Unforgiveable Sin

[RaiderGonzo]

My question is, whatever that unforgivable sin is, if once committed, would that mean that that person will not be universally re-conciliated?

[WhiteWings]

No.

It means that person will be in the back of the queue of the people (100% of humanity) that are entering God's glorious forever-kingdom.

[Seth]

God has powerful ways to bring people to repentance.

[eaglesway]

My question is, whatever that unforgivable sin is, if once committed, would that mean that that person will not be universally re-conciliated?

Jesus said that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or the one to come. He did not say it would never be forgiven.

Colossians 1:16-21 clearly teaches that ALL will be reconciled by the blood of His cross, as does 1 Corinthians 15:22-25.

EVery adversary will be made a footstool for His feet.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.(phil 2:10,11)

The last enemy to be subjected is death. Paul says death will be destroyed and every adversary subjected to Christ is that God may be ALL IN ALL.




Not all in some.

[eaglesway]

but with willfull sin there are still consequences and accountability with god who is still angry with those who do this....i know i had sinned willfully in the past and am still struggling to overcome things and repent of everything the right way...but here are some quotes of other posts which are very upsetting if you are a prodigal who has been lost for some time because of such sins:

"The Gospel should not be abused as a license to sin.  To tempt the Lord your God is a sin, and he is our Father, to willingly do evil, or have poor behaviour so that grace might abound is a wicked thing that shows a wicked heart.

Sin brings fear, it was after the disobedience of Adam that they both ran away from God and hid themselves out of fear.

We should certainly fear the chastisement of the Lord when we are unrepentant, lukewarm, unloving, and sinful "saints" before the eyes of the righteous and holy God.  God wants noble priests, royal kings, good stewards, and legitimate sons who will worship in Spirit, Truth, and Love - not bastard children full of rebellion thinking that God won't deal with flagrant, blatant, known acts of sin.

Sin still exists, even if Grace covers it all.  But Grace is not Grace if the rapist tears through the flowers of fifty little girls while shaking his fist at God and doesn't reap what he has sown, Grace is not Grace if God winks an eye at the drug dealer introducing a playground to heroine, Grace is not Grace if housebreakers ply their wares and break families apart through divorce, lies, and theft.  They might not get the death penalty by fire, they might not be eternally damned by it, but they WILL be purified by the Lord our God who is THE All consuming fire!

And the eyes of a Holy God who is against your actions, and has come to chastise you is a fearful thing.  We fear the chastisement of our earthly parents when they punish us for doing wrong things, even though it is certainly done out of Love - the rod of God's remedial judgements are likewise fearful, yet twice loving.

God did not give us a lazy gospel, he expects us to work out our salvation with Him - not that works save us, but that if we are indeed claiming to be first fruits, we'd better act like it, and act like it through and by the grace and power of God who has shown us such loving kindness and mercy."

and then this one:

"Those who use grace as a license to sin are walking in the flesh, and the consequences of that are terrible- as are the consequences of walking in dead religion and the law. Defining fear as awe and reverence, and clearly understanding the severity of the consequence of rebellion- as opposed to horror, terror, etc. is an important distinction, IMO, and thats the only reason I posted."

even though i have repented of many of those sins i know i have done and still am working to overcome, this tells me his wrath is still against me because of those choices....i am wanting to feel loved and accepted and forgiven by him when he is still very possibly angry   :sigh:

Are you doing any of those things you listed? If so, then perhaps you DO need to fear the wrath of God and repent. I hope you are not committing such heinous sins and persisting in them.

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[ your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

The hope of the gospel is that "all will be reconciled through the blood of His cross- even the most wicked. WE WERE ALL ENEMIES hostile of mind and evil in behavior!

We were all redeemed, reconciled by His blood!

Then our behavior changed, and with some of us it has taken longer than with others to get victory perhaps- while some may struggle with the more "overt" sins of the flesh, others may struggle with sins of pride, anger, self-righteousness, arrogance, ambition greed- hidden sins that are sometimes not as "visible"- but just as deadly to the spiritual life.

We can only overcome by going to the throne of grace for forgiveness & help in the time of need.


Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

[Seth]

not persisting in those sins but still struggle with others and mess up all the time-i cannot be good enough for him....every sin counts against you and you store up wrath against you...i keep asking for forgiveness over and over and asking him to help me overcome...but what if i cannot be forgiven for saying hs as a comfort is a lie and joke even though i tried to say i was sorry for it? what fi cur is wrong after all?i lean to it and in great hope because there are so many who are lost

In Romans 1 we see a picture of God's wrath, and it's not like every sin counts against you and then ther is another judgment. The wrath in Romsn 1 is like the prodigal son. God will leave you to it essentially and allow your conscience to bring you to bring you to a place of repentance. I believe this has actually happened with you already. The whole idea, in my opinion, of God's wrath is to produce humility. For those who blaspheme the Spirit by calling God the same as the devil, most likely God will harden them unto a day where he will bring the the reaping of their sowing to their doorstop. For those who persist in sin, God actually hardens them UNTIL they repent. The reason he hardens them is so that they will experience the negative consequences of their actions and desire forgiveness.

If you have already desired forgiveness, then you don't need the resistance of God against the proud. God resists the proud, not the humble. You don't sound like the proud to me. So at least concerning the sins you have already repented about, you don't need holdover punishment. God does not hold punishment for sins repented about because the whole reason for his judgments is to produce repentance in the first  place.

[Seth]

even if  i told god "he" lied to me an dit was about teh hs being a comfort...who is the father of lies??? i did not mean it that way at that moment but thats what ended up being said  :(  i have cried many tears over that and everything i have done....i hope you are right and that he will help me to overcome evreything in me that is wrong and for all...

Well to me that sounds more like unbelief rather than blasphemy, but either way, the reason God takes wrath on people is to produce repentance. Once that happens, sins are forgiven. As the scripture says, God is love. And, love holds no record of being wronged. Gods wrath us not about holding a record against the repentant, but to bring about repentance for the proud. If AFTER they repent he continues to hold over a punishment, then love does hold a record and God could not be love. I believe that God is love and love holds no record.

[dajomaco]

Then our behavior changed, and with some of us it has taken longer than with others to get victory perhaps- while some may struggle with the more "overt" sins of the flesh, others may struggle with sins of pride, anger, self-righteousness, arrogance, ambition greed- hidden sins that are sometimes not as "visible"- but just as deadly to the spiritual life.

We can only overcome by going to the throne of grace for forgiveness & help in the time of need.[/b]


Man is interested in less Sin.

God demands NO Sin.

If we as a people gave each other the Grace we give ourselfs.
So simple do unto others.
Judge not.

[WhiteWings]

not persisting in those sins but still struggle with others and mess up all the time-i cannot be good enough for him....every sin counts against you and you store up wrath against you...i keep asking for forgiveness over and over and asking him to help me overcome...but what if i cannot be forgiven for saying hs as a comfort is a lie and joke even though i tried to say i was sorry for it? what fi cur is wrong after all?i lean to it and in great hope because there are so many who are lost

lnb join the group of 7 billion sinners.
Not good but you obviously repented a lot,  which God obviously likes.
Your main problem isn't what you did but what you are still doing.  Namerly not trusting in Father's vast mercy an the Son's cleancing blood.
:2c:

[WhiteWings]

Show me one, just one, person except Jesus who was without  sin (after becoming a believer).

[Seth]

the lambs book of life has many people in it who did not fail and fall and manage to be erased out of it....

How do you know they never fell?

Proverbs 24:16
For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity

[micah7:9]

God Is Love.

[WhiteWings]

Do you think apostle Paul is in the book?


BTW BoL looks most likely is symbolized by  a Jewish custom in which the name of certain criminals was blotted out. Their name wasn't allowed to be used for a generation. A generation. Not forever.

[WhiteWings]

Really, Paul the mass murderer in BoL?

1 Tim 1

13 the one who before was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and insolent; but I received mercy, because being ignorant I did it in unbelief.

15 It is a trustworthy saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Messiah Yahshua came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

[WhiteWings]

Paul wasn't just an ignorant nitwit. He was educated and knew a very great many things about God.

Paul said he was in unbelief. He didn't really spell that out, but considering his determination on rooting out Christians I wouldn't be suprised he also once was of the opinion Jesus miracles were done by the power of satan. (unforgiveble sin)
Now I think of it; the people back then had just 3 options. They believe the miracles came from God, or satan. The only other option (3rd) I can think of is that some assumed Jesus just used actors that acted to be healed.

We know Paul was in unbelief. That means he rejected the idea Jesus healed with the power of HS. That leaves satan and actors. Although I think actors is possible, it's not mentioned in the Bible so perhaps that means he believed satan gave the powers to Jesus.
Paul wasn't a man of just words. He actively slaughtered everyone Christian he could lay his hands on.

Sound way worse than you did.

[WhiteWings]

But everyone will seek or be found. That's the whole thing.
Every knee will bow before Jesus.
The Good Sheperd of UR will find the lost sheep. He's not as lazy and lousy at His job as the ETs believe.

[eaglesway]

But everyone will seek or be found. That's the whole thing.
Every knee will bow before Jesus.
The Good Sheperd of UR will find the lost sheep. He's not as lazy and lousy at His job as the ETs believe.

:laugh:

[lostnbroken]

found this on another thread:

On a question involving the interpretation of a phrase, drawn from a language still living in their day, it is most important to note the attitude of most Fathers towards this sin. "The notion," says BINGHAM, "that most of the antients had of the sin against the Holy Ghost, was not that it was absolutely unpardonable, but that men were to be punished for it both in this world and in the next, unless they truly repented of it." - vol. ii. 921 So ATHANASIUS says of this sin, "If they repent they may obtain pardon, for there is no sin unpardonable with God to them who truly repent." - De comm. essent. So S. CHRYSOSTOM, "We know that this sin was forgiven to some that repented of it." * * What is then the than meaning of it? That it is a sin less capable of forgiveness than all others, - Hom. xlii. in S. Matt. xii. So VICTOR of Antioch - Comm. in S. Marc. iii., S. AMBROSE - De penit. ii .4, &c. And so DIONYSIUS (Syrus), as late as the tenth century, says: "Many, who did blaspheme. against the Holy Ghost, afterwards repented, and obtained pardon," - translated from a Syriac MSS. (Dubl. 1762.) Two points are very noteworthy; (I.) that these Fathers did not believe any sin to be in itself unpardonable, (II.) that they did not believe the phrases eis ton aiona or aionios, to mean in strictness "never," or "everlasting," as our version renders them. And so nobody will press the similar phrase as to the iniquity of Eli's house not being purged for ever - 1 Sam. iii. 14, to mean that it was literally unpardonable.



I may add that if we retain the authorized text in S. .Mark, the word rendered "damnation" is merely "judgment." But the true reading is probably hamartematos=sin, i.e., is guilty of a. sin, whose results last into a future age or ages. The phrase translated "never," is so far from meaning this literally, that it is elsewhere in Scripture followed by "and beyond," i.e., and after, e.g., Ex. xv. 18, Dan. xii. 3, &c. In S. Matt, the parallel passage is differently worded. "It shall not be forgiven in this world (i.e., age) nor in that which is to come." These words imply that there is forgiveness for sin after this life in very many cases - (an awkward fact for the traditional creed,) and therefore repentance after death is quite possible. Next, there is no assertion whatever that, after this age, and that to come, there may not be forgiveness even for the sin v. the Holy Ghost. A few words may be added. This terrible sin is the sin of the Scribes and Pharisees, i.e., of the hard, narrow religionist, and not of the ungodly. The sin itself is very clearly defined, "because they said, He has an unclean spirit," v. 30. Its essence lies in confounding the works of the Good and Evil Spirits, as, e.g., assigning to God any kind of evil act, p. 37,8. Must it not be a near approximation to this awful sin to assign to God deeds which, like endless torture, our conscience tells us are evil and cruel?

[rosered]

  Have  you considered     LB .


  The reason one could not be saved    for blaspheming the Holy Spirit   in this age or age to come ?
I can only think of  one reason

  Can you think of any reason ?

[rosered]

perhaps being so hardened that they would not ever seek it? but all sins un-repented of would also lead to death....perhaps ultimately rejecting jesus as saviour and not being able to find forgiveness?

  Hi Lb ,

For me  only I am not sure of others    what they think  ,
  I believe its to  speak evil against      the HOLY SPIRIT

When Jesus admonished those  telling them they were close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit as spoke of the  sin so  bad it had no forgiveness in the  age / time they were    standing there   speaking to  Him nor to  the   next coming  age
  we know when  Jesus was speaking to them       He had not died on the Cross   yet   bringing in the new covenant    of grace      , for me this is the age  that was coming   upon   all to have the Spirit poured out on all flesh

     the miracle the Lord done       in healing they      called it of the devil  being the Hebrew Baal-zebub, meaning the lord of the flies, or possibly, as some translations have it, the lord of dung, was the Philistine pagan god of Ekron.

   Jesus told them   if the sinned against Jesus they were forgiven and   against God  , but  not the HOLY SPIRIT

Do you want to know what I believe this means  LB ?

We can go farther if you want to understand  why I do not think you  sinned against the Holy Spirit   .

[rosered]

please....i know in that moment when i said this thing it was an insult, but more to god[not any less a sin  :(] but i said something about hs being a lie...this is why it has plagued me...i did do my best to apologize and tell him i was sorry and that i was very wrong to say this to him...i was in a very bad place in emotions[anguish and pain] all i really did want was for him to come right then and say ti would be ok but i needed to trust him and he would help me through the mess i was in...but i backslid form there and was trying to hang onto him but not very well  :(

  The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth     and testifies of the Father and the Son     
 
I honestly do not think it was you  that spoke  this  LB
  but a bad spirit in you    ,    many dont understand    this but remember Jesus    cast out    evil spirits  in mankind ?


     I remember   this plain as day    ,   when the evil spirits told Jesus  did you come to torment us before the time ?


  the time was the age to come the age of  grace   by the Cross Jesus would judge   the world  in righteousness   

  those are the blasphemers of the Holy Spirit and Spirit of truth      evil spirits in a man    , not the poor man being over run by evil spirits in the first place      to me  sister .
  they cannot be born  again   from the Holy Spirit    of truth     in the age/ of law  of moses  nor the Age of Grace though Jesus Christ

because they    are the sin   and error in mankind      that we pray for deliverance from
 
Jesus says in His prayer to   His   Father  in John 17
 
Keep them from the evil one     , this man of sin is in every man  that must be destroyed       so evil cannot exist in Gods kingdom

   I sure hope this makes sense to you 
  there is many scriptures to back up   what I am telling you  in the  4 gospels ..  the works of God though Jesus Christ   in healing   and delivering    us   from sin

         when the Lord  Jesus delivers us from evil     its a big deal        the evil is bound for destruction

  but not  Gods     children they are  born again from above         by the HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH         

[rosered]

well i am not surprised by this.....i am upset with myself for even allowing any such things to happen[all sin] i hate it...i hate that sin/evil even exists and  i want to be free of ti...for all to be free of this ....despite sin, i was still trying to hang onto him and in trust that he would help me through all the sin, the trials and everything...i only saw him as love and light and he would help me....i had not meant to abuse his grace or love...was blinded in so much...on so many medications for a long time too did not help...

Sweetheart its not your fault !!!     you were misguided    the law of Moses is good it exposes the man of sin in every man    , no  man can know the ways of God
  only the Son of Man    being also the Son of God     
  just as I was also     as so very many of us   were and many  still are in the world even now
  John 9   shows us

  the blind man   healed

   and Jesus   told them this was the reason he come was to  render  /provide or give (a service, help, etc.). judgment

Jesus come to save us   from evil !!!


Spiritual Blindness
35 When Jesus heard what had happened, he found the man and asked, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

36 The man answered, "Who is he, sir? I want to believe in him."

37 "You have seen him," Jesus said, "and he is speaking to you!"

38 "Yes, Lord, I believe!" the man said. And he worshiped Jesus.

39 Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment—to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind."

40 Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?"

41 "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.

  you are right to hate evil  , we all do  I hate it too      , we all hate it  now and  be glad when its  never ever going to exist again  !!   
  our trust is in the HOLY ONE  who can  deliver His creation from evil       
this is what true repentance is all about  sis , you are doing  very well !!     God is good and sees your need , He is faithful as promised !!     we cling to Him  our hope in Him     our all is in Him  only !!

[rosered]

i hope he truly has forgiven me then and he will forgive us all in the end....i hurt for the rest of the world who are lost and broken like me or who reject him because they do not get it.... i wish i could know this as truth[cur] and that god truly wishes ALL to be redeemed one day..

  God is good always    sis , and   never fails     He ALONE has purposed it all        for His glory 
all will glorify Him .. we wait on the Lord   sis , Its to  His good pleasure to  give     his  children /flock   His kingdom
   what is  [cur]   ? 

[rosered]

cur-christian universal reconciliation....if you end up not being chosen/elect then you end up in the lof....jesus said it was very difficult to lead to life...i have been on the wide road for a long time and am wanting to be with him...he said many will think they are[lord, lord] but even they will be cast away form him...if this bel.ief is wrong then billions of people will suffer for forever with no hope or no love ever....i wish we could know for sure that lof is spiritual and not a lava pit and that people will be able to come out of it and be healed and restored to him....why create so many lives if only to torment forever...maybe he will annihilate and end it....if i cannot be with him, i do not want to exist

Thank you for explaining the cur    LB sis ,

ALL things are in Gods power      , we believe in Him and His word       


      God spoke saying His wrath is but a moment ,, but His mercy endures forever   Psalms  30 


Mourning Turned into Dancing
1A Psalm. — A song of the dedication of the house of David. I exalt Thee, O Jehovah, For Thou hast drawn me up, and hast not let mine enemies rejoice over me.

2Jehovah my God, I have cried to Thee, And Thou dost heal me.

3Jehovah, Thou hast brought up from Sheol my soul, Thou hast kept me alive, From going down [to] the pit.

4Sing praise to Jehovah, ye His saints, And give thanks at the remembrance of His holiness,

5For — a moment [is] in His anger, Life [is] in His good-will, At even remaineth weeping, and at morn singing.

6And I — I have said in mine ease, 'I am not moved — to the age.

7O Jehovah, in Thy good pleasure, Thou hast caused strength to remain for my mountain,' Thou hast hidden Thy face — I have been troubled.

8Unto Thee, O Jehovah, I call, And unto Jehovah I make supplication.

9'What gain [is] in my blood? In my going down unto corruption? Doth dust thank Thee? doth it declare Thy truth?

10Hear, O Jehovah, and favour me, O Jehovah, be a helper to me.'

11Thou hast turned my mourning to dancing for me, Thou hast loosed my sackcloth, And girdest me [with] joy.

12So that honour doth praise Thee, and is not silent, O Jehovah, my God, to the age I thank Thee!

[rosered]

he forgave the prodigal son...he will forgive those who return to him  :HeartThrob:  as seth had written the prodigal was dead but when he returned to god he was forgiven and welcomed home

  Yes  bro  Seth is right , we are all sort of like the prodigal sons  eh!! ?  out in the world   in misery   only to return home  and Know Father was  glad to see   his son again
He makes a very  valid   point sister !! :flowerred: