Soul sleep

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Yes, thank you Ronen.  :girlheart:

@ Micah.....looks like you already answered your question about another scripture. Blessings....

Not even close. But have you found the witness?

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: My  :2c:  Probably because it's universally understood throughout scripture, that there is a soul IN the body. Reading everything that pertains to it, and replacing it with the idea that man is a soul only, as opposed to having a soul, simply doesn't work in the context of what is said, and neither would there be a need to have different Greek and Hebrew words to express soul as being different from spirit.

We were made in His image, which is why we were made both male and female in one body. He called THEIR name Adam. God is a triune God, who also mentions having a soul. We are told we are spirit, soul and body. All the heavens declare His glory, as do we, it's the same pattern. Sun/spirit, moon/soul, and stars/body. Blessings...

This is just another religious theory and hypothesis, saying,"God is a triune God" that has no Bible basis.

[eaglesway]

There may be some sense in which the various terms describing a person may reflect them as seen from various points of emphasis. For example,

1. in relation to God's giving of life (spirit),
2. in relation to his existence as a human being (soul),
3. in relation to his existence in a physical world (body).

This same conception can also be seen in Yeshua's words:

and you shall love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.  (Deu 6:5)

Also consider this: When one speaks of the bone as a body part, what is included in that bone automatically is the marrow inside it. The entirety is referred to as a bone, although the marrow is, like the spirit, that which gives life to the bone, which may be likened to the soul. The bone is physically made up of collagen, which may be likened to the body.

Ronen

2. in relation to his existence as a human being (soul),
Yes I agree and and with the bone and the marrow I understand..bone body..marrow spirit and with these TWO components I see what makes the SENTIENT being, person, a soul.

I can understand knowing this Heb_4:12  For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Piercing and dividing the sentient(our 5 senses the urges within us, our self, ego) from the  spirit/breath that is ignited by grace, and imo that ignition begins at the dragging/drawing.
Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, joints and marrow, making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart

I see it like this-outer court/ body, holy place/ soul, holy of holies /spirit, golden altar of incense, heart

there is a veil between each.

When we live in the body realm, which imo is not just the skin but the senses directed outwardly into the world and mixed and driven by fleshly appetites- we need a lot of sacrifice, as were the multitudes of blood sacrifices made in the outer court.

When we live in the soul realm, "pleasures of the mind", "pride of life", we need to be "divided" by the word of God so that we can see the life in us which is spirit and so that our heart can be pricked.

"heart sprinkled clean from an evil conscience(consciousness). The heart is the highest seat of consciousness in man.

The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it? Nobody until the word of God pierces to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart"

"and a sword shall pierce your own heart also" said to Mary, of the nature of Jesus ministry, "to the end that many hearts shall be revealed"

Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

In that day the Lord will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
With His fierce and great and mighty sword,
Even Leviathan the twisted serpent;
And He will kill the dragon who lives in the sea.
2 In that day,
"A vineyard of wine, sing of it!
3 "I, the Lord, am its keeper;
I water it every moment.
So that no one will damage it,
I guard it night and day.

Leviathan is pictured in Job as "king of all the son of pride", stiffnecked, tightly armored. This carnal man, seated in the mind(psuche soul/mind, pneuma spirit/mind) must be separated, slain, brought low by the sword that comes from His mouth

Thou wouldst have me to know truth in my inner man

A broken and a contrite heart o God you will not cast out

Who will I bring into my holy hill, he that has a broken and a contrite heart

and when Peter had finished they(Sanhedrin) were pierced in their hearts and said, "Men and brethren, What shall we do?"

Today if you hear His voice harden not your hearts

In the Day Leviathan is always being slain, being "brought up" by the sword of His mouth, pushing back the veils we've erected in our mind(wihout form and void and darkness coveres the face of the deep) making manifest the thoughts and intentions of our hearts so the we can see His face and be transformed(woe unto me Isa 6)


Before we can "rightly divide" the word of truth we need to be "righty divided" by it. Those who "hold the truth in unrighteousness" hold it in the flesh and the mind, in the bowels of Leviathan rather than in the bowels of compassion, "heady, high-minded, having a form of godliness but denying the power(transformation) thereof, from such turn away". We need the "tares" separated from the "wheat" in "the Day" so we can be gathered ;o) otherwise we are good for nothing but to be bundled for burning.

"I laid a foundation, let everyone be careful how they build upon it......... the work shall be tested with fire for the Day shall reveal it, if any man's work abide, He shall recieve a reward."

If you have bitter envy and selfish ambition in your heart, "do not be arrogant and lie against the truth"(Leviathan living in the deep) this wisdom is not from above, it is earthly(body), soulical(psuche, psyhcological) demonic(spiritual). But the wisdom from above is first pure then peaceable, easily entreated, full of mercy and good fruit.

http://www.logoschristian.org/tab4.html

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[lastpost]

  arise..shake yourself free from the dust..put on your beautiful garments....the spirit returns unto God

   even if  prodigal.

  my  :2c:  we rise at death[He calls our name]..Michael and the reaping angels seperate any evil

spirits clinging to us...we gather in groups called sheaves and then are escorted up into the Holy

city....they call this..bringing

  in the sheaves[for we were planted[our spirits] in the fields[earth][I sowed good seed,an enemy

  hath sowed the tares]  we are escorted unto the Holy city and taken in..where we are eductaed

and re-educated and perfected in our understanding...many will come from the east and west and

sit at table...  doors are open all the time..because teaching is going on continously..and newly

risen arrive continously[daily sacrifices]....... that's when most men find out their true identity..that

they are sons of God. a lot of them have noidea what is going on and they are really quiet and scared at all that is taken place..because of the lying doctrines. some  know and are very joyful.

   seperating...at our death.....   the evil spirits clinging unto a man may say to the reaping

angels..didn't we do thus and thus in your name Lord[tare]  but MIchael and the reapers know

their stuff and  can fulfill the Lord's command to seperaate...and easily know an evil religious spirit

from the redeemed spirit of man[just] that shall be made perfect.

  this earth is a stage..and newly risen watch and learn/and are educated[wings full of eyes]

  only they can see the evil spirits and how they interact with men..  It's a family affair and when

perfect in understanding we have places prepared for us..of service..to minister unto those who

are to inherit[men on earth]  guardians,teachers etc....our ministry down  here in the body

  is just like theirs...fellow-workers] theirs is more comprehensive... as they can do things we can

not..  we are all one family of God.

ALL TRUTH,ALL LOVE,ALL GOD

   your own iniquity will reprove you...since evil spirits possessing men do not rise...we are

educated by watching someone with the same problems[sin] that we did not overcome in the flesh.

   we see thrugh weakness of the flesh of man,ignorance..the manipulation of man's body  that he

is at a disadvantage against these wicked unseen powers. legions of angels were to keep Jesus

from their plots/lies/manipulation as the Lamb that was to overcome.[satn referred to this and

tried to twist it to his advantage when he 'tempted']  also we have photographic minds in

  our rising..and fullness that we don't have now....we can become turned around and easily

tripped up without this perfection........no forgetting.....  our minds/bodies then will not react

to any other spirit operating in or on it..


ps..regarding the dream Becca referred to.  open pit graves........in the scriptures there is a

reference to those whose throats are an open grave....folly..her steps lead down to the grave

and we have the black cloaked/evil/negative contrast[evil religious spirit] that keeps them there

through unforgiveness and the counting of their sins against them...instead of Jesus dying for all

men's sins..and God not counting their sins against them.  to me..this shows...is this the man

who would not let his captives go free?   I see the vision as more of an illustration of  the false

Pharisee religious spirit[angel of death] that does not enter into the city/kingdom..and hinder's

those that attempt to do so. graves are graves..even if you white-wash them.

I apologise if I take a liberty here. I find this post uplifting. I believe that the Spirit unravels [through your way of putting things here] a great spiritual truth of the redeeming Christ [of the great and good God], flowing in unity of His Purpose of gathering together in one all things in Christ. It is brings hope [to me anyway] to hear some things not often heard.

That dimension adds the essential element I personally find necessary to confirm that of which I have been informed - by both the logic that God has given, and also by that which the Spirit literally speaks.

Romans

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead...

Job 12

7 Howbeit, ask, I pray, one of the beasts, and it shall direct you, And the flyer of the heavens, and it shall tell you,
8 Or importune to the earth, and it shall direct you, And the fish of the sea shall rehearse it to you.
9 Who among all these does not know That the hand of Eloah, it has done this?

Psalm 19

1 The heavens are recounting the glory of El, And the atmosphere is telling the work of His hands.
2 Day after day is uttering a saying, And night after night is disclosing knowledge.

Seeking consciousness of the Larger Purpose in the redemption / restoration of all beings by God through Christ, [and of its refining according to one's own personal understanding], is such a wholesome way to ensure that one remains mentally and spiritually healthy, does not despair, and is always ready to be used for the grand Purpose of the Supreme God, rather than be distracted into the highways and byways.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:......There are several problems and several scriptures that plainly show otherwise, concerning what happens to the soul at death. The angel of death is not a religious spirit, which should be obvious since non-religious people die every day. The angel of death was sent in to destroy the firstborn of the flesh/Egyptians, and it had nothing to do with their refusal to accept that Jesus died for all men's sins.

Aside from that, the leaven of the Sadducees we were told to avoid, was that the resurrection had passed already. This resurrection, is essentially what is being claimed, if the soul does
rise at the moment of death, and it is the leaven of the Sadducees. The resurrection from the dead is not just about the shell of a body. Something must first die and be buried, BEFORE it can resurrect, and that includes the soul.

The reason the bridegroom left is because the bride (our soul) must make herself ready, and SHE (this SHE includes the soul of males after the flesh, TOO) must have a white garment, a garment not spotted by the flesh (flesh here being such as lasciviousness, lust, pride, ect.).

If you study the ancient Jewish wedding customs, the groom betroths the bride, by going to the bride's house with his father and agreeing on a bride price, and they drink a glass of wine (Passover seder/last "supper") to it. Then he leaves to go back to his father's house, to build on a room and anything else he feels they will need (in My Father's house are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you). He stays gone up to a year usually, sometimes two, depending on what he needs to do. He also builds a aperion, which is a platform.

His groomsmen or servants, hold Him aloft and off they go in the night at the appointed time to get the bride, who has made herself ready, and when she hears him coming, she is to run out and the groomsmen catch her up (caught up in the air) and put her on the platform with him, and off they go back to her new home in his father's house, where they stay enclosed alone in the bridal chamber for a whole week, alone. The custom was to put out the bridal sheet to prove the bride was a virgin, BLOOD SHED, VEIL RENT.

Now, let's say the bride/soul DIDN'T make herself ready, and she is not a cleansed white garment, which means she's not a virgin soul saving herself for only His Spirit to be in union with? If the groom were anyone but Christ, she'd be shamed beyond measure, likely stoned to death as the adulterous woman was to be, because to them a betrothal was the same as being married already.

Well this is where we ALL are right now, and death in and of itself does nothing to remedy that condition of the soul. We are told we must have a new wineskin, else the new wine will burst it. It is His infinite mercy that there IS a resurrection that obviously includes the soul that did not overcome all things while in this life in the body. The wages of sin is death, and I have yet to see anyone But Jesus Christ overcome the last enemy IN THIS LIFE. That means, all sin has not been overcome, else we would not be dying.

True to the pattern, sin was covered over the whole religious year of the Jews, and only on the Day of Atonement was it removed. The body must do what it sees it's Head do, and what the Head did was lay down His life for the others, for no greater love has any man than this. On the DOA the High Priest brought an offering for his sins, and for the sins of the people. If there had been any sin, he would have died instantly upon entering, which is why they tied a rope to his ankle so they could drag his body out if they needed to. Sin is what separates us from a holy God. The soul that sins, it shall die.

Repentance has to come before the remission of sins; this is why it says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. The blood is the life of a thing. The things we give life through the soul birthing them OUT OF OUR HEART/SOUL, is it THOSE things that defile us, and this is what He was trying to tell us through the comments about cleaning the outside of the cup, and not the inside, and how if you lust after a woman in your heart, you've already committed adultery with her. Why?

Because even though the outward adultery may not have been manifested, the INWARD parts (soul) that are to be cleansed by the Holy Ghost, are still there with the capacity to birth until the cleansing takes place. The former is the fruit, the latter is the root. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, and we are told out of the heart of man comes only wickedness continually, and that the heart is wicked, who can know it?

Only the Holy Ghost who searches out the HIDDEN THINGS of the heart, can know it and consume it in the fire. This is why when He told them to cut down the idolatrous groves, they weren't just to cut them down, but also to set them on fire to be consumed completely. Any gardeners out there? What happens if you cut down scrub brush but don't remove the root?

And without repentance, no shedding of blood, that thing still defiles the temple. We tend to think that this shell is the temple He's concerned with, but the animal's blood that was shed in the outer court/outward works/fruit manifested, was carried into the inner court/heart/inward parts to cleanse the articles within for service unto the Lord. Just not doing the sin in shoe leather, doesn't cleanse the inside of the cup, and it is this inside that bears witness against us! Which is what He was proving by writing on the ground.

This is why salvation is an ongoing process, and thank God it does not stop with the death of the shell of the body. Paul was given to see something greater than attaining after the death of the body, but that's another topic. Again, my  :2c: Blessings...

[sheila]

   administration of death...Law covenant..written for the lawless   is death,short of grace/Jesus

Christ/resurrection.   the very religious self-righteous pharisees and sadducees/lawyers..as

the offspring of vipers..who sat in Moses seat. judging law unlawfully.epitomize this very spirit.

  [ifthey had known..they would not of crucified the Lord]

   among those born of women[soul] there was nne mre righteous than John the Baptist...what's

born of flesh is flesh


the Lord will create something new in the earth....a mere woman shall encompass a man.

  note

   I believe she's a free woman...formed from His side..when he was put to death..and the water and

  blood come forth.  Psalms 2;3 He makes me lie down in green pastures,he leads me beside

  quiet waters, He re-stores my soul.[Psalm 19;7  the law of the Lord is perfect reviving the soul]

    Watchmen Nee has a book out...I haven't read it all..but a some of what I have readI agree

  with..    he finds it exclusionary..  when He put's his laws in the mind..His spirit..the soul is re-newed..re-stored........

   Never agin will the uncircumcized enter you..to me..means..never again..the wicked spirit

contrast[thought lawlessness] to enter the newly restored creature[immortality/incorruption.]

   I agree with the premise of the root being removed...every plant that my Father did not plant

shall be pulled up by the roots....HOWEVER...not until harvest..lest ye uproot the wheat.

 

    .....it was 'granted' her...to be clothed in clean white linen........

   When a king sit's on his throne to judge,he winnows out evil with his eyes.

    Proverbs 20;9  Who can say,'I have kept my heart pure,I am clean and without sin,?"  Differing

weights and differing measures,the Lord detests them both.....

   The Most Beautiful of women...is a new creature[spirit,soul,bdy] a woman created of God from

  the son of God's side.

  Rev 21;5  He who was seated on the throne said ' I AM MAKING EVERYTHING NEW!  Then He said..

   WRITE THIS DOWN,FOR THESE WORDS ARE TRUSTWORTHY AND TRUE


   by no means am I discouragining the pressing in..the drawing nigh to Him..but all must realize

  it is ...'by MY SPIRIT" that anything is overcome,renewed,saved or created.


  leaven of the Pharisee's and Sadducees  inMt 16  were seeking after a sign..but He told them the

only sign they would get was the sign of Jonah.  so..they set 'guards' over the tomb..and to this

day..that same spirit places guards over the tombs.

  then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread,

but to guard against the 'teaching' of the Pharisee's and sadducee's.

  you see...they said some-one[His disciples] stole His dead body[dead shell]


     the last enemy 'death' is overcome.  not many believe..unto the saving of the soul...

 
  .

[micah7:9]

 It is true that we all speak of "THE soul" as if there is a separate entity inside of our body that is called "the soul."  Not true. Without the spirit there is NO SOUL. Without the body there is NO SOUL.  Take a blue piece if transparent plastic or cellophane. Place it half way over a same size piece of yellow cellophane. You will have blue on one side, yellow on the other, and GREEN in the middle. The blue is the body, the yellow is the spirit, and the GREEN IS THE SOUL.  Notice that there is NO SOUL without the blue body and the yellow spirit. Separate the blue and yellow cellophane and the GREEN soul disappears. This is exactly how the human soul must be combined with a body and spirit, or IT DOES NOT EVEN EXIST. They are very closely related and appear to overlap, but there are distinction between soul and spirit.

[micah7:9]

I too, until recent years, referred to man as having three "components"--body, soul, and spirit.  NOT TRUE. Man is made of TWO components--body and spirit. God never put a soul into Adam. The soul of man is not a component, but rather the product of two combined components, namely: body and spirit. God formed man's body out of the ground. He then breathed into this body the breath of life (spirit), and the MAN, not some separate component, but the man became a "LIVING SOUL."  The soul is not the living soul, but rather the man is the living soul. There is no soul without the body of man.  Understood?  God is not a trinity and neither is man a trinity. :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

   I want to share an expierence I had.  shortly after I came out of a very legalistic religion..that

  believed in eternal death...and had recently learned about the salvation of all men...I had a dream.

   in this dream,my mother was naked and lying in a ditch,dead.  I become very upset..and began

  ministering unto her..clothed her..got her out of the ditch..and up into a chair...my mother was

  alive.

  when I had and believed dragon breath/doctrines of demons...my mother dead in the ditch....

  blind guides leading the blind both fall in the ditch..that was my deceived reality........

   but when the scales fell off my eyes..and the salvation/reconciliation of all men was declared

to me and believed..my spirit was quickened.... 

   when we judge the dead as unworthy of life/resurrection/grace/restoration and the love of God

because they do not not meet our 'preconceived' religious idea of what/who should be resurrected

THAT SPIRIT IN ME PRESENTED ITSELF AS GOD IN MY TEMPLE..it took the breath of Christ to

consume that spirit in me..and He did away with it..with the glory of His coming to me......

   .

[sheila]

all ten virgins slept[an enemy hath done this   in the night[sown tares]

   a call went out..the Bridegroom cometh!!  those that were ready/had enough oil/trimmed wick

  went in.

[sheila]

 the Good Samaritan............the priest,levite and the good samaritan.........the Lord..with the breath

  of His coming changed me from one who was concerned with ' religious ritual purity'..into the good

  samaritan.  I prefer the good samaritan.....now, the Lrd said,at one time..ye samritans know not

what ye worship.........but then agains He said 'I will make ye envious by a people without knowledge

   Romans 10;19

[sheila]

Isaaih 30;21-22  whether you turn to the right or to the left,you will hear a voice behind you

saying,'this is the way,walk in it. Then you will defile your idols overlaid with silver and gold[think

babylon religious image here]  you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them

  'away with you!"[o'virgin daughter babylon]

  Isaaih 55;1-4   Come! All you who are thirsty,come to the waters;and you who have no money

come buy and eat! Come,buy wine and milk,without money and without cost.  Why spend

money on what is not bread,and your labour on what does not satisfy?

  Listen,listen to me.........and your soul will delight in the richest of fare.  Give ear and come

to me; hear me..that your soul may live.


   Rev 18;2  With a mighty voice he shouted;  Fallen,fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become

  a home for demons[doctrines] and a haunt for every evil spirit,a haunt for every unclean

detestable bird.......

   Isaaih 35;8   And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean

[from now on call no man unclean]will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in the Way.

  wicked fools will not go about on it. No lion will be there,nor any ferocious beast get up on it,

they will not be found there. But only the redeemed[all men bought with His blood] will walk

there, and the ransomed of the LOrd will return. They will enter Zion with singing[bringing

in the sheaves]  everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them

and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

[Jock]

Sheila

Enjoyed those posts, especially the one about the Samaritan. The Jews viewed them as unclean and they were enemies of the Jews, but not this man! He was commended by Yeshua because he had a good heart. The Lord has promised that He will take away our hearts of stone and give us hearts of flesh. I say "yay and Amen".

Micah, one question: If God is not a trinity, therefore we are not a trinity. In what manner are we formed in the image of God? If we have no soul at death, what rises to God at His call? Can't be our body, our spirit is already gone. Sounds like God may re join body with spirit, giving us a spiritual body. Oh well, just some meanderings in my grey matter.


Shalom :banana: :banana:


Jock

[sheila]

Look! John 8;48-51  The jews answered him,'aren't we right in saying you are a samaritan,

and demon-possessed?   I AM not possessed by a demon,Jesus said, but I honour My Father

and you dishonour me....

   

[Cardinal]

   administration of death...Law covenant..written for the lawless   is death,short of grace/Jesus

Christ/resurrection.   the very religious self-righteous pharisees and sadducees/lawyers..as

the offspring of vipers..who sat in Moses seat. judging law unlawfully.epitomize this very spirit.

  [ifthey had known..they would not of crucified the Lord]

   among those born of women[soul] there was nne mre righteous than John the Baptist...what's

born of flesh is flesh


the Lord will create something new in the earth....a mere woman shall encompass a man.

  note

   I believe she's a free woman...formed from His side..when he was put to death..and the water and

  blood come forth.  Psalms 2;3 He makes me lie down in green pastures,he leads me beside

  quiet waters, He re-stores my soul.[Psalm 19;7  the law of the Lord is perfect reviving the soul]

    Watchmen Nee has a book out...I haven't read it all..but a some of what I have readI agree

  with..    he finds it exclusionary..  when He put's his laws in the mind..His spirit..the soul is re-newed..re-stored........

   Never agin will the uncircumcized enter you..to me..means..never again..the wicked spirit

contrast[thought lawlessness] to enter the newly restored creature[immortality/incorruption.]

   I agree with the premise of the root being removed...every plant that my Father did not plant

shall be pulled up by the roots....HOWEVER...not until harvest..lest ye uproot the wheat.

My  :2c:.....For any reading my next few posts, Sheila and I are friends, so no contention here if we disagree....we just.....disagree.  :Peace2:

And that's what I'm trying to explain. It WAS a harvest. The soul coming into union with the Spirit IS the first resurrection and the resurrection IS a harvest. You apparently think it didn't happen because "THE HARVEST" hasn't happened yet, according to the "church" doctrine?

The 7th day that HE IS and that WE are to be one with (our DAY OF REST), is no part darkness FOR THAT REASON, the soul has been cleansed = no more works of the Holy Ghost needing to be done, the flesh (that the soul birthed) is no longer warring against the Spirit (because it's been removed/consumed) = HIS peace, a part of the KINGDOM. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy. It's not a place, it's a PERSON, we put on, like a GARMENT. However, remember no fornicators, idolators, covenant breakers (soul not in covenant/union with Spirit) shall enter in.

THIS IS the "marriage"/union of soul and Spirit, and since it's all about Him, HE has to do the finishing work; we have to be willing and press in. His bride is NOT our flesh body, the flesh profits NOTHING, without a soul and only His Spirit you'd have JESUS, the "you" part of the equation would be non-existent.

Some people think they've proved the harvest hasn't come already (for ANYONE), not realizing or taking to heart what He said. The woman at the well said I know I shall rise in the last day. Jesus, correcting her, said, I AM THE RESURECCTION (or the last day). That's the same as saying He's the 7th day, the day of rest, no part darkness, the Holy of Holies in pattern where only God was, and because of that, NO DEATH, NO DARKNESS.

That means, that just as He told the woman 2000 years ago, paraphrasing, I AM THE SEVENTH DAY, THE DAY OF NO PART DARKNESS, THE REST MOSES COULDN'T GIVE. And because the 7th day is a SON, and that son is a SPIRIT, it has no beginning and no end, ie. no earthly time was EVER a boundary to entering into that which is beyond the veil via a resurrection, of which Elijah was a type while still in the body. Moses is the type of those that are resurrected after death of the body, who died in his sin. Yet both were alive in Him, WAY BEFORE the resurrection the "church" looks for to happen.

So TODAY, harden not your hearts/soul (stony heart instead of replacing it with celestial/Spiritual flesh) and LIVE.

 

    .....it was 'granted' her...to be clothed in clean white linen........

   When a king sit's on his throne to judge,he winnows out evil with his eyes.

    Proverbs 20;9  Who can say,'I have kept my heart pure,I am clean and without sin,?"  Differing

weights and differing measures,the Lord detests them both.....

   The Most Beautiful of women...is a new creature[spirit,soul,bdy] a woman created of God from

  the son of God's side.

  Rev 21;5  He who was seated on the throne said ' I AM MAKING EVERYTHING NEW!  Then He said..

   WRITE THIS DOWN,FOR THESE WORDS ARE TRUSTWORTHY AND TRUE


   by no means am I discouragining the pressing in..the drawing nigh to Him..but all must realize

  it is ...'by MY SPIRIT" that anything is overcome,renewed,saved or created.

Never said it wasn't. Just the opposite.


  leaven of the Pharisee's and Sadducees  inMt 16  were seeking after a sign..but He told them the

only sign they would get was the sign of Jonah.  so..they set 'guards' over the tomb..and to this

day..that same spirit places guards over the tombs.

  then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread,

but to guard against the 'teaching' of the Pharisee's and sadducee's.

  you see...they said some-one[His disciples] stole His dead body[dead shell]

And that spirit still tries and does claim the shell because it bears in it's body the FRUIT of the ROOTS = death, from SIN. And so Jesus, who ALONE possessed His soul exclusively, could say (and then demonstrate with a resurrection proving it), the prince of this world cometh and he hath nothing IN ME. It is not good for man/spirit to be alone, and so He created a soul in union/covenant. When the soul sinned, first it broke covenant with God, and then covenant with man/Adam.

Tell me-can you (or anyone else) claim that the Spirit of God possesses their own soul at this moment and that the enemy of our souls has nothing in us? I can't. True to pattern, I offer up sacrifices of that carnal beastly nature daily, and await the fire to consume the roots. What about if you died tomorrow? What was there about death that changed that condition of the soul laden with sins? NOTHING. BUT we have a promise that He will not leave our soul in "hell" (separated), and that promise fulfilled is what I (and the people with me) was a witness to.


     the last enemy 'death' is overcome. not many believe..unto the saving of the soul...

EXACTLY.

 
  .

[Cardinal]

   I want to share an expierence I had.  shortly after I came out of a very legalistic religion..that

  believed in eternal death...and had recently learned about the salvation of all men...I had a dream.

   in this dream,my mother was naked and lying in a ditch,dead.  I become very upset..and began

  ministering unto her..clothed her..got her out of the ditch..and up into a chair...my mother was

  alive.

  when I had and believed dragon breath/doctrines of demons...my mother dead in the ditch....

  blind guides leading the blind both fall in the ditch..that was my deceived reality........

   but when the scales fell off my eyes..and the salvation/reconciliation of all men was declared

to me and believed..my spirit was quickened.... 

   when we judge the dead as unworthy of life/resurrection/grace/restoration and the love of God

because they do not not meet our 'preconceived' religious idea of what/who should be resurrected

THAT SPIRIT IN ME PRESENTED ITSELF AS GOD IN MY TEMPLE..it took the breath of Christ to

consume that spirit in me..and He did away with it..with the glory of His coming to me......

My  :2c:.....I didn't judge the dead of ANYTHING. I was shown her condition in the Spirit, BEFORE she died, and for this reason, I asked for months to tell me the truth (no "Christian" fairy tales) of what happens to us after death. In His mercy, He took the image from me that I was shown initially, giving me the choice as to whether or not I wanted to remember what I had been shown (because of the shock value). I awoke KNOWING I had seen something horrible.

I told Him that I was willing if it would help her, and I prayed for about 10 minutes, and then He let me remember what I had seen. THAT is what prompted all of this, not MY judging of the dead, or any "preconceived" ideas or "religious spirit", ect. If I had stayed true to the religious spirit doctrines the "church" believe, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Blessings....

   .

[Cardinal]

Isaaih 30;21-22  whether you turn to the right or to the left,you will hear a voice behind you

saying,'this is the way,walk in it. Then you will defile your idols overlaid with silver and gold[think

babylon religious image here]  you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them

  'away with you!"[o'virgin daughter babylon]

  Isaaih 55;1-4   Come! All you who are thirsty,come to the waters;and you who have no money

come buy and eat! Come,buy wine and milk,without money and without cost.  Why spend

money on what is not bread,and your labour on what does not satisfy?

  Listen,listen to me.........and your soul will delight in the richest of fare.  Give ear and come

to me; hear me..that your soul may live.


   Rev 18;2  With a mighty voice he shouted;  Fallen,fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become

  a home for demons[doctrines] and a haunt for every evil spirit,a haunt for every unclean

detestable bird.......

:cloud9:My  :2c: As for Babylon.....Babylon is not exclusively the "churches", but the world system rulership in general, including the rulership of our "world", our flesh. She sits upon the heads of men, usurping the rulership of the Holy Ghost, which is why tongues of fire come upon our heads.

And so, we see a bunch of unclean birds eating the bread out of the baker's basket/nest on his head. Bread/word that is not taken down into the heart, to make clean the inside of the cup as well as the outside, is the same as the seed that fell by the way side that the birds ate. Unclean birds in the OT, are scavengers, ie. they only eat DEAD flesh/doctrines, not life producing meat/celestial flesh (of the Word).

Mark 4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:  4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Contrast with the CUPbearer, who is symbolic of new wine/redeemed soul, who is raised alive.
BOTH were in prison, but only one was raised alive (resurrection Paul talked about).



   Isaaih 35;8   And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean

[from now on call no man unclean]will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in the Way.

  wicked fools will not go about on it. No lion will be there,nor any ferocious beast get up on it,

they will not be found there. But only the redeemed[all men bought with His blood] will walk

there, and the ransomed of the LOrd will return. They will enter Zion with singing[bringing

in the sheaves]  everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them

and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

[micah7:9]

So, where does a person, a soul, human being... go when they die, expire, quite the breath of life? Be that a believer or non believer?

[jabcat]

hi micah..with your view on the soul (which I've certainly thought about), how does this scripture fit with your view?  how do you interpret it?

And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

thanks

[WhiteWings]

If God is not a trinity, therefore we are not a trinity. In what manner are we formed in the image of God?

What's translated as image can also mean "representative"

[sheila]

  I think we can complicate it more then we should,and not see the forest for the trees........

  Adam become a living soul.......the soul that is sinning will die[corrupt image that all men bear]

  God destroys the corrupt image[see satan demons in lof 'harmed' of 2nd death...]..

   the soul is the active nature/personality/mind/heart image that resides and lives and breathes

   within the body. two natures..one in corrupt image/one in the incorruptible...we have been

  instructed in the scriptures..that as all men have bore the image...of the corruptible one..so,too

shall all men bear the image of the incorruptible.

   Born again from above is the seeding f this nature again in man.  Adam/man originally had this

nature instilled in him[make man in our image].....when deception and temptation led into

  sin...the soul 'imprint' nature of the corrupt one become active in man's being...He had lost

  his soul in the image of the incorruptible one..[abomination in  God's temple]

  but we are double garmeted tokogae...and  we have an outer and inner[man]  unless a kernal

of wheat fall to the earth and die..it can not bear much fruit unto heaven....[seed has hard outer

covering that dissolves].

    there is a 'secret/hidden person[ality] of the heart in man?Adam...that God called 'good"....

   'only God is good'.....and God is perfecting man in His image 'incorruptible'..ye must be perfect.

  ALL men shall bear the image of the incorruptible...that includes the soul.



     

[rosered]

 

  Love the different  views and sharing  those  thoughts
that everyone  explained  in some detail    ..
for me the scriptures says alot  about the deep sleep of Adam /the living soul God created  by breathing the breath of life in Him  and about  bringing out the woman /Eve  mother of  the living   that was hidden within his insides ..
But  it does not say he was awake  or eyes opened until     they both knew sin/error  by  eating    of the tree of knowledge of good and evil    ..
  for me that was  the biggest  clue 
and the DAY they eat they would die    so the  awaking to sin and death was   the  curse of Adam that we all die in ...


  for me  and this is just what I also see   is this life /world is   the watery grave /hell     with the sea many  peoles tounges and nations  ... 
  and what seperates  the believers from the non believers  , those born again ?
 
faith , hope and love    are the  main  factors  of the new Life within us given by the gift of God though Jesus Christ           they are the sparks    to ignite our hearts  the promise  of the HOLY GHOST and fire       ... becoming  on fire   for God  as God is a comsuming fire
without faith its impossble to please God  , the  faith of the son of God making many sons of God born again
and hope   , the Christ in you the hope of glory to the Father     , this verse helps me to see it clearer But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 


1Co 15:14   And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 


1Co 15:15   Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 


1Co 15:16   For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 


1Co 15:17   And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 


1Co 15:18   Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 


1Co 15:19   If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 


1Co 15:20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 


1Co 15:21   For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 


1Co 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 


1Co 15:23   But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 


1Co 15:24   Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 


1Co 15:25   For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 


1Co 15:26   The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death

this to me explines how straighted / pushed Jesus was to accomplish   the baptism   in Luke 12  :49  this dividing and seperating us all    unto Him  ,, this also explines the    coming  first to   cleans us  and make room for His   work and presence   ,  when He comes the 2nd time its without sin / error   for those awaitning Him to complete the short work  and  finnish  it

   than death /mortality is  swallowed up in mortality   ...   I believe some as Paul also witnessed to  had this  done in this life  , though they went on to die as men  ...... seeing    the mortal     was never meant to   live forever   in the first place ...   for me its the devils short time to influence     mortal man to sin and error   by lusting after those temporary things this  life offers
  but is not  eternal   or always   making it sin /error  against the will of God  , we have to remeber what we are      that is born again sons of God that inherit     those gifts of God though Christ by  the HOLY SPIRIT   union of the Father and Son .....  there is no other relationship    to build upon    that  will never be broken   nor destroyed       , its the perfect   that we all desire to be complete in  each and everyone of us  , it is His work  and glory   we seek   to be complete   within us all   in  HIS DAY AND LIGHT

[micah7:9]

hi micah..with your view on the soul (which I've certainly thought about), how does this scripture fit with your view?  how do you interpret it?

And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

thanks

I find myself reeling in my mind with this verse the most. Yet, imo, it is the words "kill" and "destroy" that the understanding comes clearer to me. I find      Rotherham(i) 28 And be not in fear, by reason of them that are killing the body,—and, the soul, are not able to kill. But fear, rather, him who is able, both soul and body, to destroy in gehenna! and     
Diaglott(i) 28 And not be afraid of those killing the body, the but life not being able to kill; be afraid but rather that being able both life and body to destroy in Gehenna.
Bring it where I understand it the best. I also take into consideration that Jesus was speaking to the disciples, Jesus was speaking using a parable.  The Christian Bible uses the word "sentient" in the place of soul which I imo gives me more insight.
Say I am strapped to a post and being tortured to death,  that's my body being killed; yet my faith remains held to Him, that's the sentient, soul, life; but HE can destroy the sentient, soul, my life and my body in the fire that burns out the wood, hay, stubble, trash, and when He is finished there is something useful.
He has given me to understand what I wrote, but I may not have written it for anyone else's understanding. Sorry

[gregoryfl]

Even with regard to the soul (nephesh), what we consist of, it can be said to be expressive of 3 parts:

Neshemah, which literally refers to our breath.

Ruach, which literally refers to our wind.

Nephesh, which literally refers to our inhaling and exhaling, coming to rest, as in being refreshed. (You can check out Exo 31:17 for an example of this cognate being used in this way)

When God made the body from the dust of the ground, all three of these words come into play in this way...

His neshemah left his mouth, travelled as a ruach, coming to rest as nephesh in its resting place, the body. Man being a nephesh is the noun form of this rested refreshment, an expression of how man and woman were originally be live, in a state of rested refreshment, of relaxed breathing in and out. When man dies, and the body goes back to the ground from which it came, the neshemah leaves man and travels as a ruach back to God who gave it.

All three of these aspects that make us who we are are affected in specific ways:

The neshemah (breath) is affected by our thoughts. We breathe differently depending on our thoughts.

The ruach (wind) by our speech. Ruach is the agent which carries the breath containing our verbal speech.

The nephesh is affected by our actions. We are either in a state of refreshment, or not, depending on what we do.

Ronen