Money and The Gospel-(Split From Another Topic)

[sheila]

 Martin;

  I am in total agreement in regard to Annanis and Sapphira.

  You could say the man of sin was destroyed and the son and

  daughter of God delivered from that lying spirit.

                                  Sheila

[sheila]

  well, I had never even heard about the 'word of faith'..I just

follow the spirit.  But I will share an expierance I had.

   I lived on a 16 acre farm..and was in bondage in Babylon

religion. When He pulled me out of that situation,I went to a

160 acre farm and had a lot of money.And received great

spiritual wealth along with it

Of which I dispatched as the need occurred[and there was

need!!]At that place I

expierenced the most extreme persecution I ever had.


  Finally,I was delivered from there also..and currently dwell

East of Eastside Park. My finacial situation is 'tight' but

I am dwelling in great peace and all my needs are met.

  It was after I expeierenced these things that I read about

them in the scriptures,100 fold..and realized that this is what

had happened to me.

   I was shown a vision of my face that turned into a white

horse with wings and flew from the 100 fold and great

persecution situation....this is the woman  taken to the place

prepared away from the face of the serpent. Currently I dwell on

East'edge ,of EASTSIDE PARK.

   He  has worked with me in this manner. I actually almost

literally drowned in floodwaters[ and realized the scriptures in

Rev regarding it[woman dragonflood] had happened to me.

   It is like He has made my life a sign or symbol of what He is

doing with His church.Literally and spiritually


   I am in a 'waiting' on the Lord, Park expierence at present.

and this is my situation spiritually speaking,'You who dwell in

the garden with freinds in attendance,LET ME HEAR YOUR

  VOICE"

   Now, I know He is dealing with the body of beleivers as He is

dealing with me. For I see myself and my life as a living symbol


  Isaaih 8;18  Here am I, and the children the Lord has given

me.We are signs and symbols in Israel from the Lord Almighty,

who dwells in Zion.

   He teaches us all in different ways, and this is how He

  teaches me. I rarely know what is coming up..it is only after He

brings me through a lot of things that I realize He fulfilled it in

  me,then the Holy spirit quickens the scriptures and I

  understand what has taken place


  I know individually He is doing His work of deliverance

   in all of us and we each expierance a unique spiritual journey,

  but we will and do have many expierences in common.

                 Sheila

[Molly]

Psalm 149:1
Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN Sheila......I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. He has done the same kinds of things with me, and only shown me afterwards a lot of times, what exactly He did and why. He told me one of the reasons is so our carnal mind can't corrupt the Word/breath that came by adding to or taking away from. Of a fact, the body must do what it sees it's Head do.

And to Sparrow; yes, that is what I mean. Universalism is a truth contained in THE TRUTH, and I refuse to build an altar to it, as has been done by men with every perceived truth before it. Blessings....

[sheila]

 in regard to the 100 fold.Remember to whom much is given

much is required. And our Lord who was rich made Himself poor

for our sakes. When you are in the 100 fold make freinds for

yourself by means of the unrighteous riches,in order that you

will be warmly welcomed when these things fail/end.


  Doing that you will have 'freinds' in attendance in the Garden.

  We are tested in the 100 fold..beware the enticement of

  Babylon who lived in shameless luxury/that spirit must be

totally done away with..we must flee from it.


   You will pour out everything in the 100 fold and be emptied

like a drink offering ;and what He gave you will be given back/

poured out. Just as your Lord was poured out.


   Be joyful in that He has blessed you with things to give

  [for it is more blessed to give]


                              Sheila

[sparrow]

Is the focus on God's love?

Is this "fruit" earthly riches, fleeting... temporary earthly treasures... money...?

or is the fruit, the love that God grows in a person's heart? Is the "seed" a monetary offering to a ministry adorned with dollar signs and private jets?

Or is the "seed' God's love planted in our heart? So that as it grows it produces compassion, joy, love, patience, gentleness, kindness, long-suffering towards our neighbor?

LOVE is the true treasure.
GOD is LOVE.
and His love isn't for sale for a $58 "seed" offering.

Peace.

[sheila]

well,Sparrow,very good point...

   cause I tell you, if LOVE FOR OTHERS IS NOT IN YOUR HEART

  THOSE VERY RICHES WILL BECOME A TRAP AND SNARE FOR

   YOU.

      Sheila

[Seth]

Is the focus on God's love?

Is this "fruit" earthly riches, fleeting... temporary earthly treasures... money...?

or is the fruit, the love that God grows in a person's heart? Is the "seed" a monetary offering to a ministry adorned with dollar signs and private jets?

Or is the "seed' God's love planted in our heart? So that as it grows it produces compassion, joy, love, patience, gentleness, kindness, long-suffering towards our neighbor?

LOVE is the true treasure.
GOD is LOVE.
and His love isn't for sale for a $58 "seed" offering.

Peace.

Speak on it sister!

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Is this "fruit" earthly riches, fleeting... temporary earthly treasures... money...?

We see Jesus offered the kingdoms of the world if he would only bow down and worship satan.  That must mean that satan was in possession of said kingdoms.  Jesus didn't tell satan those were not his kingdoms to give.  He told him to worship, and only worship, God.

The fact that most who pursue money and power and wealth end up worshipping satan does not mean that such is inevitable.  Don't forget that our Lord has come to give us abundant life.  In God's economy that means riches beyond measure.  We see God's economy at work in the garden.  Plant a few zucchini plants and reap enough squash to feed the whole neighborhood.  Stop picking it because you are satiated, and one squash will grow big enough to feed a family of ten.



John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

"abundantly"

G4053
περισσός
perissos
per-is-sos'
From G4012 (in the sense of beyond); superabundant (in quantity) or superior (in quality); by implication excessive; adverb (with G1537) violently; neuter (as noun) preeminence: - exceeding abundantly above, more abundantly, advantage, exceedingly, very highly, beyond measure, more, superfluous, vehement [-ly].

[sparrow]

Is this "fruit" earthly riches, fleeting... temporary earthly treasures... money...?

We see Jesus offered the kingdoms of the world if he would only bow down and worship satan.  That must mean that satan was in possession of said kingdoms.  Jesus didn't tell satan those were not his kingdoms to give.  He told him to worship, and only worship, God.

The fact that most who pursue money and power and wealth end up worshipping satan does not mean that such is inevitable.  Don't forget that our Lord has come to give us abundant life.  In God's economy that means riches beyond measure.  We see God's economy at work in the garden.  Plant a few zucchini plants and reap enough squash to feed the whole neighborhood.  Stop picking it because you are satiated, and one squash will grow big enough to feed a family of ten.



John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

"abundantly"

G4053
περισσός
perissos
per-is-sos'
From G4012 (in the sense of beyond); superabundant (in quantity) or superior (in quality); by implication excessive; adverb (with G1537) violently; neuter (as noun) preeminence: - exceeding abundantly above, more abundantly, advantage, exceedingly, very highly, beyond measure, more, superfluous, vehement [-ly].

Molly,

Yes to have LIFE more abundantly.
Not riches. Not money.

There is no peace in the pursuit of temporary worldly things like money, power and wealth. The only peace is in God.

Money does not bring peace.
And to try to find peace by searching for it in the riches of this world is a lesson in futility.

Like I said, there is nothing inherently wrong with HAVING money. Go back and read my earlier post about what I said of those with money.
But this holding it up like it is God is something else, entirely.
This holding it up like some GOAL!!
Holding it up like it is the whole point of GOD. Holding it up like it is something sacred.
Holding it up like it is what you need to FOCUS on. The luxuries of this temporary, fleeting world...  :sigh:

To change the whole message of Christ to one of "He is here to bring you abundant money!!" is to cast the REAL FRUIT into the shadows.

Why do people want to store up "treasures" that will rust and decay when Jesus is telling you to store up the treasures that DO NOT?? The TRUE treasures.

LOVE is the goal. Not riches.

By the way I DO think that God's love for ALL mankind IS the message.
God's LOVE.
This is the message.
From His LOVE come all the riches... and I'm not taking the "gold watch" kind of riches.



Well, I'm not sure what else to say that hasn't already been said. This discussion is a testament to the fact that you should never lean on man's understanding or what folks say God has told them personally, but to lean on God Himself. The peace that surpasses all understanding. No matter what anyone agrees with or disagrees with, HE will not lead you astray. He IS the Good Shepherd and WILL leave the 99 to find the one. Hallelujah for that. Because I know how many times I have been "the one". And I know I will be "the one" again in the future. How uplifting to know that there is NO-WHERE where we can go where we can ever possibly stray "too far". His arm always stretches further. No matter how far we do stray.

He is refining us all. This issue may divide us, but you are all still my brothers and sisters and nothing will ever change that. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue. Though it's a big issue, and definitely causes me to view posts through a different set of eyes now... we are STILL brothers and sisters. May He wrap His loving arms around us all, bring us to truth, and lovingly guide us ALL on our path. And may we all continue to learn from each other.

peace.

[Molly]

Yes, but, God's love doesn't mean much to people in the abstract.  What would it mean to a mother watching her child dying of hunger?  Or a man watching his wife suffering from a painful disease?

Jesus showed his love by feeding and healing people and he did it with abundance--feeding 4000 people from 7 loaves and a few fishes.  He showed them concretely the meaning of God's love in the street and on the cross.

The message may have been perverted by some, but it is abundance for all.

Do you think we couldn't achieve that today?  We could--easily.



1In those days the multitude being very great, and having nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples unto him, and saith unto them,

2I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat:

3And if I send them away fasting to their own houses, they will faint by the way: for divers of them came from far.

8So they did eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets.

--Mark 8

[Seth]

God's love and life cease to be abstract when faith comes. Saying that God's life is not material, does not make it abstract.

It isn't that God will not give material help is not the point. The point is where the SEEKING is. Is the SEEKING in material? Or is the seeking in the Spirit, which is what the kingdom is: peace and joy in the Spirit. Seek that, and ALL things will be ADDED to it. But when someone seeks the material FIRST, is where it gets perverted.

Case in point, yes Jesus fed the multitudes with physical fish and bread. He healed their physical eyes. He healed their physical sores.

But where were they when he was on the cross? Where were the multitudes who praised Jesus as he entered Jerusalem on a donkey? What happened to their faith?

If we seek material, we will get material, and it does no good when faith is tested, when material is taken away. Even drug cartel's have no problem making money. But one who seeks the Spirit, it won't matter if he has material or loses it, because that isn't what he primarily seeks.

The problem I have with the orthodox teaching of Word of Faith is in how they make you doubt your own faith when you don't receive the goods. It is never suggested to them that their faith should not be questioned but strengthened in any adverse experience. Rather, it's your faith on trial every Sunday. It makes me sick. I know this from life experience. I see some family members struggling under it.

[Molly]

The problem I have with the orthodox teaching of Word of Faith is in how they make you doubt your own faith when you don't receive the goods. It is never suggested to them that their faith should not be questioned but strengthened in any adverse experience. Rather, it's your faith on trial every Sunday. It makes me sick. I know this from life experience. I see some family members struggling under it.

That's because they are focusing on themselves rather than others--focusing on the self.

Somebody please tell me why Bill Gates needs billions of dollars...when half the world is starving to death...

God's economy:  One zucchini plant feeds the neighborhood

Satan's economy--Throw away 90 percent of the produce and give 9 percent to the top 1 percent and 1 percent to the bottom 90 percent.  The rest starve.