Brace Yourselves

[firstborn888]

The purpose of this thread is not to instill fear in anyone. I am so sorry it has been taken that way. Unfortunately, some people will take it that way.

I know your not trying to instill fear SF. The things you have seen may even happen, they have happened to some degree before. I'm just saying these are things we do to ourselves, that's all. And yes, if we would all serve God then they would not happen. I'm not trying to tear you down at all.  :bigGrin:

[Molly]

God is not a one dimensional being with only one feeling.  That's the message for me from the Old Testament.  He has the same feelings we have.  He can be hurt.  He can be angry.   He can be jealous.  He can be sad.

Oprah said she couldn't deal with a jealous God.

well, how would she feel in days past if Steadman was running around constantly with other women?  Why is it so hard for her to identify with that?

People don't fear God or they would be good.

They don't love him or they would be righteous.  If we love someone, we don't want to continually hurt them with our behaviour.

[jabcat]

P.S.  to my post...For instance, in terms of being REALLY careful...would a book that merits this type of response (Rev. Merritt illustrates a powerful personal journey....JEHOVAH UNMASKED represents another nail in the biblical coffin that contains a mummified and rotten god belonging to the violent barbarians and troglodytes of the Stone Age."  --Acharya S, author of The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God)  be very likely to present to me our true God and Father?   

Maybe, but doesn't that at least make you think?

[Beloved Servant]

Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

[Zeek]

God is not a one dimensional being with only one feeling.  That's the message for me from the Old Testament.  He has the same feelings we have.  He can be hurt.  He can be angry.   He can be jealous.  He can be sad.

Oprah said she couldn't deal with a jealous God.

well, how would she feel in days past if Steadman was running around constantly with other women?  Why is it so hard for her to identify with that?

People don't fear God or they would be good.

They don't love him or they would be righteous.  If we love someone, we don't want to continually hurt them with our behaviour.

Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

envyings:

G5355
φθόνος
phthonos
fthon'-os
Probably akin to the base of G5351; ill will (as detraction), that is, jealousy (spite): - envy.

1Co 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

G2206
ζηλόω
zēloō
dzay-lo'-o
From G2205; to have warmth of feeling for or against: - affect, covet (earnestly), (have) desire, (move with) envy, be jealous over, (be) zealous (-ly affect).

God is love

Exo 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

visiting:

H6485
פּקד
pâqad
paw-kad'
A primitive root; to visit (with friendly or hostile intent); by analogy to oversee, muster, charge, care for, miss, deposit, etc.: - appoint, X at all, avenge, bestow, (appoint to have the, give a) charge, commit, count, deliver to keep, be empty, enjoin, go see, hurt, do judgment, lack, lay up look, make X by any means, miss, number, officer, (make) overseer have (the) oversight, punish, reckon, (call to) remember (-brance), set (over), sum, X surely, visit, want.

[sparrow]

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

I don't identify with the OT god of wrath.
I trust in Christ and His teachings. I don't know what else to say.
This is my path and I'm just sharing what's in my heart.

And I trust and thank God for your heart, as it is my heart too.  But; the new testament is full of messages of a coming wrath.  It's not just the old testament.   

My question that I asked you is the question I am going through.  How do I reconcile this?   

The way I reconcile it is seeing it the way I described in the fire scenario.
Non-love (and it's ways, shapes and forms) leads to misery.

God is LOVE.

God is not FORCING anyone down the path of non-love.
We walk there ourselves and we walk individually, and we walk there as a whole.

Individually, when we walk down the path of non-love, we feel the "judgement". the consequences.

As a WHOLE.... we will feel the "judgement". the consequences.

This is how we LEARN. By the contrast of love and non-love.

Love leads to life...
Non-love leads to death...
figuratively and literally.


As a whole, (as a nation or what have you) the judgements will be felt.
But it isn't God forcing us down this path.
We are walking down this path on our own.

Go back and read my fire scenario again...
This is what I'm talking about.

The more we share the LOVE of God with others...
there are going to be less people walking down that path that leads to death (judgement.)
Judgements are felt 24/7 365 days a year. This is what this life IS.
LEARNING.

But the idea that God is shaking His fist at us and is up in the sky throwing down lightning bolts is what I'm hearing people are saying. That's a wrong picture, in my opinion.

We need to share the LOVE of God more than anything.

People are looking in all the wrong places and that is why they go down the destructive paths they go down. We need to point them towards our Loving Father. NOT the same old angry, god in the sky shaking His fist that they hear about from every Pastor, Preacher and Minister out there in the WORLD.

We ARE in the "tent".
So let's start ACTING like it.



That's all I was trying to get across....

[Zeek]

Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

But why would our Abba deluge the world in the first place??  If that story is real, then he literally drowned babies, mommies, dads, etc. 

Are you sure this first story is from the TRUE father??

unless we spiritualize it, and refer to the "world" as our carnal mind, that has to die; then God is pretty sadistic in the flood scene. 

[Molly]

Zeek--


"a jealous" [God]

H7067
קנּא
qannâ'
kan-naw'
From H7065; jealous: - jealous. Compare H7072.



H7065
קנא
qânâ'
kaw-naw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) zealous, that is, (in a bad sense) jealous or envious: -  (be) envy (-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous (-y), X very, (be) zeal (-ous).


Main Entry: zealous  
Pronunciation:   \ ˈze-ləs  \
Function:  adjective
Date:  1526
Results
1526 filled with or characterized by zeal : marked by fervent partisanship for a person, a cause, or an ideal - zealous missionaries


Numbers 25:13
And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.




zealous
H7065
קנא
qânâ'
kaw-naw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) zealous, that is, (in a bad sense) jealous or envious: -  (be) envy (-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous (-y), X very, (be) zeal (-ous).

[sparrow]

and maybe, I don't know... maybe you guys and I are all saying essentially the same thing. But the reason I had to say something was because looking at the OP from an outsiders point of view... (even IF we are basically saying similar things) all I could see in the OP was the angry god in the sky throwing down lightning bolts. That's why I had to step in and post what I saw...

that's all.

[jabcat]

I seriously am searching here, seeing "both" sides.

Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5, divinely killed), and a Herod (Acts 12, eaten by worms for taking glory rather than giving it to God) -- these were acts obviously (to me) not "done to themselves".  God did it, actively, not passively/"hands off because we chose this path so this is the consequence"...He DID it.

So, on one hand, I see the New Covenant "Happy God", reconciling man to Himself.  On the other, I see things like the above instances.  Maybe pre-70 A.D. had something to do with that...a special (sorry to those that have coniptions over the word) dispensation leading to the end of the age of temple worship and now worship in Spirit and in truth?  I don't know, and I also don't know that God's only throwing parties now vs. still to display some of His divine wrath upon children of disobedience.  :dontknow:

[Zeek]

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

I don't identify with the OT god of wrath.
I trust in Christ and His teachings. I don't know what else to say.
This is my path and I'm just sharing what's in my heart.

And I trust and thank God for your heart, as it is my heart too.  But; the new testament is full of messages of a coming wrath.  It's not just the old testament.   

My question that I asked you is the question I am going through.  How do I reconcile this?   

The way I reconcile it is seeing it the way I described in the fire scenario.
Non-love (and it's ways, shapes and forms) leads to misery.

God is LOVE.

God is not FORCING anyone down the path of non-love.
We walk there ourselves and we walk individually, and we walk there as a whole.

Individually, when we walk down the path of non-love, we feel the "judgement". the consequences.

As a WHOLE.... we will feel the "judgement". the consequences.

This is how we LEARN. By the contrast of love and non-love.

Love leads to life...
Non-love leads to death...
figuratively and literally.


As a whole, (as a nation or what have you) the judgements will be felt.
But it isn't God forcing us down this path.
We are walking down this path on our own.

Go back and read my fire scenario again...
This is what I'm talking about.

The more we share the LOVE of God with others...
there are going to be less people walking down that path that leads to death (judgement.)
Judgements are felt 24/7 365 days a year. This is what this life IS.
LEARNING.

But the idea that God is shaking His fist at us and is up in the sky throwing down lightning bolts is what I'm hearing people are saying. That's a wrong picture, in my opinion.

We need to share the LOVE of God more than anything.

People are looking in all the wrong places and that is why they go down the destructive paths they go down. We need to point them towards our Loving Father. NOT the same old angry, god in the sky shaking His fist that they hear about from every Pastor, Preacher and Minister out there in the WORLD.

We ARE in the "tent".
So let's start ACTING like it.



That's all I was trying to get across....

I appreciate your message, which to me implies (correct me if i'm wrong) that we are all "children" of the Father, going thriough his chastisement here and now.

But in Hebrews, it says chastisement is for his "sons", whom HE RECEIVETH, and not for "bastards".  

And we know that "sons" are those who are given faith; as per Galatians.

[Molly]

Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

But why would our Abba deluge the world in the first place??  If that story is real, then he literally drowned babies, mommies, dads, etc. 

Are you sure this first story is from the TRUE father??

unless we spiritualize it, and refer to the "world" as our carnal mind, that has to die; then God is pretty sadistic in the flood scene. 

Because humanity was polluted beyond salvation--the thoughts of their hearts were continually evil.

[Zeek]

Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

But why would our Abba deluge the world in the first place??  If that story is real, then he literally drowned babies, mommies, dads, etc. 

Are you sure this first story is from the TRUE father??

unless we spiritualize it, and refer to the "world" as our carnal mind, that has to die; then God is pretty sadistic in the flood scene. 

Because humanity was polluted beyond salvation--the thoughts of their hearts were continually evil.

Well, for now; I reject your belief.  But who knows, I've gone in circle after circle in my beliefs.   :HeartThrob:

[sparrow]

I appreciate your message, which to me implies (correct me if i'm wrong) that we are all "children" of the Father, going thriough his chastisement here and now.

But in Hebrews, it says chastisement is for his "sons", whom HE RECEIVETH, and not for "bastards".  

And we know that "sons" are those who are given faith; as per Galatians.

No, you're not wrong in your assessment of what I'm saying.

I do believe that we ALL go through chastisement. ALL of us. Whether we realize it or not.
Otherwise no-one would learn anything.

"judgements" (or the consequences, the aftermath of non-love) is felt througout the world, all day long every day. It trickles down.

For instance, people abuse the earth, the earth becomes diseased, people become ill.
John Smith didn't do anything WRONG to get the illness... but mankind as a WHOLE abused the earth and now the aftermath is trickling down to individuals.

That is why I say we are judged individually AND As a whole.
The judgement is the consequence of what is NON-LOVE.

Evil (non-love) is on the path of destruction.
It is on the long, meandering, path of being DESTROYED.

Thank God!

That's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

We are learning the power of LOVE.

God doesn't harm us.
We harm OURSELVES and our fellow brothers and sisters when we shun the path of love.

Everything trickles down.

[Molly]

Well, for now; I reject your belief.

What belief are you rejecting? lol  I'm just telling you what I read in the Bible.  It repented God that he made man on the earth because--


...every imagination of the thoughts of [man's] heart was only evil continually.

--Gen 6

[Molly]

That's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

You know, when my heart's being ripped out of my chest by the evil I am witnessing, it's hard to think of it as a schoolyard, Sparrow.

[firstborn888]

*Mod hat on*
Just a reminder that (per the owner of tentmaker (Gary Amirault's) wishes) we have reserved the right to not allow discussion of  the validity/invalidity of the scriptures which would include discussing the notion that the 'OT God' is not the 'real God'.

So, let's discuss - but since Jesus Himself validated the OT we need to keep it on the subject of how we interpret what was written, not whether it is all of God or not. The reason for this rule is that tentmaker exists primarily to show and discuss the scripturalness of universal reconciliation.  :thumbsup:

There are other websites for 'no holds barred' discussions on these other questions.

*Mod hat off*

:bigGrin:

[Beloved Servant]

Now, they're are a people, Sons if you will, that only live for the expression of Him.
And they sing...       
   www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NN9hX61vhg&feature=related

[sparrow]

That's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

You know, when my heart's being ripped out of my chest by the evil I am witnessing, it's hard to think of it as a schoolyard, Sparrow.

I understand your heart, Molly. I think you are a beautiful person and I love you to pieces.

I am aware of the evil.
I have witnessed the trickling down consequences of the evil (non-love) in this world in my own family while I stood by and could do nothing while my own mother was basically being tortured.

I still see it as a schoolyard.
which is sometimes extremely brutal.
but still a schoolyard.
Trust me, my heart breaks daily...
but I also look to Him as strength.
The hope.
The Love.

It makes wanting to spread the fact of His love for us that much more REAL and PRESSING.

We're here to learn.

[Beloved Servant]

OH ! THE WONDER OF GOD !

[firstborn888]

That's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

You know, when my heart's being ripped out of my chest by the evil I am witnessing, it's hard to think of it as a schoolyard, Sparrow.

I hear ya' Molly. I often lay awake at night, being somewhat of an empath (which seems to be a blessing/curse).
That's one reason I believe that we need to show what the true heart of God is - not the God who is anti-people but the God who is anti-oppression, anti-lying, anti-hate, anti-darkness, anti-sin etc etc.

Jesus reveals the (once hidden) heart of the Father and so if it's not consistent with Jesus' words or actions while among us, then it's not consistent with the Father's nature.

I wish I had more time to show the sovereignty of God's salvation and how the complete transformation of the world will take place - it is in scripture, but it's a mystery as it SEEMS contradictory to other scriptures. That's what's hard about these conversations.

[Zeek]

Well, for now; I reject your belief.

What belief are you rejecting? lol  I'm just telling you what I read in the Bible.  It repented God that he made man on the earth because--


...every imagination of the thoughts of [man's] heart was only evil continually.

--Gen 6

I'll rephrase.  I don't know if I believe that those scriptures reflect the TRUE FATHER.   

[jabcat]

Not that I don't wish and need to better understand this and many topics, but "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."  II Timothy 3:16,17

[Zeek]

*Mod hat on*
Just a reminder that (per the owner of tentmaker (Gary Amirault's) wishes) we have reserved the right to not allow discussion of  the validity/invalidity of the scriptures which would include discussing the notion that the 'OT God' is not the 'real God'.

So, let's discuss - but since Jesus Himself validated the OT we need to keep it on the subject of how we interpret what was written, not whether it is all of God or not. The reason for this rule is that tentmaker exists primarily to show and discuss the scripturalness of universal reconciliation.  :thumbsup:

There are other websites for 'no holds barred' discussions on these other questions.

*Mod hat off*

:bigGrin:

ok.  I'll drop out of the thread.
 

:)

[jabcat]

So (the above scripture) being the case, IMO, the problem is my/our understanding, hearts, and minds.

In other words, we don't get it  :happygrin:.