Who is Satan?

[crescent moon]

Okay...I see what all are saying about Satan being an "adversary."
Then what of all the Scriptures of demons being cast out of people...demon possession, etc?
Please be patient with me, I come from a very Pentecostal background...a background where I was taught watching anything 'demonic' or witchcraft related can open my life up to such influences and eventually possess me.
I know, I know!  Many are laughing as they read this! 
I can also remember ministry experiences on the mission field where I KNOW I came in contact with forces, witches (whatever you want to call them).  Was all that in my head?  Are we saying those thing don't exist or that, in Jesus' name, we have power over them?  If it's all bologna, should I still be entertained by it...my heart still says 'no'.  BUT I can see how not buying into these beliefs can free me from a certain letter of the Law ingrained in me by the 'religious.'

I would like to read any input, especially coming from those of you have come from a similar background and how this has been worked out in your mind and hearts.

I am still sooooo new to UR and all the new things God is teaching me BUT still soooo ingrained with the doctrines I had pounded into the very fiber of my being! Soooo bound up by traditions of men!
Lord Jesus, please free me from all that is not true freedom in You!  Teach me to worship you in spirit and truth!

[Beloved Servant]

Amen.
And what a beautiful prayer.

[Beloved Servant]

I personally do not watch any TV or movies that contain demonic themes simply because, well,
they are very adverse to me.
I find them repulsive and unbearable to endure.
So perhaps there is a truth to the Pentecostal teachings.
Paul tells us that we fight not against flesh and blood but with powers and principalities of the darkness.

Ephesians: 6;12
For ours is not a conflict with mere flesh and blood, but with the despotisms, the empires, the forces that control and govern this dark world--the spiritual hosts of evil arrayed against us in the heavenly warfare.

We come in contact with these powers everyday in the unregenerated souls who do their constant bidding.
No it's not in your head — it's just that your spiritual eyes are open!

[chuckt]

 ""principalities" and powers  were spoiled at the cross:

and just WHAT are these?

Col 2:14   Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 


Col 2:15   [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 


Col 2:16   Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 


it is true our war is not with flesh and blood, you cant beat the truth into anyone, and these powers have no power over flesh and blood, the battle is in the MIND, the heavenly places.

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/chuckart/th_temple8.gif)

the mind is the holy of holies in our temple........

chuckt

[Cardinal]

Okay...I see what all are saying about Satan being an "adversary."
Then what of all the Scriptures of demons being cast out of people...demon possession, etc?
Please be patient with me, I come from a very Pentecostal background...a background where I was taught watching anything 'demonic' or witchcraft related can open my life up to such influences and eventually possess me.
I know, I know!  Many are laughing as they read this! 
I can also remember ministry experiences on the mission field where I KNOW I came in contact with forces, witches (whatever you want to call them).  Was all that in my head?  Are we saying those thing don't exist or that, in Jesus' name, we have power over them?  If it's all bologna, should I still be entertained by it...my heart still says 'no'.  BUT I can see how not buying into these beliefs can free me from a certain letter of the Law ingrained in me by the 'religious.'

I would like to read any input, especially coming from those of you have come from a similar background and how this has been worked out in your mind and hearts.

I am still sooooo new to UR and all the new things God is teaching me BUT still soooo ingrained with the doctrines I had pounded into the very fiber of my being! Soooo bound up by traditions of men!
Lord Jesus, please free me from all that is not true freedom in You!  Teach me to worship you in spirit and truth!

:cloud9: Hi; I would be considered of "Pentecostal" background myself although I don't proclaim myself as such and never have, but fit that "label" due to my experience with the Holy Ghost in gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues.

When I first read the NT I couldn't find any other kind of "Christian" in there, except a born from above, Spirit-filled, tongue speaking type, and I STILL haven't 24 years later.

That aside, I was also led of the Lord into being a deliverance minister for several years, and YES, the powers and principalities of the air (spirit) ARE real entities.

The heart/soul of man is like a womb; it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it, and when He made us in His image that included the ability to create. WHAT we create, is the issue. The mind of Christ is as the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle pattern. Blessings and welcome to the forum......

[Nathan]

Who taught us that principalities and powers is refering to a demonic realm or world?  What it that has a different intent all together?

Titus 3:1
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,


If principalities and powers are demonic, then why on earth would Paul instruct Titus to remind people to be "subject" to them?  In other words, to be in subjection to them?  In the opening of chapter two, where this line of thought stems from, Paul exhorts Titus to preach this as "sound doctrine." 

I believe the church is missing it on this.

[chuckt]

i agree big time nathan....

here he seems to be talking about rules and regulations and such:

Col 2:14   Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 


Col 2:15   [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 


Col 2:16   Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's both. There are principalities and powers of the AIR, and there are people given positions of rulership and we are to obey the laws of the land. Blessings....

[chuckt]

:cloud9: It's both. There are principalities and powers of the AIR, and there are people given positions of rulership and we are to obey the laws of the land. Blessings....

floating up in the sky?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: A joker, eh?  :grin: You know what I mean.......air = breath = spirit.

[chuckt]

:cloud9: A joker, eh?  :grin: You know what I mean.......air = breath = spirit.

good! :icon_jokercolor: :happy3: :happy3: :happy3:

[Nathan]

Man . . .I just spent 20 minutes or so posting to this again but something must have happened as it's obviously not showing up.  

So Card, say you're right . . . which I personally tend to agree with as well.  But say it's both.  Then the next question I would as would be "which one do I need to be aware of the most?"  Do I identify with demonic activity and casting out demons everywhere I go?  

Or, do I identify  the powers of carnal men who've put themselves in high places . . .and not just physical men, but the carnality that influenced them to do it?  What influenced them can just as easily influence me.  What were most of the warnings to the church about?  Demons infiltraiting?  Or false doctrines . . .rudimental mindsets . . . religious enforcements?  Or worshiping satan?

Of the two, which are the most subtle of all the beasts in the field?  Which have the greatest potential in deceiving me?  Granted a part of Jesus ministry did establish the fact that his name had the power above all other forces above, on, and below the earth.  But that was not his predominant message, to cast out demons.  It was simply a "sign" revealing where the real authority was at.  He didn't teach about the principle of demons, but he did preach about the kingdom of heaven.  He didn't preach "against" demons, but he did preach against the religious mindsets.

2 Corinthians 10
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)  5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Not about demonic warfare, but it does seem to be dealing with the carnal mind.  Pulling down of strongholds and throwing down imaginations.  A stronghold is simply a principle that one chooses to be immovable on.  Bringing "thoughts" into captivity . . .it's not about demons, it's about religiousness.

Colossians 2
2That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;  3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Truth comes by way of revelation from the Father, not through proof of a written passage.  Because it's "hid" not from us, but "for" us.  It is Christ who removes the veil of understanding.  Sorry, I just read that in looking for something else.

A little further down, Paul actually connects prinipality and power with the rudiments, which actually means first principles.  It's not about demons, it's about religion overshadowing truth.

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.  9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.  10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi Nate........not saying it needs to be foremost in people's mindset, but it IS a first principle as the laying on of hands is listed as one of the things we leave to go unto perfection in Hebrews. People are in different stages in their walks and I feel we have to be mindful not to close a door to them that He brought us thru.

The laying on of hands came from the practice established in the Tabernacle service, and symbolized the flesh of man being dealt with, as I'm sure you know.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but spiritual. The reason they're spiritual is because it takes the spiritual to deal with the spiritual.

The spiritual weapons are needed to pull down the spiritual strongholds, which is why it's said that our weapons to deal with stongholds are not carnal, but spiritual.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the minds needing to be changed, just pointing out that the origin of thoughts can also be spiritual too.

To explain to people how subtle the enemy of our souls is, I usually ask people if they have ever been up high on a bridge or something and not had a thought about falling or even what it would be like to jump. I've never seen anyone yet say no.

The reason is Satan took Jesus up to a high pinnacle of the temple and told him to throw Himself down. The servant is not greater than the master, so both are tempted in this way.

The enemy of our soul speaks as a thought, not just as some demoniac voice from the movies. A thought is subtle. Which is why we are to renew our minds to learn to distinguish His thoughts from our thoughts and from the enemy's thoughts. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

the mind is the holy of holies in our temple........

chuckt

Hi Chuck,
Would you please explain your quote?
Thanks.

[Molly]

He didn't teach about the principle of demons, but he did preach about the kingdom of heaven.

It's kind of hand in glove, isn't it?

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

[Nathan]

Yes and no . . .Yes in that there's a connection, but no in that he never "taught" about demonic warfare or demons as much as he did about the principles of his kingdom, which does not, not for me anyway, operate on the demonic level.  In fact, the verse you quoted and another dealing with their amazment about the fact that demons respond to his name when they used it was more down playing the demonic and turning it around to emphasize the kingdom. 

The ability to cast out demons is not a platform to teach about demons, launch into a demon ministry, or have a movement emphasizing demonic manifestations.  It's simply a "sign" illuminating where the true authority lies.  It's not in man, it's in men but only through Christ.  A sign is simply something pointing to something greater.

[peacemaker]

Yes and no . . .Yes in that there's a connection, but no in that he never "taught" about demonic warfare or demons as much as he did about the principles of his kingdom, which does not, not for me anyway, operate on the demonic level.  In fact, the verse you quoted and another dealing with their amazment about the fact that demons respond to his name when they used it was more down playing the demonic and turning it around to emphasize the kingdom. 

The ability to cast out demons is not a platform to teach about demons, launch into a demon ministry, or have a movement emphasizing demonic manifestations.  It's simply a "sign" illuminating where the true authority lies.  It's not in man, it's in men but only through Christ.  A sign is simply something pointing to something greater.

Intuitive or direct recognition; an artist of rare perception  :thumbsup:

[Beloved Servant]

Yeah pm, that's good.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:.....It's HIS MINISTRY which unfolds as a natural by-product of HIS NATURE manifested as the anointing.

When He anointed them and sent them out, they found out then that the demons were subject to them. Why is that? Even the same reason the Gadarenes man's demons cried out in His presence.
Blessings.....

PS. And He DID teach on it more than you think; pages and pages. The separation of light from darkness is all thru the book. Deliverance is the separation of the two. Like everything else nearly, it is hid to the uniniated until it's their season.

[Beloved Servant]

I must be missing it.
I don't see any discord here.

[peacemaker]

Sometimes we hurt.
Sometimes our hearts ache.
Sometimes we cry out in pain.

peacemaker

[Molly]

The separation of light from darkness is all thru the book. Deliverance is the separation of the two.

Yes!  It's the first thing he does.


3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

--Gen 1

[chuckt]

I must be missing it.
I don't see any discord here.

the forum is so refreshing from whence i come....  :happy3:

[crescent moon]

Nathan & Cardinal (or anyone else):

Going off on another tangent, let's discuss obeying the law of the land.  How do we as Christians rectify that with "obeying God and not man"?  Where is the line drawn in this issue?  There are many examples in the Bible where people defied civil law!  Should those that help runaway slaves not have done so?  Should those that hid the Jews in WWII not have done so?  At what point as Christians should we take a stand against tyranny IF the Bible tells us to obey?
There are many instances where Jesus stated that civil issues such as paying taxes, breaking free from Roman tyranny, etc. were not what He came for?  Was the His way of saying we should just go along with it?
Does that mean we shouldn't be politically active or even be concerned with what's occurring the the political realms?
Should we just focus energies on Godly issues and when civil law requires us to do something unethical we take and stand and pay the civil consequences?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: As we get closer to God, the Spirit of God will direct our paths as to what we should do in every situation.

Sometimes when we break the law of the land unknowingly, I know from personal experience, He will "suspend" the law of the land punishment.

I'm thinking of a time I was driving, and talking to my daughter, not paying attention to the reduced speed zone in a well known speed trap area. The police sit there nearly daily, catching people and writing tickets.

So I was 20 mph over and by rights, should have gotten a ticket. When I saw the lights come on, I realized I was WAY over the limit, and started praying asking God for mercy (because I did it oblivious to my surroundings, not intentionally), and for favor with the policeman. He let me go. My  :2c: Blessings.....