:omg: willie you are one of the most long winded brothers I've ever had. LOL! I am waaayyyy too exhausted to reply tonight but hopefully will have the energy to give my two cents tomorrow.
Good night for now. :grave: (<--- that smiley is so fitting for these forums don't you think?) 

willieH: Hi lomarah...  :cloud9:

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 05:57:54 AM
:omg: willie you are one of the most long winded brothers I've ever had. LOL! I am waaayyyy too exhausted to reply tonight but hopefully will have the energy to give my two cents tomorrow.
Good night for now. :grave: (<--- that smiley is so fitting for these forums don't you think?)  

The WORD is quite DETAILED... I like to follow Its example in my answers...  :laughhand:

Some don't bother with details... I do!  :dontknow:

Due to Their length and DETAIL, one could say the Scriptures are a bit, "long winded" couldn't they?  :sigh:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Chris on December 22, 2009, 02:07:22 AMI wish you could 'see' the formatting on this forum while writing/editing, before posting. I don't know HOW 'you' DO IT? IS there a trick to it?   :winkgrin:

You can see the formatting before posting by clicking the "Preview" button.
But I doubt that was your question  :happy3:

LOF, Second Death , Unbelivers.

Ok, This is just "my thoughts" so i am not looking to debug it.

Second death is when the Seed of God is Awaken in you By Him when you become aware of his drawings, some call it born again, some call it saved, i call it Becoming One With God in your being. "in this life" ...immortal

The first death was when JC rose from the dead and brought Life to ALL THINGS AT THE CROSS Bought back the "all things" from the ruler of this then world- Death-carnality- devil if you like that saying, Adam's mark on humanity, Christ's mark on humanity is Life...

When an unbeliever becomes a believer "Belief in Christ" they die the second death, LOF I did like the drop of water analogy of fire of God, I think that is close enough to explain what I feel , All of us will feel the burning of God even after we are awakened to God, until we ALL are ALL IN ALL. Back to God

Okay I will reply to your first reply to my second reply first.  :laughhand:

Quoteif you are willing to learn, then new prospectives can come into your experience

Trust me, new perspectives are coming into my experience all the time... just ask my poor ET believing husband who thinks I am a heretic, or my former pastor and his wife who are convinced I am becoming more and more deceived and am going to "lead my daughter astray".

QuoteBeing that you are a very young person, it is more than possible that in my 33+years of study which exceed your age by several years, that I just might have some insights that you do not, both of LIFE (64) and of the content of the WORD...

I completely agree. I have much respect for my elders and their life experiences and perspectives.


I don't agree with what you believe about our having nothing to do in working out our salvation. Like you said, we could go into it but it would start another huge thread and I realllllly don't have the time nor the energy right now. (Btw my beliefs about this are backed up from someone who has heard directly from God... And no I do not believe that everyone who claims to have heard from God actually has, I am very cautious when it comes to that type of thing.)

QuoteWhat we are to "FEAR" (or, be "afraid of" = PHOBOS) is not GOD... but the things which are drawn into our circumstances by SOWING to the FLESH...

I agree that we should fear the consequences of sowing to the flesh, however I also believe we are to fear God like we would fear our own (good) earthly fathers who will punish us when we do something wrong. If you love your child you WILL punish them for doing wrong. And so will God, thankfully!

Hebrews 10:31 
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1 Peter 2:17 
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


Okay, onto the next reply, or "Part One":

QuoteSuch remarks are uncalled for lomarah...

Sorry I did get a little carried away there...  :GBlush:

QuoteGOD notes to be ALL in ALL... He also notes to be UNCHANGING... so if He IS "all in all" then He WAS "all in all" and ALWAYS WILL BE "all in all"...

Yeah I'm not really comprehending this... I thought Jesus had to reign until all His enemies are under His feet and then He gives all reign back to God and then God will be all in all?
Hebrews 2:8
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

  1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

   23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

   24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

   25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

   26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

   27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

   28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I understand that you don't consider time as linear and I sort of understand what you mean... but my brain really can't wrap itself around that concept very well.

Oop my daughter just woke up, I'll have to try and write the rest of my response later. Pleeeeeeeease don't respond to this until I at least get the chance to read your other posts and leave at least a short comment so that you know I read them?

Second death?

Paul said it was appointed for man to die ONCE and after that face the judgement.

I think everyones name is written in the Lambs book of life, because he came to save all the Father gave him...all.

Lets say after you die once, (Be awakened to the seed of God IN you and YOU IN Him){some say born again}, then you go through life on earth experencing the fires of correction to train you/us to be more God like.

Thats a good way of looking at it Lee.
To be honest, i dont get involved in too much thinking these days about anything, i just spend my time basking in love and focusing on that...Faith, hope, love and the greatest was love, love covers over a multitude of sins.  God is love?  That'l do me!  Love works no ill?  Thatll do me too then!...God will save all?  Great i wouldnt expect anything else from a being of love and the infinite power to carry out his (loving) will....

...Anything else i now consider a waste of my time, im a 'works' person, not because i feel i have to be, but because i want to be. Im at my best when im out fixing broken hearts and at my worst when im slouched in front of a book or a pc all day mindnumbing and trying to work things out which there are about a billion interpretations for (and most of them wrong) , trying to get my head through endless scipture interpretations, endless genalogies and old wives tales whilst getting more and more depressed about it and confused...

I have faith too, faith that God is love and will save all mankind as the scriptures promise and i leave it at that...How much more faith can i put in anyone?!

To me God isnt the author of confusion, he is love, and its pretty clear to me then that rather than sit around thinking all day about a load of krap, id be of far better use helping people.  I cant change the world, but i can change someone elses world.

Im not having a go at you or anyone else Lee, its just that the original guy who posted this is obviously confused enough as it is already and im hear to tell him that he doesnt need to know EVERYTHING.  All he needs to know is that God is love, Jesuss most important commandments was to love God, who is love and his neighbour as himself.
Jesus said that is the way to eternal life, and we know that eternal life is 'knowing God'. (love).

I would just hate anyone to go through what i went through with my confusion and depression, because you know what?  90% of the religious are desperate, lonely, confused, anxious people...and love takes all that crap, batters it round the head and lets people go free, its the most important thing to get right, and most people miss it, preferring to (*&^ their heads up constantly by trying to work everything out, many of them things that are hidden by God in the first place or things not even written for them but written for a particular people or person at a particular time in history and more often than not talking about something that has nothing to do that what most people think it has and there for the sole purpose of testing the human heart, mind and thoughts...sharper than a two edged sword, and really at the end of the day whatever they learn from it its not going to be better than love anyway...which is the most excellent way according to Paul and the way to know God.

I can personally add to this that God has only EVER really spoken to me when i have sought out love with all my heart.  The rest of the time he has said things to me like "Pick up your mat and walk".  (Thanks for that one God).
And recently he showed me the book of Joel where it says i should cry and weep and fast and then he would restore me till everything is running over in abundance (or somthing like that).
Ive had 2 miracles, both of which were brought about when i was at my most loving, and so thats what im going to concentrate on now, and i would urge others who have suffered in the name of constantly trying to work everything out to do the same....its more important. 

Quote from: WhiteWings on December 22, 2009, 10:28:52 AM

Quote from: Chris on December 22, 2009, 02:07:22 AMI wish you could 'see' the formatting on this forum while writing/editing, before posting. I don't know HOW 'you' DO IT? IS there a trick to it?   :winkgrin:

You can see the formatting before posting by clicking the "Preview" button.
But I doubt that was your question  :happy3:

Hey WhiteWings! Thanks for responding. :thumbsup: Yeah, I am aware of the preview pane; that's why I went back and deleted almost all of my formatting; it didn't look so hot when I previewed it. :laughing7: Would be nice to be able to see how your post will look as you type/format it, instead of seeing just the codes. vBulletin allows that, which is quite nice (especially when you just want to copy/paste something that is already formatted), but not many forums use it. CF and CARM do and there is one other that I post at that does, but I can't remember the domain name since it's been awhile since I have been there. No biggy!! I'll get back to lurking now.  :happygrin:

right on

Again im not dissing anyone, far from it, but ive heard all the so called great Bible teachers all my life with their "this means that and that means this" and none of them can come to any agreement.
It does more harm than good, it confuses people.

I want to write this for the benefit of the original poster, lest he get drawn in by long debates which really dont do anyone any good, but rather most of the time cause friction and disputes and are mostly a waste of time in my opinion.

The truth is we all have to give an account of OURSELVES to God and work out our OWN salvation.
When God judges me and says "Hey why did you do that you knew it was wrong for you", and if i say "Oh sorry God, thingy told to me that was the way it was and i listened to him instead".  I wonder what God will say?
And of course the simple truth is that we can have great knowledge to figure out great mysteries and faith to move mountains, but without love were NOTHING...not - Not even a piece of dung.  NOTHING.
And i see far to much gibbering going on and people professing themselves to be great teachers and even prophets and not enough love.

I have felt the saving power of love and found it sufficient to conquer anything the world can lay upon me, but knowledge and wisdom (as the st says) will pass away, and in the end only hope faith and love will remain, the greatest being love.
Knowledge helps if its sound knowledge, but how often does anyone preach sound knowledge and not their own internal giberish?  Something they thought up themselves which another 100 passages of scripture can found to refute what they say?
The basics of UR is sound knowledge, because it is truth, but as for the rest of working everything out (even things that dont apply to us today) isnt essential.  St Paul said that ALL scipture is God breathed and USEFUL, but he didnt say it was essential, and i sincerly hope that people reading this might cloak themselves with love and think about going out to help others and give love to those that need it, rather than spend another day sitting at a PC indoors, isolated from the real world, debating on things that could be debated on forever and a conclusion never be found.

The letter does kill.  It almost killed me.

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 23, 2009, 03:52:59 AM
right on

Love you Lee, hope everything is going good, well have to have a good chat sometime, missed you.

Quote from: friendofmankind on December 23, 2009, 03:54:05 AM
Again im not dissing anyone, far from it, but ive heard all the so called great Bible teachers all my life with their "this means that and that means this" and none of them can come to any agreement.
It does more harm than good, it confuses people.

I want to write this for the benefit of the original poster, lest he get drawn in by long debates which really dont do anyone any good, but rather most of the time cause friction and disputes and are mostly a waste of time in my opinion.

The truth is we all have to give an account of OURSELVES to God and work out our OWN salvation.
When God judges me and says "Hey why did you do that you knew it was wrong for you", and if i say "Oh sorry God, thingy told to me that was the way it was and i listened to him instead".  I wonder what God will say?
And of course the simple truth is that we can have great knowledge to figure out great mysteries and faith to move mountains, but without love were NOTHING...not - Not even a piece of dung.  NOTHING.
And i see far to much gibbering going on and people professing themselves to be great teachers and even prophets and not enough love.

I have felt the saving power of love and found it sufficient to conquer anything the world can lay upon me, but knowledge and wisdom (as the st says) will pass away, and in the end only hope faith and love will remain, the greatest being love.
Knowledge helps if its sound knowledge, but how often does anyone preach sound knowledge and not their own internal giberish?  Something they thought up themselves which another 100 passages of scripture can found to refute what they say?
The basics of UR is sound knowledge, because it is truth, but as for the rest of working everything out (even things that dont apply to us today) isnt essential.  St Paul said that ALL scipture is God breathed and USEFUL, but he didnt say it was essential, and i sincerly hope that people reading this might cloak themselves with love and think about going out to help others and give love to those that need it, rather than spend another day sitting at a PC indoors, isolated from the real world, debating on things that could be debated on forever and a conclusion never be found.

The letter does kill.  It almost killed me.

I just have to say one thing:  amen, brother.
oh yeah, and also: Peace to you.  :HeartThrob:

I noticed friendofmankind your saying you were a "works" sort of person because of your nature, it was what you wanted to be, but not because of legalism.  When you mention the differing interpretations of various Scriptural things it reminded me of some things to say.  While there is a period when it may seem uncertain what to think, when you persist it all eventually clears up.  What we don't know just yet we will eventually.  "Now we have the mind of Christ."  It has been said there are only three denominations:  The Think-ers, The Do-ers, The Be-ers.  Some of us just have to understand.  And, we will.  It is God's call and promise.  We are individually and corporately coming into the image and likeness of God.

But, lest I mislead someone, love is to be the over-riding factor in this new life with
God.  We've hardly seen anything yet of what all this means when the seals are opened and the world is subjected to the manifestation of the legal inheritors of God.  Those who have been imprisoned all their lives don't comprehend but intimations of liberty.

Maybe the Do'ers were once Be'ers who realized that Being wasn't good enough so they became think'ers, then one day they realized they were thinking too much and became Do'ers.

:grin:

willieH: Hi lomarah...  :cloud9:

Quote from: willieHBeing that you are a very young person, it is more than possible that in my 33+years of study which exceed your age by several years, that I just might have some insights that you do not, both of LIFE (64) and of the content of the WORD...

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMI don't agree with what you believe about our having nothing to do in working out our salvation.

What do you read in this verse, lomarah:

Eph 1:11 --  In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the PURPOSE of HIM who WORKETH -- ALL THINGS -- after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL...

(1)  Can something "PREDESTINATED" by GOD, do otherwise?  This is like saying that:  GOD SAYS that something WILL BE as HE SAYS -- however YOU SAY it can be CHANGED...  :mshock: :mnah:

(2)  If GOD is "working ALL THINGS", then, how can ANYONE be "working" anything?  This is like saying that "GOD has ALL the MONEY in existence", ...but I still have money.  :laughing7: :mnah:

If ALL THINGS are WORKED after the counsel of the WILL of YHVH, and ARE therein WORKED -- by HIM... where does that leave YOU and YOUR "working out your salvation" by YOUR "WILL" (doings generated by YOU)?

If YOU are in fact DOING things which are PIVOTAL in YOUR SALVATION... then how can it be said that GOD is "WORKING" them?  :mshock:

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMLike you said, we could go into it but it would start another huge thread and I realllllly don't have the time nor the energy right now.

Boy, for a person almost 40 years my junior, it is surprising to me that in every answer, you are "WAYYYYYYY to tired" or, have "NO ENERGY"... as well as "NO TIME"!  :heat:

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PM(Btw my beliefs about this are backed up from someone who has heard directly from God... And no I do not believe that everyone who claims to have heard from God actually has, I am very cautious when it comes to that type of thing.)

Because YOU don't "believe" the claims of other, means nothing other than YOU disbelieve their claims...  :thumbdown:  It does not in any way negate their claims because of your "disbelief"... the JEWS did NOT BELIEVE that JESUS was WHO He said He was... did that "negate His claims"?

It does not matter to me what people think of what I believe... I am concerned with what GOD thinks of what I believe... so I therefore KEEP ON SEARCHING!  :cloud9:

What if your "belief" in this person (whoever it is) which claims to "hear DIRECTLY from God" turns out to be a quack?   It is always best NOT to rest your faith upon a MAN who makes such claims, rather, it is best to be about establishing your OWN -- DIRECT communications with GOD. :nod:

I can testify, that I hear DIRECTLY from GOD, as do MOST of the folks here on TM...

I'm curious, ...what kind of credential do you attempt offer here?  :dontknow:

Many times I turn to the EXACT PAGE as I open the WORD, for a reference!  This is NOT "coincidence"... it has occured HUNDREDS of times... maybe even thousands.  So whoever you are resting your faith upon... that MAN is still a fallible source, subject to error.  My advice (take it or leave it), is to seek to "HEAR" from GOD DIRECTLY, for yourself.  :thumbsup:

Many make such claims, such David Koresh or James Jones... and those who "believed" that these misdirected men, heard "directly from God"... paid the price of their deceptions.  You are welcome to believe whatever you like...

I have not asked you to BELIEVE anything... I have stated that if you are WILLING to LEARN, and do not PLUG your EARS... purely on the basis that they new thoughts which differ with your present observation, ...will thereby give you an opportunity to GAIN new INSIGHT.  That is ALL!  :cloud9:

Quote from: willieHWhat we are to "FEAR" (or, be "afraid of" = PHOBOS) is not GOD... but the things which are drawn into our circumstances by SOWING to the FLESH...

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMI agree that we should fear the consequences of sowing to the flesh, however I also believe we are to fear God like we would fear our own (good) earthly fathers who will punish us when we do something wrong. If you love your child you WILL punish them for doing wrong. And so will God, thankfully!

Don't pretend to teach me parenthood dear one... I have a son TEN YEARS older than yourself, ...A daughter NINE YEARS older than you which has a SON only 8 YEARS your junior, ...and another daughter SEVEN YEARS older than you...  :laughing7:

I NEVER "feared" my father OR my mother!  I RESPECTED who they were in proximity to me, and THAT is what GOD seeks of us...

Btw... I never PUNISHED my children... In LOVE, I corrected them...  There is a BIG difference between PUNISHING and CORRECTING...

(1)  PUNISHMENT --- is done of VENGENCE or MENTAL INSTABILITY, which seeks to bring HARM and exact PAIN for embarrassments of ones VANITY or EGO... Why should GOD "punish" us for a scenario HE DECIDED?  -- Rom 11:32

(2) CORRECTION -- The other is DONE with PURPOSE intended... and is administered as a HELP to the CHILDS betterment... not hurting the child, rather REDIRECTING him/her.  It is more aligned with REASON, that GOD LOVES us (He doesn't change)... and His LOVE demands we be CORRECTED... put on the pathway to Righteousness, and for ever...

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMHebrews 10:31 
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I might remind you that LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR (which has TORMENT)... you therefore read this verse, by observing it with the wrong parameters... (that LOVE which REPELS FEAR -- 1 John 4:18 -- is -- in your view -- trying to INSTILL it IN US! -- :rolleye:)

We are ALL in the hands of the LIVING GOD, lomarah... No offense kid, but you really have some surface understandings. 

Scripture is pretty CLEAR that GOD is MOLDING the CLAY -- Jer 18:4-6 -- CLAY is "molded" in the HAND of the POTTER -- Rom 9:21

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PM1 Peter 2:17 
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God.

Quoting this does nothing to establish the idea the GOD wishes us to be AFRAID of Him... How many of YOUR LOVED ONES, do you FEAR, lomarah? :dunno:  ---> :punish: :hammerhead: ...OR...  :love1: :friendstu: :grouppray:

GOD says in His WORD, that IN the active LOVING of our brethren, is our LOVE for Him, established -- 1 John 4:20-21 -- Matt 25:40

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMRevelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come

More of the same... to GIVE GLORY is to GIVE RESPECT, which IS the "FEAR" which YHVH desires of us...

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMHebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

I have not suggested that we are not "chastened" -- that is what THIS LIFE is all about! ...but you MISS the word LOVE in this verse, thinking you must for some distorted reason, ...be AFRAID of Him who LOVES you???  :sigh:

Our "chastening" is found in the MYRIAD sufferings we endure here in THIS LIFE, and is PART of the PROCESS of PERFECTION -- Heb 2:10

Quote from: willieHGOD notes to be ALL in ALL... He also notes to be UNCHANGING... so if He IS "all in all" then He WAS "all in all" and ALWAYS WILL BE "all in all"...

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMYeah I'm not really comprehending this... I thought Jesus had to reign until all His enemies are under His feet and then He gives all reign back to God and then God will be all in all?
Hebrews 2:8
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

If you view the Scriptures LITERALLY and LINEARLY... then you come up with SHALLOW answers that don't make sense, and fail to align with REASON...

As I said... If you are willing to LEARN, then you shall avail the opportunity to grow.

YHVH GOD is UNCHANGING -- Mal 3:6 -- as well as is HIS WORD -- Heb 13:8 -- In your limited view, lomarah... you think that manifestations of TIME put the ETERNAL -- IN PLACE -- Please!  :laughhand:

Your vision of the ETERNAL WORD, is to box it into TIME constraints... failing to SEE, ...that on ETERNAL TERMS (not temporal terms such as TIME) -- ALL is already DONE. 

The manifestation of TIME does not put the ETERNAL in place (all IN all)... the ETERNAL puts TIME in its place -- Isaiah 46:10 -- Rom 4:17 -- for what is HOLY and ETERNAL cannot in ANY WAY, be displaced by the EVIL manifestation (doings) of EVIL creatures (men) amongst the CORROSIVE element known as, "time"...

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PM1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

   23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

   24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

   25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

   26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

   27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

   28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I understand that you don't consider time as linear and I sort of understand what you mean... but my brain really can't wrap itself around that concept very well.

lomarah... TIME emerged FROM ETERNITY... not the other way around... ETERNITY is not allowed to BE at the "END of TIME"  :laughing7:  TIME is an isolated SPECK amongst the universe.

Do you not see why GOD made the earth so small amidst the universe, where the most IMPORTANT thing in ETERNITY was to be availed? (GOD's "knowledge" of Good & Evil)

There are teachings within the INFINITE size of the Created UNIVERSE, ...and the FINITE size of the EARTH!

The "size" of the Earth is in DIRECT perspective to EVIL, its place and duration of practiced existence, is so MINISCULE, as to not even be present IN the UNIVERSE!

Whereas the "size" of the UNIVERSE is in DIRECT PERSPECTIVE to GOOD, and its place and duration of practiced existence being SO LARGE, as to not be COMPREHENDED!

Think about it.

Quote from: lomarah on December 22, 2009, 10:44:39 PMOop my daughter just woke up, I'll have to try and write the rest of my response later. Pleeeeeeeease don't respond to this until I at least get the chance to read your other posts and leave at least a short comment so that you know I read them?

Bless you within your motherhood, lomarah... and thank you for reading the posts... I don't expect ANYTHING from you... I only mean to give guidance, from one who has traversed areas you have yet to set foot upon...  :teaching:

:Peace:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

delete

Quote from: sparrow on December 23, 2009, 06:25:41 AM
Maybe the Do'ers were once Be'ers who realized that Being wasn't good enough so they became think'ers, then one day they realized they were thinking too much and became Do'ers.

:grin:

Hahahaha!  That made me laugh Sparrow!  Good one lol!
I just find it more emotionally stabilising and much more fun to be a do-er of the word in actions and deeds and not a mere hearer.   As for the study, i used my limited brain as much as i could, but its a big book and too much study wearies the mind.  (Especially mine), and has the effect of taking away love, rather than adding to it (for me personally), because a lot of it just brings confusion, and lets face it "God HIDES things", and the Bible is full of MYSTERIES and SECRETS, so with that in mind (and thousands of interpretations going around all claiming to be right), i just gave up reading as much.
Im not saying i dont read, i just feel that most of my time is better spent doing something else, so i denote less time to study now and more time DOING, because i believe DOING is worthy of MORE TIME devoted to it.

Zeek, I don't think willie meant any sarcasm, it is just his way of writing.

Quote from: willieH
I have not suggested that we are not "chastened" -- that is what THIS LIFE is all about! ...

Hi willie,

I have a question?  I agree that we go through the fire in this life but do you think that it might continue on and even after the return of Christ?  For instance there are people in this life who don't know God and have no desire to know him and there are those who are evil and never have a bad thing happen to them while they live. Will these people have to endure suffering the way we do now, at some point in time?

If the LOF is experienced only in this life, there will be some who are evil that will never experience it, unless they experience it after they have been resurrected.

Would you give me your opinion on this?

CHB

Quote from: CHB on December 23, 2009, 04:16:31 PM

Zeek, I don't think willie meant any sarcasm, it is just his way of writing.

i've deleted my post.  letting personal junk in my life influence my view of others.  sorry.

Quote from: Zeek on December 23, 2009, 04:42:12 PM

Quote from: CHB on December 23, 2009, 04:16:31 PM

Zeek, I don't think willie meant any sarcasm, it is just his way of writing.

i've deleted my post.  letting personal junk in my life influence my view of others.  sorry.

:HeartThrob:

lomarah,

Perhaps you might find this helpful.  :2c:

It was written by a friend and she let me post it to my MySpace page so I don't think she'll mind me sharing it with you.

How does the King of Heaven deal with those who do not forgive?

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=368111335&blogId=466307247

Blessings,
Christine

 :sigh: willie... I just don't know. I can't even keep up with reading your posts let alone replying to them. Basically we disagree on a lot of things and we agree on others. You are welcome to have your opinions on things and I will have mine.

FYI there are reasons I am so exhausted all the time but I really don't feel like going into it.

Quote from: sparrow on December 23, 2009, 04:35:20 AM

Quote from: friendofmankind on December 23, 2009, 03:54:05 AM
Again im not dissing anyone, far from it, but ive heard all the so called great Bible teachers all my life with their "this means that and that means this" and none of them can come to any agreement.
It does more harm than good, it confuses people.

I want to write this for the benefit of the original poster, lest he get drawn in by long debates which really dont do anyone any good, but rather most of the time cause friction and disputes and are mostly a waste of time in my opinion.

The truth is we all have to give an account of OURSELVES to God and work out our OWN salvation.
When God judges me and says "Hey why did you do that you knew it was wrong for you", and if i say "Oh sorry God, thingy told to me that was the way it was and i listened to him instead".  I wonder what God will say?
And of course the simple truth is that we can have great knowledge to figure out great mysteries and faith to move mountains, but without love were NOTHING...not - Not even a piece of dung.  NOTHING.
And i see far to much gibbering going on and people professing themselves to be great teachers and even prophets and not enough love.

I have felt the saving power of love and found it sufficient to conquer anything the world can lay upon me, but knowledge and wisdom (as the st says) will pass away, and in the end only hope faith and love will remain, the greatest being love.
Knowledge helps if its sound knowledge, but how often does anyone preach sound knowledge and not their own internal giberish?  Something they thought up themselves which another 100 passages of scripture can found to refute what they say?
The basics of UR is sound knowledge, because it is truth, but as for the rest of working everything out (even things that dont apply to us today) isnt essential.  St Paul said that ALL scipture is God breathed and USEFUL, but he didnt say it was essential, and i sincerly hope that people reading this might cloak themselves with love and think about going out to help others and give love to those that need it, rather than spend another day sitting at a PC indoors, isolated from the real world, debating on things that could be debated on forever and a conclusion never be found.

The letter does kill.  It almost killed me.

I just have to say one thing:  amen, brother.
oh yeah, and also: Peace to you.  :HeartThrob:

Thanks for saying exactly what was in my own heart.  :HeartThrob: Enough of this debating about this and that, all I want to do is give and receive love.  :cloud9:

Quote from: Chris on December 23, 2009, 06:43:38 PM
lomarah,

Perhaps you might find this helpful.  :2c:

It was written by a friend and she let me post it to my MySpace page so I don't think she'll mind me sharing it with you.

How does the King of Heaven deal with those who do not forgive?

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=368111335&blogId=466307247

Blessings,
Christine

Thanks Christine, that was very insightful and helpful.  :cloud9:

lomarah, good decision  :thumbsup:.  Glad to see you moving on to more productive matters.

God's blessings to you.

willieH: Hi CHB! :hithere:

Quote from: willieH
I have not suggested that we are not "chastened" -- that is what THIS LIFE is all about! ...

Quote from: CHB on December 23, 2009, 04:16:31 PMHi willie,

I have a question?  I agree that we go through the fire in this life but do you think that it might continue on and even after the return of Christ?

Let me attempt an answer in these words...

The REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST ...IS... a CONSUMING FIRE.  The WORD of God contains the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL...

The "knowledge of GOOD and EVIL" is THAT which is BEING REVEALED on Earth VIA the Father YHVH ...and... the Children of YHVH

The process (and results) of the manifestation of EVIL is TEMPORAL [time]... and ALL that is amidst TIME concerning EVIL, is CONSUMED, ...deed by deed, ...to INCLUDE TIME itself...

You and I as beings are ALWAYS UNCHANGED... The process of TIME, is that which makes us AWARE...  I am 64yrs old.  In the SPIRIT which is the actual being that ...I AM... I have not aged, and will NEVER PERISH.  However, the VEHICLE (my body) in which my Spirit is placed (by GOD), is decaying and will perish...

The WORD of YHVH -- which IS the Knowledge of GOOD and EVIL -- denotes many things BOTH of GOOD and of EVIL, in  which the CHILDREN are PARTICIPANTS...

However it also notes that ONLY that which is FOUNDED upon GOOD (CHRIST), shall abide (gold, silver, precious stones - that which is INVALUEABLE)... the rest (wood, hay, stubble, that which is VALUELESS) is CONSUMED -- 1 Cor 3:11-15

That which is IN physical EARTH, and IN linear (measureable/temporal) "TIME" are VALUELESS...
That which is IN spiritual EARTH, and IN nonlinear (immeasurable/infinite) "ETERNITY" is INVALUABLE.

Quote from: CHB on December 23, 2009, 04:16:31 PMFor instance there are people in this life who don't know God and have no desire to know him and there are those who are evil and never have a bad thing happen to them while they live. Will these people have to endure suffering the way we do now, at some point in time?

These are only those who have YET to be DRAWN to CHRIST...  They are suffering... for when CHRIST is revealed IN them... they shall bear the remorse that we cannot SEE presently.  Just because WE do not SEE a "suffering"... does not negate the fact of its presence.  Let me give you an example>>>

EXAMPLE --  Just before his death to cancer... my father was in EXTREME PAIN... but he NEVER displayed it.  Because I could not SEE HIS PAIN, did not mean that it was NOT THERE!

Quote from: CHB on December 23, 2009, 04:16:31 PMIf the LOF is experienced only in this life, there will be some who are evil that will never experience it, unless they experience it after they have been resurrected.

"THIS LIFE" includes BOTH RESURRECTIONS... The "1st Resurrection" are those who have been given the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST -- John 6:44, within their temporal and physical lifespan.  The "2nd RESURRECTION" is for all OTHERS... which SHALL take place before the CONCLUSION of the LAST DAY -- John 12:48

In either case... the WORD is the Judge... and the EXAMPLE of the WORD, given IN the WORD, is that instead of JUDGING -- John 8:3-11 -- the WORD chooses to JUSTIFY by ITS perfect sacrifice (on behalf of) the one which stands in JUDGMENT, by TAKING the SIN AWAY -- John 1:29 -- as those who do not deserve to JUDGE, ...Drop the UNJUSTIFIED stones of JUDGMENT, desisting FROM IT.

:Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9: