Tentmaker Forum

I have been coming here for years, I've seen mods come and go and members come and go and I try my best not to hold anything against anybody but it's getting to a point where it's not individuals but has become the whole group.

There is no longer a desire for enlightenment by UR believers. Instead mysticism and supposition has taken over. People here aren't interested in sound understanding but invent their own vain ideologies.

Just as mainstream Eternal Damnation believers got way off track of the gospel it sure hasn't taken UR to long to do the same. Just as they invented unbiblical docrtrine to establish their claims, UR believers are well on their way also.

I tell everybody here right now so when they see it coming they aren't taken off gaurd; there will have to be another revelation from God given to another people about the goodness He has for the world, the same revelation that started UR, because this revelation has become man polluted.        This site has stopped being discussion and has become a den for cliques and a battlefield for anyone who may think differently. People used to come here to search for answers to life's questions... now all that takes place is judgement against those who arent here... we are just the newest gang... The Universalists.

I've been coming here for years too, and it is pretty much the same, except for that it has more order and a fine moderating staff. However, over the course of four years I have not noticed a change in the way people have had different ideas and questions about things.

As long as people have different brains, they will think in different ways. And as long as I have been a member here (maybe you have been one longer) I have not noticed any deviation from that trend on these boards.

I don't expect too many people here will agree.... that's like asking the head chef why his kitchen is dirty.

QuoteYeah particularly the scriptures which say that Jesus died for the Church. They use the same faulty reasoning as they do with "blood shed for many." That a scripture says that Jesus died for the Church, simply references a group of people within the larger "WHOLE world" that Christ died for.

One Calvinist I saw on YouTube rationalized the "whole world" statement to mean basically a figure of speech. He related it to when someone says "I have been sitting here forever" where forever is not literal. So saying that Christ died for the whole world amounted to an exaggeration. Can you believe that?! You probably can. ;-)

The first thing I thought of is: if we are free to interpret the "whole world" as nothing more than an exaggeration, then why wouldn't we also interpret "eternal torment" to be equally an exaggeration? Hmmmmm?

I guess what I said has no bearing eh Seth...

At least we don't sit around discussing why everybody else is wrong and why we are right.

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:22:47 PM

QuoteYeah particularly the scriptures which say that Jesus died for the Church. They use the same faulty reasoning as they do with "blood shed for many." That a scripture says that Jesus died for the Church, simply references a group of people within the larger "WHOLE world" that Christ died for.

One Calvinist I saw on YouTube rationalized the "whole world" statement to mean basically a figure of speech. He related it to when someone says "I have been sitting here forever" where forever is not literal. So saying that Christ died for the whole world amounted to an exaggeration. Can you believe that?! You probably can. ;-)

The first thing I thought of is: if we are free to interpret the "whole world" as nothing more than an exaggeration, then why wouldn't we also interpret "eternal torment" to be equally an exaggeration? Hmmmmm?

I guess what I said has no bearing eh Seth...

At least we don't sit around discussing why everybody else is wrong and why we are right.

If you read through my posts you will see that I included myself in the same category. The point of that thread is to talk about effective ways to share the truth and cause people to rethink, not to "sit around discussing why everybody else is wrong and why we are right" as though we are doing it to pass the time...

I shared my own experience in that thread as to how the truth was communicated to me and what made me rethink what I formerly believed.

My point is that is what this site really tends to be.

There are many who have left for that exact reason. That they want to discuss and share but what they get is the main clique debating them or ignoring them pushing them out.

There are so many "experts" that even the experts seem full of junk.

Even you can't deny the move to mysticism that has exploded on this site if, like you said, you have been coming here for years. The doctrine people are pettling isn't profitable for anything except a religous movie along side Constantine.

Thread hi-jacking, people ignoring others, people attacking others and grouping up against them just because they have something else to input. My absolute favorite, someone coming to defend someone else because of emotional attatchment! God forbid anyone would agree with a rediculous statement and defend it simply because they are freinds with someone.

QuoteIf you're a Christian Universalist and you fiercely disagree with anyone that comes to these boards that believes in eternal punishment, just remember that but for the grace of God, you'd probably believe the same thing!  Our beliefs in the Universal Restoration will stand the Biblical scrutiny of anyone who comes to these boards.  If you don't know how to answer someone to their satisfaction, just back away and realize that someone else here will probably have just the answer; just the "Word in season."

- Martin

Even the Purpose for this Board is a telling statement.

WAR!!!

I remember a time when people didn't "battle" anyone. Things have changed, not for the better.

Honestly I find this to be one of the most friendly and welcoming boards I've ever been on.  I don't see it as "cliquey" at all.  I see new members being welcomed in, some stay, some don't.

Its easy to bounce ideas around here without being mocked, judged, and/or condemened to hell as a heretic.  Even opposing views are allowed (annihilation, ET) here, as long as the person doesn't become abrasive or disruptive.

What are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

QuoteMy point is that is what this site really tends to be.

There are many who have left for that exact reason. That they want to discuss and share but what they get is the main clique debating them or ignoring them pushing them out.

There are so many "experts" that even the experts seem full of junk.

Even you can't deny the move to mysticism that has exploded on this site if, like you said, you have been coming here for years. The doctrine people are pettling isn't profitable for anything except a religous movie along side Constantine.

Thread hi-jacking, people ignoring others, people attacking others and grouping up against them just because they have something else to input. My absolute favorite, someone coming to defend someone else because of emotional attatchment! God forbid anyone would agree with a rediculous statement and defend it simply because they are freinds with someone.

:HeartThrob:  still love ya though Dallas !  hang in there bro ..

Dallas, noone is perfect, if someone is ganging up on you or acting like an idiot, leave them too it.  It's their choice, just as it is your choice to bother about it.  
Just chat to the ones you do like, noone is forcing you to be here, and idiots and cliques are all part of human nature, if you think there is some kind of perfect forum or group somewhere your in for much more 'dissapointments'.
You have to accept people and their opinions and indifferences, forgive them and crack on.

QuoteWhat are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

- legoman

There are some real taking of liberties of flesh, the first and second adam, carnal nature etc.

Mysticism- this morning I had the displeasure of reading a newbiew's thread to see that person getting fed a bunch of stuff about red this and red that and how Adam and Edom are the same thing and that Adam means red earth...

If you want to discuss that idea as the validity of biblical foundation then go ahead and bring it up... but don't hijack the thread and present straight forward error based information. Sure that is the persons opinion, that's fine, have the opinion, but don't teach a newbiew who starts a thread with, I new here and to UR what is ur's response to the devil.

The whole idea also was being supported by others. That mystical stuff is hogwash. Blending words and coming up with some doctrines, non-biblically relevant of even founded.

QuoteDallas, noone is perfect, if someone is ganging up on you or acting like an idiot, leave them too it.  It's their choice, just as it is your choice to bother about it. 
Just chat to the ones you do like, noone is forcing you to be here, and idiots and cliques are all part of human nature, if you think there is some kind of perfect forum or group somewhere your in for much more 'dissapointments'.
You have to accept people and their opinions and indifferences, forgive them and crack on.

First off....

If people want to gang up on me that's fine, I know how to handle myself. I know when to walk and when to stand.

Quotenoone is forcing you to be here

This is the new slogan? The love of God? The love that is exactly what is being displayed here... couldn't have asked for a more accurate portrait.

The whole reason I bring this up isn't for me, but for the goodness of the whole community. I believe this site has a lot of good to offer, but when people pollute a good thing that doesn't mean pick up and move.

Hi Dallas

in reply to the op...

Folk will always have a Tendancy to lean towards others of a Similar understanding, nothing there changes ..if theres been any wars of late its between Literalism and spirtiualism, or mysticsism , define it as you will.

theres always a conflict of opinion where ever one posts come Forums and as our understanding grows, we kinda change some...in PART, tis what Seth was endeavouring to convey.

..Card posted this months back..in response to the MYSTERIES ,some may call mystcsism     ya  maybe surprised Just HOW MYSTIC paul was....



plz excuse the on going convo..If you wish to veiw the thread in its entirety ..ill happilly post the link

 I don't know what you are basing your information on, but here is what they have always used as a principle for studying scripture. It is well known in Jewish circles, and this particular quote is from a Messianic rabbi.

"The system of hebraic understanding used by all hebrew prophets and scholars was and remains a system that goes by the acronym of PARDES which stands for PASHAT/ Literal primary meaning, REMEZ/Hints in the text of something deeper, DRASH/ The added understanding that can only be gleaned by parables, riddles, stories etc and SOD/ Secrets and mysteries which are mysterious underlying secrets revealed in text."

 In addition to that, Paul said though I know ALL MYSTERIES...and there are other scriptures that mention mystery or mysteries. So I consider Paul to be the premiere example of a "mystical Christian", particularly since what He was taught of the mysteries was given to Him by the Spirit of the risen Lord not by the disciples who knew Him after the flesh, nor the imaginations of men, and certainly not by the devil.

Obviously there were Jews who went about establishing their own righteousness and  it only got worse after Jesus came on the scene (out of bitterness and jealousy); much of the Talmud (which is not considered scripture) is proof of this. But to call THEM "mystical" is inaccurate, just as calling the other "branch" of them not mystical is also inaccurate, as the OT came through mystical experiences with God which is to say, through the Spirit in various ways.

John the Baptist's father was a levitical priest, and he certainly had a mystical experience with the authority of the Spirit of God, as did the devout man Simeon and the woman Anna in the temple at Jesus's presentation. The OT is full of such experiences, and what you fail to realize is that mystical experiences come with understanding, in all your getting, get understanding. The experience cannot be separated from the Spirit of Truth, because they are one and the same, therefore understanding is automatically present.

Understanding here is not as the carnal mind's understanding of a provable fact, but it itself is an attribute of the Spirit of God and is instantaneously deposited into the believer, as if it was something they had always known , ie. no thinking about it was necessary or even possible prior to receiving it, because it BYPASSES THE CARNAL MIND ALTOGETHER and goes directly into the spirit, and THEN is retrievable by the carnal mind, not the other way around.

Simply put, it is the culmination of union, as between a man/Spirit and his wife/soul = "child"/new LIFE. Just as we are not aware of the exact second of conception in the natural, so too are we unaware of the twinkling of an eye split second that the mystical experience brought understanding, for as soon as it happens, it produced new life.

QuoteJust chat to the ones you do like

Right, just have my ears tickled with favoured man....

What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:50:12 PM

QuoteWhat are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

- legoman

There are some real taking of liberties of flesh, the first and second adam, carnal nature etc.

Mysticism- this morning I had the displeasure of reading a newbiew's thread to see that person getting fed a bunch of stuff about red this and red that and how Adam and Edom are the same thing and that Adam means red earth...

If you want to discuss that idea as the validity of biblical foundation then go ahead and bring it up... but don't hijack the thread and present straight forward error based information. Sure that is the persons opinion, that's fine, have the opinion, but don't teach a newbiew who starts a thread with, I new here and to UR what is ur's response to the devil.

The whole idea also was being supported by others. That mystical stuff is hogwash. Blending words and coming up with some doctrines, non-biblically relevant of even founded.

I aggree to some extent here Dallas, i have noticed a few on here are not even CHristians and are constantly saying the OT was not God breathed but written by man (or any part of the bible they dont like).

There are a few idolitors on here.  And i really dont see the point of them coming here at all, because they are corrupting the views of others with man made beliefs.

If it was my website i would do something about it, but as it stands we just have to show them theyre error and put up with it basically.

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:58:02 PM

QuoteJust chat to the ones you do like

Right, just have my ears tickled with favoured man....

I know you are mad at me Dallas
 and am so sorry if I offended you in any way  :HeartThrob: rose

The Way of Love
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Hey Taffy,

I think it is very important to have open discussion about those and all things.

My problem is when people don't make it a topic, but instead attack people and preach it against someone elses questions as opposed to discussion.

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 04, 2009, 11:58:53 PM
What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

 Dear Lee we dont want to get off topic .. :sigh:


mys⋅ti⋅cism  /ˈmɪstəˌsɪzəm/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [mis-tuh-siz-uhm]  Show IPA
Use mysticism in a Sentence
See web results for mysticism
See images of mysticism
–noun 1. the beliefs, ideas, or mode of thought of mystics.
2. a doctrine of an immediate spiritual intuition of truths believed to transcend ordinary understanding, or of a direct, intimate union of the soul with God through contemplation or ecstasy.
3. obscure thought or speculation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1730–40; mystic + -ism mys·ti·cism  (mĭs'tĭ-sĭz'əm)    
n.  

Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.

The experience of such communion as described by mystics.


A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.

Vague, groundless speculation.
Cultural Dictionary

mysticism


In religion, the attempt by an individual to achieve a personal union with God or with some other divine being or principle. Mystics generally practice daily meditation.
:HeartThrob:

  Dallas this is over the root word for Adam  is it not ??
  I am sorry to have offended you  in any ways ..
   peace rose  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:56:36 PM

QuoteDallas, noone is perfect, if someone is ganging up on you or acting like an idiot, leave them too it.  It's their choice, just as it is your choice to bother about it. 
Just chat to the ones you do like, noone is forcing you to be here, and idiots and cliques are all part of human nature, if you think there is some kind of perfect forum or group somewhere your in for much more 'dissapointments'.
You have to accept people and their opinions and indifferences, forgive them and crack on.

First off....

If people want to gang up on me that's fine, I know how to handle myself. I know when to walk and when to stand.

Quotenoone is forcing you to be here

This is the new slogan? The love of God? The love that is exactly what is being displayed here... couldn't have asked for a more accurate portrait.

The whole reason I bring this up isn't for me, but for the goodness of the whole community. I believe this site has a lot of good to offer, but when people pollute a good thing that doesn't mean pick up and move.

Your a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:01:29 AM
Hey Taffy,

I think it is very important to have open discussion about those and all things.

My problem is when people don't make it a topic, but instead attack people and preach it against someone elses questions as opposed to discussion.

I understand your point...and  assure ANY personal attacks By anyone..Including the ADMIN [ that to goes for me]on this Board will not go amiss , not by me anyway..but that said, sometimes posts are made and JUST LEFT...as Ive personally come to understand, sometimes ya just let things BE....as for PREACHING....

I dont believe this is a A BOARD for PREACHING..if folk desire to PREACH..then I strongly suggest Get your OWN blog \FORUM and preach elsewhere.


If you feel offended some ways...point it out and post the mods.... :icon_flower:

QuoteWhat is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

This is what i am talking about...

The "real meaning"... what are flowers, what are hills and what could the fork mean...

If you have any real interest say it, "Dallas, what do you mean by mysticism?"

of course unless you were just being sarcastic which would validate everything else I have been saying.

Quote
If it was my website i would do something about it, but as it stands we just have to show them theyre error and put up with it basically.

-jesushandsarekindness

Truth is this is our website... we represent a side of jesus, ask Gary what he intened about this site.

He wants to free people, and provide a place a saftey for all people to come and discuss the cross and jesus's work for all mankind. We are to stand up for that. We are members, or this, not visitors. This is our safe place, at least it used to be.

Taffy, that was the best post I have seen this year.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:10:56 AM

QuoteWhat is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

This is what i am talking about...

The "real meaning"... what are flowers, what are hills and what could the fork mean...

If you have any real interest say it, "Dallas, what do you mean by mysticism?"

of course unless you were just being sarcastic which would validate everything else I have been saying.

Quote
If it was my website i would do something about it, but as it stands we just have to show them theyre error and put up with it basically.

-jesushandsarekindness

Truth is this is our website... we represent a side of jesus, ask Gary what he intened about this site.

He wants to free people, and provide a place a saftey for all people to come and discuss the cross and jesus's work for all mankind. We are to stand up for that. We are members, or this, not visitors. This is our safe place, at least it used to be.

Well Dallas, im sorry to hear or your disapointment, i face it daily as well and it hurts worse when your with people who should know better, so i sympathize.  Im not sure where we go from here, but i agree that if people are preaching contrary to the Bible, then they should be gone.

Fair enough if someone is asking an honest question, but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

So...I dont know where we all go from here.

QuoteYour a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

That's not an issue. I am not "unhappy" I am concerned with the overall move of personality the site is moving to.

I am not emotionally reacting to anything. I am bring up concerns that have been growing for awhile, maybe you should take alook at why you feel this is an emotion man out of control.

I am a man communicating to the community.

We need to be aware of what we are doing and how it effects others.

I realize responsibility lies in the hands of us elders, not so much the new people, but we elders need to step up and prevent what is happening... not pretending that it's not happening.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:19:55 AM

QuoteYour a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

That's not an issue. I am not "unhappy" I am concerned with the overall move of personality the site is moving to.

I am not emotionally reacting to anything. I am bring up concerns that have been growing for awhile, maybe you should take alook at why you feel this is an emotion man out of control.

I am a man communicating to the community.

We need to be aware of what we are doing and how it effects others.

I realize responsibility lies in the hands of us elders, not so much the new people, but we elders need to step up and prevent what is happening... not pretending that it's not happening.

  yes in a way  that is showing love   , for everyones good
   would you  like for me to leave  this forum  now  Dallas ?

  I know I am one of your main concerns  for  Garys board

QuoteI dont know where we all go from here.

I think we need to acknowledge this and be accountable to ourselves.
The twelve appointed others for helping... but it isn't their job to babysit.

That was a chain of command, each individual is their own.

We have ability to speak.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:19:55 AM

QuoteYour a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

That's not an issue. I am not "unhappy" I am concerned with the overall move of personality the site is moving to.

I am not emotionally reacting to anything. I am bring up concerns that have been growing for awhile, maybe you should take alook at why you feel this is an emotion man out of control.

I am a man communicating to the community.

We need to be aware of what we are doing and how it effects others.

I realize responsibility lies in the hands of us elders, not so much the new people, but we elders need to step up and prevent what is happening... not pretending that it's not happening.

Well im with you in many ways Dallas.

All i know is i wouldnt go onto a muslim website and preach what i believe, so i have no idea why mysics and new agers come here...

...I think some people just see universalism as an excuse to say and do and believe what they want.  
Thats FINE if they want to believe what they want, but believeing what they believe (things not biblical) and preaching it on an exclusively Christian website just isnt right....Im sure there are many new age or mysticism websites they could join.  So again, i just dont get why they come here to pass on unbiblical views.

Quote from: rosered on November 05, 2009, 12:25:59 AM

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:19:55 AM

QuoteYour a bit quick to judge.  Chill thineself!  Noones asking you to leave.
If this place is making you so unhappy maybe you should have a break from it.

That's not an issue. I am not "unhappy" I am concerned with the overall move of personality the site is moving to.

I am not emotionally reacting to anything. I am bring up concerns that have been growing for awhile, maybe you should take alook at why you feel this is an emotion man out of control.

I am a man communicating to the community.

We need to be aware of what we are doing and how it effects others.

I realize responsibility lies in the hands of us elders, not so much the new people, but we elders need to step up and prevent what is happening... not pretending that it's not happening.

  yes in a way  that is showing love   , for everyones good
   would you  like for me to leave  this forum  now  Dallas ?

  I know I am one of your main concerns  for  Garys board

for mine No..we are each where we are at sis..and ive known you for yrs..you wouldnt hurt fly..let alone a Soul...

Hi Dallas

in reply to the op...

Folk will always have a Tendancy to lean towards others of a Similar understanding, nothing there changes ..if theres been any wars of late its between Literalism and spirtiualism, or mysticsism , define it as you will.

theres always a conflict of opinion where ever one posts come Forums and as our understanding grows, we kinda change some...in PART, tis what Seth was endeavouring to convey.

..Card posted this months back..in response to the MYSTERIES ,some may call mystcsism     ya  maybe surprised Just HOW MYSTIC paul was....



plz excuse the on going convo..If you wish to veiw the thread in its entirety ..ill happilly post the link

  I don't know what you are basing your information on, but here is what they have always used as a principle for studying scripture. It is well known in Jewish circles, and this particular quote is from a Messianic rabbi.

"The system of hebraic understanding used by all hebrew prophets and scholars was and remains a system that goes by the acronym of PARDES which stands for PASHAT/ Literal primary meaning, REMEZ/Hints in the text of something deeper, DRASH/ The added understanding that can only be gleaned by parables, riddles, stories etc and SOD/ Secrets and mysteries which are mysterious underlying secrets revealed in text."

  In addition to that, Paul said though I know ALL MYSTERIES...and there are other scriptures that mention mystery or mysteries. So I consider Paul to be the premiere example of a "mystical Christian", particularly since what He was taught of the mysteries was given to Him by the Spirit of the risen Lord not by the disciples who knew Him after the flesh, nor the imaginations of men, and certainly not by the devil.

Obviously there were Jews who went about establishing their own righteousness and  it only got worse after Jesus came on the scene (out of bitterness and jealousy); much of the Talmud (which is not considered scripture) is proof of this. But to call THEM "mystical" is inaccurate, just as calling the other "branch" of them not mystical is also inaccurate, as the OT came through mystical experiences with God which is to say, through the Spirit in various ways.

John the Baptist's father was a levitical priest, and he certainly had a mystical experience with the authority of the Spirit of God, as did the devout man Simeon and the woman Anna in the temple at Jesus's presentation. The OT is full of such experiences, and what you fail to realize is that mystical experiences come with understanding, in all your getting, get understanding. The experience cannot be separated from the Spirit of Truth, because they are one and the same, therefore understanding is automatically present.

Understanding here is not as the carnal mind's understanding of a provable fact, but it itself is an attribute of the Spirit of God and is instantaneously deposited into the believer, as if it was something they had always known , ie. no thinking about it was necessary or even possible prior to receiving it, because it BYPASSES THE CARNAL MIND ALTOGETHER and goes directly into the spirit, and THEN is retrievable by the carnal mind, not the other way around.

Simply put, it is the culmination of union, as between a man/Spirit and his wife/soul = "child"/new LIFE. Just as we are not aware of the exact second of conception in the natural, so too are we unaware of the twinkling of an eye split second that the mystical experience brought understanding, for as soon as it happens, it produced new life.

its kinda like selah..


Hi Dallas

in reply to the op...

Folk will always have a Tendancy to lean towards others of a Similar understanding, nothing there changes ..if theres been any wars of late its between Literalism and spirtiualism, or mysticsism , define it as you will.

theres always a conflict of opinion where ever one posts come Forums and as our understanding grows, we kinda change some...in PART, tis what Seth was endeavouring to convey.

..Card posted this months back..in response to the MYSTERIES ,some may call mystcsism     ya  maybe surprised Just HOW MYSTIC paul was....



plz excuse the on going convo..If you wish to veiw the thread in its entirety ..ill happilly post the link

  I don't know what you are basing your information on, but here is what they have always used as a principle for studying scripture. It is well known in Jewish circles, and this particular quote is from a Messianic rabbi.

"The system of hebraic understanding used by all hebrew prophets and scholars was and remains a system that goes by the acronym of PARDES which stands for PASHAT/ Literal primary meaning, REMEZ/Hints in the text of something deeper, DRASH/ The added understanding that can only be gleaned by parables, riddles, stories etc and SOD/ Secrets and mysteries which are mysterious underlying secrets revealed in text."

  In addition to that, Paul said though I know ALL MYSTERIES...and there are other scriptures that mention mystery or mysteries. So I consider Paul to be the premiere example of a "mystical Christian", particularly since what He was taught of the mysteries was given to Him by the Spirit of the risen Lord not by the disciples who knew Him after the flesh, nor the imaginations of men, and certainly not by the devil.

Obviously there were Jews who went about establishing their own righteousness and  it only got worse after Jesus came on the scene (out of bitterness and jealousy); much of the Talmud (which is not considered scripture) is proof of this. But to call THEM "mystical" is inaccurate, just as calling the other "branch" of them not mystical is also inaccurate, as the OT came through mystical experiences with God which is to say, through the Spirit in various ways.

John the Baptist's father was a levitical priest, and he certainly had a mystical experience with the authority of the Spirit of God, as did the devout man Simeon and the woman Anna in the temple at Jesus's presentation. The OT is full of such experiences, and what you fail to realize is that mystical experiences come with understanding, in all your getting, get understanding. The experience cannot be separated from the Spirit of Truth, because they are one and the same, therefore understanding is automatically present.

Understanding here is not as the carnal mind's understanding of a provable fact, but it itself is an attribute of the Spirit of God and is instantaneously deposited into the believer, as if it was something they had always known , ie. no thinking about it was necessary or even possible prior to receiving it, because it BYPASSES THE CARNAL MIND ALTOGETHER and goes directly into the spirit, and THEN is retrievable by the carnal mind, not the other way around.

Simply put, it is the culmination of union, as between a man/Spirit and his wife/soul = "child"/new LIFE. Just as we are not aware of the exact second of conception in the natural, so too are we unaware of the twinkling of an eye split second that the mystical experience brought understanding, for as soon as it happens, it produced new life.

Quoteyes in a way  that is showing love   , for everyones good
  would you  like for me to leave  this forum  now  Dallas ?

 I know I am one of your main concerns  for  Garys board

What makes you think that you are that important to me?

I realize you may think I am out to get you, to that end... I have never said, or even suggested as such. It's quite interesting to me though that you would just assume that I am that consumed with you.

My opinion, you are someone who shows what i am talking about. You aren't THE problem. The problem is we have a community that allows people to grow into a person who displays the problem behavior.   And like Jesus showed us, behavior can be forgiven, and the heart can change.

I'll proceed to show that like Chris's flesh,and indeed like every other revelation which God has made of Himself, the letter of Scripture is a VAIL quite as much as a revelation, hiding while it reveals, and yet revealing while it hides; presenting to the eye something very different from that which is within, even as the veil of the Tabernacle, with its inwoven cherubim, hid the glory within the veil, of which nevertheless it was the witness; and that therefore, as seen by sense, it is and must be apparently inconsistent and self-contradictory. Both these points are important; for if God's revelations of Himself are veils, even while they are also manifestations; and if therefore they are and must be open to the charge of inconsistency and contradiction; this fact will help us to understand, not only why Scripture is what it is, but also how to interpret its varied truths and doctrines and thus help us with todays thread.

God alone of all teacher has had two methods, law and gospel, flesh and Spirit,---one working where we are, the other to bring us in REST where He is,---one to be done away, the other to abide. Which at least looks like inconsistency. The reason is that God is Love, and that in no other way could He ever have reached us where we were, or brought us where He is.

Pg 9, 14 of Restitution of all things. Andrew Jukes

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:35:02 AM

Quoteyes in a way  that is showing love   , for everyones good
  would you  like for me to leave  this forum  now  Dallas ?

 I know I am one of your main concerns  for  Garys board

What makes you think that you are that important to me?

I realize you may think I am out to get you, to that end... I have never said, or even suggested as such. It's quite interesting to me though that you would just assume that I am that consumed with you.

My opinion, you are someone who shows what i am talking about. You aren't THE problem. The problem is we have a community that allows people to grow into a person who displays the problem behavior.   And like Jesus showed us, behavior can be forgiven, and the heart can change.

Lighten Up bud
cant you recognise a concerned HEART ?

I would assume that the spamming was an accident Taffy? :laughing7:

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change, yey
Na na na, na na na, na na na na oh ho

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:37:44 AM
I would assume that the spamming was an accident Taffy? :laughing7:

lol dallas... just thought it may have got missed by some ,as the posts were flying Bud...lol; :icon_flower:

QuoteLighten Up bud
cant you recognise a concerned HEART ?

Please explain to me my inappropriateness. When someone over reacts to me, I am not allowed to use the same voice to respond to them?

If you read the bottom of the post you will see I wasn't being anything but fair.

QuoteI'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change, yey
Na na na, na na na, na na na na oh ho

And don't listen to the men with the cure
If you wanna make the world a better place
Just take a look at yourself and make a...
Change :thumbsup:

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:41:41 AM

QuoteLighten Up bud
cant you recognise a concerned HEART ?

Please explain to me my inappropriateness. When someone over reacts to me, I am not allowed to use the same voice to respond to them?

If you read the bottom of the post you will see I wasn't being anything but fair.

well Dallas..ya sure wernt breaching...but amid posting as quick as you have been , Just maybe you mis interpreted Roseys Intent..thats all Bud..thats all?

but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

jesushandsarelovinghands

that above statement was totally uncalled for. UNBIBLICAL according to whom???
baptist, mormans, catholics or maybe YOU.

Sorry for the harshness but it is that type of statement that he was talking about.
I have been a member for years, and no one can say absolutely what is unbiblical.  

Can we at least all just get out in the open what we're talking about so everyone can be on the same page?  If there's one thing in life that I've found is very, very good at spreading the seeds of distrust and resentment, it's vague, almost passive-aggressive accusations that somebody is doing something but without any information to actually identify the problems so they can be understood and discussed.  Innuendo never helped anything.

Taff;

Just so you understand me a bit... I don't interpret what people say, I simply hold them accountable to the words they use.

She wanted me to acknowldge something I never said, and after a few posts of those insertion I addressed it... that's all.

Especially on a web chat system, interpretation is not a viable resource. :2c:

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:43:45 AM
And don't listen to the men with the cure

are you a man??  

are you suggesting a change  here, possibly a cure for this forum and ultimately mankind??

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:35:02 AM

Quoteyes in a way  that is showing love   , for everyones good
  would you  like for me to leave  this forum  now  Dallas ?

 I know I am one of your main concerns  for  Garys board

What makes you think that you are that important to me?

I realize you may think I am out to get you, to that end... I have never said, or even suggested as such. It's quite interesting to me though that you would just assume that I am that consumed with you.

My opinion, you are someone who shows what i am talking about. You aren't THE problem. The problem is we have a community that allows people to grow into a person who displays the problem behavior.   And like Jesus showed us, behavior can be forgiven, and the heart can change.

LOL ..  Dallas
  you are not going to make me cry .. there was a time  when you would have crushed me with your words
 they are just words ..
 you are  upset / concerned   for everyone ..     and I   did not mean to take it personally
 who knows lol Like Jesus taught in Matt 13  
 with  these  persecutions  i might just bear some fruit !!  ha ha  :HeartThrob:
 hang in there  as we all must do in all times and in all things ..

Hi Dallas, I think you should post more because as we each add our drops of water to the mix, the cup begins to overflow.

We are many voices--with some thundering and some lightning,--but all are important.

Is that too mystical?  It is not one voice coming from the throne--it is many.

God loves our individuality.  He made us this way.

Don't tell us what to be.  Show us by being it.


5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:

--Rev 1

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:49:29 AM
Taff;

Just so you understand me a bit... I don't interpret what people say, I simply hold them accountable to the words they use.

She wanted me to acknowldge something I never said, and after a few posts of those insertion I addressed it... that's all.

Especially on a web chat system, interpretation is not a viable resource. :2c:

no problem Dallas ..nothing  more NEED be said. :icon_flower:

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

jesushandsarelovinghands

that above statement was totally uncalled for. UNBIBLICAL according to whom???
baptist, mormans, catholics or maybe YOU.

Sorry for the harshness but it is that type of statement that he was talking about.
I have been a member for years, and no one can say absolutely what is unbiblical.  

Sometimes people on the forums have said VERY unbiblical things.

Someone said earlier that all scripture wasnt God breathed.
The scriptures say all scripture was God breathed.

THAT WAS an unbiblical comment and the person is constanly talking contrary to what is biblical.  

Should it be accepted on a Christian forum?  The debate goes on...

Quotebut when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

People shouldn't have to leave, just behave. All are free to express, but with respect.

QuoteCan we at least all just get out in the open what we're talking about so everyone can be on the same page?

Can validate this, this thread is probably the most open I've seen in a while. :thumbsup:

Quote from: Gab on November 05, 2009, 12:49:10 AM
Can we at least all just get out in the open what we're talking about so everyone can be on the same page?  If there's one thing in life that I've found is very, very good at spreading the seeds of distrust and resentment, it's vague, almost passive-aggressive accusations that somebody is doing something but without any information to actually identify the problems so they can be understood and discussed.  Innuendo never helped anything.

 sooooo very  true  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:33:05 PM
My point is that is what this site really tends to be.

There are many who have left for that exact reason. That they want to discuss and share but what they get is the main clique debating them or ignoring them pushing them out.

Your problem is with the debating trend on the board? Again, as long as I have been here, there have been debates. I have also seen folks not participate in a debate yet learn much from it. Others have left.

This reminds me of that old Aesops Fable: the Man the Boy and the Donkey (http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Aesop/Aesops_Fables/The_Man_the_Boy_and_the_Donkey_p1.html).

QuoteEven you can't deny the move to mysticism that has exploded on this site if, like you said, you have been coming here for years. The doctrine people are pettling isn't profitable for anything except a religous movie along side Constantine.

Again, maybe you have been coming here for much longer than me. I came here about 4 years ago and one of the big debates going on at that time were from people were teaching the Serpent Seed doctrine.

QuoteThread hi-jacking, people ignoring others, people attacking others and grouping up against them just because they have something else to input. My absolute favorite, someone coming to defend someone else because of emotional attatchment! God forbid anyone would agree with a rediculous statement and defend it simply because they are freinds with someone.

Have you ever taken your concerns up with the Moderators? That is what they are here for.

absolutely yes, because he may change to your liking God willing

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 12:53:43 AM

Quotebut when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

People shouldn't have to leave, just behave. All are free to express, but with respect.

QuoteCan we at least all just get out in the open what we're talking about so everyone can be on the same page?

Can validate this, this thread is probably the most open I've seen in a while. :thumbsup:

Agreed  Dallas  , but is the  flying flaming thread God breathed ?  :mshock:

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:37:35 PM

QuoteIf you're a Christian Universalist and you fiercely disagree with anyone that comes to these boards that believes in eternal punishment, just remember that but for the grace of God, you'd probably believe the same thing!  Our beliefs in the Universal Restoration will stand the Biblical scrutiny of anyone who comes to these boards.  If you don't know how to answer someone to their satisfaction, just back away and realize that someone else here will probably have just the answer; just the "Word in season."

- Martin

Even the Purpose for this Board is a telling statement.

WAR!!!

I remember a time when people didn't "battle" anyone. Things have changed, not for the better.

I don't really see that purpose in Martin's post. He is actually telling UR believers to be patient. Why is that not a valuable thing to say? ETers do come on these boards with objections, and some people want to provide answers. Martin is simply reminding them that patience will help much more than impatience.

I don't see where you get a warlike message from that post at all.

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:36:49 AM

Just some soft words friends

I'll proceed to show that like Chris's flesh,and indeed like every other revelation which God has made of Himself, the letter of Scripture is a VAIL quite as much as a revelation, hiding while it reveals, and yet revealing while it hides; presenting to the eye something very different from that which is within, even as the veil of the Tabernacle, with its inwoven cherubim, hid the glory within the veil, of which nevertheless it was the witness; and that therefore, as seen by sense, it is and must be apparently inconsistent and self-contradictory. Both these points are important; for if God's revelations of Himself are veils, even while they are also manifestations; and if therefore they are and must be open to the charge of inconsistency and contradiction; this fact will help us to understand, not only why Scripture is what it is, but also how to interpret its varied truths and doctrines and thus help us with todays thread.

God alone of all teacher has had two methods, law and gospel, flesh and Spirit,---one working where we are, the other to bring us in REST where He is,---one to be done away, the other to abide. Which at least looks like inconsistency. The reason is that God is Love, and that in no other way could He ever have reached us where we were, or brought us where He is.

Pg 9, 14 of Restitution of all things. Andrew Jukes

:cloud9: I like this  :thumbsup: Blessings....

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:36:49 AM

Just some soft words friends

I'll proceed to show that like Chris's flesh,and indeed like every other revelation which God has made of Himself, the letter of Scripture is a VAIL quite as much as a revelation, hiding while it reveals, and yet revealing while it hides; presenting to the eye something very different from that which is within, even as the veil of the Tabernacle, with its inwoven cherubim, hid the glory within the veil, of which nevertheless it was the witness; and that therefore, as seen by sense, it is and must be apparently inconsistent and self-contradictory. Both these points are important; for if God's revelations of Himself are veils, even while they are also manifestations; and if therefore they are and must be open to the charge of inconsistency and contradiction; this fact will help us to understand, not only why Scripture is what it is, but also how to interpret its varied truths and doctrines and thus help us with todays thread.

God alone of all teacher has had two methods, law and gospel, flesh and Spirit,---one working where we are, the other to bring us in REST where He is,---one to be done away, the other to abide. Which at least looks like inconsistency. The reason is that God is Love, and that in no other way could He ever have reached us where we were, or brought us where He is.

Pg 9, 14 of Restitution of all things. Andrew Jukes

great reading is Jukes..

Quote from: Cardinal on November 05, 2009, 12:58:56 AM

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:36:49 AM

Just some soft words friends

I'll proceed to show that like Chris's flesh,and indeed like every other revelation which God has made of Himself, the letter of Scripture is a VAIL quite as much as a revelation, hiding while it reveals, and yet revealing while it hides; presenting to the eye something very different from that which is within, even as the veil of the Tabernacle, with its inwoven cherubim, hid the glory within the veil, of which nevertheless it was the witness; and that therefore, as seen by sense, it is and must be apparently inconsistent and self-contradictory. Both these points are important; for if God's revelations of Himself are veils, even while they are also manifestations; and if therefore they are and must be open to the charge of inconsistency and contradiction; this fact will help us to understand, not only why Scripture is what it is, but also how to interpret its varied truths and doctrines and thus help us with todays thread.

God alone of all teacher has had two methods, law and gospel, flesh and Spirit,---one working where we are, the other to bring us in REST where He is,---one to be done away, the other to abide. Which at least looks like inconsistency. The reason is that God is Love, and that in no other way could He ever have reached us where we were, or brought us where He is.

Pg 9, 14 of Restitution of all things. Andrew Jukes

:cloud9: I like this  :thumbsup: Blessings....

  I did too Card!   thank Lee for sharing it with us  :HeartThrob:

  that Andrew Jukes  is a blessing ...  :icon_flower:

The reason I quoted Martin was to show that we who are supposed to be kind and gentle have to be told. The only reason we are told is because we aren't doing it.

Quotebut is the  flying flaming thread God breathed ?

What does this even mean?

I have no problem with debates, the problem falls when people preach, and dominate newbies, people with questions with their horrible behaviour. (to clarify)

I also have a problem with the hijacking.

Quote from:  dallas horrible behaviour. (to clarify)

Dallas ...could ya be a Little bit more specific..what posts..where do I find evidence of this..just incase we missed some thats all? :dontknow:

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 04, 2009, 11:58:53 PM
What is the real meaning of "mysticism" , it would be nice to know if I am to stay away from it.

Main Entry: mys·ti·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈmis-tə-ˌsi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1735
1 : the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics
2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)
3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power

Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 11:50:12 PM

QuoteWhat are the unbiblical doctrines being invented around here that are concerning you?  What "move to mysticism" specifically? - perhaps I've missed it.

- legoman

There are some real taking of liberties of flesh, the first and second adam, carnal nature etc.

Mysticism- this morning I had the displeasure of reading a newbiew's thread to see that person getting fed a bunch of stuff about red this and red that and how Adam and Edom are the same thing and that Adam means red earth...

If you want to discuss that idea as the validity of biblical foundation then go ahead and bring it up... but don't hijack the thread and present straight forward error based information. Sure that is the persons opinion, that's fine, have the opinion, but don't teach a newbiew who starts a thread with, I new here and to UR what is ur's response to the devil.

The whole idea also was being supported by others. That mystical stuff is hogwash. Blending words and coming up with some doctrines, non-biblically relevant of even founded.

:cloud9: I don't where this thread was or who posted it, but I just wanted to say pursuant to the "red" comments, they got it from a (Strong's I assume) concordance, because I have seen the listings myself in the Hebrew word meanings. Blessings....

ok off subject a lot

how do i put others quotes in blue.

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 01:09:47 AM
ok off subject a lot

how do i put others quotes in blue.

Click on the quote button above their post.  That will open a window.  Scroll to the very bottom past all the writing, and begin writing your response. Click on 'post'.

Here you go Taff. This was during this thread. This is in poor taste, thus I never responded to it.

QuoteHi Dallas, I think you should post more because as we each add our drops of water to the mix, the cup begins to overflow.

We are many voices--with some thundering and some lightning,--but all are important.

Is that too mystical?

Seth-

Perfect definition, thanks.

Quote2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)
3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or powe

Darn that sounds like God.

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 01:09:47 AM
ok off subject a lot

how do i put others quotes in blue.

I dont Know lee... :happygrin:
justclick the Quote Icon , then embrace it with the FONT[[ red A Icon] and opt for your colour

QuoteThis is in poor taste

Why is that in poor taste?  You said people were getting too mystical.  I don't even know what that means.  So I asked you--is what I am saying too mystical by your definition of too mystical.

I'm trying to figure out what your complaint is.  So if you could just answer--yes or no--it would give some baseline.

Lee;

Just copy and paste what you want to quote; then highlight it and press the quote icon above the emocons

thanks both of you

Molly read the description by Seth

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 01:14:04 AM
Here you go Taff. This was during this thread. This is in poor taste, thus I never responded to it.

QuoteHi Dallas, I think you should post more because as we each add our drops of water to the mix, the cup begins to overflow.

We are many voices--with some thundering and some lightning,--but all are important.

Is that too mystical?

Seth-

Perfect definition, thanks.

Quote2 : the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)
3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or powe

well dallas..maybe not  to your liking..BUT plz read these as guidelines to posting...http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?board=33.0

Yes, I re-read the ettique.

Poor taste, insulting is not appropriate.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 01:19:16 AM
Molly read the description by Seth

You left out the first definition which is the one I like the best.  Was there a reason for that?


1: the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics


So you are saying there is too much of this?


:2 the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)
3 a : vague speculation : a belief without sound basis b : a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power


You don't think we should rely on our 'direct knowledge of God' perceived individually by each of us?  Or on our 'subjective experience' of a personal relationship with God? 

Do you think, then that one can read the Bible and there is only one correct way to interpret it, rather than many levels of interpretation?

I don't think anyone here is indulging in vague speculation--the subject matter is too important to all of us.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 01:24:14 AM
Yes, I re-read the ettique.

Poor taste, insulting is not appropriate.

No Dallas..if this what you highlighted [ other post]was POOR taste in being Foul...then certain action would have been administered

Im afriad you may stand alone in in your assesment..again if you see posts which fall foul of these guidleines POST the Mods...

P[Z can we move on from all this ....youve aired your veiws...and thats Fine...but can we move on? :icon_flower:

QuoteYou left out the first definition which is the one I like the best.  Was there a reason for that?

No reason.

Taff-

If you don't want to continue talking about this then stop. I opened this thread to voice my concearn. People can respond and i can rspond to them.

This is what this thread was for. If you want to talk about something else there are lots of threads.

This is a thread chase with a pattern,
I don't believe anyone should be kicked out or shunned, even the hostel
if you care to read all of jesushandsarelovinghands then I Believe in my opinion there is some hidden anger or aggression towards certain people or kinds of people.

Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on November 05, 2009, 12:53:24 AM

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

jesushandsarelovinghands

that above statement was totally uncalled for. UNBIBLICAL according to whom???
baptist, mormans, catholics or maybe YOU.

Sorry for the harshness but it is that type of statement that he was talking about.
I have been a member for years, and no one can say absolutely what is unbiblical.  

Sometimes people on the forums have said VERY unbiblical things.

Someone said earlier that all scripture wasnt God breathed.
The scriptures say all scripture was God breathed.

THAT WAS an unbiblical comment and the person is constanly talking contrary to what is biblical.  

Should it be accepted on a Christian forum?  The debate goes on...

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 01:38:53 AM
This is a thread chase with a pattern,
I don't believe anyone should be kicked out or shunned, even the hostel
if you care to read all of jesushandsarelovinghands then I Believe in my opinion there is some hidden anger or aggression towards certain people or kinds of people.

Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on November 05, 2009, 12:53:24 AM

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

jesushandsarelovinghands

that above statement was totally uncalled for. UNBIBLICAL according to whom???
baptist, mormans, catholics or maybe YOU.

Sorry for the harshness but it is that type of statement that he was talking about.
I have been a member for years, and no one can say absolutely what is unbiblical.  

Sometimes people on the forums have said VERY unbiblical things.

Someone said earlier that all scripture wasnt God breathed.
The scriptures say all scripture was God breathed.

THAT WAS an unbiblical comment and the person is constanly talking contrary to what is biblical.  

Should it be accepted on a Christian forum?  The debate goes on...

You have a precious heart , you know that Lee !
   :HeartThrob:  thank you stating that ..

   

I am trying to use the blue quote thing "new" and I lost 50% of the other quotes I had. Will do better next time

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 01:38:53 AM
This is a thread chase with a pattern,
I don't believe anyone should be kicked out or shunned, even the hostel
if you care to read all of jesushandsarelovinghands then I Believe in my opinion there is some hidden anger or aggression towards certain people or kinds of people.

Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on November 05, 2009, 12:53:24 AM

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

jesushandsarelovinghands

that above statement was totally uncalled for. UNBIBLICAL according to whom???
baptist, mormans, catholics or maybe YOU.

Sorry for the harshness but it is that type of statement that he was talking about.
I have been a member for years, and no one can say absolutely what is unbiblical.  

Sometimes people on the forums have said VERY unbiblical things.

Someone said earlier that all scripture wasnt God breathed.
The scriptures say all scripture was God breathed.

THAT WAS an unbiblical comment and the person is constanly talking contrary to what is biblical.  

Should it be accepted on a Christian forum?  The debate goes on...

If you are happy that people can come onto the forums and spout unsound and unbiblical spoutings on here, such as -
"The bible is not God breathed", (as one person did) then fine...
...Stand up for them and not for your faith.

To me this is a Christian message board and new agers and mysticists with their idol worship are not welcome.

An idol is making a God to suit yourself, and many on here do just that.

It took seventy years in the Golus (Exile) to teach Jewish people that God would not tolerate idols.

1 John 5
.....And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

If your happy with idol worship in the forums, then fine, but let me have my 'sound biblical opinion' and you have your OWN opinion.

It was false doctrines, idol worship, bible misunderstandings and people making up a God to suit themselves etc that lead the world to believe that God is a maniac that burns people in a (made up) place called hell forever, and is to be avoided at all costs not just in my opinion but in Gods as well, according to Scripture.

So i hope maybe we can move on now from the new age mystic crap and concentrate on why were here and the reason the website is here in the first place...To better understand GODS word and not brainwash people with their idols.

Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on November 05, 2009, 01:53:17 AM

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 01:38:53 AM
This is a thread chase with a pattern,
I don't believe anyone should be kicked out or shunned, even the hostel
if you care to read all of jesushandsarelovinghands then I Believe in my opinion there is some hidden anger or aggression towards certain people or kinds of people.

Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on November 05, 2009, 12:53:24 AM

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 05, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
but when someone is passing on unbiblical views of any kind, i think they really should leave.  We are to accept all people and we do, but this is either a Biblical website or its not.

Just because we believe in universalism for all people, doesnt give us a ticket to preach what is contrary to the Bible.

jesushandsarelovinghands

that above statement was totally uncalled for. UNBIBLICAL according to whom???
baptist, mormans, catholics or maybe YOU.

Sorry for the harshness but it is that type of statement that he was talking about.
I have been a member for years, and no one can say absolutely what is unbiblical.  

Sometimes people on the forums have said VERY unbiblical things.

Someone said earlier that all scripture wasnt God breathed.
The scriptures say all scripture was God breathed.

THAT WAS an unbiblical comment and the person is constanly talking contrary to what is biblical.  

Should it be accepted on a Christian forum?  The debate goes on...

If you are happy that people can come onto the forums and spout unsound and unbiblical spoutings on here, such as -
"The bible is not God breathed", (as one person did) then fine...
...Stand up for them and not for your faith.

To me this is a Christian message board and new agers and mysticists with their idol worship are not welcome.

An idol is making a God to suit yourself, and many on here do just that.

It took seventy years in the Golus (Exile) to teach Jewish people that God would not tolerate idols.

1 John 5
.....And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

If your happy with idol worship in the forums, then fine, but let me have my 'sound biblical opinion' and you have your OWN opinion.

[/color]

You should read this 10 times and you may see were you are slamming me and others that want to believe, I had a friend do this a while back called lee/cog  you really do seem to have his same attitude towards you fellow man or are nonbelievers of no relation to you? They are my brother too. Even all those people in the hell of KJV AND OTHERS . We all are family.

« Reply #32 on: Today at 05:36:49 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify
Just some soft words friends
I'll proceed to show that like Chris's flesh,and indeed like every other revelation which God has made of Himself, the letter of Scripture is a VAIL quite as much as a revelation, hiding while it reveals, and yet revealing while it hides; presenting to the eye something very different from that which is within, even as the veil of the Tabernacle, with its inwoven cherubim, hid the glory within the veil, of which nevertheless it was the witness; and that therefore, as seen by sense, it is and must be apparently inconsistent and self-contradictory. Both these points are important; for if God's revelations of Himself are veils, even while they are also manifestations; and if therefore they are and must be open to the charge of inconsistency and contradiction; this fact will help us to understand, not only why Scripture is what it is, but also how to interpret its varied truths and doctrines and thus help us with todays thread.

God alone of all teacher has had two methods, law and gospel, flesh and Spirit,---one working where we are, the other to bring us in REST where He is,---one to be done away, the other to abide. Which at least looks like inconsistency. The reason is that God is Love, and that in no other way could He ever have reached us where we were, or brought us where He is.

Pg 9, 14 of Restitution of all things. Andrew Jukes



you should read the above and see that we all learn at differant times and seasons, you should not condemn before they have a chance to be revealed to by a supernatural power.

Quote from: Dallas on November 05, 2009, 01:33:57 AM

QuoteYou left out the first definition which is the one I like the best.  Was there a reason for that?

No reason.

Taff-

If you don't want to continue talking about this then stop. I opened this thread to voice my concearn. People can respond and i can rspond to them.

This is what this thread was for. If you want to talk about something else there are lots of threads.

Ill Talk where I wish Dallas Ty....##and right now its here...


But while the thrashing of so called Mystiscism. conitnues..and if anyone had the time to at least READ a triple posting...then this thread is nearly due to be closed..or shall we all start thrashing that which is literal TOO.....and call it crap...in faCT this THREAD is closed from NOW...I suggest Everyone take time out and if your hearts desire is to thrash whatever..do it privately...NO one here is throwing the Baby out the water..

I fully support, and so does Gary, the closing of this thread.  If I remember correctly, Gary loves Origen about as much as I do.  And as to the complaints about inappropriate useage of moderator power or preaching, the reason for moderators is to keep the peace, and all preaching is, is an empassioned declaration of what one holds to as being the truth of Christ's Gospel.  The only problems I've ever seen around here have been when people have tried to push the Sovereignty message to the exclusion of anyone being able to go to the toilet of their own free will, when the Bible indicates we're judged for our deeds rather than for God's, and each one receives of the hand of God according to what one has sown.  There's zero question about a percentage of that coming from God, the Old Testament and the New talking about God allowing strong dellusions to come, the exact wording of a KJV being that He'd send lying spirits and Biblically with reviewing Ezekiel and other portions of the Bible is that it winds up being over coveteousness or some area of double mindedness that He's seeking to purge with a graphic display of "is this what you really want, or are you contending for the faith I've given you and not losing your inheritance from Me?" 

The other problem besides an overly pushy Sovereignty perspective -- and I have no problems with God's Sovereignty and I've learned quite a bit about it this year with my own White Throne Judgment and entering into a New Earth of sorts of my own -- the other problem is with FULL preterism that says that the Bible is absolutely nothing but a history book rather than an ongoing legacy of the Last Adam until the whole world is filled with His glory.  I can accept the full preterism view that you hold to, Dallas, that's 100% a type of mysticism, but not to the exclusion of my own experience with God that involves ongoing prophetic fulfillments, particularly with what's been restored to me this year that's dearer to me than my own life, and not to the exclusion of other areas of prophecy that I personally see both from the Written Word and with my own two eyes are continually being fulfilled to the glory of His Name.

You cannot hold to FULL preterism without FULL mysticism OR believing extra biblical sources take precidence over the ongoing unfolding revelation of Jesus Christ through the Written Word and the Holy Spirit.  Full preterism is very beautiful as an artistic system of Biblical mysticism, but not as a dogma against the current work of Holy Spirit and what must yet come to pass since EVERY SINGLE PROMISE of both destruction and restoration must be fulfilled both in it's allegories (such as is taught by Messianic Christians, Origenists, partial and full preterists, etc.) and to the exact detail of the letter of Scripture -- which again, to believe the exact letter won't be fulfilled, you've got to appeal to extra biblical textual criticisms that have zero baring on the precise wording of Scripture itself with trying to say that that doesn't really mean that or there's some textual variation that has never been believed by the authority of the Church, whether Catholic, Protestant, Charismatic, or Independent.

And yes, I agree that the majority are seldom right about everything, but it's wrong to say that they are wrong about absolutely everything.

And there's a third area where I've detected ongoing perpetual friction that's not edifying besides a hyper Calvinistic UR and FULL preterism trying to insist it's the only way of understanding Scripture, and that's the dispensational fundamentalist, who like the full preterist frequently balks at the idea of any ongoing work of Holy Spirit in the Church and ongoing fulfillments of Scripture that aren't eschatological but simply those "ages to come during which He'd show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us in Christ Jesus" and those ages are the ages that we're in that St. Paul spoke of, and I realize that the full preterist and the Scofield type of Dispensational Premillenialist usually cannot embrace that in the least.

But Gary Amirault is as Charismatic as many others around here and forever on this ministry's discussion boards the move of the Holy Spirit will continue to be encouraged and warmly embraced with a Berean attitude of searching the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone DAILY as to whether or not these things are true.  Gary's only complaints is that we've not seen both enough of an Evangelistic thrust on the part of UR folks and that we've NOT REALLY SEEN ENOUGH of a prayer life on the part of the vast majority of UR folks to see Holy Spirit in operation in confirmation of the victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ.  Gary WANTS the mysticism that you're complaining about, as long as the saints are edified, the strife is avoided at all costs, Holy Spirit is moving, Scripture is honored, and babes in Christ are being birthed both into Christ and into UR ongoingly.

There was much on these boards that I likewise didn't agree with since I came to these boards nearly 10yrs ago, but I had sense enough to simply share what I personally knew, just bring it to the table, let the chips fall where they would, and not try to get into elaborate critiques of everybody else's methods of interpreting Scripture since the Messianic views of Scripture and every other view of Scripture represented on these boards is not unique to UR circles.  I simply resolved with myself and the sincerity and integrity of my heart before God that if something had validity that I didn't understand, my ongoing meditations in the Scripture would eventually uncover it to my own satisfaction completely -- otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it in the least and would keep every care rolled over on God.

What's unique is that we find such loving harmony on the Tentmaker boards and people of SUCH DIVERSITY that are really praying for one another and pulling for one another to make it and to be encouraged in Him and strengthened in their walk with Him.  If it came to it, to preserve the union and blessing of God that's been growing on these boards, then the really strict dispensational fundamentalism (an example being the eschatology of the Concordant Publishing Concern, Martin Zender, and the like), the hyper Sovereignty perspective, and FULL preterism would have been completely banned by me a year and a half ago.  But I've treaded very softly on legislating the beliefs of the boards and prayerfully cultivating a more inviting atmosphere for everyone that'll discuss the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone.

Now that does include previous fulfillments, ongoing fulfillments, futurist perspectives about various matters, the mysticism of the letter of the law such as would be presented by FULL preterists of the variety that try to keep from using extra biblical sources for their beliefs, the Messianics, etc.  I've never had a problem with any of it, unless it went into being abusive and overly chastising of others or unwelcoming of my own views [and most definitely those of others] for consideration as to whether or not the whole of the Scriptures and the witness of Holy Spirit agreed.  Some areas of beliefs can be held to with such rigidity that a 'tude can be perceived that's not really there on the part of diversity from one's own views just simply BECAUSE of the clash with one's own beliefs. 

I mean, when you've got preterists of the partial variety and full variety on the same boards with futurists, Messianics, Word of Faith folks like myself, cessationists who somehow still believe pastors, evangelists, and teachers are relevant, total [supposedly] "consistent" cessationists on the boards, who believe in none of the ministry gifts being ongoing, with folks that believe in ongoing Ephesians 4 five fold ministry of Apostles, Prophets, etc. with the accompanying authority level and signs following, etc., then it's impossible for there not to be the occasional difference of opinion where you've simply got to present your best Biblical case on the matter and move on without "trying to keep it real" in a way that promotes strife, hostility, intolerance, etc.  The Bible says to let all things be done for edification.  Obviously every perspective under the sun can't cohabit in an edifying way for everyone, but a loving, encouraging, enthusiastic, and prayerful tone is always edifying.  So, that's what I always strive for, and what I believe everyone around here whose heart is right is reaching for in themselves in their expectations of themselves, etc.

In closing, my deepest apologies again to anyone whom I've ever offended when I use all caps from time to time 'cause it's not motivated by flaming, but is a combination of the preach hitting me or a "if you don't get anything else I'm saying PLEASE get this" kind of attitude on what I'm saying.  It's emphasis and excitement on my part about what I'm saying, but NEVER EVER intended in a demeaning way.  Often my posts here find extra usage either on my own website or in emails I'll send out occasionally to various folks in full time ministry and I'll often just leave it with the caps in the way that it came out.  Perhaps for me that would best be replaced by heavy usage of exclamation marks, but then I'll probably take heat for flaming with that too on some particular aspect where I feel Holy Spirit is saying something that's not the current understanding of the person taking offense, so it's never a 100% winning situation in a context where you're dealing with a platform of communication that's 100% written if you ever feel like some of your comments are more important than others in the same post. 

I've thought through color useage and emoticon useage, but with remembering different examples of that over the years, I've never found rainbow posts to draw my attention in any special way to some comments more than others as either foundational, extra explanation of what's being said and why, or whatever.  There's only so much you can do on a discussion board unless you point folks to web links for definitions and further Biblically relevant explanations of such and such, but it's a mess to try to include a different link at the end of every post and if anyone was underwhelmed by a particular link, perhaps the last time they visit links someone posts, so there's not much winning on the part of any perspective with that one.

All any of us can do is pray and believe God according to the promises of the Scriptures for His ongoing intervention, for one's own self control rather than worrying about that of others, and for Him to give Words that wind up being pivotal expressions that are timely to individuals about such and such a perspective, and then just roll the care of the rest over on Him, whether you were as offensive as He'd of been in His saying the same things, like those who believe His Words won't die, or whatever.  Love, truth, fellowship, edification, prayer, and preservation of the unity at all costs 'cept to the love, the truth, prayer, and the edification necessary to keep it as something worthwhile and always self replicating with new babies in Christ all of the time as the nations are discipled are paramount.  With the best of intentions, some are going to retreat into the darkness regardless and all you can do is move on with your own meekness and lowliness of heart offering rest to the souls of others.