Upcoming Judgement of God for America and the World...

[firstborn888]

RLV - the point you make is a brilliant step, but it's also a given, you have grasped a static unchangeable truth. But what about the here and now? I am very very interested in seeing transformation in the here and now. Do you think my desire concerning this is misplaced?

Absolutely not!!! I am a full believer in allowing "each" person to
do as the Spirit leads "them" w/o question. 

I recently read about a "whirlwind" manifestation of God, and Him
in us........I will try to retrive that and place it here.  It was profound
to me.  If one is in the "whirlwind" how can one part of that "wind"
tell another part of that "wind" swirling every which way, to swirl?

More wisdom RLV - and I was seriously asking. I will admit it sometime seems tempting to just give up and let things happen - especially when many Christians reject an emphasis on present justice as a 'social gospel' and take the view that since we are headed for armageddon it doesn't matter - just preach to as many as possible before 'the end'.

Then there's the "it's all going to burn anyway" attitude WRT caring for animals and the earth. I am much more at home nowadays backing organizations like http://www.one.org/us/splash/index1.html rather than backing organizations which consume so many resources just to live another day and preach doom and gloom.  :thumbdown:

[firstborn888]

Are you as impressed as I at the present defiance against oppression by some of the populace in Iran?

I was amazed but then I realized, why not?  God is doing a work among the young people of the world.  I have already observed this in many places around the world'.  How inspiring it is to see the streets of a dictatorship filled with young people yelling, 'Liberty!'  God bless them.

And, then, it did my heart good to see our own leader have to acknowledge their right to do so, even though he tried to confine our own young people, as well as our military heros, to that abomination called 'Free Speech Zones" at his own political convention last year.  That didn't work either, rofl.

"The president added, however, that he is "deeply troubled by the violence I have been seeing on television. I think that the, the democratic process, free speech, the ability for people to peacefully dissent, all those are universal values and need to be respected.""

So--we will see-- :gangel:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Molly]

1 out of 8 couples married in the U.S. last year met online

There are over 200 million registered users on MySpace

If MySpace were a country, it would be the 5th largest in the world

There are 31 billion searches on google every month.  In 2006, this number was 2.7 billion


Today, the number of text messages sent and received everyday exceeds the total population of the planet


The number of internet devices in 2008 is 1 billion

There are about 540,000 words in the English language, about 5 times as many as during Shakespeare's time

It is estimated that a week's worth of the New York Times contains more information than a person was likely to come across in a lifetime in the 18th century

It is estimated that 4 exabytes of unique information will be generated this year.  That is more than the previous 5000 years

The amount of new technical information is doubling every 2 years

By 2013, a supercomputer will be built that exceeds the computational capabilities of the human brain

Predictions are that by 2049, a $1000 computer will exceed the computational capabilities of the entire human species

--from 'Did You Know?'  youtube.com


Meanwhile, as  Iran throws all foreign journalists out of the country and arrests their own journalists, the kids keep getting the truth out on twitter and youtube using blackberries and cellphones.


Mousavi is ready for anything...
iranianriots 2:13 am on June 21, 2009 Permalink | Reply

"I am prepared for martyrdom.  Go on strike if I am arrested."

http://iranianriots.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/1489/



"Shine a light and let the whole world see..."

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

[Beloved Servant]

                                                                       Father is sovereign!

[Molly]

Iran rooftop chorus swells in the night

By Borzou Daragahi
June 20, 2009


It starts with two young female voices, quietly at first, almost gently piercing the quiet of the night.

"Allahu akbar!" they cry out a few minutes after 10 p.m. "God is great!"

Then another voice joins in from the other side of the block. This one belongs to an older woman. "God is great!" she responds in a rasp that suggests decades of hardship and swallowed rage. "Allahu akbar!"

After a minute or two, a male voice joins in. It's as if he needed a little time to put on his slippers and clamber to the rooftop.

"Allaaaaahu akbar," he moans.


Within a few minutes a choir of voices erupts.

"Ya, Hossein!" a man with a sturdy baritone announces across the lush trees. "O Hossein!"

"Mir-Hossein!" a group of women shrieks back, every ounce of energy straining through petite voices.

"Marg bar dictator!" a voice erupts. "Death to the dictator!" And then more voices, a cacophony of anonymous anger. "Marg bar dictator. Marg bar dictator."

I have never thought of the quiet, leafy neighborhood where I stay when I'm in Tehran as particularly political. During the daytime, the only sounds are of water streaming through the canal.

My greatest concern has been to skip out of the way of the young guy speeding down the narrow street in his SUV, pop music blaring out his windows.

Until now, the most momentous events have been the rollicking parties some of the neighbors have thrown, which filled the street with cars of merrymakers.

But my opinion started to change after Iran's June 12 presidential election. Supporters of losing candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi called for Iranians who had voted for him to climb to their rooftops between 9 and 11 p.m. and shout "God is great!" to voice their discontent over alleged vote-rigging.

The gesture harks back 30 years to the months before the Islamic Revolution. It was a way to reassure others that they weren't alone in feeling wronged and enraged.

Today it motivates people to attend the peaceful marches that have become the largest acts of civil disobedience in three decades.

On Friday, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's highest spiritual and political authority, laid down the law: There would be no reconsideration of the vote count. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's reelection would stand. No amount of pressure, even the hundreds of thousands marching through the streets, would make him bend. Protesters would continue at their own risk.

As Friday night approaches, I wonder whether Khamenei's prayer sermon will quell the voices.

When 10 p.m. arrives, there is nary a sound except for the wind brushing against the drapes. But then the silhouettes begin to emerge, lithe teens and potbellied men.

"Allahu akbar!" the two young women cry out across the rooftops.

Another voice joins in, and then another, and then another, building to a crescendo.

"Allaaaaahu akbar!" a deep male voice crests.

The voice is beautiful, and easily recognizable as the muezzin from the local mosque.

"Allaaaaahu akbar!" his rich voice echoes through the neighborhood. "Allaaaaahu akbar!"


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-voices20-2009jun20,0,1259143.story

[Doug]

Matthew 24:15-25   
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,⼢>But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

I had a couple thoughts about the above  one is it will be so hard to feed clothe and take care of the children during this time, and another thought was people are stealing murdering sexually assaulting the innocent, seems like every day a new case some are found alive some are never found.
I don't want to sound so alarmed that I just let my thoughts go every direction, but does anyone have thoughts about this?

Jesus was giving a prophecy here, and so the language he used involves symbols and metaphors and parables, and should not be viewed literally. This is generally true of prophecy. So on the question, "who are the ones who are with child, and giving suck?" Notice 1 Peter 2:2, "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" It is those who administer the "word" of God to others, new in the faith, and teachers of the Bible, who "give suck." They need to get it right!

And Paul spoke of himself as "travailing" in birth, with the Galatian Christians. "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you," [Galatians 4:19] This suggests the churches, and denominations, and sects, and cults, where Christians are scattered, and their leaders, are metaphorically the ones who are "with child." So perhaps, in this prophecy of Jesus, his warning was not meant particularly for women and mothers, but for those who teach the Bible, and the basics of the Gospel.

What about the warning about praying that our "flight" may not be in winter, or on the Sabbath? Flight from what? And where to? The prophecy says: "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains." These "mountains," I suggest, are symbolic. They are not literal mountains; Jeremiah said, "Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel." [Jeremiah 3:23]

What do the mountains represent? There is a discussion here.
http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/OP/mop.html

But look at Daniel 2:35, 2:45, and Isaiah 2:2-3. The kingdom of God is called a mountain, and that is what we should seek, and flee to. Mountains represent the promises of God, so we should flee to them.

What about praying that our "flight" may not be in winter? The time of harvest is the fall, and the warning of Jesus was that we should "Watch, ... and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. [Luke 21:36] We should seek to be included in that coming "harvest." To miss out on the harvest, which occurs in the fall, would mean that one would have to flee in the winter, which seems to refer to the judgment. Jesus refers to it as "great tribulation." See Revelation 7:14.

And what about his warning about not fleeing on the sabbath day? Again, the "sabbath" pictures the promised "rest" of the saints, Hebrews 4:9. To miss out on the "harvest," would mean one would have to "flee" on the sabbath day, when the rest of the saints, who were ready, enjoy that rest!

In the parable of the tares,  Jesus said, "Let both grow together until the harvest..." [Matthew 13:30]. The wheat represents those who are included in the harvest, who are gathered into the barn, while the tares are those who miss out on the harvest; the tares are bound in bundles and burnt.

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Doug

[Molly]

Maybe there's a new world order after all--just not the one that satan had in mind?  :icon_king:



Iran Election: Online Support for Dissidents
Protests Get Out on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube Despite Govt. Censorship Efforts
By NED POTTER
June 19, 2009

The revolution, to borrow from the old saying, may not be televised, at least in the way one might expect. But the violence in Iran following last week's election is being tweeted, blogged, streamed and posted on countless Web sites despite government censorship attempts.

Online support for Iranian dissidents has spread around the world, even as Iran's leaders warn of consequences if unrest continues following last week's election.

Twitter users worldwide have changed their home cities to Tehran to provide cover for protesters there who have been trying to get out scraps of information out. Others are configuring their computers to serve as relay points for dissidents trying to communicate online with the outside world. Google and Facebook have rushed out services in Farsi.

The dissidents are staying in touch with the outside world, despite the Iranian government's efforts to stop them.

A Web site called TehranLive posted vivid photographs of protests in the streets there, with commentary in broken English.


"This Web site is banned in Iran by government since three hours ago," said a message on the site, dated Saturday afternoon -- but in its June archives, there's newer material, including embedded videos that had been posted on YouTube.

All this went on despite apparent efforts of the Ahmadinejad government to control online traffic as well as mainstream media reports. The Internet is, by definition, diffuse and hard for even the most determined of governments to shut down entirely.


Governments in many countries have the power to block some sites, either by setting up so-called firewalls or by putting pressure on Internet Service Providers to do the job for them.


"They likely have firewalls up to block certain kinds of illicit network traffic," said Rob Enderle, head of the California-based Enderle Group of technology consultants. "They just block the network addresses at the firewalls and the traffic shouldn't be able to pass easily.

But some members of Twitter pointed people in Iran to "proxy" sites -- alternative Web sites, which could be set up anywhere online, through which messages could be sent. Some set up virtual private networks to go around limits set up by authorities in Iran.


"The problem with going against students is that audience kind of knows how to get around the security the Iranian government will use to block traffic," said Enderle.

,,,,,

ABC's Jim Sciutto, reporting from Tehran, ran into trouble with police when his camera crew shot video with its very visible equipment. But he was able to shoot and send video from his cell phone, talk live on the air, and send messages to his Twitter page.


"We witnessed police spraying pepper gas into the eyes of peaceful female protesters," he said in one tweet.

In another: "Photos show at least 3 people shot and injured. AP photog confirms to ABC he saw one person killed."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7845377&page=1

[SPOKENFOR]

This came to me as I was reading this thread.

Matthew 24:15-25  
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,⼢>But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

I had a couple thoughts about the above  one is it will be so hard to feed clothe and take care of the children during this time, and another thought was people are stealing murdering sexually assaulting the innocent, seems like every day a new case some are found alive some are never found.
I don't want to sound so alarmed that I just let my thoughts go every direction, but does anyone have thoughts about this?

SPOKENFOR what are your thoughts on this on Matthew 24 15-25?
Has this already happened with the destruction of Jersaleum?

Hi SQ,

You know I am not sure I can say it ALL has already happened in Matthew 24, I believe only part of it has happened. I do not believe it is ALL spiritual and none of it is literal. I believe we will literally be entering a dark season on Earth where the Light of Christ will shine the Brightest ever through his people.

[SPOKENFOR]

Some wise words there!

I will add though that when you have millions upon millions of folks (ie: end time doomsday believers) assuming the worst then that is a recipe for trouble. I'm not addressing the OP or necessarily anyone here in particular - but just as a general rant against the widespread picture (which many preachers paint) of God poised with vials of wrath and destruction to pour out upon all the masses of sinners. I don't believe that is the reality of our present situation.

From the beginning all the prophets have cried out against abuse, oppression and injustice. You will find that all judgement and 'hell' (Gahenna) references have to do with works ("I was sick and you did not visit me" etc) and oppression ("woe unto you - hypocrites - you lay upon men's shoulders heavy burdens - grievous to be borne") and are against the systems which (systematically) give power to oppress. If we do those things within our power to break oppression and stop abuse and to teach love of God and neighbor then the results are very very predictable. 

RLV - the point you make is a brilliant step, but it's also a given, you have grasped a static unchangeable truth. But what about the here and now? I am very very interested in seeing transformation in the here and now. Do you think my desire concerning this is misplaced?

I can't think of a heavier burden to be laid on mankinds shoulders than the ET doctrine, and the lame arguments used to defend it, to me personally it's utterly indefensible and I could never defend it again

To me personally it's more burdensome than anything I have, or could possibly face in this lifetime

Oh yeah man, the ET doctrine is a terrible, terrible burden to bear. It really is honestly indefensible in my opinion, and poisons peoples' minds, destroys peace within man, and nearly, if not literally, makes HELL out of life. It's horrible!  :sigh:

As far as the original topic: I've heard judgement is coming, and it's the end of the world, and the President is the anti-Christ soooo many times that I don't really even worry about it anymore. Certainly I think American is in an ugly state of affairs right now, and it might get pretty bad, but I wouldn't call it God's judgement. At least, not like I used to view God's judgement (as in: God kills people and throws them into Hell). I'd go with the, if anything, overall purification process sort of judgement.

I guess again it goes back to perspective. I agree with the overall purification process sort of judgment, that is what I believe it to be.

[firstborn888]

Maybe there's a new world order after all--just not the one that satan had in mind?  :icon_king:

I think you are correct here Molly!

[Raggedy Anne]

This came to me as I was reading this thread.

Matthew 24:15-25   
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,⼢>But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

I had a couple thoughts about the above  one is it will be so hard to feed clothe and take care of the children during this time, and another thought was people are stealing murdering sexually assaulting the innocent, seems like every day a new case some are found alive some are never found.
I don't want to sound so alarmed that I just let my thoughts go every direction, but does anyone have thoughts about this?

SPOKENFOR what are your thoughts on this on Matthew 24 15-25?
Has this already happened with the destruction of Jersaleum?

I think if you look at a newspaper on any given day it is not difficult to conclude the times are very dark.... constant stories of mothers killing children, fathers killing entire families, swine flu, flesh-eating bacteria, contaminated food, state governments funds dried up because the tax base is folding up since the economy is in collapse, talk of nuclear war between Israel and Iran, Communist China rising to be a superpower, America divided more than ever, global warming - melting glaciers, water wars, GM bankrupt, bank bailouts but no help for the common people, tent cities in U.S. cities.  Just this week in Texas a young woman killed and canibalized her 4 week old infant.  Sounds like hell on earth to me.  Let us not faint.   

Luke 18: 7-8 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

1 Thessalonians 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

[SQ]

This came to me as I was reading this thread.

Matthew 24:15-25   
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,⼢>But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

I had a couple thoughts about the above  one is it will be so hard to feed clothe and take care of the children during this time, and another thought was people are stealing murdering sexually assaulting the innocent, seems like every day a new case some are found alive some are never found.
I don't want to sound so alarmed that I just let my thoughts go every direction, but does anyone have thoughts about this?

SPOKENFOR what are your thoughts on this on Matthew 24 15-25?
Has this already happened with the destruction of Jersaleum?

I think if you look at a newspaper on any given day it is not difficult to conclude the times are very dark.... constant stories of mothers killing children, fathers killing entire families, swine flu, flesh-eating bacteria, contaminated food, state governments funds dried up because the tax base is folding up since the economy is in collapse, talk of nuclear war between Israel and Iran, Communist China rising to be a superpower, America divided more than ever, global warming - melting glaciers, water wars, GM bankrupt, bank bailouts but no help for the common people, tent cities in U.S. cities.  Just this week in Texas a young woman killed and canibalized her 4 week old infant.  Sounds like hell on earth to me.  Let us not faint.   

Luke 18: 7-8 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

1 Thessalonians 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

I believe anyone that is 40 or more surely see the increase in all the evil.
Let us not sleep, let us watch and be sober.