Mark of the Beast 2

[Shev]

Just throwing this into the mix, that empires in the OT could represent sin, or at least spiritual rulership. For example, the promised land in the Book of Hebrews correlates with the peace of God, his rest. Back then, Israel was delivered from Egypt into the promised land. Egypt seems to me to be an excellent representation of what "carnal sold into sin" is, in contrast to the promised land. I could also see that in how Revelation uses Babylon and correlates it to wine that makes men drunk and in madness.

Excellent points Seth. I have always seen Babylon as the bondage of religion that is entered into some time after release from the first bondage of Egypt/sin/the world. Babylon must have been a beautiful place, and it is interesting that only a remnant had a heart to go back and rebuild the gates of Jerusalem and the Temple of God.

[eaglesway]

I definitely think Babylon, the great city, mystery Egypt and Sodom, wherein our Lord was crucified- represents an overall principle of the world system and the sinfulness in it, as well as "the god of this world, the spirirt that is now working in the sons of disobedience" and the principalities and powers, "rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms".

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Throughout the age, however that spiritual principle has manifested in earthly kingdoms, and they are also represented in the scriptures prophetically, which is why I think all of these aspects are a part of the picture, none to the exclusion of the other, and all of these aspects are elements of the whole and are incorporated in prophecy together both part and parcel.

The earthly empires are manifestations of heavenly empires, such as in Daniel, the prince(principality) of Persia vs Michael, the prince of Israel. The similarity, for instance when the Assyrians surrounded Jerusalem under Hezekiah, and sought to "wear out the saints"(with seige) and spoke blasphemies against God(Rabshekeh) - with the prophecy Paul made about the one who exalts himself against God and every so-called god-this conflict has replayed itself in earthly kingdoms from Babel, through all the earthly empires of Daniels statue with the head of gold, until the "little stone" of the kingdom strikes the feet of clay and iron and shatters the cycle once and for all- which is still in process and awaiting completion at the end of this age.

[marie glen]

I definitely think Babylon, the great city, mystery Egypt and Sodom, wherein our Lord was crucified- represents an overall principle of the world system and the sinfulness in it, as well as "the god of this world, the spirirt that is now working in the sons of disobedience" and the principalities and powers, "rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms".

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Throughout the age, however that spiritual principle has manifested in earthly kingdoms, and they are also represented in the scriptures prophetically, which is why I think all of these aspects are a part of the picture, none to the exclusion of the other, and all of these aspects are elements of the whole and are incorporated in prophecy together both part and parcel.

The earthly empires are manifestations of heavenly empires, such as in Daniel, the prince(principality) of Persia vs Michael, the prince of Israel. The similarity, for instance when the Assyrians surrounded Jerusalem under Hezekiah, and sought to "wear out the saints"(with seige) and spoke blasphemies against God(Rabshekeh) - with the prophecy Paul made about the one who exalts himself against God and every so-called god-this conflict has replayed itself in earthly kingdoms from Babel, through all the earthly empires of Daniels statue with the head of gold, until the "little stone" of the kingdom strikes the feet of clay and iron and shatters the cycle once and for all- which is still in process and awaiting completion at the end of this age.

..that was very well said! and I totally agree ....And to my understanding it's a war that has been going on since that first act of sedition and trickery in Eden..

Which I think of as especially summed up in the Bk of Revelation, Jerusalem as God's city, and Babylon, imo, is man's (w/o God) empire $ity.. and is also Satan's city.. which babels on and on.. a confusion of voices/untruth, the psyce/forehead being "the great"/mystery babylon/all untruth "responsible for all slain upon the earth"

[marie glen]

Also, there are beasts in prophecies from Ezekiel, Daniel, others- they are ALWAYS empires. I dont think anyone can show me a single example where they are not(but feel free to, maybe I am wrong :). Also the statue(image) from Daniel. Head of Gold(Babylon) neck of silver(Media-Persia) etc. For that reason I think the two beasts of Rev 13 are also likely empires, with the dragon as perhaps a spiritual principality reigning over them.

..it's interesting to me how the beast of rev 13:1-10 cross references with the beast, "unlike the others" in Daniel chapter 7, both have ten horns, but Daniels' description adds teeth of iron and claws of brass (or bronze) and in Daniel's interpretation of the dream statue of Dan chapter 2, most Bible commentaries agree the iron in the statue is Rome and the brass/bronze is Greece.. ("iron teeth / columns of iron? "what the iron doesn't break, the bronze will scatter" Greek human secular?)

Everyone looks for a revived roman empire (and are stuck in yesteryear) but i can't help remembering being taught in school how western civilization was built on the "Roman/Graeco" foundation. So i find myself thinking of the world empire of 'last days' as being grounded or coming from western civilization and I see in the world the u.n which once was and then wasn't but expired (because it's head or origin of it, the u.s. didn't sign on after all, but after the fire of ww2 the world was convinced to rebuild it - all i believe in Rev chapter 13.

..an image to the (world empire) beast, I think of as a panel (of ten divisions) but of course it could be an image of that.. brought to life, or "given breath", I think of as (finally) the world body given authority.. when the 2nd one of the chapter, steps into the main seat of it.. its head now in place..

it's my belief the main revealing light on the chapter is verse 13, which i believe pinpoints an office, not a person, per se, and I believe 13:13 WAS A HUGE EVENT OF THE PAST -oops caps, but i think I'll leave them..

Feet like a leapard(Germany?), mouth like a lion(UK?), body like a bear(Russia?), If this is an empire still to come it could be, a Euro/Russian combination. And another beast coming after like a Lamb with two horns out of it? I think this is very possible.

..there was something about the mouth of a lion (U.K?) i recently came across or was pondering..  :Chinscratch: ..oh yes, was Charles Darwin from England? I've long felt the "mouth" of last days "speaking great things" is evolution (as to origins) which declares man the higher power/god!

But :dontknow: so many think both beasts of rev 13 are the same, and is also the false prophet(teacher/teaching?) and also think babylon the great is the same, although, thankfully, many new theories about Bible prophecy have evolved and moved on from thinking all the revelation characters are the RCC and/ or the pope.. stuck in yesteryear they were, and some still are.. no offense to anyone! :Peace2:

...to me the mark, what ever it turns out to be, having monetary implications sure seems to fit into our present world and (going) global economy/($ity, imo)

I don't put my foot down on something unless I feel it satisfies all the scriptures relating to it.

:2c:

      :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I would say that is THE attitude all believers should have!

[CHB]

"Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

eaglesway, wouldn't this be referring to Israel? Jesus was crucified at Golgotha. I believe it was on the Mount of Olives.

CHB

[micah7:9]

Jerusalem.

[marie glen]

..that even earthly Jerusalem has been part of the fallen city/world of earth..?

[CHB]

Jerusalem.

Yes.

CHB

[micah7:9]

In the very first book of the Bible, Genesis, we have mention of physical Sodom and Egypt (Genesis 13:10), but in the very last book of the Bible we have mentioned "spiritual" Sodom and Egypt (Rev. 11:8.
Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
And where was our Lord crucified? In literal Sodom? NO. In literal Egypt? NO. He was crucified in Jerusalem, which is now for prophetic purposes, "SODOM & EGYPT!"

[marie glen]

amen, prophecy -

Revelation 16:14-16Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

14 for they are spirits of demons, doing signs -- which go forth unto the kings of the earth, and of the whole world, to bring them together to the battle of that great day of God the Almighty; --
15 `lo, I do come as a thief; happy [is] he who is watching, and keeping his garments, that he may not walk naked, and they may see his unseemliness,' --
16 and they did bring them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon.


Luke 21:20 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

20 `And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;


Revelation 11:2,8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

2 "and the court that is without the sanctuary leave out, and thou mayest not measure it, because it was given to the nations, and the holy city they shall tread down forty-two months...8 and their" (the 2 witnesses') "dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)"


Matthew 5:34-35 New King James Version (NKJV)

34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

Zechariah 12:3 King James Version (KJV)
  - Conflict Israel/Jerusalem:

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.


Zechariah 12:7-9

7"The LORD also will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah. 8"In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD before them. 9"And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem."


Zechariah 14:3-4 King James Version (KJV)

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


Matthew 23:38-39 New King James Version (NKJV)

38 "See!" (Jerusalem) "Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' "


..with..?? Revelation 12:17 New King James Version (NKJV)

17 "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and" (by then?) "have the testimony of Jesus Christ."


Romans 11:15 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 "For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?" - (the 1st resurrection/Jesus' return)
Romans 11:15Contemporary English Version (CEV)
15 "When Israel rejected God, the rest of the people in the world were able to turn to him. So when God makes friends with Israel, it will be like bringing the dead back to life."