If God works EVERYTHING into his will

[onlytruth]

Hi everyone...
heres my take on it,.None of us can stand before God since we are not refined completely.In order for the refining process to be accomplished our hearts have to be seen for what they are.This is what occurs on a regular basis through various trials and tribulations,it is in these times where we chose to die to ourselves or not.When we don't die to selves...nasty stuff happens.God didn't want this,He wants us to chose Him for relationship.
But we all know either now or later ,we will be with Him.
So God lets us make our own decisions; because like Him we create some times good sometimes bad.one day though we will choose life on every opportunity until then we still need it written on our hearts
blessings :icon_king:

[Doc]

if one believes that the universe is deterministic, then I suppose one would indeed have to conclude that God does will for such things to happen as well.

Whatever do you mean?

If the universe is deterministic, which is to say that everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen has been preordained by God from the very beginning, then one must conclude that it was in God's will for all of those things to happen because if it was not then they would not have been so ordained.

Another way to look at it is; If these things weren't "supposed" to happen, then when did God lose control of his Universe?

"All is of God"  (2 Corinthians 5:18)

[willieH]

willieH: Hi OT... :hithere:

As always, you are welcome to see things as you do, and it is not my purpose to change those views... If God should use any of us in the others circumstances, then it is HE which is changing us... :nod:

That said...

Hi everyone...
heres my take on it,.None of us can stand before God since we are not refined completely.

We ALL stand before God on a continuous basis, Onlytruth -- Psalms 139:7-12

In order for the refining process to be accomplished our hearts have to be seen for what they are.This is what occurs on a regular basis through various trials and tribulations,it is in these times where we chose to die to ourselves or not.When we don't die to selves...nasty stuff happens.God didn't want this,He wants us to chose Him for relationship.

I'm just asking questions for you to consider...  :friendstu:

:omg:  I don't agree with this statement -- O-T! 

How can it be said by YHVH that He is an "ALMIGHTY God", and yet -- things occur within His Creation (over which is His "ALL MIGHT"), that He did not agree with, as becoming manifest? :dunno:

But we all know either now or later ,we will be with Him.
So God lets us make our own decisions; because like Him we create some times good sometimes bad.

Again, a bit of disagreement.  Yes, we DO create some times "good" and sometimes "bad" -- however, it is according to Him and His DECLARATION of us, that we "create" these scenarios -- Isaiah 46:10 -- Rom 4:17 --

As for GOD "creating" sometimes good and sometimes bad... I disagree COMPLETELY.  He ALWAYS "creates" GOOD.  Even EVIL (as "created" by Him) has been exposed (via Men IN TIME) --- for what it IS, which is ETERNALLY on behalf of GOOD to magnify GOOD -- for what it REALLY IS...

As JESUS plainly stated -- "I CAN, of MINE OWN SELF -- DO NOTHING" -- John 5:30 --  If this is true of CHRIST, then it also must be true of us...

If CHRIST could DO NOTHING "apart" from God,  How can we assert that -- "OF OURSELVES", we "DO" anything apart from YHVH?  Is this a proposal that WE are "ABLE" to DO something CHRIST COULD not?  :mshock:

We LIVE and MOVE and have our BEING within Him! -- Acts 17:28 -- and ALL POWER is HIS -- Rom 13:1 -- so even if POWER (as it appears to us) is misused, it was HE which ISSUED it KNOWING BEFORE the "misuse" --- that the power ISSUED would be "misused"!

If this is indeed true (which it IS)... Then the "misuse" has to be deduced as INTENDED!  For YHVH issued to the "misuser", power to "misuse" with PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the "misuse"...  :dontknow:

Bottom line... we are on HIS PROGRAM -- He is NOT... on ours -- :mnah:

HE is working ALL THINGS -- which includes EVERYTHING -- Eph 1:11 --  :dontknow: -- (ALL THINGS does not disinclude ANYTHING)...

one day though we will choose life on every opportunity until then we still need it written on our hearts
blessings :icon_king:

And it is within the process of TIME and (within this life = LAKE of FIRE), that this -- "writing" -- is taking place... :nod:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[onlytruth]

Hi willie,I read everyones posts and I respect them all,since it is God who gives the revelation.
That being said,for us to be in complete relationship with the father(only doing what He shows us)we must chose rightly in every situation,until then we will be refined by the refiner.
Some will chose to follow their flesh and in doing so, will only see in part.Jesus decided(because he had the revelation)to choose well and so became the first manifested son after 30 years!
So if we want to live in abundant life...choose ye this day whom you will serve,as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.YUP we get to choose but ultimately if we always choose wrong God will still reconcile all things now our later
blessings :icon_king:

[peacemaker]

The SPIRIT is not vindictive, and no anger management classes are necessary. God is not emotionally or mentally imbalanced; needful of psychological help or spiritual counseling. He is not known for his evil disposition.

Situations wanting: "Are those who commit rape, murder, and other such atrocities at the level of truth or love?"

peacemaker

[fullarmor2]

Hey folks.   I have a question.     I am definitely  believing now in God's  sovereignty,  and that man's free will is very limited.   But what about all the scriptures that say ,  "whosoever will may come" ,  "for whosoever calls upon the Lord will be saved",    and others.     Now,   since God knows already who is going to do what ever,  and when,    why does the Word make it sound like a call to people to exercise their free will when ever they feel like it?     And I know if I ever start talking against free will beliefs,  they will bring this up in defense.  What about all these "whosoever wills"!     

[jabcat]

Hi fa squared.

I don't want to fuel a free will debate (one I might of necessity shut down later  :laughing7:) but I think yours is an honest, fair question.  Maybe because I've wondered about it myself  :mblush:.

My first reaction to your question was "whosoever does, has had God do that work within him - giving him the faith to believe".  I went out and found this from J. Preston Eby, who I believe says the same thing in more detail;

"But does not Scripture say, 'Whosoever will may come'? It does, but does this mean that everybody has the will to come? What of those who won't come? 'Whosoever will may come' no more implies that fallen man has the power in himself to come, than 'Stretch forth thine hand' implies that the man with the withered arm had the inherent ability in himself to comply. It should be obvious that the ability came from the One who spoke the word: 'Stretch forth thine hand.' In and of himself the natural man has power to reject Christ; but in and of himself he has not the power to receive Christ. And why? Because he has a mind that is 'enmity against' Him (Rom. 8:7); because he has a heart that hates Him (Jn. 15:18). Man chooses that which is according to his nature, and therefore before he will ever choose or prefer that which is divine and spiritual, a new nature must be imparted to him; in other words, he must be born again.

Let me appeal to the actual experience of the reader of these lines. Was there not a time when you were unwilling to come to Christ? There was. Since then you have come to Him. Are you now prepared to give Him all the glory for that (Ps.115:1)? Do you not acknowledge that you came to Christ because the Holy Spirit brought you from unwillingness to willingness? You do. Then is it not also a patent fact that the Holy Spirit has not done in many others what He has done in you! Granting that many others have heard the Gospel, been shown their need of Christ, yet, they are still unwilling to come to Him. Thus He has wrought more in you, than in them. Do you answer, Yet I remember well the time when the word of salvation was presented to me, and my conscience testifies that my will acted and that I yielded to the claims of Christ upon me. Quite true. But before you 'Yielded,' the Holy Spirit overcame the native enmity of your mind against God, and this enmity He does not overcome in all at this time. Should it be said, That is because they are unwilling for their enmity to be overcome? Ah, none are thus 'willing' till He has put forth His all-mighty power and wrought a miracle of grace in the heart."

James.

[fullarmor2]

   Thanks a lot for the response!    It really addressed what I want to understand better .   :thumbsup:
   

[Seth]

"Whosoever will may come"

My thought on that. It's like someone saying, whosoever may end up in a lake will get wet, then that person proceeding to throw everyone in a lake to get wet. It's simply a statement of fact.

So, in that light, the phrase "whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" simply describes the inevitable effect upon those who call upon the name of the Lord....even if the Lord himself is the one that inspires them to call upon his name.

[peacemaker]

"God doesn't want us gathering in our separate groups, His will is that we be composed of one fabric."

Yet many cannot weave these to thoughts, together.

peacemaker