The Hell Thread

[darryl]

What the point IS tho and what IS important is the fact that there is NO ETERNAL hellfire or punishments

thats true, how can a normal human beeing accept the idea of everlasting hell? or say this is just or hope that someone would go there? it will never go in my mind, every person should be glad when telling them, what these words meant, but so many people, they want hell to be real, why?

they have believed something so utterly abhorrent, absurd and downright monstrous for so long they have brainwashed themselves...some Calvinists even say they will rejoice to see their own mother tormented in the lake of fire !..if you don't believe me watch this message Calvinist theologian RC Sproul preached where he says this very thing !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D00_sM-rTCQ

These people arent even being honest. To be happy in heaven while ones loved ones are being tortured forever without end is an insane idea.

[marie glen]

they have believed something so utterly abhorrent, absurd and downright monstrous for so long they have brainwashed themselves...some Calvinists even say they will rejoice to see their own mother tormented in the lake of fire !..if you don't believe me watch this message Calvinist theologian RC Sproul preached where he says this very thing !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D00_sM-rTCQ

These people arent even being honest. To be happy in heaven while ones loved ones are being tortured forever without end is an insane idea.

It is insane isn't it? I think the idea of hell came forth from a psychotic mind..!

"Calvinist theologian RC Sproul preached where he says this very thing" :faint: imagine!! it twists logic into a totally twisty thing!  :Chinscratch: maybe that's why Yahweh gave the serpent, after the fiasco in Eden, the shape He did... twisty! so much twisty, slithering, 'logic' - or rather lack of, that is!

Geesh!

will rejoice to see their own mother tormented in the lake of fire !

HoW, is this love? "God is love"

[darryl]

they have believed something so utterly abhorrent, absurd and downright monstrous for so long they have brainwashed themselves...some Calvinists even say they will rejoice to see their own mother tormented in the lake of fire !..if you don't believe me watch this message Calvinist theologian RC Sproul preached where he says this very thing !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D00_sM-rTCQ

These people arent even being honest. To be happy in heaven while ones loved ones are being tortured forever without end is an insane idea.

It is insane isn't it? I think the idea of hell came forth from a psychotic mind..!

"Calvinist theologian RC Sproul preached where he says this very thing" :faint: imagine!! it twists logic into a totally twisty thing!  :Chinscratch: maybe that's why Yahweh gave the serpent, after the fiasco in Eden, the shape He did... twisty! so much twisty, slithering, 'logic' - or rather lack of, that is!

Geesh!

will rejoice to see their own mother tormented in the lake of fire !

HoW, is this love? "God is love"

dunno...if God did actually throw people's relatives and loved one's into a ghastly fiery lake to be tortured we can bet heaven would be full of people badgering God to stop that torture..the only way out would be for God to perform a lobotomy on people so they forgot their sons, mothers, husbands, daughters, wives and loved ones being burnt alive..

God would also have to take away the memory of those tormented people from the people in heaven who didn't personally know these tormented people but who merely knew of them..

the entire idea is ridiculous. :laugh:

[eaglesway]

I have heard the lobotomy idea proposed in a way- that God will block the awareness of the multitudes in torment in the minds f the saved. Whew! Like scary huh? One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. The Stepford Bride. Yikes!

[Lazarus Short]

Well, folks, I've finished my survey of the KJV, and could not find Hell.  *poof*  :declare:

Well, hey, the Lake of Fire is bad enough... :eek:

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[darryl]

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator and Sustainer of ALL things and ALL people. He either does or allows everything that is done in heaven or on earth. If one hundred billion helpless human beings are being tortured, then Jesus is doing it.
Satan has brought suffering and death to the whole human race. However, if eternal torment IS TRUE, then Jesus Christ will torture forever the whole human race, except the small handful who will be saved. In one hour, in a hot searing hell, our Lord will inflict more pain and agony on each person than Satan inflicted on that person during his entire life.

If this torture lasts throughout eternity, then each unsaved person will suffer more than all the suffering of all the people that ever lived on earth. Think of it! Billions have suffered horrible pain for hours, days, weeks, months, and years, during the time they were alive. And yet, after they die, EVERY unsaved person will suffer more agony than all the suffering of the whole race PUT TOGETHER from Adam until now. This is so horrible, so frightful, that it is difficult for our minds to grasp. Except Satan himself, Pharaoh, Nero, and Hitler were among the most horrible killers of men this world has ever known.

Yet, the doctrine of eternal torture makes Jesus a million times more vicious and vindictive than these three put together. You see, these brutal murderers killed their victims. Death brought sweet relief in a moment of time. However, that Man of Galilee, that Man whom we love, praise, and worship, that Man who taught that we should forgive four hundred and ninety times a day, that Man who told us that we should love our enemies and bless them that curse us, that Man who died for all men, will never, never forgive ANYONE who has rejected Him in this frail life, or, worse yet, who merely failed to believe on Him during this brief time. Instead of torturing them for a season and then ending their suffering with death, He will torture them through all eternity.

Even the hardest, cruelest, most brutal men cannot torture their fellow men for more than two or three hours without growing weak, faint, and sick (see Fox Book of Martyrs). However, Christian leaders teach that our Lord will torture His victims through endless ages. The Scripture reveals that Christ Jesus is the kindest, the most tender-hearted and merciful Person this world has ever known. His mercy endures forever, or to all generations of time. Yet, the doctrine of eternal torment pictures Him to be the most horrible monster, the most beastly, brutal, cruel, vicious Person this world has ever known.

The governments of this world, ruled by unregenerated men, put their rebels in prisons, and the very worst offenders they put to death. But our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator and Redeemer of the world, will mercilessly torture those who offend Him to the most hideous and incomprehensible degree. Surely, this pagan and Romish doctrine of eternal torture does NOT glorify HIM!

One of the theologians of the Church of England (Jeremy Taylor) speaks of the fate of the wicked in the following terms: "In hell every sense and organ shall be assailed forever with its own appropriate and most exquisite sufferings. We are amazed at the inhumanity of Phalaris who roasted men in his brazen bull, but THAT WAS A JOY IN COMPARISON WITH HELL."

And here is what the renowned evangelist,(C. H. Spurgeon,) said on the same subject: "There is real fire in hell. The body shall be suffused with agony; your head tormented with racking pains; your eyes starting from their sockets; your ears tortured with horrid sounds; your pulse rattling with anguish; your limbs crackling in the flame; every vein a pathway for the fire to tread; every nerve a string on which the devil shall forever play the diabolical tune of hell's unutterable lament."

If it were true, it is so awful that it should never be spoken without tears and a broken heart. How does the mother of a murderer speak of the corning execution of her boy? Yet the prospect to her is only one of time, and in the limits of the physical. If the people believe it, then their attitude about the whole thing reveals that they could care less if the creation burns forever.

The fact is, NO ONE really believes in an eternal burning hell if we are to judge by their actions. If they saw a person in a burning building, they would put forth every effort to save them; they would cry and scream for help; they would be late for work; they would not rest until the victims were rescued.

Yet, those who teach eternal torment can spend their hours relaxing in front of the television screen, visiting and feasting upon rich dainties with their friends, and whole days in camping, vacationing, fishing, and playing, and then lay their heads upon a pillow every night and sleep soundly, while, according to their own teaching, countless millions are going to a place a million times worse than a burning building!

If they believed what they teach, they would never cease, day and night until they dropped, and others came to take their places, in their efforts to save men from such a place! They excuse themselves by saying, "All we can do is warn."
But if they were standing before a burning building would they preach a thirty-minute sermon, then turn and walk away, saying, "All we can do is warn!" And how many do they meet day after day, and never mention their danger?

Ah, precious friend of mine, if my concept of hell were what modern Christendom's is, then it is my conviction that I would not be able to wait for God to send me to preach the Gospel! I would have to spend my every wakened hour pleading, working, struggling, fighting to save men from such a fate. I would be compelled to spend hours upon hours in the chronic wards of hospitals, in rest homes, with the elderly and those working on dangerous jobs, begging men to repent and turn to Jesus before they die.

And I am convinced that anyone with the love of God in his heart would do the same IF HE REALLY BELIEVED the fables that are being taught today about hell. I will say this, either those who teach eternal torture are EXTREMELY CALLOUSED or they do not believe what they teach!

George Hawtin has so aptly written: "Is it any wonder that in the face of such sadistic humbug there has been a wholesale manufacture of infidels? All these statements (by eternal hell-fire preachers) may be a show of oratorical eloquence, but they are nothing more. They hold no part of truth. They deny every attribute of God. They make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe.

To say that I believe in such repugnance would be a lie of the first order. I do not believe it because it is contrary to the nature of God. It is contrary to the love of God. It is contrary to the justice of God. It is contrary to the power of God. It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome.

Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for all the world to be almost impotent in its power and scope. Worst of all, it frustrates the purpose of God laid down in the beginning when He said, 'Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.' Some will immediately ask me whether I do not believe in hell.

My answer is very definite on this point. I most certainly DO BELIEVE in hell, but the hell of the Bible and the hell of human tradition are not the same thing at all. The hell of tradition is hopeless and eternal, while the hell of the Scripture like every judgment of God is corrective, remedial, and restorative." -end quote.

I do not like to differ, even in minor things, from those whom I esteem for their devotion to Christ and their valuable service in the cause of His Kingdom. But in the immortal words of the great Martin Luther, "Here I stand - I can do no other. So help me God!" Long centuries ago the faithful apostle Peter penned these inspired words, "Who by the power of God are kept through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (I Pet. 1:5).

My conviction before God is that the extent of the salvation of Jesus, the Christ, our Lord, is to be known only in the last time. Jesus Himself said to His disciples, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now." But He said when the Holy Spirit should come, He would lead his people step by step - patiently lead them into the way of All Truth; so that when the last time (end of the age) came, the full revelation of that salvation would be made.

I believe that I am writing in the last time. Writings of this kind do not endear the hearts of many people. I fear that enemies are made instead. Every time a truth is spoken, many become offended and many are filled with wrath. People always astonish me. It is never possible to know what attitude they will take under any given circumstance. They will believe and trust you and feed from your table, and for many years, only to become suddenly offended because of some point upon which they disagree, and often become hostile and sometimes even vicious, calling you a heretic and a false prophet, cutting you off from an fellowship and spiritual communication, and warning other saints near and far not to have anything to do with you.

I am also perfectly aware that these profound truths will be misapplied by another class, and some will twist and wrest them to their own destruction in their carnal and wicked endeavor to set aside all repentance of sin and annul all holiness of life, as some men in their zeal to display the grace of God have done, ridiculously living in sin and turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 4). These beautiful truths are not now written to men of corrupt minds who have no desire to walk in the Spirit, but to all who walk in the whole counsel of God, serving God because they love and know Him and not in fear of some dreadful judgment that hangs like a horrible terror before their eyes.

I do not address those who would pervert the right ways of the Lord, using God's gracious plan and His great mercy as an excuse for careless living or unconcern for lost men, but to those children of the Most High God who, seeing their infinite identity in Christ, are consumed with the holy passion of becoming the very instrument of God to fight the good fight of faith, destroying sin and death and hell, and bringing all men back into the loving embrace of their God and Redeemer. So be it!

I recognize that there will be some still unanswered questions in some minds, but there is neither time to write nor finances to print a treatise dealing with every small point. How can we put the ocean of eternal truth into the limited pages of one small book? If God will have all men to be saved, and the Scripture is very clear on this point, then there must be a way by which this truth falls into perfect harmony with every other Scripture which seems to teach otherwise.

We do ourselves much injury when we seize upon every Scripture which proclaims the salvation of all men, but carefully avoid all Scripture which speaks of the fearful judgment of the wicked. Yet even greater harm is done when people insist upon taking the other point of view, as almost the entire Church system has done for centuries, emphasizing only those Scriptures which seem to teach the unending doom of those unfortunate creatures who never once heard that God had a Son and skillfully avoiding every direct statement of Scripture which indicates that God has reconciled all things to Himself, and that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God of things in heaven and things in earth and under the earth.

There is always a place of harmony if we look for it, and it is not usually difficult to find. Otherwise we will be forced onto that untenable ground of having to say that the Bible contradicts itself - which, of course, it never does. Whenever you find two Scriptures that seem to set forth conflicting views, there is always a simple explanation, and, if we will diligently inquire of the Lord, He will give us a definite answer.

Human understanding is almost always prone to seize upon one side of a statement and will cling to that with the grip of death, refusing to even investigate or seek the wisdom of God to harmonize the truth. Worldly wise men are forever saying that the Bible contradicts itself.
I have never believed that by teaching the ultimate salvation of all men we were pitting one group of Scriptures against another, for it is my conviction that the solution can only be found in the correct HARMONIZATION of all the Scriptures, not ignoring one group while advancing the other.

I believe I speak by the Spirit of God when I assert that the only sensible harmonization of all the Scriptures lies in the fact that Jesus is indeed THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, that He is in very fact THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, and that HE WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and come to the knowledge of the truth, DRAWING ALL MEN UNTO HIMSELF. To me this is a most glorious and wonderful fact! I find all the judgments of God to be correctional and disciplinary rather than vindictive and final. Therein lies the harmonization of which I speak.

This leaves us free to believe ALL of God's Word. It magnifies the cross. It glorifies God. It honors the atonement. It gives meaning to the ministry of the Sons of God. It gives purpose to the ages yet to come, all planned and arranged beforehand by our wonderful Creator. Sin, judgment, and death are temporary, all to be dealt with by the mighty power of God invested in His saints. The entire universe will be reconciled to God through the blood of Christ's cross. God will become All-in-All. Here is a God worthy of your worship and adoration!

Several brethren have written or discussed this subject with me through the years, adamant against the truth I see. But their arguments are shallow and twisted and their spirits generally harsh against men whom God loves and for whom the Christ died, as though they wanted to make CERTAIN that everybody gets every thing they "deserve."

Their theology is lopsided, distorted, out of balance, and it will be smashed in the end! Those who walk in that attitude know but little of the love of Him who is at the same time the JUDGE OF ALL and the SAVIOUR OF ALL. He is not the Judge of some and the Saviour of some, but both Judge and Saviour of ALL! If "Judge of ALL" means that He judges all, then "Saviour of ALL" must mean that He saves all, for the Scriptures plainly make both statements. Within that one fact again can be seen the HARMONIZATION of the justice and the love of God - His judgment leading to repentance and a knowledge of His mercy. Praise His wonderful name!

[eaglesway]

Yes My Brotha, YES!

[eaglesway]

I don't know how to do it James, but I think Darryl's post should be stickied up near the top somewhere.

[Patinak]

 :iagree:

[marie glen]

Amen, amen.. I agree! :thumbsup: --  A :teaching: very, very :goodpost:

I especially like what was said about the Word.. (In essence being real good Bereans no matter what doctrine or how long or strongly heldl! Examining aLL pertaining verses) and if "Judge of all" means all, then "savior of all" means all.

But! Too many great points to say "especially liked" about!

[darryl]

Yes My Brotha, YES!

:dsunny:

[darryl]

Amen, amen.. I agree! :thumbsup: --  A :teaching: very, very :goodpost:

I especially like what was said about the Word.. (In essence being real good Bereans no matter what doctrine or how long or strongly heldl! Examining aLL pertaining verses) and if "Judge of all" means all, then "savior of all" means all.

But! Too many great points to say "especially liked" about!

:thumbsup:

[Ross]

I find all the judgments of God to be correctional and disciplinary rather than vindictive and final. Therein lies the harmonization of which I speak.

:thumbsup: Judgment does not imply guilty until proven innocent, which is pretty much what many churches are teaching.
Judgment is indeed correction, pointing out the errors of our ways.

Amen that our saviour points this out quite clearly to each of us.

Rom 14;10 " Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or again, why do you hold your brother in contempt?
                    For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God."

Rom 14;12,13 " So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another
                        but resolve this instead, NEVER to place an obstacle or trap in a brother's way."

1 Cor  4;5 " So then, stop passing judgement on anything before the time, before the Lord comes.
                  He will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will disclose the motives of the heart.
                  At THAT time, praise will come to each from God."

2 Tim 4;1,2 " I Solemnly charge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, Who is about to judge the living and the dead,
                    by His appearing and by His kingdom; preach the word.
                    Be prepared when it is opportune, or inopportune; confront, rebuke, exhort, WITH COMPLETE PATIENCE AND TEACHING."

Gal 6;15 "For neither circumcision or uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation."

So indeed, why does the church effectively implement their own judgment on their own community, attempting to win some for Christ.
We do not threaten our own children to love us or else, so I cannot fathom our real Father doing that very thing.
Instead His patience and love go beyond our ability to fully understand until He reveals this to us from His perspective instead of man's.
Cut out the miss-understanding of the "ages" and this makes even more sense of the development phases for all mankind.

After all;   NOTHING can keep us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord- a literal statement- not request.

[darryl]

its not a get out of jail free card though...I still believe unbelievers probably/ possibly go to 'hell' OF SOME TYPE but it's not eternal....the belief in a non eternal hell was prevalent in the early church for the 1st 500 years of Christianity... if u study it u will see...the belief in eternal torment in hell only came later thru the Roman Catholic church and it came from paganism...God is truly good and He does not torture his creation, human beings, forever without mercy or pity....still, wicked people will suffer some kind of 'eternal loss' ...though their spirit is saved, their soul, all or part of it,  may be destroyed in the Lake of Fire...far better to accept Christ now in this life

[eaglesway]

Great selection of verses Ross.

[jugghead]

....still, wicked people will suffer some kind of 'eternal loss' ...

Not to hijack this thread but this jumped out at me and I wondered ...... what is the "eternal loss" that they will suffer?

Is it that they will come to realize their physical life was a loss in that they did not know Christ because of their wickedness?

but wouldn't that justify the question "why did you allow me to be wicked?" or "why did you not allow me to know Christ?" (the pot asking the potter)

IMO the "eternal loss" they will suffer is that they did not know "the end" for mankind ...... that being "that ALL will be saved"

because in the end (the grand picture of it) will it actually make a difference that some came to understand it before others when they understand that they too were chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world?

just some thoughts

[GodIsLove]

I don't believe any loss will be eternal. Eonian, maybe. But at some point God will  be all in all. If in the end all will be in Christ, then in the end "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." and if we are all one with Christ there is no one who is less than.

Just my opinion.

[eaglesway]

I agree. No "essential" loss that is eternal anyway. Paul spoke of some saints refusing deliverance in order to "obtain a better resurrection". When God is all and all, and all rule power and authority are done away, whatever any will be, will blessed in the "joy unspeakable and full of glory" of perfect love.

[marie glen]

I don't believe any loss will be eternal. Eonian, maybe. But at some point God will  be all in all. If in the end all will be in Christ, then in the end "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." and if we are all one with Christ there is no one who is less than.

Just my opinion.

   I never thought of that in quite that way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen! (And Glory! ...He's so wise..!)

[rosered]

I don't believe any loss will be eternal. Eonian, maybe. But at some point God will  be all in all. If in the end all will be in Christ, then in the end "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." and if we are all one with Christ there is no one who is less than.

Just my opinion.

   I never thought of that in quite that way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen! (And Glory! ...He's so wise..!)

  Yes  and   it is a great  way to think  indeed !!!   
  Some good stuff on this thread , What a blessing !!!   

[darryl]

I don't believe any loss will be eternal. Eonian, maybe. But at some point God will  be all in all. If in the end all will be in Christ, then in the end "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." and if we are all one with Christ there is no one who is less than.

Just my opinion.

hmmm,this is difficult to put into words because it's dealing with abstract concepts, but I'll try...a question : will a Pol Pot  (as a stereotypical evil person)  be in heaven without being stripped of his evil ?...without suffering eternal loss of the depraved elements of his soul' ?...hmmm, didnt Jesus say better to lose the entire world than lose ones soul ?. ..surely the loss of the wicked and depraved parts of his soul will take place..that's the eternal loss I'm speaking of...the eternal loss of that which is no good in the first place ...btw, the Bible NEVER talks about the loss of the Spirit..only the 'Soul'.I know God will be 'all in all'..but the 'All' that is in Him must be holy and pure. not wicked..and God will dash and remake the wicked ones, like Hitler or Pol Pot..like a potter remodels clay...so that only the pure burnished 'good' remains.I believe this concept of the 'loss of the soul' that Jesus spoke of best fits the UR eschatological narrative.Of course I'm not God and I could be wrong but it seems both Biblical and logical to me that God will not allow 'evil' in heaven.

[GodIsLove]

I don't believe any loss will be eternal. Eonian, maybe. But at some point God will  be all in all. If in the end all will be in Christ, then in the end "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." and if we are all one with Christ there is no one who is less than.

Just my opinion.

hmmm,this is difficult to put into words because it's dealing with abstract concepts, but I'll try...a question : will a Pol Pot  (as a stereotypical evil person)  be in heaven without being stripped of his evil ?...without suffering eternal loss of the depraved elements of his soul' ?...hmmm, didnt Jesus say better to lose the entire world than lose ones soul ?. ..surely the loss of the wicked and depraved parts of his soul will take place..that's the eternal loss I'm speaking of...the eternal loss of that which is no good in the first place ...btw, the Bible NEVER talks about the loss of the Spirit..only the 'Soul'.I know God will be 'all in all'..but the 'All' that is in Him must be holy and pure. not wicked..and God will dash and remake the wicked ones, like Hitler or Pol Pot..like a potter remodels clay...so that only the pure burnished 'good' remains.I believe this concept of the 'loss of the soul' that Jesus spoke of best fits the UR eschatological narrative.Of course I'm not God and I could be wrong but it seems both Biblical and logical to me that God will not allow 'evil' in heaven.

Ok, that makes sense. I agree no evil will remain so in that sense they "lose" a part of them, and the more evil a person is the more they will stand to lose. It will likely be a process and probably very difficult. 

Speaking from personal experience as a non-Hitler, lots of my sin and tendency to want to sin have been lost but I don't miss it! I don't even view a lot of what I've done in the past as "me."  Lots more still present within since we are yet to be perfected and I am happy for it to be gone some day! I think, though we are clearly speculating about things, that when Hitler is perfected and at one with Christ, he will feel glad to be rid of the evil that was within him even if it was a big part of him/his soul. I'd speculate he would feel anguish and torture and regret for a time but that can't, in my opinion, last forever, or else that is basically an eternal hell of sorts.

[rosered]

  What a beautiful way to express  the sinful nature,  GodisLove !

   Thankful  for you both ,and Darryl   you are right  such  wonderful thoughts !


I see  this separation  as to when the clay pots are broken[body counts for nothing]    and the soul [life one lived [ seat of emotions ] are still joined to the Spirit   for further processing .and possible things I cannot even imagine really   but .

  When my sister Pam had been separated from her mortal body , she was expressing to me that  she was not that body she saw laying on the ground ,

but was having a near death experience , or separation  [out of the body of death ] and her true self [soul ] was bound too was still  with the Spirit of Life   .What was keeping her alive still .

And during this separation   , she told me with  great  joy that  she had never  felt this kind of Love and connection her entire  mortal life and knew it was Jesus  presence   with her .

  She began seeing   everything take place from an above  view  of how the neighbor man come over and had called 911 and the  ambulance had come and paramedics  to  work on her .

   She remembered little else  , but  being awakened back into her own body  again , and in the hospital after a bad bleeding arm .
but the change in her was remarkable after her  experience .

I do not know  why , but this always encouraged  me   and found her  ''confession ''to be very believable   ,a real faith booster in the Lord , She began to read the bible and seek a church and  considered the Lord from that point on in everything .

   I am one whom believes there is so much more   to come  than just this mortal existence  now .

  And  do  have pity on  those whom do not  feel this way .  Whom live there lives with no  considering the Lord Jesus Christ  what so ever . 

I had heard as a child  , but did not know anything as I ought too .  Everyone learns though their own  experiences .

  No one can confess the Lord Jesus Christ except by the HOLY SPIRIT being  our witness  and sees and knows  everything  ...   

[darryl]

I don't believe any loss will be eternal. Eonian, maybe. But at some point God will  be all in all. If in the end all will be in Christ, then in the end "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." and if we are all one with Christ there is no one who is less than.

Just my opinion.

hmmm,this is difficult to put into words because it's dealing with abstract concepts, but I'll try...a question : will a Pol Pot  (as a stereotypical evil person)  be in heaven without being stripped of his evil ?...without suffering eternal loss of the depraved elements of his soul' ?...hmmm, didnt Jesus say better to lose the entire world than lose ones soul ?. ..surely the loss of the wicked and depraved parts of his soul will take place..that's the eternal loss I'm speaking of...the eternal loss of that which is no good in the first place ...btw, the Bible NEVER talks about the loss of the Spirit..only the 'Soul'.I know God will be 'all in all'..but the 'All' that is in Him must be holy and pure. not wicked..and God will dash and remake the wicked ones, like Hitler or Pol Pot..like a potter remodels clay...so that only the pure burnished 'good' remains.I believe this concept of the 'loss of the soul' that Jesus spoke of best fits the UR eschatological narrative.Of course I'm not God and I could be wrong but it seems both Biblical and logical to me that God will not allow 'evil' in heaven.

Ok, that makes sense. I agree no evil will remain so in that sense they "lose" a part of them, and the more evil a person is the more they will stand to lose. It will likely be a process and probably very difficult. 

Speaking from personal experience as a non-Hitler, lots of my sin and tendency to want to sin have been lost but I don't miss it! I don't even view a lot of what I've done in the past as "me."  Lots more still present within since we are yet to be perfected and I am happy for it to be gone some day! I think, though we are clearly speculating about things, that when Hitler is perfected and at one with Christ, he will feel glad to be rid of the evil that was within him even if it was a big part of him/his soul. I'd speculate he would feel anguish and torture and regret for a time but that can't, in my opinion, last forever, or else that is basically an eternal hell of sorts.

that's right , anguish and torment cant last forever otherwise there'd be 'tears in heaven' and the Bible says there's no tears there.