Brace Yourselves

[firstborn888]

Yes, I know you wrote age of grace. It's not possible for me to forget the OT when reading the NT.
Usually people on this forum are linking verses from OT and NT.
But when I ask about the horror of flood/Sodom I have to look only at the grace part.
God does not change.

Oh, but His dealings with man DRASTICALLY change as does our understanding of Him. Why would God make a flawed covenant? Heb. 8:7 "For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another".

[Molly]

I'm open to discuss but really - please rethink the 'mass destruction' from God scenario. Try to picture Jesus slowly burning that little child alive. If you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing. Or picture Jesus slowly crushing a child to death (as an earthquake might) because again if you say it's the "wrath of God" it's essentially the same thing.

well, let's take the world trade center.  What could we call that?  Was that the wrath of God? Or the actions of a bunch of criminals, and not the boxcutter variety.  I see it as a wake up call but nobody woke up.  We then allowed our leaders to invade two countries, as if that made any sense.  It didn't make sense then, and it makes even less sense now.  But it's still going on.  How can God's grace and favour shine on such an ungodly people--and by that I mean a people who doesn't turn to God for answers but turns instead to their evil leaders?  What does repent mean?  It means change your way of thinking.

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly, and look to the real Shepherd as our king, rather than the thieves who have climbed into the sheep pen for way too long now.  Or what?  God won't bring this down on us, we will ourselves.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

[Molly]

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

There is always room for improvement.  But current events really has nothing to do with God being more likely to pull the plug now as opposed to our past history.

[Molly]

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

There is always room for improvement.  But current events really has nothing to do with God being more likely to pull the plug now as opposed to our past history.

God is not pulling the plug, man is.  You are watching a train wreck in slow motion.

The engineer is asleep and the train is being remote controlled by a bunch of criminals.

Only God can save us.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We need to change our way of thinking very quickly,

So you haven't?

I did a long time ago.  But, we, as a country need to on a massive scale.

There is always room for improvement.  But current events really has nothing to do with God being more likely to pull the plug now as opposed to our past history.

God is not pulling the plug, man is.  You are watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Only God can save us.

Events of the past make these kinds of statements irrevelant to center on gloom today. 

Jesus is the saviour of all mankind, yes indeed.

[Molly]

Events of the past make these kinds of statements irrevelant to center on gloom today. 

Jesus is the saviour of all mankind, yes indeed.

well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view.  It's like the guy in the burning building who refuses the help of the fire department because he says God will save him.  When he dies and goes to heaven he accuses God of not saving him.  And, God says, I did.  I sent the fire department. 

The prophets are the fire department.

I really don't relish the thought of repeating the high tech version of the dark ages even if Jesus has always been the Saviour of mankind. 

The bottom line is we need to repent as a nation and stop making deals with the devil.

[Paul Hazelwood]

well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

[Molly]

well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

I added up above--the prophets are the fire department.

[Paul Hazelwood]

well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

I added up above--the prophets are the fire department.

No,  be specific to me,  your addressing me,  talk to me,  don't accuse me,  don't add me to your WE unless you can explain why I am passive.

[Molly]

well, that is a very passive way to look at it, from my point of view. 

Please explain why that is passive rather than just making the accusation.

I added up above--the prophets are the fire department.

No,  be specific to me,  your addressing me,  talk to me,  don't accuse me,  don't add me to your WE unless you can explain why I am passive.

I don't really know you well enough to talk to you personally.  But, I can see you are rejecting the message of God's prophets.  Now maybe you have been lucky enough to avoid the disaster that has come down on much of this country to date, and maybe people living in tent cities means nothing to you, and maybe millions of people dead on the other side of the world means nothing, also.

But, God is still calling people to repent, through his prophets, because this thing could still be turned around.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I don't really know you well enough to talk to you personally. 

But you are.

But, I can see you are rejecting the message of God's prophets. 

No, here is the thing,  I reject the modern interpretation in parallel to modern events.   That is not rejecting what you accuse.  I have every right to be skeptical,  I'm 45 years old and I heard the same message using the modern events of the time when I was 12.

It is not God's prophets I am rejecting, it is man.  Is not man who we are told NOT to trust?

But, you accuse me, and think your justified in doing so.   That shows me the will of your own carnality at work.

Now maybe you have been lucky enough to avoid the disaster that has come down on much of this country to date

Lucky?   You think I have been lucky?  What gives you any evidence to say something such as this?

and maybe people living in tent cities means nothing to you, and maybe millions of people dead on the other side of the world means nothing, also.

I pray everyday that more people come to know the gracious God I have come to know, but living in fear, being emotional and distraught will NOT help me keep in tune with the spirit so that it can work on my behalf.

And that's all that surround the religious assertion of the end times and whatever it may entail, emotions, fear, doom.


Accuse all you like, I will not go down that road again.   Think what you will, your doing great at it.

[Molly]

I pray everyday that more people come to know the gracious God I have come to know,...

That sounds good to me.

That's what you are called to do, then.

Others are called to warn people and call them to repent.

And, that's what they are doing.

[Molly]

No, here is the thing,  I reject the modern interpretation in parallel to modern events.   That is not rejecting what you accuse.  I have every right to be skeptical,  I'm 45 years old and I heard the same message using the modern events of the time when I was 12.

If this country had repented 33 years ago, we wouldn't be in the boat we are in now.

You are right in saying there is nothing new, it's the same old dead end road, but when you can see for yourself that the road is going nowhere, it's time to turn around and go in a different direction.

We need to go in a different direction because the road is ending, as it always was going to end.

[Paul Hazelwood]

it's the same old dead end road,

Yep, accusers still accusing offering nothing to increase faith.   

[Molly]

it's the same old dead end road,

Yep, accusers still accusing offering nothing to increase faith.   

Interestingly enough, no one listened to the prophets in the Old Testament.  God's glory was then shown through the statements of the prophets coming true.  Unfortunately, this is a hard way to gain faith.

The prophets in the Old Testament always showed a way out--

"If you will return, Israel,
      return to me,"
   announces the Lord.
   "Put the statues of your gods out of my sight.
      I hate them.
      Stop going down the wrong path.
2 Take all of your oaths in my name.
      Say, 'You can be sure that the Lord is alive.'
      Let all of your promises be truthful, fair and honest.
   Then I will bless the nations.
      And they will take delight in me."

--Jer 4

[Paul Hazelwood]

Yes, so really, nothing has changed, Christians keep listening to men and then start making accusations when their belief in men is not believed.

[Molly]

Yes, so really, nothing has changed, Christians keep listening to men and then start making accusations when their belief in men is not believed.

Not sure what you mean.  Prophets are men, speaking the words of God. They are being shown the future for a reason, so they can communicate it to God's people.  They are being told by God to communicate certain messages--



1 A message came to me from the Lord. He said, 2 "Go. Announce my message to the people in Jerusalem. I want everyone to hear it. Tell them,

   " 'I remember how faithful you were to me when you were young.
      You loved me as if you were my bride.
   You followed me through the desert.
      Nothing had been planted there.
3 Your people were holy to me.
      They were the first share of my harvest.
   All those who destroyed them were held guilty.
      And trouble came to their enemies,' "
   announces the Lord.

--Jer 2

[Paul Hazelwood]

Yes, so really, nothing has changed, Christians keep listening to men and then start making accusations when their belief in men is not believed.

Not sure what you mean.  Prophets are men, speaking the words of God. They are being shown the future for a reason, so they can communicate it to God's people.  They are being told by God to communicate certain messages--



1 A message came to me from the Lord. He said, 2 "Go. Announce my message to the people in Jerusalem. I want everyone to hear it. Tell them,

   " 'I remember how faithful you were to me when you were young.
      You loved me as if you were my bride.
   You followed me through the desert.
      Nothing had been planted there.
3 Your people were holy to me.
      They were the first share of my harvest.
   All those who destroyed them were held guilty.
      And trouble came to their enemies,' "
   announces the Lord.

--Jer 2

For 33 years I have watched Christians listen to men, nothing has changed,  you and spokenfor offered me nothing but accusation, how is that listening to Gods prophets when my own life and my beliefs and doing what I can could not be seen.

You think the spirit could not have seen that?   I had to defend myself in order to counter the accusation?   There is no Godly spirit coming about there.

[sparrow]

I live in this world but I am not OF this world.

This world system... is what it is.

I am what I am.

one person.


All I know is that I am trying to let God's love shine through me as much as possible.


What else am I supposed to do??

I'm not going to instill fear in anyone.

Fear is darkness.
I will have no part in that.
And I don't think we, as people who know the reality of God's love for all of His creatures should have a part in this fearmongering either. I really don't.

The way I see it, we need to lay down the "the end is near" signs and pick up the "GOD LOVES YOU, WORLD!" signs.

Showing more love and kicking the hell out of all the fear.

I don't fear.
Man can do NOTHING to me.
What can Man do to me, What is the worst man can do to me?
Kill me?
And...??
This isn't my home anyway.
This isn't ANYONE's home.

LOVE. That's the best I can do.
Is just go out and do whatever I can to put the love that He has put into MY heart, into someone elses heart. Love is the ONLY thing that is going to CHANGE anything.
LOVE is the most powerful thing in this universe because GOD is love. There is a lot of suffering people out there, the last thing they need is more fear.

That is all I can think to do.
I don't know what else I CAN do.
and I WON'T have any part of spreading a message of fear.
A year ago... perhaps I would.
Not now.


well... that's my 2.5 cents.
perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm misguided... :dontknow:
But that's where I'm at.

[Molly]

For 33 years I have watched Christians listen to men, nothing has changed,  you and spokenfor offered me nothing but accusation, how is that listening to Gods prophets when my own life and my beliefs and doing what I can could not be seen.

You think the spirit could not have seen that?   I had to defend myself in order to counter the accusation?   There is no Godly spirit coming about there.

well, I don't know what men they were listening to or what the men were saying--but from where I sit, nothing has changed in 33 years--so...either they were saying the wrong thing or not enough were listening (probably the latter).

But, I don't see what that has to do with what is being said on this thread now.

[Paul Hazelwood]

either they were saying the wrong thing or not enough were listening (probably the latter).

Over all it is the message that God's gonna get us,  it's not really about love,  or the personal accusations when someone doesn't see it someones way would stop.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I agree sparrow, thanks for sharing the issue of love that seems to be missing from this area.

[firstborn888]

I agree sparrow, thanks for sharing the issue of love that seems to be missing from this area.

With few exceptions (sociopaths maybe - and even them deep inside) that's what everyone really wants and that's why they lash out in fear by not experiencing. Threats of doom just up the rebellion.  David Wilkerson had the right approach with a hardened criminal named Nicky Cruz (whom I've worked for) but he forgot and now uses threats of violence. Threats of violence is abuse folks. You can get arrested for that.