Is David still in his grave?

[Beloved Servant]

The reapers are the wonderful Words of the Lord.

scripture please.  thanks.

and who spreads/preaches the words to the whole world prior to the harvest?


 Rom 10:18  But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

God's Word does not return to Him void.

[Zeek]

The reapers are the wonderful Words of the Lord.

scripture please.  thanks.

and who spreads/preaches the words to the whole world prior to the harvest?


 Rom 10:18  But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

God's Word does not return to Him void.

From "God's Word does not return to him void" you saw that as "reapers"?  I kind of see  that,

any others that ties "reapers"  to the "Word"?

[Zeek]

I find it interesting a little later in the chapter, the "reapers" are the angels.

[Beloved Servant]

Christ, the Word of God says He will drag all men unto Himself.
He is the greatest of Angels, the firstborn of many.

[Livelystone]

Just as David "walked in the valley of death" and in Romans Paul spoke of back when he was Saul that he was alive unto the world but dead to God. Then in Ro. 6:13 he tells us to be "alive from the dead"

In the Bible death is spoken of both spiritually and physically just as Adam died spiritually the day that he disobeyed God at the same time physical death started to work in him.

Then we have "dead" as "dead to sin" and there is the "alive in Christ" that goes hand and hand with "dead in Christ" :faint:

So do we have to believe that the  "dead in Christ" who are those who are raised first have to wait until they physically die to be raised with Him?........ not according to Paul.  :bgdance:

1 Thessalonians 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So what about those in verse 15 who are asleep that we were once taught were dead in their graves......... and how do we apply Paul's words to us "awake unto righteousness" IF WE ARE NOT ALREADY ASLEEP????? :Chinscratch:

There are no scriptures to lawfully discount that that those who are "dead in Christ" and are the first to rise to be "caught up with Him for evermore" ARE ALIVE IN THE FLESH  !!!!!!............... And there are plenty of verses that support that this IS exactly the way that it is.  

As far as the second resurrection when all the dead are raised before the GWT in Re.20 that most Christians are taught does not include believers and is 1000 years later........ who has the right to mandate that it is actually 1000 years and not just the "different day" that we are taught of because a thousand years is as a day"?.

I was raised as most others were who were brought up in a fundamental church but then after walking in the world (as in underworld) for 25  years God showed me that the church's take on the resurrection(s) is all wrong.

When I had my car accident and was pronounced dead I remained in that state for well over 20 minutes yet at the exact same time participated in the GWT scene of Re. 20 11-13 that was exactly as written rather than what the church taught me as a child........ so why would not every person upon the their natural death be resurrected exactly as I was to face what John said that he saw?

I do believe that is the way that it is and that the first resurrection is for sinners in this life just as Paul speaks of it and I quoted above. On the other hand there is an event spoken of that has not yet come to past that is by some called to be a rapture and by others a manifestation of the sons of God........ and then there is how I like to think of this event as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Malichi when the Lord will suddenly come to his temple (we are not His Temple until AFTER one has already been baptized in the Holy Spirit for those who have ears that hear)

For those who have not read of that experience here is a excerpt from my testimony. Like Paul when he had an out of body experience that he could not "lawfully" speak of things learned because of no other witnesses being present neither would I say that this is the way that it has to be for all....... but it is what I believe and my belief of it being this way for everyone does fulfill the scriptures (other than the me coming back part that did cause quite a stir with the hospital and highway patrol)

Because of the words of others for years I thought that because of what I had already seen and been through that it was already determined that I would miss out on the first resurrection....... now because of a much better understanding of the resurrection(s) I know that does not HAVE to be the case.

Blessings

Doug

.......The spectators could not believe that I was still alive let alone continue to talk to them while the paramedics immobilized me and prepared me for the trip to the hospital. All I could think was that they had no idea who was lying there in front of them and that this was just one more time that I had cheated death. When they wheeled me to the back of the ambulance I got the biggest shock of my life when I suddenly realized that I was about to die and that I had only seconds left to live.

My first thoughts were about how and when my family would find out that I had died and how would my dog get fed and taken care of. Then it got more serious as I realized that it did not matter whether I was wealthy or poor or whether I was driving a luxury car or a junker because I was about to leave this earth. I did not feel qualified to pray for my life at that time however I had a one-way conversation with God and I acknowledged to him that my life had been one of foolishness. I told Him that I no longer had the strength to live and if I was to do so it would take his direct intervention in one way or another because it was now all up to him. At that time I flat lined the monitoring equipment and the call went out to the highway patrol that they were losing me and at the same time and for the first time in my life I had peace and was grateful that dying wasn't all that bad. Keep in mind that I was totally immobilized and could only look straight up had I still been able to see. However I was soon looking at the paramedics eye to eye and at face level as they tried to restart my heart. Their attempts were futile and I was hoping that they would slow down before they ruined the best thing that had ever happened to me. The next thing that happened was that I was taken up into a large area where I could not see anyone else but could sense life around me. I was then "brought" up to a large table that had a very large book on it that was open but was placed in such a manner so that it could be read only by someone on the other side whom I could not see. I knew that this had to be the Book of Life that I had heard about as a youth and that if my name did not appear in it I would have to go to hell. This was very serious indeed but as I stood there the book closed. That did not seem to be a very good sign and I resigned myself to the fact that I would have to go to hell because I had had plenty of opportunities to change but now it was to late. I knew that it wouldn't do any good to cry and beg but that I should at least take it like a man because there would be plenty of time to cry where I was about to go.

However before any sort of trap door opened up to send me to hell I was suddenly taken to a second table that was just as the first one except the book on this table was closed. I was somewhat confused as to what this second book was all about when suddenly it was opened up and this scene became a repetition of the first one. This entire scene with a second book made no sense to me at all because as a child in Sunday School I had only heard of one book but at least it seemed to be a delay in what I already knew was about to happen to me. Then all of a sudden my name was found in this second book and I thought to myself "great I get to go to heaven". Unfortunately before that happened I was suddenly "back alive and in my body" feeling something really good in my throat that I realized was oxygen. I had forgotten that oxygen was one of the first things that they had given to me back at the scene of the accident some miles distant and I thought to myself "well it is about time they gave me some".  All of the above took place while I was still inside the ambulance and when I first opened my eyes there was a man leaning over me who asked me if I was OK. I told him I was fine and looking back I believe that he had been rubbing some oil on my chest that I have assumed to be something they might have used for the conductivity involved with the equipment they used to try and jumpstart my heart........

[Zeek]

Christ, the Word of God says He will drag all men unto Himself.
He is the greatest of Angels, the firstborn of many.

Christ the man,

or

Christ the "head and body".  
(meaning it is those given faith, who are the reapers too).  ??

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Beautiful story Doug!!

Blessings to you,
Brian

[Livelystone]

Beautiful story Doug!!

Blessings to you,
Brian

Thank you for the kind words Brian

I sent you the rest of the story via PM

Blessings

Doug

[Chris]

so who are the "reapers"?

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The reapers are the angels

Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

And we know that "the angels of the churches" are "the stars" in His right hand, right?

Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So we have reapers = angels = stars ("celestial bodies", right, wherein one star differs from another star in glory?)

And who did Christ send to reap?

Joh 4:38  I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Because the harvest is "the end of the world" (and Christ came "in the end of the world", saying that the field was white, already to harvest, right?)

And how was Paul "received"?

Gal 4:14  And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Lots of spiritual truths which bear witness to the fact that these things are going on right now.  :thumbsup:

[Zeek]

so who are the "reapers"?

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The reapers are the angels

Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

And we know that "the angels of the churches" are "the stars" in His right hand, right?

Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So we have reapers = angels = stars ("celestial bodies", right, wherein one star differs from another star in glory?)

And who did Christ send to reap?

Joh 4:38  I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Because the harvest is "the end of the world" (and Christ came "in the end of the world", saying that the field was white, already to harvest, right?)

And how was Paul "received"?

Gal 4:14  And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Lots of spiritual truths which bear witness to the fact that these things are going on right now.  :thumbsup:

thanks Chris,

I agree with your post, but don't see how the tares are gathered first, if the reapers are the ones gathering the tares.  To me, this would imply that they (the reapers) were raised first, to then gather the tares.  ?? 

[Livelystone]

so who are the "reapers"?

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The reapers are the angels

Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

And we know that "the angels of the churches" are "the stars" in His right hand, right?

Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So we have reapers = angels = stars ("celestial bodies", right, wherein one star differs from another star in glory?)

And who did Christ send to reap?

Joh 4:38  I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Because the harvest is "the end of the world" (and Christ came "in the end of the world", saying that the field was white, already to harvest, right?)

And how was Paul "received"?

Gal 4:14  And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Lots of spiritual truths which bear witness to the fact that these things are going on right now.  :thumbsup:

thanks Chris,

I agree with your post, but don't see how the tares are gathered first, if the reapers are the ones gathering the tares.  To me, this would imply that they (the reapers) were raised first, to then gather the tares.  ?? 

Being as the tares are planted by Satan and are the untruths that need to be removed Chris is correct. It will take those who are the first to know the truth to "burn; the lies (tares) taught to God"s children.

Blessings

Doug

[Chris]

so who are the "reapers"?

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The reapers are the angels

Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

And we know that "the angels of the churches" are "the stars" in His right hand, right?

Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So we have reapers = angels = stars ("celestial bodies", right, wherein one star differs from another star in glory?)

And who did Christ send to reap?

Joh 4:38  I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Because the harvest is "the end of the world" (and Christ came "in the end of the world", saying that the field was white, already to harvest, right?)

And how was Paul "received"?

Gal 4:14  And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Lots of spiritual truths which bear witness to the fact that these things are going on right now.  :thumbsup:

thanks Chris,

I agree with your post, but don't see how the tares are gathered first, if the reapers are the ones gathering the tares.  To me, this would imply that they (the reapers) were raised first, to then gather the tares.  ?? 

Paul persecuted the church before he became a laborer in the field, didn't he?  :wink2:

[Chris]

If the tares are "the children of the wicked one" and we are ALL by nature "the children of wrath" (NONE being righteous) then how can it be anything other than "the tares" that are gathered first? That's what needs to be "burned up" isn't it?

[Zeek]

If the tares are "the children of the wicked one" and we are ALL by nature "the children of wrath" (NONE being righteous) then how can it be anything other than "the tares" that are gathered first? That's what needs to be "burned up" isn't it?

but who gathered those tares??

[Zeek]

ok, see where i am struggling with your thinking is the "applying inward".  if Saul/Paul was a tare, and that was burned First, then by my understading of what you are saying; is that he then (now a reaper) went and gathered his own tares again to be burned;  ??   since the reapers (mesengers/angels) do the gathering of the tares to be burned.  

the only way for me to apply this according to my interpretation of your view, is

he was a tare (Saul) got burned first and became Paul; who then went and reaped the remaining tares OTHER peoples tares, not his own??  


The other thing I struggle with a bit, or am thinking about; is the "Saul" to "Paul" conversion, I take it you see as the "end of the age, or the harvest".  In other words; to you is "pentacost" each person's "harvest/end of the age"?  I see that as the beginning; with a consumation (end of age) after the "trying of faith period", ie: after the "40 day wilderness" test. 

[Zeek]

who were the reapers that gathered "saul's" tares?? 

[sheila]

 Acts 9;4  He FELL TO THE GTOUND and heard a voice say

  Saul,Saul! Why do you persecute me?


     Matthew 3; 11 But after me will come one who is more

  POWERFUL than I,, whose sandals I am not fit to carry

  He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire.

   HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR

HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN

AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

[Chris]

If the tares are "the children of the wicked one" and we are ALL by nature "the children of wrath" (NONE being righteous) then how can it be anything other than "the tares" that are gathered first? That's what needs to be "burned up" isn't it?

but who gathered those tares??

Those who laboured in the field before them, whose labours they entered into.

Joh 4:38  I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.


One plants and another waters, but it is GOD who gives the increase. Amen?

[Chris]

ok, see where i am struggling with your thinking is the "applying inward".  if Saul/Paul was a tare, and that was burned First, then by my understading of what you are saying; is that he then (now a reaper) went and gathered his own tares again to be burned;  ??   since the reapers (mesengers/angels) do the gathering of the tares to be burned.  

the only way for me to apply this according to my interpretation of your view, is

he was a tare (Saul) got burned first and became Paul; who then went and reaped the remaining tares OTHER peoples tares, not his own??  


The other thing I struggle with a bit, or am thinking about; is the "Saul" to "Paul" conversion, I take it you see as the "end of the age, or the harvest".  In other words; to you is "pentacost" each person's "harvest/end of the age"?  I see that as the beginning; with a consumation (end of age) after the "trying of faith period", ie: after the "40 day wilderness" test. 

yes, the "first" (natural) man vs the "second" spiritual man... the "old" man vs the "new "man".... the "creature" vs the "new creature".

[Chris]

who were the reapers that gathered "saul's" tares?? 

Quite notably, the Lord himself; though isn't that case with all of us? Do we not all have our own "road to Damascus experience" when the Lord "appears" to us?

[Chris]

Acts 9;4  He FELL TO THE GTOUND and heard a voice say

  Saul,Saul! Why do you persecute me?


     Matthew 3; 11 But after me will come one who is more

  POWERFUL than I,, whose sandals I am not fit to carry

  He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire.

   HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR

HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN

AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

:bowing:

[Zeek]

thanks Chris for your patience with my questions.  :)

[Zeek]

Acts 9;4  He FELL TO THE GTOUND and heard a voice say

 Saul,Saul! Why do you persecute me?


    Matthew 3; 11 But after me will come one who is more

 POWERFUL than I,, whose sandals I am not fit to carry

 He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire.

  HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR

HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN

AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

:bowing:

so do you see the "chaff" as the same as tares?  I don't.

I believe the "chaff" is the fiery trial of one's faith, the proces of putting on immortality, the refiners fire.   

which, imo; those given faith are the means (reapers) who burn the tares.  

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: To me, since angels means messages OR messengers, I see them as both messages and messengers with a message. When the Lord shows me something new or different to my thinking previously, spiritually speaking, what was "planted" before was just consumed by the fire of His appearing in the "new" message.

In the same way, when someone speaks/writes something that He quickens or makes life in me, again, what was "planted" before in it's place was just uprooted and burned in the fire of His appearing. Just my  :2c: Blessings....

[Zeek]

:cloud9: To me, since angels means messages OR messengers, I see them as both messages and messengers with a message. When the Lord shows me something new or different to my thinking previously, spiritually speaking, what was "planted" before was just consumed by the fire of His appearing in the "new" message.

In the same way, when someone speaks/writes something that He quickens or makes life in me, again, what was "planted" before in it's place was just uprooted and burned in the fire of His appearing. Just my  :2c: Blessings....

so is it the "chaff" that keeps getting burned, or is it "tares"; or do you see them as the same.  The process you describe to me, is a gift of "fire" that is gifted to you through faith.  Do you see the tares and chaff as the same??