Tentmaker Forum

I know many on here do not believe that anything is going to happen in the near future in America. But, I am feeling lead to sound and alarm to those who are reading and may not believe.

I believe this country is going to go through a serious shaking of God really soon.

We are going to be in serious civil unrest in this country.

Major cities are going to be destroyed and burning and much more...much more..

I pray that many of you ask the Lord to show you the serious of the hour and to the discern the times in which we are living.

God has been showing me a lot of things lately and giving many many confirmations.

I am not able to sleep on a regular sleeping pattern anymore, it has been a while as God is dealing with almost non-stop to speak out to people.

Many are going to be caught off guard because they do not believe anything like this could happen here in America. But, I believe we are sooo close to the coming of the Lord I can't put into words.

The Lord is saying we do not have YEARS anymore to play church and play around. We do not have YEARS anymore before he removes the hedge from around this country.

I pray that you all begin to discern the times, because unfortunately the majority of the church is asleep right now, when they should be awake.

Yes, Judgment is on the way to this country and it is at the door.

You mean something like this: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=4254.0

How are you preparing?

You're propably right Spokenfor...America's Israeli buddies are moving their submarine fleet through the Suez canal towards Iran...the usurpers of Joseph's birthright think they're playing a trump card, but history will repeat itself...Persia will be the fall of (Mystery) Babylon, again...God be with us all!

"come out of her my people..."

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 22, 2009, 09:49:15 AM

The Lord is saying we do not have YEARS anymore to play church and play around. We do not have YEARS anymore before he removes the hedge from around this country.

No I really do not believe it and it is based on this kind of thing.   Let's see God kept the hedges around this country in the past because we came here and killed indians, burned witches, brought slaves, prevented women from voting.

But now the progression of this country is not perfect but we have made things better, try to do the right things more and more, so now God's going to judge us more harshly because the church people approving of the things above have lost ground.

Nah, not buying it.

 all nations are going to fall...

   He rules the nations with an iron rod.

  we are not to drink the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons

   one cup unto the children and offspring of God

  one cup unto the enemies of God.


     When the ARK SET FORWARD...


   RISE UP LORD AND LET THY ENEMIES BE SCATTERED

   AND LET THEM THAT HATE THEE FLEE BEFORE THEE


   WHEN THE ARK RESTED


  RETURN O'LORD TO THE MANY THOUSAND OF ISRAEL


   when Jesus appears again..HE WILL APPEAR APART/SEPERATE

  FROM SIN...HE WILL SEPERATE THE PEOPLE...

   HE WILL BAPTIZE WITH HOLY GHOST AND FIRE

  the sheep He acknowledges as of HIS SPIRIT

  the goats HE BAPTIZES WITH FIRE[y wrath/jealousy]

  there is a vessel fitted for destruction...

  and a vessel fitted for honour....

  the vessel of honor does NOT drink the cup of demons

  but the vessel of dishonor...

   the vessel of dishonor does not drink the cup of the LORD

  but the cup of demons

   take awy the dross from the silver...depart from me

   then shall ye return and discern the righteous from the wicked

  when HE comes  in judgement the people will learn

righteousness

  2 Thess 2;8 And then the lawless one will be revealed,

  whom the LORD JESUS WILL OVERTHROW

  WITH THE BREATH OF HIS MOUTH

  AND DESTROY BY THE SPLENDOR OF HIS COMING


   Can a NATION BE BORN IN A DAY?

  Isaih 66  Judgement and hope

   7  Before she goes into labour she gives birth

  before pains come upon her,she delivers a son


   Can a country be born in a day? or a nation be brought forth

  in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labour than she gives

birth to her children. Do I bring to the moment of birth and not

give delivery?Do I close up the womb when I bring to delivery?


  [Luke 21;28 when these things begin to take place,stand up

and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing

near]

  Isaaih 66;12 I will extend peace to her like a river, and

the welth of nations like a flooding stream....

  v 15  SEE, The LORD is COMING with FIRE, And HIS

  Chariots are like a whirlwind, HE WILL BRING DOWN HIS

ANGER WITH FURY,AND HIS REBUKE WITH FLAMES OF FIRE

  v 22  As the new heavens and new earth that I make will

endure before me,declares the LORD, so will your name and

descendants endure

 :cloud9: Amen Sheila........Good word......... :thumbsup: I also see this as both working within the individual as well, in that when He appears (perceived thru the mind of Christ), He appears without or to separate sin from us. That's what His appearing in a word/breath does is separate the Spirit from the flesh, IN US, so that we can choose ye this day, whom ye will serve. Blessings.....

 :thumbsup:

Hi everyone...something is about to happen,but it is the realignment from our Father.
The things that will be brought down our imagi "nations".The church system as we know it will spiral downwards  and God fearing church members will end up   disillusioned.Their love of God will be shown as one of fear not of love and their hearts will fail them.I feel the people we need to be wary of are those that practiced "religion" the most as they will become lovers of themselves and hurt those around them.
This is the part that greaves my spirit,since some of these people are good friends of mine and I've already seen the pain they will go through and its not fun!
As there is great darkness... there will also be great lite! :icon_king:

I could see something happening, mainly because of all of America's debt and governmental stupidity. I hope things turn out okay, but I'm thinkin' we might be in for some interesting times ahead. Not really sure how bad things will get, but I'll just have to stay alert.

Things can go very quickly. Just look how sudden/fast the USSR collapsed

It's happening by design.  Nothing new about this.  Anyone who hasn't noticed it before now has been asleep.

But, what is really energizing me is the number of people who are waking up.  If they can just wake up before the lights go out...

then the city on the hill can burn brightly...

Quote from: Molly on July 22, 2009, 10:22:20 PM
It's happening by design.  Nothing new about this.  Anyone who hasn't noticed it before now has been asleep.

But, what is really energizing me is the number of people who are waking up.  If they can just wake up before the lights go out...

then the city on the hill can burn brightly...

People are waking up, people more and more  are seeing God outside of the spiritually crippling perspective that fearmongers almost every day.   There is a long way to go.

It's all a process.

I've prayed and for reasons I won't get into right now am in a particularly easy season of hearing from Him very clearly: revival, outpouring of the Holy Spirit, healing of millions, prosperity of those that obey Him (including financial), deliverance from disaster, recovery of our economy, and the greatest, greatest, most reverent generation of Americans that the planet has ever seen is what's on the horizon.  The Spirit of the Lord says that though iniquity has abounded, grace is much more abounding in this hour and He's not giving up on the Nation that was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and all nations shall see the glory of the Lord in this hour as Jesus Christ is taking His great power and is reigning and the saints are progressing in the earth with the discipleship of the Nations.  Lifespans will be extended in the very near future into the centuries, poverty will be abolished sooner than you think, and the glorious Church without spot and blemish (of which there are far more of than anyone with a religious demon believes) is going forth conquering and to conquer and all of the nations shall be discipled BY THE CHURCH, all flesh shall see the glory of the Lord, and this is the day and this is the hour that all of the saints and angels have sung of since before the foundation of the world!!  NO LONGER SHALL THEY SAY, "WHERE IS THEIR GOD?" BECAUSE THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH SHALL BE HEARD ON EVERY MOUNTAIN OF THE EARTH.  The Spirit of the Lord says that every need shall be swallowed up in victory in our day, and for those that can't believe or receive it any other way, because of the depth of the brokenness of their hearts and of their lives, the Lord would condescend to say of Himself that He is finally off of His butt as you've always called for Him to be AND HE WILL MAKE THIS RIGHT WITH YOU!!

I believe God will fix it.  As Martin and others cite, God will restore and renew.  However, my personal understanding is there will be trials and tribulations first, all creation groaning...in essence, the Potter breaking the vessel before He re-forms the clay.  Call that a Tribulation, a Time of Travail, whichever name that fits.

So I would agree to be watching, praying, trusting, hiding beneath His wings, in the cleft of the Rock.

Aren't many prophets saying things are going to crash and burn, while another is saying the direct opposite?  That everything's about to turn into a Jubilee?  Don't get me wrong, I think it will.  But as I've said before, the thing that concerns me is what about the process?  What must happen before?  Joy comes in the morning...after the darkest night...not without the darkness of night.  So isn't a question "have we bottomed out already and the next thing is rejoicing and redemption?  Or is there further into the abyss to descend before we are brought forth rejoicing"?

What am I doing to prepare?  Reading His Word, praying, trusting in Him...while at the same time making some physical preparations for self and family.  Seems responsible...but still knowing that if we were unable to provide for a singe silver dime or a gallon of clean water, God would provide all we needed.


As I see it, bottom line...God's in control, He will protect us either on this side of the grave or especially on the other side...isn't that [or His "final" glorious return] where, after all, the mortal takes on the immortal?

As Kris Kristofferson sang, ..."my soul's in Your hands".

Hi jabcat...
We share the same thoughts on this.
peace,
sparrow

6But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.

7And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

8According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

9Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

10And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.

11And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

12And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.

13And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

14And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

15And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

16And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

17He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

18And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.

--1  SAM 8




You've been hit by--you've been struck by--a smooth criminal...

--Michael Jackson

Well, I have done my small part I felt the Lord wanted me to do.

Before the Lord restores anything, he must first tear down.

As much as we talk about the refining fires of God, it has to be known the refining fires do not start in the Lake of Fire, they start right here on earth where our faith must be tested with FIRE.

Through much tribulation we must enter into the Kingdom of God. That includes the ever day fiery trials we have already experienced.

We have predestined to be shaped into the IMAGE of Christ and it must come through fiery trials and sharing in the sufferings of Christ.

A birthing without birth pains is a premature birth.

This is more than about God just allowing faminine, there are a times and seasons for everything.

These are things that must happened that God has predestined before the foundations of the World.

Our faith must be tested with Fire and we must be purified in FIRE.

Fire is going to either purify your or destroy you and God has purposed that we are refined in this fires of life and this world to come out of pure Gold in the image of his Son. We are not here to just live for the pleasures of this world, we have a higher calling that God is calling us to.

Another thing, this is far from doomsday prophecies.

This is the changing of seasons and the end of sin is coming before God.

Anything God allows he does it out of Love, as we all know.

So, what is so doomy and gloomy about it.

We are definitely in the last days when men are lover of pleasures more than God, when people have a form of God and no power.

God is in control and this is all signifying the Second Coming of the Lord, we are closer and for that I am a peace.

 :goodpost: spokenfor.  It can be painful being the messenger sounding the warning call at the wall.  God's blessings to you.  You are in the palm of His hand.


The earthquakes, the wars, the problems of man
He holds them all in the palm of His hand
Fear no evil, though the storms may roll
Our God has everything under control   (from an old, old song I knew as a kid)

I also want to add, we are moving closer to the falling away. There are many who are going to fall away from the Faith because they never had their houses built on Christ.

When they realize how all the pleasures of this life are fading and begin to become less an less and realize that there is a tribulation, many will curse God.

The Spirit of God will not compete with Flesh always.

It is either the flesh dies and is crucified with Christ through fires of this life or the names of many will be blotted out of the book of Life and they will be cast into the Lake where they will be refined there.

These are serious times we are in.

We do not have years before we begin to see a major change right here in America, I believe it is going to happen 'suddenly' the start of it and catch a sleeping slumbering Church doing just that.

This is what God will use to bring to maturity many in the Body.

This is where many will come to the Lord.

This is where many will fall away.

Pray, For the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2009, 08:29:35 AM
:goodpost: spokenfor.  It can be painful being the messenger sounding the warning call at the wall.  God's blessings to you.  You are in the palm of His hand.


The earthquakes, the wars, the problems of man
He holds them all in the palm of His hand
Fear no evil, though the storms may roll
Our God has everything under control   (from an old, old song I knew as a kid)

It is not easy at times, Most of the times it is..But, it is not always easy...But, because I have to please GOD and not man, I will say what he wants me to say. I am not my own anymore and he would not have his people to remain ignorant.

They may not heed, but they will not be able to say God did not warn me.

Quote from: sparrow on July 23, 2009, 06:57:35 AM
Hi jabcat...
We share the same thoughts on this.
peace,
sparrow

Hi sparrow.  Thanks for sharing, blessings to you.  James.

Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2009, 06:25:40 AM
I believe God will fix it.  As Martin and others cite, God will restore and renew.  However, my personal understanding is there will be trials and tribulations first, all creation groaning...in essence, the Potter breaking the vessel before He re-forms the clay.  Call that a Tribulation, a Time of Travail, whichever name that fits.

So I would agree to be watching, praying, trusting, hiding beneath His wings, in the cleft of the Rock.

Aren't many prophets saying things are going to crash and burn, while another is saying the direct opposite?  That everything's about to turn into a Jubilee?  Don't get me wrong, I think it will.  But as I've said before, the thing that concerns me is what about the process?  What must happen before?  Joy comes in the morning...after the darkest night...not without the darkness of night.  So isn't a question "have we bottomed out already and the next thing is rejoicing and redemption?  Or is there further into the abyss to descend before we are brought forth rejoicing"?

What am I doing to prepare?  Reading His Word, praying, trusting in Him...while at the same time making some physical preparations for self and family.  Seems responsible...but still knowing that if we were unable to provide for a singe silver dime or a gallon of clean water, God would provide all we needed.


As I see it, bottom line...God's in control, He will protect us either on this side of the grave or especially on the other side...isn't that [or His "final" glorious return] where, after all, the mortal takes on the immortal?

As Kris Kristofferson sang, ..."my soul's in Your hands".

Amen, is all I can say. Amen.... :thumbsup:

I want to also add God is not so much interested in fixing a nation as he is fixing the 'character of a man' and if that means destroying a nation, and bringing to and end all pleasure, and bringing to and end the love of SELF, and bringing to and end comforts as we know, and bringing to an end even perhaps your very own flesh. He will indeed DESTROY the FLESH to SAVE the SOUL.

God is not interested in making sure we are never uncomfortable in life. As a matter of fact the more uncomfortable you are, the more he is able to refine you and decrease YOU, so that Christ is increased in YOU.

I want to also add during the worse of times, will also at some point be the best of times. For the GLORY of the LORD will shine brightly.......The peace he gives us is not peace this WORLD gives.

There is no future in this country and world as it is.

The Spirit is testifying this so clearly words can't describe. Had God not taken me through the biggest breaking and tearing down of me the past few years I would not be able to understand these things he is showing me and MANY things and MUCH wisdom I have gained only when he SILENCED and BROKE this flesh down to nothing...Took everything I loved, broke me to the core until I am literally left with nothing but CHRIST..Nothing but the Lord..........

I have paid a great price and I am not here to be pat on the back my man or liked or approved, I have counted the cost and tasted a bit of the cost of following the Lord and will taste of much more in the near future. And my total allegiance is to God alone and please him.

14 "Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, "for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion. 15 Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding. 16 In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land," declares the LORD, "men will no longer say, 'The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made.

--Jer 3

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 23, 2009, 08:44:53 AM
He will indeed DESTROY the FLESH to SAVE the SOUL.

God is not interested in making sure we are never uncomfortable in life. As a matter of fact the more uncomfortable you are, the more he is able to refine you and decrease YOU, so that Christ is increased in YOU.

I want to also add during the worse of times, will also at some point be the best of times. For the GLORY of the LORD will shine brightly.......The peace he gives us is not peace this WORLD gives.

I have gained only when he SILENCED and BROKE this flesh down to nothing...Took everything I loved, broke me to the core until I am literally left with nothing but CHRIST..Nothing but the Lord..........

Praise God, spokenfor.  I will give a witness, a testimony, and publically say "Praise be to God" for His mercy, for His restoration of and blessings on me.  I too was broken, to the point of asking to be taken out of this life.  Loss of job, loss of "position", respect, esteem...loss of much (still a daily crucifying taking place) of self...

It was during this time God chose to pull back a piece of the veil and reveal His plan of ultimate reconciliation to me.  He lovingly broke me, then restored me...all glory be to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.  Amen.

As it was in the days of Noah, is all God is ringing in my ear as well..As it was in the days of Noah....God sent Noah to warn the people, they mocked and said, "Why are you preparing a boat". He told them to Repent or they were going to be destroyed.

This is what is about to happen in America.

This nation is about to bottom out with all kinds of natural disasters that have never been seen in this magnitude.

This lovely buildings we have built with hands and we admire so much are going to fall to ground like dominos.

When God says, Flee...we are to flee to the next place he directs us because that is what it is going to boil down to in the NEAR future. God is saying it is not years either, it is matter of months.

They say nothing like this could happen here in this Great America. So much pride in a nation and our materialism that we have lost the love of our first LOVE.

God has been giving us signs for a long time, and still there are signs everyday he is showing me

There was a time I did not want to hear this, and did not want to believe it. I wanted only the Good stuff God was showing me, until he said, "Now is the time to show you, you are ready" Sometimes we are not ready, God knows there was a time I was not and said the same things some are saying when I tell them these things.

But, if you knew what was at hand you would put down your tvs, games and toys and ask the Lord to show you how to discern the times and what it is he would have you to do to prepare.

There is going to come a time when we will have to depend on God for a drink of water and morsel of food.

There is coming a Great persecution of the Christians and Jews in this nation.

God is going to allow the enemies of America to invade this country coming off of the west coast after it starts to fall from all these disasters.

Money will be useless. Those who have put their trust in money and the things of this world are going to have to bow down to the Hand of the Almighty God.

There will civil unrest like nothing we have ever seen.

Millions will die.

When we saw New Orleans and bodies laying in the streets dead, God was giving us just a GLIMPSE of what this entire country will look like really soon.

It is not years people, it is around the corner. God is saying it will begin in a matter of months.

Pray and Prepare for this is just the beginning of the worst to come.

The average Pastor is not preparing his people because he can not hear from God. The Holy Spirit has be drowned out by all the spiritual activites and worldly pursuits of the Flesh.

Indeed our hope is in the Lord. It is the joy of the LORD that is our strength. If you love this world and the passing things in it, you can not be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

In these times God is going to use many of us as Spiritual Moses leading his people through this wilderness, those who God has been preparing on the back deserts for many years. You did not know why God was decreasing you and allowing so much loss in your life. But, it is because you have a HIGH CALLING of God and are called to be leaders in a time when MANY are going to be bewildered, distraught beyond words, confused beyond words, and totally hopeless.

We have a HOPE for them and it is JESUS CHRIST THE HOPE OF GLORY! IT is not the hope of anything in this world, for it is surely passing and everything in it.

Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2009, 09:14:13 AM
Praise God, spokenfor.  I will give a witness, a testimony, and publically say "Praise be to God" for His mercy, for His restoration of and blessings on me.  I too was broken, to the point of asking to be taken out of this life.  Loss of job, loss of "position", respect, esteem...loss of much (still a daily crucifying taking place) of self...

It was during this time God chose to pull back a piece of the veil and reveal His plan of ultimate reconciliation to me.  He lovingly broke me, then restored me...all glory be to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.  Amen.

Jabcat, You have a High Calling. God is going to use you to lead MANY people.

The same here Jabcat, It was during this time he pulled the veils off my eyes...What a wonderful day!

Quote from: noname on July 22, 2009, 12:17:54 PM
You're propably right Spokenfor...America's Israeli buddies are moving their submarine fleet through the Suez canal towards Iran...the usurpers of Joseph's birthright think they're playing a trump card, but history will repeat itself...Persia will be the fall of (Mystery) Babylon, again...God be with us all!

"come out of her my people..."

Absolutely!....You are so right.....

Quote from: firstborn888 on July 22, 2009, 10:43:29 AM
How are you preparing?

As the Lord leads me to prepare. There is only so much one can prepare for in the 'natural', because what we have will run out at some point anyway....and that is where we will learn to walk by Faith and Not Sight.

Spokenfor, I hear what you are saying.  I've been seeing it for over ten years now.  I understand what you are saying about the timing, also.   I started giving this message to people ten years ago.  No one wants to hear it.  I've been through such despair with this--why do you want me to say this to people who will not listen?

But, now people are starting to listen.  They are afraid.  They are saying it to me.

Something is changing.

These are not God's plans for us, although I have no doubt he will allow it unless people repent.

He is showing me a vision of what could be instead--and it is wonderful.

Martin is describing it.

We are at a cusp.  One way is total darkness, and the other way the brightest of light--heaven on earth.

It's up to us.


14If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

--2 Chron 7

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 22, 2009, 03:11:30 PM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 22, 2009, 09:49:15 AM

The Lord is saying we do not have YEARS anymore to play church and play around. We do not have YEARS anymore before he removes the hedge from around this country.

No I really do not believe it and it is based on this kind of thing.   Let's see God kept the hedges around this country in the past because we came here and killed indians, burned witches, brought slaves, prevented women from voting.

But now the progression of this country is not perfect but we have made things better, try to do the right things more and more, so now God's going to judge us more harshly because the church people approving of the things above have lost ground.

Nah, not buying it.

You are unfortunately very asleep and in slumber Brother. I pray that God removes the veil off of your eyes.

Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2009, 09:59:22 AM
Spokenfor, I hear what you are saying.  I've been seeing it for over ten years now.  I understand what you are saying about the timing, also.   I started giving this message to people ten years ago.  No one wants to hear it.  I've been through such despair with this--why do you want me to say this to people who will not listen?

But, now people are starting to listen.  They are afraid.  They are saying it to me.

Something is changing.

These are not God's plans for us, although I have no doubt he will allow it unless people repent.

He is showing me a vision of what could be instead--and it is wonderful.

Martin is describing it.

We are at a cusp.  One way is total darkness, and the other way the brightest of light--heaven on earth.

It's up to us.


14If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

--2 Chron 7

The time is getting closer. God could always change things, but that is when a nation repents. The Nation is not thinking about God. They are consumed with the lusts of this world.

God wants us to love Mercy and I do and God will show us his mercy during these trying times. But, he will not tarry for long competing with Flesh.

There are things that must happen that are not going to be stopped.

God has to allow us to decrease, so that we might increase.

God is removing some people out of here as a sign of his mercy. He knows those who will not be able to stand, and God and his loving mercy will remove those he knows were not meant to endure any of this.

But, unfortunately, people forget the God of the OT is still the God of today.

When he says repent and one does not repent, he will send a wake up call to jolt people back to him.

These are things that were predicted long ago to happen and must be.

It is a sign that coming of the Lord is closer than ever before. Our redemption draws nigh.

People only want the Prophets to speak "PEACE", but God says WOE unto to them who says Peace and Safety when there is none.

They want a tickle my ears and flesh and make me feel good word from God. God has given many of those, but he is sounding this alarm loud now..Because we do not have much time anymore.

For years, I know this message has been said..

But, you know what. Do not be discouraged, God will not be mocked..What a man sows he shall also reap. This is also the sowing and reaping of NATIONS who have turned their backs on God.

Quote from: onlytruth on July 22, 2009, 08:45:05 PM
Hi everyone...something is about to happen,but it is the realignment from our Father.
The things that will be brought down our imagi "nations".The church system as we know it will spiral downwards  and God fearing church members will end up   disillusioned.Their love of God will be shown as one of fear not of love and their hearts will fail them.I feel the people we need to be wary of are those that practiced "religion" the most as they will become lovers of themselves and hurt those around them.
This is the part that greaves my spirit,since some of these people are good friends of mine and I've already seen the pain they will go through and its not fun!
As there is great darkness... there will also be great lite! :icon_king:

You are speaking what the Lord speaks and it is the truth. Many are going to end up totally disillusioned and it will be fear and their hearts will fail them. One reason is because they have been serving the Lord out of fear and not love. Many of them are believing a health and wealth and prosper me and tickle my ears gospel. They do not want the real GOSPEL. The real Gospel calls one to DECREASE.

And yes, there will LIGHT in great darkness...Amen, Amen, Amen.......

Quote from: sheila on July 22, 2009, 07:49:40 PM
all nations are going to fall...

   He rules the nations with an iron rod.

  we are not to drink the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons

   one cup unto the children and offspring of God

  one cup unto the enemies of God.


     When the ARK SET FORWARD...


   RISE UP LORD AND LET THY ENEMIES BE SCATTERED

   AND LET THEM THAT HATE THEE FLEE BEFORE THEE


   WHEN THE ARK RESTED


  RETURN O'LORD TO THE MANY THOUSAND OF ISRAEL


   when Jesus appears again..HE WILL APPEAR APART/SEPERATE

  FROM SIN...HE WILL SEPERATE THE PEOPLE...

   HE WILL BAPTIZE WITH HOLY GHOST AND FIRE

  the sheep He acknowledges as of HIS SPIRIT

  the goats HE BAPTIZES WITH FIRE[y wrath/jealousy]

  there is a vessel fitted for destruction...

  and a vessel fitted for honour....

  the vessel of honor does NOT drink the cup of demons

  but the vessel of dishonor...

   the vessel of dishonor does not drink the cup of the LORD

  but the cup of demons

   take awy the dross from the silver...depart from me

   then shall ye return and discern the righteous from the wicked

  when HE comes  in judgement the people will learn

righteousness

  2 Thess 2;8 And then the lawless one will be revealed,

  whom the LORD JESUS WILL OVERTHROW

  WITH THE BREATH OF HIS MOUTH

  AND DESTROY BY THE SPLENDOR OF HIS COMING


   Can a NATION BE BORN IN A DAY?

  Isaih 66  Judgement and hope

   7  Before she goes into labour she gives birth

  before pains come upon her,she delivers a son


   Can a country be born in a day? or a nation be brought forth

  in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labour than she gives

birth to her children. Do I bring to the moment of birth and not

give delivery?Do I close up the womb when I bring to delivery?


  [Luke 21;28 when these things begin to take place,stand up

and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing

near]

  Isaaih 66;12 I will extend peace to her like a river, and

the welth of nations like a flooding stream....

  v 15  SEE, The LORD is COMING with FIRE, And HIS

  Chariots are like a whirlwind, HE WILL BRING DOWN HIS

ANGER WITH FURY,AND HIS REBUKE WITH FLAMES OF FIRE

  v 22  As the new heavens and new earth that I make will

endure before me,declares the LORD, so will your name and

descendants endure

I was just reading many of these verses earlier today....God is GOOD!.......Lift your heads, because your redemption draws nigh!

The problem with the health and wealth message, spokenfor, is that it has been made a false  idol--health and wealth for me and me only.  That's ok for children, but it is not something that is lasting unless there is health and wealth for all people.

The nations will survive because the nations come to the Holy city for healing.  He has come to give us abundant life. 

You are describing plans in the works for a long time--these are plans of evil men.  They might try but they will not succeed.  God's kingdom is meant to stand forever.

Right now he is raising up children who speak truth to power, ordinary people who are geniuses overnight, all kinds of new technologies bubbling up out of nowhere--things that have been surpressed for one hundred years.

And priests who will stand in the gap.


32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

--Gen 18

"But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

  Dear Spokenfor ,
You have also helped me  as a dear friend of mine also tells me these things and I DO believe it ..
How many witnesses does the Lord have to send before  we wake up out of our "comfort zones " and see how  these things are coming to pass upon the earth ?.
we have to lift up our heads  and LOOK TO THE LORD for our "lives"  no man can promise this only the Lord can  :thumbsup:
we as His must have FAITH  IN GOD at all times especially  in these  "times" .
I am reminded of these verses the Lord spoke and those who  hear His Voice
  the elect  are taken out of the world to Declare  and witness to His Worksand glory  and we  praise Him for all needs.........


  Luke 18 1


And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 

Luk 18:2   Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 


Luk 18:3   And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 


Luk 18:4   And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 


Luk 18:5   Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 


Luk 18:6   And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.  


Luk 18:7   And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?   
Luk 18:8  I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? 

if we have any faith in God right now , even the mustered mustard seed of faith it is time to   let it  grow   Not let it Go !!!! 

love to you for being so forthright  :HeartThrob:  rose

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 23, 2009, 10:00:09 AM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 22, 2009, 03:11:30 PM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 22, 2009, 09:49:15 AM

The Lord is saying we do not have YEARS anymore to play church and play around. We do not have YEARS anymore before he removes the hedge from around this country.

No I really do not believe it and it is based on this kind of thing.   Let's see God kept the hedges around this country in the past because we came here and killed indians, burned witches, brought slaves, prevented women from voting.

But now the progression of this country is not perfect but we have made things better, try to do the right things more and more, so now God's going to judge us more harshly because the church people approving of the things above have lost ground.

Nah, not buying it.

You are unfortunately very asleep and in slumber Brother. I pray that God removes the veil off of your eyes.

Easy to say, many people make claims,  whoop te doooo

No God will not be mocked, but most peoples opinion on the end times sure deserve it.


I can go back in time to 1974 to Charles Massagee coming to our church preaching the doom and gloom of the coming judgment by the year 2000,  and of course then people will say, oh  he should not have made a prediction.   But the guy is still talking about the end times the same as this OP,  oh yeah, he learned his lesson,  just don't make a prediction,  just be so incredibly vague that it means absolutly nothing except to those bound by FEAR.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 23, 2009, 10:00:09 AM

You are unfortunately very asleep and in slumber Brother. I pray that God removes the veil off of your eyes.

You know what really pisses me off about this, it is the fact that I came out of organized religion and have seen much greater truths, security, assurance for mankind.  I have learned to look past even more differences and try to see the the best of everything that I can.


And here you simply make a accusation as if I do not believe you then I need some kind of spiritual awakening.

*MOD CUT* I understand the emotions Paul - let's stay as civil as possible though.  :thumbsup:

I have to agree with Paul here.

My objection to this "Wrath of God = physical destruction" line of thinking is that it IS doom and gloom - at least for those who will supposedly be burned alive (or left half burned and alive) in 'God's' massive physical fires of wrath or crushed (or maybe slowly dehydrating to death while trapped under rubble) by buildings falling like dominoes (including 'innocent' babies and children).

I understand how many come to this conclusion but really, is massive violent painful death for the masses God's answer? For one particular country? I do not believe this is God's way of dealing with humanity in this age. The Gahenna judgement is over and done - almost 2000 years ago (AD 70).   

If ANYTHING, maybe those who claim to represent God but are prideful hypocrites will get some harsh treatment. The masses of lost sheep though are not slated for wrath AISI.

Now, as to the possibility of disaster striking in America - absolutely true. 911 proved that. America is in this world and by and large has been fortunate (yes - the bible says 'time and chance happen to all') to have avoided major calamity for many years. We DO have a false sense of insulation from harm that few countries have enjoyed - YET (as Paul H. pointed out) there have been many evils done throughout America's history as well as many noble things - JUST LIKE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES throughout history. There's the good the bad and the ugly among all races - all kindreds - all tongues. To ascribe our security to having pleased God all these years in a ridiculous notion (IMO).

America is the largest stronghold of protestant bible believing Christians in the world. Something to think about. Do I believe that gives us favor with God? Absolutely not - only Jesus gives us favor with God.

I'm open to discuss but really - please rethink the 'mass destruction' from God scenario. Try to picture Jesus slowly burning that little child alive. If you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing. Or picture Jesus slowly crushing a child to death (as an earthquake might) because again if you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing.

Now if you object to this and say "No, it's just the alternative to receiving God's blessings" then fine - take these actions (ascribed to be 'the acts of God') off the table and say it's the natural consequences of ignoring to God and NOT the acts of God. At least that would be a step in the right direction.  :thumbsup:

Ascribing this violent barbarism to God in this present day of grace is not on target. The goodness of God leads to repentance. Again - I'm no patsy - I realize violent dictators or leaders and such sometimes are going to get very harsh treatment - I'm talking about what some here are thinking God's going to do with the rank and file masses, cities, men women and children.

Very bad things may happen here - it will not be 'God' doing it though.

QuoteMy objection to this "Wrath of God = physical destruction" line of thinking is that it IS doom and gloom - at least for those who will supposedly be burned alive (or left half burned and alive) in 'God's' massive physical fires of wrath or crushed (or maybe slowly dehydrating to death while trapped under rubble) by buildings falling like dominoes (including 'innocent' babies and children).

What about the childern in Sodom and Gomorrha? Those in the Flood? The verse that about woman and childeren ordered to be killed.

QuoteVery bad things may happen here - it will not be 'God' doing it though.

Flood and Sodom where done by God.

Quote from: firstborn888 on July 24, 2009, 01:21:42 PM
My objection to this "Wrath of God = physical destruction" line of thinking is that it IS doom and gloom - at least for those who will supposedly be burned alive (or left half burned and alive) in 'God's' massive physical fires of wrath or crushed (or maybe slowly dehydrating to death while trapped under rubble) by buildings falling like dominoes (including 'innocent' babies and children).

I understand how many come to this conclusion but really, is massive violent painful death for the masses God's answer? For one particular country? I do not believe this is God's way of dealing with humanity in this age. The Gahenna judgement is over and done - almost 2000 years ago (AD 70).   

If ANYTHING, maybe those who claim to represent God but are prideful hypocrites will get some harsh treatment. The masses of lost sheep though are not slated for wrath AISI.

Now, as to the possibility of disaster striking in America - absolutely true. 911 proved that. America is in this world and by and large has been fortunate (yes - the bible says 'time and chance happen to all') to have avoided major calamity for many years. We DO have a false sense of insulation from harm that few countries have enjoyed - YET (as Paul H. pointed out) there have been many evils done throughout America's history as well as many noble things - JUST LIKE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES throughout history. There's the good the bad and the ugly among all races - all kindreds - all tongues. To ascribe our security to having pleased God all these years in a ridiculous notion (IMO).

America is the largest stronghold of protestant bible believing Christians in the world. Something to think about. Do I believe that gives us favor with God? Absolutely not - only Jesus gives us favor with God.

I'm open to discuss but really - please rethink the 'mass destruction' from God scenario. Try to picture Jesus slowly burning that little child alive. If you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing. Or picture Jesus slowly crushing a child to death (as an earthquake might) because again if you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing.

Now if you object to this and say "No, it's just the alternative to receiving God's blessings" then fine - take these actions (ascribed to be 'the acts of God') off the table and say it's the natural consequences of ignoring to God and NOT the acts of God. At least that would be a step in the right direction.  :thumbsup:

Ascribing this violent barbarism to God in this present day of grace is not on target. The goodness of God leads to repentance. Again - I'm no patsy - I realize violent dictators or leaders and such sometimes are going to get very harsh treatment - I'm talking about what some here are thinking God's going to do with the rank and file masses, cities, men women and children.

Very bad things may happen here - it will not be 'God' doing it though.

:thumbsup:

Have you ever read the book, Jehovah unmasked?  I'm not sure I agree with it all, but there is some compelling evidence that the Jehovah of the old testament isn't the TRUE GOD that Jesus revealed.  Worthwhile read imo; if interested in one way of reconciling the "murdering" God and TRUE GOD, the FATHER.

Quote from: Zeek on July 24, 2009, 01:56:10 PM

Have you ever read the book, Jehovah unmasked?  I'm not sure I agree with it all, but there is some compelling evidence that the Jehovah of the old testament isn't the TRUE GOD that Jesus revealed.  Worthwhile read imo; if interested in one way of reconciling the "murdering" God and TRUE GOD, the FATHER.

I have friends who told me about it. I think it has some truth but is a little too 'gnostic' of a view overall, definitely too gnostic for the purposes of this website.  :Sparkletooth:

I think it is safe to say that the OT was a veiled/darkened view of God, darkened my the limitations of man and the weakness of the flesh. Actually though - in many ways the NT is just as harsh or more unless you understand the national judgements against Israel.

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 24, 2009, 01:42:46 PM

QuoteMy objection to this "Wrath of God = physical destruction" line of thinking is that it IS doom and gloom - at least for those who will supposedly be burned alive (or left half burned and alive) in 'God's' massive physical fires of wrath or crushed (or maybe slowly dehydrating to death while trapped under rubble) by buildings falling like dominoes (including 'innocent' babies and children).

What about the childern in Sodom and Gomorrha? Those in the Flood? The verse that about woman and childeren ordered to be killed.

QuoteVery bad things may happen here - it will not be 'God' doing it though.

Flood and Sodom where done by God.

I understand all that. That's why I said "In this age of grace". If the things you mention above could solve anything (the bible clearly says that the first covenant was flawed) then there would have been no reason to change anything. Just punish and kill and make them suffer until they are humbled enough to repent, right? Many don't take into account that even Jesus was still operating under the old covenant (pre-crucifixion) and that the Pauline warnings were pre AD70 - speaking of that national wrath soon to come upon Israel and Jerusalem.   

The LORD said - When I bring the sword (enemy) upon a land, if the people set a watchman
and he sees the sword coming and he WARNS the PEOPLE,
Then whoever hears the sound and will not take warning, his blood shall be upon his own head.

But if the watchman sees the sword (enemy) and DOES NOT warn the people, and they die,
their blood will I require at the watchman's hand.  Ezekiel 33 also chapter 3 paraphrased

Quote from: firstborn888 on July 24, 2009, 02:10:19 PM
I understand all that. That's why I said "In this age of grace". If the things you mention above could solve anything (the bible clearly says that the first covenant was flawed) then there would have been no reason to change anything. Just punish and kill and make them suffer until they are humbled enough to repent, right? Many don't take into account that even Jesus was still operating under the old covenant (pre-crucifixion) and that the Pauline warnings were pre AD70 - speaking of that national wrath soon to come upon Israel and Jerusalem.   

Yes, I know you wrote age of grace. It's not possible for me to forget the OT when reading the NT.
Usually people on this forum are linking verses from OT and NT.
But when I ask about the horror of flood/Sodom I have to look only at the grace part.
God does not change.
It's like a murderer in court.
Murder: Judge I did kill those people. But that was a month ago. Now I'm a kind loving guy.
Judge: Ok, you are free to go.

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 24, 2009, 02:17:22 PM

Yes, I know you wrote age of grace. It's not possible for me to forget the OT when reading the NT.
Usually people on this forum are linking verses from OT and NT.
But when I ask about the horror of flood/Sodom I have to look only at the grace part.
God does not change.

Oh, but His dealings with man DRASTICALLY change as does our understanding of Him. Why would God make a flawed covenant? Heb. 8:7 "For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another".

QuoteI'm open to discuss but really - please rethink the 'mass destruction' from God scenario. Try to picture Jesus slowly burning that little child alive. If you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing. Or picture Jesus slowly crushing a child to death (as an earthquake might) because again if you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing.

well, let's take the world trade center.  What could we call that?  Was that the wrath of God? Or the actions of a bunch of criminals, and not the boxcutter variety.  I see it as a wake up call but nobody woke up.  We then allowed our leaders to invade two countries, as if that made any sense.  It didn't make sense then, and it makes even less sense now.  But it's still going on.  How can God's grace and favour shine on such an ungodly people--and by that I mean a people who doesn't turn to God for answers but turns instead to their evil leaders?  What does repent mean?  It means change your way of thinking.

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly, and look to the real Shepherd as our king, rather than the thieves who have climbed into the sheep pen for way too long now.  Or what?  God won't bring this down on us, we will ourselves.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:22:05 PM

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 04:43:39 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:22:05 PM

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:47:49 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 04:43:39 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:22:05 PM

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

There is always room for improvement.  But current events really has nothing to do with God being more likely to pull the plug now as opposed to our past history.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 04:57:57 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:47:49 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 04:43:39 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:22:05 PM

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

There is always room for improvement.  But current events really has nothing to do with God being more likely to pull the plug now as opposed to our past history.

God is not pulling the plug, man is.  You are watching a train wreck in slow motion.

The engineer is asleep and the train is being remote controlled by a bunch of criminals.

Only God can save us.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:59:37 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 04:57:57 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:47:49 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 04:43:39 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 04:22:05 PM

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

There is always room for improvement.  But current events really has nothing to do with God being more likely to pull the plug now as opposed to our past history.

God is not pulling the plug, man is.  You are watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Only God can save us.

Events of the past make these kinds of statements irrevelant to center on gloom today. 

Jesus is the saviour of all mankind, yes indeed.

QuoteEvents of the past make these kinds of statements irrevelant to center on gloom today. 

Jesus is the saviour of all mankind, yes indeed.

well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view.  It's like the guy in the burning building who refuses the help of the fire department because he says God will save him.  When he dies and goes to heaven he accuses God of not saving him.  And, God says, I did.  I sent the fire department. 

The prophets are the fire department.

I really don't relish the thought of repeating the high tech version of the dark ages even if Jesus has always been the Saviour of mankind. 

The bottom line is we need to repent as a nation and stop making deals with the devil.

Quote
well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 05:23:12 PM

Quote
well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

I added up above--the prophets are the fire department.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 05:25:47 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 05:23:12 PM

Quote
well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

I added up above--the prophets are the fire department.

No,  be specific to me,  your addressing me,  talk to me,  don't accuse me,  don't add me to your WE unless you can explain why I am passive.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 05:27:33 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 05:25:47 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 05:23:12 PM

Quote
well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

I added up above--the prophets are the fire department.

No,  be specific to me,  your addressing me,  talk to me,  don't accuse me,  don't add me to your WE unless you can explain why I am passive.

I don't really know you well enough to talk to you personally.  But, I can see you are rejecting the message of God's prophets.  Now maybe you have been lucky enough to avoid the disaster that has come down on much of this country to date, and maybe people living in tent cities means nothing to you, and maybe millions of people dead on the other side of the world means nothing, also.

But, God is still calling people to repent, through his prophets, because this thing could still be turned around.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 05:37:13 PM
I don't really know you well enough to talk to you personally. 

But you are.

Quote
But, I can see you are rejecting the message of God's prophets. 

No, here is the thing,  I reject the modern interpretation in parallel to modern events.   That is not rejecting what you accuse.  I have every right to be skeptical,  I'm 45 years old and I heard the same message using the modern events of the time when I was 12.

It is not God's prophets I am rejecting, it is man.  Is not man who we are told NOT to trust?

But, you accuse me, and think your justified in doing so.   That shows me the will of your own carnality at work.

Quote
Now maybe you have been lucky enough to avoid the disaster that has come down on much of this country to date

Lucky?   You think I have been lucky?  What gives you any evidence to say something such as this?

Quote
and maybe people living in tent cities means nothing to you, and maybe millions of people dead on the other side of the world means nothing, also.

I pray everyday that more people come to know the gracious God I have come to know, but living in fear, being emotional and distraught will NOT help me keep in tune with the spirit so that it can work on my behalf.

And that's all that surround the religious assertion of the end times and whatever it may entail, emotions, fear, doom.


Accuse all you like, I will not go down that road again.   Think what you will, your doing great at it.

QuoteI pray everyday that more people come to know the gracious God I have come to know,...

That sounds good to me.

That's what you are called to do, then.

Others are called to warn people and call them to repent.

And, that's what they are doing.

QuoteNo, here is the thing,  I reject the modern interpretation in parallel to modern events.   That is not rejecting what you accuse.  I have every right to be skeptical,  I'm 45 years old and I heard the same message using the modern events of the time when I was 12.

If this country had repented 33 years ago, we wouldn't be in the boat we are in now.

You are right in saying there is nothing new, it's the same old dead end road, but when you can see for yourself that the road is going nowhere, it's time to turn around and go in a different direction.

We need to go in a different direction because the road is ending, as it always was going to end.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 06:19:02 PM
it's the same old dead end road,

Yep, accusers still accusing offering nothing to increase faith.   

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 06:29:05 PM

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 06:19:02 PM
it's the same old dead end road,

Yep, accusers still accusing offering nothing to increase faith.   

Interestingly enough, no one listened to the prophets in the Old Testament.  God's glory was then shown through the statements of the prophets coming true.  Unfortunately, this is a hard way to gain faith.

The prophets in the Old Testament always showed a way out--

"If you will return, Israel,
      return to me,"
   announces the Lord.
   "Put the statues of your gods out of my sight.
      I hate them.
      Stop going down the wrong path.
2 Take all of your oaths in my name.
      Say, 'You can be sure that the Lord is alive.'
      Let all of your promises be truthful, fair and honest.
   Then I will bless the nations.
      And they will take delight in me."

--Jer 4

Yes, so really, nothing has changed, Christians keep listening to men and then start making accusations when their belief in men is not believed.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 07:32:25 PM


Yes, so really, nothing has changed, Christians keep listening to men and then start making accusations when their belief in men is not believed.

Not sure what you mean.  Prophets are men, speaking the words of God. They are being shown the future for a reason, so they can communicate it to God's people.  They are being told by God to communicate certain messages--



1 A message came to me from the Lord. He said, 2 "Go. Announce my message to the people in Jerusalem. I want everyone to hear it. Tell them,

   " 'I remember how faithful you were to me when you were young.
      You loved me as if you were my bride.
   You followed me through the desert.
      Nothing had been planted there.
3 Your people were holy to me.
      They were the first share of my harvest.
   All those who destroyed them were held guilty.
      And trouble came to their enemies,' "
   announces the Lord.

--Jer 2

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 07:54:42 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 07:32:25 PM


Yes, so really, nothing has changed, Christians keep listening to men and then start making accusations when their belief in men is not believed.

Not sure what you mean.  Prophets are men, speaking the words of God. They are being shown the future for a reason, so they can communicate it to God's people.  They are being told by God to communicate certain messages--



1 A message came to me from the Lord. He said, 2 "Go. Announce my message to the people in Jerusalem. I want everyone to hear it. Tell them,

   " 'I remember how faithful you were to me when you were young.
      You loved me as if you were my bride.
   You followed me through the desert.
      Nothing had been planted there.
3 Your people were holy to me.
      They were the first share of my harvest.
   All those who destroyed them were held guilty.
      And trouble came to their enemies,' "
   announces the Lord.

--Jer 2

For 33 years I have watched Christians listen to men, nothing has changed,  you and spokenfor offered me nothing but accusation, how is that listening to Gods prophets when my own life and my beliefs and doing what I can could not be seen.

You think the spirit could not have seen that?   I had to defend myself in order to counter the accusation?   There is no Godly spirit coming about there.

I live in this world but I am not OF this world.

This world system... is what it is.

I am what I am.

one person.


All I know is that I am trying to let God's love shine through me as much as possible.


What else am I supposed to do??

I'm not going to instill fear in anyone.

Fear is darkness.
I will have no part in that.
And I don't think we, as people who know the reality of God's love for all of His creatures should have a part in this fearmongering either. I really don't.

The way I see it, we need to lay down the "the end is near" signs and pick up the "GOD LOVES YOU, WORLD!" signs.

Showing more love and kicking the hell out of all the fear.

I don't fear.
Man can do NOTHING to me.
What can Man do to me, What is the worst man can do to me?
Kill me?
And...??
This isn't my home anyway.
This isn't ANYONE's home.

LOVE. That's the best I can do.
Is just go out and do whatever I can to put the love that He has put into MY heart, into someone elses heart. Love is the ONLY thing that is going to CHANGE anything.
LOVE is the most powerful thing in this universe because GOD is love. There is a lot of suffering people out there, the last thing they need is more fear.

That is all I can think to do.
I don't know what else I CAN do.
and I WON'T have any part of spreading a message of fear.
A year ago... perhaps I would.
Not now.


well... that's my 2.5 cents.
perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm misguided... :dontknow:
But that's where I'm at.

QuoteFor 33 years I have watched Christians listen to men, nothing has changed,  you and spokenfor offered me nothing but accusation, how is that listening to Gods prophets when my own life and my beliefs and doing what I can could not be seen.

You think the spirit could not have seen that?   I had to defend myself in order to counter the accusation?   There is no Godly spirit coming about there.

well, I don't know what men they were listening to or what the men were saying--but from where I sit, nothing has changed in 33 years--so...either they were saying the wrong thing or not enough were listening (probably the latter).

But, I don't see what that has to do with what is being said on this thread now.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 08:09:12 PM
either they were saying the wrong thing or not enough were listening (probably the latter).

Over all it is the message that God's gonna get us,  it's not really about love,  or the personal accusations when someone doesn't see it someones way would stop.

I agree sparrow, thanks for sharing the issue of love that seems to be missing from this area.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 24, 2009, 08:22:28 PM


I agree sparrow, thanks for sharing the issue of love that seems to be missing from this area.

With few exceptions (sociopaths maybe - and even them deep inside) that's what everyone really wants and that's why they lash out in fear by not experiencing. Threats of doom just up the rebellion.  David Wilkerson had the right approach with a hardened criminal named Nicky Cruz (whom I've worked for) but he forgot and now uses threats of violence. Threats of violence is abuse folks. You can get arrested for that.

QuoteThreats of violence is abuse folks. You can get arrested for that.

What 'threats of violence' are you talking about?  If you could be specific...

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 09:47:25 PM

QuoteThreats of violence is abuse folks. You can get arrested for that.

What 'threats of violence' are you talking about?  If you could be specific...

It's in the OP

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 22, 2009, 09:49:15 AM

I believe this country is going to go through a serious shaking of God really soon.

We are going to be in serious civil unrest in this country.

Major cities are going to be destroyed and burning and much more...much more..
Yes, Judgment is on the way to this country and it is at the door.

This is not just saying (as you say) that we are left to our own devices (which I don't believe in either) but it is saying that God's hands are inflicting the burning and destruction of cities and later SPOKENFOR says God will knock buildings down like dominos (I assume buildings with people in them).

That's threats of violence.

*edit* If you're asking what threats David Wilkerson made, he made the same threats of violence from God the OP made. He says the entire New York/New Jersey metroplex will be burned with great fires (from God).

QuoteThat's threats of violence.

Oh.  well, I don't see that as threats of violence in that she's not saying she's going to do it, she's not threatening to walk into buildings with bombs, or some group she's representing, or whatever.  She is simply relaying what she says she is seeing from God.

Take it or leave it.

Only if you believe her would you even find it threatening.  And, if you believe her, you might pause and ask yourself why.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 10:23:57 PM

QuoteThat's threats of violence.

Oh.  well, I don't see that as threats of violence in that she's not saying she's going to do it, she's not threatening to walk into buildings with bombs, or some group she's representing, or whatever.  She is simply relaying what she says she is seeing from God.

Take it or leave it.

Only if you believe her would you even find it threatening.  And, if you believe her, you might pause and ask yourself why.

Jesus is cool, but sometimes his followers give me the creeps.

The purpose of this thread is not to instill fear in anyone. I am so sorry it has been taken that way. Unfortunately, some people will take it that way.

I am not going to try to debate every post directed to me.

I will say what I feel lead to say and you say what you feel lead to say.

In it all, the truth is, we are standing at the door of a turning point in this country and a testing of our faith and a maturing in Christ.

There is nothing to fear when your house is built on the solid rock of Christ and you are not attached to this world.

These things should bring HOPE that are redemption is drawing nearer to the coming of our Lord.

BTW, In everything God allows as we know it is because of his LOVE. Nowhere is loving missing in anything I have said, nowhere.

Nice post/good explanation, spokenfor  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Zeek on July 24, 2009, 01:56:10 PM

Have you ever read the book, Jehovah unmasked?  I'm not sure I agree with it all, but there is some compelling evidence that the Jehovah of the old testament isn't the TRUE GOD that Jesus revealed.  Worthwhile read imo; if interested in one way of reconciling the "murdering" God and TRUE GOD, the FATHER.

I know there's more to the story, and I'll check it out further, but this is the first review I found of the book ...
:eyebrow:

"Rev. Merritt illustrates a powerful personal journey....JEHOVAH UNMASKED represents another nail in the biblical coffin that contains a mummified and rotten god belonging to the violent barbarians and troglodytes of the Stone Age."

--Acharya S, author of The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God

Quote from: jabcat on July 25, 2009, 02:10:00 AM
Nice post spokenfor  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Zeek on July 24, 2009, 01:56:10 PM

Have you ever read the book, Jehovah unmasked?  I'm not sure I agree with it all, but there is some compelling evidence that the Jehovah of the old testament isn't the TRUE GOD that Jesus revealed.  Worthwhile read imo; if interested in one way of reconciling the "murdering" God and TRUE GOD, the FATHER.

A review of the book...

"Rev. Merritt illustrates a powerful personal journey....JEHOVAH UNMASKED represents another nail in the biblical coffin that contains a mummified and rotten god belonging to the violent barbarians and troglodytes of the Stone Age."

--Acharya S, author of The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God

Hi Jabcat...   :grin:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 02:09:05 AM
I will say what I feel lead to say and you say what you feel lead to say.

Please bravely continue, I eagerly await your posts.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 02:34:13 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 02:09:05 AM
I will say what I feel lead to say and you say what you feel lead to say.

Please bravely continue, I eagerly await your posts.

Yes, I will bravely continue. As the Lord leads, I sure will.

The OP is painting the picture of God as the angry, fist in the air God who is exacting revenge on His creation.

How is this glorifying God?

Can anyone tell me...?

I just don't get this at all.

If there is destruction coming... it's man-made. Not God-made.

Mankind destroys itself everyday.
All throughout history.
Mankind destroys itself.


People forge God's signature on disastrous things all the time.

God isn't "at his breaking point" and is getting ready to explode with anger and shake everyone up. God is longsuffering towards us. Judgements are built INTO This world.
Whatever happens isn't because GOD is doing it... it's because MANKIND is doing it to ITSELF.

But God is longsuffering towards us and will gather ALL of his Sheep and will go after the lost sheep everytime.


Again, this is just where I am... maybe I am misguided, maybe I am wrong..
but I just can't buy into the angry god who's just waiting to shake us up by burning cities or whatever.
I just don't see it.
Mankind is going to take non-love as far as it will go.
But God's hand reaches farther.
Every single time.
Mankind has always taken evil (non-love) as far as they can take it...
History repeats itself.
Until, I guess one day... mankind will finally start to learn what God is trying to teach.
Perhaps one day mankind will see the pattern that is forming.
That which is outside of love leads to misery.
It isn't God getting fed up... it's just that these things are built into this world.
These are the laws of nature.

Like Fire... you are walking towards a huge fire... your skin starts to feel warm, then it starts to get hot as you get closer, then you move closer, your hair starts to singe, you move closer your skin is so hot it is almost on fire, you mover even closer, now you ARE on fire... you keep going you will DESTROY yourself. God isn't PULLING you into the fire! HE isn't PUSHING you into the fire from behind. He is standing there telling you NOT to go into the fire!
That is the problem I have with this angry "fist in the air" god that people are painting.
It's just.... It's false.
MANKIND is walking into the fire.
God isn't PUSHING us into it.
and He isn't PULLING us into it.
and that is what I feel people are saying..
That God has had enough and He is pushing us all into the fire.



Well.... :dontknow: what do I know.
I'm just a lone sparrow.
sitting on the rooftop trying to make sense of the madness...

that's all.

Maybe it's like:
First time:      Junior, don't touch the stove, its HOT!
Second time:  Junior, don't touch the stove, its HOT!
Third time:     Parent lets Junior touch the stove!

then

Junior gets older and parent says:

Oh! I'm not going on with the parable,
It's Avarice, Hubris and Ambition!
Same 'ol Same 'ol!

continued...

and maybe someone will say...
well tomato to-mah-to...
it's all the same thing.

but... I just don't see it as being the same thing.
God is longsuffering towards us.
We are bringing about our own demise.
There is SO MUCH horrible FEAR when it comes to God.
Do you know how many people are SCARED of God?
It's AWFUL!!
To fear God (as in AWE) is the fear we are supposed to have.
But this "God is going to get us" stuff... it creates the BAD fear.
The worse kind of fear there is.
The fear that builds a wall around a person's heart and pushes God OUT.
Keeping God at arm's length.. and crying with fear. instead of seeing comfort and embracing God.

We shouldn't fan the flames of fear.
because we know this world is not our home.
We know that with mankind running things..
it's NEVER going to be right.

It won't be until God is all in all....
We have HOPE.

and it's that HOPE that we should be sharing.
not spreading more fear.

The hope comes from realizing just how much GOD truly LOVES us.
That is what will bring healing.
The knowledge of God's love...

But Sparrow,
You are in the TENT!
No fear or faintness here.
She is not speaking to the masses.
Take off your shoes, you're on holy ground.

Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2009, 10:23:57 PM

QuoteThat's threats of violence.

Oh.  well, I don't see that as threats of violence in that she's not saying she's going to do it, she's not threatening to walk into buildings with bombs, or some group she's representing, or whatever.  She is simply relaying what she says she is seeing from God.

Take it or leave it.

Only if you believe her would you even find it threatening.  And, if you believe her, you might pause and ask yourself why.

No No No Molly. Spokenfor is obviously a gentle beautiful child of God. I'm only talking about the theology here.  :Sparkletooth:

God is long suffering.  Jeremiah was prophesying to Judah--I don't know how long--but probably for decades before the Babylonian captivity.

Jeremiah is called the broken-hearted prophet because he knows that no one will listen to him, and because he not only speaks God's words, he feels and suffers the very heart of God--with anger, pain, sadness, and disappointment over his people.  God is not talking to one person through the prophet, he is talking to a nation.


God showing his anger, displeasure, and judgment of his people--

14 The Lord said to me, "Something very bad will be poured out on everyone who lives in this land. It will come from the north. 15 I am about to send for all of the armies in the northern kingdoms," announces the Lord.
  "Their kings will come to Jerusalem.
     They will set up their thrones at the very gates of the city.
  They will attack all of the walls that surround the city.
     They will go to war against all of the towns of Judah.
16 I will judge my people.
     They have done many evil things.
     They have deserted me.
  They have burned incense to other gods.
     They have worshiped the gods
     their own hands have made.
--Jer 1


God showing his hurt and pain that his people have turned their backs on him--

5 The Lord says,
  "What did your people find wrong with me?
     Why did they wander so far away from me?
  They worshiped worthless statues of gods.
     Then they themselves became worthless.
6 They did not ask, 'Where is the Lord?
     He brought us up out of Egypt.
  He led us through a dry and empty land.
     He guided us through deserts and deep valleys.
  It was a land of darkness where there wasn't any rain.
     No one lived or traveled there.'
7 But I brought you into a land that has rich soil.
     I gave you its fruit and its finest food.
  In spite of that, you polluted my land.
     You turned it into something I hate.
8 The priests did not ask,
     'Where is the Lord?'
  Those who taught my law did not know me.
     The leaders refused to obey me.
  The prophets prophesied in the name of Baal.
     They worshiped worthless statues of gods.
9 "So I am bringing charges against you again,"
  announces the Lord.

--Jeremiah 2



God finding the behavior of his people almost incomprehensible in it's perverseness--

13 "My people have sinned twice.
  They have deserted me,
     even though I am the spring of water that gives life.
  And they have dug their own wells.
     But those wells are broken.
     They can't hold any water.
14 Are you people of Israel servants?
     You were not born as slaves, were you?
     Then why have you been carried off like stolen goods?

--Jeremiah 2



God's disgust at the behavior of his bride--

2 "Look up at the bare hilltops.
     Is there any place where you have not committed adultery with other gods?
  By the side of the road you sat waiting for lovers.
     You sat there like someone who wanders in the desert.
  You have polluted the land.
     You are like a sinful prostitute.

--Jeremiah 3



God's broken heart at the outcome--

19 I'm suffering! I'm really suffering!
     I'm hurting badly.
  My heart is suffering so much!
     It's pounding inside me.
     I can't keep silent.
  I've heard the sound of trumpets.
     I've heard the battle cry.
20 One trouble follows another.
     The whole land is destroyed.
  In an instant my tents are gone.
     My home disappears in a moment.
21 How long must I look at our enemy's battle flag?
     How long must I hear the sound of the trumpets?


--Jeremiah 4



And, always begging them to have a change of heart, to repent--

16 The Lord tells the people of Judah,
  "Stand where the roads cross, and look around.
     Ask where the old paths are.
  Ask for the good path, and walk on it.
     Then your hearts will find rest in me.

--Jeremiah 6

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 04:33:07 AM
The OP is painting the picture of God as the angry, fist in the air God who is exacting revenge on His creation.

How is this glorifying God?

Can anyone tell me...?

I just don't get this at all.

If there is destruction coming... it's man-made. Not God-made.

Mankind destroys itself everyday.
All throughout history.
Mankind destroys itself.


People forge God's signature on disastrous things all the time.

God isn't "at his breaking point" and is getting ready to explode with anger and shake everyone up. God is longsuffering towards us. Judgements are built INTO This world.
Whatever happens isn't because GOD is doing it... it's because MANKIND is doing it to ITSELF.

But God is longsuffering towards us and will gather ALL of his Sheep and will go after the lost sheep everytime.


Again, this is just where I am... maybe I am misguided, maybe I am wrong..
but I just can't buy into the angry god who's just waiting to shake us up by burning cities or whatever.
I just don't see it.
Mankind is going to take non-love as far as it will go.
But God's hand reaches farther.
Every single time.
Mankind has always taken evil (non-love) as far as they can take it...
History repeats itself.
Until, I guess one day... mankind will finally start to learn what God is trying to teach.
Perhaps one day mankind will see the pattern that is forming.
That which is outside of love leads to misery.
It isn't God getting fed up... it's just that these things are built into this world.
These are the laws of nature.

Like Fire... you are walking towards a huge fire... your skin starts to feel warm, then it starts to get hot as you get closer, then you move closer, your hair starts to singe, you move closer your skin is so hot it is almost on fire, you mover even closer, now you ARE on fire... you keep going you will DESTROY yourself. God isn't PULLING you into the fire! HE isn't PUSHING you into the fire from behind. He is standing there telling you NOT to go into the fire!
That is the problem I have with this angry "fist in the air" god that people are painting.
It's just.... It's false.
MANKIND is walking into the fire.
God isn't PUSHING us into it.
and He isn't PULLING us into it.
and that is what I feel people are saying..
That God has had enough and He is pushing us all into the fire.



Well.... :dontknow: what do I know.
I'm just a lone sparrow.
sitting on the rooftop trying to make sense of the madness...

that's all.

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 04:48:10 AM
But Sparrow,
You are in the TENT!
No fear or faintness here.
She is not speaking to the masses.
Take off your shoes, you're on holy ground.

NNNIIIIICCCCEEEE!  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:14:32 AM

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

I don't identify with the OT god of wrath.
I trust in Christ and His teachings. I don't know what else to say.
This is my path and I'm just sharing what's in my heart.

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 05:24:12 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:14:32 AM

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

I don't identify with the OT god of wrath.
I trust in Christ and His teachings. I don't know what else to say.
This is my path and I'm just sharing what's in my heart.

And I trust and thank God for your heart, as it is my heart too.  But; the new testament is full of messages of a coming wrath.  It's not just the old testament.   

My question that I asked you is the question I am going through.  How do I reconcile this?   

Oh! fear not Zeek.
You are IN the Ark.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 05:30:06 AM
Oh! fear not Zeek.
You are IN the Ark.

But what about those outside of the ark?? 

Jud 1:23  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Faith>doubt

Zeek, really! have you not seen the rainbow?

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 05:34:00 AM
Zeek, really! have you not seen the rainbow?

please elaborate,

please

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:14:32 AM

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

Good points Zeek.  Sparrow, you often say such loving, wonderful things.  Blessings to you dear sister.  I started to reply to your post, but God prompted "not now".  I didn't want to seem to be directly coming against you, this is such a complicated topic, IMO. 
Then I saw Zeek's post and thought I'm wander in here  :search:.

I struggle with this one.  Just like you mentioning the book, Zeek.  Anyway, so, unfortunately, IMO, this is one of those topics it would be nice to really get some helpful perspectives from others on, but is so difficult to do.  My personal thoughts are along the lines of "there sure are some things to wonder about regarding God's wrath in the OT and His mercy we espouse in the New.  Although I am not sure we always see His mercy and wrath for what they really are, in that I'm afraid our perspective (including too much of a view of this life and not enough of the next) sometimes confuses our ability to just accept what God says, believe it, humble ourselves before it, and then just walk humbly before our God with it.  Remember Job saying, though God slay me yet I will trust Him?  I'm afraid many of us have such a need to create God into an image that fits our thoughts, feelings, imaginations ["why, MY God wouldn't do that!"] that we end up...where?  I'm really not sure.  I know I just want to know more about this, yet believe very strongly we need to really be carefull and not create some mush god in our own minds that misses the mark on Who God the Father of Abraham and Jesus really is.  My  :2c:.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 02:09:05 AM
The purpose of this thread is not to instill fear in anyone. I am so sorry it has been taken that way. Unfortunately, some people will take it that way.

I know your not trying to instill fear SF. The things you have seen may even happen, they have happened to some degree before. I'm just saying these are things we do to ourselves, that's all. And yes, if we would all serve God then they would not happen. I'm not trying to tear you down at all.  :bigGrin:

God is not a one dimensional being with only one feeling.  That's the message for me from the Old Testament.  He has the same feelings we have.  He can be hurt.  He can be angry.   He can be jealous.  He can be sad.

Oprah said she couldn't deal with a jealous God.

well, how would she feel in days past if Steadman was running around constantly with other women?  Why is it so hard for her to identify with that?

People don't fear God or they would be good.

They don't love him or they would be righteous.  If we love someone, we don't want to continually hurt them with our behaviour.

P.S.  to my post...For instance, in terms of being REALLY careful...would a book that merits this type of response (Rev. Merritt illustrates a powerful personal journey....JEHOVAH UNMASKED represents another nail in the biblical coffin that contains a mummified and rotten god belonging to the violent barbarians and troglodytes of the Stone Age."  --Acharya S, author of The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God)  be very likely to present to me our true God and Father?   

Maybe, but doesn't that at least make you think?

Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

Quote from: Molly on July 25, 2009, 05:46:07 AM
God is not a one dimensional being with only one feeling.  That's the message for me from the Old Testament.  He has the same feelings we have.  He can be hurt.  He can be angry.   He can be jealous.  He can be sad.

Oprah said she couldn't deal with a jealous God.

well, how would she feel in days past if Steadman was running around constantly with other women?  Why is it so hard for her to identify with that?

People don't fear God or they would be good.

They don't love him or they would be righteous.  If we love someone, we don't want to continually hurt them with our behaviour.

Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

envyings:

G5355
φθόνος
phthonos
fthon'-os
Probably akin to the base of G5351; ill will (as detraction), that is, jealousy (spite): - envy.

1Co 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

G2206
ζηλόω
zēloō
dzay-lo'-o
From G2205; to have warmth of feeling for or against: - affect, covet (earnestly), (have) desire, (move with) envy, be jealous over, (be) zealous (-ly affect).

God is love

Exo 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

visiting:

H6485
פּקד
pâqad
paw-kad'
A primitive root; to visit (with friendly or hostile intent); by analogy to oversee, muster, charge, care for, miss, deposit, etc.: - appoint, X at all, avenge, bestow, (appoint to have the, give a) charge, commit, count, deliver to keep, be empty, enjoin, go see, hurt, do judgment, lack, lay up look, make X by any means, miss, number, officer, (make) overseer have (the) oversight, punish, reckon, (call to) remember (-brance), set (over), sum, X surely, visit, want.

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:28:05 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 05:24:12 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:14:32 AM

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

I don't identify with the OT god of wrath.
I trust in Christ and His teachings. I don't know what else to say.
This is my path and I'm just sharing what's in my heart.

And I trust and thank God for your heart, as it is my heart too.  But; the new testament is full of messages of a coming wrath.  It's not just the old testament.   

My question that I asked you is the question I am going through.  How do I reconcile this?   

The way I reconcile it is seeing it the way I described in the fire scenario.
Non-love (and it's ways, shapes and forms) leads to misery.

God is LOVE.

God is not FORCING anyone down the path of non-love.
We walk there ourselves and we walk individually, and we walk there as a whole.

Individually, when we walk down the path of non-love, we feel the "judgement". the consequences.

As a WHOLE.... we will feel the "judgement". the consequences.

This is how we LEARN. By the contrast of love and non-love.

Love leads to life...
Non-love leads to death...
figuratively and literally.


As a whole, (as a nation or what have you) the judgements will be felt.
But it isn't God forcing us down this path.
We are walking down this path on our own.

Go back and read my fire scenario again...
This is what I'm talking about.

The more we share the LOVE of God with others...
there are going to be less people walking down that path that leads to death (judgement.)
Judgements are felt 24/7 365 days a year. This is what this life IS.
LEARNING.

But the idea that God is shaking His fist at us and is up in the sky throwing down lightning bolts is what I'm hearing people are saying. That's a wrong picture, in my opinion.

We need to share the LOVE of God more than anything.

People are looking in all the wrong places and that is why they go down the destructive paths they go down. We need to point them towards our Loving Father. NOT the same old angry, god in the sky shaking His fist that they hear about from every Pastor, Preacher and Minister out there in the WORLD.

We ARE in the "tent".
So let's start ACTING like it.



That's all I was trying to get across....

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 05:51:13 AM
Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

But why would our Abba deluge the world in the first place??  If that story is real, then he literally drowned babies, mommies, dads, etc. 

Are you sure this first story is from the TRUE father??

unless we spiritualize it, and refer to the "world" as our carnal mind, that has to die; then God is pretty sadistic in the flood scene. 

Zeek--


"a jealous" [God]

H7067
קנּא
qannâ'
kan-naw'
From H7065; jealous: - jealous. Compare H7072.



H7065
קנא
qânâ'
kaw-naw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) zealous, that is, (in a bad sense) jealous or envious: -  (be) envy (-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous (-y), X very, (be) zeal (-ous).


Main Entry: zealous  
Pronunciation:   \ ˈze-ləs  \
Function:  adjective
Date:  1526
Results
1526 filled with or characterized by zeal : marked by fervent partisanship for a person, a cause, or an ideal - zealous missionaries


Numbers 25:13
And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.




zealous
H7065
קנא
qânâ'
kaw-naw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) zealous, that is, (in a bad sense) jealous or envious: -  (be) envy (-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous (-y), X very, (be) zeal (-ous).

and maybe, I don't know... maybe you guys and I are all saying essentially the same thing. But the reason I had to say something was because looking at the OP from an outsiders point of view... (even IF we are basically saying similar things) all I could see in the OP was the angry god in the sky throwing down lightning bolts. That's why I had to step in and post what I saw...

that's all.

I seriously am searching here, seeing "both" sides.

Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5, divinely killed), and a Herod (Acts 12, eaten by worms for taking glory rather than giving it to God) -- these were acts obviously (to me) not "done to themselves".  God did it, actively, not passively/"hands off because we chose this path so this is the consequence"...He DID it.

So, on one hand, I see the New Covenant "Happy God", reconciling man to Himself.  On the other, I see things like the above instances.  Maybe pre-70 A.D. had something to do with that...a special (sorry to those that have coniptions over the word) dispensation leading to the end of the age of temple worship and now worship in Spirit and in truth?  I don't know, and I also don't know that God's only throwing parties now vs. still to display some of His divine wrath upon children of disobedience.  :dontknow:

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 05:52:31 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:28:05 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 05:24:12 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:14:32 AM

But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

I don't identify with the OT god of wrath.
I trust in Christ and His teachings. I don't know what else to say.
This is my path and I'm just sharing what's in my heart.

And I trust and thank God for your heart, as it is my heart too.  But; the new testament is full of messages of a coming wrath.  It's not just the old testament.   

My question that I asked you is the question I am going through.  How do I reconcile this?   

The way I reconcile it is seeing it the way I described in the fire scenario.
Non-love (and it's ways, shapes and forms) leads to misery.

God is LOVE.

God is not FORCING anyone down the path of non-love.
We walk there ourselves and we walk individually, and we walk there as a whole.

Individually, when we walk down the path of non-love, we feel the "judgement". the consequences.

As a WHOLE.... we will feel the "judgement". the consequences.

This is how we LEARN. By the contrast of love and non-love.

Love leads to life...
Non-love leads to death...
figuratively and literally.


As a whole, (as a nation or what have you) the judgements will be felt.
But it isn't God forcing us down this path.
We are walking down this path on our own.

Go back and read my fire scenario again...
This is what I'm talking about.

The more we share the LOVE of God with others...
there are going to be less people walking down that path that leads to death (judgement.)
Judgements are felt 24/7 365 days a year. This is what this life IS.
LEARNING.

But the idea that God is shaking His fist at us and is up in the sky throwing down lightning bolts is what I'm hearing people are saying. That's a wrong picture, in my opinion.

We need to share the LOVE of God more than anything.

People are looking in all the wrong places and that is why they go down the destructive paths they go down. We need to point them towards our Loving Father. NOT the same old angry, god in the sky shaking His fist that they hear about from every Pastor, Preacher and Minister out there in the WORLD.

We ARE in the "tent".
So let's start ACTING like it.



That's all I was trying to get across....

I appreciate your message, which to me implies (correct me if i'm wrong) that we are all "children" of the Father, going thriough his chastisement here and now.

But in Hebrews, it says chastisement is for his "sons", whom HE RECEIVETH, and not for "bastards".  

And we know that "sons" are those who are given faith; as per Galatians.

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 06:05:19 AM

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 05:51:13 AM
Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

But why would our Abba deluge the world in the first place??  If that story is real, then he literally drowned babies, mommies, dads, etc. 

Are you sure this first story is from the TRUE father??

unless we spiritualize it, and refer to the "world" as our carnal mind, that has to die; then God is pretty sadistic in the flood scene. 

Because humanity was polluted beyond salvation--the thoughts of their hearts were continually evil.

Quote from: Molly on July 25, 2009, 06:09:23 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 06:05:19 AM

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 05:51:13 AM
Father will never deluge the world again with drowning waters.
Even the first time he presented an ark of refuge.
Now we have another refuge, Himself, for those that dwell within.
But, this time it's more about the dove that found land.
A place for the Spirit to reside.
It's about a flood of love, love, love.
And the general population hates it, because it is anti-self.
No fashion, No cosmetic surgery, No horror movies, No fuel-efficient cars better for the world.
It presents a mirror of the ludicrous they find themselves in and convulse in their own reflection.

But why would our Abba deluge the world in the first place??  If that story is real, then he literally drowned babies, mommies, dads, etc. 

Are you sure this first story is from the TRUE father??

unless we spiritualize it, and refer to the "world" as our carnal mind, that has to die; then God is pretty sadistic in the flood scene. 

Because humanity was polluted beyond salvation--the thoughts of their hearts were continually evil.

Well, for now; I reject your belief.  But who knows, I've gone in circle after circle in my beliefs.   :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 06:07:37 AM
I appreciate your message, which to me implies (correct me if i'm wrong) that we are all "children" of the Father, going thriough his chastisement here and now.

But in Hebrews, it says chastisement is for his "sons", whom HE RECEIVETH, and not for "bastards".  

And we know that "sons" are those who are given faith; as per Galatians.

No, you're not wrong in your assessment of what I'm saying.

I do believe that we ALL go through chastisement. ALL of us. Whether we realize it or not.
Otherwise no-one would learn anything.

"judgements" (or the consequences, the aftermath of non-love) is felt througout the world, all day long every day. It trickles down.

For instance, people abuse the earth, the earth becomes diseased, people become ill.
John Smith didn't do anything WRONG to get the illness... but mankind as a WHOLE abused the earth and now the aftermath is trickling down to individuals.

That is why I say we are judged individually AND As a whole.
The judgement is the consequence of what is NON-LOVE.

Evil (non-love) is on the path of destruction.
It is on the long, meandering, path of being DESTROYED.

Thank God!

That's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

We are learning the power of LOVE.

God doesn't harm us.
We harm OURSELVES and our fellow brothers and sisters when we shun the path of love.

Everything trickles down.

QuoteWell, for now; I reject your belief.

What belief are you rejecting? lol  I'm just telling you what I read in the Bible.  It repented God that he made man on the earth because--


...every imagination of the thoughts of [man's] heart was only evil continually.

--Gen 6

QuoteThat's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

You know, when my heart's being ripped out of my chest by the evil I am witnessing, it's hard to think of it as a schoolyard, Sparrow.

*Mod hat on*
Just a reminder that (per the owner of tentmaker (Gary Amirault's) wishes) we have reserved the right to not allow discussion of  the validity/invalidity of the scriptures which would include discussing the notion that the 'OT God' is not the 'real God'.

So, let's discuss - but since Jesus Himself validated the OT we need to keep it on the subject of how we interpret what was written, not whether it is all of God or not. The reason for this rule is that tentmaker exists primarily to show and discuss the scripturalness of universal reconciliation.  :thumbsup:

There are other websites for 'no holds barred' discussions on these other questions.

*Mod hat off*

:bigGrin:

Now, they're are a people, Sons if you will, that only live for the expression of Him.
And they sing...       
   www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NN9hX61vhg&feature=related

Quote from: Molly on July 25, 2009, 06:21:01 AM

QuoteThat's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

You know, when my heart's being ripped out of my chest by the evil I am witnessing, it's hard to think of it as a schoolyard, Sparrow.

I understand your heart, Molly. I think you are a beautiful person and I love you to pieces.

I am aware of the evil.
I have witnessed the trickling down consequences of the evil (non-love) in this world in my own family while I stood by and could do nothing while my own mother was basically being tortured.

I still see it as a schoolyard.
which is sometimes extremely brutal.
but still a schoolyard.
Trust me, my heart breaks daily...
but I also look to Him as strength.
The hope.
The Love.

It makes wanting to spread the fact of His love for us that much more REAL and PRESSING.

We're here to learn.

OH ! THE WONDER OF GOD !

Quote from: Molly on July 25, 2009, 06:21:01 AM

QuoteThat's just how I see this world.
Just one massive schoolyard.

You know, when my heart's being ripped out of my chest by the evil I am witnessing, it's hard to think of it as a schoolyard, Sparrow.

I hear ya' Molly. I often lay awake at night, being somewhat of an empath (which seems to be a blessing/curse).
That's one reason I believe that we need to show what the true heart of God is - not the God who is anti-people but the God who is anti-oppression, anti-lying, anti-hate, anti-darkness, anti-sin etc etc.

Jesus reveals the (once hidden) heart of the Father and so if it's not consistent with Jesus' words or actions while among us, then it's not consistent with the Father's nature.

I wish I had more time to show the sovereignty of God's salvation and how the complete transformation of the world will take place - it is in scripture, but it's a mystery as it SEEMS contradictory to other scriptures. That's what's hard about these conversations.

Quote from: Molly on July 25, 2009, 06:18:30 AM

QuoteWell, for now; I reject your belief.

What belief are you rejecting? lol  I'm just telling you what I read in the Bible.  It repented God that he made man on the earth because--


...every imagination of the thoughts of [man's] heart was only evil continually.

--Gen 6

I'll rephrase.  I don't know if I believe that those scriptures reflect the TRUE FATHER.   

Not that I don't wish and need to better understand this and many topics, but "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."  II Timothy 3:16,17

Quote from: firstborn888 on July 25, 2009, 06:21:09 AM
*Mod hat on*
Just a reminder that (per the owner of tentmaker (Gary Amirault's) wishes) we have reserved the right to not allow discussion of  the validity/invalidity of the scriptures which would include discussing the notion that the 'OT God' is not the 'real God'.

So, let's discuss - but since Jesus Himself validated the OT we need to keep it on the subject of how we interpret what was written, not whether it is all of God or not. The reason for this rule is that tentmaker exists primarily to show and discuss the scripturalness of universal reconciliation.  :thumbsup:

There are other websites for 'no holds barred' discussions on these other questions.

*Mod hat off*

:bigGrin:

ok.  I'll drop out of the thread.
 

:)

So (the above scripture) being the case, IMO, the problem is my/our understanding, hearts, and minds.

In other words, we don't get it  :happygrin:.

ZEEK!
From Genesis to the Revelation occurs between your two ears.
Eat from the tree of Life, Jesus!
and sing!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NN9hX61vhg&feature=related

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 06:40:51 AM
ZEEK!
From Genesis to the Revelation occurs between your two ears.
Eat from the tree of Life, Jesus!
and sing!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NN9hX61vhg&feature=related

one last question then, "so do you see the entire bible as allegorical", and not any literal??

ZEEK!
It's PERSONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 06:46:51 AM
ZEEK!
It's PERSONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

got cha. 

are you sure ???

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 06:48:42 AM
are you sure ???

I'm sure that your sure.  :)))) 

I'm sure that HE IS LOVE. 

Faith is the believing in things unseen.
Faith is an unseen gift of the Father.
Believe in faith and you believe in Him.
Then fasten your seatbelt.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 06:54:13 AM
Faith is the believing in things unseen.
Faith is an unseen gift of the Father.
Believe in faith and you believe in Him.
Then fasten your seatbelt.

So is receiving the "end" of your faith; the salvation of your soul

possible while we literally in these "flesh suits/humans"?

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 06:59:47 AM

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 25, 2009, 06:54:13 AM
Faith is the believing in things unseen.
Faith is an unseen gift of the Father.
Believe in faith and you believe in Him.
Then fasten your seatbelt.

So is receiving the "end" of your faith; the salvation of your soul

possible while we literally in these "flesh suits/humans"?

The way I see it God is after the lost sheep within people - the hidden man of the heart. In times past this mystery was hidden - but now is coming into open view.  The law and it's reward/wrath system was powerless to change us because of the weakness of the flesh. Now our spirits are reborn into God's image - not by wrath but by love. The trouble we bring upon ourselves I guess in one way could be seen as "God's wrath" but the important thing is to see what's happening on the deepest level - beyond the surface. Jesus has come to "seek and save" lost sheep - not to destroy them. I see he wrath being against the world systems (including religious systems) which bind and afflict humanity.

Possibly?
That IS MY HOPE FAITH AND LOVE


lol

I aint changin my suit, just dying it white.

Quote from: firstborn888 on July 25, 2009, 07:09:41 AM

The way I see it God is after the lost sheep within people - the hidden man of the heart. In times past this mystery was hidden - but now is coming into open view.  The law and it's reward/wrath system was powerless to change us because of the weakness of the flesh. Now our spirits are reborn into God's image - not by wrath but by love. The trouble we bring upon ourselves I guess in one way could be seen as "God's wrath" but the important thing is to see what's happening on the deepest level - beyond the surface. Jesus has come to "seek and save" lost sheep - not to destroy them. I see he wrath being against the world systems (including religious systems) which bind and afflict humanity.

This is pretty much how I see it.
I may not always be able to express myself properly..
but essentially, this is really what I was trying to say.

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:14:32 AM
But, how do you reconcile your beautiful message, compared to the dual message (angry/wrathful God and God of Love) in the bible??  

just throw out the verses that speak of God's anger and wrath??  

Spiritualize it all and make the bible a perosonification of the "duality of mind"?

??  

The difficulty of the old testament language is the insistance that it is a literal depiction of an God angry like a man, because men have interpreted it too much in the flesh.

What's wrong is this image that God is justified in cold blooded murder just because some religious folk say  "who are we?"

Well, you know who we are?   We are Gods children, who can understand who the father is.   But people paint this picture of God who might as well hate everything and then conveniently excuse that with such religious catch phrases as "his ways are not our ways"

Really?  They are not?  OMG, people want to wipe others out all the time because they do not measure up, so INDEED, his ways are not our ways, so that depiction is blatently WRONG.



People are in the world spiritually dead because religion decided to make a sociopathic murderer righteous.  That's not what the bible says at all. Oh, well God decided to wipe out people he created as if, whoops,  screwed that one up,  poooof   bye bye, I'm God, I'm done playing I'm going to crush my toys and go home.

Can God be any more human?

The old testament is a beautiful story of Love,  it take the literal crap of the earth and paints the tapestry like no human painter could imagine.  It shows a God who decided to create us knowing that there was no way that He could even change what we would exerience in order to know what he knows to be like him.   

He knows in the end that what God could not change will bring us the understanding of the wonderful gift of life he bestows.

The angry God appears to take retribution upon his creation because that is indeed what our hearts deep down would like to do.  But what it is telling us is promise.

God inspired the writers of the day to take literal events and show what God was going to do in our hearts.

God did not flood actual people because he was sick of them. 

He flooded an entire world of evil in my heart so that what was left was the lone family of God.  I personally went from a 16 year old kid who actually attempted murder to someone who felt sad in his soul watching a little frog get run over and I couldn't stop it.

Nothing short of a miracle will explain that.   

T is for transparency or trillions
A is for the arbitrage so true
R is for the roguish guess of billions
P is for the public, not a clue

Put them all together and they spell

"tarp"
verb
To cover something with a tarpaulin.


Watchdog sees huge U.S. bill for banks bailout
Financial bailout's cost to U.S. could total almost $24 trillion

WASHINGTON - The federal government has devoted $4.7 trillion to help the financial sector through its crisis, a watchdog report said Monday.

Under the worst of circumstances, the report said, the government's maximum exposure could total nearly $24 trillion, or $80,000 for every American.

The figures are part of a tough new quarterly report to Congress from special inspector general Neil Barofsky, who accuses the Treasury Department of repeatedly failing to adopt recommendations aimed at making one component of the government financial rescue effort more accountable and transparent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010841/ns/business-us_business/

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 25, 2009, 08:35:23 AM


He flooded an entire world of evil in my heart so that what was left was the lone family of God.  I personally went from a 16 year old kid who actually attempted murder to someone who felt sad in his soul watching a little frog get run over and I couldn't stop it.

Nothing short of a miracle will explain that.   

Wow!

Quote from: firstborn888 on July 25, 2009, 09:04:11 AM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 25, 2009, 08:35:23 AM


He flooded an entire world of evil in my heart so that what was left was the lone family of God.  I personally went from a 16 year old kid who actually attempted murder to someone who felt sad in his soul watching a little frog get run over and I couldn't stop it.

Nothing short of a miracle will explain that.   

Wow!

I literally just said that same word out loud after I read that.
That post is like a beacon of light on this thread.
It really is.
Thank you Paul.

Hi Paul.  I do really like that part too.

Please explain for the simple-minded (me) what you mean by this;  "People are in the world spiritually dead because religion decided to make a sociopathic murderer righteous."

Thanks, James.

 :cloud9: Double WOW, Paul.........God is good. Blessings....

Quote from: jabcat on July 25, 2009, 09:33:02 AM
Hi Paul.  I do really like that part too.

Please explain for the simple-minded (me) what you mean by this;  "People are in the world spiritually dead because religion decided to make a sociopathic murderer righteous."

Thanks, James.

However it came about religion has God justified in doing things that man does where the only real difference is that he is more powerful than everyone so who can do anything about it in the first place.

I see all kinds of things and arguments and debates on how God is ok because "He's God" when there is no real justification in our minds deep down.  Even universalists are consigned to it often because, well, he can do all that stuff because he is going to save everyone anyway.

I'm just not buying that literal picture any more.    It's like this. 

I have power over you so I beat you to death just because I can (if I am "all" powerful, then I didn't really have to do that, but I tell you it's for a good reason), then I nurse you back to health, eventually you may come to realize that your never going to beat me, so , you just accept it, but you will not really have any love.


It's really a left over remnant of ET or even annihilation teaching that has allowed me to see an even more wonderful picture of God.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 25, 2009, 04:50:41 PM

Quote from: jabcat on July 25, 2009, 09:33:02 AM
Hi Paul.  I do really like that part too.

Please explain for the simple-minded (me) what you mean by this;  "People are in the world spiritually dead because religion decided to make a sociopathic murderer righteous."

Thanks, James.

However it came about religion has God justified in doing things that man does where the only real difference is that he is more powerful than everyone so who can do anything about it in the first place.

I see all kinds of things and arguments and debates on how God is ok because "He's God" when there is no real justification in our minds deep down.  Even universalists are consigned to it often because, well, he can do all that stuff because he is going to save everyone anyway.

I'm just not buying that literal picture any more.    It's like this. 

I have power over you so I beat you to death just because I can (if I am "all" powerful, then I didn't really have to do that, but I tell you it's for a good reason), then I nurse you back to health, eventually you may come to realize that your never going to beat me, so , you just accept it, but you will not really have any love.


It's really a left over remnant of ET or even annihilation teaching that has allowed me to see an even more wonderful picture of God.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote..that has allowed me to see an even more wonderful picture of God.

I was raised on that God, and I probably had more OT exposure as a child than the average Christian.

But, I knew this wonderful God from my earliest memories.  This is what I was taught.

It really disturbs me when I hear the stories about how God was presented to people as children on here.

It's almost like satan has taken over the church.

Thanks both...it's part of what I'm considering.  Big topic.

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 05:06:01 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 25, 2009, 04:50:41 PM

Quote from: jabcat on July 25, 2009, 09:33:02 AM
Hi Paul.  I do really like that part too.

Please explain for the simple-minded (me) what you mean by this;  "People are in the world spiritually dead because religion decided to make a sociopathic murderer righteous."

Thanks, James.

However it came about religion has God justified in doing things that man does where the only real difference is that he is more powerful than everyone so who can do anything about it in the first place.

I see all kinds of things and arguments and debates on how God is ok because "He's God" when there is no real justification in our minds deep down.  Even universalists are consigned to it often because, well, he can do all that stuff because he is going to save everyone anyway.

I'm just not buying that literal picture any more.    It's like this. 

I have power over you so I beat you to death just because I can (if I am "all" powerful, then I didn't really have to do that, but I tell you it's for a good reason), then I nurse you back to health, eventually you may come to realize that your never going to beat me, so , you just accept it, but you will not really have any love.


It's really a left over remnant of ET or even annihilation teaching that has allowed me to see an even more wonderful picture of God.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 10:54:46 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 25, 2009, 04:50:41 PM
I have power over you so I beat you to death just because I can (if I am "all" powerful, then I didn't really have to do that, but I tell you it's for a good reason), then I nurse you back to health, eventually you may come to realize that your never going to beat me, so , you just accept it, but you will not really have any love.

It's really a left over remnant of ET or even annihilation teaching that has allowed me to see an even more wonderful picture of God.

:thumbsup:

Only one  :thumbsup: sparrow. They are for free...

Paul it's not that I disagree. I sorta agree but still I have some sort of fight/doubt inside myself about it.
I think it's correct to say Jesus warned about punishment. Ok, it wasn't about lava pit but it wasn't about hitting you once with a cotton pad neither. So I'm looking for a balance. God is love etc. But denying punishment of some sort isn't scriputal either.
Right now, for me, it's a paradox.

Who is saying that God is an angry violent God because he will judge? Who are we to say what methods God will or will not use?

The God of the OT is still the God of today he does not change whether it fits our 'idea' of him or not.

Everything he allows is for his purposes and should be seen through that and through his 'merciful' eyes.

It is actually out of his Love and Mercy that he sends judgment, it is actually for our good that he shakes us out of our slumber and for his Glory.

I still will continue to say he will allow whatever methods he chooses. I personally believe that the Lake of Fire will be far worse than going through these light afflictions here in this world on earth.

I would prefer the judgment of God that way any day. I believe the Lord would PREFER people repent NOW than having to later when that is a much more severe judgment in the Lake.

It is a matter of how you view God and perspective of that he allows.

Why has he allowed sin to run rampant in the word and allow all the chaos and hell we face now and Adam and Eve to do something that would first of all bring all this we face now upon us?

The way I see God now differs totally than how I see him just a few years ago. It started with UR and understanding his love for mankind and it went on from there.

I went through the phase where God would show me all the wonderful things he has planned , and there are some glorious things that will take place. But, he has also shown me the path to getting there, the maturing in him we must do to be able to walk in certain things and understand certain things.

I refuse to take back anything I have said.

It is a matter of seeing God as he "is" and understanding his ways and thoughts are not ours and not as how we want to make God be.

He is a mystery. We can only taste of his Glory and get a glimpse of his Glory and who he is on this passing earth. This is not our home and we should not be so in love with it that we believe God would not do anything to destroy it for his own purposes and to bring fallen sinners to himself and provoke us who are in him to maturity in Christ. Our high calling is to become sons of God shaped into the spotless image of Jesus Christ and it must be accomplished in this life and the tribulations we face...This is also the Baptism of Fire. It does not start in the Lake of Fire.

To believe otherwise is an inconsistency with believing he judges one in the Lake of Fire for their sins, yet not here on earth in what he has shown me is not near as 'severe' as the Lake will be.

Hey White Wings... I know what you mean..
I agree with you actually...
But.. I'll be back later tonight to explain what I mean, gotta run.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:48:10 PM

It is a matter of seeing God as he "is" and understanding his ways and thoughts are not ours and not as how we want to make God be.

But we have "the mind of Christ"

willieH: Hi SPOKENFOR!  :hithere:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 22, 2009, 09:49:15 AM
I know many on here do not believe that anything is going to happen in the near future in America. But, I am feeling lead to sound and alarm to those who are reading and may not believe.

I believe this country is going to go through a serious shaking of God really soon.

We are going to be in serious civil unrest in this country.

Major cities are going to be destroyed and burning and much more...much more..

I pray that many of you ask the Lord to show you the serious of the hour and to the discern the times in which we are living.

God has been showing me a lot of things lately and giving many many confirmations.

I am not able to sleep on a regular sleeping pattern anymore, it has been a while as God is dealing with almost non-stop to speak out to people.

Many are going to be caught off guard because they do not believe anything like this could happen here in America. But, I believe we are sooo close to the coming of the Lord I can't put into words.

The Lord is saying we do not have YEARS anymore to play church and play around. We do not have YEARS anymore before he removes the hedge from around this country.

I pray that you all begin to discern the times, because unfortunately the majority of the church is asleep right now, when they should be awake.

Yes, Judgment is on the way to this country and it is at the door.

I percieve your motive as sincere SPOKENFOR... but this is a "FEAR" trip as I see it... there is no REST in this dear sister...

I believe it is our job as the followers of CHRIST, to preach of His PEACE which shall calm ANY storm. :nod:

What shall be within GOD's ORDAINED movements upon the Earth, shall BE... and it is up to us to TRUST Him concerning our part, and/or involvement within the consumation of TIME... finding PEACE amidst the storms.

Be about your Father's business sis... which is to witness of His Son and of the Salvation of ALL... spreading COMFORT amongst the chaos of the "storms" which temporarily present themselves... to us.

:Peace:

Quote from: willieH on July 25, 2009, 11:55:18 PM
willieH: Hi SPOKENFOR!  :hithere:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 22, 2009, 09:49:15 AM
I know many on here do not believe that anything is going to happen in the near future in America. But, I am feeling lead to sound and alarm to those who are reading and may not believe.

I believe this country is going to go through a serious shaking of God really soon.

We are going to be in serious civil unrest in this country.

Major cities are going to be destroyed and burning and much more...much more..

I pray that many of you ask the Lord to show you the serious of the hour and to the discern the times in which we are living.

God has been showing me a lot of things lately and giving many many confirmations.

I am not able to sleep on a regular sleeping pattern anymore, it has been a while as God is dealing with almost non-stop to speak out to people.

Many are going to be caught off guard because they do not believe anything like this could happen here in America. But, I believe we are sooo close to the coming of the Lord I can't put into words.

The Lord is saying we do not have YEARS anymore to play church and play around. We do not have YEARS anymore before he removes the hedge from around this country.

I pray that you all begin to discern the times, because unfortunately the majority of the church is asleep right now, when they should be awake.

Yes, Judgment is on the way to this country and it is at the door.

I percieve your motive as sincere SPOKENFOR... but this is a "FEAR" trip as I see it... there is no REST in this dear sister...

I believe it is our job as the followers of CHRIST, to preach of His PEACE which shall calm ANY storm. :nod:

What shall be within GOD's ORDAINED movements upon the Earth, shall BE... and it is up to us to TRUST Him concerning our part, and/or involvement within the consumation of TIME... finding PEACE amidst the storms.

Be about your Father's business sis... which is to witness of His Son and of the Salvation of ALL... spreading COMFORT amongst the chaos of the "storms" which temporarily present themselves... to us.

:Peace:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

I am sorry but if you have any fear then you are not walking in Perfect Love. There is no fear when you are walking in the Love of God.

If it scares some, then maybe God has a purpose in that too. Shouldn't the Lake of Fire scare people too. Who wants to go to the Lake?

We can talk about that all day long about the Lake of Fire and supposedly that has 'no fear' attached to it, but judgment that will cause you to lose your love of the world and cling closer to God does?

Sorry, I am not buying it.

I have been through that phase and I have another insight to it all.

I preach Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and there is where the Peace is.  The Hope is in Christ, the ARK of Safety.

I will not preach Peace in a sense that there is no trouble, I will preach getting the Peace of Christ that surpasses all understanding.

I will not preach God does not allow pain and sorrow and even destruction.

Jesus said it, The Bible is full of what this earth will come to one day, and that is what he telling me to preach.

I Preach Jesus Christ the Hope of Glory is the answer, your hope and peace,  And he wants you to know him now and be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Not every Christian has the mind of Christ. Having the mind of Christ comes over time and with maturing. It is not some automatic act that happens. It is through these life and fiery trials we are burnt up and set on fire that God is able to burn all that is not like him off until we become what he has desired of us.

That is what I preach.

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 11:53:27 PM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:48:10 PM

It is a matter of seeing God as he "is" and understanding his ways and thoughts are not ours and not as how we want to make God be.

But we have "the mind of Christ"

Not, not all do dear. Not all do.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 12:08:41 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 11:53:27 PM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:48:10 PM

It is a matter of seeing God as he "is" and understanding his ways and thoughts are not ours and not as how we want to make God be.

But we have "the mind of Christ"

Not, not all do dear. Not all do.

agreed.  IMO, the god of the old testament, is not ABBA. 

Quote from: Zeek on July 26, 2009, 12:11:04 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 12:08:41 AM

Quote from: Zeek on July 25, 2009, 11:53:27 PM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:48:10 PM

It is a matter of seeing God as he "is" and understanding his ways and thoughts are not ours and not as how we want to make God be.

But we have "the mind of Christ"

Not, not all do dear. Not all do.

agreed.  IMO, the god of the old testament, is not ABBA. 

Ok, you a right to your opinion of what you believe about God. You really do. You have right to be where you are right now spiritually, but just know that God is ALWAYS calling us higher.

Never think that you are at a place where there is nothing more you can learn or know or even grow in God.

Who is this?  The OT God?  Or the NT God?



11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

--Rev 19

So, to sum it up for now.

We need to get back to the teachings and understanding the parables of Christ. That is one thing that is lacking especially here in the Western world where we associate 'comfort' and 'peace' in this world with our Christianity.

We are so far from God and in the world and carnal that we can't see how carnal we are.

I don't know why Christians especially here think that God is concerned with how much comfort they have, when the followers of Christ long before us suffered much more than we did, when there are people in other parts of the world who live far much worse  than we do and suffer serious persecution and live in an uncomfortable way we have never known here.

We need to get back to what it means to be a follower of Christ.

We need to get back to why God created us and to understand the purpose he has for us will prevail.

We need to get back to understanding the teaching of the Apostles.

We need a wake up call and a severe one that will provoke us to lose a love of having too much that in many cases cause one to lose the love of their first love..It can also cause one to never grow up into the things of God and where God would have us to be in him spiritually in him.

God has shown me how that when people have less and are far less comfortable they become much more passionate and serious about him, for they have only HIM to truly get to know and then that is where he can totally become important.

He has allowed me to go through a bit of this myself personally, so I speak from the lessons he has taught me in my own life and how he as paralled them with Christ teachings and what many other who are far less comfortable with 'stuff' experience.

He had to break me down to nothing. I have been living out of 1 duffel bag for the past three years. I travel as God leads me, he provides the money and everything I need. I have not had a job in 3 years, he pulled me out of what I call the 'system' to show me some powerful things through all these experiences. I move from place to place depending on him to provide me with the very food I eat. I have been wearing some of the same clothes for the past three years over and over and over and for some reason they don't seem to be getting old..

I use to work, had my own apt and everything. This is where God began to do a deeper work in me, and he also began to to take me to another level of faith and knowing him. I did not realize when I told him years ago to use me as he saw fit and to get so much Glory out of my life and to use me to save and set free millions of people. I did not know the process he would take me through. I did not know it first came with a breaking and tearing and removing from me ALL I loved as far as 'comforts'. Who does not like their own 'space' and living quarters. There own job and finances that you know are coming in.

He has taken me through some things he showed me would kill the average Christian in this country. He has used many experiences to show me how to learn to walk by faith and depend on him for my every need without the assistance of knowing where ANY of it is coming from.

He has taken me through these experiences to show me what he is after in the end. He has taken me through these experiences to strip ME OF ME, SELF..To deny and kill this flesh and all of its soulish cravings and loves of this world.

He showed me through these experiences what it was like for Jesus. He had no home of his own, he was a wandered on earth and traveled ministrering to people and doing only what the Father told him. He was rejected and scorn and looked down upon. Just as I have been. People say, "You don't have to live like this".But, that is because they do not understand the ways of God and plans he has for MY LIFE. He is not going to mature everybody at the same time. Some of us he has to send before them so that we can reach back and then be used of God to help others.

There is much more I could say, for I have truly been experiencing for awesome things of God and ways of God, but the price I have had to pay did seem extreme to me at first...But, then he had to show me some serious powerful life changing things.

He told me I am experiencing what many will experience in the days ahead when they are not longer with the comforts they once had. When things will be less, much less...and because of my own experiences I will be able to go through these things with much more ease than some may. Because of my own experiences I will be able to help those who will need to 'understand' what is happening and the ways of God and what is  trying to accomplish..

One thing I am sure of, is my call of God..and I can not and will not shut up when he tells me to speak of.

He is calling for maturity in Christ.

Christ was not spared.

The saints of Old were not spared.

Saints today are not spared.

What make you think you will be spared of hard times where you will learn a dependence on God you have not known.

What makes you think that God has not predestined that you enter into the Kingdom of God through much tribulation.

What makes one think because he is in the end going to ultimately save all of us, there is not a Baptism of Fire we must endure right here on earth as many other saints?

If you don't think so, you have been deceived and the great apostaty of the faith is coming when many will fall away from God because they will not want to endure. IT is because they did not build their house of the Solid Rock of Christ.

I know what I am preaching, I haved lived it and am living it.

When the day comes and you may be walking around in total disillusionment, I promise you you will want a word from God and may not be able to find one.

It is tight, but it is right Church. The time is now to ask God to allow you to discern the times. It is what it is, and God is not going to be mocked. He has a plan and either we are going to get with his plan, or our plan and be ignorant and deceived in the end.

willieH: Hi SPOKENFOR...  :cloud9:

Mark 3:24 -- And if a house be DIVIDED against itself, that house CANNOT STAND.

If the "GOSPEL" we present brings both GOOD and BAD news... it is in essence:  a house divided against itself...  :sigh:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PM
I am sorry but if you have any fear then you are not walking in Perfect Love. There is no fear when you are walking in the Love of God.

If it scares some, then maybe God has a purpose in that too. Shouldn't the Lake of Fire scare people too. Who wants to go to the Lake?

No...  If the GOSPEL is PEACE -- Rom 10:15 - Eph 6:15 -- and GOD is PEACE -- Heb 13:20 - 1 Cor 14:33 --  and there is NO FEAR in LOVE -- 1 John 4:18 -- then what place has HORROR and FEAR in our preaching?

THIS is the "Lake of FIRE", sister SPOKENFOR!  You are IN it NOW!  It is ALL the sorrow and horror spoken of in the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, which MUST BE, as He is REVEALED!  

The "REVELATION" says:  

Rev 1:7 -- behold he cometh with clouds and EVERY EYE shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him; and ALL KINDREDS of the Earth shall WAIL ...BECAUSE of HIM.

No one shall escape WAILING because of Him, for ALL participate in this Lake of FIRE, which burns by DISEASE and all forms of DEATH and DESTRUCTION...

As CHRIST is REVEALED, all shall find mourning because of Him... YOU and I are "they which "pierced" Him SPOKENFOR!  He died and was "pierced" by MY SIN and by YOURS... and we DRINK of the cup of suffering in this life, for it is THAT which brings COMPLETION [perfection]!  -- Heb 2:10

In that suffering we live patiently and await the COMPLETION of DELIVERANCE from ALL THINGS which cause that suffering...  We are to do this in PEACE...

Read the letters written by Paul, and John and Peter, they predominantly START and END with the wishes of GRACE and PEACE!  And THAT is how our "preaching" should begin, and end as well...

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMWe can talk about that all day long about the Lake of Fire and supposedly that has 'no fear' attached to it, but judgment that will cause you to lose your love of the world and cling closer to God does?

"JUDGMENT" is not a BAD thing sister... it produces RIGHTEOUSNESS -- Isaiah 26:9

CHRIST said to "His followers" --

Matt 28:10 -- be NOT AFRAID: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there they shall see me...

THEN He said next:

Matt 28:18-20 -- ALL POWER is given unto Me in HEAVEN and IN EARTH... go ye THEREFORE [because ALL POWER was given unto Him] and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, ...TEACHING THEM whatsoever I have COMMANDED you, and lo I am with you ALWAYS, even unto the END of the world.

Where do you see FEAR in this sister?  And where did He COMMAND to teach FEAR?

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMSorry, I am not buying it.

I have been through that phase and I have another insight to it all.

I preach Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and there is where the Peace is.  The Hope is in Christ, the ARK of Safety.

I will not preach Peace in a sense that there is no trouble, I will preach getting the Peace of Christ that surpasses all understanding.

What "YOU preach" is your business... but if it is NOT PERMEATED with PEACE, then it is not of the GOSPEL... it is your message...

The GOSPEL is EXCLUSIVELY GOOD NEWS... look up the words EUAGGELIZO and EUAGGELION, which are translated GOSPEL in the NT... their definitions do NOT carry ANY "FEAR nor HORROR"...

Preach what you will... it is not on my agenda to change you in any way... but it IS on my agenda to help others from being MISLED.  And to encourage PEACE and the GOSPEL to be extended to the world.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMI will not preach God does not allow pain and sorrow and even destruction.

GOD does not "allow" pain, it is in our experience because it has a purpose, as does DESTRUCTION... that does not mean PAIN or DESTRUCTION should be our FOCUS...

We should be about focusing on the CURE, not the problem...  CHRIST was sent to HEAL... and focused upon HEALING, not upon the fact that PAIN was there, rather that it was part of His mission to bring PEACE [healing] to the turmoil presented by PAIN...

I am suffering from cancer sister... but I choose to focus upon the HEALING PEACE of CHRIST, instead of FEARING the disease.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMJesus said it, The Bible is full of what this earth will come to one day, and that is what he telling me to preach.

I Preach Jesus Christ the Hope of Glory is the answer, your hope and peace,  And he wants you to know him now and be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Nothing wrong with this... but the message does not need "FEAR" to be inserted amongst it.  Rather, in His stead... you as His follower should be about what He was about, ...bringing the GOOD NEWS that GOD so LOVED the WORLD...  :bgdance:

MAN is completely infatuated with BAD NEWS... turn on ANY news program, at ANY time... and watch to see if they shall bring ANY GOOD NEWS...

90% of their reports are primarily concerned with and focus upon -- WAR, MURDER, ARSON, RAPE, THIEVERY, SORROW, WORLD STRIFE, UNREST, DESTRUCTION...  :blahgreen: :blah:  :blahgreen:

If our message is filled with the SAME types of things, how are we different?  :dontknow:

However, if we preach only GOOD NEWS... to those who are used to hearing only BAD NEWS... then we are indeed DIFFERENT!  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMNot every Christian has the mind of Christ. Having the mind of Christ comes over time and with maturing. It is not some automatic act that happens. It is through these life and fiery trials we are burnt up and set on fire that God is able to burn all that is not like him off until we become what he has desired of us.

That is what I preach.

You are not presenting the PEACE of GOD by exclaiming "BRACE YOURSELVES",  ...nor by focusing on such NEGATIVITY, sister... you are echoing the sentiments of MEN which are focused on NEGATIVITY... and degenerating IN IT, daily...

Preaching CHRIST as Savior, and as a better way, and a FOCUS... does not include to WORRY about things, which you can do NOTHING about...

The world shall be devoured and PASS AWAY, but nothing you or I can do... can prevent that END, for it is WRITTEN it shall find its END -- Luke 21:33

I wish you --- :Peace: --- within yourself and within your message.

 :boyheart:
Sorry Willie I love ya, But I am not going to respond to that post and all the verses etc..I just posted a very long post and I am not going to debate what Love is, Peace, and Christ is... 

BTW, I walk in a peace not even YOU can understand.  :thumbsup:

willieH: Hi SPOKENFOR... :hithere:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 01:25:21 AM
:boyheart:
Sorry Willie I love ya, But I am not going to respond to that post and all the verses etc..I just posted a very long post and I am not going to debate what Love is, Peace, and Christ is... 

don't expect you to... I do not write just to the person I correspond with... I write with everyone in mind...

:Peace:

Quote from: willieH on July 26, 2009, 01:33:20 AM
willieH: Hi SPOKENFOR... :hithere:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 01:25:21 AM
:boyheart:
Sorry Willie I love ya, But I am not going to respond to that post and all the verses etc..I just posted a very long post and I am not going to debate what Love is, Peace, and Christ is... 

don't expect you to... I do not write just to the person I correspond with... I write with everyone in mind...

:Peace:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Oh ok...I understand that.

AND I have read your post and I totally understand what you are saying..I see your side and trust me..I have suffered from incurable diseases and much more all at the same time while having to live out of a bag the past three years.

What you can not see is the 'other' side of this.

Like I said, it was not meant to scare anybody, but I will not apologize for anything I said or how I said it whether it is misunderstood or not.

I say what I feel lead and God uses it for his purposes.

There is a time for everything. Right now, God is not telling me to preach that he is going to heal everybody. Brother, I have endured just as much as you and I have come to see another side of God. I know his love and I know his disciplines and trainings..and they all are out of his LOVE. I know his hand on my life and how I should be dead of HIV/AIDS right now. I know how he has cured me of incurable diseases and such. You are talking to someone who has been to hell and back too and I still stand here proclaiming that the Lord is good.

Sorry, everything is not 'mushy' sounding, that is not always reality and what he has 'me' saying at this moment and time.

Quote from: willieH on July 26, 2009, 01:22:58 AM
willieH: Hi SPOKENFOR...  :cloud9:

Mark 3:24 -- And if a house be DIVIDED against itself, that house CANNOT STAND.

If the "GOSPEL" we present brings both GOOD and BAD news... it is in essence:  a house divided against itself...  :sigh:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PM
I am sorry but if you have any fear then you are not walking in Perfect Love. There is no fear when you are walking in the Love of God.

If it scares some, then maybe God has a purpose in that too. Shouldn't the Lake of Fire scare people too. Who wants to go to the Lake?

No...  If the GOSPEL is PEACE -- Rom 10:15 - Eph 6:15 -- and GOD is PEACE -- Heb 13:20 - 1 Cor 14:33 --  and there is NO FEAR in LOVE -- 1 John 4:18 -- then what place has HORROR and FEAR in our preaching?

THIS is the "Lake of FIRE", sister SPOKENFOR!  You are IN it NOW!  It is ALL the sorrow and horror spoken of in the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, which MUST BE, as He is REVEALED!  

The "REVELATION" says:  

Rev 1:7 -- behold he cometh with clouds and EVERY EYE shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him; and ALL KINDREDS of the Earth shall WAIL ...BECAUSE of HIM.

No one shall escape WAILING because of Him, for ALL participate in this Lake of FIRE, which burns by DISEASE and all forms of DEATH and DESTRUCTION...

As CHRIST is REVEALED, all shall find mourning because of Him... YOU and I are "they which "pierced" Him SPOKENFOR!  He died and was "pierced" by MY SIN and by YOURS... and we DRINK of the cup of suffering in this life, for it is THAT which brings COMPLETION [perfection]!  -- Heb 2:10

In that suffering we live patiently and await the COMPLETION of DELIVERANCE from ALL THINGS which cause that suffering...  We are to do this in PEACE...

Read the letters written by Paul, and John and Peter, they predominantly START and END with the wishes of GRACE and PEACE!  And THAT is how our "preaching" should begin, and end as well...

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMWe can talk about that all day long about the Lake of Fire and supposedly that has 'no fear' attached to it, but judgment that will cause you to lose your love of the world and cling closer to God does?

"JUDGMENT" is not a BAD thing sister... it produces RIGHTEOUSNESS -- Isaiah 26:9

CHRIST said to "His followers" --

Matt 28:10 -- be NOT AFRAID: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there they shall see me...

THEN He said next:

Matt 28:18-20 -- ALL POWER is given unto Me in HEAVEN and IN EARTH... go ye THEREFORE [because ALL POWER was given unto Him] and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, ...TEACHING THEM whatsoever I have COMMANDED you, and lo I am with you ALWAYS, even unto the END of the world.

Where do you see FEAR in this sister?  And where did He COMMAND to teach FEAR?

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMSorry, I am not buying it.

I have been through that phase and I have another insight to it all.

I preach Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and there is where the Peace is.  The Hope is in Christ, the ARK of Safety.

I will not preach Peace in a sense that there is no trouble, I will preach getting the Peace of Christ that surpasses all understanding.

What "YOU preach" is your business... but if it is NOT PERMEATED with PEACE, then it is not of the GOSPEL... it is your message...

The GOSPEL is EXCLUSIVELY GOOD NEWS... look up the words EUAGGELIZO and EUAGGELION, which are translated GOSPEL in the NT... their definitions do NOT carry ANY "FEAR nor HORROR"...

Preach what you will... it is not on my agenda to change you in any way... but it IS on my agenda to help others from being MISLED.  And to encourage PEACE and the GOSPEL to be extended to the world.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMI will not preach God does not allow pain and sorrow and even destruction.

GOD does not "allow" pain, it is in our experience because it has a purpose, as does DESTRUCTION... that does not mean PAIN or DESTRUCTION should be our FOCUS...

We should be about focusing on the CURE, not the problem...  CHRIST was sent to HEAL... and focused upon HEALING, not upon the fact that PAIN was there, rather that it was part of His mission to bring PEACE [healing] to the turmoil presented by PAIN...

I am suffering from cancer sister... but I choose to focus upon the HEALING PEACE of CHRIST, instead of FEARING the disease.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMJesus said it, The Bible is full of what this earth will come to one day, and that is what he telling me to preach.

I Preach Jesus Christ the Hope of Glory is the answer, your hope and peace,  And he wants you to know him now and be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Nothing wrong with this... but the message does not need "FEAR" to be inserted amongst it.  Rather, in His stead... you as His follower should be about what He was about, ...bringing the GOOD NEWS that GOD so LOVED the WORLD...  :bgdance:

MAN is completely infatuated with BAD NEWS... turn on ANY news program, at ANY time... and watch to see if they shall bring ANY GOOD NEWS...

90% of their reports are primarily concerned with and focus upon -- WAR, MURDER, ARSON, RAPE, THIEVERY, SORROW, WORLD STRIFE, UNREST, DESTRUCTION...  :blahgreen: :blah:  :blahgreen:

If our message is filled with the SAME types of things, how are we different?  :dontknow:

However, if we preach only GOOD NEWS... to those who are used to hearing only BAD NEWS... then we are indeed DIFFERENT!  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 25, 2009, 11:59:44 PMNot every Christian has the mind of Christ. Having the mind of Christ comes over time and with maturing. It is not some automatic act that happens. It is through these life and fiery trials we are burnt up and set on fire that God is able to burn all that is not like him off until we become what he has desired of us.

That is what I preach.

You are not presenting the PEACE of GOD by exclaiming "BRACE YOURSELVES",  ...nor by focusing on such NEGATIVITY, sister... you are echoing the sentiments of MEN which are focused on NEGATIVITY... and degenerating IN IT, daily...

Preaching CHRIST as Savior, and as a better way, and a FOCUS... does not include to WORRY about things, which you can do NOTHING about...

The world shall be devoured and PASS AWAY, but nothing you or I can do... can prevent that END, for it is WRITTEN it shall find its END -- Luke 21:33

I wish you --- :Peace: --- within yourself and within your message.

...willieH  :cloud9:

Willie... You hit the nail on the head, brother.  :goodpost:

Perfect love casts out ALL fear.

ALL fear.


This world is a contrast of love and non-love.

We walk through this "lake of fire".
God is LOVE.

The judgements in this world IS the lake of fire, in my eyes.

We have two paths... the path of love and the path of non-love.
Didn't Jesus show us the path of ULTIMATE love?


God is NOT an angry God throwing down lightning bolts at his unruly children.
If you think that He is, then the picture you are painting is a false picture.

In God there is nothing BUT Safety and LOVE and PEACE.

It is turning away from God, turning AWAY from God that we see destruction, judgement, etc.

When we look TO GOD, we see LOVE, safety and peace.

That is the whole point of why I am so adamant about this subject! Because some are getting it completely BACKWARDS I think. (I say "I think" because I'm not entirely sure I am understanding their point of view, maybe we see it the same... but the perspectives are a little off.)

Anyhow... What Willie was saying is absolutely true. Please read his post again. and let the words sink in.


The judgements are here for us to LEARN. How else could we learn what is love and what ISN'T love??

We suffer these corrections to LEARN. We do it individually and on a whole.

Some diseases, for instance... it isn't necessarily the person's FAULT that they got a disease but it is because of what MANKIND As a WHOLE has done to God's CREATION. It's mankinds GREED, ABUSE, etc, that has caused nature to fight back, nature to malfunction, etc. causing disease. So why do good people have bad things happen to them? Because we are ALL in this together. The rain falls on the "good" and the "bad". If rain only fell on the bad, then we wouldn't learn anything.

It's going THROUGH a difficult  time, (like having a disease) and instead of thinking to yourself..."Why God are you doing this to me???" you think, "Yes, God... we are living in the lake of fire, we are feeling the effects of non-love.... I CLING to you God, because you are LOVE, you are my SAFETY, you are my PEACE!! I know there is a better world in store... I know that we are all  taking part in this "lake of fire" where mankind is learning... I cling to YOU because YOU Are my safety, my love, my peace..."


All the BAD things of this world have ONE root.... NON-LOVE.

God is LOVE.

The bad things do NOT COME FROM GOD.

They trickle down from NON-LOVE, in NON-LOVE's various ways, shapes and forms.

It is GOD who is LOVE.
It is GOD who we can TRUST.
It is GOD who we can LEAN ON.
It is GOD who we can FIND SAFETY.
It is GOD who we can find PEACE and REST.

This lake of fire... and all of it's pain and suffering... it all COMES FROM MAN turning AWAY from GOD. It is NOT God, looking at us and throwing down lightning bolts because He is angry and "reaching his boiling point" or what have you. It is the EXACT OPPOSITE. And that is the whole point, as far as I'm concerned.

GOD IS LOVE.
There is no fear in perfect love.

The calamaties are BUILT into this WORLD.
We are experiencing this world so that we can finally understand the POWER OF LOVE. THE POWER OF GOD.

People will say "well the bad things ARE from God because He has created everything" Yes, I understand that. But that goes back to God creating evil. Like I said earlier, the way I see it, evil (non-love) is like darkness. When you turn off a light in a room, darkness rushes in to fill the void. NON-LOVE is what is what there is when you turn AWAY FROM love (God). So the "bad things" are "created" by default. It's what rushes in.....
That is what the judgements are.

We feel the judgements 24/7, every day of the year... in small ways, in individual ways, and in big ways, on a MASS SCALE AS A WHOLE. We are ALL brothers and sisters... it all trickles down. We will one day see the WHOLE picture, and how utterly DESTRUCTIVE non-love is. Just how it permeates and affects ALL. Just as we will see the LOVE of God and how THAT permeates and affects ALL. When we finally see this GRAND PICTURE...  EVERY knee will bow and God will be ALL in ALL.


peace.. I hope this made sense.
It's very, VERY hard to put it into words.

This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

QuotePreaching CHRIST as Savior, and as a better way, and a FOCUS... does not include to WORRY about things, which you can do NOTHING about...

Who says we can do nothing about it?  We choose not to do anything about.  Satan tells us all day long we cannot do anything about it.

Babies are being killed in our name, and you say we cannot do anything about it?

I call this Christian passivity.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...
That clinging to God and His LOVE.
That "no matter what happens... I am SAFE in you, God..."


y'know? 

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

      Well,  we know that very terrible things are going to happen on this planet as this age draws to an end. I think much of it will be caused by people,  other than the specific judgments of God in Revelation for example.   There are many people now,  of very corrupt minds,  destitute of truth,  and who are filled with hatred for everyone outside their religion.  And they particularly hate Israel and America.   I would not be a bit surprised,  if America,  sadly,   comes under attack from these evil people in the very near future,  and it may very well involve wmd attacks.      Will God protect America from these monsters?  I don't know.

Quote from: fullarmor2 on July 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
     Well,  we know that very terrible things are going to happen on this planet as this age draws to an end. I think much of it will be caused by people,  other than the specific judgments of God in Revelation for example.   There are many people now,  of very corrupt minds,  destitute of truth,  and who are filled with hatred for everyone outside their religion.  And they particularly hate Israel and America.   I would not be a bit surprised,  if America,  sadly,   comes under attack from these evil people in the very near future,  and it may very well involve wmd attacks.      Will God protect America from these monsters?  I don't know.

I'm with ya on that one.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

I wasn't debating you.
I was merely giving my point of view.

:dontknow:

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

What do I have to hear right now to make me shout or praise God?

And you praise him "in spite of".. in spite of what?

Perhaps this will shed some light on what you are saying and we can understand each other.

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:29:20 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

I wasn't debating you.
I was merely giving my point of view.

:dontknow:

No problem and I am giving you my point of view. You acted as if only what he had to say warrants for a certain feeling right now. Maybe for you, but I did not have to read anything he said to feel like it.

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:31:03 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

What do I have to hear right now to make me shout or praise God?

And you praise him "in spite of".. in spite of what?

Perhaps this will shed some light on what you are saying and we can understand each other.

I don't know, you said it not me.

You are shouting for your own reasons, and I am for mine..

We all see something a little different, a little piece of our God.

I see health, wealth, and prosperity for the whole world and the duty of Christians to make that happen.

He is Life.  He is abundant Life, that is, Life beyond measure.

We could have this tomorrow, if people would just stop lying.

It's been in our grasp for over 100 years, in modern terms.

There are only a handful of men holding this back.

Pray that the Lord of the harvest send forth his angels into the harvest.


Luke 10:2
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.


"labourers'
G2040
ἐργάτης
ergatēs
er-gat'-ace
From G2041; a toiler; figuratively a teacher: - labourer, worker (-men).

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:31:56 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:29:20 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

I wasn't debating you.
I was merely giving my point of view.

:dontknow:

No problem and I am giving you my point of view. You acted as if only what he had to say warrants for a certain feeling right now. Maybe for you, but I did not have to read anything he said to feel like it.

Ok... now that last post was slightly skewed, SPOKENFOR.

I wasn't saying that I got that feeling ONLY AFTER what I read what Willie had to say.

What I was saying, is that Willie articulated, put into words the REASON why we have that feeling.

GOD is what brings forth that feeling. Willie just put it into words the reason WHY God brings forth that feeling.

Never mind Sparrow....Praise the Lord honey, do what you feel right now dear.

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:33:57 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:31:56 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:29:20 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

I wasn't debating you.
I was merely giving my point of view.

:dontknow:

No problem and I am giving you my point of view. You acted as if only what he had to say warrants for a certain feeling right now. Maybe for you, but I did not have to read anything he said to feel like it.

Ok... now that last post was slightly skewed, SPOKENFOR.

I wasn't saying that I got that feeling ONLY AFTER what I read what Willie had to say.

What I was saying, is that Willie articulated, put into words the REASON why we have that feeling.

GOD is what brings forth that feeling. Willie just put it into words the reason WHY God brings forth that feeling.

Ok, and that is a wonderful thing. Now, I am praising God for a different reason.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:32:45 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:31:03 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

What do I have to hear right now to make me shout or praise God?

And you praise him "in spite of".. in spite of what?

Perhaps this will shed some light on what you are saying and we can understand each other.

I don't know, you said it not me.

You are shouting for your own reasons, and I am for mine..

You are misunderstanding what I am saying, I think...

You said this:

"I have decided to praise him in spite of."


I am asking you... Why do you say "in spite of."

In spite of..what?


I'm just asking for clarification on your words.
Nothing more, nothing less...

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:34:06 AM
Never mind Sparrow....Praise the Lord honey, do what you feel right now dear.

Why nevermind?

I mean if you don't want to discuss anymore.. that's cool, I guess.

"Fear is the darkroom, where many develop their negatives."

peacemaker

Can we drop this, please?

Sparrow,

Please do not try to read into other peoples mind and judge their motives and intentions. You do not know where I am right now in my head and what I am thinking about to make me say I praise the Lord in spite of.

Does it matter what I mean by in spite of and why I am praising the Lord.

You are taking this to a place it does not need to be taken to, seriously.

Maybe I am just thinking about the Goodness of God in SPITE OF what I am going through right now in my own personal life.

Maybe I am just thinking about the Goodness of God in SPITE OF what is happening around me right now.

Maybe I am just thinking about a time that God did something for me and I feel like praising him.

What difference does it make to you to question what I mean by in spite of?

Do you ever praise God just because?

In SPITE Of maybe having reasons that you would otherwise not want to praise him?

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:34:55 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:33:57 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:31:56 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:29:20 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

I wasn't debating you.
I was merely giving my point of view.

:dontknow:

No problem and I am giving you my point of view. You acted as if only what he had to say warrants for a certain feeling right now. Maybe for you, but I did not have to read anything he said to feel like it.

Ok... now that last post was slightly skewed, SPOKENFOR.

I wasn't saying that I got that feeling ONLY AFTER what I read what Willie had to say.

What I was saying, is that Willie articulated, put into words the REASON why we have that feeling.

GOD is what brings forth that feeling. Willie just put it into words the reason WHY God brings forth that feeling.

Ok, and that is a wonderful thing. Now, I am praising God for a different reason.

What is the key difference that you see?


Just asking because perhaps this is where the difference in our views comes or perhaps our views aren't as different as we think?

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:41:53 AM
Can we drop this, please?

Sparrow,

Please do not try to read into other peoples mind and judge their motives and intentions. You do not know where I am right now in my head and what I am thinking about to make me say I praise the Lord in spite of.

Does it matter what I mean by in spite of and why I am praising the Lord.

You are taking this to a place it does not need to be taken to, seriously.

Maybe I am just thinking about the Goodness of God in SPITE OF what I am going through right now in my own personal life.

Maybe I am just thinking about the Goodness of God in SPITE OF what is happening around me right now.

Maybe I am just thinking about a time that God did something for me and I feel like praising him.

What difference does it make to you to question what I mean by in spite of?

Do you ever praise God just because?

In SPITE Of maybe having reasons that you would otherwise not want to praise him?

Wow. Ok...

it's dropped.

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:42:08 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:34:55 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:33:57 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:31:56 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:29:20 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:20:20 AM

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:15:00 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 26, 2009, 02:07:28 AM
This is what I feel like in spite of whatever in life, whatever it brings...... I feel like shouting!...I feel like singing and praising!  :bgdance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwMzirVEyeg&feature=related)

Me too.

But see.. from my point of view..Willie's post reflects it.
What Willie is saying brings forth that feeling...


y'know? 

That is from 'your' perspective and point of view right now. I understand what he is saying totally, and what is say is true....But, I speak from another side of life as well as that one. I have been there and am there and I am also 'here' at this place too.

Sister, that is what you have to hear right now to make you shout or praise God. I have decided to praise him in spite of.

BTW, Have you read my other post, the last long one? I believe I still have a reason to shout even I never read his.

So, you do you and I will do me...and I won't debate why either on of us will feel like praising the Lord right now... That is not even appropriate, I am not going there.

I wasn't debating you.
I was merely giving my point of view.

:dontknow:

No problem and I am giving you my point of view. You acted as if only what he had to say warrants for a certain feeling right now. Maybe for you, but I did not have to read anything he said to feel like it.

Ok... now that last post was slightly skewed, SPOKENFOR.

I wasn't saying that I got that feeling ONLY AFTER what I read what Willie had to say.

What I was saying, is that Willie articulated, put into words the REASON why we have that feeling.

GOD is what brings forth that feeling. Willie just put it into words the reason WHY God brings forth that feeling.

Ok, and that is a wonderful thing. Now, I am praising God for a different reason.

What is the key difference that you see?


Just asking because perhaps this is where the difference in our views comes or perhaps our views aren't as different as we think?

I am going to drop this now. This is really becoming a totally useless conversation Sparrow..that is actually getting me out of a praising mood.

I just feel like Praising the Lord Sparrow. I just feel like Praising the Lord, that is all. I feel like getting offline and putting on some music undisturbed and praise MY GOD JUST BECAUSE he has been so good to me.

I know we are having this conversation on judgment and such.

Trust me, My mind is here right now, but is gone another place where I just feel like Praising the Lord IN SPITE of MANY things right now. Too long of a list to get into, I just feel like praising God.

Just for the record...
I was only trying to discuss.

Isn't that what a discussion board is?

I'm not sure why it has to be "dropped".

your response caught my by surprise.
That is why I posted what I did in my last post.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry..
I'm not reading into other peoples minds or judging their motives or intentions.
Do you know why I am not? Because I am asking you questions. That is your proof.
I am asking what is on your mind...
so that I DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE of reading into your mind.


but you are telling me to drop it.

So I don't know what to do with that.

 :dontknow:


I hope you have a peaceful rest of the day, SPOKENFOR.

Just because someone asks you a question on a message board, doesn't mean you have to answer right away. You can just tell the person "let me get back to you" or something.
It's not a big deal. We just happened to be posting at the same time. Anyone can back out of a discussion at any time. It's a message board, that is it's nature. Sometimes it seems like a chatroom because people are posting simultaneously so all of a sudden you can start to feel this "pressure" to immediately post a response.

Perhaps that is where the breakdown in communication arose?

Well, I do hope that you come back at a later time and respond.

Like I said, I hope you have a peaceful rest of the day.

Until then,
I look forward to talking to you again,
sparrow

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 02:47:49 AM
Just for the record...
I was only trying to discuss.

Isn't that what a discussion board is?

I'm not sure why it has to be "dropped".

your response caught my by surprise.
That is why I posted what I did in my last post.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry..
I'm not reading into other peoples minds or judging their motives or intentions.
Do you know why I am not? Because I am asking you questions. That is your proof.
I am asking what is on your mind...
so that I DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE of reading into your mind.


but you are telling me to drop it.

So I don't know what to do with that.

What is on my mind? Honestly, right now I am getting irritated, which means it is time for me to log off and bow out of the conversation and get alone with God right now.

I just feel like praising the Lord.

I have been listening to this song all day, it is a song my Grandmother loved and we praised the Lord off of at her funeral two years ago. It makes me want to praise the Lord when I think of his goodness. It makes me want to praise him IN SPITE OF...for no apparent reason, though there are many.>Just because I feel like it right now. Just because he has kept me sane and spared my life and took me through so much and I am still alive. Just because I know he is good in SPITE OF what comes. Come what may, I trust him enough to praise him in the storms of life...when I have and when I do not..when I understand and when I do not understand.

Sorry,

But, it is just time for me to log off..I feel I am getting irritated a bit.....I do not not feel like debating why I said in spite of.

Perhaps we both have misunderstood each other.

Ok, SpokenFor....
that's all you had to say sister.

(your "in spite of") reasons.

That's what I was trying to clarify.


We ALL have our part in the lake of fire.
Your struggles, my struggles, Willie's struggles...

WE are all in this together.

My questioning you was my trying to bring YOU out... bring YOUR thoughts and ideas OUT...
My questioning you wasn't trying to put you into a box or trying to LABEL you or judge you. It was the opposite of what I think you thought, sis.


I think the conversations veered off into some odd place and nothing was making sense.

Perhaps at a later date, we can put it back on the road and get it moving again.

peace.

http://www.chosentoremember.com/chapt_1.htm

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 25, 2009, 11:07:25 PM

Quote from: sparrow on July 25, 2009, 10:54:46 PM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 25, 2009, 04:50:41 PM
I have power over you so I beat you to death just because I can (if I am "all" powerful, then I didn't really have to do that, but I tell you it's for a good reason), then I nurse you back to health, eventually you may come to realize that your never going to beat me, so , you just accept it, but you will not really have any love.

It's really a left over remnant of ET or even annihilation teaching that has allowed me to see an even more wonderful picture of God.

:thumbsup:

Only one  :thumbsup: sparrow. They are for free...

Paul it's not that I disagree. I sorta agree but still I have some sort of fight/doubt inside myself about it.
I think it's correct to say Jesus warned about punishment. Ok, it wasn't about lava pit but it wasn't about hitting you once with a cotton pad neither. So I'm looking for a balance. God is love etc. But denying punishment of some sort isn't scriputal either.
Right now, for me, it's a paradox.

It's ok if you disagree,  and I am not negating judgment.  But when people say something like  "Who are we to say what God will do" they say that by presenting the picture of what "God told them" is coming our way.  So then they contradict themselves by painting a picture of what they say God will do.

So, since I cannot prove what I went through to become different through the miracle I know, all I can do is share.  There is a lot I lost along the way in my physical world both physically and emotionally.   God does not free us from the law of reaping what we sow, but what we reap, may not be readily seen by the observance of what we think others deserve.

What I will not do as many do WW is claim you are in a slumber, deceived, need a veil lifted, etc.  to falsely posture my faith because you do not see it my way.

We all are where we are, but I know the mercy I have been shown in life and only hope the same for others.  It doesn't make me perfect but that's where I am at.   

COSMIC DECEPTION: LET THE CITIZEN BEWARE

by Steven M. Greer M.D.
Director, The Disclosure Project

http://www.disclosureproject.org

Copyright 2002



Imagine this. It is the summer of 2001, and someone presents you with a script for a movie or book that tells how a diabolical terrorist plot unfolds wherein both 110 story World Trade Center towers and part of the Pentagon are destroyed by commercial jets hijacked and flown into those structures.

Of course you would laugh, and if you were a movie mogul or book editor, reject it out of hand as ridiculous and implausible, even for a fictional novel or movie. After all, how could a commercial jet, being tracked on radar after two jets had already hit the World Trade towers, make it through our air defenses, into the most sensitive airspace in the world, and in broad daylight on a crystal clear day, slam into the Pentagon! And this in a country that spends over $1 billion a day to defend itself! Absurd, illogical - nobody would swallow it!

Unfortunately, there are some of us who have seen these scripts - and of far worse things to come - and we are not laughing.

One of the few silver linings to these recent tragedies is that maybe - just maybe - people will take seriously, however far-fetched it may seem at first, the prospect that a shadowy, para-governmental and transnational entity exists that has kept UFOs secret - and is planning a deception and tragedy that will dwarf the events of 9/11.

The testimony of hundreds of government, military and corporate insiders has established this: That UFOs are real, that some are built by our secret 'black' shadowy government projects and some are from extraterrestrial civilizations, and that a group has kept this secret so that the technology behind the UFO can be withheld - until the right time. This technology can - and eventually will - replace the need for oil, gas, coal, ionizing nuclear power, and other centralized and highly destructive energy systems.

This 5 trillion dollar industry - energy and transportation - is currently highly centralized, metered and lucrative. It is the stuff that runs the entire industrialized world. It is the mother of all special interests. It is not about money as you and I think of it, but about geo-political power - the very centralized power on which the current order in the world runs. The world is kept in a state of roiling wars, endless poverty for most of Earth's denizens and global environmental ruin, just to prop up this evil world order.

As immense as that game is, there is a bigger one: Control through fear. As Wernher von Braun related to Dr. Carol Rosin, his spokesperson for the last 4 years of his life, a maniacal machine - the military, industrial, intelligence, laboratory complex - would go from Cold War, to Rogue Nations, to Global Terrorism (the stage we find ourselves at today), to the ultimate trump card: A hoaxed threat from space.

To justify eventually spending trillions of dollars on space weapons, the world would be deceived about a threat from outer space, thus uniting the world in fear, in militarism, and in war.

Since 1992 I have seen this script unveiled to me by at least a dozen well-placed insiders. Of course, initially I laughed, thinking this just too absurd and far-fetched. Dr. Rosin gave her testimony to the Disclosure Project before 9/11. And yet others told me explicitly that things that looked like UFOs but that are built and under the control of deeply secretive 'black' projects, were being used to simulate - hoax - ET-appearing events, including some abductions and cattle mutilations, to sow the early seeds of cultural fear regarding life in outer space. And that at some point after global terrorism, events would unfold that would utilize the now-revealed Alien Reproduction Vehicles (ARVs, or reversed-engineered UFOs made by humans by studying actual ET craft - see the book "Disclosure" by the same author) to hoax an attack on Earth.

Like the movie "Independence Day", an attempt to unite the world through militarism would unfold using ET as the new cosmic scapegoat (think Jews during the Third Reich).

None of this is new to me or other insiders. The report from Iron Mountain, NY, written in the 1960s, described the need to demonize life in outer space so we could have a new enemy. An enemy off-planet that could unite humans (in fear and war) and that would prove to be the ultimate prop for the trillion dollar military industrial complex that conservative Republican President and five star general Eisenhower warned us about in 1961 (no one was listening then, either...).

So here is the post-9/11 script - one that will be played out unless enough people are informed and the plan can be foiled because they will be unable to fool a sufficient number of citizens and leaders:

After a period of terrorism - a period during which the detonation of nuclear devices will be threatened and possibly actuated, thus justifying expanding the weaponization of space - an effort will ramp up to present the public with information about a threat from outer space. Not just asteroids hitting the Earth, but other threats. An extraterrestrial threat.

Over the past 40 years, UFOlogy, as it is called, combined with a mighty media machine, has increasingly demonized ETs via fearsome movies like "Independence Day", and pseudo-science that presents alien kidnappings and abuse as a fact (in some circles) of modern life. That some humans have had contact with ETs I have no doubt; that the real ET contact has been subsumed in an ocean of hoaxed accounts I am certain.

That is, real ET events are seldom reported out to the public. The Machine ensures that the hoaxed, frightening and intrinsically xenophobic accounts are the ones seen and read by millions. This mental conditioning to fear ET has been subtly reinforced for decades, in preparation for future deceptions. Deceptions that will make 9/11 look trivial.

I write this now because I have recently been contacted by several highly placed media and intelligence sources that have made it clear to me that hoaxed events and story-lines are imminent that will attempt to further ramp up the fear machine regarding UFOs and ETs. After all, to have an enemy, you must make the people hate and fear a person, a group of people, or in this case an entire category of beings.

To be clear: the maniacal covert programs controlling UFO secrecy, ARVs and related technologies - including those technologies that can simulate ET events, ET abductions and the like - plan to hijack Disclosure, spin it into the fire of fear, and roll out events that will eventually present ETs as a new enemy. Do not be deceived.

This hogwash, already the stuff of countless books, videos, movies, documentaries and the like, will attempt to glom onto the facts, evidence and first-hand insider testimony of The Disclosure Project, and on its coattails, deliver to the world the cosmic deception that falsely portrays ETs as a threat from space. Do not be deceived.

By commingling fact with fiction, and by hoaxing UFO events that can look terrifying, the Plan is to eventually create a new, sustainable, off-planet enemy. And who will be the wiser?

You will. Because now you know that after 60 years, trillions of dollars and the best scientific minds in the world pressed into action, a secretive, shadowy group - a government within the government and at once fully outside the government as we know it - has mastered the technologies, the art of deception, and the capability to launch an attack on Earth and make it look like ETs did it. In 1997, I brought a man to Washington to brief members of Congress and others about this plan. Our entire team at the time met this man. He had been present at planning sessions when ARVs - things built by Lockheed, Northrup, et al, and housed in secretive locations around the world - would be used to simulate an attack on certain assets, making leaders and citizens alike believe that there was a threat from space, when there is none. (Before he could testify, his handlers spirited him away to a secret location in Virginia until the briefing was over...) Sound familiar? Wernher von Braun warned of such a hoax, as a pretext for putting war in space. And many others have warned of the same.

Space based weapons are already in place - part of a secret parallel space program that has been operating since the 1960s. ARVs are built and ready to go (see the book "Disclosure" and the chapter with the testimony of Mark McCandlish, et al). Space holographic deception technologies are in place, tested and ready to fire. And the Big Media is a pawn, now taking dictation from the right hand of the king.

I know this all sounds like science fiction. Absurd. Impossible. Just like 9/11 would have sounded before 9/11. But the unthinkable happened and may happen again, unless we are vigilant.

Combine all of this with the current atmosphere of fear and manipulation and there is a real risk of suspending our collective judgment and our constitution.

But know this: If there was a threat from outer space, we would have known about it as soon as humans started exploding nuclear weapons and going into space with manned travel. That we are still breathing the free air of Earth, given the galacticly stupid and reckless actions of an out of control, illegal, secret group, is abundant testimony to the restraint and peaceful intentions of these visitors. The threat is wholly human. And it is we who must address this threat, rein it in and transform the current situation of war, destruction and secret manipulation to one of true Disclosure and an era of sustained peace.

War in space, to replace war on Earth, is not evolution, but cosmic madness. A world thus united in fear is worse than one divided by ignorance. It is now time for the great leap into the future, a leap that moves us out of fear and ignorance and into an unbroken era of universal peace. Know that this is our destiny. And it will be ours just as soon as we choose it.

Steven M. Greer M.D.
Director, The Disclosure Project
Albemarle County, Virginia
June, 2002

http://www.disclosureproject.org

The Greatest Secret in Modern History
UFOs and a Solution to the Environmental and Energy Crisis

The Cover-up: UFOs

Mercury & Gemini Astronaut, Colonel Gordon Cooper
A saucer flew right over [us] and landed out on the dry lakebed. [The cameramen] went out with their cameras towards the UFO. I had a chance to hold [the film] up to the window to look at it. Good close-up shots. There was no doubt in my mind that it was someplace other than on this Earth. -- Video interview. Transcribed in Disclosure, Steven M. Greer, MD., ed., pp. 226 - 227.

FAA Division Chief of Accidents and Investigations, John Callahan
The UFO was bouncing around the 747....Well, I've been involved in a lot of cover-ups with the FAA. When we gave the presentation to the Reagan staff, they had all those people swear that this never happened. But they never had me swear it never happened. I've got a videotape. I've got the voice tape. I've got the reports that were filed. -- Video interview and Disclosure, pp. 80 - 85.

Russian Air Force, Space Communications Center, General Vasily Alexeyev
They came up with a table with pictures of all the shapes of UFOs that had ever been recorded - about fifty....The study of UFOs may reveal some new forms of energy to us, or at least bring us closer to a solution. -- Disclosure, pp. 345 - 347.

Former Director of CIA, Admiral R.H. Hillenkoetter
Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense. To hide the facts, the Air Force has silenced its personnel. -- The New York Times, Sunday, February 28, 1960: "Air Force Order on 'Saucers' Cited," p. L30. See also Disclosure, p. 58.

Corporate Manager of Fairchild Industries, Spokesperson for Wernher Von Braun, Dr. Carol Rosin
Von Braun [rocket science pioneer] told me [in 1974] the reasons for space-based weaponry were all based on a lie. He said the strategy was that first the Russians, then the terrorists are going to be considered the enemy. The next enemy was asteroids. "The last card is the alien card, and all of it is a lie."....I was at a meeting in Fairchild Industries in the War Room. The conversation [was] about how they were going to antagonize these enemies, and there was going to be a Gulf War. Now this is 1977! -- pp. 255 - 259.

More Cover-up: Advanced Technologies Developed from UFOs

US Marine Corps, Captain Bill Uhouse
The [flight] simulator was for the extraterrestrial craft they had - a 30 meter one that crashed in Kingman, Arizona, back in 1953. I was inside the actual alien craft for a start-up. There are probably two or three dozen [flying saucers] that we built. -- Disclosure, pp. 384, 385.

US Army, Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering, Colonel Thomas E. Bearden
Probably 50 inventors have invented [virtually cost-free energy systems]. If we use these systems, we can clean up this biosphere. But the entire structure of science, industry, and the patent office are against you....The more powerful the agency, the more they resort not only to legal, but to extra-legal means to suppress their competition. -- Disclosure, pp. 534-542. See also www.cheniere.org.

Disclosure Project, Founder and Director, Steven M. Greer, M.D.
The situation is so dire that senior Joint Chiefs of Staff leaders in the Pentagon who I have briefed have no more access to such projects than any other civilian-unless they are on the 'inside.' The government is really quite outside the loop. We have insiders and scientists who can prove that we do in fact possess energy generation systems capable of completely and permanently replacing all forms of currently used energy generation and transportation systems. Every single person who is concerned about the environment and the human future should call for urgent hearings to allow these technologies to be disclosed, declassified, and safely applied. -- Disclosure, pp. 14, 15, 567. See also Dr. Greer's websites at www.disclosureproject.org, and www.seaspower.com.

For full story see book Disclosure and witness videos at www.disclosureproject.org.
Disclosure Project has over 400 government and military witnesses prepared to testify on this subject.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 26, 2009, 06:54:59 AM
It's ok if you disagree  

(At this point) I'm don't disagree. Neither do I agree. To do so I need to understand what I dis/agree with.
Right now your understanding can be wrong. Or mine. I learned a few things from the Bible over the past months. Sometimes I think I get a fairly good overview (not claiming details). But then like with posts like yours I no longer know for sure. There is a conflict somewhere. Could be your view. My view. Both our views. I simply don't know. As said I even have a discussion with myself about it.... :winkgrin:

QuoteBut when people say something like  "Who are we to say what God will do" they say that by presenting the picture of what "God told them" is coming our way.  So then they contradict themselves by painting a picture of what they say God will do.

I don't agree with you. But I'm not sure it's because you are 'wrong' or because of the difference between Dutch and English...
The way I understand "Who are we to say what God will do" is that we have no right/power to influence the ways of God.
In Dutch that sorta means that you possible don't agree but will just follow the higher power. And to follow that higher power you need to 'paint a picture' of the wishes of that higher power. So I see no contradiction. But my guess right now is that your 'painting a picture' means forcing the ways of God according to that picture.
If that is true this shows to me how difficult translating is. We both live in modern societies, same time, similar language structure. Not unsimilar laws. etc. But we have different understandings of things. Now imagine reading a 5000 year old book completely different society with another type of language.

QuoteGod does not free us from the law of reaping what we sow, but what we reap, may not be readily seen by the observance of what we think others deserve.

I need a little more explanation on that Paul...
What does '...readily seen...' mean? God saves judgements for the afterlife or lets say because you sweared God punishes you by cutting your finger?

QuoteWhat I will not do as many do WW is claim you are in a slumber, deceived, need a veil lifted, etc.

I lived with myself all my life  :winkgrin: so I do know I need education on what the Bible means. And the more I learn the more I know I'm not the perfect saint God has in mind...

Quoteto falsely posture my faith because you do not see it my way

Don't worry Paul noone has ever been able to do so. I collect all info. Analyse. Compare. Look for contradictions. etc etc. Only then I make up my mind. I'm not the type of person that says "It's true because Jerry Springer said so!"

QuoteWe all are where we are, but I know the mercy I have been shown in life and only hope the same for others.  It doesn't make me perfect but that's where I am at.

I'm here. And I'm here to learn. And I learn by asking. And by playing out contradicting views against each other. Only one view can be right. Or both (partly) wrong. That my feel like an attack. But it's a way of learning.

I like what you say about the veil. Lately I've been accused being here for promoting satans work because I'm veiled.
The way I see it from a Biblical pov is that noone can see his/her own veil. I you can then the veil is removed. You can see (spiritual) changes life; but because the way the Bible decribes that veil you never know if a veil is added or removed. Or that there are still veils remaining. Personally I think only Jesus had no veils. Meaning we all have a veil. (some more than others)

So no attack. No disagreement. Just drilling for the truth.

Quote from: fullarmor2 on July 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
     Well,  we know that very terrible things are going to happen on this planet as this age draws to an end. I think much of it will be caused by people,  other than the specific judgments of God in Revelation for example.

Actually - we don't KNOW that. In context, the Olivet discourse wasn't talking about THIS age .

Quote from: fullarmor2 on July 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
  I think much of it will be caused by people,  other than the specific judgments of God in Revelation for example.

That's my contention - evil people are causing the hurt and destruction. Not God. So a LACK of God knowledge is the source of destruction. 

Quote from: fullarmor2 on July 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
There are many people now,  of very corrupt minds,  destitute of truth,  and who are filled with hatred for everyone outside their religion.  And they particularly hate Israel and America.   I would not be a bit surprised,  if America,  sadly,   comes under attack from these evil people in the very near future,  and it may very well involve wmd attacks.      Will God protect America from these monsters?  I don't know.

And if a nuke hits NY tomorrow and the whole thing burns up Wilkerson and others will say "God did it" (well Wilkerson may not say anything - I think he's in NY  :mshock:).

That's why when the first line of the OP says "I know many on here do not believe that anything is going to happen in the near future in America," I think SF may have misunderstood my objections on another thread. Terrible things can and DO happen everywhere on earth, I'm just saying GOD is not going to burn up/crush/torment the masses.

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 26, 2009, 09:37:15 AM
The way I see it from a Biblical pov is that noone can see his/her own veil. I you can then the veil is removed. You can see (spiritual) changes life; but because the way the Bible decribes that veil you never know if a veil is added or removed. Or that there are still veils remaining. Personally I think only Jesus had no veils. Meaning we all have a veil. (some more than others)

Wisdomous words there  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote from: sparrow on July 26, 2009, 03:18:48 AM
Ok, SpokenFor....
that's all you had to say sister.

(your "in spite of") reasons.

That's what I was trying to clarify.


We ALL have our part in the lake of fire.
Your struggles, my struggles, Willie's struggles...

WE are all in this together.

My questioning you was my trying to bring YOU out... bring YOUR thoughts and ideas OUT...
My questioning you wasn't trying to put you into a box or trying to LABEL you or judge you. It was the opposite of what I think you thought, sis.


I think the conversations veered off into some odd place and nothing was making sense.

Perhaps at a later date, we can put it back on the road and get it moving again.

peace.

No problem, I just did not feel like explaining at the moment why I felt like Praising the Lord, being a number of reasons..and it seemed odd the way it was asked,etc.

Anyway, no problem and no hard feelings.

Nothing wrong with that.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRayKxgePQI

I have been reading the entire book of Luke today. It was as if God was confirming to me what he has me saying at this hour regardless of what anyone else thinks. I will continue to tell people it is time to repent.

I was particular drawn to the verses below as well in Luke. I find that Jesus did not spare them in telling them that it was time to repent or else they would/COULD receive the same judgments, and it had nothing to do with who sin was bigger than another..But, to repent of sin.

Being that a towel fell and destroyed some people, Jesus is saying they too could also see this kind of fate if they did not repent.

This message is particularly but not just to those who do not know the Lord. It is also a call for us who do to get serious about our walk with God.

Interpret as you wish or the the Spirit of God leads.

Luke 13:1-5

1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 04:36:04 AM
Nothing wrong with that.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRayKxgePQI

Amen.....to that!.....phew!......

I just downloaded a song and the song only had 17 seconds...talk about wanting to scream right now...instead, I better just Praise him in spite of..

I want to add some things to this, I believe God had me come at this this way for his own reasons because before we see a harvest, there is going to be a PROCESS by which it happens. You don't just plant seeds and sit there and expect the harvest to come forth overnight. The process of Harvesting comes with toiling the fields, picking the weeds, watering, and such. Sometimes the harvest we wish to receive at that time does not come forth because of maybe bad weather or other factors that do not allow for the crop to produce. Nevertheless, God will get the harvest eventually.

What God is interested in the end is always a harvest, It is always 'fruit' that we are producing. That is the ultimate goal. Now, how we end up with this fruit is because the pruner MUST prune us..and when we produce more fruit he prunes us more, it is painful, it does not feel good. The ultimate goal is not comfort, but more FRUIT.

I am pretty much convinced that there are two groups on the planet today.  One group is relatively speaking at the level of a very primitive cultural tribe.  That would be us.  The other group, much smaller in size, is in possession of technology that we cannot even dream about.

Consider the great strides being made in science at the end of the 19th century by Tesla, Stubblefield, and others.  Wireless electricity, phone, radio and other inventions were being birthed at an astounding rate, and then, suddenly everything goes quiet.  These inventions would then trickle out decades later.

The technology was taken underground and continued its development in secrecy for the next 100 years, bringing us to today.  This is also true in the biological and chemical sciences, as well.  The airplane and the automobile are 100 year old technology.

Meanwhile, the masses were treated to nonsense theories about space and time,  while their homes were connected by miles of wire to machines that counted the penny-watts, and their only modes of transportation were tied to oil.  Someone made a lot of money.  And, taught them in school that they were the children of monkeys.

Why does this interest almost no one?  At the very least, when this group decides to present its incredible technology to the masses in a show of terror or amazement, we need to be psychologically prepared for the trickery, and be assured that it's just science, not magic, not aliens, not gods, just science.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.









[Stubblefield] made private demonstrations of wireless telephony in 1892. Rainey T. Wells was one of the first persons to hear Stubblefield's wireless voice transmissions, in that year. Wireless telegraphy using damped high frequency radio waves was demonstrated in 1894 by Sir Oliver Lodge, but that system could not carry voice messages or music. In 1898, Stubblefield was issued U.S. Patent 600457 for an "Electric battery," which was an electrolytic coil of iron and insulated copper wire to be immersed in liquid or buried in the ground, where it could also serve as a ground terminal for wireless telephony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Stubblefield

Amen SPOKENFOR.
For the Son needs a place to lay his head.

 
 Amen  Sis ,

there is the fruits   worthy of  repentace and than there is the firstfruits to God though His Holy Spirit !


Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,


and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you,


That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.



 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:


every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  



Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.  


 I do see what you are saying  :HeartThrob:

"Those believers who spend their time worrying about a world government, the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, the European Union, communism, terrorists, conspiracies, or any other earthly thing will have no solace or security, but will find themselves in constant fear and dread, as Jesus forewarned, "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on THE EARTH" (Lk. 21:26).  Take note that the fearful are among those who have their part in the lake of fire! (Rev. 21:8), for these have not learned to dwell in the secret place of the most High, under the shadow of the Almighty; they have remained inhabiters of the earth." — Preston Eby, FROM THE CANDLESTICK TO THE THRONE, Part 92

Good note, BServ.  J.Preston's A-OK!


Hi SPOKENFOR.  As a friend, I'd like to ask you a few questions, specifically about your recent experiences and revelations - but I also have a more general, universal interest in such things.  

Please don't take any of this as criticism or reason to doubt anything you know you hear from God clearly and directly; but more so, exploration.  I look around at a lot of things, hear different people make predictions and declarations, and have heard them do so most of my life.  I wonder/have a bit of a need to understand.  (I'm a wonderer, people watcher, try to figure out what drives us/makes us tick - I've been a people and situation-studier for years  :Chinscratch:).

So here goes.  How did the things you've expressed in this thread come to you?  How did you realize them, receive them, 'see' them, etc.?  Dreams, thoughts, literal visions, etc.?  

Do you think 100% of every piece of everything you've shared here has come to you directly from God?   On the other hand, do you think anything external could have influenced you at all, i.e., hearing others' prophecies/predictions (David Wilkerson - destruction) or Kim Clement ("things are going to be great"), etc.  [Side note;  which one's right?  Or are they both right, i.e., DW's destruction first, then K.Clement's "all's fantastic" later - restoration after destruction?]

Also, could anything internally have affected you (mood, mental status, own thoughts/fears, etc.)?  I'm no prophet (although perhaps the son of one), but I know my own thoughts, moods, mental status etc. can affect my personal view of God, the world, other people, etc.  On the other hand, I believe God can use ALL that to bring us to where we can hear Him and understand His message.  It can get kind'a complicated  :umnick:.  (That's coming from a "not-a-prophet" :laughing7:.  It may be clear as bell to you - me, not so much sometimes :cool:). 

I think the whole concept of God speaking to us, how He leads us, how we hear Him - sometimes recognizing His voice, sometimes missing it - is not only extremely interesting, but sometimes can be confusing.  I bet there's a thousand different voices in Christendom right now proclaiming 1,000 different things.  Someone's right, someone's wrong, many things meld somewhere in between.

Please just sort through these questions when you have time, and I will watch for any response.  Trust God, lean not to your own understanding, hear His voice, trust His leadership.  He will lead you into all truth.   :thumbsup:

Thanks, God's blessings to you, James.

Quote"Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on THE EARTH"

Men's hearts will be failing for fear because they will have no idea what they are looking at, because they were born, bred, and raised in darkness, and they apparently prefer it that way.

Not by Might, Not By Power — By My Spirit says the Lord

The light shined in the darkness, and the darkness did not understand it.

Amen molly Amen.

Quote from: jabcat on July 27, 2009, 05:29:16 AM
Good note, BServ.  J.Preston's A-OK!


Hi SPOKENFOR.  As a friend, I'd like to ask you a few questions, specifically about your recent experiences and revelations - but I also have a more general, universal interest in such things.  

Please don't take any of this as criticism or reason to doubt anything you know you hear from God clearly and directly; but more so, exploration.  I look around at a lot of things, hear different people make predictions and declarations, and have heard them do so most of my life.  I wonder/have a bit of a need to understand.  (I'm a wonderer, people watcher, try to figure out what drives us/makes us tick - I've been a people and situation-studier for years  :Chinscratch:).

So here goes.  How did the things you've expressed in this thread come to you?  How did you realize them, receive them, 'see' them, etc.?  Dreams, thoughts, literal visions, etc.?  

Do you think 100% of every piece of everything you've shared here has come to you directly from God?   On the other hand, do you think anything external could have influenced you at all, i.e., hearing others' prophecies/predictions (David Wilkerson - destruction) or Kim Clement ("things are going to be great"), etc.  [Side note;  which one's right?  Or are they both right, i.e., DW's destruction first, then K.Clement's "all's fantastic" later - restoration after destruction?]

Also, could anything internally have affected you (mood, mental status, own thoughts/fears, etc.)?  I'm no prophet (although perhaps the son of one), but I know my own thoughts, moods, mental status etc. can affect my personal view of God, the world, other people, etc.  On the other hand, I believe God can use ALL that to bring us to where we can hear Him and understand His message.  It can get kind'a complicated  :umnick:.

I think the whole concept of God speaking to us, how He leads us, how we hear Him - sometimes recognizing His voice, sometimes missing it - is not only extremely interesting, but sometimes can be confusing.  I bet there's a thousand different voices in Christendom right now proclaiming 1,000 different things.  Someone's right, someone's wrong, many things meld somewhere in between.

Please just sort through these questions when you have time, and I will watch for any response.  Trust God, lean not to your own understanding, hear His voice, trust His leadership.  He will lead you into all truth.   :thumbsup:

Thanks, God's blessings to you, James.

No problem Jabcat, I will answer you the best of my ability.

When I received the revelation of UR, It came from God first, and then he lead me to others who confirmed what he had showed me.

It is the same as this.

God has been showing me a lot of things through my own experiences, revelations, dreams, just spending time with him, through all types of signs and different things.

I do not listen to any of the prophets that you speak of. I have in passing heard a few things they say and heard of their prophecies but I have not and can not tell you I have listened to any of them in full or even half way. There is only one thing I heard Wilkernson say in a short film...oh about 7 minutes long and in that he was saying that we need to wake up pretty much..There was nothing about predictions and such., I know nothing of his other prophecies at all..I do not even read them. I do not read anything unless I know for sure the Lord leads me to.

In the end I follow the Spirit of God.

I believe because he has me spending a lot of time with him alone and he does not allow for me to listen to a lot of other people that he is able to tell me what he wants me to know.

If someone else is saying the same thing, then I believe that God is also speaking to them. I can not say he is not.

I know for sure we are about to enter a time of lack in this country..I mean serious lack as far as many things we are use to...and many who have their trust in the world and like BelovedServant said governments and such will have a harder time understanding and trusting God..Our Ark is in Christ alone.

I also want to add..I believe that God light will shine in the darkness..not just after the Storm..But, during the Storms of life.

I do not believe that everybody is going to be rich or a health and wealth prosperity gospel at all. I believe the riches we will receive are SPIRITUAL RICHES in CHRIST JESUS.

There is much MEAT in Christ that we have not even begun to tap into.

WONDERFUL — Our Ark is in Christ alone — WONDERFUL

Another thing, the people that I have met that also have the same belief are not anybody well known, they are people God has had like me who are just lowly servants, that is all.

Sometimes it is hard to also see the 'good' that God will do or can do because we associate good with 'no problems' as well, that is another issue and problem many have.

Sometimes we are not able to see the good that God can or will do because our focus of good is only what we can see now. If things are going to get worse, how can things get better? That is what people think. It is impossible.

God has a BIG Plan, and we are playing a small part of it.

I do not claim to know all things, or even how all things will go down.

God shows me what I need to know at the moment and what I can handle at the time. No more and no less.

I believe that there are plans of God that will shock us all at some point, I honestly do. It is not for us to see right now or understand, BUT to walk by faith and not sight and continue to grow in the knowledge and wisdom of the Lord Jesus..That is what we should be concerned with.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 05:47:28 AM
WONDERFUL — Our Ark is in Christ alone — WONDERFUL

That is it..Christ ALONE is the Ark. I wish many more could see that. Not anything in this world.

I do believe God uses many, many things to teach us.

I like your point about God's light shining IN the darkness, not just after.  Nice.

Thanks, God's blessings, James.

Well, James, that's the only place light can shine!
Amen?
How does it feel to be a candle Jab?
'Cause you're LIGHT!

Quote from: jabcat on July 27, 2009, 06:02:32 AM
I do believe God uses many, many things to teach us.

I like your point about God's light shining IN the darkness, not just after.  Nice.

Thanks, God's blessings, James.

Amen. God light will shine BRIGHT in DARKNESS.

I believe we are in for some interesting and nevertheless exciting days on earth. The best and worst of times. God is in control and I am not my own anymore.

Our Peace is in Christ...... Praise God for Jesus!....

" I am not my own anymore "

You are after God's heart!

I'm speechless.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 06:14:21 AM
" I am not my own anymore "

You are after God's heart!

I'm speechless.

Oh, Sister I am really am not. I wish words could express it. I can't express it in words, but I can now relate to what Paul meant when he said that.

I tell you, I do not go to a store or even come online unless the Lord leads me. He wakes me up when he chooses, I go to bed when he tells me. I am not my own...

1 Corinthians 6:12

12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Yes, Yes, It is his heart I have been after..Nothing more..Nothing more...  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

I do the same SPOKENFOR.

I sleep with Him, wake with Him.
At the store, He told me: "David, it's about the people, not the food; Spread good cheer!"
I could go on and on, but...
Point being is it's all about His life, on earth, expressed through the Manifested Sons of God!

 Thanks for the reminder and uplift.  You too!   :handshake:

II Corinthians  5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So just a general question to whoever wants to answer...

How are you preparing?

By the Cross Sparrow.
Pick yours up and follow on to know the Lord.
Death is the precursor of Life.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 06:46:29 AM
By the Cross Sparrow.
Pick yours up and follow on to know the Lord.
Death is the precursor of Life.

Beloved Servant.. how do you know that I have not "picked up my cross" and that I have not followed on to know the Lord?

I don't think you are answering what I am asking.

I'm talking specifically... with what people are talking about here, what are you doing to prepare?

I don't know.
Why the assumption?
You asked.
I answered.
If you have it on your shoulders, you're prepared.
Now, we die!
For only 2 days though!
We rise on the third. Praise God!

ok, fair enough.

I'm just curious as to where folks minds are... what they are thinking...
with regards to this "brace yourselves" message.

thanks for answering.

"Our Ark is in Christ alone."
SPOKENFOR spoke it earlier Sparrow.

Well... ok.
I don't think you understand what I'm asking.
sorry, I don't know how else to word it.
Perhaps later on I can figure out how to word what I'm trying to say.

peace to ya.

It's not about buying bottled water and candles and canned goods.
Is that what you're thinking?

I really don't know, that's why I asked. I'm trying to understand what people ARE thinking...

There are three realms of man.
How do we prepare in the ...
Spiritual realm: ?
Soul realm: ?
Physical realm: ?
This is a good Bible study.

Hi Sparrow.  I said this earlier for my  :2c:, and you said that's pretty much how you see it too.

Quote jabcat - "What am I doing to prepare?  Reading His Word, praying, trusting in Him...while at the same time making some physical preparations for self and family.  Seems responsible...but still knowing that if we were unable to provide for a single silver dime or a gallon of clean water, God would provide all we needed.   As I see it, bottom line...God's in control, He will protect us either on this side of the grave or especially on the other side...isn't that [or His "final" glorious return] where, after all, the mortal takes on the immortal? "

Yes I've put a few physical basics aside.  Not to totally depend on that stuff, because only in God do we really have any security and He's our only source of hope and meeting of our needs; but He has given us some "sense" as well  :dontknow:.   I see it kind'a like, don't overdo it, God will take care of His own.  But if I knew a plane was about to crash on my house, I'd get out of it and try and drag anyone else who might be in it along with me   :dontknow:.

I know where to seek shelter in the storm.

I'm just trying to understand why people are sending out the weather forecasts all of a sudden...

does that make sense?

It's almost as if, and this is just from my perspective... It's almost as if...ok..

We're in a raging storm. There is no sign of it letting up. We all have umbrellas. There are people hurrying by and we are shouting to them "Come.... I have an umbrella...!!"

but then all of a sudden amongst us umbrella holders... there are those yelling "The rain is going to get worse!! Hailstones the size of baseballs are on the way!!!"

What is the reason for those people saying those things? Is it to perhaps warn people so they will come and get under the umbrella with us? Or is it to perhaps warn their fellow umbrella holders that they are going to need more durable umbrellas?

Do you understand what I'm saying?

There is so much FEAR in this world... that from my perspective, that is the last thing we need is to be sending more fear out there, especially by saying the hailstones are being sent down from God.

now for US... is it just a general kind of alarm to say "Hey... guys... though this world is getting worse... don't lose heart! Don't lose faith. Cling to Him... make your umbrella stronger!!"


Just trying to understand the OP.
Because I truly do not feel that I'm a place right now where I am understanding and I'd like to. I do NOT like to assume things. so that's why I'm trying to ask questions to understand the message.

Hopefully that analogy made sense.  :grin:

Quote from: jabcat on July 27, 2009, 08:08:24 AM
Hi Sparrow.  I said this earlier for my  :2c:, and you said that's pretty much how you see it too.

Quote jabcat - "What am I doing to prepare?  Reading His Word, praying, trusting in Him...while at the same time making some physical preparations for self and family.  Seems responsible...but still knowing that if we were unable to provide for a single silver dime or a gallon of clean water, God would provide all we needed.   As I see it, bottom line...God's in control, He will protect us either on this side of the grave or especially on the other side...isn't that [or His "final" glorious return] where, after all, the mortal takes on the immortal? "

Yes I've put a few physical basics aside.  Not to totally depend on that stuff, because only in God do we really have any security, but He has given us some "sense" as well  :dontknow:.   I see it kind'a like, don't overdo it, God will take care of His own.  But if I knew a plane was about to crash on my house, I'd get out of it and try and drag anyone else who might be in it along with me   :dontknow:.

thanks jabcat..

I hope that SPOKENFOR doesn't feel like I am ganging up on her.
I truly am just trying to understand the message.
I don't know what else to say to get that across, other than to say it.
"I'm just trying to understand the message."

:HeartThrob:

Well, the OP didn't scare me.
I heard every word.
I want more as the Lord sees fit.

Quote from: sparrow on July 27, 2009, 07:34:05 AM
ok, fair enough.

I'm just curious as to where folks minds are... what they are thinking...
with regards to this "brace yourselves" message.

thanks for answering.

I asked that early on "How are you preparing?" in fact I think was my first post in this thread. I don't think anyone addressed it.

 They gird themselves with Faith, Hope and Love.
And the righteousness of God.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 08:06:13 AM
There are three realms of man.
How do we prepare in the ...
Spiritual realm: ?
Soul realm: ?
Physical realm: ?
This is a good Bible study.

Exactly!..There are three realms.

I have found out that the soul is the place that resides many desires that are not necessarily God desires for us and we can confuse the two. Not that these desires are bad in themselves.

Soulish desires are what God is trying to get us to put to 'rest'. For soulish desires can and do often try to get in the way of the SPIRITUAL desires that God wish us to have, we can confuse the two.

Quote from: sparrow on July 27, 2009, 08:11:35 AM

Quote from: jabcat on July 27, 2009, 08:08:24 AM
Hi Sparrow.  I said this earlier for my  :2c:, and you said that's pretty much how you see it too.

Quote jabcat - "What am I doing to prepare?  Reading His Word, praying, trusting in Him...while at the same time making some physical preparations for self and family.  Seems responsible...but still knowing that if we were unable to provide for a single silver dime or a gallon of clean water, God would provide all we needed.   As I see it, bottom line...God's in control, He will protect us either on this side of the grave or especially on the other side...isn't that [or His "final" glorious return] where, after all, the mortal takes on the immortal? "

Yes I've put a few physical basics aside.  Not to totally depend on that stuff, because only in God do we really have any security, but He has given us some "sense" as well  :dontknow:.   I see it kind'a like, don't overdo it, God will take care of His own.  But if I knew a plane was about to crash on my house, I'd get out of it and try and drag anyone else who might be in it along with me   :dontknow:.

thanks jabcat..

I hope that SPOKENFOR doesn't feel like I am ganging up on her.
I truly am just trying to understand the message.
I don't know what else to say to get that across, other than to say it.
"I'm just trying to understand the message."

:HeartThrob:

Sorry Sparrow,

I do not think you are ganging up on me. But, at times I have to back off from the conversation. It seemed to be going somewhere that I did not know. But, all is well.  :icon_flower:

I now feel lead to bring some more things up. Sometimes God takes me a certain way and I have to go with the flow. With this will ALWAYS come misunderstanding and disagreements and confusion. I am use to that, but I have found that obedience to God is what also brings me peace, even if it is at the expense of someones temporary discomfort or confusion.

God is sounding and sending out TWO different alarms right now. He has two different messages being preached more and more and more, because the hour is drawing closer before we see these take place.

One message is 'judgment' on the unrighteous and unrepentant, The other message is "Glory of God upon the earth like nothing we have ever seen". Both of these messages are true and God is not contradicting himself and those who have been given this assignment to bring these messages are under much attack and mocking. I realized that God allows us to deal with these things because the truth is you get to share in the sufferings of Christ so that we will also be able to REIGN WITH HIM.

I want to say that the message of Judgment is very real and it is for the unrepentant. There is also a part that says the fearful will have their part in the Lake ( God is speaking of those who say Lord, Lord ) who did not find their comfort in Christ, there are many, many, many.

The message of the Glorious power of God and signs and wonders and miracles are very real as well, we will be seeing a combination of both.

It will be a very interesting time, very interesting.

I do not claim to see all the details of everything, I am not God, and he only shows us what he wants us to know and that which we can handle.

There is a certain place God want you to be in him that when you hear these things they do not phase you or scare you, because you know that judgment is not for you and you understand the purpose of it and that all these things must take place because they have been planned before we ever thought about being here. We are called to line up with God's plans, not ours. We are not called to walk by sight, but faith. We are not called to walk in any spirit of fear. If you are in fear, I will bravely say that you need to draw closer to God and I will not take that back.

At one time God had me proclaiming all the GOOD, I mean he was showing me things I could not keep up with it,seriously! I was so excited I did not want him to stop talking to me and showing me. After a while, months later, he took me another route and begin to show me the fires that he will bring to this country.

It is a reaping and sowing on one hand, on the other hand it is God saying, "Time to wake up, Time to grow up, Time to move to the next level".  "You may not understand it all, but FOLLOW ME still, keep your eyes on me".

So, we are going to see a combination of both.

To be honest, I am absolutely excited about what God is about to do. I am ready to see an end to wickedness and certain things in this country. I am ready to see a move of God that he has been preparing us for, I am absolutely ready for whatever God wants to do.

On the other hand I realize that many are going to go through some serious uncomfortable things and have to learn a new way to live, all of us. With that will come a realigning of values and what is important, God can't do it any other way. It will also bring much divisions as well, but do we not take the good with the bad that God gives us? He is provoking his BODY to maturity so that we are prepared for marriage. We need to understand these things.

Though he slays me and take me through, yet will I trust him. You need to ask God to get you to that point in life. You should be wanting to get to place where you do not love your own life even unto death if God required it of you.

Quote from: rosered on July 27, 2009, 05:23:21 AM

 Amen  Sis ,

there is the fruits   worthy of  repentace and than there is the firstfruits to God though His Holy Spirit !


Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,


and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you,


That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.



 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees:


every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  



Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.  


 I do see what you are saying  :HeartThrob:

Amen sis..We must produce fruit or he will cut is down and throw in the fire. The Lake of Fire is not just for the unbeliever, but the fearful. I would rather be refined right here than having to go there.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 05:25:54 AM
"Those believers who spend their time worrying about a world government, the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, the European Union, communism, terrorists, conspiracies, or any other earthly thing will have no solace or security, but will find themselves in constant fear and dread, as Jesus forewarned, "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on THE EARTH" (Lk. 21:26).  Take note that the fearful are among those who have their part in the lake of fire! (Rev. 21:8), for these have not learned to dwell in the secret place of the most High, under the shadow of the Almighty; they have remained inhabiters of the earth." — Preston Eby, FROM THE CANDLESTICK TO THE THRONE, Part 92

You are telling the truth...Yes Lord...

Quote from: jabcat on July 27, 2009, 08:08:24 AM
Hi Sparrow.  I said this earlier for my  :2c:, and you said that's pretty much how you see it too.

Quote jabcat - "What am I doing to prepare?  Reading His Word, praying, trusting in Him...while at the same time making some physical preparations for self and family.  Seems responsible...but still knowing that if we were unable to provide for a single silver dime or a gallon of clean water, God would provide all we needed.   As I see it, bottom line...God's in control, He will protect us either on this side of the grave or especially on the other side...isn't that [or His "final" glorious return] where, after all, the mortal takes on the immortal? "

Yes I've put a few physical basics aside.  Not to totally depend on that stuff, because only in God do we really have any security and He's our only source of hope and meeting of our needs; but He has given us some "sense" as well  :dontknow:.   I see it kind'a like, don't overdo it, God will take care of His own.  But if I knew a plane was about to crash on my house, I'd get out of it and try and drag anyone else who might be in it along with me   :dontknow:.

Amen..Pretty much...We have to be Spirit lead in all things. I can't tell someone what to do or how to prepare in the natural, I really can't. God is leading some different ways.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 27, 2009, 06:36:11 AM
I do the same SPOKENFOR.

I sleep with Him, wake with Him.
At the store, He told me: "David, it's about the people, not the food; Spread good cheer!"
I could go on and on, but...
Point being is it's all about His life, on earth, expressed through the Manifested Sons of God!

Point being is it's all about His life, on earth, expressed through the Manifested Sons of God!

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Tell me about it...he has become the air I breathe and song I sing...

I understand exactly what you mean about it is not about the food. Everything we do is always about 'us' touching people lives and making them a bit more better just because we were around. It is never about the job, the food, the anything. It is always about people and ministering..even if it is a 'smile'.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The WRITTEN word of God is active, the Rhema Word of God is living and active and SHARP! JESUS the Word made FLESH is living and active.... IT is not all suppose to "feel good", who told you that lie? We need to get that revelation and quick. Wanting to feel good all the time is what is going to cause many to fall away and what causes it even now today. 

Wanting our ears always tickled and flesh under intense sensations and pleasure at whatever cost is causing us to be just where we are today, A MESS for the most part in this country. An absolute mess. Even the the believers, we don't stand out hardly from the world.

Division of the 'soul and spirit' is what God is out to accomplish. The soul craves for what it can see, smell, taste, touch that brings fleshly gratification one way or another...God is calling us to put our 'soulish desires'to absolute rest. When are are consumed and chasing after only soulish desires, your SPIRIT man is drowned-out and you can't hear or sense God the way he wants. You can't hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying to the Churches because your Soul takes the number one place over your Spirit. Mind you, there is nothing wrong with soulish desires, for it is because of that you make decisions everyday and that we have come to where we are in many ways now.BUT, there is a time that you learn to walk not by the soul ( flesh/emotions), but by the SPIRIT of God in ALL things. This is the maturing of the Saints, this is where you are becoming sons of God. Those who are lead of the Spirit of God are called sons of God.

The earth is awaiting for those sons of God to come forth and appear. When you have reached that level of maturity, God can REALLY USE YOU THEN.  :thumbsup: Let us get there Saints.

We are SOULS that have a SPIRITS and our bodies are temples of the "Holy Spirit" to dwell. He can't dwell in most of us, He is silenced and drowned out can't be heard and quenched by us always feeding into our souls desires. ( fleshly desires )

Mark 8:36
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? I NOW understand what this scripture means.

Most of us at one time interpreted it as ET, and many still do today. It does not have anything with your soul going to eternal torment. For it is our SPIRIT that must be born-again, not our souls. Our souls must be silenced when the SPIRIT is speaking and moving. Our souls will lie to us and confuse us. It is where our emotions also come from. We are not called to live by emotions and feelings. People make too many emotional decisions based on how they feel or want to feel.

That is why we must began to read the Gospels of Jesus and pray for revelation, We need a revelation of what it means to be a "Christian" a "Follower of Christ", and the "Mind of Christ" the average church can not even preach what it is , for they themselves have silenced the Holy Spirit and are operating on a Soulish level where the world operates. The Holy Spirit has been quenched. God will not compete with flesh forever.

We are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. If you are not transformed in the MIND, you can not understand the deeper things of God. You will remain at a carnal level ( fleshly soul level ), never growing into SPIRITUAL maturity and God did not send his Son to die to leave us as we are.

Oh yes, he loves us as we are, but he loves us tooooooo much to leave us the way we are.

I told the Lord I loved him and he told me like Peter, "If you love me, feed my sheep". I said Lord I will feed your sheep even if it kills me and I am not liked and scorned and mocked. I will feed your sheep because I love you.  :HeartThrob:

OK, so any kind of information about the real world makes one fearful.  Isn't that how we got here in the first place?  No one has any clue what is going on and when someone tries to tell them, they get 'fearful'  and say,  fear is bad, go away.

Looks like the same old story to me.

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

God's sons are warriors.  A few giants don't scare them half to death.  They scout and then they give a good report.

30And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.

--Numbers 13


So I wait for those who are not afraid of a few giants and are willing and able to possess the land of milk and honey, because it's right there on the horizon and the giants will turn and run when God's sons appear.



"Caleb"
H3612
כּלב
kâlêb
kaw-labe'
Perhaps a form of H3611, or else from the same root in the sense of forcible; Caleb, the name of three Israelites: - Caleb.

Amen Molly!......Amen! Tell it...

Quote from: Molly on July 27, 2009, 12:07:33 PM
OK, so any kind of information about the real world makes one fearful. 

Nope, that's not what's happening, it is providing what people believe is valid information and aligning it with end times nonsense.

Talk about the world all you like, talk about what your doing about it, offer solutions, that's great.

But when someone starts making parallels of current events talking about the coming of God's judgments soon, yep, that fear mongering whether you admit it or not.


They have been coming soon for 33 years of my life.  Yawn, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hasn't done anyone any good.

QuoteThey have been coming soon for 33 years of my life.  Yawn, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hasn't done anyone any good.

well, wake up and answer me this.  If there are technologies which have been co-opted by a small group of people, technologies which would give free energy, and therefore low cost food, supplies, and everything else to the people of the world--do you think that is worth doing something about?

And, if those same people who control these technologies could possibly be behind the wars, death, and destruction in the world, and a party to the threats which we are receiving now, do you think that would be worth doing something about?

Jeremiah prophesied to Judah for decades.  Did it finally happen just like he said it would?  Yes.

They had to wake up then, but it was too late.

Well Molly, for one, I am all about working on a solution if a problem exists and you can demand that one does in your specific web link postings, but that isn't what I am talking about necessarily.


First, if the modern current events are in a parallel with the so called truth of how Christian theology has interpreted how the end times will play out,  then stopping it is about as futile as stopping Jesus crucifixion.  So in that perspective, what actually can be done?   Your gonna try to stop Jesus second coming?  Really?  Good luck with that.


On the other hand, indeed if we see a problem, perhaps  then lets deal with a solution.  If the primary teachings on prayer in christianity are correct, then they'd of already solved many issues through prayer, but since it's not,  millions of Christians are on their knees praying instead of getting up off their asses and helping their neighbor.

That would create a snowball effect that would sweep the world, but while I get told by many Christians that I should be in church and praying I am out in this world looking for people to help.   That's not to make myself better it is to show the ridiculousness of all this end times crap. 

Yeah, do something,  go on, go do it already.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 28, 2009, 01:23:10 AM
I am out in this world looking for people to help. 

"In every moment that passes, there is an opportunity."

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 27, 2009, 09:57:54 AM

Amen sis..We must produce fruit or he will cut is down and throw in the fire. The Lake of Fire is not just for the unbeliever, but the fearful. I would rather be refined right here than having to go there.

SF, it may be a little worn out discussion for some (not that the tired-of-hearing-about-it really know...they're just tired of talking about it  :laughing7:), but I still ponder it myself;  in this scenario as you mention above, what do you see as being the Lake of Fire?  What (or Who) does it look like to you?  Literal, spiritual, where, when, how?  (Knowing that ET says it's hell, ya know).

James.

Quote from: jabcat on July 28, 2009, 08:05:59 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 27, 2009, 09:57:54 AM

Amen sis..We must produce fruit or he will cut is down and throw in the fire. The Lake of Fire is not just for the unbeliever, but the fearful. I would rather be refined right here than having to go there.

SF, it may be a little worn out discussion for some (not that the tired-of-hearing-about-it really know...they're just tired of talking about it  :laughing7:), but I still ponder it myself;  in this scenario as you mention above, what do you see as being the Lake of Fire?  What (or Who) does it look like to you?  Literal, spiritual, where, when, how?  (Knowing that ET says it's hell, ya know).

James.

:laughing7:

Well, never for me Jab.. I am still learning and growing and I never tire of it, ...  :cloud9: .....

Good question....sometimes I see it is as God himself being that he is an all consuming fire. Some kind of way in my mind I can picture the Lake as a piece of the all-consuming, all powerful,  Omniscient God. I don't picture it burning 1000 flames everywhere anymore.  :mblush:

But, I believe it will be very intense and a painful experience. I still can't get my mind around how exactly it will be.  :dontknow:

It could be part literal and spiritual at the same time  ...........that is something I do not think God is going to allow us to fully comprehend in this life, I really do not believe so, then again I could be wrong   :msealed: ..He just may... We can come up with our own ideas of what it is...but,,,,,,,.....I think they are just that, ideas...

QuoteGod himself being that he is an all consuming fire

that is  exactly the way I see it too ! :icon_flower:



Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God [is] a consuming fire, [even] a jealous God. 
Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God [is] he which goeth over before thee; [as] a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. 
Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.   


:HeartThrob:

I have been talking with the Lord to show me more things as of the coming days. It is as if he only shows me bits and pieces at times. Sometimes things are not clear, but I know when he has answered a specific prayer for a specific answer.

He has been saying, "Soon and Suddenly" is all he has been showing me for the most part, soon and Suddenly we will be in hard times in this country. I now feel he has given me the answer as to what will exactly cause this to happen. Most people I have come across have said how can anything so huge and suddenly happen here to cause us to go into lack the way I was describing, I was not even totally sure at one time..I just knew it was around the corner.

Lack of Oil. is going to be the downfall. This is how America will begin to lose her Super-Power status.

If we are paying attention to what is going on in the middle East, God is giving us signs there also. I begin to have a sense that "Israel" would somehow be in the picture, but could not see that clear either.

I remember just saying a few weeks ago to someone that I believed it will Oil that will be the downfall of America, it was something I really felt but did not know for sure at the time how it would exactly happen or how soon. When I think back to it, the Lord was showing me then but it was no confirmation exactly. The Lord did not allow me to put this this together with what he was showing me because I do not believe it was time till today.

When Israel attacks the Iranian nuclear facility, it will be lights off for America. It is getting to that point.

Our Ark is Christ.

Be watchful and prayerful people..God woke me up out of my sleep to come and write this and I take it seriously.

I like to hit snooze.

The Arabian nations are going to cut off the oil supply in this country soon, but go back to sleep.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 29, 2009, 02:37:29 AM
The Arabian nations are going to cut off the oil supply in this country soon, but go back to sleep.

Sounds like you have a solution,  so do you have any specific instructions for me, to give me a reason to stay awake?

Agreeing with you is not enough, lets go do something.   Your the one getting the information from God.   So lets get to work.   Details on what to do please.

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 29, 2009, 03:01:21 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 29, 2009, 02:37:29 AM
The Arabian nations are going to cut off the oil supply in this country soon, but go back to sleep.

Sounds like you have a solution,  so do you have any specific instructions for me, to give me a reason to stay awake?

Agreeing with you is not enough, lets go do something.   Your the one getting the information from God.   So lets get to work.   Details on what to do please.

Perhaps, it is your sarcasm that asked for mine.  The only answer I know for ANYTHING is Jesus Christ. I will continue to post as I feel lead because perhaps something I say is for someone, even if it is not you.

So, we can agree to disagree to keep things cool ok?

Thank You very much... 

This is how I know:

Ephesians 6:10-18 (Young's Literal Translation)

10As to the rest, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might;

11put on the whole armour of God, for your being able to stand against the wiles of the devil,

12because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;

13because of this take ye up the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to resist in the day of the evil, and all things having done -- to stand.

14Stand, therefore, having your loins girt about in truth, and having put on the breastplate of the righteousness,

15and having the feet shod in the preparation of the good-news of the peace;

16above all, having taken up the shield of the faith, in which ye shall be able all the fiery darts of the evil one to quench,

17and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of God,

18through all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the Spirit, and in regard to this same, watching in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints --

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 29, 2009, 03:05:44 AM

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 29, 2009, 03:01:21 AM

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 29, 2009, 02:37:29 AM
The Arabian nations are going to cut off the oil supply in this country soon, but go back to sleep.

Sounds like you have a solution,  so do you have any specific instructions for me, to give me a reason to stay awake?

Agreeing with you is not enough, lets go do something.   Your the one getting the information from God.   So lets get to work.   Details on what to do please.

Perhaps, it is your sarcasm that asked for mine.  The only answer I know for ANYTHING is Jesus Christ. I will continue to post as I feel lead because perhaps something I say is for someone, even if it is not you.

No really, I'm asking you what to do.

Quote from: SPOKENFOR on July 29, 2009, 02:37:29 AM
The Arabian nations are going to cut off the oil supply in this country soon, but go back to sleep.

That is very possible, but maybe just for the winter months when most crucially needed.
They need our money, I doubt if this would be long term.  :dontknow:

I wonder what would happen. War is one of the options.
Or a rise of alternative energy. Then the Arab countries overplayed their hand and quickly because 3rd world nations.

BUY GOLD!

Quote from: PaulNo really, I'm asking you what to do.

  The medical, socio-political, and world banking system is controlled by the very groups that are making us all sick. ..The only way out of the messes we have created is an informed, educated, participatory, democracy, for, by, and of the people. I hope to inspire citizens to re-claim what rightfully belongs to the people – their Nationhood, inalienable rights, Sovereignty, and control of the issuance and control of the credit and currency of the nation. If the people do not control these critical nodes, then usury, once in control will wreck havoc on every nation – in health, wealth, fundamental rights and freedoms.

--Dr. Andrew Moulden, MD, Ph.D

I have no real trust in gold either in a very deep resession.
Sure it has value but who wants it. Gold is just worthless junk found in the ground. Somehow it got value attached to it.
Gold only represents value if there are buyers for it.
Lots and lots of canned food looks the best option to me.
I rather eat a can of beans than watching my shiney bar of gold.

You can eat your can of beans with my silver spoon (14 dollars an ounce now).  :Sparkletooth:

Then I get blue blood.
Dunno if that term is know in the US. I means royal blood.

I meant from HIM.
Not the market!

Hmmm... that was telling.

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 29, 2009, 09:46:02 AM
Then I get blue blood.
Dunno if that term is know in the US. I means royal blood.

yeah it's known.  lol We didn't just fall off the turnip truck here.  Don't know if that term is known in Denmark.

It's not falling of a turnip truck Molly.
Not every country in the world has the sayings....
Dunno about Denmark.

Quote from: Molly on July 29, 2009, 09:27:18 AM

Quote from: PaulNo really, I'm asking you what to do.

  The medical, socio-political, and world banking system is controlled by the very groups that are making us all sick. ..The only way out of the messes we have created is an informed, educated, participatory, democracy, for, by, and of the people. I hope to inspire citizens to re-claim what rightfully belongs to the people – their Nationhood, inalienable rights, Sovereignty, and control of the issuance and control of the credit and currency of the nation. If the people do not control these critical nodes, then usury, once in control will wreck havoc on every nation – in health, wealth, fundamental rights and freedoms.

--Dr. Andrew Moulden, MD, Ph.D

Dr. Andrew Moulden rocks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGYJeI_5lEM

Quote from: Molly on July 29, 2009, 09:27:18 AM

Quote from: PaulNo really, I'm asking you what to do.

  The medical, socio-political, and world banking system is controlled by the very groups that are making us all sick. ..The only way out of the messes we have created is an informed, educated, participatory, democracy, for, by, and of the people. I hope to inspire citizens to re-claim what rightfully belongs to the people – their Nationhood, inalienable rights, Sovereignty, and control of the issuance and control of the credit and currency of the nation. If the people do not control these critical nodes, then usury, once in control will wreck havoc on every nation – in health, wealth, fundamental rights and freedoms.

--Dr. Andrew Moulden, MD, Ph.D

So, when are we taking the people making us sick to court? 

http://www.ktradionetwork.com/2009/07/24/makers-of-swine-flu-vaccine-cant-be-sued/

QuoteMakers of Swine Flu Vaccine Can't Be Sued

WHO sued
http://countusout.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/the-greatest-crime-in-the-history-of-humanity-president-obama-named-as-a-defendant/

These clowns have forgotten how to play the game of chess.

They've forgotten that the lowly pawn can become the most powerful piece on the board.

BEHOLD THE PAWN

http://www.doughroller.net/investing/behold-the-power-of-the-pawn/

QuoteSo, when are we taking the people making us sick to court? 

People are already doing it, and winning.

Quote from: Molly on July 30, 2009, 05:37:57 AM
These clowns have forgotten how to play the game of chess.

They've forgotten that the lowly pawn can become the most powerful piece on the board.

BEHOLD THE PAWN

http://www.doughroller.net/investing/behold-the-power-of-the-pawn/

QuoteSo, when are we taking the people making us sick to court? 

People are already doing it, and winning.

ok, so what do we need to brace ourselves for?

Quoteok, so what do we need to brace ourselves for?

Did you watch all 3 videos that firstborn just posted on andrew moulden?

He explains it very well.  We are fighting a silent war, so silent most don't even know about it.  Satan is still deceiving the whole world.  That can only happen if people have not the mind of Christ, but the mind of satan.

Brace yourself because the enemy will continue to unmask himself in the most unpleasant of ways.

Watch those videos.

Quote from: Molly on July 30, 2009, 04:05:44 PM

Quoteok, so what do we need to brace ourselves for?

Did you watch all 3 videos that firstborn just posted on andrew moulden?

He explains it very well.  We are fighting a silent war, so silent most don't even know about it.  Satan is still deceiving the whole world.  That can only happen if people have not the mind of Christ, but the mind of satan.

Brace yourself because the enemy will continue to unmask himself in the most unpleasant of ways.

Watch those videos.

He's been doing that to me all my life,  you can brace yourself,  I'll get up and live.

QuoteHe's been doing that to me all my life,  you can brace yourself,  I'll get up and live.

So you will not and did not watch the videos?  Then you are just playing games with me.

Quote from: Molly on July 30, 2009, 04:16:06 PM
Then you are just playing games with me.

Must be the famous female intuition that you noticed that so quickly :laughing7:

Quote from: Molly on July 30, 2009, 04:16:06 PM

QuoteHe's been doing that to me all my life,  you can brace yourself,  I'll get up and live.

So you will not and did not watch the videos?  Then you are just playing games with me.

Nope, won't watch the videos, if I catered to everyone who posts a weblink or a video to make their point I'd lose my job and never get anything useful done.

I live life and do what I can do.

There are no games other than the ones people play with themselves.

QuoteNope, won't watch the videos

These videos are worth your time, if you want your questions answered.

The world sees us as Goliath, but we are not Goliath.  More like Gulliver, who wakes up to find himself tied down by Lilliputians with thousands of tiny threads.

Quote from: Molly on July 30, 2009, 04:33:17 PM

QuoteNope, won't watch the videos

These videos are worth your time, if you want your questions answered.

The world sees us as Goliath, but we are not Goliath.  More like Gulliver, who wakes up to find himself tied down by Lilliputians with thousands of tiny threads.

Yeah, until the Lilliputians get attacked then they want goliath to fix it.

Spoken For - I think you are correct.   The hypocrites are afraid and they are armed.  And the threshing floor reveals the condition of our hearts.   I'm a very emotional person and feel that I could easily be like the weeping prophet.  That does not mean my faith has failed.   Jesus went to the cross.  We are going there with him.

Peace -
Anne

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 22, 2009, 10:15:09 PM
Things can go very quickly. Just look how sudden/fast the USSR collapsed

It's like that when a woman gives birth - the labor pains are long and increasing to the point of seeming unbearable - then suddenly, the baby is coming and there is no slowing it down.    I've done it four times - so I understand this concept.

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on July 30, 2009, 07:30:10 PM
It's like that when a woman gives birth - the labor pains are long and increasing

One of the reasons I never want kids. Can't stand the woman I love suffering when I can't help.
Would be kinda empty on this planet if everyone had the same opinion.... :laughing7:

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 30, 2009, 07:40:27 PM

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on July 30, 2009, 07:30:10 PM
It's like that when a woman gives birth - the labor pains are long and increasing

One of the reasons I never want kids. Can't stand the woman I love suffering when I can't help.
Would be kinda empty on this planet if everyone had the same opinion.... :laughing7:

Yikes.  Can't you see all those little white chicklings taking their first wings to flight?  Don't worry about the women, we're strong.

3Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

4As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

5Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

--Psa 127