Mk 9.43

[claypot]

I might also add that Jesus talked about if you are angry with someone it is like murder. I see being angry as the worm while murder is the serpent. Things grow.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Is that worm somehow (word origin perhaps) linked to the serpent?
Can't  find any link myself, but perhaps someone else did/can?

WW, I am fully convinced that the worm if left to grow becomes the serpent, bigtime!

That's not really proof claypot  :laughing7:

Also I might ask "What is proof?"

For example a verse that states that worms can grow huge as a snake.
I mean if there is no proven link besides our  thought that a worm is a tiny snake then all discussions that follow that assumption never can be more than guesswork. => weakest link...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Snakes don't eat dead flesh, either, as worms do. My  :2c: Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

I might also add that Jesus talked about if you are angry with someone it is like murder. I see being angry as the worm while murder is the serpent. Things grow.

cp

So if worm and serpent stand for gowth  of sin does that tell us there was little sin among the Jews?
Perhaps to linear thinking but that is what I conclude from it sofar. And it somehow doesn't feel right.

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Snakes don't eat dead flesh, either, as worms do. My  :2c: Blessings....

True. But dead flesh is turning to dust. And snakes/serpents eat dust...

Genesis 3:14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Plus someone living in sin has a dead spirit. A spirit turned to dust. And satan is feeding on that dust (dust=sin)

[claypot]

I do hear ya and you too Card and you have given me pause to think that maybe a worm is just a worm but the message of Jesus' words still seem to imply that a worm is as nasty as a serpent.

Do you see a worm as representing anything good?

I don't know about growth of sin as you say. Sin is sin. Now as to the form of sin, I suppose that can change.

cp

[claypot]

:cloud9: Snakes don't eat dead flesh, either, as worms do. My  :2c: Blessings....

True. But dead flesh is turning to dust. And snakes/serpents eat dust...

Genesis 3:14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Plus someone living in sin has a dead spirit. A spirit turned to dust. And satan is feeding on that dust (dust=sin)

That's good WW.

cp

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Snakes don't eat dead flesh, either, as worms do. My  :2c: Blessings....

Continuing from the above.

Literal worms feed on literal dead meat.
Spiritual worms feed on spiritual dead meat.
Satan=serpent=snake=spiritual worm that feeds on sin/dust


Just brainstorming here...... :laughing7:

[sparrow]

I think that if something helps you to understand God's plan, or the reason why we're here, or things that can help you on your path in pushing out darkness with light or what have you... I think that's kind of the main thing that matters. God can use anything and will use anything to help His children. The worm/serpent thing is an excellent illustration in my eyes.  :happy3: I was greatly blessed by it.  :HeartThrob:

:icon_flower: Ok, just had to say that.

carry on.  :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Maybe one deals with the things of flesh and the other deals with the things of spirits?  :dontknow: Just throwing things out there........dead, wormy, snakey things, but things, LOL...... :laughing7:

[claypot]

I agree Sparrow. I do think WW is on to something though.

Even though sin is sin, it does grow or change or whatever, into more and more darkness IF left unchecked. It is a fire in and of itself that will not be quenched. It is a worm that will not die if constantly fueled but withdraw the fuel and die it will IMO.

If your hand offend you cut it off because it is sheer hell to live with an offending hand and if left on it will infect the whole body. It will become an unquenchable fire.

cp

[claypot]

:cloud9: Maybe one deals with the things of flesh and the other deals with the things of spirits?  :dontknow: Just throwing things out there........dead, wormy, snakey things, but things, LOL...... :laughing7:

Card, you always seem to get to the heart of the matter. I see what you are suggesting. Much to ponder. This worm (their worm) message that Jesus uttered really got hold of me. I've been thinking about it almost exclusively for about 4 or 5 days.

Thanks for your input.

cp

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Maybe one deals with the things of flesh and the other deals with the things of spirits?  :dontknow: Just throwing things out there........dead, wormy, snakey things, but things, LOL...... :laughing7:

The question is are those wormy things connected?

(http://www.blogcdn.com/xbox.joystiq.com/media/2009/05/worms-armageddonouttahere.jpg)

[claypot]

:cloud9: Maybe one deals with the things of flesh and the other deals with the things of spirits?  :dontknow: Just throwing things out there........dead, wormy, snakey things, but things, LOL...... :laughing7:

The question is are those wormy things connected?

(http://www.blogcdn.com/xbox.joystiq.com/media/2009/05/worms-armageddonouttahere.jpg)

As connected as flesh and spirit are I suppose. In one sense they are connected totally to make us, us but in another sense they are as separate as separate can be, don't you think?

cp

[WhiteWings]

I would say: maybe
I'm looking for a scriptual connection.

[claypot]

You must go to the Spirit for that but I'm just playin with ya a bit. Let me think.

WW, are you asking how the spirit and flesh are connected? I think I'm kind of off track here.

I look at us humans and that is 'scripture' enough for me to know that the spirit and flesh are connected in ways I'll never understand and they are very disconnected in ways I may never understand fully.

I am intrigued by your thought process so could you please stay patient with me and ask your question again but be a bit more specific?

cp

[claypot]

Fear not, thou  worm   Jacob , [and] ye men of Israel....is41.14

As it is written,  Jacob  have I loved, but  Esau  have I hated.rom9.13

WW, I really see Jacob as representing all that God loves, the divine, the spiritual. Yet God calls Jacob a worm.

6  But I [am] a  worm , and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.ps22.6 (This is not Jacob but it is just for the point I am making.)

I don't see anything really good about the worm and that makes me think it represents the flesh and carnality.

These verses show me a connection between my physical, natural make-up and my spiritual.

cp

[WhiteWings]

You must go to the Spirit for that but I'm just playin with ya a bit.

Mine is a bit hard of hearing I think :winkgrin:

Let me think.

Don't hurt yourself! :laughing7:

WW, are you asking how the spirit and flesh are connected? I think I'm kind of off track here.

I am intrigued by your thought process so could you please stay patient with me and ask your question again but be a bit more specific?

I'm looking for a worm-serpent connection.
A verse that states there is a connection. Perhaps etymology of snake/worm words. Just something.

Both things being long isn't real proof you know.
Satan and HS are both spirits. But that doesn't mean one of them is a more mature form of the other.

Many say that the Gehanna story is just about the literal slaughter among jews.
Personally I think it is also a parable. (Wasn't everything Jesus said in public a parable?)
That would mean the whole wormy story has spiritual side too.
For ETs it's being eaten alive by worms in hell.
For me it is  :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

[claypot]

Whoa, now you got my imagination going, WW!!!

The HS and satan are spirits. Could satan be the HS without God? In other words, what or who is satan? Of course there are threads galore about that. I think satan is a spirit, an essence. IMO 'he' is the carnal mindset, the mind that is set against God. The HS is a spirit that is an essence totally in alignment with God. Like you say, both spirits. Is one a 'picture' of the spiritual life apart from God and the other is a 'picture' of the spiritual life with God?

A worm/serpent connection you are looking for. A Scripture that says "The worm and the serpent are the same thing, one is just more mature than the other." 2nd Hesitations 9:23

May I respectfully ask why you want a verse on this? What's going on in that blessedly twisted mind of yours!!!! I genuinely curious!

cp

[WhiteWings]

Could satan be the HS without God?

That's kinda dangerous ground to thread on....
Darkness is the absense of light. Satan is the prince of darkness. But saying anything can get as good as the HS....

May I respectfully ask why you want a verse on this? What's going on in that blessedly twisted mind of yours!!!! I genuinely curious

It's much more boring as you are hoping for I guess.
Suppose I post a thread stating that only people born in the summer goto hell. The rest is saved.
Would you like some verses as proof of will you accept that summer is hot so it means they goto hell.
I bet you will go for the verse option.
Same on the worm and snake connection. They are both long is not a real connection. A garden hose is also long. Does that mean it's the home of satan? :laughing7:
Right now we have  anice theory. But it can only become a fact if it can be proved scriputally.
Agreed there is some logic in the assumption but a bit to weak imo.

[WhiteWings]

May I respectfully ask why you want a verse on this?

If I have a verse on that the next steps could be something like:
serpent=satan
man=dust=sin
serpent easts dust.
Flesh=sin
worm eats flesh/sin
Spirit is inside the flesh.
The worm and fire consume the flesh and set the spirit free.
That line of thought/brainstorming.

I also remember a thread that states that the dragon of Revelation is a fullgrown serpent from Genesis.
If that's true satan does grow. Must be that fattening dust diet :laughing7:
Then teh worm could fit in. But because teh worm is smaller than the snake I would expect it before the snake.
So no match :dontknow:

[Gab]

I'm looking for a worm-serpent connection.
A verse that states there is a connection. Perhaps etymology of snake/worm words. Just something.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=worm&searchmode=none

worm
O.E. wurm, variant of wyrm "serpent, dragon,"

A word of caution, though: none of the original languages of the Bible are Germanic languages, and as far as I can tell, the Greek words for "worm" (skolex) and "serpent" (drakon) are unrelated.  And I don't think it'd be very easy to claim that the Bible was written so that those speaking English could get more out of it than those speaking Greek. So this is probably, unfortunately, just a complete coincidence.