Dissapointment

[Dallas]

I have been coming here for years, I've seen mods come and go and members come and go and I try my best not to hold anything against anybody but it's getting to a point where it's not individuals but has become the whole group.

There is no longer a desire for enlightenment by UR believers. Instead mysticism and supposition has taken over. People here aren't interested in sound understanding but invent their own vain ideologies.

Just as mainstream Eternal Damnation believers got way off track of the gospel it sure hasn't taken UR to long to do the same. Just as they invented unbiblical docrtrine to establish their claims, UR believers are well on their way also.

I tell everybody here right now so when they see it coming they aren't taken off gaurd; there will have to be another revelation from God given to another people about the goodness He has for the world, the same revelation that started UR, because this revelation has become man polluted.        This site has stopped being discussion and has become a den for cliques and a battlefield for anyone who may think differently. People used to come here to search for answers to life's questions... now all that takes place is judgement against those who arent here... we are just the newest gang... The Universalists.

[Seth]

I've been coming here for years too, and it is pretty much the same, except for that it has more order and a fine moderating staff. However, over the course of four years I have not noticed a change in the way people have had different ideas and questions about things.

As long as people have different brains, they will think in different ways. And as long as I have been a member here (maybe you have been one longer) I have not noticed any deviation from that trend on these boards.

[Dallas]

I don't expect too many people here will agree.... that's like asking the head chef why his kitchen is dirty.

[Dallas]

Yeah particularly the scriptures which say that Jesus died for the Church. They use the same faulty reasoning as they do with "blood shed for many." That a scripture says that Jesus died for the Church, simply references a group of people within the larger "WHOLE world" that Christ died for.

One Calvinist I saw on YouTube rationalized the "whole world" statement to mean basically a figure of speech. He related it to when someone says "I have been sitting here forever" where forever is not literal. So saying that Christ died for the whole world amounted to an exaggeration. Can you believe that?! You probably can. ;-)

The first thing I thought of is: if we are free to interpret the "whole world" as nothing more than an exaggeration, then why wouldn't we also interpret "eternal torment" to be equally an exaggeration? Hmmmmm?

I guess what I said has no bearing eh Seth...

At least we don't sit around discussing why everybody else is wrong and why we are right.

[Seth]

Yeah particularly the scriptures which say that Jesus died for the Church. They use the same faulty reasoning as they do with "blood shed for many." That a scripture says that Jesus died for the Church, simply references a group of people within the larger "WHOLE world" that Christ died for.

One Calvinist I saw on YouTube rationalized the "whole world" statement to mean basically a figure of speech. He related it to when someone says "I have been sitting here forever" where forever is not literal. So saying that Christ died for the whole world amounted to an exaggeration. Can you believe that?! You probably can. ;-)

The first thing I thought of is: if we are free to interpret the "whole world" as nothing more than an exaggeration, then why wouldn't we also interpret "eternal torment" to be equally an exaggeration? Hmmmmm?

I guess what I said has no bearing eh Seth...

At least we don't sit around discussing why everybody else is wrong and why we are right.

If you read through my posts you will see that I included myself in the same category. The point of that thread is to talk about effective ways to share the truth and cause people to rethink, not to "sit around discussing why everybody else is wrong and why we are right" as though we are doing it to pass the time...

I shared my own experience in that thread as to how the truth was communicated to me and what made me rethink what I formerly believed.

[Dallas]

My point is that is what this site really tends to be.

There are many who have left for that exact reason. That they want to discuss and share but what they get is the main clique debating them or ignoring them pushing them out.

There are so many "experts" that even the experts seem full of junk.

Even you can't deny the move to mysticism that has exploded on this site if, like you said, you have been coming here for years. The doctrine people are pettling isn't profitable for anything except a religous movie along side Constantine.

Thread hi-jacking, people ignoring others, people attacking others and grouping up against them just because they have something else to input. My absolute favorite, someone coming to defend someone else because of emotional attatchment! God forbid anyone would agree with a rediculous statement and defend it simply because they are freinds with someone.

[Dallas]

If you're a Christian Universalist and you fiercely disagree with anyone that comes to these boards that believes in eternal punishment, just remember that but for the grace of God, you'd probably believe the same thing!  Our beliefs in the Universal Restoration will stand the Biblical scrutiny of anyone who comes to these boards.  If you don't know how to answer someone to their satisfaction, just back away and realize that someone else here will probably have just the answer; just the "Word in season."

- Martin

Even the Purpose for this Board is a telling statement.

WAR!!!

I remember a time when people didn't "battle" anyone. Things have changed, not for the better.

[legoman]

Honestly I find this to be one of the most friendly and welcoming boards I've ever been on.  I don't see it as "cliquey" at all.  I see new members being welcomed in, some stay, some don't.

Its easy to bounce ideas around here without being mocked, judged, and/or condemened to hell as a heretic.  Even opposing views are allowed (annihilation, ET) here, as long as the person doesn't become abrasive or disruptive.

What are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

[rosered]

My point is that is what this site really tends to be.

There are many who have left for that exact reason. That they want to discuss and share but what they get is the main clique debating them or ignoring them pushing them out.

There are so many "experts" that even the experts seem full of junk.

Even you can't deny the move to mysticism that has exploded on this site if, like you said, you have been coming here for years. The doctrine people are pettling isn't profitable for anything except a religous movie along side Constantine.

Thread hi-jacking, people ignoring others, people attacking others and grouping up against them just because they have something else to input. My absolute favorite, someone coming to defend someone else because of emotional attatchment! God forbid anyone would agree with a rediculous statement and defend it simply because they are freinds with someone.

:HeartThrob:  still love ya though Dallas !  hang in there bro ..

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Dallas, noone is perfect, if someone is ganging up on you or acting like an idiot, leave them too it.  It's their choice, just as it is your choice to bother about it.  
Just chat to the ones you do like, noone is forcing you to be here, and idiots and cliques are all part of human nature, if you think there is some kind of perfect forum or group somewhere your in for much more 'dissapointments'.
You have to accept people and their opinions and indifferences, forgive them and crack on.

[Dallas]

What are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

- legoman

There are some real taking of liberties of flesh, the first and second adam, carnal nature etc.

Mysticism- this morning I had the displeasure of reading a newbiew's thread to see that person getting fed a bunch of stuff about red this and red that and how Adam and Edom are the same thing and that Adam means red earth...

If you want to discuss that idea as the validity of biblical foundation then go ahead and bring it up... but don't hijack the thread and present straight forward error based information. Sure that is the persons opinion, that's fine, have the opinion, but don't teach a newbiew who starts a thread with, I new here and to UR what is ur's response to the devil.

The whole idea also was being supported by others. That mystical stuff is hogwash. Blending words and coming up with some doctrines, non-biblically relevant of even founded.

[Dallas]

Dallas, noone is perfect, if someone is ganging up on you or acting like an idiot, leave them too it.  It's their choice, just as it is your choice to bother about it. 
Just chat to the ones you do like, noone is forcing you to be here, and idiots and cliques are all part of human nature, if you think there is some kind of perfect forum or group somewhere your in for much more 'dissapointments'.
You have to accept people and their opinions and indifferences, forgive them and crack on.

First off....

If people want to gang up on me that's fine, I know how to handle myself. I know when to walk and when to stand.

noone is forcing you to be here

This is the new slogan? The love of God? The love that is exactly what is being displayed here... couldn't have asked for a more accurate portrait.

The whole reason I bring this up isn't for me, but for the goodness of the whole community. I believe this site has a lot of good to offer, but when people pollute a good thing that doesn't mean pick up and move.

[Taffy]

Hi Dallas

in reply to the op...

Folk will always have a Tendancy to lean towards others of a Similar understanding, nothing there changes ..if theres been any wars of late its between Literalism and spirtiualism, or mysticsism , define it as you will.

theres always a conflict of opinion where ever one posts come Forums and as our understanding grows, we kinda change some...in PART, tis what Seth was endeavouring to convey.

..Card posted this months back..in response to the MYSTERIES ,some may call mystcsism     ya  maybe surprised Just HOW MYSTIC paul was....



plz excuse the on going convo..If you wish to veiw the thread in its entirety ..ill happilly post the link

 I don't know what you are basing your information on, but here is what they have always used as a principle for studying scripture. It is well known in Jewish circles, and this particular quote is from a Messianic rabbi.

"The system of hebraic understanding used by all hebrew prophets and scholars was and remains a system that goes by the acronym of PARDES which stands for PASHAT/ Literal primary meaning, REMEZ/Hints in the text of something deeper, DRASH/ The added understanding that can only be gleaned by parables, riddles, stories etc and SOD/ Secrets and mysteries which are mysterious underlying secrets revealed in text."

 In addition to that, Paul said though I know ALL MYSTERIES...and there are other scriptures that mention mystery or mysteries. So I consider Paul to be the premiere example of a "mystical Christian", particularly since what He was taught of the mysteries was given to Him by the Spirit of the risen Lord not by the disciples who knew Him after the flesh, nor the imaginations of men, and certainly not by the devil.

Obviously there were Jews who went about establishing their own righteousness and  it only got worse after Jesus came on the scene (out of bitterness and jealousy); much of the Talmud (which is not considered scripture) is proof of this. But to call THEM "mystical" is inaccurate, just as calling the other "branch" of them not mystical is also inaccurate, as the OT came through mystical experiences with God which is to say, through the Spirit in various ways.

John the Baptist's father was a levitical priest, and he certainly had a mystical experience with the authority of the Spirit of God, as did the devout man Simeon and the woman Anna in the temple at Jesus's presentation. The OT is full of such experiences, and what you fail to realize is that mystical experiences come with understanding, in all your getting, get understanding. The experience cannot be separated from the Spirit of Truth, because they are one and the same, therefore understanding is automatically present.

Understanding here is not as the carnal mind's understanding of a provable fact, but it itself is an attribute of the Spirit of God and is instantaneously deposited into the believer, as if it was something they had always known , ie. no thinking about it was necessary or even possible prior to receiving it, because it BYPASSES THE CARNAL MIND ALTOGETHER and goes directly into the spirit, and THEN is retrievable by the carnal mind, not the other way around.

Simply put, it is the culmination of union, as between a man/Spirit and his wife/soul = "child"/new LIFE. Just as we are not aware of the exact second of conception in the natural, so too are we unaware of the twinkling of an eye split second that the mystical experience brought understanding, for as soon as it happens, it produced new life.

[Dallas]

Just chat to the ones you do like

Right, just have my ears tickled with favoured man....

[HartleyDamboiseII]

What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

What are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

- legoman

There are some real taking of liberties of flesh, the first and second adam, carnal nature etc.

Mysticism- this morning I had the displeasure of reading a newbiew's thread to see that person getting fed a bunch of stuff about red this and red that and how Adam and Edom are the same thing and that Adam means red earth...

If you want to discuss that idea as the validity of biblical foundation then go ahead and bring it up... but don't hijack the thread and present straight forward error based information. Sure that is the persons opinion, that's fine, have the opinion, but don't teach a newbiew who starts a thread with, I new here and to UR what is ur's response to the devil.

The whole idea also was being supported by others. That mystical stuff is hogwash. Blending words and coming up with some doctrines, non-biblically relevant of even founded.

I aggree to some extent here Dallas, i have noticed a few on here are not even CHristians and are constantly saying the OT was not God breathed but written by man (or any part of the bible they dont like).

There are a few idolitors on here.  And i really dont see the point of them coming here at all, because they are corrupting the views of others with man made beliefs.

If it was my website i would do something about it, but as it stands we just have to show them theyre error and put up with it basically.

[rosered]

Just chat to the ones you do like

Right, just have my ears tickled with favoured man....

I know you are mad at me Dallas
 and am so sorry if I offended you in any way  :HeartThrob: rose

The Way of Love
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Dallas]

Hey Taffy,

I think it is very important to have open discussion about those and all things.

My problem is when people don't make it a topic, but instead attack people and preach it against someone elses questions as opposed to discussion.

[rosered]

What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

 Dear Lee we dont want to get off topic .. :sigh:


mys⋅ti⋅cism  /ˈmɪstəˌsɪzəm/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [mis-tuh-siz-uhm]  Show IPA
Use mysticism in a Sentence
See web results for mysticism
See images of mysticism
–noun 1. the beliefs, ideas, or mode of thought of mystics.
2. a doctrine of an immediate spiritual intuition of truths believed to transcend ordinary understanding, or of a direct, intimate union of the soul with God through contemplation or ecstasy.
3. obscure thought or speculation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1730–40; mystic + -ism mys·ti·cism  (mĭs'tĭ-sĭz'əm)    
n.  

Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.

The experience of such communion as described by mystics.


A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.

Vague, groundless speculation.
Cultural Dictionary

mysticism


In religion, the attempt by an individual to achieve a personal union with God or with some other divine being or principle. Mystics generally practice daily meditation.
:HeartThrob:

  Dallas this is over the root word for Adam  is it not ??
  I am sorry to have offended you  in any ways ..
   peace rose  :HeartThrob:

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Dallas, noone is perfect, if someone is ganging up on you or acting like an idiot, leave them too it.  It's their choice, just as it is your choice to bother about it. 
Just chat to the ones you do like, noone is forcing you to be here, and idiots and cliques are all part of human nature, if you think there is some kind of perfect forum or group somewhere your in for much more 'dissapointments'.
You have to accept people and their opinions and indifferences, forgive them and crack on.

First off....

If people want to gang up on me that's fine, I know how to handle myself. I know when to walk and when to stand.

noone is forcing you to be here

This is the new slogan? The love of God? The love that is exactly what is being displayed here... couldn't have asked for a more accurate portrait.

The whole reason I bring this up isn't for me, but for the goodness of the whole community. I believe this site has a lot of good to offer, but when people pollute a good thing that doesn't mean pick up and move.

Your a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

[Taffy]

Hey Taffy,

I think it is very important to have open discussion about those and all things.

My problem is when people don't make it a topic, but instead attack people and preach it against someone elses questions as opposed to discussion.

I understand your point...and  assure ANY personal attacks By anyone..Including the ADMIN [ that to goes for me]on this Board will not go amiss , not by me anyway..but that said, sometimes posts are made and JUST LEFT...as Ive personally come to understand, sometimes ya just let things BE....as for PREACHING....

I dont believe this is a A BOARD for PREACHING..if folk desire to PREACH..then I strongly suggest Get your OWN blog \FORUM and preach elsewhere.


If you feel offended some ways...point it out and post the mods.... :icon_flower:

[Dallas]

What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

This is what i am talking about...

The "real meaning"... what are flowers, what are hills and what could the fork mean...

If you have any real interest say it, "Dallas, what do you mean by mysticism?"

of course unless you were just being sarcastic which would validate everything else I have been saying.

If it was my website i would do something about it, but as it stands we just have to show them theyre error and put up with it basically.

-jesushandsarekindness

Truth is this is our website... we represent a side of jesus, ask Gary what he intened about this site.

He wants to free people, and provide a place a saftey for all people to come and discuss the cross and jesus's work for all mankind. We are to stand up for that. We are members, or this, not visitors. This is our safe place, at least it used to be.

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Taffy, that was the best post I have seen this year.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

This is what i am talking about...

The "real meaning"... what are flowers, what are hills and what could the fork mean...

If you have any real interest say it, "Dallas, what do you mean by mysticism?"

of course unless you were just being sarcastic which would validate everything else I have been saying.

If it was my website i would do something about it, but as it stands we just have to show them theyre error and put up with it basically.

-jesushandsarekindness

Truth is this is our website... we represent a side of jesus, ask Gary what he intened about this site.

He wants to free people, and provide a place a saftey for all people to come and discuss the cross and jesus's work for all mankind. We are to stand up for that. We are members, or this, not visitors. This is our safe place, at least it used to be.

Well Dallas, im sorry to hear or your disapointment, i face it daily as well and it hurts worse when your with people who should know better, so i sympathize.  Im not sure where we go from here, but i agree that if people are preaching contrary to the Bible, then they should be gone.

Fair enough if someone is asking an honest question, but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

So...I dont know where we all go from here.

[Dallas]

Your a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

That's not an issue. I am not "unhappy" I am concerned with the overall move of personality the site is moving to.

I am not emotionally reacting to anything. I am bring up concerns that have been growing for awhile, maybe you should take alook at why you feel this is an emotion man out of control.

I am a man communicating to the community.

We need to be aware of what we are doing and how it effects others.

I realize responsibility lies in the hands of us elders, not so much the new people, but we elders need to step up and prevent what is happening... not pretending that it's not happening.