Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV
Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living
creature. YLT
I understand this to mean that a "soul..living creature" is a count of one. As in, there were 900 souls lost. Today when I get
into a conversation, the soul no longer is a count of one, but and entity. We have expressions like, "immortal soul," and the soul does not die
when the body dies.
Am I in error to believe that that without body and spirit, there is no soul?
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible appendix," One cannot but regret the impossibility of making our English word "soul" express just as much as is conveyed by the Greek word psuche and the Hebrew word nephesh. The translator may confess that after a determined endeavour to render the latter term uniformly "soul" through out the the O.T., he was reluctanly constrained to give up the attempt. When in the book of Esther, it came in at the climax that the Jews were permitted "to stand for their soul," (nephesh- Est. viii. 11) this example proved the turning point of the scale and "life" was promptly substituted. It certainly maybe worth enquiry, how it comes about that the sacred originals so freely use a concrete word where we sorely feel our need of employing our abstraction term "life"; and that this is so, notwithstanding the exsistance of "chayah" in the Hebrew and "zoe" in the Greek, more exactly answering (as it might have seemed) to the English word "life." But the fact of stubborn diversity of usage above indicated remains, and it appears necessary to allow "life" to stand in a respectable minority of instances for "nephesh and psuche." In this edition, therefore, "life" has been admitted into a certain class of passages, of which Matt xvi. 25,26 maybe named as an example."
For me, my soul is the personality of my spirit. The general understanding is your soul is a combination of your mind, will and emotions . . .to me, that's my personality. So when I die, my body returns back to the earth but my spirit still has a personality . . .it was God given. The death of the body actually releases the constraints of the flesh and it releases our spirit/soul to exist without limitations of this realm. But to me, my soul is the personal expression of my spirit.
So then we have a soul, rather than being a soul?
So Gen. 2:7 ought to read
"... breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man," ...... received a soul (a personality for his spirit.?
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/soul-and-spirit.htm
It's no wonder that we can't put it into any kind of clarity when you see the dozens of words the english translators used for the Hebrew and Greek word for soul. So in all of this, if it breathes, it has a soul. The soul is life manifesting operation in flesh.
I did have this one verse kinda jump out at me . . .
"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself (nephesh, psuche), and opened her mouth without measure" (Isa. 5:14). [Even hell has a "soul." Her "soul" has gotten larger.]
In "my" eyes. my mind and satan are one and the same. Satan simply means adversary and my mind is at emnity against God . ..which may very well be why I'm having trouble wrapping my understanding around the definition of a soul, it's a spiritual reality more than a physical learning.
At anyrate, my mind is a she as well and I found it interesting that hell is also considered a she. Those who walk in the flesh are dead to the things of God. Hell is a form of death, or perhaps a process of death. I do know that in the end, even hell has a purpose to reform and reshape our natures into godly ones. In this world, you will receive trials and tribulation . . .you'll go through hell, but this world has been overcome by the blood of the Lamb.
If the Lamb overcame this realm, then I'm not so sure my soul would be trapped in it after my bodies gives up it's spirit. Still pondering.
:cloud9: See my reply to your other post, Nate....
Isa 5:14 Therefore Sheol hath enlarged its desire, and opened its mouth without measure; and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth among them, descend `into it'.(AS1901)
Isa 5:14 Therefore hel hath inlarged it selfe, & hath opened his mouth, without measure, and their glorie, and their multitude, and their pompe, and hee that reioyceth among them, shall descend into it.(Geneva Bible 1587)
Do I really know if "hell" is a she?
I do not believe man can have a soul unless he has a body and spirit; the only part that can be, without soul and body, is spirit.
You may be right about that, this is uncharted water for me. It's not a room I've spent a lot of time in.
Nor has many others. The soul is ....a breathing creature, the individual person. The soul dies when the creature dies.
This would be in line with the overlapping colors analogy as well.
:cloud9: Yes, it does die, Micah, but there are different "forms" of death. Blessings...
Ok enlighten me on all these "forms" of death.
:cloud9: Do a study on death.....that's what I did. Blessings...
There has always been two questions that i have that none of my former pastors or "authoritive" leaders has never been able to answer with scripture:
1 where in scripture does it tell us we have an immortal soul?
2 since we have scripture that says this:
Eze 18:4 -
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
my question is how can we have an immortal soul, and if All have sinned and the soul that sins shall die, how can this verse be true and mans doctrine of the immortal soul be correct also.
i will believe the scriptures
:thumbsup: Praise the Lord!
:cloud9: Simple. He told THEM (He called THEIR name Adam,and said male and female made He THEM), Adam, a type of the spirit, and Eve and type of the SOUL, in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die, YET they lived physically. So they were first dead, He gave them His breath and they were alive, they sinned and they died, yet they still lived.
When He called THEIR name Adam (ADAM named her Eve) the judgment upon both, meant the restoration of both was to come, because God's judgments are unto victory. The restoration and resurrection of a triue being, means that all parts are restored, and if restored, then they are restored from SPIRITUAL death as well as physical death. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on June 27, 2010, 07:08:12 PMin the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die, YET they lived physically. So they were first dead, He gave them His breath and they were alive, they sinned and they died, yet they still lived.
"surely die" can also simply mean "you had immortality but I'll take it away"
:cloud9: When you were spiritually dead, yet physically alive, did you still have a soul? And if so, then what does the life or death of the body have to do with the elimination of the soul? Blessings....
As
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walketh habitually with God, and he is not, for God hath taken him
Can mean Enoch died.
2Ki 2:11 And it cometh to pass, they are going, going on and speaking, and lo, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and they separate between them both, and Elijah goeth up in a whirlwind, to the heavens.
Elijah died.
Just different ways of saying something right?
I dont see where there is "a soul." :sigh:
:cloud9: Did you look up in Strong's the words for soul and the words for spirit? Blessings...
Yep.
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 27, 2010, 08:53:33 PM
As
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walketh habitually with God, and he is not, for God hath taken him
Can mean Enoch died.
2Ki 2:11 And it cometh to pass, they are going, going on and speaking, and lo, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and they separate between them both, and Elijah goeth up in a whirlwind, to the heavens.
Elijah died.
Just different ways of saying something right?
But concerning the enoch verse, all the other passages, simply say they died, why not just say he died just like all the other people in Genesis. For God is not the author of confusion.
Also Elijah, went up in the chariot to the heavens and was seen, if he did die he still went to heaven anyway, but the verse doesn't say that he died. So maybe what I said in that other thread does fit.
Joh 3:13 I sticking with Jesus, He said no one, no man has ascended, Amen.
(ASV) And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.
(KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
(WNT) There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven.
(YLT) and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 27, 2010, 10:17:05 PM
Yep.
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
:cloud9: Saying the expression "those poor souls", is what is meant by the first meaning. THE soul, is what I made bold-faced red. Notice "she" and "ghost" are also listed in there.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole
spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
For the word of God is quick , and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of
soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Notice that it says He divides asunder the soul and spirit. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on June 27, 2010, 10:37:01 PMHebrews 4:12 KJV ... piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...
Is it in any way connected with RaL? :Chinscratch:
:cloud9: RaL? Uh, I must have missed that abbreviation.... :mblush:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 27, 2010, 10:43:56 PM
:cloud9: RaL? Uh, I must have missed that abbreviation.... :mblush:
Rich man and Lazarus.
:cloud9: Once again, spiritually speaking, it does to me. If you re-read what I posted in the LOF thread, the two "pieces" of the same "animal" that He walks between, represent also the outer court and the Holy of Holies. His walk in between, is the walk in the firmament/inner court. The Tabernacle is also the pattern of a man, as well as mankind.
When you run down the word "wound", it runs into a meaning of WIDE GULF. The wound in His side, corresponds to the inner court realm. Blessings...
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature..all that is mentioned after, will be from the source..from the circumstances to which the life is involved, would they not?
1Th 5:23 Himself but the God of the peace may sanctify you entirely; and whole of you the spirit and the life and the body blameless in the presence of the Lord of us Jesus Anointed may be preserved. (Emphatic Diag)
Heb 4:12 Living for the word of the God, and energetic, and more cutting beyond every sword two-mouthed, even cutting through to a division of life both and of breath, of joints both and of marrows, and able to judge of thoughts and of intentions of heart;( Emp. Diag.)
.
i have been told a number of things by the mainstream preachers , laymen, deacons, that i did not see as an answer about immortality of the soul, i would ask them about this passage of scripture,
1 Tim 6:14-that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, 15which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16-who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
and i was always told they would get back with me, but they never did (hoping i would forget they were to come back?????)
To me it is pretty clear, there is only one that has immortality, even Paul said we wait our change and will put on immortality at the ressurection
:cloud9: My :2c: There are different types of life and death.......also, He has life to give AND life everlasting (immortality).
The beginning shows the ending, and if we do not accept this foundational truth of "male and female created He THEM", then it's going to be very hard if not impossible to receive anything else on the subject of soul and spirit and we miss out on a lot of what He has to say.
It's like us going to a man's house and refusing to acknowledge his wife because we don't believe he has one, even though she's staring us right in the face. Blessings...
Yeah I think the evidence is mounting that there is no life after death and that all are waiting for the resurection of the dead, one for the just and one for the unjust.
Acts24
Quote from: Cardinal on June 28, 2010, 12:59:33 AM
:cloud9: My :2c: There are different types of life and death.......also, He has life to give AND life everlasting (immortality).
The beginning shows the ending, and if we do not accept this foundational truth of "male and female created He THEM", then it's going to be very hard if not impossible to receive anything else on the subject of soul and spirit and we miss out on a lot of what He has to say.
It's like us going to a man's house and refusing to acknowledge his wife because we don't believe he has one, even though she's staring us right in the face. Blessings...
Cardinal, I believe and know Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Is true, God made man male and female, but I dont accept that it has to do with the soul and spirit. my
:2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 28, 2010, 01:25:49 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on June 28, 2010, 12:59:33 AM
:cloud9: My :2c: There are different types of life and death.......also, He has life to give AND life everlasting (immortality).
The beginning shows the ending, and if we do not accept this foundational truth of "male and female created He THEM", then it's going to be very hard if not impossible to receive anything else on the subject of soul and spirit and we miss out on a lot of what He has to say.
It's like us going to a man's house and refusing to acknowledge his wife because we don't believe he has one, even though she's staring us right in the face. Blessings...
Cardinal, I believe and know Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Is true, God made man male and female, but I dont accept that it has to do with the soul and spirit. my
:2c:
I agree with this, I think the original Adam was both male and female, but then God took Female out of Adams rib and created Eve, who is the mother of us all. But I will continue to search and look for more truth regarding soul/spirit, like you cardinal.
Quote from: thinktank on June 28, 2010, 01:00:05 AM
Yeah I think the evidence is mounting that there is no life after death and that all are waiting for the resurection of the dead, one for the just and one for the unjust.
Acts24
:cloud9: My :2c:.....Again, another way to perceive that, is that He speaks to us fractionally; the just = spirit IN His Spirit, the unjust = the soul NOT IN His Spirit, and both must come into His Spirit for the resurrection, for us to be "every whit whole" ie. no longer twain, but ONE new man IN Christ. Adam (THEIR name is Adam) is swallowed up of Christ, ALL of "him".
The wheat (spirit) and the tares (soul) are raised up together, which is why it says when HE arose, many arose with Him. We have a tendency to want to see others as "tares", instead of seeing that we have a "contentious wife" in the wilderness, also. Blessings...
we are the resistance.
Genesis 37:3
Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
I, for one, believe that I will never die because Jesus said this would be so. What is immortality but a different coat?
The LORD slipped one onto Adam and Eve when they left the garden.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
--Gen 3
And he will slip another on us when we leave this body.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
--1 Cor 15
"put on"
G1746
ενδύω
enduō
en-doo'-o
From G1722 and G1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively): - array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.
It is his immortality I will be clothed with, a garment washed in his blood. Our Lord has promised us this.
Joseph's coat was only washed in the blood of goats. Even so, Jacob mourned for a beloved son who was still alive.
31And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood;
32And they sent the coat of many colours, and they brought it to their father; and said, This have we found: know now whether it be thy son's coat or no.
33And he knew it, and said, It is my son's coat; an evil beast hath devoured him; Joseph is without doubt rent in pieces.
34And Jacob rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many days.
--Gen 37
Silent is the sackcloth Weaver
www.youtube.com/user/LightofTheCity1#p/u/30/TirDEovY5Do
Here is another question i ask of mainstream churchianity and again, no answer:
Jesus said He was coming back to retrieve His church and ressurect the dead, if He was coming back to get those still alive on the last day, it would make perfect sense, but He comes back to ressurect, why?, if you have already gone "home" Why does He need to come back for you?
That doesn't make sense to me
He is not coming back FOR us, He is coming back IN us — right here, right now.
:cloud9: If He's IN you, and this is the third day (2 thousand year days since the cross), where does He resurrect OUT OF? Christ IN YOU, the hope of glory. Blessings...
1Co 15:20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
1Co 15:21 for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
1Co 15:22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
1Co 15:23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
"He is not coming back FOR us, He is coming back IN us — right here, right now." Beloved Servant
That friend is what alot of believers dont really get...He did come, He has come, and He IS coming, and He Will come, and continue coming UNTIL
1Co 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Glory Hallelujah! :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Amen Micah....yes He has, does, and will. Blessings...
Here is my wondering. Does anyone know when this teaching of Body Soul and Spirit began? It has been troubling me basically and with Bible truth as written in Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. I ask and wonder.
Now, because a soul is a living creature and is nothing, without its components, body and spirit. Why is it that Bible believers and Christian theologian thinkers teach that a soul is something other than a living creature????? For me it has to be a trinity theology theory. Man as far as I can tell is made up of Spirit and Body= a living creature or soul..period. Some ugly stuff can come from that formula.
So the body, soul, and spirit is a teaching that believes in a triune god.
"The two shall become One."
peacemaker
Well thank you for that. :happygrin:
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 08:13:09 AMMan as far as I can tell is made up of Spirit and Body= a living creature or soul..period.
QuoteNow, because a soul is a living creature and is nothing,
Animals are living creatures too.
Quoteand man became a living soul.
I think a very important questions: What does became mean?
a] Man was just literally dead
b] Man did live, like all animals, but was taken to a higher level.
QuoteFor me it has to be a trinity theology theory
Personally I see it this way.
Without God all things are dead.
God puts X into something and that something becomes alive. (note: both animals and man are alive)
Mankind also got Y and became spiritual aware. Mankind has been given something extra.
What is X? What is Y? X=Y?
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 08:49:35 AM
Well thank you for that. :happygrin:
Peacemaker writes the texts for those Chinese fortune cookies :happygrin:
(http://media.onsugar.com/files/ons1/363/3632822/32_2009/27a82359f68a4067_fortune_cookie.jpg)
But that doesn't answer what the former state was.
He became an adult doesn't me he wasn't alive before that. In fact he has lived 21 year before that point.
So was the "became of man" the first step in a process?
Or
Was the "became of man" an upgrade from a previous state.
I think a very important questions: What does became mean? Became= H1961
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
a] Man was just literally dead man ? No, man WAS NOT YET (so he werent dead)
b] Man did live, like all animals, but was taken to a higher level. Nope, the Book dont say that.;
Gen 1:20 And God saith, `Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'
Gen 1:21 And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that it is good.
They were already life- alive He had not FORMED them yet. (Gen. 1:27) souls already waiting they were resting in the spoken word.
Now here is what the Word of God reads..... Gen 2:7 man was FORMED and BECAME A LIVING SOUL..LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN! MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL. Man was NOT given a soul, he became a living soul...a SOUL is a living creature. PERIOD!!!!!!!
If, or should you desire to build theorys and doctrines, let it be known that man is a living soul and man was not given a soul. Nor were any of the animals or fowl given a soul....they all are souls! My :2c:
Quote
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 21, 2010, 10:08:36 AM
But that doesn't answer what the former state was. The former state was he wasnt
He became an adult doesn't me he wasn't alive before that. In fact he has lived 21 year before that point. all?Now I do not understand this latter statement at
So was the "became of man" the first step in a process?
Or
Was the "became of man" an upgrade from a previous state.
Just what do you want me to make up for answer, so that my answer will not be as ill begot as the question?
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 10:17:36 AMJust what do you want me to make up for answer
I just want a normal discussion. That seems not to be possible so bye bye.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 21, 2010, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 10:17:36 AMJust what do you want me to make up for answer
I just want a normal discussion. That seems not to be possible so bye bye.
I keep quoting the Bible and my discussion is not normal? Man is a living soul does that bother you? The book of Genesis states in chapter 2 verse 7 that man became a living soul, when the Lord Gods breath was blown into him. It does not state that man was given a soul. Now if we can begin from there I know by the grace of God we can build on a sound and solid foundation and reach understanding of His Word.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 21, 2010, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 10:17:36 AMJust what do you want me to make up for answer
I just want a normal discussion. That seems not to be possible so bye bye.
WhiteWings do you find my questions wrong or is it me? It just feels like Im dumb and you are not. I just hear your words and they seem to look down on me.
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 11:16:11 AMWhiteWings do you find my questions wrong or is it me?
No, actually I find many of your questions good ones.
QuoteIt just feels like Im dumb and you are not.
That's your feeling. I never wrote such a thing.
QuoteI just hear your words and they seem to look down on me.
I just read the Bible differently that most, likely all, on this forum. So my questions are different than you may be used to. I bet that discussion on a Catholic forum often take another direction as on say a Protestant forum. Different backgrounds. And my religious background is: totally nothing. A few months before my first post on this forum I never have even touched a Bible or any other religious material.
When I read verses I read words. Not doctrines. And that seems be problematic to you. But am I to blame for that? I think not...
So for me it doesn't matter if man only has 1 soul or 10 souls. If the text reads 1 soul. Great. If the text reads 10 souls great too. I'm not forced into a certain direction because in the past the pope said one soul or pastor Brimstone said 4 souls.
:dontknow:
Quote from: wwSo for me it doesn't matter if man only has 1 soul or 10 souls. If the text reads 1 soul. Great. If the text reads 10 souls great too.
But, a little common sense is also called for here. If the text did say you had 10 souls, would you believe it? But nothing that specific is ever said.
I think it's reasonable to believe that all living, sentient creatures have a soul, even the animals [maybe even the plants]. But, man is so far unique in that he can achieve higher levels of consciousness within his lifetime [even go from death to life]. This doesn't mean he is moving from one soul to another. Although my dog clearly has a personality, and can understand just about everything I say, I would never argue that he could compete with man. On the other hand, that's his appeal. He is without guile.
I see the soul as the enduring part of a being--that which is allowed to attain immortality.
1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
:cloud9: It's like this, for my :2c:...... The two shall become one that peacemaker quoted means the soul shall become one with the Spirit. We are spirit, soul, and body, according to the NT. He divides asunder soul from spirit in the NT.
The soul is the feminine receptive part, the spirit is the authority that plants seed. Male and female is one of the witnesses of that. Male and female created Him THEM.
The Spirit does not have human thought, human emotions, human will, or human desires, so where do those things come from? The body of dust?
What it means when He said man became a living soul, is that He for His purposes, gave life to something that had no part of Him until He breathed in the spark that gave it life or quickened it. He gives every man a measure of faith to receive Him and that spark is the measure of faith.
If you want to start a fire on some dirt, you have to have something to burn because dirt doesn't burn. Blessings....
dirt don't burn! lol
:cloud9: But we know the chaff from the seed does, doesn't it.... :winkgrin:
Although I suppose as super high temperatures it would burn to change form, mirroring the glorified body, eh?
Who can burn with everlasting fire?
Quote from: CardinalThe two shall become one that peacemaker quoted means the soul shall become one with the Spirit. We are spirit, soul, and body, according to the NT. He divides asunder soul from spirit in the NT.
The soul is the feminine receptive part, the spirit is the authority that plants seed. Male and female is one of the witnesses of that.Male and female created Him THEM.
Are you distinguishing between the spirit of man and the Spirit of God? Why would he divide asunder the spirit and soul?
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: wwSo for me it doesn't matter if man only has 1 soul or 10 souls. If the text reads 1 soul. Great. If the text reads 10 souls great too.
But, a little common sense is also called for here. If the text did say you had 10 souls, would you believe it? But nothing that specific is ever said.
I would investigate. Is there more proof for 10 souls? 10 souls is a bit obvious; but 1 spirit + 1 animal soul + 1 human soul are already more possible reading various Hebrew words from soul/spirit. So if finally we found solid proof of only 1 spirit and that it; well I wouldn't be disappointed with it. Neither if it turns out we have 1 soul and one spirit. It really doesn't matter to me.
QuoteI think it's reasonable to believe that all living, sentient creatures have a soul, even the animals
I posted this link earlier in this thread. Yes animals have souls.
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/soul-and-spirit.htmQuote[maybe even the plants].
That's a question I once started a topic on. Blood seems to equal life. Animals have souls. Etc. But plants are never (?) mentioned. BTW plants have awareness.
QuoteBut, man is so far unique in that he can achieve higher levels of consciousness within his lifetime [even go from death to life].
Just because he's a better animal or be cause God gave him something extra?
QuoteThis doesn't mean he is moving from one soul to another.
I never claimed that. And if some post seems to say that I take back those words.
QuoteI see the soul as the enduring part of a being--that which is allowed to attain immortality.
So animals get immortality too because they have a soul?
Quote1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
No more fun. Just hard work and problems. :laughing7:
Isn't that what He did when He took Adam's rib?
He put the man to sleep and gave guidance of the 5 senses to the soul.
A divorce and a marriage, hmmm... just thought of that.
Quote from: wwSo animals get immortality too because they have a soul?
MartinCisneros always said so. I didn't think so at first, but that was before I fell in love with a few animals. Now I think God loves all his creation independently and personally--so why not? Why wouldn't he want to save the most precious personalities he has created--each one unique?
QuoteJust because he's a better animal or be cause God gave him something extra?
God's specific intent was creating man in his own image and likeness. So, man is special. But if some men consider the rest of men beasts with a beast-like soul, then they can justify doing anything to them--especially since they consider they have dominion over beasts. That was never God's intent. I am convinced there are men who think this way and justify their actions by saying they are gods and the rest of us are beasts. It's always been so in human history. Like I said, this is very dangerous thinking.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 21, 2010, 04:21:23 PM
He put the man to sleep and gave guidance of the 5 senses to the soul.
A divorce and a marriage, hmmm... just thought of that.
Yes, and at the same time, divided soul and spirit [adam and eve], so the soul [Eve] began acting independently of the spirit and depending on the input from the carnal senses to determine truth, giving rise to a type of soulish spirit--called the carnal mind.
It makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: CardinalThe two shall become one that peacemaker quoted means the soul shall become one with the Spirit. We are spirit, soul, and body, according to the NT. He divides asunder soul from spirit in the NT.
The soul is the feminine receptive part, the spirit is the authority that plants seed. Male and female is one of the witnesses of that.Male and female created Him THEM.
Are you distinguishing between the spirit of man and the Spirit of God? Why would he divide asunder the spirit and soul?
:cloud9: So "Adam" can see what's in his heart, and deal with it according to the Spirit of God and His righteousness. The offering had to be washed (washing of the Word), and then consumed by fire (our God is a consuming fire).
The washing of the Word cleanses, but the fire cleanses and purifies, and so that all is left is one new man, like the 4th man in the fire, a Son of God.
The first Adam was ruled by his soul (wife), he was supposed to keep his "wife" silent in church (his temple) instead she spoke.
Just saw something new as I typed that last line. Wow. The soul/womb has creative power, made in the image of the One who creates by speaking everything into existance. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
The "mouth" of the heart of soulish man that speaks/CREATES is as the mouth of the WOMB that gives birth. I knew the woman that had the issue of blood, the blood was the soul giving life, but never saw this last part before. Praise You Lord.
Dear God, it's the HARVEST of what we speak, that is why we are to speak through the life of the Spirit, and not the "life" of the soul/flesh, because both are capable of creating a harvest. We reap what we sow. Knew this in principle, but He's breathing more life into it today....wow.
The second Adam was ruled by the Spirit He was one with. Blessings...
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 21, 2010, 04:21:23 PM
He put the man to sleep and gave guidance of the 5 senses to the soul.
A divorce and a marriage, hmmm... just thought of that.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
Quote from: CardinalJust saw something new as I typed that last line. Wow. The soul/womb has creative power, made in the image of the One who creates by speaking everything into existance. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
The "mouth" of the heart of soulish man that speaks/CREATES is as the mouth of the WOMB that gives birth. I knew the woman that had the issue of blood, the blood was the soul giving life, but never saw this last part before. Praise You Lord.
Dear God, it's the HARVEST of what we speak, that is why we are to speak through the life of the Spirit, and not the "life" of the soul/flesh, because both are capable of creating a harvest. We reap what we sow. Knew this in principle, but He's breathing more life into it today....wow.
Yes, wow.
Psalm 113:9
He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children. Praise ye the LORD.
:cloud9: That's why when He comes, His reward is with Him. Children are a reward of the Lord. Our soul is to birth a SON! The firstfruits of the womb that bears, the firstfruits receives a double portion of inheritance = soul and spirit back in Holy union.
Conversely, if they didn't lay their soul on the altar, go thru the fire, they keep the wood, stubble, ect., having produced an Ishmael instead of an Isaac.
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 04:30:11 PMGod's specific intent was creating man in his own image and likeness. So, man is special. But if some men consider the rest of men beasts with a beast-like soul, then they can justify doing anything to them--especially since they consider they have dominion over beasts. That was never God's intent. I am convinced there are men who think this way and justify their actions by saying they are gods and the rest of us are beasts. It's always been so in human history. Like I said, this is very dangerous thinking.
That's not correct. If a man only has a beast-soul it's a beast. So when you look like a man you are a men. All have men have a soul.
Except those who sold it to the devil :winkgrin:
:cloud9: Yes creation and animals have a soul. The creation is as His "wife", the lesser glory, she witnesses by reflecting His glory, just as the moon reflects the Sun's light. That's why ALL OF CREATION is waiting on the manifestation of the sons of God (Romans 8).
That's also why they were taken into the ark of Noah. God could have just made new animals after the water receded, but it wouldn't have been according to the pattern of salvation for all creation. Blessings...
PS. Got to leave for a couple of hours, but be back later to meditate on this some more......
Quote from: Cardinal on July 21, 2010, 04:42:30 PM
:cloud9: That's why when He comes, His reward is with Him. Children are a reward of the Lord. Our soul is to birth a SON! The firstfruits of the womb that bears, the firstfruits receives a double portion of inheritance = soul and spirit back in Holy union.
Conversely, if they didn't lay their soul on the altar, go thru the fire, they keep the wood, stubble, ect., having produced an Ishmael instead of an Isaac.
Sarah was barren, Rachel was barren, but Sarah gives birth to the son of the promise, and Rachel gives birth to Joseph and Benjamin, son of the right hand.
Isaiah 54:1
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
That's why I've been saying, though perhaps no one caught it...
That he will "appear" in our mouth!
The Word of God made flesh in us!
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 21, 2010, 05:05:18 PM
That's why I've been saying, though perhaps no one caught it...
That he will "appear" in our mouth!
The Word of God made flesh in us!
ssshhh...now you're sounding like a Protestant [Reformation type]. :laughing7:
Job 19:26
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Quote from: CardinalThat's why when He comes, His reward is with Him. Children are a reward of the Lord. Our soul is to birth a SON! The firstfruits of the womb that bears, the firstfruits receives a double portion of inheritance = soul and spirit back in Holy union.
That, btw, is one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard preached.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
lol, well, if that's their message sign me up!
That's why the Israelites had to fight the Philistines, but were afraid, they has no swords, which is the Spirit within, so David, a type of Christ, slew Goliath, the old man, with one stone right between the eyes, the mind, so now we renew our minds by putting on the Mind of Christ as He covers our soul/senses with the anointing.
One more step to that Beloved Servant . . .Goliath's "head" had to be removed . . .with a sword . . .even though the stone brought him down to the earth, his head still had to be removed . . .Christ is the head . .we are his body . . .
I believed the doctrine of soul/woman, you all agree to believe in and post, until maybe a year ago. I have taught it just as you all have posted for many years. But I read "...man became a living soul." And I cannot find where in Genesis one where He gives a soul to the sea monsters, creeping creature, and fowl it just says they were alive/living. As I venture on to chapter two, I read verse seven as Ive noted, as I read further I read that the Lord God formed the beast and the fowl (2:19) I do not read the word soul again until
Gen 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee. and read that to say".. and I shall live
because of thee."
I have not yet found where man was given a soul. I find the word soul used to mean living, breath, life. I can find it interpreted as something else, like man has a soul but the Bible does not say man was given a soul. At least I have not found the verse. It seems to me that the Body-Soul-Spirit teaching is a trinity teaching and I no longer accept the trinity theory hypothosis. Have not for years. I would greatly appreciate it if any of you can lead me to the light where man has a soul or that man was given a soul, where it is taught in the Book, rather than the doctrine of men. I believe that what Im saying probably goes awry of my mentors and that saddens me. I do not believe understanding the soul as a living creature hinders the understanding of Heb.4:12 "... dividing asunder of soul([life] the way you live) and spirit"
Peace and Love Through Jesus
If I follow the "spirit dwelling in flesh manifests a soul" perspective, I don't necessarily "need" a Scripture passage to tell me animals have souls, the pattern is already there. When a spirit dwells in a body, a soul manifests as a result. For me, the difference between the soul of a man and the soul of an animal is that man became a 'living" soul. He became "spiritually alive" through the breath of the Father entering into the flesh of a man.
The Scriptures say that we are created in His Image which, then, begs the question:
Does God have a soul?
For if He does, than do we.
Quote from: Nathan on July 21, 2010, 07:17:59 PM
If I follow the "spirit dwelling in flesh manifests a soul" perspective, I don't necessarily "need" a Scripture passage to tell me animals have souls, the pattern is already there. When a spirit dwells in a body, a soul manifests as a result. For me, the difference between the soul of a man and the soul of an animal is that man became a 'living" soul. He became "spiritually alive" through the breath of the Father entering into the flesh of a man.
But then are you not doing just what man does, work up a doctrine? How come we cant begin with the first time the word soul is used and use that as the foundation? Man became a living soul, all living creatures are souls. The breath of life is the Spirit, the same Spirit as Gen 1:2 "... and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,:
That Spirit causes the natural event of mankind breathing :and man is a living soul.
Animals Gen 1:30 ".. every creeping thing on the earth, in which
is breath of life," are living creatures (souls) The Book is explaining its self, why dont we build on that?
To ask the question ..does God have a soul (a breathing creature)?
Im no tryng to be sarcastic, but that would be the question as far as what a soul is.
Jesus breathes in
and
Jesus breathes out.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 21, 2010, 07:52:45 PM
Jesus breathes in
and
Jesus breathes out.
Jesus is the soul of the living God.
John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
:cloud9: I'm back.....I'm digging right now.....while I was off and busy, He dropped into my spirit reminding me of a word I found in the Hebrew one day this week.....looking for the word, but it meant roughly, "to split" and I was thinking at the time, how does this meaning go with this word?
And when I had that thought, He dropped into my spirit that there was a connection between the womb veil that is split to receive the seed, and the septum of the nose (He breathed into his nostrils) that is "split" as in, divided. And lo and behold, there is a man's name that helped build the wall, whose name means, "SPLIT NOSE". And so, digging to find this thread of gold.....anybody want to help??? Blessings...
4 Who wills (Jesus Christ is His Will) that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth (I AM the Truth).
:cloud9: Ok, what I've found so far, and I did look this word up this week; cleave as in him cleaving unto his wife, means "to split". So God "cleaved" unto His wife, the soul of Adam by breathing into his split nostrils??? He planted "seed" in the "womb" and it brought forth the first son, Adam....Still digging....throwing stuff out there waiting for the image to take "form".....
When He Comes
...wait until the Master comes, who will both put light on the things hidden in the darkness and make apparent the counsels of the hearts.. I Cor. 45 (TCB)
Hello I have arrived. What? why you looking at me like that, Ok im going to leave, my peace I leave to you
:happy3: :happy3:
:cloud9: Found the word I was looking at this week that I couldn't figure out why "to split open" was included in the meaning....it's here....it's the word "thinketh". And notice it has to do with a man's heart/soul....
Prov. 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink , saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Strong's Number: 08176
Original Word Word Origin
r[X primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Sha`ar TWOT - 2438
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
shaw-ar' Verb
Definition
to split open, reason out, calculate, reckon, estimate
(Qal) to calculate Pr 23:7
Quote from: thinktank on July 21, 2010, 08:17:22 PM
Hello I have arrived. What? why you looking at me like that, Ok im going to leave, my peace I leave to you
:happy3: :happy3:
clarify/expound?
I don't want to downplay your revelation Card, but to me the splitting of Adam was simply Gods operation taking out woman from man, for Adam came from the earth but woman came from man, so to me it not about soul/spirit, but about taking out a part of Adam the x chromosome if you will and then double it. (Bit more complex than this, but that's a good analogy I think)
Because to me there is no difference between the original Adam who is described as a living soul and then Adam who has been "operated" on by God when he feel into sleep, for he springs up the same man, not as half the man, i.e his soul/Eve split from him, but springs up delighted that another person is there to help him and be company for him and he names her Eve. I think if something as drastic as Adams soul was ripped from him, then he would have noticed somthing very different, but he does not notice anything, and to me, nothing about Adam changed, even his rib was not changed, but only that God took the design of Adam and multiplied him, and changed it enough to produce Eve. :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on July 21, 2010, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: thinktank on July 21, 2010, 08:17:22 PM
Hello I have arrived. What? why you looking at me like that, Ok im going to leave, my peace I leave to you
:happy3: :happy3:
clarify/expound?
I was acting a fool :icon_joker: :icon_jokercolor: arriving at the wrong place at the wrong time, look at your post, then mine.
Quote from: CardinalFound the word I was looking at this week that I couldn't figure out why "to split open" was included in the meaning....it's here....it's the word "thinketh". And notice it has to do with a man's heart/soul....
Prov. 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink , saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Beautiful!
[as a man]
"thinketh" H8176
שׁער
shâ‛arshaw-ar'
A primitive root; to split or open, that is, (literally, but only as denominative from H8179)
to act as gate keeper (see H7778); (figuratively) to estimate: - think.
H8179
שׁער
sha‛arshah'-ar
From H8176 in its original sense;
an opening, that is, door or gate: - city, door, gate, port (X -er).
"in his heart" [so is he]
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay,
soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WkyTwXa4TwPsalm 24:7
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.[Who is the King of Glory? The LORD of Hosts. He is the King of Glory!]
Quote from: thinktank on July 21, 2010, 08:33:06 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 21, 2010, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: thinktank on July 21, 2010, 08:17:22 PM
Hello I have arrived. What? why you looking at me like that, Ok im going to leave, my peace I leave to you
:happy3: :happy3:
clarify/expound?
I was acting a fool :icon_joker: :icon_jokercolor: arriving at the wrong place at the wrong time, look at your post, then mine.
OK, so flip the order then, and it flows...I thought it was confusing, but now I think I get it. Thanks.
It's just what everyone keeps saying--
The kingdom of God is within--
The garden of Eden is within the heart/soul--
But there is only one Way [back] in--
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
--Gen 3
Molly!
I was just reading that scripture!
:cloud9: :thumbsup: I'm still here, still digging for gold....
:cloud9: This is going to be a deep one, take lots of digging....just looked up everlasting doors in your scripture Molly, and doors there means to open but also to engrave. Also means to loose oneself, as in coming out of the grave.....
Psa 24:7 and 9 Lift up, O gates, your heads, And be lifted up, O doors age-during, And come in doth the king of glory! (YLT)
Only time used :thumbsup:
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 21, 2010, 11:06:17 PM
Psa 24:7 and 9 Lift up, O gates, your heads, And be lifted up, O doors age-during, And come in doth the king of glory! (YLT)
Only time used :thumbsup:
[lift up ]
"your heads" [O ye gates]
H7218
ראשׁ
rô'sh
roshe
From an unused root apparently meaning
to shake; the head (as most easily shaken), whether literally or figuratively (in many applications, of place, time, rank, etc.): - band, beginning, captain, chapiter, chief (-est place, man, things), company, end, X every [man], excellent, first, forefront, ([be-]) head, height, (on) high (-est part, [priest]), X lead, X poor, principal, ruler, sum, top.
6For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
7And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
8The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.
--Haggai 2
:thumbsup:
I don't know if this will help, or make the discussion more unclear :mblush: but I thought some of you might like these passages from the deuterocanonical book called Wisdom. I thought of this thread because it mentions both spirit and soul.
This is a passage speaking of people who craft worthless idols.
Wis 15:7 For truly the potter, laboriously working the soft earth, molds for our service each several article: Both the vessels that serve for clean purposes and their opposites, all alike; As to what shall be the use of each vessel of either class the worker in clay is the judge.
Wis 15:8 And with misspent toil he molds a meaningless god from the selfsame clay; though he himself shortly before was made from the earth And after a little, is to go whence he was taken, when the life that was lent him is demanded back.
Wis 15:9 But his concern is not that he is to die nor that his span of life is brief; Rather, he vies with goldsmiths and silversmiths and emulates molders of bronze, and takes pride in modeling counterfeits.
Wis 15:10 Ashes his heart is! more worthless than earth is his hope, and more ignoble than clay his life;
Wis 15:11 Because he knew not the one who fashioned him, and breathed into him a quickening soul, and infused a vital spirit.
Wis 15:12 Instead, he esteemed our life a plaything, and our span of life a holiday for gain; "For one must," says he, "make profit every way, be it even out of evil."
Wis 15:13 For this man more than any knows that he is sinning, when out of earthen stuff he creates fragile vessels and idols alike.
... from the Fortune Cookie collection:
"When a log is split, both of the insides look the same; mirror imaged."
The next time you look in the mirror, you might discover that the human body is divided right down the middle. And in most cases is
an exact duplicate of the other side, only reversed. Surely, we need to put things in their correct order; Spirit and the living nature of
soul/body of flesh. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires, but those who live
in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
Are not we dead in our sins, until Life is breathed into us by the Spirit?
peacemaker
Yes
Maybe that's why we are told to rekon ourselves dead to sin, because we seem to, always, be very much alive to it.
Take an account of your obedience to Him and ask for the Lord's Hand to walk you through it all.
His will is that we overcome through Him, not of our own strength.
He builds the Temple. His Love is the fire.
Romans 6 (CLV)
8 Now if we died together with Christ, we believe that we shall be living together with Him also,
9 having perceived that Christ, being roused from among the dead, is no longer dying. Death is lording it over Him no longer,
10 for in that He died, He died to Sin once for all time, yet in that He is living, He is living to God.
11 Thus you also, be reckoning yourselves to be dead, indeed, to Sin, yet living to God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
Luke 17 (CLV)
21 Neither shall they be declaring 'Lo! here!' or 'Lo! there!' for lo! the kingdom of God is inside of you."
Once our Lord gives us His broken bread, as with the two He walked with to Emmaus, our eyes are opened to the prize of the High Calling in Christ Jesus.
With confidence press toward the prize; it is not an unreachable goal.
This race can be won!
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 23, 2010, 05:24:16 PM
Maybe that's why we are told to rekon ourselves dead to sin, because we seem to, always, be very much alive to it.
Take an account of your obedience to Him and ask for the Lord's Hand to walk you through it all.
His will is that we overcome through Him, not of our own strength.
He builds the Temple. His Love is the fire. :thumbsup:
Romans 6 (CLV)
8 Now if we died together with Christ, we believe that we shall be living together with Him also,
9 having perceived that Christ, being roused from among the dead, is no longer dying. Death is lording it over Him no longer,
10 for in that He died, He died to Sin once for all time, yet in that He is living, He is living to God.
11 Thus you also, be reckoning yourselves to be dead, indeed, to Sin, yet living to God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
Luke 17 (CLV)
21 Neither shall they be declaring 'Lo! here!' or 'Lo! there!' for lo! the kingdom of God is inside of you."
Once our Lord gives us His broken bread, as with the two He walked with to Emmaus, our eyes are opened to the prize of the High Calling in Christ Jesus.
With confidence press toward the prize; it is not an unreachable goal.
This race can be won!