the soul

[micah7:9]

Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV
Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living
creature. YLT
I understand this to mean that a "soul..living creature" is a count of one.  As in,  there were 900 souls lost.  Today when I get
into a conversation, the soul no longer is a count of one, but and entity. We have expressions like,  "immortal soul," and the  soul does not die
when the body dies.
Am I in error to believe that that without  body and spirit, there is no soul?

Rotherham's Emphasized Bible appendix," One cannot but regret the impossibility of making our English word "soul" express just as much as is conveyed by the Greek word psuche and the Hebrew word nephesh. The translator may confess that after a determined endeavour  to render the latter term uniformly "soul" through out the the O.T., he was reluctanly constrained to give up the attempt. When in the book of Esther, it came in at the climax that the Jews were permitted "to stand for their soul," (nephesh- Est. viii. 11) this example proved the  turning point of the scale and "life" was promptly substituted. It certainly maybe worth enquiry, how it comes about that the sacred originals so freely use a concrete word where we sorely feel our need of employing our abstraction term "life"; and that this is so, notwithstanding the exsistance of  "chayah" in the Hebrew and "zoe" in the Greek, more exactly answering (as it might have seemed) to the English word "life."  But the fact of stubborn diversity of usage above indicated remains, and it appears necessary to allow "life" to stand in a respectable minority of instances for "nephesh and psuche."  In this edition, therefore, "life" has been admitted into a certain class of passages, of which Matt xvi. 25,26 maybe named as an example."

[Nathan]

For me, my soul is the personality of my spirit.  The general understanding is your soul is a combination of your mind, will and emotions . . .to me, that's my personality.  So when I die, my body returns back to the earth but my spirit still has a personality . . .it was God given.  The death of the body actually releases the constraints of the flesh and it releases our spirit/soul to exist without limitations of this realm.  But to me, my soul is the personal expression of my spirit.

[micah7:9]

So then we have a soul, rather than being a soul?
So Gen. 2:7 ought to read
"... breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man,"  ...... received a soul (a personality for his spirit.?

[WhiteWings]

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/soul-and-spirit.htm

[Nathan]

It's no wonder that we can't put it into any kind of clarity when you see the dozens of words the english translators used for the Hebrew and Greek word for soul. So in all of this, if it breathes, it has a soul.  The soul is life manifesting operation in flesh.

I did have this one verse kinda jump out at me . . .

"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself (nephesh, psuche), and opened her mouth without measure" (Isa. 5:14). [Even hell has a "soul." Her "soul" has gotten larger.]

In "my" eyes. my mind and satan are one and the same.  Satan simply means adversary and my mind is at emnity against God . ..which may very well be why I'm having trouble wrapping my understanding around the definition of a soul, it's a spiritual reality more than a physical learning. 

At anyrate, my mind is a she as well and I found it interesting that hell is also considered a she.  Those who walk in the flesh are dead to the things of God.   Hell is a form of death, or perhaps a process of death.  I do know that in the end, even hell has a purpose to reform and reshape our natures into godly ones.  In this world, you will receive trials and tribulation . . .you'll go through hell, but this world has been overcome by the blood of the Lamb. 

If the Lamb overcame this realm, then I'm not so sure my soul would be trapped in it after my bodies gives up it's spirit.  Still pondering.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: See my reply to your other post, Nate....

[micah7:9]

Isa 5:14 Therefore Sheol hath enlarged its desire, and opened its mouth without measure; and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth among them, descend `into it'.(AS1901)
Isa 5:14 Therefore hel hath inlarged it selfe, & hath opened his mouth, without measure, and their glorie, and their multitude, and their pompe, and hee that reioyceth among them, shall descend into it.(Geneva Bible 1587)

Do I really know if "hell" is a she?

I do not believe man can have a soul unless he has a body and spirit; the only part that can be, without soul and body, is spirit.

[Nathan]

You may be right about that, this is uncharted water for me.  It's not a room I've spent a lot of time in.

[micah7:9]

Nor has many others. The soul is ....a breathing creature, the individual person. The soul dies when the creature dies.

[Nathan]

This would be in line with the overlapping colors analogy as well.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, it does die, Micah, but there are different "forms" of death. Blessings...

[micah7:9]

Ok enlighten me on all these "forms" of death.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Do a study on death.....that's what I did. Blessings...

[lookingup]

There has always been two questions that i have that none of my former pastors or "authoritive" leaders has never been able to answer with scripture:

1 where in scripture does it tell us we have an immortal soul?


2 since we have scripture that says this:

Eze 18:4 -
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

my question is how can we have an immortal soul, and if All have sinned and the soul that sins shall die, how can this verse be true and mans doctrine of the immortal soul be correct also.

i will believe the scriptures

[micah7:9]

 :thumbsup: Praise the Lord!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Simple. He told THEM (He called THEIR name Adam,and said male and female made He THEM), Adam, a type of the spirit, and Eve and type of the SOUL, in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die, YET they lived physically. So they were first dead, He gave them His breath and they were alive, they sinned and they died, yet they still lived.

When He called THEIR name Adam (ADAM named her Eve) the judgment upon both, meant the restoration of both was to come, because God's judgments are unto victory. The restoration and resurrection of a triue being, means that all parts are restored, and if restored, then they are restored from SPIRITUAL death as well as physical death. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die, YET they lived physically. So they were first dead, He gave them His breath and they were alive, they sinned and they died, yet they still lived.

"surely die" can also simply mean "you had immortality but I'll take it away"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: When you were spiritually dead, yet physically alive, did you still have a soul? And if so, then what does the life or death of the body have to do with the elimination of the soul? Blessings....

[micah7:9]

As
Gen 5:24  And Enoch walketh habitually with God, and he is not, for God hath taken him

Can mean Enoch died.

2Ki 2:11  And it cometh to pass, they are going, going on and speaking, and lo, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and they separate between them both, and Elijah goeth up in a whirlwind, to the heavens.  

Elijah died.
Just different ways of saying something right?

[micah7:9]

I dont see where there is "a soul."   :sigh:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Did you look up in Strong's the words for soul and the words for spirit? Blessings...

[micah7:9]

Yep.
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

[thinktank]

As
Gen 5:24  And Enoch walketh habitually with God, and he is not, for God hath taken him

Can mean Enoch died.

2Ki 2:11  And it cometh to pass, they are going, going on and speaking, and lo, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and they separate between them both, and Elijah goeth up in a whirlwind, to the heavens.  

Elijah died.
Just different ways of saying something right?

But concerning the enoch verse, all the other passages, simply say they died, why not just say he died just like all the other people in Genesis. For God is not the author of confusion.

Also Elijah, went up in the chariot to the heavens and was seen, if he did die he still went to heaven anyway, but the verse doesn't say that he died. So maybe what I said in that other thread does fit.

[micah7:9]

Joh 3:13  I sticking with Jesus, He said no one, no man has ascended, Amen.

(ASV)  And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

(KJV)  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

(WNT)  There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven.

(YLT)  and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

[Cardinal]

Yep.
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

:cloud9: Saying the expression "those poor souls", is what is meant by the first meaning. THE soul, is what I made bold-faced red. Notice "she" and "ghost" are also listed in there.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 KJV
For the word of God is quick , and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Notice that it says He divides asunder the soul and spirit. Blessings....