Favorite UR Songs

[Mr.Irrelevant]

This song plays all the time on K-love. (nationwide contemporary Christian station)  I listen to the lyrics and can't help but wonder if SCC is a universalist, and if the powers that be at K-love are sympathetic or if they just don't screen their songs for "doctrinal purity."

Steven Curtis Chapman - Yours
From the album This Moment

I walk the streets of London
And notice in the faces passing by
Something that makes me stop and listen
My heart grows heavy with the cry

Where is the hope for London?
You whisper and my heart begins to soar
As I'm reminded
That every street in London is Yours
Oh, yes it is

I walk the dirt roads of Uganda
I see the scars that war has left behind
Hope like the sun is fading
They're waiting for a cure no one can find

And I hear children's voices singing
Of a God who heals and rescues and restores
And I'm reminded
That every child in Africa is Yours

Chorus:
And its all Yours, God, Yours, God
Everything is Yours
From the stars in the sky
To the depths of the ocean floor
And its all Yours, God, Yours, God
Everything is Yours
You're the Maker and Keeper, Father and Ruler of everything
It's all Yours

And I walk the sidewalks of Nashville
Like Singapore, Manila and Shanghai
I rush by the beggar's hand and the wealthy man
And everywhere I look I realize

That just like the streets of London
For every man and woman, boy and girl
All of creation
This is our Father's world

Chorus:

(4x's)
It's all Yours, God

The glory is Yours, God
All the honor is Yours, God
The power is Yours, God
The glory is Yours, God

You're the King of Kings
And Lord of Lords

[martincisneros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27GUZsrhxJ8

[martincisneros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bBxO37LE4

[martincisneros]

This would also be an amazing Postmillenial song as well, but it fits in with a matured vision/understanding of the UR message from the Scriptures as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgWS09e_Gk

[Beloved Servant]

Hi, I was raised Roman Catholic, please, can someone explain the term Postmillenial.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27GUZsrhxJ8

:omg:  Thanks for posting this song Martin... Phil Keaggy is a MASTERFUL guitarist, and the song certainly BORN from above...

...willieH  :angelharp:

[martincisneros]

Hi, I was raised Roman Catholic, please, can someone explain the term Postmillenial.

Postmillenialism is one of the beliefs about the millenium, and how we view the millenium says a lot about our belief in UR if we're a Christian Universalist.  (Whatever you believe about the millenium doesn't have an ultimate baring on the outworkings of all of God's dealings with every single Creature 'cause it concerns itself with a span of time out of human history rather than "the whole plan."  For some a literal 1,000 years, but for others a figurative, indefinitely long period of time.)  I'm personally an Absolute Postmillenialist because I don't believe that Revelation 20 teaches a final Apostacy at the end of the millenial reign of the the saints.  However, it's not a leap to still believe in UR and regular Postmillenialism if someone believes in either conversion at death or after death, or at the resurrection, for those not reached by the Gospel in this life.  Regular Postmill doesn't necessarily believe every single person on the entire planet will be converted in this life time in any generation or series of generations, but believes most people in a generation or in several will be saved as we approach the resurrection.  I've collected two extracts for you into one brief segment that I want to share here from an online book that's actually from a Calvinistic website, but though it's from a Calvinistic website doesn't make it invalid as a perspective on the Biblical concept of the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20.  The main small booklet that's probably not even 50 pages is at this link if you decide you want to read the whole thing 'cause it's very interesting on Revelation 19 and other stuff:  http://www.berith.org/essays/esch and the two brief extracts that I wanted to share from this booklet that summarize the perspective and will explain my comment about the song "Wherever We Go" by the Newsboys is as follows:


Debates on eschatology tend to be confusing. There is, of course, a vast amount of Scripture to be dealt with, and the passages to be interpreted are admittedly sometimes complex. Add to this a long history of theological debate, and it is easy to see why the subject of eschatology can be bewildering. But it doesn't have to be this way, as we shall see.

Defining the Issues

Three Positions

There are three basic positions regarding the time of the second coming of Christ. Premillennialism teaches that Christ returns before the end of history to inaugurate an earthly kingdom of a thousand years. Amillennialism denies an earthly kingdom age and says the coming of Christ is the end of history. Postmillennialism agrees with amillennialism that the coming of Christ ends history. It also agrees with premillennialism that there will be a kingdom of God on earth and in time. However, the postmillennialist believes that Christ will bring in His kingdom through the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church and then return to this world at the end of the history when God's kingdom purposes have been fully realized.

Two Theological Questions

Greg Bahnsen has narrowed the eschatological debate to two specific theological questions:

Question 1: "Is the church age inclusive of the millennium? (Alternatively: Will the end-time events of Christ's return, the resurrection, and judgment synchronize with each other?)"

To this question the premillennialist answers no. For the premillennialist the church age is distinct from the future millennium. Christ returns at the end of the church age to inaugurate the millennium. The final resurrection and judgment occur a thousand years later.

Both the amillennialist and postmillennialist answer yes. Though for different reasons, these positions agree that the Bible teaches that the final judgment, resurrection, and return of Christ synchronize with each other. The millennium for the amillennialist occurs in heaven during the church age. For the postmillennialist the millennium is the final era of the church age.

Question 2: "Will the church age (identical with or inclusive of the millennial kingdom) be a time of evident prosperity for the Gospel on earth, with the church achieving worldwide growth and influence such that Christianity becomes the general principle rather than the exception to the rule (as in previous times)?"

To this question both the premillennialist and amillennialist answer no. They agree that the Gospel will never be victorious in history. The postmillennialist answers yes. He believes that the command of Christ guarantees the victory of the Gospel.

If the postmillennialist can demonstrate that, according to the Bible, the coming of Christ is at the end of history (including the end-time events of the resurrection and judgment), he will have proved his position against the premillennialist. If he can demonstrate that the Gospel of Christ will be victorious within history, resulting in the conversion of the majority of the human race and leading to an age of unparalleled blessing, he will have proved the correctness of his position in contrast to the amillennialist.

The eschatological debate, therefore, is less complicated than it may seem at first. Just two straightforward questions: 1) Does Christ return at the end of history? 2) Will the Holy Spirit succeed in converting the majority of the human race by the Gospel? Answer these questions Biblically, and eschatology is saved from the rhetorical fog of endless theological disputation. The postmillennialist believes that the Biblical answers to these two simple but theologically decisive questions demonstrate the truth of the postmillennial position.


I have heard Christians profess to being uncommitted and unconcerned about eschatology. There are pro-millennialists: "whatever it is, I'm for it." And pan-millennialists: "it will all pan out." No doubt Christians who refer to eschatology in these terms are expressing their frustration over the acrimony which not infrequently characterizes debates over eschatology rather than their actual attitude toward the Biblical doctrine of the millennium. The fact remains, however, that it is intellectually frivolous and morally irresponsible not to seek answers about the doctrine of eschatology. To treat eschatology as an appendix to the Christian faith is to distort virtually every fundamental teaching of the Bible.

God created the world immature (cf. Gn. 1:28). The doctrine of eschatology is the Biblical teaching about God's purposes in creation and their realization through redemptive grace in spite of the rebellion of men against Him (cf. Rev. 21-22). God has sent a Second Adam to succeed where the first Adam failed through sin (Rom. 5:12ff.). As the head of a new race of man, Jesus our Lord has given us the Holy Spirit to open our hearts and lead us to faith and also, by teaching us His word, to enable us to live a life of good works for His glory (cf. Rom. 8:1-14; et al.). The Bible gives us the instruction that we need to live for the glory and praise of our heavenly Father (2 Tim. 3:16-17), so that we can fulfill the purpose for which He has created us.

To be brief, the doctrines of creation, the covenant, man, redemption, the Messiah, the work of the Holy Spirit, the inspiration of the Bible and the Christian life (IQ(J to mention only a few (IQ(J are clearly wedded to the doctrine of eschatology. What God has put together, let not man put asunder!

In my argument I have especially emphasized the covenant because it provides the structure for Biblical revelation. God created the world in covenant with Himself, with man as the covenant lord of the creation. God rules the world by His covenant from the beginning of history to the end. All of man's life, therefore, is covenantal. Understanding God's covenant is the key to understanding not only eschatology, but the whole of the Bible.

Recovering the Biblical doctrine of the covenant is vital to the recovery of the whole Christian worldview and the courage to fight for its realization in history. So long as Christians believe that history develops randomly, or that history is committed to Satan, they will not invest their hearts, their time, or their money in God's kingdom. Eventually, however, God will raise up a generation that trusts Him and will follow His commandments. They will see fulfilled the promise of Christ: "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples" (Jn 15:5-8).

I have written in these four chapters the basic arguments that persuaded me to become a postmillennialist. Whether or not the reader is persuaded, I hope that he will take the eschatological debate seriously. If we are not certain what to believe, it is incumbent upon us to continue to pray and study until we find Biblically persuasive answers to our questions. If we have reached convictions, it is our duty to live by them.

If it is really true, as Hal Lindsey and others teach, that Christ is coming soon, perhaps by the year 1981 1988 1989 1995 2000, then Christians should be in the streets witnessing. One's job future, the children's education, political concerns, investments in real estate, stocks and bonds, in short, anything that concerns life in this world should be put aside as we prepare ourselves for the imminent end. If you believe in Christ's soon return, live like it. Like James said, "faith without works is dead" (Jms. 2:17). Show your faith by your works.

Some premillennialists, of course, disagree with Hal Lindsey and the date-setting type of teacher. They believe that Christ may come any minute and so they must be prepared for His coming today. They also believe that Christ may not come today and so they must live for tomorrow. Cultural labor for God's glory may be meaningful, if Christ does not come soon, for it is a means of evangelism and a form of worship. But if Christ is coming soon, it may also be a waste of time since it takes years of education and labor to accomplish anything important in cultural evangelism. It might be good to invest money in the future since Christ may not come for another hundred years and children are important. But if Christ is coming soon, that money would be much better spent on evangelism. On the other hand . . .

Rather than go on like this, let me say it to you directly: if you believe in this type of premillennialism, you are in intellectual limbo. The best thing you can do is switch your theology. Can an eschatological doctrine that speaks with a "forked tongue" be true?

If you are an unpersuaded amillennialist, you will have to decide whether or not you agree with the date-setting premillennialists, like some amillennialists apparently do. If that is what you believe, live like the Hal Lindsey-type premillennialists. If, on the other hand, you think that history may go on for a few centuries and that there may be some real benefit in Christian cultural endeavor, live like a postmillennialist. Also, if you are theologically inclined, take the time to read the books listed in the footnotes and write a book to refute postmillennialism.

If you are persuaded of postmillennialism, then you believe that Christ has called us to build His kingdom by the power of the Holy Spirit. You should be enthusiastically pursuing distinctly Christian cultural advance either by your own efforts or by financing others who are gifted by God. You should be dedicating yourself to training the next generation to be better and wiser Christians than the present one. If you have children, make certain that you provide a Christian education for them. Political concerns and financial investments, too, are part of your responsibility as a citizen of the heavenly kingdom. Evangelism must not be less emphasized, but actually more emphasized, for the Holy Spirit will only save the world through the preaching of God's people. Rather than relegate evangelism to the few hours a week that one has time for witnessing in the streets, the postmillennialists sees evangelism in broader terms. Witnessing in the street is fine in its place. But it is more important to develop a worldview and lifestyle that are so distinctly Christian that one is evangelizing in all that he does, for "whether we eat or whether we drink," we are to do all "for the glory of God." When the non-Christians see that we live to the glory of God, they will be converted.

Whatever we believe about the millennium, we should seek to live consistently with our faith. Lukewarm, lazy Christianity is an abomination to God (Rev. 3:16). Christian debate over doctrine is not a hobby or a game, nor can it be carried on as an academic exercise. It is serious pursuit of the truth conducted in the fear of God. We are seeking an answer to the most important question we face in our daily lives: "How must I live to glorify God?"

May Jesus Christ our Lord grant understanding to His Church by the grace of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God the Father. Amen.

[martincisneros]

I want to piggy-back off of a comment from the author that I quoted above by saying, with regards to the relevance of our view of the millenium that, a belief in UR answers our question about the heart of God 'cause it brings us into an understanding of God's totally committed love.  However, our view of the millenium in Scripture seems to uniquely bring into the greatest possible focus our Biblical view about "How must I live to glorify God?"

Hebrews 11:6 says that faith pleases God, but Biblically, what does that faith look like?  Our perspective of that ultimately has baring on how we live our lives.  A view regarding the millenium directly affects (though it's not the only thing that will, but it may be the primary thing that will affect) how we view our service to God, and whether we're nearly out of here so let the world go to Hell until we come back, or whether we seek and save the lost, destroy the works of the devil, comfort the broken hearted, and radically change the culture for the better.  Postmillenialism is about fully surrendering to the Holy Spirit to totally transform this world with the Gospel into a place worth living in by teaching and preaching or living our lives according to Gospel principles with the specific intent of doing our part in making this world just a little better place to live in.  There's a degree of empowerment that comes from having the right perspective on this issue of our millenial view, because it defines how we use, value, delegate, appropriate, and redeem our time.

[Beloved Servant]

OH MY, OH my, oh my,
Martin, i am unable to comprehend any of that.
Could you, please, put in 2 or 3 sentences?

[Beloved Servant]

huh? what's eschatology???
This is not a word of my Father.
This is strange to me.

[jabcat]

Martin, I hear you saying there are those that need to be saved, and God will use those He's already saved to both bring in others and in the process, restore creation.  And how we view our calling and responsibility of service is important regarding our dedication and obedience as we play our specific roles in God's PLAN.  Is that the "simple man's" version?  At least in part, close?  'Cause in some ways, I'm a simple man  :mpardon:.

[Beloved Servant]

Dude, Jab, dude,
Thanks for the fewer words, but...
You lost me even worse

[jabcat]

 :mrflo:   :mpardon:

[jabcat]

God's saving people, He's using us, and He's gon'na fix things?  :Whistle:

[Beloved Servant]

Now, the line in the Newsboys song, that says:
                                                                 " It's a wonder You would even care,"


      Is completely disturbing.                                
                                                                   ! It is NO wonder He cares for us. !

                                                             We are His Children, His Beautiful Children.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Beloved... :hithere:

huh? what's eschatology???
This is not a word of my Father.
This is strange to me.

This is theological terminology, not BIBLICAL terminology... If you don't understand THEOLOGY and its invented "terminologies", there is no big loss... :pitiful:

"Eschatology" is the (supposed theological) study and observation of END things -- i.e. -- the "2nd Coming of CHRIST"

CHRIST did not instruct us to be concerned with this, other than to BE ready for it... If you are following Him, and seek Him to be center and crux of your being, it doesn't matter how this world will end...

You are not of this world B-Servant as was your SAVIOR, NOT of this world... you are (as was He) one which is concerned with the ETERNAL...

"Eschatology" is just additional THEOLOGICAL, ...CONFUSION and FEAR which attempts to peak into "tomorrow" and then offer that fear and confusion to those who delve into it... instead of encouraging you to dig deeper into the things of the SPIRIT, ...NOW...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[martincisneros]

WillieH, I think you understood what I posted even less than Beloved Servant did.  What's the least bit confusion or fear about the Biblical perspective that simply says that the Holy Spirit will prevail over every single heart alive on the planet through the Preaching of the Gospel in human history as God brings this world to a close??  Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit was given to believers that He would show us things to come, and He does nothing independent of His Written Word.  Either Jesus told the truth or He was a liar, simple as that.  UR's not the only thing to look forward to.  Romans 8 says we're being conformed to the image of His Son.  Well, His Son knew it all ahead of time and who it was that would betray Him.  Either St. Paul told the truth about things that are revealed to us by His Spirit in 1Corinthians 2, or he didn't.  2Peter 1 and countless other passages say that He's allowing us to be participants in the divine nature through the exceeding great and precious promises that He's given us of His grace and peace.  And that and many other chapters indicate getting with the Holy Spirit to know what the game plan is, i.e., "making your calling and election sure 'cause if you do these things ennumerated in this chapter you'll never stumble, et. al." 

If you completely deny free will, [as you do,] then why wouldn't it be the easier for the Holy Spirit to show us all that's going to happen as we obey Him and the Written Word according to the grace that's abounding towards us from Jesus' High Priestly Ministry as He only says and does what He receives from the Father??  I mean, if no one can alter a single comma in the plan of God -- then in your view, if the Holy Spirit's really here to teach us all things, and if Jesus was telling the truth that the Holy Spirit would show us all things, then from your absolute sovereignty perspective, it ought to be remarkably easy to know the future.  Your theology necessitates going there, if the human equation is completely irrelevant to God's plans!  Then through His empowering us according to His grace, a frog ought not to be able to take a crap in the rain half a world away from us without our knowing about it, as His grace is brought to completion in our lives and His Written Word gains the ascendency over our lives by the fullness of Jesus' intercessions as our High Priest.  There's not a single thing that Jesus ever said that He didn't bleed over, so by His Blood, we ought to know things to come, as His Spirit and Written Word gains more and more strides in our lives in completing the Will of the Father that we'd be sanctified, spirit, soul, and body according to 1Thessalonians 5:23.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:

I was giving Beloved a perspective that I have adopted in my life which is founded in, and contains PEACE.  And which doesn't depend upon what is to come... rather depends upon NOW and the dweller and CONTROLLER of NOW, ...my Lord and Savior...

Before I address it, this post seems to make you appear to be in a "huff"... No offense was intended toward you or anyone else who might be looking at things differently than I...  :cloud9:

So may :Peace: reign between us, from this word forward --  :friendstu:

WillieH, I think you understood what I posted even less than Beloved Servant did. 

Hey Martin...  Don't get so all up in a wrinkle, bro... I didn't even read your words... so please don't assume that I did not absorb its contents... I was just defining ESCHATOLOGY for Beloved, and giving him a heart recommendation... and OPINION... You are welcome to disagree with my OPINION...  :dontknow:

What's the least bit confusion or fear about the Biblical perspective that simply says that the Holy Spirit will prevail over every single heart alive on the planet through the Preaching of the Gospel in human history as God brings this world to a close??

The biggest problem that I see with this pursuit is the varying visions that men have of these "ending" things... It is where "post-millennial, pre-millennial, post-trib, pre-trib, preterism, etc" are born...

As I see it, if we stick to serving GOD in our hearts... and bring the GOSPEL to the world -- as CHRIST commanded us to do, then we shall avoid the concern of "how it shall end"... and be about presenting the LIFE which shall be FOREVER, ...instead of promoting our "picture" (which seems to always contain -- FEAR and CONFUSION) to those who might be listening to us, about the "END"...

Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit was given to believers that He would show us things to come, and He does nothing independent of His Written Word.  Either Jesus told the truth or He was a liar, simple as that.

You know me Martin... I would NEVER consider JESUS as "lying" about anything... however... MEN misunderstand MANY of His WORDS... and thereby those misunderstandings lead to faulty assumptions about what He said...

Which is why we have such as ET and HELL permeating the Major portion of His "followers" and the "GOSPEL" they present to the world.

He did say that He would tell of "things to come", brother, and I am not arguing that... and as an individual, I am not led to "interpret" ending things... for to me all they do is CLOUD TODAY with grief, instead of promote the CALM and PEACE of GOD which is what GOD ...AND... His GOSPEL are by HIS WORD, entitled -- Rom 15:33 -- Eph 6:15

What I am saying is that we should be MOST concerned about TODAY and deal with IT, ...rather than WORRYINGLY gaze beyond it and lose focus of TODAY in favor of the EVIL which shall develop upon the earth and mankind, in TOMORROW...

He also said this:

Matt 6:34 -- Take therefor NO THOUGHT for the MORROW, for the MORROW shall TAKE THOUGHT for the things of ITSELF... sufficient unto the DAY is the EVIL THEREOF.

You are welcome to disagree brother Martin, ...but this says to me that we must remained focused upon TODAY, not be about worrying what shall befall us tomorrow let alone, years to come...  For many of us will not LIVE beyond TODAY anyway...  :HeartThrob:

UR's not the only thing to look forward to.  Romans 8 says we're being conformed to the image of His Son.  Well, His Son knew it all ahead of time and who it was that would betray Him.  Either St. Paul told the truth about things that are revealed to us by His Spirit in 1Corinthians 2, or he didn't.

Paul was teaching men the WAY of LIFE, ...he was not the "kreskin" of his day... His writings were about the LOVE and procession of that LOVE... not about proposing this or that HORROR that we might "look forward" to... :rolleye:

That JESUS knew ahead of time, what was to come upon Him, and who would "betray" Him is not the point of our lives here (IMO)... nor is it the center of His teachings to us in the Spirit.  He and His Apostles, SIMPLY spoke of the WAY a man...

(1) is called and brought to service (as was His Savior)
(2) can serve (as did His Savior)
(3) will enJOY ...the glory that shall result of that service (with His Savior)

It was not about presenting FEAR to men, nor was it concerned HOW things would END... it was about BEGINNING...

You shall in all likelihood disagree, but we are proceeding from ETERNAL perspective, from the END to the BEGINNING... even though it appears to us the opposite...  For GOD's Declaration "began" at the END and proceeded to the BEGINNING -- Isaiah 46:10-11

I have a view that the "END" entered ALL MEN with Adam... and the "BEGINNING" is the re-entry into the HOMELAND of HEAVEN... when ALL MEN are in CHRIST... again, you are welcome to disagree with me and my thoughts...  :handshake:

2Peter 1 and countless other passages say that He's allowing us to be participants in the divine nature through the exceeding great and precious promises that He's given us of His grace and peace.  And that and many other chapters indicate getting with the Holy Spirit to know what the game plan is, i.e., "making your calling and election sure 'cause if you do these things ennumerated in this chapter you'll never stumble, et. al."

The WAY you make your calling and election SURE, is not DONE by YOU, Martin...  It is done by HIM due to your ELECTED submission TO HIM -- John 6:44 -- John 14:6 -- as you are CALLED and ELECTED to KNOW Him in this lifetime... by GOD, not of your own doing:  Jude 24 -- Eph 3:20 -- And even that (keeping from falling) is FOREORDAINED to be -- Eph 2:10 -- That which is FOREORDAINED by GOD, is DONE... no "will" other than HIS, enters in, OR ...makes it come to pass, ..."et. al."   :mwink:

If you completely deny free will, [as you do,] then why wouldn't it be the easier for the Holy Spirit to show us all that's going to happen as we obey Him and the Written Word according to the grace that's abounding towards us from Jesus' High Priestly Ministry as He only says and does what He receives from the Father??

Are we herein, going to enter into a "Free will vs Sovereignty" arguement brother Martin?  If so, it is YOU which arose it in this post!  And you well know that I am able to debate you on this subject... so do we now begin?  --  :swordfight:

I am not GOD, and how all this life is proceeding is done according to HIM and is not subject to QUESTION, by ME -- Rom 9:20 -- or YOU!

I mean, if no one can alter a single comma in the plan of God -- then in your view, if the Holy Spirit's really here to teach us all things, and if Jesus was telling the truth that the Holy Spirit would show us all things, then from your absolute sovereignty perspective, it ought to be remarkably easy to know the future.

Again, it appears you wish to engage the "sovereignty and free will" discussion which is (at least I thought, correct me if I am wrong) discouraged here at TM?  :dontknow:

The Holy Spirit, REVEALS (makes known) CHRIST (WORD of YHVH) and YHVH to us...  When the "future" is necessary to be "made KNOWN", then HE makes it KNOWN...  :dontknow:  Not because WE wish it to be "made known"...

The SOVEREIGNTY of GOD is that which BLINDS the JEWS... and they shall REMAIN BLIND until the FULLNESS of GENTILES is completed IN CHRIST... THEN shall they SEE... not one moment BEFORE...

No offense brother Martin, ... but what YOU propose as "ought to be" is NOT the plan... what IS, ...simply, is... and THAT is the plan. 

That some can and will PROPHESY... is part of the PLAN... and the SOVEREIGNTY of God, decides the PLAN... not what YOU (or I) might think that PLAN,  ..."ought to be"...

Your theology necessitates going there, if the human equation is completely irrelevant to God's plans!  Then through His empowering us according to His grace, a frog ought not to be able to take a crap in the rain half a world away from us without our knowing about it, as His grace is brought to completion in our lives and His Written Word gains the ascendency over our lives by the fullness of Jesus' intercessions as our High Priest.  There's not a single thing that Jesus ever said that He didn't bleed over, so by His Blood, we ought to know things to come, as His Spirit and Written Word gains more and more strides in our lives in completing the Will of the Father that we'd be sanctified, spirit, soul, and body according to 1Thessalonians 5:23.

About "THEOLOGY" -- Because YOU consider that YOU have a "theology", you proceed to assume that I have my "theology"...

FIRST --- I do not have a "theology"... I have FAITH in JESUS CHRIST... and follow Him via that FAITH... you are welcome to name my FAITH if you so will as "theology"... but that to me is irrelevant...

SECOND --- THEOLOGY is about INTERPRETATION... I am not concerned with "interpretation"... I believe (have FAITH) as God reveals to me, and on TENTMAKER, ...I herein share that belief... without insisting upon that belief to others... NOT calling them "wrong" and myself "right". 

Those who read my words are ALWAYS welcome to disagree with them, and that disagreement does not bother me in the least... nor does my present position in study and faith mean that it is CONCLUDED to be as it is... I continue to seek daily... and KNOW that there is MUCH MORE to ...KNOW...  :mpardon: ...seeking to be as a "spongelike child"... learning more and more of His GLORIOUS plan which is UNFOLDING according to HIM, not according to me...

:Peace: brother Martin...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[martincisneros]

Wasn't upset at all, believe it or not.  Might of accidentally pounced in my approach but not my attitude.  Nothing I said was from malice or anger.  If I went into details of what's been going on in my life, you'd know I'm grinning WAY TOO HARD to care about any debates right now. :happy3:  God's been fulfilling very glorious promises of His Word that I've stood on by faith at least 17 years, perhaps 19, but trying to remember the precise moment He revealed some areas of Scripture He intended to fulfill in my life and when I latched on like a pit bull with something I wasn't about to let go of, even over the last couple of years when things started getting really, really serious in the spirit realm about it as harvest time in His Word for my life was arriving. :happy3:  I wasn't debating free will vs. sovereignty.  My point was that the certainty of things makes it all of the easier and particularly in the light of passages like the ones about the secret of the Lord being with those who fear Him (fear in the KJV sense, i.e., "reverence and awe" as you're probably aware).  Just an argument against God showing us all things per His Sovereign Word necessitates uncertainty regarding the precise times and seasons which the Scriptures actually assure us that He's reserved in His own power.  Well, Romans 1 says the Gospel is the power of God.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:

Wasn't upset at all, believe it or not.  Might of accidentally pounced in my approach but not my attitude.  Nothing I said was from malice or anger.  If I went into details of what's been going on in my life, you'd know I'm grinning WAY TOO HARD to care about any debates right now. :happy3:  God's been fulfilling very glorious promises of His Word that I've stood on by faith at least 17 years, perhaps 19, but trying to remember the precise moment He revealed some areas of Scripture He intended to fulfill in my life and when I latched on like a pit bull with something I wasn't about to let go of, even over the last couple of years when things started getting really, really serious in the spirit realm about it as harvest time in His Word for my life was arriving. :happy3:  I wasn't debating free will vs. sovereignty.  My point was that the certainty of things makes it all of the easier and particularly in the light of passages like the ones about the secret of the Lord being with those who fear Him (fear in the KJV sense, i.e., "reverence and awe" as you're probably aware).  Just an argument against God showing us all things per His Sovereign Word necessitates uncertainty regarding the precise times and seasons which the Scriptures actually assure us that He's reserved in His own power.  Well, Romans 1 says the Gospel is the power of God.

I'm glad you were not upset bro...  :gimmefive:

:Peace: brother Martin...  :friendstu:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Beloved Servant]

Thank you, Willlie,
And grace be with you.
I do understand, better than other people think.

[martincisneros]

Even if not your typical cup of tea on the type of music you'll normally listen to, I believe that this song would genuinely bless most every UR person that's never heard it before.  Really had no idea HOW MUCH UR music I was listening to in my teens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrB0cI2o_N0

[martincisneros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdPtx1Ij9VE

[martincisneros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-M1T_m4kc

[martincisneros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Zj8IgG2Tw