Mark of the Beast 2

[Seth]

Here is the manner in which I understand Jesus taking away sin:

1 John 3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

To me, that's what it's all about. Salvation from sin, from whatever lacks in faith and love.

[sheila]

Happy and Holy are those who partake of the first resurrection! These are all men delivered from wickedness..each in their own order

   they are former humans that have put on immortality..and God gives them life eternal! they are ALL raised up and changed into

  the image of Jesus Christ..they are just like HIM!!! they see him face to face.....

   the secound resurrection is the beast that was,is not, yet is and shall go off into perdition[satan released to decieve..to fight

  against the camp of the Holy city[men still in flesh temporally]  Satan's release and doom.

     satan desired to place his throne above the stars of God[they that lead the many to righteousness shall be as the stars] the dragon

  overcome the saints[churches] casting them to the ground and trampling[beast killed wittness of Jesus,God,Holy spirit that

God has forgiven man.].and is triumphing in mercy over judgement in man] and instead of eternally destroying man; is saving him and

making him over in the image of His son. what satan thinks he possessed[man in corrupt image],shall be taken away from him.

    the beast is the twice dead...without fruit..for this is ALL THE FRUIT WHEN HE TAKES AWAY ALL THEIR SINS

   

[eaglesway]

Yeah but the Bible says that the mark will be not on the object by on the hand and forehead. The actual fruit doesn't have the mark on it. It doesn't say anything in Revelation 13 about the actual products having the mark. That's what I never understood about the barcode theory.

I've been reading that there is already an implant being used that scans barcodes for medical and security purposes. There is a bar code on drivers licenses and license plates, and I have been reading about a system where there is one number for every person including telephone, soc security, financial info etc.. At some point this may all come together with a transaction having spiritual consequences. I think it is worth watching.

I think the beast is a spiritual image but these spiriual images often find a prime manifestation in the earth in history.

[Seth]

Yeah but the Bible says that the mark will be not on the object by on the hand and forehead. The actual fruit doesn't have the mark on it. It doesn't say anything in Revelation 13 about the actual products having the mark. That's what I never understood about the barcode theory.

I've been reading that there is already an implant being used that scans barcodes for medical and security purposes. There is a bar code on drivers licenses and license plates, and I have been reading about a system where there is one number for every person including telephone, soc security, financial info etc.. At some point this may all come together with a transaction having spiritual consequences. I think it is worth watching.

I think the beast is a spiritual image but these spiriual images often find a prime manifestation in the earth in history.

It might, but unless it's written, nobody can judge it. Not even having a barcode on your forehead would make one lawless in itself. Only if it affects faith and love can it be lawlessness. IMHO, and at that point the barcode itself isn't to blame, but the heart of man. I think God judges based on what proceeds from the heart.

[Seth]

Paul says that those who are doing the work of the Lord cannot be judged as to their motives. To say that someone who believes in Jesus and loves his neighbor has an implant for medical reasons has accepted the mark of the beast (not that you are saying that, but some might) now has the impossible task of proving that through the unchanging scripture, to avoid going above what is written. What is written? How do we not go above it? No matter what happens with technology, only sin is condemned by the Bible, and I'm not sure how using implants and barcodes could be shown to be sinful of themselves.

[eaglesway]

I agree with that entirely. As I said, it would have to be combined in the form of leverage with a spiritual transaction, such as allegiance to an unholy spirit. Similar to the declaring of the Ceasars as gods and forcing people to acknowledge it, or not, such as during certain periods during the Roman Empire- but probably more sophisticated than that. It is certainly as possible as any other theory, imo. The inclusion of the idea of not being able to buy or sell without it gives credibility to the concept for me- as we are steadily progressing in that direction. The guise is to prevent terrorism and collect taxes and prevent black markets, but once in place it could be subverted for any purpose.

This is why I think we are still quite some distance from the end of the age, but who knows, these control mechanisms are developing exponentially for sure.

I propose that an imminent collapse of the present system, the foundations of which are being undercut by corruption, will usher in a transition to a much more oppressive system than anything we now see, is very possible, even likely.

Also, I did not say that anyone who accepted an implant would be receiving the mark of the beast, if you re-read my post, I said that it is a possibility that uch a systemm could be subverted for control at some point, and an unholy pledge of some type could be required. I also said that I see this as a "possible", and I think reasonable, thing to watch.

For something like this to occur, it would obviously be presented as benign.

[Seth]

I agree with that entirely. As I said, it would have to be combined in the form of leverage with a spiritual transaction, such as allegiance to an unholy spirit. Similar to the declaring of the Ceasars as gods and forcing people to acknowledge it, or not, such as during certain periods during the Roman Empire- but probably more sophisticated than that. It is certainly as possible as any other theory, imo. The inclusion of the idea of not being able to buy or sell without it gives credibility to the concept for me- as we are steadily progressing in that direction. The guise is to prevent terrorism and collect taxes and prevent black markets, but once in place it could be subverted for any purpose.

This is why I think we are still quite some distance from the end of the age, but who knows, these control mechanisms are developing exponentially for sure.

I propose that an imminent collapse of the present system, the foundations of which are being undercut by corruption, will usher in a transition to a much more oppressive system than anything we now see, is very possible, even likely.

Also, I did not say that anyone who accepted an implant would be receiving the mark of the beast, if you re-read my post, I said that it is a possibility that uch a systemm could be subverted for control at some point, and an unholy pledge of some type could be required. I also said that I see this as a "possible", and I think reasonable, thing to watch.

For something like this to occur, it would obviously be presented as benign.

I agree. That's why we must be watchful of ourselves.  :thumbsup:

[Jock]

What if the dollar crashes? Being the world's de facto currency all fiat currency would fall. What about just chipping everyone? Every retail and commercial outlet would have a scanner, even gas stations, barber shops. God's people would have to go to a barter system and go out hunting to feed the family.

Just some thoughts

:Peace2:

Jock.

[Seth]

It seems to me that if the entire economy crashed, there wouldn't be money to chip everyone in the first place.

[Jock]

That's why they have already begun

[Seth]

Right, but if currency itself is useless after the dollar bombs ushering in a post apocalyptic era, what would be the use of chips? Currency would be useless anyway.

[Seth]

Forced implantation of chips would require pretty much a Totalitarian government. Nobody is getting that passed through Congress any time soon, and especially not the Supreme Court. So, my question is, if someone is forced to accept a chip and they don't have the strength to fight back, how would any Christian be able to tell that person he/she has accepted the "mark of the beast" without relying purely on personal theory about what the Bible implies, rather than what is literally written there?

[Jock]

Seth,

First of all, I don't think that governments would exist at least in their present form. I don't trust elected politicians anyway. All the power would come from Lucifer and his front man. It seems that one can deny the chip but what about old people or the disabled or mentally ill? People will cry out for order and anything the powers that be throw at them in a tense nerve jangling scenario on the streets under martial law. It would be as you say "a totalitarian government". As with Hitler, he just got rid of the "useless people" as they were called; undermunshen (under people) But, none of that could happen in America, right? We are definitely marching in that direction.

Jock

[Seth]

Regardless of whatever the mark of the beast is, one must also worship his image to be in danger of the lake of fire. Being implanted with a chip isn't enough, even if in fact that is what the mark is. This still all just theory. What can be troublesome is when/if folks use theories to mark and classify others as a "them" category based on fitting their personal ideas of what accepting the mark means.  Such fears I believe bring about a paranoia about all manner of thing which I think is unhealthy and unnecessary.

[dajomaco]

Put a totem pole in my front yard and a smiling Buddha in my back yard
and give me the mark of the beast .

None of that changes the fact that Jesus the son of God died for our sins all sins.
If I see my neighbour starving and I could get food for them  I would.
I know that there is  no power greater than Love with or without a mark.

I agree with Seth.
Feed my sheep.

[eaglesway]

It wouldnt have to be forced.(If it happens, just speculating on the logic of it here). It isnt being forced now, in the many places where it is already occuring. Perhaps you will simply have the option to not participate in the economy. Totally up to you. ;o)

America is already becoming a totalitarian society. Democracy and representative government in this country is as big a myth as communism was in the USSSR. "Strengthen the things that remain and are about to fall" definitely applies, so even tho there is no logical process that says it would have to be forced- it could be a part of the great delusion of the last days and seduced (Seducers and deceivers will wax worse and worse), or at some point, some major upheaval in our nation, which is already teetering on the edge of a cultural and economic implosion, could give way to a much more openly totalitarian(implemented through national bureaucracy) state.

Very likely in my opinion.

But I agree with Seth on the issue of how destructive it can be when people start attaching "the mark" to things like denominational church attendence, or worshipping on Sunday, or being a Catholic, etc, etc, etc.

As yet, it is all theory and speculation...... but it is an interesting discussion, it is in the word of God and it can also be counterproductive to criticize someone for discussing it. Why not look into these things, seeking wisdom form the spirit of God and the relative scriptures- and just maintain a light handed, theoretcial attitude towards it. :o)

[micah7:9]

Worshiping the image G1504  eikōn   a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance

Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would be fond of its own. Now, seeing that you are not of the world, but I choose you out of the world, therefore the world is hating you."
Ecc 3:18  I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

imo simply should the Spirit not be changing you in to the sons of God, the beast is what you will represent and what you will worship. :2c:

[dajomaco]

Everyone likes to think that if they knew what the mark of the beast
was they would not take it (brave)
They do believe that others (weaker) will take it.
They the brave will gather likeminded people around them creating a bond.
Some of those (boasters) will be the first to line up and denounce Christ.

Some of the early believers where led to deaths .
they refused to denounce Christ (filled with the Spirit)



Unless one is led by the Holy Spirit.
Love concurs all fears .

[Seth]

Worshiping the image G1504  eikōn   a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance

Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would be fond of its own. Now, seeing that you are not of the world, but I choose you out of the world, therefore the world is hating you."
Ecc 3:18  I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

imo simply should the Spirit not be changing you in to the sons of God, the beast is what you will represent and what you will worship. :2c:

Micah I totally agree with that. I believe the pillars of the New Covenant are faith and love (as born of the Spirit), and if we continue in those things we can be at peace and live without fear, because I don't believe the Lord would ever be angry with those who honestly pursue love and humility.

[Seth]

Everyone likes to think that if they knew what the mark of the beast
was they would not take it (brave)
They do believe that others (weaker) will take it.
They the brave will gather likeminded people around them creating a bond.
Some of those (boasters) will be the first to line up and denounce Christ.

Some of the early believers where led to deaths .
they refused to denounce Christ (filled with the Spirit)



Unless one is led by the Holy Spirit.
Love concurs all fears .

Right exactly. Nobody ever says, "Oh look at that, I HAVE the mark of beast myself." It's always "I'm Protestant, Catholics have the mark of the beast." or, "I believe in Saturday worship, so Sabbath worshippers have the mark of the beast." My personal opinion: according to Solomon, if want to have a look at a beast, have a look in the mirror. Tame that beast first before looking for marks on other people's heads.

[dajomaco]

The same way the Jews would boast about being circumcised and thus belonging to God.
Whether you are circumcised or not has no relevance.
Not taking the mark can be a boast that they belong to God because they did not take the mark.

The requirements for salvation are not Jesus plus circumcision.

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

Jesus plus heart circumcision. And what man can see the heart?

[marie glen]

Regardless of whatever the mark of the beast is, one must also worship his image to be in danger of the lake of fire. Being implanted with a chip isn't enough, even if in fact that is what the mark is. This still all just theory. What can be troublesome is when/if folks use theories to mark and classify others as a "them" category based on fitting their personal ideas of what accepting the mark means.  Such fears I believe bring about a paranoia about all manner of thing which I think is unhealthy and unnecessary.

Oh boy I sure agree with that! I hate all such accusations (beating each other, of the master's household as our Lord 'delays'? Mt 24)

But I agree with Seth on the issue of how destructive it can be when people start attaching "the mark" to things like denominational church attendence, or worshipping on Sunday, or being a Catholic, etc, etc, etc.

As yet, it is all theory and speculation...... but it is an interesting discussion, it is in the word of God and it can also be counterproductive to criticize someone for discussing it. Why not look into these things, seeking wisdom form the spirit of God and the relative scriptures- and just maintain a light handed, theoretcial attitude towards it. :o)

:iagree: :iagree:

[sheila]

 Bow down and do one act of worship and all these kingdoms of the earth[world] will be yours.....of what value is it for a man to

gain the whole world but lose his soul?[satan's doom]

  King Nebuchadnezzer's image=King of Babylon

   no other name by which we may be saved[Jesus Christ]

    Jezebel=Babylon Ahab=Satan, Naboth's vineyard coveted= foolishness of gospel preached/Lord's vineyard/owner's son killed

     he who does not have,even what he thinks he possesses will be taken away from him[King of Babylon given mind of beast

for 7 years,until his right mind given him,then he confessed it is God who rules/not man...and He gives it unto whom He desires

   IF THEY HAD KNOWN HE WAS THE KING OF GLORY THEY WOULD NOT HAVE CRUCIFIED HIM.....if they had known it was

the mark of the beast..they would not have taken it=ignorance..man without understanding...Father forgive them..they know

  NOT WHAT THEY DO

....just some ponderings.....

[dajomaco]

For I could almost wish to be cursed and cut off from the Messiah for the benefit of my brothers, my own flesh and blood. 

Love thy neighbors