TALK ABOUT THE HARD THINGS: NDE-OBE-VISIONS-BLIND PEOPLE SEE IN NDE

[SQ]

Wow this thread is amazing!!!  :HeartThrob:

[Bobson]

SQ: "Maybe Bobson or someone can comment on this experience."

ANS:Hello SQ, and THANK YOU for posting your story and telling us about it. Just disregard anyone telling you that the "devil" is playing tricks on you. This is a wonderful experience and you are fortunate to have seen your grandmother. I have not said this before in this thread, but I will now...this has happened to me on several occasions as well...I have seen my mother three times since she passed from this world, and I have seen the parents of a friend of mine who had passed, and I have seen the father of a fundamentalist minister friend of mine as well...I never knew his father...and when I described the man I saw to him he confirmed that this was what his dad looked like. Of course, since he is a fundamentalist he thinks his dad is in hell because he didn't make a commitment to Jesus...nonsense. After I described the man to him and he confirmed it, I told him that I had SEEN this man who was his dad...and of course he told me that it's "satan" deceiving me. It seems he finds it more believable to think his dad is in hell. I have also seen a lady, who obviously has passed (because I saw her), and I don't know this lady...but I know who her son is, I just don't know him either. This happened one time when I went to church...and I know it was her son who was sitting in front of me...I would love to tell him about it and describe the lady to him to get confirmation from him but I haven't got the nerve to do that...in case he thought I was a lunatic or in case it confused him.

Molly, how would you feel about telling us about one of the times that this happened to you? Who did you see?

[annuit coeptis]

The Satan is an angel whose purpose has been determined by G-d.
........
The truth is that Satan has a job to do, just like every other angel. And angels have no free will. They do as Hashem commands them.
........
When this world comes to an end, and the Next World begins, the Day of Judgment will take place. After that, Satan's work will be done.
There will no longer be any need for a Tempting Angel. Satan will cease to exist. It will not be a sad day at all.

Nor will it be unfair treatment of Satan. It will be like turning off a machine. Angels are not like humans, with human emotions and desires. They exist merely to follow Hashem's instructions, for the greater glory of Hashem.

Still very weird. Satan did follow orders to the letter. No matter what the orders were they came from Father. How can obeying Father lead to be "turning off like a machine"?
:dontknow:

I am not sure where the first post of Bobson's is but I have to throw a wrench in your thoughts Bob.

An Angle is only and will always forever be= a message dilervery system, i.e. one who brings a message..... but messages can come through a thing seen or herd , like a special sign only understood only by the person that understands the sign and that could be a good sign or a sign lead by the carnal nature of our mind [5 senses of man](bad sign),
no matter how man defines angle, the bottom line is this: if the word you speak brings the hearer His Life, then "YOU" are a messenger of Life ,Good, God. If your message brings the hearer death and sin, then you are a messenger of Death, Bad, Carnal nature, 5 senses, and you are still darkened by the church system....

So, I think that you bob should read your post above and see how messed up your thought process is if you understand the true nature of Angle ... this is not a cut down it is just trying to show you how bad the system has messed with our minds in the last 2010 years...

[Bobson]

I'm not really sure I understand that last post...my messed up thought processes? Messed up by the church? What church? Most churches I know are promoting a devil who in a war with God, and that seems pretty preposterous to me. Perhaps you want to take a look at this site regarding this devil...if that's what you were referring to, its penned by people who claim to be Christians:

http://www.realdevil.info/1-1.htm

[Bobson]

And by the way annuit coeptis...I'll thank you for refraining from using your "correct" understanding of "angle" and not judging me...so THANK YOU.

[SQ]

Hi Bob, when I was in the pentacostal movement everything good acccording to them was of the devil, I dared not to tell them this experience.
I was distraught and God comforted me with her appearance and I have never doubted it being anything but good, it helped me through out the years.
I know I will see her again, she is in God's care.
There has been some experiences God has gave me for comfort, I have learned not to box God in.
(I believe your experiences!)
I have another experience when I lost my best friend my dog to death, almost a year now.
God gave me comfort in that too, but most think especially with a dog I am out of my mind, so I don't mention to people face to face.

[Bobson]

Hello SQ, I'm happy for you that this happened with your grandmother...the things that have happened to me are very significant to me and I feel that I'm fortunate because I do not have to rely on blind faith.I would be very interested if you were willing to tell your story about a pet dog...I know many other people (and they are Christians) who say they have actually seen a deceased pet on more than one occasion even. Is this what happened to you? If you would rather send it to me as a private message, feel free to do that.

[rosered]

  wow !!! SQ................

  YOU TOO!! we had a dog we loved, he  was as  loyal as all get out  and friend for life  his name was AXEL  when he died that night in out utiliy room we all grieved so bad over his loss  ,my husband and son  took him out later that night and  buried him on the ridge a mile away  from the house !  my daughter was so upset  over his suffering howls  and death she slept with me  that  night   , but that  following morning we heard  him plain  a day  howl  one last time  , it was Axel ! and we both looked at each other and said you hear  that ?  she was  freaked out  and I said  Axel is still with us  Hon ,    most folks look for a reason not to Believe  in life after death , but I tell you there is sure Life after physical death

  and its Glory is  Gods power though Jesus Christ over  it / death the dead / the natural realm !  made know to those who  believe and know Gods power  and His glory over death in every form  and way ...
we will see him again , I just  know it by faith ,   that kind of love is eternal no matter what ''container ''  the Lord put it in  ,  our little angel Axel  is still among the living   though  he be dead ..


Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. 

  Gods power and LIFE  is what makes HIM aGREAT and MIGHTY GOD to serve !  :HeartThrob:

[SQ]

Hi rosered and Bob, rose your experience sent chills down my body cause was so similar to mine. Unfortunately my dog had heart and lung problems and couldn't breath anymore with comfort.
He had already lived longer by 18 months than vet said he would I gave him breathing meds and did everything I could to help him. He was so uncomfortable my husband and I chose to take to vet to put down, that was the hardest thing I ever did in my life, I still wish I could have done differently.
Anyway,he woke me up every morning with his bark.. every morning without fail, I heard him bark the next morning I wanted to pet him he wasn't there.
My husband heard him too.
Then a few days later I was sitting crying like I had done, then I saw this little fat dog run up to me as I was on hassock still crying he pranced around and was like look at me I can breath.
I could only stare at him he knew I loved him and always would.
He was gone that quick. I asked God to let me have my dog back when I take my last breath, cause he was so special he meant so much too me.
I hav   

[SQ]

My computer is acting up big time sent the post before I was finished so wanted to say sparrow and I exchanged a few pm here about our dogs that died almost a year for me.
I told her about his bark the day after, I still have those pm's been almost a year.
I have more to say but have to go pick up mothers medicine, hope to be back in a bit.  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

  That was awesome Sis!

   Thanks for sharing  your experience with us , it is like our Axel one   fur sure  :winkgrin: ! 

   Gods is Love ! and  the proof of the Fruit is in the Root ! 
   you cannot help but be rooted and grounded in Love  when God blesses  us  in such ways ...  this is by faith and not sight  :gangel:

but you did get to see   your little doggy , we did not see Axel 
but we still believe ... GOD is so good that way ............... :HeartThrob:
  Col 2:7   Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 

  God knows we love our ''little buddies''  soooo much , sometimes its easier to love  them  than our own  selves   at times :mshock:

    all things are possible with God !!   and without faith its impossible to please Him   

 
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 


Eph 3:17  That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 


Eph 3:18   May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 


Eph 3:19   And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you  might be filled with all the fulness of God. 


Eph 3:20  Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 


Eph 3:21   Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

  awesome !!I love this   Chapter !!!

[WhiteWings]

I knew a older man that used to listen to gospel/church music. His brother always complained his Hifi set was to loud. The night after his brother died his HiFi set suddenly was turned on quite loud.
The man was very convinced it was his brother sending a message.

[SQ]

I knew a older man that used to listen to gospel/church music. His brother always complained his Hifi set was to loud. The night after his brother died his HiFi set suddenly was turned on quite loud.
The man was very convinced it was his brother sending a message.

I can say God sure helps us get through our losses.

[Bobson]

WHITEWINGS: I knew a older man that used to listen to gospel/church music. His brother always complained his Hifi set was to loud. The night after his brother died his HiFi set suddenly was turned on quite loud.

ANS: That's a good story Whitewings, thanks for writing about it. I have a close friend whose dad passed several years ago. He and his dad were very close, and they had a Christian pastor friend who considered himself a musician, and made a recording of himself. My friend and his dad would listen to that recording and laugh among themselves because this recording was so bad! When my friend's dad had passed, this pastor friend of theirs insisted that this same song from his recording be played at the service, and of course, my friend and his family agreed. As soon as that particular song started playing at the service...the tape machine suddenly shut off and would not play anymore. My friend said he looked at his family and they all smiled, thinking "dad STILL doesn't like that song."

SQ, thanks for telling us about your dog friend, that's a great story as well, I appreciate you writing about it. I have a Christian friend who is actually a fundamentalist...her dog was hit by a car, but that evening she went into her room and saw the dog laying on the window ledge...she told me that she also saw the dog a couple of other times as well. I will also tell you that my sister and her husband had a cat that became ill and couldn't be helped and died. That evening her and her husband were sitting in their living room, and my sister felt the cat jump up on the couch and come and lay on her lap. She said that she couldn't see the cat but felt every step and even felt warmth when it came and laid on her lap. Unfortunately, fundamentalist Christians told her it was either her imagination or demons. Strangely, this event scared her for some reason, and she seemed to believe those fundamentalists...probably because she was afraid of what had happened.

And, Rosered, thank you for telling us about what happened with your beloved dog. There are so many people who have stories to tell like these that you, SQ, and Whitewings have written about...but so many who are Christians are not able to speak of these things because other people will tell them it is the devil, or that they are crazy.

[Bobson]

A STORY FOR "SQ" AND "ROSERED".....

Lynn, at age thirteen, who had a near-death experience in which he sees his beloved dogs in heaven. Lynn underwent open-heart surgery at age thirteen to correct a condition she had had almost since birth. She was unable to run and play with the other kids, and she would on occasion turn blue and get sick. A large black Great Dane named Harvey was her constant companion and best buddy. Lynn's near-death experience is described below:

The last thing I remember in surgery was a male voice saying in a very matter-of-fact way, "Uh-oh, we have a problem here."

The next thing I knew I was floating around the ceiling looking down on my body. My chest was open wide and I could see my internal organs. I remember thinking how odd it was that my organs were a beautiful pearl gray, not at all like the bright red chucks in the horror flicks I loved to watch. I also noticed there was a black doctor and an Oriental one on the operating team. The reason this stuck in my mind is that I was brought up in a very white middle-class neighborhood, and I had seen black schoolteachers but never a black doctor. I'd met the operating team the day before, but they were all white.

Suddenly, I had to move on, so I floated into the waiting room, where my parents were. My father had his head buried in my mother's lap. He was kneeling at her feet, his arms wrapped around her waist, and he was sobbing. My mother was stroking his head, whispering to him. This scene shocked me, as my father was not prone to showing emotions. Once I realize they would be fine, I felt myself pulled into a horizontal tunnel.

The ride through the tunnel was like nothing else. I remember thinking, "So this is death."
The tunnel was dark, and every once in a while something that looking like lightning would flash across my path. These flashes were brilliant in color and didn't scare me. At the end of the tunnel was a bright light.

From the light came two dogs of mine. One was a collie named Mimi who had died three years previously from an infection, and the other was a box named Sam who had died two years before after being hit by a car. The dogs came running and jumped on me and kissed my face with their tongues. Their tongues weren't wet, and I felt no weight when they jumped on me.  The dogs seemed to glow from a light that was inside them.

I recall saying to myself, "Thank you, God, for letting my dogs be alive."

I hugged my dogs as tight as I could.

I then called my dogs and together we started walking toward the light. All colors were in the light and it was warm, a living thing, and there were people as far as the eye could see, and they were glowing with an inner light - just like my dogs. In the distance I could see fields, hills, and a sky.

The light spoke and it said, "Lynn, it is not time for you yet.  Go back, child."

I put my hand up to touch the top of the light. I knew then that I had touched the face of God. I told God that I loved him, and I wanted to stay with him.

Again the light said, "Lynn, go back. It is not time for you. You have work to do for me.  Go back."

I know this sounds silly, but I asked the light, "If I go, can I come back and will my dogs still be here waiting for me?"

The light said yes, and then told me there were people who wanted to see me before I left. From out of the light came my maternal grandparents. I ran to them and embraced them. They were going to walk me part of the way back. Just as I was turning to leave, a man stepped from the light. He wore a full dress uniform, U.S. Navy.  He was very tall and very blond, with blue eyes. I had never seen the man before, but he knew me and smiled.

"I am your uncle Franklin. Tell Dorothy that I'm okay and that the baby is with me. Tell her I never stopped loving her and that I am glad she is doing well. Tell her that when her time comes, I will come for her. Remember to tell her I love her."

As I turned, the man shouted, "Tell Dorothy, tell her you met Franklin and I'm okay and so is the baby."

My grandparents told me if I stayed any longer I might not make it back. But I wanted to talk with Jesus. I had a very important question to ask him. A beam of light, different from yet similar to the first one, covered me. I knew this light was Christ. I leaned against it for one moment and then asked my question.

"Dear Jesus, is it true that you gave me this heart condition so that I would have a cross to carry like you did?"

(Sister Agnes, my sixth-grade teacher, had told me that my heart condition was my cross to bear from Christ.)   

I heard the voice of Christ vibrate through me as he said, "No, this heart condition of yours is not a cross from me for you to bear.  This heart condition is a challenge to help you grow and stay compassionate. Now, go back."

As I walked back, my grandmother told me that my father was going to leave my mother and that I would be my mother's strength. I saw people hiding in the tunnel, people who were afraid to come into the light or who were disoriented about where they were. I expressed concern for them but was told not to worry, as an angel would be along to help them. Some of these people looked like soldiers. Then I remembered Vietnam and I knew where the soldiers were coming from."

It is documented that the revelations Lynn received in her near-death experience were later proven to be true, such as the black and Asian doctors, her uncle Franklin whom she did not know and the baby that her mother lost before Lynn was born, and her father leaving the family.

[Molly]

 The Gray Champion

by Nathaniel Hawthorne



There was once a time when New England groaned under the actual pressure of heavier wrongs than those threatened ones which brought on the Revolution. James II, the bigoted successor of Charles the Voluptuous, had annulled the charters of all the colonies, and sent a harsh and unprincipled soldier to take away our liberties and endanger our religion. The administration of Sir Edmund Andros lacked scarcely a single characteristic of tyranny: a Governor and Council, holding office from the King, and wholly independent of the country; laws made and taxes levied without concurrence of the people immediate or by their representatives; the rights of private citizens violated, and the titles of all landed property declared void; the voice of complaint stifled by restrictions on the press; and, finally, disaffection overawed by the first band of mercenary troops that ever marched on our free soil. For two years our ancestors were kept in sullen submission by that filial love which had invariably secured their allegiance to the mother country, whether its head chanced to be a Parliament, Protector, or Popish Monarch. Till these evil times, however, such allegiance had been merely nominal, and the colonists had ruled themselves, enjoying far more freedom than is even yet the privilege of the native subjects of Great Britain.

At length a rumor reached our shores that the Prince of Orange had ventured on an enterprise, the success of which would be the triumph of civil and religious rights and the salvation of New England. It was but a doubtful whisper: it might be false, or the attempt might fail; and, in either case, the man that stirred against King James would lose his head. Still the intelligence produced a marked effect. The people smiled mysteriously in the streets, and threw bold glances at their oppressors; while far and wide there was a subdued and silent agitation, as if the slightest signal would rouse the whole land from its sluggish despondency. Aware of their danger, the rulers resolved to avert it by an imposing display of strength, and perhaps to confirm their despotism by yet harsher measures. One afternoon in April, 1689, Sir Edmund Andros and his favorite councillors, being warm with wine, assembled the red-coats of the Governor's Guard, and made their appearance in the streets of Boston. The sun was near setting when the march commenced.

The roll of the drum at that unquiet crisis seemed to go through the streets, less as the martial music of the soldiers, than as a muster-call to the inhabitants themselves. A multitude, by various avenues, assembled in King Street, which was destined to be the scene, nearly a century afterwards, of another encounter between the troops of Britain, and a people struggling against her tyranny. Though more than sixty years had elapsed since the pilgrims came, this crowd of their descendants still showed the strong and sombre features of their character perhaps more strikingly in such a stern emergency than on happier occasions. There were the sober garb, the general severity of mien, the gloomy but undismayed expression, the scriptural forms of speech, and the confidence in Heaven's blessing on a righteous cause, which would have marked a band of the original Puritans, when threatened by some peril of the wilderness. Indeed, it was not yet time for the old spirit to be extinct; since there were men in the street that day who had worshipped there beneath the trees, before a house was reared to the God for whom they had become exiles. Old soldiers of the Parliament were here, too, smiling grimly at the thought that their aged arms might strike another blow against the house of Stuart. Here, also, were the veterans of King Philip's war, who had burned villages and slaughtered young and old, with pious fierceness, while the godly souls throughout the land were helping them with prayer. Several ministers were scattered among the crowd, which, unlike all other mobs, regarded them with such reverence, as if there were sanctity in their very garments. These holy men exerted their influence to quiet the people, but not to disperse them. Meantime, the purpose of the Governor, in disturbing the peace of the town at a period when the slightest commotion might throw the country into a ferment, was almost the universal subject of inquiry, and variously explained.

"Satan will strike his master-stroke presently," cried some, "because he knoweth that his time is short. All our godly pastors are to be dragged to prison! We shall see them at a Smithfield fire in King Street!"

Hereupon the people of each parish gathered closer round their minister, who looked calmly upwards and assumed a more apostolic dignity, as well befitted a candidate for the highest honor of his profession, the crown of martyrdom. It was actually fancied, at that period, that New England might have a John Rogers of her own to take the place of that worthy in the Primer.

"The Pope of Rome has given orders for a new St. Bartholomew!" cried others. "We are to be massacred, man and male child!"

Neither was this rumor wholly discredited, although the wiser class believed the Governor's object somewhat less atrocious. His predecessor under the old charter, Bradstreet, a venerable companion of the first settlers, was known to be in town. There were grounds for conjecturing, that Sir Edmund Andros intended at once to strike terror by a parade of military force, and to confound the opposite faction by possessing himself of their chief.

"Stand firm for the old charter Governor!" shouted the crowd, seizing upon the idea. "The good old Governor Bradstreet!"

While this cry was at the loudest, the people were surprised by the well-known figure of Governor Bradstreet himself, a patriarch of nearly ninety, who appeared on the elevated steps of a door, and, with characteristic mildness, besought them to submit to the constituted authorities.

"My children," concluded this venerable person, "do nothing rashly. Cry not aloud, but pray for the welfare of New England, and expect patiently what the Lord will do in this matter!"

The event was soon to be decided. All this time, the roll of the drum had been approaching through Cornhill, louder and deeper, till with reverberations from house to house, and the regular tramp of martial footsteps, it burst into the street. A double rank of soldiers made their appearance, occupying the whole breadth of the passage, with shouldered matchlocks, and matches burning, so as to present a row of fires in the dusk. Their steady march was like the progress of a machine, that would roll irresistibly over everything in its way. Next, moving slowly, with a confused clatter of hoofs on the pavement, rode a party of mounted gentlemen, the central figure being Sir Edmund Andros, elderly, but erect and soldier-like. Those around him were his favorite councillors, and the bitterest foes of New England. At his right hand rode Edward Randolph, our arch-enemy, that "blasted wretch," as Cotton Mather calls him, who achieved the downfall of our ancient government, and was followed with a sensible curse, through life and to his grave. On the other side was Bullivant, scattering jests and mockery as he rode along. Dudley came behind, with a downcast look, dreading, as well he might, to meet the indignant gaze of the people, who beheld him, their only countryman by birth, among the oppressors of his native land. The captain of a frigate in the harbor, and two or three civil officers under the Crown, were also there. But the figure which most attracted the public eye, and stirred up the deepest feeling, was the Episcopal clergyman of King's Chapel, riding haughtily among the magistrates in his priestly vestments, the fitting representatives of prelacy and persecution, the union of church and state, and all those abominations which had driven the Puritans to the wilderness. Another guard of soldiers, in double rank, brought up the rear.

The whole scene was a picture of the condition of New England, and its moral, the deformity of any government that does not grow out of the nature of things and the character of the people. On one side the religious multitude, with their sad visages and dark attire, and on the other, the group of despotic rulers, with the high churchman in the midst, and here and there a crucifix at their bosoms, all magnificently clad, flushed with wine, proud of unjust authority, and scoffing at the universal groan. And the mercenary soldiers, waiting but the word to deluge the street with blood, showed the only means by which obedience could be secured.

"O Lord of Hosts," cried a voice among the crowd, "provide a Champion for thy people!"

This ejaculation was loudly uttered, and served as a herald's cry, to introduce a remarkable personage. The crowd had rolled back, and were now huddled together nearly at the extremity of the street, while the soldiers had advanced no more than a third of its length. The intervening space was empty--a paved solitude, between lofty edifices, which threw almost a twilight shadow over it. Suddenly, there was seen the figure of an ancient man, who seemed to have emerged from among the people, and was walking by himself along the centre of the street, to confront the armed band. He wore the old Puritan dress, a dark cloak and a steeplecrowned hat, in the fashion of at least fifty years before, with a heavy sword upon his thigh, but a staff in his hand to assist the tremulous gait of age.

When at some distance from the multitude, the old man turned slowly round, displaying a face of antique majesty, rendered doubly venerable by the hoary beard that descended on his breast. He made a gesture at once of encouragement and warning, then turned again, and resumed his way.

"Who is this gray patriarch?" asked the young men of their sires.

"Who is this venerable brother?" asked the old men among themselves.

But none could make reply. The fathers of the people, those of fourscore years and upwards, were disturbed, deeming it strange that they should forget one of such evident authority, whom they must have known in their early days, the associate of Winthrop, and all the old councillors, giving laws, and making prayers, and leading them against the savage. The elderly men ought to have remembered him, too, with locks as gray in their youth, as their own were now. And the young! How could he have passed so utterly from their memories--that hoary sire, the relic of longdeparted times, whose awful benediction had surely been bestowed on their uncovered heads, in childhood?

"Whence did he come? What is his purpose? Who can this old man be?" whispered the wondering crowd.

Meanwhile, the venerable stranger, staff in hand, was pursuing his solitary walk along the centre of the street. As he drew near the advancing soldiers, and as the roll of their drum came full upon his ears, the old man raised himself to a loftier mien, while the decrepitude of age seemed to fall from his shoulders, leaving him in gray but unbroken dignity. Now, he marched onward with a warrior's step, keeping time to the military music. Thus the aged form advanced on one side, and the whole parade of soldiers and magistrates on the other, till, when scarcely twenty yards remained between, the old man grasped his staff by the middle, and held it before him like a leader's truncheon.

"Stand!" cried he.

The eye, the face, and attitude of command; the solemn, yet warlike peal of that voice, fit either to rule a host in the battle-field or be raised to God in prayer, were irresistible. At the old man's word and outstretched arm, the roll of the drum was hushed at once, and the advancing line stood still. A tremulous enthusiasm seized upon the multitude. That stately form, combining the leader and the saint, so gray, so dimly seen, in such an ancient garb, could only belong to some old champion of the righteous cause, whom the oppressor's drum had summoned from his grave. They raised a shout of awe and exultation, and looked for the deliverance of New England.

The Governor, and the gentlemen of his party, perceiving themselves brought to an unexpected stand, rode hastily forward, as if they would have pressed their snorting and affrighted horses right against the hoary apparition. He, however, blenched not a step, but glancing his severe eye round the group, which half encompassed him, at last bent it sternly on Sir Edmund Andros. One would have thought that the dark old man was chief ruler there, and that the Governor and Council, with soldiers at their back, representing the whole power and authority of the Crown, had no alternative but obedience.

"What does this old fellow here?" cried Edward Randolph, fiercely. "On, Sir Edmund! Bid the soldiers forward, and give the dotard the same choice that you give all his countrymen--to stand aside or be trampled on!"

"Nay, nay, let us show respect to the good grandsire," said Bullivant, laughing. "See you not, he is some old round-headed dignitary, who hath lain asleep these thirty years, and knows nothing o' the change of times? Doubtless, he thinks to put us down with a proclamation in Old Noll's name!"

"Are you mad, old man?" demanded Sir Edmund Andros, in loud and harsh tones. "How dare you stay the march of King James's Governor?"

"I have stayed the march of a King himself, ere now," replied the gray figure, with stern composure. "I am here, Sir Governor, because the cry of an oppressed people hath disturbed me in my secret place; and beseeching this favor earnestly of the Lord, it was vouchsafed me to appear once again on earth, in the good old cause of his saints. And what speak ye of James? There is no longer a Popish tyrant on the throne of England, and by to-morrow noon, his name shall be a byword in this very street, where ye would make it a word of terror. Back, thou wast a Governor, back! With this night thy power is ended--to-morrow, the prison!--back, lest I foretell the scaffold!"

The people had been drawing nearer and nearer, and drinking in the words of their champion, who spoke in accents long disused, like one unaccustomed to converse, except with the dead of many years ago. But his voice stirred their souls. They confronted the soldiers, not wholly without arms, and ready to convert the very stones of the street into deadly weapons. Sir Edmund Andros looked at the old man; then he cast his hard and cruel eye over the multitude, and beheld them burning with that lurid wrath, so difficult to kindle or to quench; and again he fixed his gaze on the aged form, which stood obscurely in an open space, where neither friend nor foe had thrust himself. What were his thoughts, he uttered no word which might discover. But whether the oppressor were overawed by the Gray Champion's look, or perceived his peril in the threatening attitude of the people, it is certain that he gave back, and ordered his soldiers to commence a slow and guarded retreat. Before another sunset, the Governor, and all that rode so proudly with him, were prisoners, and long ere it was known that James had abdicated, King William was proclaimed throughout New England.

But where was the Gray Champion? Some reported that, when the troops had gone from King Street, and the people were thronging tumultuously in their rear, Bradstreet, the aged Governor, was seen to embrace a form more aged than his own. Others soberly affirmed, that while they marvelled at the venerable grandeur of his aspect, the old man had faded from their eyes, melting slowly into the hues of twilight, till, where he stood, there was an empty space. But all agreed that the hoary shape was gone. The men of that generation watched for his reappearance, in sunshine and in twilight, but never saw him more, nor knew when his funeral passed, nor where his gravestone was.

And who was the Gray Champion? Perhaps his name might be found in the records of that stern Court of Justice, which passed a sentence, too mighty for the age, but glorious in all after-times, for its humbling lesson to the monarch and its high example to the subject. I have heard, that whenever the descendants of the Puritans are to show the spirit of their sires, the old man appears again. When eighty years had passed, he walked once more in King Street. Five years later, in the twilight of an April morning, he stood on the green, beside the meeting-house, at Lexington, where now the obelisk of granite, with a slab of slate inlaid, commemorates the first fallen of the Revolutions. And when our fathers were toiling at the breastwork on Bunker's Hill, all through that night the old warrior walked his rounds. Long, long may it be, ere he comes again! His hour is one of darkness, and adversity, and peril. But should domestic tyranny oppress us, or the invader's step pollute our soil, still may the Gray Champion come, for he is the type of New England's hereditary spirit; and his shadowy march, on the eve of danger, must ever be the pledge, that New England's sons will vindicate their ancestry.

[Paul Hazelwood]

.but so many who are Christians are not able to speak of these things because other people will tell them it is the devil, or that they are crazy.

Not sure what religious back ground you come from but in my experience there is no lack of christian stories, the problem is that a story someone tells cannot be proven or disproven and there is a LARGE abundance of BS with people telling stories trying to say this is proof that we should believe a certain religious way and to draw attention to the one telling it.

[rosered]

 

 Loved  the story Bobson ,  Thanks for sharing it ,
 I do not doubt that    the Spiritual realm   would be impossible for the carnal mind to wrap around it .. they are  enmities  for a reason
as God purposes  it to be so..

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.  

 the Spiritual  is from above and the  carnal is from below
 thus the head and  heel  brusing / wound / blow

 the study of the   the two words  can mean  and does  mean  in some instances
  the head is the  rule or authority  and  blow to the  head is what the spiritual  realm  does to our way of thinking /carnal thoughts

 and the feet are the  way we   think and speak  of the gospel and good news of Jesus Christ  , thus we have the  foot washing of the saints    towards one another
 cleansing the ''feet  as an act of humility ''  and caring  showing love , servitude
and coming to the same unity of faith in Jesus  Christ whom made this example known ..  this to me is what we do discussing  these things of faith  that the cannal mind  will  strike blows  at , like   brusing   the feet   with hardend  hearts  as rocks of offense   and dust the flesh scattering  etc ..  attached to the feet /  gospel   and teaching of peace in Jesus , only  the  Spirit of prophecy / Jesus Christ  testimony , can teach these things to us

 as Mary sat at Jesus feet / a humble and low place  to learn  the Truth

 being born of the  Spirit we hear what the Spirit is saying by faith and  making us complete / whole .  till we are told to come up ''higher ''

Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
 
 feet Strong's G4228 - pous 1) a foot, both of men or beast

a) often in the orient, one put his foot on vanquished

b) of disciples listening to their teacher's instruction are said to be at his feet
   just one example of the  feet  ...

and   the head , when Christ becomes the Head / all authority  
we no longer struggle   trying to disern whats is of God and what is of the devil

 Gods Spirit rests within you and Christs as well  and shows us whats is   right  in Gods  will  thus the peace
the spirit of discernment
 the carnal mind cannot even   ''touch it ''

  God bless all who hear  what the Spirit is saying  :icon_flower:

[rosered]

.but so many who are Christians are not able to speak of these things because other people will tell them it is the devil, or that they are crazy.

Not sure what religious back ground you come from but in my experience there is no lack of christian stories, the problem is that a story someone tells cannot be proven or disproven and there is a LARGE abundance of BS with people telling stories trying to say this is proof that we should believe a certain religious way and to draw attention to the one telling it.

  I do understand what you are saying Paul

  this    come to mind ,  the ellen white   story making a certain ''sect''
  drawn  away from Christ and on to their  own understanding

  it  is  a form of godliness  but denies the power  Jesus Christ
   If its not pointing to Him  in every way , Giving Him the glory ,  these things  become vain and fruitless  paths ..

  Just an opinion  / thought on the matter .

[WhiteWings]

Not sure what religious back ground you come from but in my experience there is no lack of christian stories, the problem is that a story someone tells cannot be proven or disproven and there is a LARGE abundance of BS with people telling stories trying to say this is proof that we should believe a certain religious way and to draw attention to the one telling it.

There is scientic research. Of course "you" can accept or reject the results.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Not sure what religious back ground you come from but in my experience there is no lack of christian stories, the problem is that a story someone tells cannot be proven or disproven and there is a LARGE abundance of BS with people telling stories trying to say this is proof that we should believe a certain religious way and to draw attention to the one telling it.

There is scientic research. Of course "you" can accept or reject the results.

Oh, so what has this proven in the absolute sense?

[WhiteWings]

this    come to mind ,  the ellen white   story making a certain "sect"  drawn  away from Christ and on to their  own understanding

it  is  a form of godliness  but denies the power  Jesus Christ
If its not pointing to Him  in every way , Giving Him the glory ,  these things  become vain and fruitless  paths ..

If I understand what you wrote Rose I don't agree.
NDEs that reject Jesus are wrong.
But what about NDEs that don't mention Jesus?
Not mentioning Jesus is not meaning it rejects Jesus.
Most NDEs are focussed on one event. Accident. Baby to be born. A tiny insight of what happens after death.
Many visions in the Bible don't mention Jesus either. That doesn't mean they reject Jesus.
The way I see it; after life is a puzzle with a billion pieces. Most NDEs focus on just one part of the puzzle. Or no puzzle piece at all.
NDEs only prove what they show. (if they are real Paul :winkgrin:) They don't disprove/reject all the other pieces of the puzzle.

Most NDEs I have read are not directly religous but certainly don't oppose UR and other things in the Bible.
(but you already know that from my emails Rose  :laughing7:)

[WhiteWings]

Not sure what religious back ground you come from but in my experience there is no lack of christian stories, the problem is that a story someone tells cannot be proven or disproven and there is a LARGE abundance of BS with people telling stories trying to say this is proof that we should believe a certain religious way and to draw attention to the one telling it.

There is scientic research. Of course "you" can accept or reject the results.

Oh, so what has this proven in the absolute sense?

Nothing Paul. Read the stories and bits of proof. Then decide if you want to believe it. Just as with the Bible. I know you don't have an open mind for it so won't bother you with url  :winkgrin:

[Paul Hazelwood]

Not sure what religious back ground you come from but in my experience there is no lack of christian stories, the problem is that a story someone tells cannot be proven or disproven and there is a LARGE abundance of BS with people telling stories trying to say this is proof that we should believe a certain religious way and to draw attention to the one telling it.

There is scientic research. Of course "you" can accept or reject the results.

Oh, so what has this proven in the absolute sense?

Nothing Paul. Read the stories and bits of proof. Then decide if you want to believe it. Just as with the Bible. I know you don't have an open mind for it so won't bother you with url  :winkgrin:

I am not disputing what you might think. 

The point I was making is that there is no lack of story telling when Bobson seems to suggest people are hesitant to tell their story.   Maybe some are,  depending upon who they are around a lot.   But I have heard an abundance of stories and the vast majority of them are patterned to persuade others to a certain religious point of view.   Most often the story teller wants recognition and attention or that certainly is what they receive from it.

My path in churches included a lot of envy and doubt about my own faith and beliefs from listing to story after story of how people saw this and got that and their dramatic telling of the story made me wonder what was wrong with me that I had not saw that or experienced something similar.   Then combine that with supposed NDE's of people who then are warning everyone one they can that what they experienced was eternal hell and the doom of the unbeliever.

So my point is what exactly is someone actually going to detemine from the research in that regaurd? 

[rosered]

this    come to mind ,  the ellen white   story making a certain "sect"  drawn  away from Christ and on to their  own understanding

it  is  a form of godliness  but denies the power  Jesus Christ
If its not pointing to Him  in every way , Giving Him the glory ,  these things  become vain and fruitless  paths ..

If I understand what you wrote Rose I don't agree.
NDEs that reject Jesus are wrong.
But what about NDEs that don't mention Jesus?
Not mentioning Jesus is not meaning it rejects Jesus.
Most NDEs are focussed on one event. Accident. Baby to be born. A tiny insight of what happens after death.
Many visions in the Bible don't mention Jesus either. That doesn't mean they reject Jesus.
The way I see it; after life is a puzzle with a billion pieces. Most NDEs focus on just one part of the puzzle. Or no puzzle piece at all.
NDEs only prove what they show. (if they are real Paul :winkgrin:) They don't disprove/reject all the other pieces of the puzzle.

Most NDEs I have read are not directly religous but certainly don't oppose UR and other things in the Bible.
(but you already know that from my emails Rose  :laughing7:)

 LOL ...   Think you may have misunderstood me Tony

   not the clearest person to understand  

God knows !

  What  "religion" does  in the broad sense is confuse most seekers of Light / Jesus ..
 they do take a small piece of the puzzle  and  "build on that only " which  
to me leaves alot of spiritual growth out the window of opportunity

to grow and learn  of Him

  Jesus is the name given bro , BUT    Jesus is everything everywhere
  though all times ..
the Rock , the Light , the  power of God and Knowledge of Him
 
to get hung up in the name only
 is where many error
 the reason  to me is this
 Jesus told us HIMSELF  that many will come in His name  only and do works make great claims   etc  , but  Jesus denies even knowing them

 Its about  faith and hearing  what the Spirit /CHRIST /GOD  is saying that makes all the differnece to me

 just   an opinion ...

 does  the name Jesus Christ   hold all the power ?
 or is it HIM / LOVE that make the universal   understanding work  to every creature  in and under heaven ?

 to me these  things are what DO cause  some divisions   and  break downs  in conversations ... :icon_flower: