When was Jesus really born

[Livelystone]

Most know that not only is Christmas day not the date of the birth of Jesus but is also the date of a pagan holiday........ same goes for Easter

No wonder the glory of God is very rarely seen within the church in this country.

However amongst new believers in countries where the Good News is just being introduced He still appears in His Majesty doing signs and wonders not unlike what the New Testament church did after the ascension of Jesus Christ to the right hand of the Father.

Here is as good a link as any to the real birth date of Jesus.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...Jesus-Birthday


Doug

[Molly]

Well, yes, we know this--but it's not really clear exactly when Jesus was born, and I cherish the fact that we get to celebrate his birth once a year together, no matter that the day is arbitrary--thereby proving that God turns all things to the good.
[PS your link doesn't work]

Some say these wise men are the descendants of those taught by Daniel 400 years before the birth of Christ to look for the signs of the Messiah in the heavens.



1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

4And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

7Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

8And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

9When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.

11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

12And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

13And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

14When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

--Matthew 2

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: And.......wise men still seek Him.......  :icon_king:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

I think it was April 15th

[Livelystone]

Sorry about the link not being pasted in right....... this one should work or at least it does when I preview my post.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Jesus-Birthday

[natcat86]

I really dont understand why we celebrate His birth as the only birthdays celebrated in the bible are Pharoe, Jobs children and Herod's, all lead to death!

Also why clebrate Christs birth on a pagan holiday, with all the pagan trimings, tree, santa(molech), yule log?? When you look into it Christmas couldn't be more pagan.

Put 'pagan christmas' into google or youtube and you'll find a wealth of info. We are told specifically not to mix our worship of God with paganism, thats what kept getting Isreal in trouble and look at the state so called 'Christendom' is in now!

Lord purge Your church of all paganism!

[Molly]

St Nicholas, Bishop of Myra and Saint of Bari
The Story of St Nicholas

Saint Nicholas was born in 260AD in Patara, a coastal town in what is now Turkey. The poor knew him throughout the land for his generosity, his love for children and being associated with ships, the sea and sailors. He was eventually consecrated Bishop of Myra, just miles from his hometown.

Our western tradition of Santa Claus and Father Christmas originates with the beloved saint. Many Christian churches and many countries observe December 6th, his feast day, with great celebrations, processions, services and gift giving.

Many legends surround his life. During the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian, Bishop Nicholas was imprisoned and tortured for his beliefs but he never forsook his faith. The new Emperor Constantine eventually released him. Tradition has it that Bishop Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in 325 with many other bishops, a meeting that produced what we today call "The Nicene Creed".




Saint Nicholas of Myra (ca. 280 - 341)
In the Eastern Church, St. Nicholas is considered the canon - the "measuring stick" - for bishops. He is not remembered because he was an exceptional administrator, but because he made the Christian faith believable for people of his time by living it himself radically and profoundly. Legends surround his life, all pointing to his love for others, especially for the poor and afflicted.

The Church realizes her essence whenever she stands with the poor, for that is where she finds her Spouse, Jesus Christ. This has been obscured by the power and royal trappings of Christendom. In our day, however, bishops themselves are redefining their lives, much the way St. Nicholas might have done in the ancient Church. "We bishops pledge to make clear through our lives and our attitudes that our preference is to evangelize and serve the poor." (Puebla, 1979)



http://www.stnicholassociety.com/History/

[natcat86]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjgoFziTRZw

Christmas is pagan

[Molly]

Yikes.  None of that sounds good, Nat.  But, fear not, --


Titus 1:15
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpgaWm2pnNs

[WhiteWings]

Lord purge Your church of all paganism!

That would be a very empty church. Very empty...

[WhiteWings]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjgoFziTRZw

Christmas is pagan

No more than new years eve or easter to name just two.

[jabcat]

PRAY, SAINTS!

Most of the "Christmas" things aside, these folks need our prayers.

"The deadly Christmas Eve ambush of a Christian bus driver in Iraq Thursday and a bombing earlier this week targeting a 1,200-year-old church are driving Iraq's few remaining Christians quietly underground in the hours before the holy day begins."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581107,00.html

[martincisneros]

Definitely praying!

PRAY, SAINTS!

Most of the "Christmas" things aside, these folks need our prayers.

"The deadly Christmas Eve ambush of a Christian bus driver in Iraq Thursday and a bombing earlier this week targeting a 1,200-year-old church are driving Iraq's few remaining Christians quietly underground in the hours before the holy day begins."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581107,00.html

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Definitely. Please keep the Pakistani Christians lifted up as well. I've talked to 2 Pakistani ministers lately and they are literally being killed and their homes and churches burned by 100,000 plus mobs over there. Blessings....

[natcat86]

Lord purge Your church of all paganism!

That would be a very empty church. Very empty...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjgoFziTRZw

Christmas is pagan

No more than new years eve or easter no name just two.

Father is pretty clear, he hates paganism. We are lucky because He is so gracious we dont have to suffer the same fate as the Isralites who allowed paganism to creep into their worship. But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt Him as much. By tolerating or participating in Paganism we rob God of what is rightfully His. Christmas, New Year, Easter, its all just taking focus off God just enough that it isn't real worship of Him but in a way that we dont even realise. Christians defending Christmas, would you pray in a Budhist temple if they changed the symbols just enough to look like crosses?
The enemy is subtle, as Bob Dylan sang.

PRAY, SAINTS!

Most of the "Christmas" things aside, these folks need our prayers.

"The deadly Christmas Eve ambush of a Christian bus driver in Iraq Thursday and a bombing earlier this week targeting a 1,200-year-old church are driving Iraq's few remaining Christians quietly underground in the hours before the holy day begins."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581107,00.html

Praying I cant imagine the persecution some people are facing, it doesn't seem real somehow in my cosy corner of the world. I'm just so thankful that we can trust Father with every circumstance, that He is working everything for the good.  :Pray:

[WhiteWings]

Father is pretty clear, he hates paganism.
..... would you pray in a Budhist temple if they changed the symbols just enough to look like crosses?

Sun worshipping religions all have a cross as their symbol.
It symbolizes a certain setting of planets when the sun gets reborn. (days get longer)
The cross predates Christianity by a very long time.

[natcat86]

It was just an example, a poor one really as the cross is just as much paganised as anything. Constantine thought it would make a powerful symbol for the Roman sheilds.

BUT anyway sorry all for being  :offtopic:

I heard the other day that it must have been around September time that Jesus was born because there were still Shephards in the feilds. Also Bethlehem was where they raised all the lambs that were to be sacrficed at the Temple. Didnt know that. Amazing detail, the birth place of the Lamb of God!  :cloud9:

[sparrow]

Titus 1:15
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.

Exactly.

[natcat86]

To the pure all things are pure becuase they have a mind like Christ, they dont think of or want un-pure things. I hope to be there one day... so for now I am trying to rid myself of all impurity with the help of the HS.

[Molly]

3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

--Rom 14

[WhiteWings]

I heard the other day that it must have been around September time that Jesus was born because there were still Shephards in the feilds.

Yep. September was the best traveling time too. Not to hot. Not to cold. Anf just after the harvest. So things from the corners of the fields.

Also Bethlehem was where they raised all the lambs that were to be sacrficed at the Temple.

250.000

[natcat86]

Well I just know that since I found out about all the pagan roots of christmas I am seriously considering not being a part of it. Thats how I feel I dont expect anyone else to think the same way I do. I've just been giving my opinion, not judging others. Ironically if anyone thinks I have been judging, your judging me  :happy3: Only messin y'all.

:girlheart:

[sparrow]

Well I just know that since I found out about all the pagan roots of christmas I am seriously considering not being a part of it. Thats how I feel I dont expect anyone else to think the same way I do. I've just been giving my opinion, not judging others. Ironically if anyone thinks I have been judging, your judging me  :happy3: Only messin y'all.

:girlheart:

hey natcat... I understand. I had a year where I was going all through the pagan roots, etc. and I pretty much didn't celebrate christmas that year. We've all got to stay true to our beliefs, true to our heart, etc. so I am definitely not judging you.

Perhaps you will find that you will never celebrate Christmas ever again. And there is nothing wrong with that decision. We're all different.  :HeartThrob:

For me, I'll just tell you that what I later discovered was that it didn't matter where certain traditions came from. I didn't know before and it didn't bother me, why should I let it bother me now? Outside influences mean NOTHING to me. It is what is in MY heart that matters. I don't care if people saw christmas trees as  a symbol of this or that. For ME... I see a beautiful tree that God created, an EVERGREEN tree. I have my own personal symbolism. I love to go out and see all the houses lit up, it brings joy to my heart. I see all the beautiful lights and what I see are little beautiful lights in the darkness. This dark world that we are living in is only dark because people do NOT KNOW That God loves them with an immense, unbelievable love.

I see these pretty little lights and it reminds me that there ARE those who DO know.... little lights in the darkness. I also love to see the creativity and imagination people display with their lights and their decorations. Knowing that most of these folks are WANTING other people to FEEL HAPPY and smile when they see their display. Now how often does that kind of stuff happen all over?
That makes me happy to think that what people did to their houses... they want to DRAW people in and make them smile.  :happy3: I like that.

People's "good will toward men" comes out in full force. People donate MORE during the holiday season than any other time of year.

This season is somewhat magical...memories of childhood... just a general feeling of peace.

Families getting together. Sure there are downsides to everything. We all have our own problems and issues. But for the most part, families stop to think of each other. I hate the materialism but people stopping and thinking of their loved ones and wanting to give them a gift that will make their face light up.

It's a time when Jesus is floating around in the minds of so many people.... whether they believe or not.

Good cheer, good will toward men.... there is a LOT to celebrate.

For me, it's about pushing AWAY any shred of darkness, and clinging to LIGHT.
LOVE is love. I don't care if someone says my tree in my house means I'm worshipping some pagan god or what have you. I am, of course... NOT! God SEES the heart. That is the MOST important thing. God SEES THE HEART.

And that is why "to the pure.... all things are pure.." It's not that you are some perfect person! It's just that if you see something THROUGH pure eyes... do you get what I mean?

Look at little children... the joy, the wonder, the happiness in their little faces...
Do you think the Father loves to see that?
Of course.

Be ye as little children...

Peace to you.
I absolutely do not judge you.
I understand where you are.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
We're all on our own path.
Neither of us are right or wrong.
We're just being who we are.
and God loves us just AS WE ARE.

:HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob:

[natcat86]

Sparrow you are a really special and beautiful person.  :HeartThrob:

I feel a bit of... grief at the thought of not celebrating christmas for all the reasons you have listed. And to be honest this year I am going along with a lot of it becuase my husband isnt really convinced that we shouldn't yet. But I just think that Father is being quite clear with me at the moment, quite strict even becuase I have let so much rubbish creep in to my walk. But like I have said before its amazing that Father knows me so well and you so well and everyone so well that he can be teaching us all completely different things at the same time depending on our individual needs.

WOW!

  :HeartThrob::cloud9: :HeartThrob:

[sparrow]

Sparrow you are a really special and beautiful person.  :HeartThrob:

YOU are really special and beautiful NatCat... I'm really glad you joined tentmaker... :HeartThrob: :icon_flower:

I feel a bit of... grief at the thought of not celebrating christmas for all the reasons you have listed. And to be honest this year I am going along with a lot of it becuase my husband isnt really convinced that we shouldn't yet. But I just think that Father is being quite clear with me at the moment, quite strict even becuase I have let so much rubbish creep in to my walk. But like I have said before its amazing that Father knows me so well and you so well and everyone so well that he can be teaching us all completely different things at the same time depending on our individual needs.

WOW!
  :HeartThrob::cloud9: :HeartThrob:

Amen sister!  :HeartThrob:

:happy3: