The Sea of Glass

[Tim B]

And so the writer of the Apocalypse points to the Temple lava - a large bronze basin containing water - and calls it the Lake of Fire. What this picture is supposed to portray is the Refiner's Fire, complete with the cauldron of alloyed mineral and its impurities, as Yahweh the Refiner begins His work. John, who we have every good reason to believe was a Priest and therefore Levite, was intimately familiar with all the rites and ceremonies of the Temple in Jerusalem. Polycrates, a later Bishop of Ephesus, where John also ministered, testified:

"For great luminaries sleep in Asia, and they will rise again at the last day of the advent of the Master ... And there is also John, who leaned on the Master's breast, who was a priest wearing the mitre, and martyr and teacher, and he sleeps at Ephesus" (Eccl.Hist., III, xxxi).
This word 'mitre', which might give the false impression of a Roman Catholic bishop's hat, is in fact the petalon which is used in the Septuagint of the Cohen Gadol's or High Priest's diadem. When Eusebius quotes Polycrates he uses the word 'breastplate' for petalon which of course contained precious stones, one for each of the twelve tribes of Israel. What's clear is that John was viewed as a kind of 'High Priest' in Ephesus in subsequent generations since he was the Presiding Patriarch and senior apostle.

Both the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple of Solomon used water in their lavers, rather than molten gold. Yet the water was meant to symbolise molten gold. Gold, scripturally, is always the divine nature, and so the lava itself would portray Yahweh's refining process. In our fleshy state, we could not survive a baptism of fiery gold, and so water baptism had to become the substitute and type of the true baptism of fire.

Now in the days of Solomon's Temple, the lava was called the "molten sea" (1 Ki.7:23). Did you know that when gold is refined to its absolutely pure state, that molten gold is completely transparent? It's as clear as crystal! So if Solomon had filled the Temple's lava or 'molten sea' with pure gold and melted it, it would have looked like "a sea of glass like crystal" (Rev.4:6), just like John described it in his vision! And do you remember how John described it later on in Revelation 15:2?

"I saw in heaven another great and marvellous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues - last, because with them Yahweh's wrath is completed. And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name. They held harps given them by Elohim and sang the song of Moses the servant of Elohim and the song of the Lamb" (Rev.15:1-3, NIV).
What John saw in heaven was the lava, the lake of fire, as pictured in the Tabernacle and the Temple of Solomon.. The lava was used to wash or baptise in order to be cleansed, or purified ceremonially. The purpose of the Torah or Law, as we have seen, was to teach righteousness to the inhabitants of the earth. The purpose of fire is to purify. So it really doesn't strain our imagination too much to consider both the lava and the lake of fire to be for the purpose of divine purification, rather than a place where men and women are tortured forever.

We are forced to the inevitable conclusion in simply letting scripture explain itself, that the Lake of Fire is the final place where Yahweh, the Great Refiner, sits to purify the hearts of men and women and so prepare them to dwell in the new heaven (2 Pet.3:13; Rev.21:1) when this current world and heaven all pass away.

Excerpt from:
http://www.nccg.org/mlt/sermons/3_065.html

This article, obviously (lol), suggests that the Lake of Fire is represented as corresponding to the Temple Lava which was used to purify. I've also heard, although I can't remember if it was in this article, that the book of Revelation/Apocalypse/Unveiling (all the same book) is based off that of the Jewish Temple/Solomon's Temple. (Hence why they mention John in part of this article as being familiar with priestly rituals.)

Does anybody else know anything about this idea that the book of Revelation is based off of the Jewish Temple/Solomon's Temple?

And, also, whaddya think of the excerpt of the article?

God is with you!  :bigGrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think it's singularly one of the best articles I've ever read! This just made so many things bounce around in me, but it definitely explained my dream/vision I had some years ago, of suddenly waking and though not seeing my physical body, but being AWARE that I was surrounded in lava. When I asked Him what this was, He told me it was His love, ie. the overflowing scourge that heals/makes whole whatever it touches. This just tied all this in together for me, including the lake of fire. Thanks! Blessings....

[Tim B]

I'm glad you liked it! :)

The only problem I have with it, in retrospect, is how do these people know that the "sea of glass" is the same as the lake of fire? I can't seem to see understand. I mean, it's MIXED with fire, but does that make it the lake of fire?

I just don't want to make assumptions. xD

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The kicker for me was reading about the gold being transparent. I already knew gold in scripture speaks of the higher nature of God, and God is a consuming fire, so not a long jump to see the sea as being the fire. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Yes. When you can see yourself in the molten reflection — it is done.

[aspiring son]

Great article.

The refiners fire purified seven times is absolutely transparent; yet mingled with fire.

This is the heart of the gospel. Through the dealings we face, through joy and tears, we find in the end we are drawn back into our Father who has awakened us by his spirit; judged us and tried us until there is nothing left but the ecstasy of no sin; flesh. Just the absolute makeup of him in all his glory.

Beautifully written.

[Taffy]

edifying post Tim :icon_flower:

[chuckt]

Yes. When you can see yourself in the molten reflection — it is done.

your reflection or the reflection of HIM???

chuckt.


also.

sand + fire = glass.

great website, its a keeper....


later.....

[Nathan]

I'm just heading out the door for today, but I'll take a closer look at the original post tomorrow, but I sense an overall questioning and I'd like to throw this out to you to weigh. 

Moses was instructed specifically to pay close attention to detail when masterminding the building of the tabernacle because it was a type and shadow of Christ.  Everything about the tabernacle resembled Jesus nature and purpose.  Even the positioning of the tribes outside the tabernacle had spiritual implications.  The tribe of Judah was posted at the only entrance leading into the temple.  There is only one way to the Father.  Jesus is the gate, the gate is always to face the east.  East speaks of the rising of the sun.  Judah literally means praise . . .to enter into the tabernacle, you must come through praise.

So . . . .IF the tabernacle was a type and shadow of Christ . .then John comes along and receives a REVELATION of Jesus Christ, is it then any wonder that in the revelation, you see different properties of the tabernacle throughout the revelation?  For me, they are intertwined.  And even though I have not fully read this whole thread, I will tell you that the way I came into UR was through the understanding that the lake of fire is the substance, the shadow is the laver.  Or, in Solomon's temple, it's called simply, the sea.

It's purpose is to cleanse the sacrificial blood from the priests in preparation of their entrance into the temple.  The lake of fire is God who is the all mighty consuming fire, and the purpose of him is to purge the hell out of me (hell is thrown into the lake of fire) that I become cleansed through him from my carnality, that I may become one with him, and enter into him as he is the temple of temples.  In him I live, and move, and have my "being". 

So yeah, I'd have to say they're related.

[rosered]

 
  good stuff Tim , and all
  I thought of another  article I have read called "the  crystal sea"  from Dayspring on high , it really good too 
  hope this link works for ya all ... http://www.gem-international.org/dayspring/default.htm

  Rev 4:6 And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind. 

  :HeartThrob:rose

[SQ]

Thanks for those links rosered, is definitely interesting.
I read one so far men walking as trees, this is something I have never heard of before.
I have always wondered what the man meant when he said I see men walking as trees.
I doubt anyone has heard this in church, or biology in school.

[rosered]

Thanks for those links rosered, is definitely interesting.
I read one so far men walking as trees, this is something I have never heard of before.
I have always wondered what the man meant when he said I see men walking as trees.
I doubt anyone has heard this in church, or biology in school.

  Hi sis SQ , Yeppers , me too  have read men as trees walking  , I have read most  everything on this site ...
  you are right about that  ! never heard   anything   like it  in church  or biology LOL.........     :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

That article on men as trees is the most indepth explanation I've ever seen.  I also believe that Jesus healed that blind guy the way he did on purpose, but for most of my years, I never understood the "why" part.  Until I finally saw that it was to show that Jesus was healing his spiritual condition first, then his outward condition followed. 

But I've never seen the scientific relationship until this article makes it painfully clear just how relevant and reactive our natural bodies really are to spiritual principles. 

[rosered]

That article on men as trees is the most indepth explanation I've ever seen.  I also believe that Jesus healed that blind guy the way he did on purpose, but for most of my years, I never understood the "why" part.  Until I finally saw that it was to show that Jesus was healing his spiritual condition first, then his outward condition followed. 

But I've never seen the scientific relationship until this article makes it painfully clear just how relevant and reactive our natural bodies really are to spiritual principles. 

  Hi Nate ,
  you are right !!!, I too  believe that the spiritual man/inner man  was  healed by Jesus   seeing correctly a sort of discerning spirit given him by the Lord   :thumbsup:   ¶ And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 


Mar 8:23   And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 
Mar 8:24   And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 


Mar 8:25   After that he put [his] hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. 

  I always  wondered if the trees/men were either or  of the two trees

knowledge of good and evil
and  or  tree of life 
  the oak tree in the Old testament compares also to men 

  lots to consider  and the  make up of the tree and the man are uncanny 

   did you read the crystal sea yet bro ?
its a good read to me also but not as clear as the  trees/men as men/trees  walking  :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

No, but I'll look into it now . . . :wink2:

That verse in Mark 8:25 speaking of how Jesus made this blind guy "look up".  Isn't it interesting that in our natural thinking . . .seeing men as trees walking is really saying you are still vision impaired.  But spiritually, it was just the opposite.  Our natural logic is always the opposite from what spiritual truth really is saying.

But once Jesus got him to "look up".  Someone asked on one of these threads about why was Jesus in the ground for three days . . .there is nothing Jesus did that was not done with purpose, on purpose.  Three is the number of resurrection.  That's who Jesus "was".  He "was" (and is, and will always be) THE resurrection.  This blind guy was restored once he "looked up".  He received his resurrection.  With the resurrection, clarity came to his understanding.

I would say "if" these trees he saw was to indicate one of the two trees of the garden, it would have to be the tree of knowledge.  Had it have been the tree of life, he would have seen immediately.  But the fact that clarity didn't come until after resurrection, I would then believe that what he was "seeing" was the tree of life, which is Jesus himself, "through" the tree of knowledge.  But once the tree of knowledge entered into the resurrection experience, restoration came with clarity and pronouncment. 

[rosered]

No, but I'll look into it now . . . :wink2:

That verse in Mark 8:25 speaking of how Jesus made this blind guy "look up".  Isn't it interesting that in our natural thinking . . .seeing men as trees walking is really saying you are still vision impaired.  But spiritually, it was just the opposite.  Our natural logic is always the opposite from what spiritual truth really is saying.

But once Jesus got him to "look up".  Someone asked on one of these threads about why was Jesus in the ground for three days . . .there is nothing Jesus did that was not done with purpose, on purpose.  Three is the number of resurrection.  That's who Jesus "was".  He "was" (and is, and will always be) THE resurrection.  This blind guy was restored once he "looked up".  He received his resurrection.  With the resurrection, clarity came to his understanding.

I would say "if" these trees he saw was to indicate one of the two trees of the garden, it would have to be the tree of knowledge.  Had it have been the tree of life, he would have seen immediately.  But the fact that clarity didn't come until after resurrection, I would then believe that what he was "seeing" was the tree of life, which is Jesus himself, "through" the tree of knowledge.  But once the tree of knowledge entered into the resurrection experience, restoration came with clarity and pronouncment. 

good  thougts Nate
  yes Indeed   looking up , I remember Peter when he looked up and saw Jesus he could walk on water , but when he looked at the waves he sank ! 
I see that as spiritual too bro , as you do
  we SEE JESUS !  not literally  but SPIRITUALLY we SEE HIM  :winkgrin:
  a thankful soul   :HeartThrob: rose

look up ..........
Strong's G352 - anakyptō ἀνακύπτω
Transliteration
anakyptō
Pronunciation

ä-nä-kü'p-tō (Key)

Part of Speech
verb

Root Word (Etymology)

from G303 (in the sense of reversal) and G2955

TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to raise or lift one's self up

a) one's body

b) one's soul
1) to be elated or exalted
:icon_flower:

[WhiteWings]

The only problem I have with it, in retrospect, is how do these people know that the "sea of glass" is the same as the lake of fire? I can't seem to see understand. I mean, it's MIXED with fire, but does that make it the lake of fire

Lets Dutchify this verse:  ==> 2 :banana:

Sea:
We have a saying translated as "a sea of people" it just means lots of people.
Several verses link the vast majority to sea/ocean. To waves of turmoil. Mainly meaning the bad things in life.
Like the whore of Babylon sitting on many seas. Meaning causing havoc among whole humanity.

Glass:
We also have an expression the sea/water is smooth as a mirror. Meaning ultra flat without even the smallest waves.
Mirror=glass

Fire:
Spirits/souls are often described as flames, fire, etc

Sea of glass and fire:
Now simply imagine a world without any negative thing like war, murder, hunger, etc, etc.
Wouldn't that be like a sea smooth like a mirror. The fire is us; the spirits.
And the whore of Babylon is replaced by Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
:2c:

[WhiteWings]

The only problem I have with it, in retrospect, is how do these people know that the "sea of glass" is the same as the lake of fire?

Just a feeling. No verses...  :mblush:

Sea=large.
Lake=small.

Sea of glass = peaceful
LoF = turmoil I think because people are cast into it. Meaning against their will. So certainly at first it won't be peaceful.

If you read THIS thread you could conclude that sea-of-glass is the ocean with purified people. The ones in the harbor will after a while join the ones in the ocean.

So IMO the sea of glass is not LoF

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:.......lake in Hebrew means "harbor" or "safe haven". I always go back into the Hebrew even with Greek words because the NT was originally written in Hebrew and/or Aramaic so the thoughts of God did not change with the language even if the language doesn't translate quite the same.

So, I never heard of a bunch of fire being a safe haven, did you? Unless, that fire is a whole bunch of flames He makes His ministers (and we are ALL ministers) to be, as the tongues of fire come upon our heads and consumes us, because our God is a consuming fire. Salt also burns and we are to be the salt of the earth, because it both sterilizes/sanctifies and preserves.

Additionally, when we're not walking in the Spirit, we're walking thru dry places (wilderness = desert). Did you know that they have found pieces of glass in the deserts where either lightning or meteorites have hit the ground? Sand becomes fused together as glass at high temperatures.

The purpose of His fire is to ensure that anything of sandy dry walk is cleansed out of us, as by fire. The sooner we come into agreement with His Spirit on whatever is being dealt with, the sooner the "struggle" stops and the sooner there is peace. True peace is when the flesh is no longer warring against the Spirit.

So what I see is that the ones that have become so one with His Spirit that NOTHING moves them to walk in dry places anymore, become the calm harbor sea of glass that the others (flames) who are just beginning to learn to walk in His Spirit which is as fire, get cast into. So I see two; the calm and "new flames" together. Blessings.....

[Taffy]

:cloud9: My  :2c:.......lake in Hebrew means "harbor" or "safe haven". I always go back into the Hebrew even with Greek words because the NT was originally written in Hebrew and/or Aramaic so the thoughts of God did not change with the language even if the language doesn't translate quite the same.

So, I never heard of a bunch of fire being a safe haven, did you? Unless, that fire is a whole bunch of flames He makes His ministers to be, as the tongues of fire come upon our heads and consumes us, because our God is a consuming fire. Salt also burns and we are to be the salt of the earth, because it both sterilizes/sanctifies and preserves.

Additionally, when we're not walking in the Spirit, we're walking thru dry places (wilderness = desert). Did you know that they have found pieces of glass in the deserts where either lightning or meteorites have hit the ground? Sand becomes fused together as glass at high temperatures.

The purpose of His fire is to ensure that anything of sandy dry walk is cleansed out of us, as by fire. The sooner we come into agreement with His Spirit on whatever is being dealt with, the sooner the "struggle" stops and the sooner there is peace. True peace is when the flesh is no longer warring against the Spirit.

So what I see is that the ones that have become so one with His Spirit that NOTHING moves them to walk in dry places anymore, become the calm harbor sea of glass that the others (flames) who are just beginning to learn to walk in His Spirit which is as fire, get cast into. So I see two; the calm and "new flames" together. Blessings.....

:icon_flower:
:icon_flower: :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: My  :2c:.......lake in Hebrew means "harbor" or "safe haven".

Yep that's what I wrote.

So, I never heard of a bunch of fire being a safe haven, did you? Unless, that fire is a whole bunch of flames He makes His ministers to be, as the tongues of fire come upon our heads and consumes us, because our God is a consuming fire. Salt also burns and we are to be the salt of the earth, because it both sterilizes/sanctifies and preserves.

First of all I hope the above posts made clear I was talking about spiritual fire. Not ET fire.
I think God is that refiners fire. Well read the thread I linked to.

Additionally, when we're not walking in the Spirit, we're walking thru dry places (wilderness = desert). Did you know that they have found pieces of glass in the deserts where either lightning or meteorites have hit the ground? Sand becomes fused together as glass at high temperatures.

I'm well aware how glass is made (and recycled) It's even how wafers for computer chips are made...

So what I see is that the ones that have become so one with His Spirit that NOTHING moves them to walk in dry places anymore, become the calm harbor sea of glass that the others (flames) who are just beginning to learn to walk in His Spirit which is as fire, get cast into. So I see two; the calm and "new flames" together. Blessings.....

Revelation 14:10  .... and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Angels=saints=calm flames.
So I agree with you that LoF is a mixture. But I'm not so sure all cleaned people are there. Only the elect I think.
Plus LoF is a stage of the process. The goal of those cast in LoF is joining the sea of glass.
:2c:

[jesushandsarekindhands]

:cloud9: My  :2c:.......lake in Hebrew means "harbor" or "safe haven". I always go back into the Hebrew even with Greek words because the NT was originally written in Hebrew and/or Aramaic so the thoughts of God did not change with the language even if the language doesn't translate quite the same.

So, I never heard of a bunch of fire being a safe haven, did you? Unless, that fire is a whole bunch of flames He makes His ministers to be, as the tongues of fire come upon our heads and consumes us, because our God is a consuming fire. Salt also burns and we are to be the salt of the earth, because it both sterilizes/sanctifies and preserves.

Additionally, when we're not walking in the Spirit, we're walking thru dry places (wilderness = desert). Did you know that they have found pieces of glass in the deserts where either lightning or meteorites have hit the ground? Sand becomes fused together as glass at high temperatures.

The purpose of His fire is to ensure that anything of sandy dry walk is cleansed out of us, as by fire. The sooner we come into agreement with His Spirit on whatever is being dealt with, the sooner the "struggle" stops and the sooner there is peace. True peace is when the flesh is no longer warring against the Spirit.

So what I see is that the ones that have become so one with His Spirit that NOTHING moves them to walk in dry places anymore, become the calm harbor sea of glass that the others (flames) who are just beginning to learn to walk in His Spirit which is as fire, get cast into. So I see two; the calm and "new flames" together. Blessings.....

Thank you Cardinal that was very relevant to me.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

:cloud9: My  :2c:.......lake in Hebrew means "harbor" or "safe haven".

Yep that's what I wrote.

So, I never heard of a bunch of fire being a safe haven, did you? Unless, that fire is a whole bunch of flames He makes His ministers to be, as the tongues of fire come upon our heads and consumes us, because our God is a consuming fire. Salt also burns and we are to be the salt of the earth, because it both sterilizes/sanctifies and preserves.

First of all I hope the above posts made clear I was talking about spiritual fire. Not ET fire.
I think God is that refiners fire. Well read the thread I linked to.

Additionally, when we're not walking in the Spirit, we're walking thru dry places (wilderness = desert). Did you know that they have found pieces of glass in the deserts where either lightning or meteorites have hit the ground? Sand becomes fused together as glass at high temperatures.

I'm well aware how glass is made (and recycled) It's even how wafers for computer chips are made...

So what I see is that the ones that have become so one with His Spirit that NOTHING moves them to walk in dry places anymore, become the calm harbor sea of glass that the others (flames) who are just beginning to learn to walk in His Spirit which is as fire, get cast into. So I see two; the calm and "new flames" together. Blessings.....

Revelation 14:10  .... and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Angels=saints=calm flames.
So I agree with you that LoF is a mixture. But I'm not so sure all cleaned people are there. Only the elect I think.
Plus LoF is a stage of the process. The goal of those cast in LoF is joining the sea of glass.
:2c:

Whitewings you said
and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

What does it mean after this passage where it says that the smoke over their tomernt rises for ever and ever and there is no rest day or night who worships the beast and his image?  In my NIV bible it sounds like eternal torment again, can you shed light on this?

[WhiteWings]

Whitewings you said
and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

What does it mean after this passage where it says that the smoke over their tomernt rises for ever and ever and there is no rest day or night who worships the beast and his image?  In my NIV bible it sounds like eternal torment again, can you shed light on this?

I would say get a proper translated Bible  :laughing7:

(CLV)  And the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons. And they are having no rest day and night, those worshiping the wild beast and its image, and if anyone is getting the emblem of its name.

(EngSinaiticus)  and the smoke of their torment ascends from age to age; and they who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name, have no rest day or night.

(Darby)  And the smoke of their torment goes up to ages of ages, and they have no respite day and night who do homage to the beast and to its image, and if any one receive the mark of its name.

(Diaglott-NT)  And smoke of the torment of them for ages of ages rises up; and not they have rest day and night those worshipping the wild-beast and the image of him, and if any one receives the mark of the name of him.

(GDBY_NT)  And the smoke of their torment, ascends up into ages of ages: and they have no rest day and night, who worship the beast and his image, and if any one receives the mark of his name.

(Rotherham) And, the smoke of their torment, unto ages of ages, ascendeth; And they have no rest day or night, who do homage unto the beast and his image, or if anyone receiveth the mark of his name.

(RNT)  And the smoke of their torture will ascend for ages of ages and they will have no rest day or night — those who worship the Beast and his image, and any one who receives the mark of his name."

(WNT)  And the smoke of their torment goes up until the Ages of the Ages; and the worshipers of the Wild Beast and his statue have no rest day or night, nor has any one who receives the mark of his name.

(YLT)  and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Not trying to butt in, but Willie got a recent revelation on that which he shared under the, "2Thessonians 2:10-12; will these people be saved?" thread on that, which was so good and so obvious, (except for the fact we're having to unlearn some of the things of Babylon to keep from seeing things the same way, so couldn't see it)......

"and THE smoke OF the TORMENTS rise up forever... It is the TORMENTS which are burning up in THIS LIFE, never to be suffered again EVER! ...and that TIME is the FIRE in which we (in our varying  torments) BURN..."

Blessings......