out of life. It's horrible!  :sigh:

As far as the original topic: I've heard judgement is coming, and it's the end of the world, and the President is the anti-Christ soooo many times that I don't really even worry about it anymore. Certainly I think American is in an ugly state of affairs right now, and it might get pretty bad, but I wouldn't call it God's judgement. At least, not like I used to view God's judgement (as in: God kills people and throws them into Hell). I'd go with the, if anything, overall purification process sort of judgement.

[SQ]

This came to me as I was reading this thread.

Matthew 24:15-25   
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,⼢>But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

I had a couple thoughts about the above  one is it will be so hard to feed clothe and take care of the children during this time, and another thought was people are stealing murdering sexually assaulting the innocent, seems like every day a new case some are found alive some are never found.
I don't want to sound so alarmed that I just let my thoughts go every direction, but does anyone have thoughts about this?

SPOKENFOR what are your thoughts on this on Matthew 24 15-25?
Has this already happened with the destruction of Jersaleum?

[SQ]

Possibly it is not literal?