A consuming fire

[WhiteWings]

Hades is both the name of the Greek god and his empire. The underworld.
Death is indeed the absence of life but also the Abaddon angel of death. (The destroyer)
I would even say Hades is the Greek version of Abaddon. Even exactly the very same 'person'.
2 cherubim angels rebelled against God. The one we usually call satan and Abaddon. Both are defeated by God.

So it seems that all the Greek pagan mythology was just used to explain a Hebrew concept.
So yeah hades is sheol.
Another bit of proof is Gen 37:35
Look at a Hebrew text and you see grave is translated from sheol.
Then take a LXX, a Greek translation by ancient Jews who lived before Jesus.
You see the word Hades.
So even if Hades currently means something else the Jewish scholars had the opinion hades=sheol.
Please note that NOT every word translated as grave in the OT is from the Hebrew sheol.

I hope that answers your question (at least partly).

[Jock]

That's cool WW. Thanks for clearing that up.

Jock..

[Jock]

Zender on the second death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUWu_kd5GRs

[Jock]

WW. If Sheol is not always the grave in the OT, then what else is it?

Thanks for bearing with me  :Chinscratch:

Jock

[Tom]

WW. If Sheol is not always the grave in the OT, then what else is it?

Thanks for bearing with me  :Chinscratch:

Jock

The Hebrew "Sheol" corresponds to the Greek "hades," literally "unseen," the state of dead souls.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[Jock]

Thanks Tom.  :gimmefive:

Jock

[WhiteWings]

WW. If Sheol is not always the grave in the OT, then what else is it?

Thanks for bearing with me  :Chinscratch:

Jock

The other way arround Jock.

Gen 35:20 And Jacob set a pillar on her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel's grave to this day.

Grave=
  /  קבוּרה
qebûrâh / 
BDB Definition:
1) grave, burial, burial site
1a) grave
1b) burial
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: passive participle of H6912
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1984b


Gen 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave to my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.

Grave=
  /  שׁאול
she'ôl
BDB Definition:
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
1a) the underworld
1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
1b1) place of no return
1b2) without praise of God
1b3) wicked sent there for punishment
1b4) righteous not abandoned to it
1b5) of the place of exile (figuratively)
1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H7592
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2303c

[WhiteWings]

And of course quite often sheol is translated as hell

Prov 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

[Jock]

So, when a person dies, they sleep, yeah?

[WhiteWings]

I really don't know Jock.
Reading the OT all is clear. Sleep.
But I can imagine/accept Jesus changed all that. (dreams of people on this forum confirm that)
Still the NT speaks about dying and resurrections.

:Chinscratch: :dontknow: :dunno2:

[JulieTang84]

So, when a person dies, they sleep, yeah?

Nothing is dead to Father. "Where art thou victory now, death"

I have forgotten the vs.

Love Julie :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

So, when a person dies, they sleep, yeah?

Death is like sleep. The dead are reposing. As far as their consciousness is concerned, from the moment they die, the very next thing they will know is that they are alive again regardless of how long they have been dead. There is no consciousness in death.

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

"11 He said these things, and after this He is saying to them, "Lazarus, our friend, has found repose, but I am going that I should be awakening him out of sleep."
12 The disciples, then, said to Him, "Lord, if he has repose, he shall be saved."
13 Now Jesus had made a declaration concerning his death, yet they suppose that He is saying it concerning the repose of sleep.
14 Jesus, then, said to them with boldness then, "Lazarus died."" (John 11:11-14)

"13 Now we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are reposing, lest you may sorrow according as the rest, also, who have no expectation.
14 For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him.
15 For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose,
16 for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first.
17 Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.
18 So that, console one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

[Jock]

Cool, Tom

The dead have no sense of time either.
thanks to all who have contributed.

Jock  :banana:

[rosered]

So, when a person dies, they sleep, yeah?

Hi Jock ,  For me ,this is where everyone has a differnt ''faith'' belief  , even in UR    it varies
  the 99 cent question  of the hour
  and its good you dig deeper !!
  for me  in Adam all die  ,  and its even deeper  in the sense  , I believe we are sleeping  in Adam , but in Christ  we are alive
  and the big thing is when does this happen ?     
what are the clear cut   changes when one is changed  from death to life
   for me   , and just my opinion  ,   when the  ones sleep in Jesus  , its the REST  ,  that the Lord God speaks of  , and the rest is from your labours 
  and this is when   JESUS IS ALIVE AND WELL  and now doing the works  , the labour of Love
  many     holy ones  fell asleep  in  Jesus , Daniel is a big clue in Daniel 12 
and Stephen  , are they dead ? physically , yes   in Adam all die , but they  are ALIVE IN CHRIST   to me
  Jesus is the  reward for obedience   to the will of God    to me right now 
Him being the ressurection and the LIFE
   being  IN  the body of Christ , is more than just a idea   or concept  , its the SPIRIT OF LIFE and the moving and being  that is ALIVE to the Father right now only ...   
  Paul said it best when he said , in the body or out of the  body I do not know  , but one  man 14 years ago    experienced the change in the twinkling of an eye and what   was that ? 
  was He is the Body of Christ  ALIVE  or out of the physical body of death ?  2 Cor 12

  he was taken to the 3rd heaven / in the presence of God   and shown  a mystery  , that  words were heard that was unlawful/   not in human terms  to speak about  ,  what  is considered unlawful ?
its   to me  , the   work of the Holy Spirit  / being the Father and Son   , doing the living works  that no man can do !

  so to me we are spiritually dead  , till the Lord come to rouse us up into  a spiritual life   by the seed / Word of God and His  Holy Spirit
I was dead and now I am alive , was it me who got to live  by my own   choice ? 
I say No , its all to the GLORY OF GOD !!   I am thankful to the Lord God almighty   ,  for  Life and   death 
I had to die   in the sense    of life had no meaning/vanity , till the Lord come to show me    LIFE IN HIM is where all will come to eventually  , this is my hope in CHRIST  to the glory of the Father 
  there is no glory in  man , but  being found in Christ /hid in HIM , His body is the true Church / Woman whom helps Him  pro create   new creatures in Christ ,  for me any how

  Mary was a chaste virgin , Paul was cleansing the minds of those being prepared  for the  presence of   the Holy Spirit  to concieve  , Father and Son , the Word of Truth/seed and Spirit of ALL LIFE     to dwell in     , for me this happens often and  a now[present ]  thing .
we are awakened out of sleep in Adam  ,to be  made alive unto Christ /   the annointing .
Just some things to consider and search them out for yourself   , many of these things are settled in me   now   grounded    and not easily  shaken  , but were not for many years

[Tom]

The problem is the church teaches folks don't really die because they simply pass from this life to the next in which they're either strumming harps in heaven or being tortured alive in hell fire forever.

Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.

"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying'" (Genesis 3:4)

Unless death is understood in its proper context, there was no resurrection, and Christ did not die to be roused from the dead by the Father. That is the basis for our faith.

Here's what Julie was talking about.

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." (Matthew 22:32)

"32 Our Lord is proving the necessity of resurrection. Abraham and Isaac and Jacob are dead. God is the God of the dead, if they will not be raised. But He is not the God of the dead. The dead praise not the Lord (Ps.115:17). They know not anything (Ecc.9:5). In death there is no remembrance of Him (Ps.6:5). Apart from resurrection His saints are lost, our faith is vain, we are still in our sins (1Co.15:16-19). The dead have no God. He is the God of the living. There must be a resurrection-which was to be proved (Ex.3:6)." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 43)

[Jock]

Rose

Thank you for your wonderful contribution, I had the flag go up as I read. I have soooo much to ponder as everyone has written in!

Everyone has brought a portion of Bread (the body of Christ) to share

Have a great day, in Christ.

Jock.   :dsunny: 

[Jock]

Tom

Amen" good stuff  :iagree:

[rosered]

LOL
Thanks Jock , I just hope the flag  that went up was not a ''red one ''   ha ha 

I also enjoyed and agree with Toms above  post!!   good find   the Living DO praise God !  for they KNOW  salvation and grace is of the Lord  Our God !

   and this   verse helped  me 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

I know its the HOLY SPIRIT OF LIFE  , God is Spirit & truth  , Love , a consuming fire etc ..as they describe  His nature

[watchman1706]

The short answer to you question Jock is that hell and death are thrown into the LOF. IMO hell is referring to sheol and hades which describe the state of the body in the grave. So the work of death and the state of death are consumed.

As to the LOF itself. The dead sea is the natural manifestation of the LOF and the people of the day would have understood its reference when first spoken. The Revelations LOF is metaphorical as it says in verse one of revelations that the entire book signifies or is symbolic. It is a spiritual purging. It will be just as real, but the description is symbolic for our comprehension of a sorts.

Here's a great article on the history of the literal LOF.

http://www.remnantbiblestudies.com/article10_lake_of_fire_pt2.html

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[bushy]

A song I used to hear describes the fire very well.

Move a little closer where the fire's burning
Move a little closer where God makes His Man
Fear not the burning but yield unto it
Only the fire can purify within

[Jock]

Watchman

I am reading through that paper, whew, its long and I'm a slow reader, but I like it so far

Jock.

[Jock]

Bushy, that's cool, thanks for sending it.

:Peace2:

Jock

[marie glen]

hi! I believe "Our God is a consuming fire" consuming away all dross, all false.. He is Life and He is Perfection. (Im-perfection is the opposite of life.)

I believe the LOF is (the) second death which death is (again) nonlife.

And that's why "death and the grave are thrown into the LOF" ...nevermore.. nevermore.. gone.. not alive.. not existing / gone.

And is why "the beast" (big one/world beast/world body - rev 13:1-10, not 11-18) and the "false prophet"/teaching/theory (and the prophecy, the teaching/theory implies) which are thrown into the LOF at Christ's return are active institutions of man, not living persons or creatures, and they will be "gone" from the planet and universe.
                       :hiya: 

[marie glen]

But! I believe "all will be saved"!

That the 3 Autumn Holy Days prophecy the 3 major peaks of the long second advent of Jesus

Trumpets - Atonement (Day/Age of age-lasting wailing and kolasis) - Tabernacles when "all things are made new" and "death and the grave are thrown into the LOF" and "God now Tabernacles with man upon Earth"
              :smile:

[marie glen]

note: "will be tormented aion and aion" is only said in Rev 20:10 which occurs before the Great White Throne Judgment.. and is said of the big (/world?) beast/body? and the false prophet(/teaching) and the devil who decieved..