Lake of THE fire

[WhiteWings]

Sodom and the 4 sister cities were build very near what we now call the dead sea.
Dead sea is salt sea in Hebrew IIRC.
Salt purifies. But sulpher/brimstone also because it was used for Temple cleansing.
Another name is Lake Asphaltites.

The names of the cities indicate volcanic activity. Secular science confirms that.
A volcanic eruption caused the fire and brimstone. Anyway the article continues that the volcano kept smoking for a very long time. (possibly Moses' pillar of smoke)
The volcano that is in the dead sea was still active during Jesus' time.
According to the author of the article the Greek supports another reading.
The Lake of Fire.
should be
The Lake of the Fire.
And ofcourse that fire is the volcano in the lake. It's not the lake itself that's on fire.

More info on this UR site:
Introduction
Location of LoF
Even more about.....humm... LoF
Little off-topic

[sven]

According to the author of the article the Greek supports another reading.
The Lake of Fireshould be The Lake of the Fire.

as far as I can tell this seems to be correct, there is a definite article tou pyros - of the fire

very interesting link

[WhiteWings]

Rev 20:14,15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The New John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible:
There seems to be some allusion in the phrase used here, and in the preceding verse, and elsewhere in this book, to the lake Asphaltites, a sulphurous lake, where Sodom and Gomorrah stood, which the Jews call the salt sea, or the bituminous lake; and whatsoever was useless, or rejected, or abominable, or accursed, they used to say, to show their rejection and detestation of it, let it be cast into the sea of salt, or the bituminous lake; thus, for instance,

``any vessels that had on them the image of the sun, or of the moon, or of a dragon "let them cast them into the salt sea", or bituminous lake*.''
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l008.htm

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Really good point, WW......He showed me His love is as LAVA, ie. the overflowing scourge that heals or makes whole whatever it touches. We ascend the 'mount' of the Lord so we can be changed into that image/likeness, to go back DOWN the mount as 'lava'. We become the 'lake of fire'. It was never intended to be a 'bad thing', but men's carnal minds interpreted it as such. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

The Lake of the Fire.

Interesting note that Tony (White Wings) has pointed out to me about the Christian Bible - notice the capitalization of Lake of Fire and Sulphur.  We've both wondered if that indicates Deity, i.e., proper "names".

If the caps really point to something divine = Father = refiners fire, then "the Fire" is like a title.
If so... the following may grammatically not correct but I think it more clearly shows the meaning of the verse...

The Lake of HIS Fire.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Godfire

[thinktank]

Interesting post about the lake of fire being in the dead sea.

But nevertheless I allways though of the lake of fire as being spiritual, an all consuming flame of the lord that burns away the carnality of the mind. For if it were a physical fire, then if the wicked were thrown in they would simply burn and die. Which supports the idea of Annihilation, theory, which sometimes I do tend to sway towards as a doctrine.

The great white throne is indicated as being in heaven, so I assume the lake of fire will also be someplace in heaven.

I've also heard another idea that the great white throne judgement, interpretated as where the dead will be resurected upon the Earth and will be judged upon the New Earth where Jesus Christ and his saints and his Gospel rules, and they the wicked will be judged according to their works, and if the unrighteous continue to be unrighteous and refuse to repent, then they will be cast away from the people and utterly destroyed. This idea does seem to match up with Gods mercy, by giving the wicked another chance, but also makes more sense of the various scriptures throughout the bible who say that the wicked will be cut of from the Earth and utterly destroyed. This type of language is spoken of throughout the new testament.

Jesus Christ would have all men to be saved. This implies that not all men will desire to be saved.

He that taketh the words away from this book, will not be a partaker of the tree of life.

There is a sin unto death etc etc

[WhiteWings]

But nevertheless I allways though of the lake of fire as being spiritual, an all consuming flame of the lord that burns away the carnality of the mind. For if it were a physical fire, then if the wicked were thrown in they would simply burn and die. Which supports the idea of Annihilation, theory, which sometimes I do tend to sway towards as a doctrine.

The great white throne is indicated as being in heaven, so I assume the lake of fire will also be someplace in heaven.

I agree with all you wrote. But about the location of LoF I'm not sure. Could be in heaven could be just everywhere. Really don't know.
I can't remember were I read it but the Jew (or everyone in the area) seem to had a saying similar to "It's useles, cast in in to the sea."
(I'm aware Gehenna was the garbarge dump)
Personally I think we gain extra understanding if you know the society in which the writer lived.
Jesus' parables always used common things as an example. No mysterious thing no one ever heard of. Often farming related things like wheat and sheep.
Could it be that LoF is also a sort of parable using something very well known to the audience of that time? A real lake/sea everyone knew about.
Like the parable of the lost sheep is how a human shepherd works. But also the Holy Shepherd.
Maybe the LoF parable (if it is one) also has literal meaning that possibly was clearly understood in those days.
And if we know the exact literal meaning the spiritual meaning may get a little easier to understand.....
:dontknow:

[CHB]

But nevertheless I allways though of the lake of fire as being spiritual, an all consuming flame of the lord that burns away the carnality of the mind. For if it were a physical fire, then if the wicked were thrown in they would simply burn and die. Which supports the idea of Annihilation, theory, which sometimes I do tend to sway towards as a doctrine.

The great white throne is indicated as being in heaven, so I assume the lake of fire will also be someplace in heaven.

I agree agree with all you wrote. But about teh location of LoF I'm not sure.
I can't remember were I read it but the Jew (or everyone in the area) seem to had a saying similar to "It's useles, cast in in to the sea."
(I'm aware Gehenna was the garbarge dump)
Personally I think we gain extra understanding if you know the society in which the writer lived.
Jesus' parables always used common things as an example. No mysterious thing no one ever heard of. Often farming related things like wheat and sheep.
Could it be that LoF is also a sort of parable using something very well known to the audience of that time? A real lake/sea everyone knew about.
Like the parable of the lost sheep is how a human shepherd works. But also the Holy Shepherd.
Maybe the LoF parable (if it is one) also has literal meaning that possibly was clearly understood in those days.
And if we know the exact literal meaning the spiritual meaning amy get a little easier to understand.....
:dontknow:

Hi WhiteWings,

This is what I thought also.

CHB

[micah7:9]

Lake   G3041   lim'-nay
Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.
G3040
lee-mane'
Apparently a primary word; a harbor: - haven. Compare G2568.
G2568   kal-oy' lee-man'-es
Plural of G2570 and G3040; Good Harbors, that is, Fairhaven, a bay of Crete: - fair havens.
G2570  kal-os'
Of uncertain affinity; properly beautiful, but chiefly (figuratively) good (literally or morally), that is, valuable or virtuous (for appearance or use, and thus distinguished from G18, which is properly intrinsic): - X better, fair, good (-ly), honest, meet, well, worthy.
FIRE  G4442  pur; from which we get our English word "pure"  A primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.

[WhiteWings]

Correct.

I wrote something similar in this thread.

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=6864.0

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen. The fire of God purifies; that's how His judgments are unto victory. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

When one looks at that verse closely, it tells us very much about the environment around the Dead Sea as it existed in the time of Jude! There were then active fires and smoke in the area. Strabo, the 1st century geographer, described the neighborhood as "a land of fires." 1 Some of the fires were fed by the seepage of naphtha (an old name for petroleum), bitumen, and other gaseous fumes.This historical reference indicates that the Dead Sea region was then, back at that time, still smoking from subterranean fires. Diodorus Siculus, who also lived in the 1st century BC, said: "The fire which burns beneath the ground and the stench render the inhabitants of the neighboring country sickly and very short-lived" (Book 2.48.8).
So at the time of Jesus there still was volcanic activity in the dead sea.

Is one of the signs of His return volcanic activity in the dead sea?

[shawn]

Just a thought.  When you read and have a fuller understanding of scriptures I believe there is stronger evidence for Anhiliation or UR.  With that said, is it possible both view points are right?  Is it even possible that all three are correct (ET, UR, AHN)?  Finite beings love to think in terms of either/or...but I think it's entirely possible that judgement is a mixture.  Could people be placed in Gehenna for purification and still reject?  That would seem to line up more with free will.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Do you really think anyone placed in that kind of judgment WOULD reject? Blessings...

[Beloved Servant]

aka— Lake of THE Desire

[thinktank]

Just a thought.  When you read and have a fuller understanding of scriptures I believe there is stronger evidence for Anhiliation or UR.  With that said, is it possible both view points are right?  Is it even possible that all three are correct (ET, UR, AHN)?  Finite beings love to think in terms of either/or...but I think it's entirely possible that judgement is a mixture.  Could people be placed in Gehenna for purification and still reject?  That would seem to line up more with free will.

You could be right depending on what happens. Eg. if Anhilation is true then pain will happen for that brief moment until the person is destroyed, but if UR is true then torture/pain will take place as the person is purged of their sins, anyone who does not agree with this is denying the reality that even now as we follow Christ, dying to sins and self is a painfull process, so how much more painful to those who rejected Christ in this lifetime and choose to sin. But there is no room for eternal torture with UR, unless the person refuses to be cleansed and fights the cleansing for eternity, which I think is impossible. But whether it is UR or Anhilation the wicked will be destroyed, so I don't see those 2 being that more righteous than each other, personally I prefer Anhilation and I think is more just and loving of our creator but I don't really care if UR happens to be true, both are ok with me and are consistent with scriptures.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Shawn... :hithere:

Just a thought.  When you read and have a fuller understanding of scriptures I believe there is stronger evidence for Anhiliation or UR.  With that said, is it possible both view points are right?  Is it even possible that all three are correct (ET, UR, AHN)?  Finite beings love to think in terms of either/or...but I think it's entirely possible that judgement is a mixture.  Could people be placed in Gehenna for purification and still reject?  That would seem to line up more with free will.

No offense new brother...

(1)  "Free will" is an unBiblical issue (not mentioned in it)... and,

(2)  one which is not to be debated on this forum, so it does not need to be "aligned" with issues which ARE Biblical that can be debated on this forum...

So as we discuss the matters of the WORD, we must be able to discuss and prove our views without using disallowed premises in that presentation...  :winkgrin:

...'ol willieH  :cloud9:

[jabcat]

Thanks Willi  Keepin' it on the rails!  :bigGrin:. 

[willieH]

willieH: Hi thinktank...   :happygrin:

You could be right depending on what happens. Eg. if Anhilation is true then pain will happen for that brief moment until the person is destroyed, but if UR is true then torture/pain will take place as the person is purged of their sins, anyone who does not agree with this is denying the reality that even now as we follow Christ, dying to sins and self is a painfull process, so how much more painful to those who rejected Christ in this lifetime and choose to sin. But there is no room for eternal torture with UR, unless the person refuses to be cleansed and fights the cleansing for eternity, which I think is impossible. But whether it is UR or Anhilation the wicked will be destroyed, so I don't see those 2 being that more righteous than each other, personally I prefer Anhilation and I think is more just and loving of our creator but I don't really care if UR happens to be true, both are ok with me and are consistent with scriptures.

In what way can the HEINOUS ACTS of HITLER (death by FIRE) be seen as UNLOVING and UNMERCIFUL, and the VERY SAME act (death by FIRE) done by GOD as LOVING and MERCIFUL?  :faint:  I call this, FORKED TONGUE... :blahgreen: :blah:  DOUBLETALK...  :sigh:

No offense, brother tt... but this post IS total fence sitting confusion, as to conclusionary TRUTH...

Furthermore, you INDIFFERENTLY state --- "I don't really care if UR happens to be true" --- because IN ANY EVENT of these 3 possibilities, you have CENTERED upon YOURSELF, and safely conclude yourSELF as SAVED from ET or ANNHILATION should they be that which actually unfolds... :rolleye: ...and of course if UR is "true" you are included as well... :rolleye:

You propose that though you "prefer to believe ANNHILATION" ...and that if indeed either ANNHILATION or UR happens,  ...that an ACT EQUIVALENT to HITLERS burning of the JEWS [annhilation] is "okay" with you!  That those poor JEWS must go through yet another BURNING DEATH!   :thumbdown:

In this MUCH LESS than "MERCIFUL" and INDIFFERENT thinking, ...you in fact remain a proponent of Law  oriented "eye for eye" ...JUSTICE, which in RECOMPENSE thinks a LOVING Creator shall END the LIVES which He is ABLE to SAVE -- which EMBRACES the ACTS of LAW which carried [law=eye for eye = ET/Annhilation/purgatory] REVENGE, are they which shall be engaged in the end, ...which can only be equated to an ANTI-GRACE / ANTI LIFE position...

No man can "pay" for even ONE SIN in any amount of time be it ONE SECOND or ETERNITY in a FIRE... ... so you pick "ANNHILATION" as the "MERCIFUL" option... thinking that it is MERCIFUL in some way that anyone be DESTROYED by FIRE?  How unrealistic it this?  If you were numbered amongst these, would FIRE be considered by YOU as a "MERCIFUL" end? :dunno:  

:omg: Thinking from a position which does not come close to communicating having a realistic perspective of LITERAL FIRE!  :wacko2:  Have you ever even SLIGHTLY been burned, thinktank?   :dontknow:

Put your smallest finger over a small lit match for even 5 seconds... that might just give you a "tip of your finger" idea of the option of "ANNHILATION" you pick as "JUST and LOVING" by the "Creator"... :rolleye:  

Hey, YOU don't have to experience the FIRE... but, ...too bad for those who do - eh?  :mshock: What careless and UNSPIRITUAL thinking... certainly NOT compassionate, nor merciful in any way.

CHRIST plainly taught such UNFORGIVING or REVENGE oriented dealings with fellow men, was NO LONGER to be DONE, by His followers, ...to which YOU do not presently adhere:

Matt 5:38-39 --- Ye have "heard" [in the Levitical law - Lev 24:20] that it hath been said, AN EYE FOR AN EYE, and a TOOTH FOR A TOOTH --- but I say unto you, that ye RESIST NOT EVIL; but whosever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn unto him the other also...

Matt 5:43-45 --- Ye have "heard" [in the Psalms -- Psalm 41:10] that it hath been said, THOU SHALT LOVE thy NEIGHBOR and HATE THINE ENEMY --- but I say unto you LOVE YOUR ENEMIES... BLESS them that CURSE YOU, ...DO GOOD unto them that HATE YOU, and... PRAY for them that DESPITEFULLY USE YOU... that you may be CHILDREN of your Father which is in heaven...

Matt 5:48 --- be ye THEREFORE PERFECT, ...as your Father in heaven ...IS PERFECT!

This defines our FATHER GOD to be

(1)  LOVING, and,
(2)  BLESSING and GOOD unto those who are HIS ENEMIES that,
(3)  CURSE HIM, and that HATE HIM...  :dontknow:

A SAVIOR which is LOVE... is NEVER upon an agenda to TORMENT His BELOVED creatures for a moment or an eternity...


 :cheerleader:  :boogie: :boogie:  :Gdance: :boogie: :boogie:  :cheerleader:

Not that you will... but,

I do Hope that you (and anyone else reading along), shall take a moment in reflection of what I am about to say to you, ...  :cloud9:

Most BIBLE STUDENTS, view the LOF --- which (is a SYMBOLIC notation to begin with and) IS part of the REVEALING of the WORD of GOD [JESUS CHRIST] ...as a LITERAL entity, which finds its only reference within the SYMBOLIC book of REVELATION.  That somehow, the FIRE of GOD is not about BLESSING man but brings RECOMPENSE to him instead...  

This is an ANTI-GRACE, LAW oriented and foundationally, LAW based position...  For CHRIST plainly noted that we are to no longer take such a position with MEN, as I have already noted above, and the Apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, gave us a 2nd witness of this -- 2 Cor 5:16

If He required of us to do so deal with men, then He would be HYPOCRITICAL in enacting such FEARFUL things as HELL, ANNHILATION or BURNING in a LITERAL FIRE for whatever recompense might be "due"...  If He indeed tasted DEATH for all men... which He did... then LIFE IN Him is what awaits us, not TORMENT -- 1 Cor 15:22

The WORD of GOD is the MAKER of all things MADE -- John 1:3 -- and MAKES all things AS they ARE, whether those "things" in fact appear within this REALM as HONORABLE or DISHONORABLE -- Rom 9:20  Part of the PURPOSE of DISHONOR is to REVEAL what HONOR... IS... for without one, the other is left without a defining opposite.

This is WHY, God notes that HE RAISED Pharoah to do what he "did"... and WHY it GLORIFIED Him... for without a IMPRISONING entity [Pharoah/sin], how might the DELIVERER, ...deliver those whichwere/are IMPRISONED, ...from said bondage?  

The reality and PURPOSED existence of the IMPRISONING entity, is in fact PART of the GLORY of the DELIVERANCE... that EVIL shall NEVER in even ONE IOTA... continue to prevail over GOOD -- Rom 5:20 -- ANNHILATION and ET propose the opposite... that EVIL on a ETERNAL basis, prevailed over GOOD, and that SIN so prevailed over GRACE...  This is NOT a PERFECT result.  GOD has noted that DEATH and SORROW and PAIN shall pass away -- Rev 21:4 -- not CONTINUE...

If even ONE is left in PAIN, then PAIN continues to be,
If even ONE is in SORROW, then SORROW continues to be,
If even ONE is DEAD, then DEATH continues to be,

and  :crywipe: Rev 21:4 is found to be a FALSE WITNESS...

SIN imprisons us... and it GLORIFIES GOD to deliver us FROM IT... without the existence and reality of SIN, there is NO GLORY, and subsequently, even a necessity for DELIVERANCE which brings GLORY to Him...  :dontknow:

It is within the WORD (which is GOD), that we find ourselves as well as all other existent things ---> Acts 17:28 -- also within the WORD, ...IS the KNOWLEDGE (of Good and Evil) ---> Gen 3:22 -- And as well, the charcteristic of WORD which IS GOD, is also ...a CONSUMING FIRE -- Heb 12:29 -- which in the business and agenda of consuming EVIL, and thereby reveals HIS CHILDREN of HONOR -- Rom 9:23 -- Rom 8:20

THIS is a much MUCH... bigger deal than any of us can at this time, possibly imagine it to be...

We are the CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH GOD... in process of REVELATION (being revealed).  The 1st Son (which did not first appear in His GLORY) which is the FIRSTFRUIT of the CHILDREN, ...IS being REVEALED in US, which are also SONS... which is a MAJESTIC GLORY beyond any limited finite, ...IMAGINATION or perception...

In the REVEALING of the [living] KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... is the WORD "revealed"... as well as the LOF which IS the CONSUMING FIRE of the WORD... and that consuming portion of Itself which MAKES ALL things NEW and ALIVE (which is the RECONCILIATION by GOOD of) THAT which HAS become (due to envolvement with the revelation of EVIL and its knowledge) OLD and DEAD -- 1 Cor 15:22 -- John 14:6 -- 2 Cor 5:17

Most view the book of REVELATION as an account of the FUTURE, but the WORD is BOTH the ALPHA and OMEGA of ALL THINGS -- Rev 1:8 -- Rev 22:13 -- and as ALL THINGS are REVEALED (whether good or evil)... so is the WORD being REVEALED... By which ALL THINGS (whether good or evil) CONSIST -- Col 1:16-17

It is not by COINCIDENCE that the ALPHA and OMEGA are mentioned in the 1st and LAST portions of the book of Revelation...  For CHRIST is The FIRST (thing) ---> everything in between --> and the LAST (thing)... concerning this REALM and ALL things within it, that are MADE to appear IN IT...

Within THIS REALM is the LAKE of FIRE... which consumes all TEMPORAL acts of EVIL done within it, never to BE repeated again:

Nahum 1:9 -- what do ye imagine against YHVH?  HE will make an UTTER END... AFFLICTION [#H6869 = TSARAH = adversity] shall NOT RISE up the SECOND TIME.

The FIRE is found in anything which causes or experiences SORROW... for it is in the EXIT of the FIRE which also TRIED CHRIST -- Heb 2:10 -- Rev 3:18 -- and the entry of the JOY of the YHVH, that all LEAVE sorrow, as each LEAVES this realm -- Matt 25:21 -- The "talents" are GOOD, multiplied via the doings of GOOD within this REALM of EVIL... which shall survive this realm of FIRE, and ever ABIDE to GLORIFY GOD, in the eternal -- 1 Cor 3:11-15

ALL GLORY is due Him... NONE is due unto us... it is beneficially SHED upon us... For He is the GOD OF GLORY -- Psalm 29:3

...'ol   willieH  :cloud9:

[Beloved Servant]

wow

If even ONE is left in PAIN, then PAIN continues to be,
If even ONE is in SORROW, then SORROW continues to be,
If even ONE is DEAD, then DEATH continues to be,

and :crywipe: Rev 21:4 is found to be a FALSE WITNESS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                       wow

[micah7:9]

"ALL GLORY is due Him... NONE is due unto us... it is beneficially SHED upon us... For He is the GOD OF GLORY -- Psalm 29:3"
Now thats a Glory Hallehljua!

[coldwar]

I've also heard another idea that the great white throne judgement, interpretated as where the dead will be resurected upon the Earth and will be judged upon the New Earth where Jesus Christ and his saints and his Gospel rules, and they the wicked will be judged according to their works, and if the unrighteous continue to be unrighteous and refuse to repent, then they will be cast away from the people and utterly destroyed. This idea does seem to match up with Gods mercy, by giving the wicked another chance, but also makes more sense of the various scriptures throughout the bible who say that the wicked will be cut of from the Earth and utterly destroyed. This type of language is spoken of throughout the new testament.

Jesus Christ would have all men to be saved. This implies that not all men will desire to be saved.

This is exactly the way I have come to believe. In fact, as you say "... giving the wicked another chance" - it will actually be the first chance for the majority of people who ever lived on this earth, having never heard about the one true Word.

[thinktank]

willieH: Hi thinktank...   :happygrin:



In what way can the HEINOUS ACTS of HITLER (death by FIRE) be seen as UNLOVING and UNMERCIFUL, and the VERY SAME act (death by FIRE) done by GOD as LOVING and MERCIFUL?  :faint:  I call this, FORKED TONGUE... :blahgreen: :blah:  DOUBLETALK...  :sigh:

No offense, brother tt... but this post IS total fence sitting confusion, as to conclusionary TRUTH...

[\quote]

No offense taken, I don't allways post to establish doctrinal truth, but sometimes to chat and express my opinion, that ok with you?

Furthermore, you INDIFFERENTLY state --- "I don't really care if UR happens to be true" --- because IN ANY EVENT of these 3 possibilities, you have CENTERED upon YOURSELF, and safely conclude yourSELF as SAVED from ET or ANNHILATION should they be that which actually unfolds... :rolleye: ...and of course if UR is "true" you are included as well... :rolleye:

You propose that though you "prefer to believe ANNHILATION" ...and that if indeed either ANNHILATION or UR happens,  ...that an ACT EQUIVALENT to HITLERS burning of the JEWS [annhilation] is "okay" with you!  That those poor JEWS must go through yet another BURNING DEATH!   :thumbdown:

[quote/]

Umm I find this to be a bit offensive and slightly manupilative perhaps, at what point did I state I want the Jews to be burned  :dontknow:

In this MUCH LESS than "MERCIFUL" and INDIFFERENT thinking, ...you in fact remain a proponent of Law  oriented "eye for eye" ...JUSTICE, which in RECOMPENSE thinks a LOVING Creator shall END the LIVES which He is ABLE to SAVE -- which EMBRACES the ACTS of LAW which carried [law=eye for eye = ET/Annhilation/purgatory] REVENGE, are they which shall be engaged in the end, ...which can only be equated to an ANTI-GRACE / ANTI LIFE position...

No man can "pay" for even ONE SIN in any amount of time be it ONE SECOND or ETERNITY in a FIRE... ... so you pick "ANNHILATION" as the "MERCIFUL" option... thinking that it is MERCIFUL in some way that anyone be DESTROYED by FIRE?  How unrealistic it this?  If you were numbered amongst these, would FIRE be considered by YOU as a "MERCIFUL" end? :dunno:  

[quote/]

I agree Christ says don't take revenge, but yet also says that judgement is mine and judgment will take its place. If I were evil and preferred evil over good, just like Satan, then I probably would prefer annhilation to spending an eternity living a lie.

:omg: Thinking from a position which does not come close to communicating having a realistic perspective of LITERAL FIRE!  :wacko2:  Have you ever even SLIGHTLY been burned, thinktank?   :dontknow:

Put your smallest finger over a small lit match for even 5 seconds... that might just give you a "tip of your finger" idea of the option of "ANNHILATION" you pick as "JUST and LOVING" by the "Creator"... :rolleye:

[quote/]

I know its painful, fire is a terribly painful, but it is a quick death compared to living a lie forever. Living forever in a place of righteousness might not be paradise for some people, i.e the wicked. If the wicked repent and choose to follow Christ then that is between them and God, you think I will be mad, I don't think I will mad, I will be glad that I am saved and glad for all people that are saved.
 

CHRIST plainly taught such UNFORGIVING or REVENGE oriented dealings with fellow men, was NO LONGER to be DONE, by His followers, ...to which YOU do not presently adhere:
[quote/]

"To which YOU do not presently adhere"
How do you know? have you set up secret cameras in my place and watch hard to see me fall?
I believe in mercy and what you said is not true, I don't recall saying I belive in ET, so stop treating me like one please.

Matt 5:38-39 --- Ye have "heard" [in the Levitical law - Lev 24:20] that it hath been said, AN EYE FOR AN EYE, and a TOOTH FOR A TOOTH --- but I say unto you, that ye RESIST NOT EVIL; but whosever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn unto him the other also...

Matt 5:43-45 --- Ye have "heard" [in the Psalms -- Psalm 41:10] that it hath been said, THOU SHALT LOVE thy NEIGHBOR and HATE THINE ENEMY --- but I say unto you LOVE YOUR ENEMIES... BLESS them that CURSE YOU, ...DO GOOD unto them that HATE YOU, and... PRAY for them that DESPITEFULLY USE YOU... that you may be CHILDREN of your Father which is in heaven...

Matt 5:48 --- be ye THEREFORE PERFECT, ...as your Father in heaven ...IS PERFECT!

This defines our FATHER GOD to be

(1)  LOVING, and,
(2)  BLESSING and GOOD unto those who are HIS ENEMIES that,
(3)  CURSE HIM, and that HATE HIM...  :dontknow:

A SAVIOR which is LOVE... is NEVER upon an agenda to TORMENT His BELOVED creatures for a moment or an eternity...


 :cheerleader:  :boogie: :boogie:  :Gdance: :boogie: :boogie:  :cheerleader:
[quote/]

I agree in part, but what you said is not entirely true about God. Sorry to break your bubble but God can be mean sometimes, the same God you worship is the same God that Job worshipped and found himself being tormented by Satan by Gods permission. The same God also destroyed Nineveh, Sodom, the same God will also pour out a vial upon those who take the mark of the beast and torment them for 5-6 months. The same God also chatises you and me and every Christian for our misbehaviour.

[quote/]

Not that you will... but,

I do Hope that you (and anyone else reading along), shall take a moment in reflection of what I am about to say to you, ...  :cloud9:

Most BIBLE STUDENTS, view the LOF --- which (is a SYMBOLIC notation to begin with and) IS part of the REVEALING of the WORD of GOD [JESUS CHRIST] ...as a LITERAL entity, which finds its only reference within the SYMBOLIC book of REVELATION.  That somehow, the FIRE of GOD is not about BLESSING man but brings RECOMPENSE to him instead...  

This is an ANTI-GRACE, LAW oriented and foundationally, LAW based position...  For CHRIST plainly noted that we are to no longer take such a position with MEN, as I have already noted above, and the Apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, gave us a 2nd witness of this -- 2 Cor 5:16

If He required of us to do so deal with men, then He would be HYPOCRITICAL in enacting such FEARFUL things as HELL, ANNHILATION or BURNING in a LITERAL FIRE for whatever recompense might be "due"...  If He indeed tasted DEATH for all men... which He did... then LIFE IN Him is what awaits us, not TORMENT -- 1 Cor 15:22

The WORD of GOD is the MAKER of all things MADE -- John 1:3 -- and MAKES all things AS they ARE, whether those "things" in fact appear within this REALM as HONORABLE or DISHONORABLE -- Rom 9:20  Part of the PURPOSE of DISHONOR is to REVEAL what HONOR... IS... for without one, the other is left without a defining opposite.

This is WHY, God notes that HE RAISED Pharoah to do what he "did"... and WHY it GLORIFIED Him... for without a IMPRISONING entity [Pharoah/sin], how might the DELIVERER, ...deliver those whichwere/are IMPRISONED, ...from said bondage?  

The reality and PURPOSED existence of the IMPRISONING entity, is in fact PART of the GLORY of the DELIVERANCE... that EVIL shall NEVER in even ONE IOTA... continue to prevail over GOOD -- Rom 5:20 -- ANNHILATION and ET propose the opposite... that EVIL on a ETERNAL basis, prevailed over GOOD, and that SIN so prevailed over GRACE...  This is NOT a PERFECT result.  GOD has noted that DEATH and SORROW and PAIN shall pass away -- Rev 21:4 -- not CONTINUE...

If even ONE is left in PAIN, then PAIN continues to be,
If even ONE is in SORROW, then SORROW continues to be,
If even ONE is DEAD, then DEATH continues to be,

and  :crywipe: Rev 21:4 is found to be a FALSE WITNESS...

SIN imprisons us... and it GLORIFIES GOD to deliver us FROM IT... without the existence and reality of SIN, there is NO GLORY, and subsequently, even a necessity for DELIVERANCE which brings GLORY to Him...  :dontknow:

It is within the WORD (which is GOD), that we find ourselves as well as all other existent things ---> Acts 17:28 -- also within the WORD, ...IS the KNOWLEDGE (of Good and Evil) ---> Gen 3:22 -- And as well, the charcteristic of WORD which IS GOD, is also ...a CONSUMING FIRE -- Heb 12:29 -- which in the business and agenda of consuming EVIL, and thereby reveals HIS CHILDREN of HONOR -- Rom 9:23 -- Rom 8:20

THIS is a much MUCH... bigger deal than any of us can at this time, possibly imagine it to be...

We are the CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH GOD... in process of REVELATION (being revealed).  The 1st Son (which did not first appear in His GLORY) which is the FIRSTFRUIT of the CHILDREN, ...IS being REVEALED in US, which are also SONS... which is a MAJESTIC GLORY beyond any limited finite, ...IMAGINATION or perception...

In the REVEALING of the [living] KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... is the WORD "revealed"... as well as the LOF which IS the CONSUMING FIRE of the WORD... and that consuming portion of Itself which MAKES ALL things NEW and ALIVE (which is the RECONCILIATION by GOOD of) THAT which HAS become (due to envolvement with the revelation of EVIL and its knowledge) OLD and DEAD -- 1 Cor 15:22 -- John 14:6 -- 2 Cor 5:17

Most view the book of REVELATION as an account of the FUTURE, but the WORD is BOTH the ALPHA and OMEGA of ALL THINGS -- Rev 1:8 -- Rev 22:13 -- and as ALL THINGS are REVEALED (whether good or evil)... so is the WORD being REVEALED... By which ALL THINGS (whether good or evil) CONSIST -- Col 1:16-17

It is not by COINCIDENCE that the ALPHA and OMEGA are mentioned in the 1st and LAST portions of the book of Revelation...  For CHRIST is The FIRST (thing) ---> everything in between --> and the LAST (thing)... concerning this REALM and ALL things within it, that are MADE to appear IN IT...

Within THIS REALM is the LAKE of FIRE... which consumes all TEMPORAL acts of EVIL done within it, never to BE repeated again:

Nahum 1:9 -- what do ye imagine against YHVH?  HE will make an UTTER END... AFFLICTION [#H6869 = TSARAH = adversity] shall NOT RISE up the SECOND TIME.

The FIRE is found in anything which causes or experiences SORROW... for it is in the EXIT of the FIRE which also TRIED CHRIST -- Heb 2:10 -- Rev 3:18 -- and the entry of the JOY of the YHVH, that all LEAVE sorrow, as each LEAVES this realm -- Matt 25:21 -- The "talents" are GOOD, multiplied via the doings of GOOD within this REALM of EVIL... which shall survive this realm of FIRE, and ever ABIDE to GLORIFY GOD, in the eternal -- 1 Cor 3:11-15

ALL GLORY is due Him... NONE is due unto us... it is beneficially SHED upon us... For He is the GOD OF GLORY -- Psalm 29:3

...'ol   willieH  :cloud9:

Maybe, but like I said it doesn't bother me if what you say happens to be true. My faith is in God that he will do that which is right, whether that be Anhilation or UR, both give all people a chance to follow Jesus.
:cloud9: