Spirit and?

[micah7:9]

Let me see if this can come together. Spirit= of God... God is Spirit Joh 4:24  God is Spirit;
Im trying to start a topic that seperates what a soul is and a body is, and this is what I come to face with.
Lev 21:11  Neither shall he go in to any deadH4191=mûth(to die)
H5315  body,=nephesh(a breathing creature),
The body is BETH a container; it is the vessel that contains the living creature, a creature/human being that could in no way get past the atom and its first twinkle with out the SPIRIT OF GOD! If the Spirit of God does not move, enlighten, energize, something, anything, then that house or vessel, or container could not CAN NOT go forth, so it is with us the human being, should GOD  quit putting His Energy(Spirit) into vessels of clay..that vessel would not have a soul, it would lay dormant, useless, void, WITHOUT energy, usless, sorry. Praise God! Praise God!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Micah, you can believe what you want, but if you miss this vital precept that is all through the bible from Genesis to Revelation, you have come to a stumbling block..... :2c:

[micah7:9]

Micah, you can believe what you want, but if you miss this vital precept that is all through the bible from Genesis to Revelation, you have come to a stumbling block..... 
"this vital precept"
What precept is this vital precept?
AND I do not wish or desire to believe what I want, I desire the spirit and truth of His WORD. And then, and well, just what is it that I believe,"as I want?" What are you telling me anyway? What is the "vital precept," that is all through Genesis to Revelation?
Yes...I have come to a stumbling block, please help. Thank You.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[micah7:9]

 "but if you miss this vital precept that is all through the bible from Genesis to Revelation"  part of a quote from Cardnial.

What is this vital precept? What is it that I have missed, a thread that weaves through Genesis to Revelation? I really want to know!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Soul and spirit as being separate things that are made to come into union. It's the same precept as when He separated the light (spirit) from the darkness (soul). He separates, to cleanse the motive of it, refines it, and brings it back into union with the Spirit. The resurrection IS the union of soul and Spirit. Blessings...

[LS]

Hi Micah, this is what I believe.

The body is simply a physical vessel that contains spiritual "me" for this earthly life. When we die, it returns to earth/dust.

Spirit is the breath of life that God breaths into all physical beings - it animates the earthly body and it returns to God when we die.

Soul is "ego," the individual, "me."  At judgment it is either utterly destroyed forevermore, or it enters into the presence of the LORD forevermore.

[thinktank]

Hi Micah, this is what I believe.

The body is simply a physical vessel that contains spiritual "me" for this earthly life. When we die, it returns to earth/dust.

Spirit is the breath of life that God breaths into all physical beings - it animates the earthly body and it returns to God when we die.

Soul is "ego," the individual, "me."  At judgment it is either utterly destroyed forevermore, or it enters into the presence of the LORD forevermore.

This is where I am also  :thumbsup: . But I am not sure what the difference is between an Adam type person who is spiritually dead, (let the dead bury their dead) and a spiritually alive person who is born again as a believer in Jesus christ. I think that the spiritually dead persons (all in Adam), go to sleep in the dust, have no knowledge of love or have no thought, and perhaps have a tiny spark of life in them that allows, e.g Samuel to temporary "wake up" and appear to Saul, but then goes back to sleep. But for the believer I think its possible that they may have a spiritual life with the lord, he that beliveth on me shall never die, beliveth thou this. To thief "today thou shall be with me in paradise"

Until their bodies are resurected with their spirit, which then becomes a soul, fit for heaven and are as the angels of heaven.

But I would not be suprised if even believers did not have any life until the resurection and that the spirit that goes to God is some kind of "Hard disk" that stores the persons experience, "works" and energies, which will be put back into the resurected body>soul at the last trumpet day of resurection.

Works being the things that the beliver did in jesus name, verily he that giveth a cup of water shall not lose his reward in heaven.

[WhiteWings]

I think that the spiritually dead persons (all in Adam), go to sleep in the dust, have no knowledge of love or have no thought,

Body=dust.

[LS]

Until their bodies are resurected with their spirit, which then becomes a soul, fit for heaven and are as the angels of heaven.

I'm not sure the bodies are ever resurrected - we are told we are given new spiritual bodies. 

[thinktank]

I think its Paul that say them that sleep in the dust shall awaken. Then this mortal shall put on immortality, the corrupt shall become uncorrupt.

If you look at Lazarus a shadow of the resurection, he comes forth by the voice of Jesus, and retains his grave clothes (flesh corruption) but is loosed from them. (incorruption)

Even after Lazarus was rotting, Jesus brought him back to life.

[LS]

I think its Paul that say them that sleep in the dust shall awaken. Then this mortal shall put on immortality, the corrupt shall become uncorrupt.

I don't know if that means the bodies will be resurrected, though.  I tend to think that believers are immediately taken to His presence when the body dies.  The soul of all others "sleeps" until the Matthew judgment of goats & sheep - when Paul says that those asleep in the dust shall awaken. Do the bodies need to be resurrected for this judgment? I don't think so, necessarily. 

I'm not hardcore in my beliefs here, though - I think we are told just enough to give us hope and comfort, but not too much so we don't get ahead of ourselves and so that we "keep our head in the game" here on earth, so to speak.

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Soul and spirit as being separate things that are made to come into union. It's the same precept as when He separated the light (spirit) from the darkness (soul). He separates, to cleanse the motive of it, refines it, and brings it back into union with the Spirit. The resurrection IS the union of soul and Spirit. Blessings...

Well Glory we agree, He seperates and then He RE-news, RE stores, RE generates.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :laughing7: :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Here is my thought, I believe that to much is put on the poor "soul" as being more that it is which is a living creature. I believe that when we talk about soul this and soul that, what we really mean is the self, the ego. I believe that this is what the dead old man was all about, that living creature-man-soul. It was the self, the ego, an awakened mind (the rib? of Gen. 2 thats just how I understand it)  that was tempted after seeing and desiring, that ate of the knowledge of good and bad. The soul-living creature is the body impowered by the spirit that carries the ego around.

The only place I find the combination of "soul of man" is Roman 2:9  (KJV) here are several translations that I contend render it properly.
Should all the translations read this way, I believe much would be cleared up about the fuzzy meaning of what a soul is.

9. pressure (affliction; trouble.; tribulation) and squeezed narrowness (tight restriction; distress; anguish) upon every soul of mankind which is persistently in himself working down and effecting the bad (the worthless; the evil; the injurious; the bad situation; the worthless quality; the malicious intent) -- both of a Jew, first, and also of a Greek (one of the Hellenist culture); (Johnathan Mitchell)

Rom 2:9 And tribulation and anguish [will be] to every man that doeth evil; to the Jews first, and also to the Gentiles: (Murdock 1851)
rdock 1851
Rom 2:9 crushing distress and anguish, every human soul of them that actually does what is wrong—the Jew first, and the Greek also (Goodspeed)
oodspeed
Rom 2:9 will fall upon every human being who persists in wrong-doing—upon the Jew first, but also upon the Greek. ( Malan)
alan
Rom 2:9 and affliction and distress, upon every man who worketh evils; to Jihudoyee first, and to Aramoyee;  ( Etheridge)
eridge
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[micah7:9]

Is there something in these two verses that speak of a seperating? Or am I seeing nothing? The word FIRE jumps out at me!

Heb 4:12  for the reckoning of God is living, and working, and sharp above every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart;

Mat 10:28  `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

[WhiteWings]

Micah, to simplify things for you, the Jews believe that we have an animal soul and a human soul. :icon_jokercolor:


Good night  :lazy: :snor:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:   :laughing7:

[thinktank]

Is there something in these two verses that speak of a seperating? Or am I seeing nothing? The word FIRE jumps out at me!

Heb 4:12  for the reckoning of God is living, and working, and sharp above every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart;

Mat 10:28  `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

To me since the soul is a living creature, then destroying this soul in gehenna means that God will not give the soul a resurection. For unlike man who can kill the body, but then don't have any more power. But God on the other hand has power to raise people from the dead and if "he" alone has this power, then respect this person called God, for he will have mercy on whom he have mercy.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, He says to fear Him who hath the power to kill both body AND soul in Gehenna.....being put to death is not a bad thing if you lay your life down, though. Blessings...

[thinktank]

There is a part in the book of revelation where , there are souls under the altar, there must be a mistranslation or perhaps, everyone who is martyred will be resurected immiediately. :dontknow:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's not a mistranslation. Back up a chapter and you see these are those that are REDEEMED from every nation, kindred, tribe, ect. Those are men who laid their souls on the altar, making of themselves a living sacrifice.

The altar had a grate; the only way under it was to become as ashes/consumed. For ashes He gives us beauty, the beauty of Christ. We "tie" our souls, to the 4 corners of the altar, which has horns on it, tied down with cords of love that cannot be broken. Paul calls this our reasonable service. Blessings....

[thinktank]

:cloud9: It's not a mistranslation. Back up a chapter and you see these are those that are REDEEMED from every nation, kindred, tribe, ect. Those are men who laid their souls on the altar, making of themselves a living sacrifice.

The altar had a grate; the only way under it was to become as ashes/consumed. For ashes He gives us beauty, the beauty of Christ. We "tie" our souls, to the 4 corners of the altar, which has horns on it, tied down with cords of love that cannot be broken. Paul calls this our reasonable service. Blessings....

ok, it says these souls cried with a voice?  Are these souls real people? or is it symbolic?

What I don't understand is that Abel when he died, it was his blood that cried out, but in Revelation, these souls are crying out?
I thought it might either be their spirits crying or that their souls were resurected after martyrdom.?

[micah7:9]

Lev 17:11  for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: It's not a mistranslation. Back up a chapter and you see these are those that are REDEEMED from every nation, kindred, tribe, ect. Those are men who laid their souls on the altar, making of themselves a living sacrifice.

The altar had a grate; the only way under it was to become as ashes/consumed. For ashes He gives us beauty, the beauty of Christ. We "tie" our souls, to the 4 corners of the altar, which has horns on it, tied down with cords of love that cannot be broken. Paul calls this our reasonable service. Blessings....

ok, it says these souls cried with a voice?  Are these souls real people? or is it symbolic?

What I don't understand is that Abel when he died, it was his blood that cried out, but in Revelation, these souls are crying out?
I thought it might either be their spirits crying or that their souls were resurected after martyrdom.?

:cloud9: I think the difference is in the fact that these were on that altar willingly, making of themselves a living sacrifice; they said how long oh Lord before our brethren will be killed as we were.

This is not the cry of vengence like Abel, but rather of wanting their brethren to experience death to self on the cross/altar, like they did, which is basically wanting them to experience the kingdom.

Abel's blood cried out from the ground because that's where his soul was because he didn't have a revelation of Christ yet, and he was murdered. The "life" in the blood of carnal man IS the soul.

So without the revelation of Christ, he was "justified" in wanting vengence on his killer, which is an awareness of law and not grace. But with the blood of Christ, which is Spirit, it speaks of better things. To speak is to give testimony, or prophesy, as a witness. Blessings...

[thinktank]

That's a great reply card, thank you. But as to how the souls are in heaven is still a mystery. I think that they would be resurected, but the book says, the resurection happened when the sickle is placed and the earth was reaped, corresponding to the harvest of the wheat and the tares at the end of the age.