Returning to the Father

[Beloved Servant]

English Standard Version (©2001)
These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

American King James Version
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

American Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

Bible in Basic English
These are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were made.

Douay-Rheims Bible
These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:


English Revised Version
These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

Webster's Bible Translation
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

World English Bible
This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.

[Beloved Servant]

Does anyone understand this???
All generations were created, in Him, from the beginning!

[Beloved Servant]

The Word of God, Jesus, the Son of man, agreed! to make Himself poverty and dwelt among us.
We existed, within Him, from the beginning!
We also, agreed, within the Son, to be born into this temporary realm.
Whether black, Jew or gay.
A starving child in a third-world nation, or a national leader, we all agreed, we all agreed.
There is nothing perchance with the Lord.
This is deep but I feel led to put it out there for those that have an ear.
There are 6 bones in the natural ear, the Spirit is heard never here.
Instead, deep calls to deep within the awakened;
Come home prodigal Son!

[jabcat]

Really something to dwell on David.  

That could help explain a lot, like "where's God", "how could He let that happen", etc.  Again, food for thought.

I think the scripture you reference above may address what you've just said.  Can you think of any others?  I think of "chosen/predestined in Him before the foundation of the world" (Eph 1).  Any others?

[Beloved Servant]

Now!
Those in position!
Overcome, as I have overcome!

[SQ]

Wow this is awesome, when one knows we choose this life it certainly explains so much.
We all agree in unison even those that don't know it yet.

[Beloved Servant]

SQ, the Father is everywhere!
The Son is everywhere!
The Spirit is everywhere!
I in You, You in Me, We in Them (John's Account)
The alabaster vessel is broken open! and the anointing is upon man, the Holy Spirit is now given and the anointing is now within!
We are HIM, and must come to, finally, IDENTIFY WITH CHRIST!

[SQ]

I am getting it at last!  :cloud9:

[Beloved Servant]

There are but only two creations within to dwell.
Adam or Christ Jesus.

[Beloved Servant]

Adam, the flesh, was crucified with Christ, now, ALL LIVE!
It really is simple.

[rosered]

  Thank you , Thank you , Thank you Beloved !! 
Yes , the   very verse  you used   come to mind  2 pages ago

  and you are right the simplicity in Christ is  amazing  Mixed with faith of course  :thumbsup:    Them that believe and those whom still  resist  the TRUTH ...Hebrews 4
Promised Rest for God's People
1 God's promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. 2 For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn't share the faith of those who listened to God.[a] 3 For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said,
   "In my anger I took an oath:
      'They will never enter my place of rest,'"[


  NLT Genesis 2
1 So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed. 2 On the seventh day God had finished his work of creation, so he rested[a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation.


4 This is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth.


  THIS  being the DAY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST  THE 7TH AND HOLY ONE  AND OUR REST IN  JESUS CHRIST     
   in Adams  death  and in  Christs Life  :icon_flower:

[CHB]

(Col. 1:16-17) For by Him were ALL THINGS CREATED, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THRONES, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS; all things were CREATED BY HIM. and for him.

And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS, and by him all things consist.


If Christ was before all things and all things were CREATED by him, how could we have existed before he created us? If he existed before we did, how could we have always existed? Even Christ was a creation of the Father but he was created before us. (Verse 15) Who is the image of the invisable God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVER CREATURE.

(Rev.1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING AND THE END.

(Rev. 3:14)  The beginning of the creation of God.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

Hi CHB,

If Christ was before all things and all things were CREATED by him, how could we have existed before he created us?

The question is what exactly was the act of creating? Two options to consider:
a] We simply never in no shape or form existed before the creation mentioned in Genesis.
b] We did exist in another form (spirit) before we were created. (lowered into creation)

Even Christ was a creation of the Father but he was created before us.

If he existed before we did, how could we have always existed?

I agree with your time line. Father -> Son -> We
So only Father can be eternal/have always existed.
But that does not disprove opion-b. Purely as an example. Father has limetles age. Son is 10 triljon years old. We are 1 biljon years old and then in Genesis lowered into creation.
So "always exited" is of the table. But there are a lot of possible ages between always  existed and a few decades old.

[Paul Hazelwood]

(Col. 1:16-17) For by Him were ALL THINGS CREATED, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THRONES, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS; all things were CREATED BY HIM. and for him.

And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS, and by him all things consist.


If Christ was before all things and all things were CREATED by him, how could we have existed before he created us? If he existed before we did, how could we have always existed? Even Christ was a creation of the Father but he was created before us. (Verse 15) Who is the image of the invisable God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVER CREATURE.

(Rev.1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING AND THE END.

(Rev. 3:14)  The beginning of the creation of God.

CHB

The context of all could simply be ALL things in this realm, if spiritually we consist of "God" then an aspect of us was not created but always existed and perhaps wouldn't qualify as a "thing" since it is an inherant part of God.

The bible talks about a new heaven and new earth, but there is no detail concerning it,  no detail concerning our roles, or what is expected or what we can expect.  I think the Bible applies to this realm of existance.

[rosered]

(Col. 1:16-17) For by Him were ALL THINGS CREATED, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THRONES, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS; all things were CREATED BY HIM. and for him.

And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS, and by him all things consist.


If Christ was before all things and all things were CREATED by him, how could we have existed before he created us? If he existed before we did, how could we have always existed? Even Christ was a creation of the Father but he was created before us. (Verse 15) Who is the image of the invisable God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVER CREATURE.

(Rev.1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING AND THE END.

(Rev. 3:14)  The beginning of the creation of God.

CHB

The context of all could simply be ALL things in this realm, if spiritually we consist of "God" then an aspect of us was not created but always existed and perhaps wouldn't qualify as a "thing" since it is an inherant part of God.

The bible talks about a new heaven and new earth, but there is no detail concerning it,  no detail concerning our roles, or what is expected or what we can expect.  I think the Bible applies to this realm of existance.

perhaps the holy thing is  from the seed of the Word of God Paul and the Holy Spirit

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.   :icon_flower:

[Beloved Servant]

Christ is not a creation of the Father.
He is the Fathers eternal Word.


JOHN'S  ACCOUNT (CLV)

               1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
               2 This was in the beginning toward God.
               3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being.
               4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men.
               5 And the light is appearing in the darkness, and the darkness grasped it not.


John 1 (Amplified Bible)

                1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
                2 He was present originally with God.
                3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

[CHB]

Christ is not a creation of the Father.
He is the Fathers eternal Word.

I am just going by what I read in the Bible. Christ said, I am the first,  the beginning. He also says, the beginning of the creation of God.

JOHN'S  ACCOUNT (CLV)

               1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
               2 This was in the beginning toward God.
               3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being.
               4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men.
               5 And the light is appearing in the darkness, and the darkness grasped it not.

Notice it says, IN THE BEGINNING. Christ was the beginning of creation. If something has a beginning doesn't that mean it isn't eternal? Christ was God but he wasn't God the Father.

John 1 (Amplified Bible)

                1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
                2 He was present originally with God.
                3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

If something was created how could it have existed before it was created? Number 3 proves that we were made or created and came into being by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ existed before the foundation of the world, he was the first creation, the beginning, but my understanding is we did not exist before the foundation of the world. Only in the plan and mind of God did we exist.

CHB

Why do these quotes turn out like this?

[CHB]

The context of all could simply be ALL things in this realm, if spiritually we consist of "God" then an aspect of us was not created but always existed and perhaps wouldn't qualify as a "thing" since it is an inherant part of God.

Hi Paul,

Doesn't it say Christ created all things, visible and INVISABLE? I don't think invisable would be part of this realm.

CHB

[Paul Hazelwood]

The context of all could simply be ALL things in this realm, if spiritually we consist of "God" then an aspect of us was not created but always existed and perhaps wouldn't qualify as a "thing" since it is an inherant part of God.

Hi Paul,

Doesn't it say Christ created all things, visible and INVISABLE? I don't think invisable would be part of this realm.

CHB

I suppose you'd have to define the context for invisible.

[peacemaker]

I suppose you'd have to define the context for invisible.

Beyond belief or knowledge :dbook:

[Paul Hazelwood]

I suppose you'd have to define the context for invisible.

Beyond belief or knowledge :dbook:

Well, in context to our realm, what is invisible?  In context with Gods knowledge is there anything actually invisible?  So if nothing is invisible to God, then I think the context remains in this realm.

[CHB]

Hi Paul,

It says, "For by him were all things created, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISABLE". 

Would you say heaven is part of this realm?

Since Paul is speaking to the saints here, it would seem that he is telling them that all these things that were created are visible and invisible to them. Or us humans.

I pray if I am wrong on this that God will show me differently. As of now I can't see that we existed before except in the plan and mind of God. I have had to change my mind on a lot of things in my lifetime when God showed me differently by his word. I would like to see some scripture showing that we pre-existed.

CHB 

[Paul Hazelwood]

Would you say heaven is part of this realm?

Since scripture does talk of a new heaven and new earth and  the old passes away and offers no details of that new realm, I would still have to conclude that the bible is meant only for this realm of existance.

I pray if I am wrong on this that God will show me differently. As of now I can't see that we existed before except in the plan and mind of God. I have had to change my mind on a lot of things in my lifetime when God showed me differently by his word. I would like to see some scripture showing that we pre-existed.

Well, we all go through this in discussions of all natures, we all want someone to show us the exact scripture that makes the point and we all know that we are faced with the understanding that scripture leads us into knowledge that is not exactly spelled out word for word.

It is true, you will not find a scripture that explicitly says we "pre-existed" and if that causes you to continue believing what you do, so be it,  but,  I do not see at this point that you can be reconciled into a condition that you never were.

[rosered]

Hi Paul,

It says, "For by him were all things created, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISABLE".  

Would you say heaven is part of this realm?

Since Paul is speaking to the saints here, it would seem that he is telling them that all these things that were created are visible and invisible to them. Or us humans.

I pray if I am wrong on this that God will show me differently. As of now I can't see that we existed before except in the plan and mind of God. I have had to change my mind on a lot of things in my lifetime when God showed me differently by his word. I would like to see some scripture showing that we pre-existed.

CHB  

This is an excellent point your making
 I also  think  that everything God has made will become new  in Christ  


 and because the WORD OF GOD and the Spirit  of God  are eternal  

 the WORD  made flesh and Paul speaks of diffent  types of  flesh in 1Corintains 15
and we know there are  ONE SPIRIT in God  . but many spirits  that God made that are not of God ...

So  far you  have made  the most valid  point to me anyways ..  That it come from Gods mind and heart    this plan  of creation  though His Wisdom
seems Wisdom is always female gendered and spoken in female pronouns    and from His Image or likeness

It takes both parts to "create " "fashion"and made "  these  3  things are scripture  sound ......and it is about  hearing

and  listening to what the SPIRIT OF GOD is saying

 and we know also  faith comes by hearing His Voice and Wisdom  , what Jesus Christ is called  in the...  NEW TESTAMENT    the Wisdom and Power of God    1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 

 Proverbs   8  

Wisdom Calls for a Hearing

 

1 Listen as Wisdom calls out!
     Hear as understanding raises her voice!
2 On the hilltop along the road,
     she takes her stand at the crossroads.
3 By the gates at the entrance to the town,
     on the road leading in, she cries aloud,
4 "I call to you, to all of you!
     I raise my voice to all people.
5 You simple people, use good judgment.
     You foolish people, show some understanding.
6 Listen to me! For I have important things to tell you.
     Everything I say is right,
7 for I speak the truth
     and detest every kind of deception.
8 My advice is wholesome.
     There is nothing devious or crooked in it.
9 My words are plain to anyone with understanding,
     clear to those with knowledge.
10 Choose my instruction rather than silver,
     and knowledge rather than pure gold.
11 For wisdom is far more valuable than rubies.
     Nothing you desire can compare with it
12 "I, Wisdom, live together with good judgment.
     I know where to discover knowledge and discernment.
13 All who fear the Lord will hate evil.
     Therefore, I hate pride and arrogance,
     corruption and perverse speech.
14 Common sense and success belong to me.
     Insight and strength are mine.
15 Because of me, kings reign,
     and rulers make just decrees.
16 Rulers lead with my help,
     and nobles make righteous judgments.

17 "I love all who love me.
     Those who search will surely find me.
18 I have riches and honor,
     as well as enduring wealth and justice.
19 My gifts are better than gold, even the purest gold,
     my wages better than sterling silver!
20 I walk in righteousness,
     in paths of justice.
21 Those who love me inherit wealth.
     I will fill their treasuries.

22 "The Lord formed me from the beginning,
     before he created anything else.
23 I was appointed in ages past,
     at the very first, before the earth began.
24 I was born before the oceans were created,
     before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
25 Before the mountains were formed,
     before the hills, I was born—
26 before he had made the earth and fields
     and the first handfuls of soil.
27 I was there when he established the heavens,
     when he drew the horizon on the oceans.
28 I was there when he set the clouds above,
     when he established springs deep in the earth.
29 I was there when he set the limits of the seas,
     so they would not spread beyond their boundaries.
  And when he marked off the earth's foundations,
   30 I was the architect at his side.
  I was his constant delight,
     rejoicing always in his presence.
31 And how happy I was with the world he created;
     how I rejoiced with the human family!

32 "And so, my children, listen to me,
     for all who follow my ways are joyful.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise.
     Don't ignore it.
34 Joyful are those who listen to me,
     watching for me daily at my gates,
     waiting for me outside my home!
35 For whoever finds me finds life
     and receives favor from the Lord.
36 But those who miss me injure themselves.
     All who hate me love death."

  you have  me thinking  now lol...
  I  know that Jesus Christ is the Wisdom of God and power of God    manifested / made known / revealed  , the visible and invisable  

   the things of faith  made  real  or percieved
  without faith it is impossble to please God  

 and and faith is the things hoped for
 we  believe  how we percive / know  Him .

:icon_flower:

   the only way is if we were in Christ /annointed  from the beginng  , this  being Gods Wisdom  before anything was ever made  and was  sent out   over times/ages  and  His plan  only to be gatherd back again   into Him  in the End
   You just may have simplified  a question I have wondered for years now ..
   

[Francine]

Scripture verses that indicate that man was NOT in, with, or of God (Spirit) before the foundation of the world.

I don't have time to type the entire verses. but I ask you to prayerfully read John 17... especially verses 5, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 

also from these verses we should be discussing Jesus' Returning to the Father.
=====
another verse to look at is Hebrews 2:10....   does it say that He is bringing many sons TO glory or  He is bringing back sons who were in, with Him before the foundation of the world??????


also we need to clarify just what "reconcile" means.  Strongs' does give a few meanings... most of which have the meaning of settling a dispute between two or more conflicting things.   see Eph 2:15,16 and Col 1:20, 21     

Rosered thanks for reminding me that there are different kinds of flesh...

Until this reminder, I was considering that the two conflicting things were the "natural" and the "spiritual"   as per 1 Cor 15:44, 46... but now I see the two conflicting things as "sinful flesh" and HIS flesh. 

In spirit, we are flesh of HIS flesh, and bone of HIS bones...


very brief... just wanted to get this posted ...

Francine