Hey all...if this has been done, it's apparently been awhile, and maybe not in one lump group like this. Do you have any favorite songs that are either obviously UR, or perhaps more subtle that you'd make a case for being UR-consistent? Maybe just a line or two of a song or poem that especially speaks to you. We've recently talked about Ancient of Days, any others? I'll start with one.
When God called me back into writing and putting a band back together, He impressed me it was to be UR-related, sharing the things He'd been showing me...Some of the words of a song He impressed me to write includes some famous old lyrics ;
Jesus, savior of the world
Jesus, savior of the world
Calling, drawing, knocking at the door
Jesus, savior of the world
Vs. 1) Hark the herald angels sing
"glory to the newborn King!"
Peace on earth and mercy mild
God and sinner reconciled (repeat Chorus)
Vs. 2) What can wash away my sin
nothing but the blood of Jesus
What can make me whole again
nothing but the blood of Jesus
Jesus, savior (name above all names!)
Jesus, savior (the only name that saves!)
Yeshua (Jesus!) Redeemer (Savior!) the Father's open door
Jesus, savior of the world
There are a couple of old hymns I've noticed really had a UR ring to them, but can't think of them right now. Can anyone? Another thought...maybe there's a song that if you changed a word or two it would make a great UR song...that might be fun...be creative. God's blessing, James.
Been working on this...man, this is hard! I bet I can think of plenty of ET ones :mshock:.
Petra was a Christian rock band that was around for probably close to 30 years and maybe 20% of their songs are just totally blatant Universalism. Song titles include:
On Fire;
Ancient of Days;
Song of Moses;
Whole World;
Be of Good Cheer;
Grave Robber;
Just Reach Out;
Why should the Father bother;
The Color Song;
He came, He saw, He conquered
And then there's some of Rich Mullen's stuff:
Awesome God (betrays an indepth knowledge of Ezekiel 16:53-55 -- gotta listen to the words very very carefully. The fire that hit them is basically the equivalent of the crucifixion. Both incidents are tied to God speaking into the darkness and creating the light.);
Creed (his version of the Apostle's Creed which is surprisingly missing any ET references or indications of things ending in eternal duality)
Some of the Christmas Songs:
Joy to the World (a song that's Universalist, Postmillenialist, and everything else that I've ever preached in any context, on any website.)
Good ones...yep, some of the "Christmas" ones for sure.
And Petra...ahhh, yeah..
Lucas McGraw, what's come over you?
We're beginnin' to think you're touched
We hear ya got religion
Ya ain't been 'round to see us much
Ya threw away your corncob pipe
And your jug of moonshine brew
And we hear ya ain't been doin'
All those things you used to do
Lucas McGraw, what's come over you?
You're shavin' ev'ry day
You ain't been chasin' women
And you kissed your wife today
You went to church last Sunday
And you shook the preacher's hand
And they say that you been talkin'
'Bout a home beyond this land :laughing7:.
One of their, uh, more tongue-in-cheek ones...
How about "Every Man" by Casting Crowns!!!
The final "chorus" goes like this, but the whole song is great and sounded UR from the first time I heard it. Don't know if they intended it, but I'd like to think they did.
There is hope for every man
A solid place where we can stand
In this dry and weary land
There is hope for every man
There is Love that never dies
There is peace in troubled times
Will we help them understand?
Jesus is hope for every man
:thumbsup: I like it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPWq8eM4lu8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPWq8eM4lu8)
Come, not is the time to worship
Come, now is the time to praise the Lord
One day every knee will bow
Ond day every tongue will confess
Still the greatest treasures reamin for those
Who gladly serve you now.
I love that song! That reminds me of one by Phillips, Craig, & Dean called "Mercy Came Runnin'" That song, even in my pre-UR days could totally bring me to my knees with the tears.
Benny Hester in the early 80s released a song called "When God Ran" that's based on the parable of the prodigal son. I believe that Philips, Craig, and Dean have a version of that same song as well.
And in the early 90s Glen Campbell released a similar song, based on the prodigal son parable, but I'm not sure if it's as strongly UR. His song was called "Wayward Son."
Hi Martin...I remember Philips, Craig and Dean but can't remember any of their songs. Anyway, I see a lot of reconcilliation in Christian music. I guess noone would want to praise God if all you sang about was judgment, hellfire, condemnation, hopelessness, fear, and torture. Most churches would have to close their doors also if they preached that way every Sunday. :2c:
Oh duh! Can't believe that I forgot about Petra's song "Enter In" from their No Doubt album. It's not the same "Enter In" song that many people might think of. It's this really cool song that's the core redemptive message of Hebrews chapters 9 and 10. That song's always teetered on being a total (not figurative) out-of-body experience for me each of the times that I've heard it. I hope I still have that cassette somewhere. Haven't heard it in ages of ages 'cause of the chaos of the last few years, and really having no time for music when I was reading and rereading so many UR books and getting my head screwed on straight about what the KJV would word as "the end of the Lord." (NKJV: end intended by the Lord)
The chorus of a contemporary tune:
SHOUT to the north and the south
Sing to the east and the west
Jesus is Savior of ALL
Lord of Heaven and Earth!!!
:thumbsup:
We sing some songs at our church that are very UR sounding. One is called the Revelation Song. Here is the first verse and the chorus...don't think I can remember any more right now.
Worthy is the
Lamb that was slain
Holy, holy, is He.
Sing a new song
to Him who sits on
Heaven's mercy seat
Holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty
Who was and is and is to come
With all creation I sing
praise to the king of kings
You are my everything
And I will adore you
Debbie
I love that song too, Anna. We sung it at the church where I grew up.
Debbie
You're the only God
Whose power none can contend
You're the only God
Whose name and praise will never end
You're the only God
Who's worthy of everything we can give
You are God
And thats just the way it is
You are not a god
Created by human hands
You are not a god
Dependant on any mortal man
You are not a god
In need of anything we can give
By Your plan, thats just the way it is
You are God alone
From before time began
You were on Your throne
Your are God alone
And right now
In the good times and bad
You are on Your throne
You are God alone
You are God alone
Praise God this morning, in all His glory and goodness to us. In the "good times and bad", He's not only still on His throne, but also guiding each of us, sometimes through storms and valleys, but always to His higher purpose...for His glory, and our good. Jesus, Savior of all men....God's blessing, James.
Thought of this song by Avalon today....great song. It amazes me that the choir at the Baptist ET church sings this song with great emotion, but don't seem to hear what they're saying...then later in the service folks are "going to hell" :Chinscratch:. Oh well, it is a great song....
Who here among us is without guilt or pain
So oft' abandoned by our transgressions
If such a thing as grace exists
Then grace was made for lives like this
There are no strangers
There are no outcasts
There are no orphans of God
So many fallen, but hallelujah
There are no orphans of God
Come ye unwanted and find affection
Come all ye weary, come and lay down your head
Come ye unworthy, you are my brother
If such a thing as grace exists
Then grace was made for lives like this
O blessed Father, look down upon us
We are Your children, we need Your love
We run before Your throne of mercy
And seek Your face to rise above
There are no strangers
There are no outcasts
There are no orphans of God
So many fallen, but hallelujah
There are no orphans of God
Not sure if this one's already been mentioned, but I just thought of it. Woke up with the song in my head a few days ago:
"No stone to throw" by Sierra, though I may have butchered the spelling on the name of that 3 girl group.
Spelling's right...pasted this part...
Maggie lives in every town,
And people talk about her,
'cause it's easier to put her down,
Than to care about her.
She has a Savior,
He is her judge,
Oh Maggie you deserve,
To be loved...
I've got no stone to throw,
No ax to grind,
I look in Maggie's life,
And I see mine.
God's blessing, James.
That's the song, Jabcat! And this was the lyric that kept rolling over and over in my mind:
Quote from: jabcat on June 11, 2008, 12:38:21 AM
She has a Savior,
He is her judge,
because so much of mainstream Christianity builds a dividing wall between His offices of Judge and Saviour, as though they weren't one and the same, and as though there were some kind of conflict. He only saves by judging what's evil and by subduing our iniquities as He said in Micah 7 and Hosea chapters 9 to 14.
i've always liked this one
When God Ran
Benny Hester
Almighty God,
The Great I Am
Immoveable Rock,
Omnipotent powerful
Awesome Lord,
Victorious Warrior
Commanding King of Kings
Mighty Conquerer,
And the only time,
the only time I ever saw Him run
Was when
He ran to me,
Took me in His arms, held my head to His chest
And said "My son's come home again".
Looked in my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice
He said "Son, do you know I still love you?"
It caught me by surprise when God ran
The day I left Home,
I knew I'd broken His heart
I wondered if
Things could ever be the same,
Then one night,
I remembered His love for me
And down that dusty road, ahead I could see
It's the only time,
the only time I ever saw Him run
Was when He ran to me,
Took me in His arms, held my head to His chest
And said "My son's come home again".
Looked in my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice
He said "Son, do you know I still love you?"
It caught me by surprise, He brought me to my knees
When God ran
I saw Him run to me
And then I ran to Him
Instrumental Bridge
Holy God, Righteous One
Who turned my way
Now I know, He's been waiting
For this day
{Repeat Chorus}
And then He ran to me,
Took me in His arms, held my head to His chest
And said "My son's come home again".
Looked in my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice
I felt His love for me again
{Repeat Chorus}
He ran to me,
Took me in His arms, held my head to His chest
And said "My son's come home again".
Looked in my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice
He said Son, He said Son, My Son!
Do you know I still love you
oohhh...He ran to me
When God ran
(by Chuck Girard)
Don't shoot the wounded, they need us more than ever.
They need our love no matter what it is they've done.
Sometimes we just condemn them, and don't take time to hear their story.
Don't shoot the wounded, someday you might be one.
It's easy to love the people who are standing hard and fast.
Pressing on to meet that higher calling.
But the ones who might be struggling, we tend to judge too harshly, and refuse to try and catch them when they're falling.
We put people into boxes and we draw our hard conclusions, and when they do the things we know they should not do,
we sometimes write them off as hopeless, and we throw them to the dogs.
Our compassion and forgiveness sometimes seem in short supply, so I say...Don't shoot the wounded!
We can love them and forgive them when their sin does not exceed our own. For we too have been down bumpy roads
before but when they commit offenses outside the boundaries we have set,we judge them in a word and we turn them out,
and we close the door. Myself I've been forgiven for so many awful things. I've been cleansed and washed and bathed so
many times that when I see a brother who has fallen from the way I just can't find the license to convict him of his crimes.
So I say... Don't shoot the wounded!
That doesn't mean we turn our heads when we see a brother sin and pretend that what he's doing is all right.
But we must help him see his error, we must lead him to repent. Cry with those who cry, but bring their deeds into the light .
For it's the sick that need the doctor, and it's the lame that need the crutch. It's the prodigal who needs the loving hand. For a
man who's in despair, there should be kindness from his friends. 'Lest he should forsake the fear of Almighty God and turn
away from God and man, So I say...Don't shoot the wounded!
One of my favorites was Rich Mullins, i wish he was still around.
Well, sat in the building with a steeple with my wife Sunday, and once again heard "(There Are No) Orphans of God"...I think I finally understand how ET'ers can sing this song...I think the mindset is, "once you're saved, then you won't be orphaned"....not how I hear it, that everyone will be brought in...
I still really like that song---
Who here among us has not been broken
Who here among us is without guilt or pain
So oft abandoned by our transgressions
If such a thing as grace exists
Then grace was made for lives like this
There are no strangers
There are no outcasts
There are no orphans of God
So many fallen, but hallelujah
There are no orphans of God
Come ye unwanted and find affection
Come all ye weary, come and lay down your head
Come ye unworthy, you are my brother
If such a thing as grace exists
Then grace was made for lives like this
O blessed Father, look down upon us
We are Your children, we need Your love
We run before Your throne of mercy
And seek Your face to rise above
There are no strangers
There are no outcasts
There are no orphans of God
So many fallen, but hallelujah
There are no orphans of God
:Pray: :bowing:
Speaking of PETRA, one of the best inspirational songs of the time was "You Are My Rock".
If you like music with a little more attitude, check this song out. Whenever I needed some powerful Immagery to pump me up, this was the song I sang at the top of my lungs. Incredible tune!
Words by Bob Hartman
Based on Psalm 18:1-6, Psalm 31
Moving through the shadows of uncertainty
Clinging to the words You said
Through my loneliness and fear I long to feel You near
But I hear another voice inside my head
But then the darkness is broken into
By inescapable light from You
I'm never standing alone
(Chorus)
You are my rock, my fortress, my shield
You are my rock, let Your strength be revealed
My rock, my comfort, my peace
My salvation, my refuge, my God
You are my Rock
Through the desperate night my soul cries out to You
Longing just to hear Your voice
In the quiet solitude, I sense Your magnitude
I feel the strength that makes my heart rejoice
You are the anchor securing me
I'll never drift on the shifting sea
You are the eye of the storm
Through all the loneliness this world can ever bring
I'll take my refuge in the shadow of Your wing
Nice lyrics! A little better than "Lucas McGraw".
what do UR and ET mean?
Eternal Torment, hell forever
Ultimate Reconciliation, God will ultimately bring everything back to Himself (Collossians 1:20)
Quote from: Anna on July 29, 2008, 12:06:23 AM
Hi...
I'm looking for a very old hymn, but do not know its title. A couple lines in the song
"I was nothing, till you found me,
You have given life to me....
"...broken pieces..."
Not much to go on, but can someone help me? Thanks, Anna
Hi Anna, if you are still here, the song is called "I Will Serve Thee". Listen to it on You Tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mI2VjuN9BQ&feature=related
CHB
[/quote]
Theres one song, "More" by Matthew West. It dosent mention specifically anything that would make it UR consistent, but its from God's point of view talking to us, and is obviously saying he loves everyone. The song never excludes sinners from that simple statement but it touches me more than any song out there honestly. =]
Take a look at the mountains,
Stretching a mile high,
Take a look at the oceans,
Far as your eye can see,
And think of me,
Take a look at the desert,
Do you feel like a grain of sand?
I am with you wherever,
Where you go is where I am.
Im always thinking of you,
Take a look around you,
Im spelling it out one by one...
I love you more than the sun,
And the stars,
That I taught how to shine,
You are mine,
And you shine for me too!
I love you!
Yesterday, and today,
And tomorrow Ill say,
It again, and again,
I love you more.
Just a face in the city,
Just a tear on a crowded street,
But you were one in a million,
And you belong to me!
And I want you to know,
That im not letting go,
Even when you come undone.
I love you more than the sun,
And the stars,
That I taught how to shine,
You are mine,
And you shine for me too!
I love you!
Yesterday, and today,
And tomorrow Ill say,
It again, and again,
I love you more than the sun,
And the stars,
That I taught how to shine,
You are mine,
And you shine for me too!
I love you!
Yesterday, and today,
And tomorrow Ill say,
It again, and again,
I love you more.
I love you more,
And I see you,
And I made you,
And I love you more... than you... can imagine.
More than you can fathom,
I love you more than the sun... and you shine for me.
:cloud9: I LOVE that song too. I only listen to contemporary Christian music, not because I "have" to, but because I want to. That's one I'm always singing along with although I didn't know the name of it. I'm bad like that, I never know who is singing what, I just know what I like. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on December 31, 2008, 05:38:56 AM
:cloud9: I LOVE that song too. I only listen to contemporary Christian music, not because I "have" to, but because I want to. That's one I'm always singing along with although I didn't know the name of it. I'm bad like that, I never know who is singing what, I just know what I like. Blessings....
More by Matthew West.
I got it on my Ipod. =D Its on his album, "Happy"
Some just seem more obvious than others...and haven't you ever heard "Burn, Baby, Burn"?
Ive heard of it but never actually heard it.
And ive got another song thats touched me. "My Savior, My God" by "Aaron Shust"
I am not skilled to understand,
What God has willed, what God has planned,
I only know at his right hand,
Stands one who is my Savior.
I take Him at His Word and read,
Christ died to save me this I read,
And in my heart I find a need,
For him to be my Savior,
That he would lift this place on high,
And come for sinful men to die,
You count it strange so once did I,
Before I knew my Savior,
My Savior loves, My Savior lives,
My Saviors always there for me,
My God He was, my God He is,
My God Hes always gonna be,
My Savior loves, My Savior lives,
My Saviors always there for me,
My God He was, my God He is,
My God Hes always gonna be!
etc.
:cloud9: Yep, love that one too. When you put the words down and I read them, then I remember the music. Blessings...
Hehe. I have enough to make this topic go to atleast page 10. =P Im addicted to music so I know a lot. xD
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 31, 2008, 05:57:00 PM
Your kidding me? :grin:
That sure doesnt even sound like praise to God
Theres really a song like that out by a christian? :mshock:
Nah, I
am kidding you...although, you know, I can't really completely promise some wack job never wrote a song like that...
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 31, 2008, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: jabcat on December 31, 2008, 08:32:37 PM
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 31, 2008, 05:57:00 PM
Your kidding me? :grin:
That sure doesnt even sound like praise to God
Theres really a song like that out by a christian? :mshock:
Nah, I am kidding you...although, you know, I can't really completely promise some wack job never wrote a song like that...
:grin: "Burn baby burn" ...you had me there for a minute :grin:
I wouldnt doubt it either lol
Lol there is a song like that. =/ And the weird part is the name is something familiar because well... it sounds familiar. O.O
...hahaha I just looked it up... its some disco song ive heard in a movie once. XDDD
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mother down
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mother down
Burnin'!
I know but I couldnt remember the song just the name. =P Until I looked it up I wasnt sure what it was lol. xD
Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 01, 2009, 05:14:38 AM
Quote from: Fang_Diachi on December 31, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
Hehe. I have enough to make this topic go to atleast page 10. =P Im addicted to music so I know a lot. xD
Hey Fang, thought you knew ALOT :grin:
Had to bump this one up to your last post (before this one) :grin:
Alot of Christian, Metal, and Rock mainly. I dont know any disco or "Burn baby Burn" music. :laughing7:
Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 01, 2009, 05:49:04 AM
Quote from: Fang_Diachi on January 01, 2009, 05:18:21 AM
Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 01, 2009, 05:14:38 AM
Quote from: Fang_Diachi on December 31, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
Hehe. I have enough to make this topic go to atleast page 10. =P Im addicted to music so I know a lot. xD
Hey Fang, thought you knew ALOT :grin:
Had to bump this one up to your last post (before this one) :grin:
Alot of Christian, Metal, and Rock mainly. I dont know any disco or "Burn baby Burn" music. :laughing7:
Com on I bet cha can sing it for me :bgdance:
:grin:
How about not. =P
I love singing but sure not that song. XD
I could not resist the search LOL
3 Burn Baby Burn songs besides the burn disco inferno song lol ..
http://www.metrolyrics.com/burn-baby-burn-lyrics-the-dictators.html (http://www.metrolyrics.com/burn-baby-burn-lyrics-the-dictators.html)
and this by ASH
You're all I have in this teenage twilight
Your golden hair and pale blue eyes
But through all the days and the sleepless nights
We have never been satisfied
Tumbling like the leaves
We are spiraling on the breeze
Almost to the point of no return
Everything will burn baby burn
Look into my tired eyes
See someone you don't recognize
Binds that can't be untied
Oh yeah, this is slow suicide
Feelings that I can't disguise
And never will be reconciled
Oh something inside has died
You walk like your in a daze
Unresponsive eyes in a distant gaze
Like all the good times have flown away
And their memory leaves a bitter taste
Tumbling Like the leaves
We are spiraling on the breeze
Destructive love is all we have
Destructive love is all I am
Look into my tired eyes
See someone you don't recognize
Binds that can't be untied
Oh yeah, this is slow suicide
Feelings that I can't disguise
And never will be reconciled
Oh something inside has died
Vicious bitter words
Becoming more and more cruel
But you always take me back
And let me lick your wounds
Tumbling like the leaves
We are spiraling on the breeze
Almost to the point of no return
Every thing will burn baby burn
Look into my tired eyes
See someone you don't recognize
Binds that can't be untied
Oh yeah this is slow suicide
Feelings that I can't disguise
We're living in a compromise
Oh something inside has died
and this Burn Baby Burn is by L.G.Wise perhaps a Christian root?
Verse 1
I ain't afraid to say
Like you ain't afraid to hate
Wanna tell you face to face
Better turn or you won't see heaven's gate
Wanna go to war with the mormons
Wanna take a bath with the catholics
Gonna find yoself in a burning hell
Where them demons laughing
And they got you and they hit you on the slow-mo
They got you suckaz in a cell screaming oh no
And so I write with my pen
Hope you repent for your sin
Can't take your pills and bottle of gin
In case you can't get in
Don't wanna see you burn
Want to see you turn baby
And if you don't you'll be screaming like a little lady
Now do you hear me Shady
Cuz it ain't all gravy
And one day wishing
And you screaming Jesus Christ save me
Chorus
Burn baby burn
That's right we said it
If you don't turn
You better not forget it
Burn baby burn
You wanna play with God
If you don't turn
You suckaz think you hard
Burn baby burn
You know it's holy war
If you don't turn
My Father's gonna settle the score
Burn baby burn
na na now what na na now what
Check it out
Verse 2
I'm teachin cats
How to live with wife and the kids
Not doing time on the bids
Cuz son I now how it is
I spent my time in Riker's Island too
Never seen a smiling crew
They wanna slither you
You know how Riker's Island do
Dudes get in they face
Slithered and living with scars
The only dreams that they livin
Is dreamin life without bars
And son they gotta wake up
And then they eat to keep they weight up
The stress got em losing their mind
About to break up
You rappers ain't feeling me
Say no room for me in the industry
But it's clear to see
What the indy is missing is me
You rappers got the same flow
Talk about the same (moan)
About your little dough
We know how the story go
I know just what I'm doing
And who I'm doing it for
I spit it real for my kids
Just like I spit it for yours
And for the ones feelin like blowin a hole in they head
Feelin like they better off dead
Ever since you got your deal
Ever since you made your mil
Your gift was meant to heal
But still you wanna kill
Talk about your purple pills
Rolling thru your purple hills
I ain't gonna front
Cuz you phonies can't keep it real
You wanna holla back
Then get at me dog
Finally somebody got the gall
To spit it to ya'll
Lets ride out
Chorus
Verse 3
The ghetto ain't fabulous
And yet you tellin us
How you came straight from the gutter
And how we gotta bust
I've saw behind the bars
You know they life is scared
And how they bout to lose they life
By fightin on the yard
They looking thru the fence
You on the other side
On MTV you makin mils
And still you gonna lie
And you don't even know just what we goin thru
And if you do then you should come and help us make it thru
Now have you ever had a partner to die
To see their momma cry
Kids at their casket
With the tears in they eye
And if you do now tell me how they gonna make it
And when they feel they can't take it
Because they know they can't shake it
You just another big lying talking brother
Don't care about these mothers
Or if we kill each other
#1 like Nell
You can be on TRL
But if you don't switch it up
You can still go to (vroom)
Chorus
:laughing7:
Quote from: rosered on January 01, 2009, 06:10:16 AM
I could not resist the search LOL
3 Burn Baby Burn songs besides the burn disco inferno song lol ..
http://www.metrolyrics.com/burn-baby-burn-lyrics-the-dictators.html (http://www.metrolyrics.com/burn-baby-burn-lyrics-the-dictators.html)
and this by ASH
You're all I have in this teenage twilight
Your golden hair and pale blue eyes
But through all the days and the sleepless nights
We have never been satisfied
Tumbling like the leaves
We are spiraling on the breeze
Almost to the point of no return
Everything will burn baby burn
Look into my tired eyes
See someone you don't recognize
Binds that can't be untied
Oh yeah, this is slow suicide
Feelings that I can't disguise
And never will be reconciled
Oh something inside has died
You walk like your in a daze
Unresponsive eyes in a distant gaze
Like all the good times have flown away
And their memory leaves a bitter taste
Tumbling Like the leaves
We are spiraling on the breeze
Destructive love is all we have
Destructive love is all I am
Look into my tired eyes
See someone you don't recognize
Binds that can't be untied
Oh yeah, this is slow suicide
Feelings that I can't disguise
And never will be reconciled
Oh something inside has died
Vicious bitter words
Becoming more and more cruel
But you always take me back
And let me lick your wounds
Tumbling like the leaves
We are spiraling on the breeze
Almost to the point of no return
Every thing will burn baby burn
Look into my tired eyes
See someone you don't recognize
Binds that can't be untied
Oh yeah this is slow suicide
Feelings that I can't disguise
We're living in a compromise
Oh something inside has died
and this Burn Baby Burn is by L.G.Wise perhaps a Christian root?
Verse 1
I ain't afraid to say
Like you ain't afraid to hate
Wanna tell you face to face
Better turn or you won't see heaven's gate
Wanna go to war with the mormons
Wanna take a bath with the catholics
Gonna find yoself in a burning hell
Where them demons laughing
And they got you and they hit you on the slow-mo
They got you suckaz in a cell screaming oh no
And so I write with my pen
Hope you repent for your sin
Can't take your pills and bottle of gin
In case you can't get in
Don't wanna see you burn
Want to see you turn baby
And if you don't you'll be screaming like a little lady
Now do you hear me Shady
Cuz it ain't all gravy
And one day wishing
And you screaming Jesus Christ save me
Chorus
Burn baby burn
That's right we said it
If you don't turn
You better not forget it
Burn baby burn
You wanna play with God
If you don't turn
You suckaz think you hard
Burn baby burn
You know it's holy war
If you don't turn
My Father's gonna settle the score
Burn baby burn
na na now what na na now what
Check it out
Verse 2
I'm teachin cats
How to live with wife and the kids
Not doing time on the bids
Cuz son I now how it is
I spent my time in Riker's Island too
Never seen a smiling crew
They wanna slither you
You know how Riker's Island do
Dudes get in they face
Slithered and living with scars
The only dreams that they livin
Is dreamin life without bars
And son they gotta wake up
And then they eat to keep they weight up
The stress got em losing their mind
About to break up
You rappers ain't feeling me
Say no room for me in the industry
But it's clear to see
What the indy is missing is me
You rappers got the same flow
Talk about the same (moan)
About your little dough
We know how the story go
I know just what I'm doing
And who I'm doing it for
I spit it real for my kids
Just like I spit it for yours
And for the ones feelin like blowin a hole in they head
Feelin like they better off dead
Ever since you got your deal
Ever since you made your mil
Your gift was meant to heal
But still you wanna kill
Talk about your purple pills
Rolling thru your purple hills
I ain't gonna front
Cuz you phonies can't keep it real
You wanna holla back
Then get at me dog
Finally somebody got the gall
To spit it to ya'll
Lets ride out
Chorus
Verse 3
The ghetto ain't fabulous
And yet you tellin us
How you came straight from the gutter
And how we gotta bust
I've saw behind the bars
You know they life is scared
And how they bout to lose they life
By fightin on the yard
They looking thru the fence
You on the other side
On MTV you makin mils
And still you gonna lie
And you don't even know just what we goin thru
And if you do then you should come and help us make it thru
Now have you ever had a partner to die
To see their momma cry
Kids at their casket
With the tears in they eye
And if you do now tell me how they gonna make it
And when they feel they can't take it
Because they know they can't shake it
You just another big lying talking brother
Don't care about these mothers
Or if we kill each other
#1 like Nell
You can be on TRL
But if you don't switch it up
You can still go to (vroom)
Chorus
:laughing7:
XD Something told me you would end up looking it up lol.
Another Christian song that I love though is this. =D
Building 429 – You Carried Me
From the album – Iris To Iris
I've been so busy, I missed the reasons
I missed Your love, and I nearly missed it all
Still You've loved me, and You've healed me
You've given all and it brought me to Your cross
I stand only because You've given me grace to walk
Only because
Chorus
You carried me
You carried me
You carried me through it all
And I believe
Yes I believe
You'll carry me all the way home
Cause mercy covers all
Cause mercy covers all
I know the scripture, I've known the songs
I sang the words from my hollowed heart
But You've spoken softly through the storm
I've heard Your voice and I've felt the calm
I stand only because You've given me faith to walk
Only because
Chorus
I know that you love me
I'll never doubt it I can't live without it
Your mercy has found me
I am astounded, I can't live without it
You carried me
You carried me
You carried me through it all
You carried me
You carried me
And I believe
Yes I believe
You'll carry me all the way home
Cause mercy covers all
Mercy covers all
And I believe
Yeah, and I believe
Yeah, I believe
I can sing. Im actually pretty good. =P I just dont like singing to other ppl lol. And sure.
Matthew West - More
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8G3MsdQxuU
Matthew West - You Are Everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvY-7iXX1Ok&feature=related
Third Day - Call My Name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp5PZuuB3Pg&feature=related
Aaron Shust - My Savior, My God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt0WluTpFTg
Aaron Shust - Give Me Words To Speak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=468LxGJlJHc&feature=related
Building 429 - You Carried Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmH6VPfJLc4
Chris Tomlin - How Great Is Our God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0kaWLHEd4
Chris Tomlin - Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXV6HJxUebg&feature=related
Chris Tomlin - Made To Worship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p2yreN9jn8&feature=related
Chris Tomlin - Holy Is The Lord, God Almighty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EduKNYVBKH8&feature=related
Chris Tomlin - We Fall Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEswcXc-CCU
This is just to name a few. =p And yes I do really like Chris Tomlin lol. Alot of his songs. xD
:cloud9: Thanks for these, Fang! Blessings...
Nice Collection F :icon_flower:
=D No problem. Ill add more later on. ^.^
:cloud9: This is Amazing Grace by Il Divo and it's beautiful....
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YtrnB4FZ-yc
I found this song a CD a friend loaned me...believe it or not, this is sung by Glenn Campbell, who I believe is a Southern Baptist...it's a beautiful song...I'm wanting to change a line here or there and sing it myself...nice...
I can feel his love
He has touched my heart
And the spirit dove
Came and will not part
He beseeches me to listen
As He reaches me with wisdom
What He teaches me -
Is the greatest gift of all
From heaven up above
Is the love, that He gives, to all
Doesn't matter where you've been
He forgives the greatest sin
With His love, that He gives, to all
If you make one wish
Just before you sleep
Pray that all your days
Your soul, He keeps
He beseeches you to listen
As He fills your soul with wisdom
What He teaches you -
Is the greatest gift of all
From heaven up above
Is the love, that He gives, to all
Doesn't matter where you've been
He forgives the greatest sin
With the love, that He gives, to all
Peace will come your way
If you only follow
What He came to say
Is of joy, not sorrow
He beseeches you to listen
As He fills your heart with wisdom
What He teaches you -
Is that the greatest gift of all
From the heavens up above
Is the love
That He gives to all
Doesn't matter where you've been
He forgives the greatest sin
With the love, that He gives, to all
Precious love, that He gives, to all
God's blessing, James.
MY DAYSTAR
THE FOOTSTEPS I HAVE TAKEN
HAVE BROUGHT ME TO THIS PLACE
NO MATTER WHAT I'M THINKING
I'M COVERED BY YOUR GRACE
THE ROAD HAS NOT BEEN EASY
MY CHOICES AREN'T ALWAYS RIGHT
BUT YOU'VE NEVER JUDGED MY DARKNESS
YOU SIMPLY GIVE ME LIGHT
YOU ARE MY DAYSTAR
MY COURSE IS SET ON YOU
NO MATTER IF THERE IS DARKNESS
YOUR LIGHT STILL SHINES ON TRUTH
LET ME SEE IT IN YOUR KINGDOM
OF WHAT THE FATHER'S DONE
MAY I RELEASE YOUR POWER
SO YOU CAN RIGHT WHAT IS WRONG
GIVE ME UNDERSTANDING
LIFE IS NOT ABOUT ME
YOUR DEATH BROUGHT RESURRECTION
YOUR LOVE HAS SET US FREE
TEACH ME TO TRUST IN YOU
AND NOT IN WHAT I SEE
IT'S ONLY IN YOUR KINGDOM
THAT I AM TRULY FREE
listening to this song this morning and was blessed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31D2g7t5Bjs
First time I've ever run across this song on YouTube or anywhere. Trust me on this if you're on dial-up and have to leave it on the pause button loading in a separate window or tab of your computer while you do other things for a few minutes if you don't have high speed internet of any kind. This is one of my new favorites and this was honestly the first time I'd ever heard it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bBxO37LE4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bBxO37LE4)
This song plays all the time on K-love. (nationwide contemporary Christian station) I listen to the lyrics and can't help but wonder if SCC is a universalist, and if the powers that be at K-love are sympathetic or if they just don't screen their songs for "doctrinal purity."
Steven Curtis Chapman - Yours
From the album This Moment
I walk the streets of London
And notice in the faces passing by
Something that makes me stop and listen
My heart grows heavy with the cry
Where is the hope for London?
You whisper and my heart begins to soar
As I'm reminded
That every street in London is Yours
Oh, yes it is
I walk the dirt roads of Uganda
I see the scars that war has left behind
Hope like the sun is fading
They're waiting for a cure no one can find
And I hear children's voices singing
Of a God who heals and rescues and restores
And I'm reminded
That every child in Africa is Yours
Chorus:
And its all Yours, God, Yours, God
Everything is Yours
From the stars in the sky
To the depths of the ocean floor
And its all Yours, God, Yours, God
Everything is Yours
You're the Maker and Keeper, Father and Ruler of everything
It's all Yours
And I walk the sidewalks of Nashville
Like Singapore, Manila and Shanghai
I rush by the beggar's hand and the wealthy man
And everywhere I look I realize
That just like the streets of London
For every man and woman, boy and girl
All of creation
This is our Father's world
Chorus:
(4x's)
It's all Yours, God
The glory is Yours, God
All the honor is Yours, God
The power is Yours, God
The glory is Yours, God
You're the King of Kings
And Lord of Lords
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27GUZsrhxJ8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27GUZsrhxJ8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bBxO37LE4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bBxO37LE4)
This would also be an amazing Postmillenial song as well, but it fits in with a matured vision/understanding of the UR message from the Scriptures as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgWS09e_Gk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgWS09e_Gk)
Hi, I was raised Roman Catholic, please, can someone explain the term Postmillenial.
willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:23:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27GUZsrhxJ8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27GUZsrhxJ8)
:omg: Thanks for posting this song Martin... Phil Keaggy is a MASTERFUL guitarist, and the song certainly BORN from above...
...willieH :angelharp:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on June 27, 2009, 01:33:44 AMHi, I was raised Roman Catholic, please, can someone explain the term Postmillenial.
Postmillenialism is one of the beliefs about the millenium, and how we view the millenium says a lot about our belief in UR if we're a Christian Universalist. (Whatever you believe about the millenium doesn't have an ultimate baring on the outworkings of all of God's dealings with every single Creature 'cause it concerns itself with a span of time out of human history rather than "the whole plan." For some a literal 1,000 years, but for others a figurative, indefinitely long period of time.) I'm personally an Absolute Postmillenialist because I don't believe that Revelation 20 teaches a final Apostacy at the end of the millenial reign of the the saints. However, it's not a leap to still believe in UR and regular Postmillenialism if someone believes in either conversion at death or after death, or at the resurrection, for those not reached by the Gospel in this life. Regular Postmill doesn't necessarily believe every single person on the entire planet will be converted in this life time in any generation or series of generations, but believes most people in a generation or in several will be saved as we approach the resurrection. I've collected two extracts for you into one brief segment that I want to share here from an online book that's actually from a Calvinistic website, but though it's from a Calvinistic website doesn't make it invalid as a perspective on the Biblical concept of the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20. The main small booklet that's probably not even 50 pages is at this link if you decide you want to read the whole thing 'cause it's very interesting on Revelation 19 and other stuff: http://www.berith.org/essays/esch (http://www.berith.org/essays/esch) and the two brief extracts that I wanted to share from this booklet that summarize the perspective and will explain my comment about the song "Wherever We Go" by the Newsboys is as follows:
Debates on eschatology tend to be confusing. There is, of course, a vast amount of Scripture to be dealt with, and the passages to be interpreted are admittedly sometimes complex. Add to this a long history of theological debate, and it is easy to see why the subject of eschatology can be bewildering. But it doesn't have to be this way, as we shall see.
Defining the Issues
Three Positions
There are three basic positions regarding the time of the second coming of Christ. Premillennialism teaches that Christ returns before the end of history to inaugurate an earthly kingdom of a thousand years. Amillennialism denies an earthly kingdom age and says the coming of Christ is the end of history. Postmillennialism agrees with amillennialism that the coming of Christ ends history. It also agrees with premillennialism that there will be a kingdom of God on earth and in time. However, the postmillennialist believes that Christ will bring in His kingdom through the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church and then return to this world at the end of the history when God's kingdom purposes have been fully realized.
Two Theological Questions
Greg Bahnsen has narrowed the eschatological debate to two specific theological questions:
Question 1: "Is the church age inclusive of the millennium? (Alternatively: Will the end-time events of Christ's return, the resurrection, and judgment synchronize with each other?)"
To this question the premillennialist answers no. For the premillennialist the church age is distinct from the future millennium. Christ returns at the end of the church age to inaugurate the millennium. The final resurrection and judgment occur a thousand years later.
Both the amillennialist and postmillennialist answer yes. Though for different reasons, these positions agree that the Bible teaches that the final judgment, resurrection, and return of Christ synchronize with each other. The millennium for the amillennialist occurs in heaven during the church age. For the postmillennialist the millennium is the final era of the church age.
Question 2: "Will the church age (identical with or inclusive of the millennial kingdom) be a time of evident prosperity for the Gospel on earth, with the church achieving worldwide growth and influence such that Christianity becomes the general principle rather than the exception to the rule (as in previous times)?"
To this question both the premillennialist and amillennialist answer no. They agree that the Gospel will never be victorious in history. The postmillennialist answers yes. He believes that the command of Christ guarantees the victory of the Gospel.
If the postmillennialist can demonstrate that, according to the Bible, the coming of Christ is at the end of history (including the end-time events of the resurrection and judgment), he will have proved his position against the premillennialist. If he can demonstrate that the Gospel of Christ will be victorious within history, resulting in the conversion of the majority of the human race and leading to an age of unparalleled blessing, he will have proved the correctness of his position in contrast to the amillennialist.
The eschatological debate, therefore, is less complicated than it may seem at first. Just two straightforward questions: 1) Does Christ return at the end of history? 2) Will the Holy Spirit succeed in converting the majority of the human race by the Gospel? Answer these questions Biblically, and eschatology is saved from the rhetorical fog of endless theological disputation. The postmillennialist believes that the Biblical answers to these two simple but theologically decisive questions demonstrate the truth of the postmillennial position.
I have heard Christians profess to being uncommitted and unconcerned about eschatology. There are pro-millennialists: "whatever it is, I'm for it." And pan-millennialists: "it will all pan out." No doubt Christians who refer to eschatology in these terms are expressing their frustration over the acrimony which not infrequently characterizes debates over eschatology rather than their actual attitude toward the Biblical doctrine of the millennium. The fact remains, however, that it is intellectually frivolous and morally irresponsible not to seek answers about the doctrine of eschatology. To treat eschatology as an appendix to the Christian faith is to distort virtually every fundamental teaching of the Bible.
God created the world immature (cf. Gn. 1:28). The doctrine of eschatology is the Biblical teaching about God's purposes in creation and their realization through redemptive grace in spite of the rebellion of men against Him (cf. Rev. 21-22). God has sent a Second Adam to succeed where the first Adam failed through sin (Rom. 5:12ff.). As the head of a new race of man, Jesus our Lord has given us the Holy Spirit to open our hearts and lead us to faith and also, by teaching us His word, to enable us to live a life of good works for His glory (cf. Rom. 8:1-14; et al.). The Bible gives us the instruction that we need to live for the glory and praise of our heavenly Father (2 Tim. 3:16-17), so that we can fulfill the purpose for which He has created us.
To be brief, the doctrines of creation, the covenant, man, redemption, the Messiah, the work of the Holy Spirit, the inspiration of the Bible and the Christian life (IQ(J to mention only a few (IQ(J are clearly wedded to the doctrine of eschatology. What God has put together, let not man put asunder!
In my argument I have especially emphasized the covenant because it provides the structure for Biblical revelation. God created the world in covenant with Himself, with man as the covenant lord of the creation. God rules the world by His covenant from the beginning of history to the end. All of man's life, therefore, is covenantal. Understanding God's covenant is the key to understanding not only eschatology, but the whole of the Bible.
Recovering the Biblical doctrine of the covenant is vital to the recovery of the whole Christian worldview and the courage to fight for its realization in history. So long as Christians believe that history develops randomly, or that history is committed to Satan, they will not invest their hearts, their time, or their money in God's kingdom. Eventually, however, God will raise up a generation that trusts Him and will follow His commandments. They will see fulfilled the promise of Christ: "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples" (Jn 15:5-8).
I have written in these four chapters the basic arguments that persuaded me to become a postmillennialist. Whether or not the reader is persuaded, I hope that he will take the eschatological debate seriously. If we are not certain what to believe, it is incumbent upon us to continue to pray and study until we find Biblically persuasive answers to our questions. If we have reached convictions, it is our duty to live by them.
If it is really true, as Hal Lindsey and others teach, that Christ is coming soon, perhaps by the year 1981 1988 1989 1995 2000, then Christians should be in the streets witnessing. One's job future, the children's education, political concerns, investments in real estate, stocks and bonds, in short, anything that concerns life in this world should be put aside as we prepare ourselves for the imminent end. If you believe in Christ's soon return, live like it. Like James said, "faith without works is dead" (Jms. 2:17). Show your faith by your works.
Some premillennialists, of course, disagree with Hal Lindsey and the date-setting type of teacher. They believe that Christ may come any minute and so they must be prepared for His coming today. They also believe that Christ may not come today and so they must live for tomorrow. Cultural labor for God's glory may be meaningful, if Christ does not come soon, for it is a means of evangelism and a form of worship. But if Christ is coming soon, it may also be a waste of time since it takes years of education and labor to accomplish anything important in cultural evangelism. It might be good to invest money in the future since Christ may not come for another hundred years and children are important. But if Christ is coming soon, that money would be much better spent on evangelism. On the other hand . . .
Rather than go on like this, let me say it to you directly: if you believe in this type of premillennialism, you are in intellectual limbo. The best thing you can do is switch your theology. Can an eschatological doctrine that speaks with a "forked tongue" be true?
If you are an unpersuaded amillennialist, you will have to decide whether or not you agree with the date-setting premillennialists, like some amillennialists apparently do. If that is what you believe, live like the Hal Lindsey-type premillennialists. If, on the other hand, you think that history may go on for a few centuries and that there may be some real benefit in Christian cultural endeavor, live like a postmillennialist. Also, if you are theologically inclined, take the time to read the books listed in the footnotes and write a book to refute postmillennialism.
If you are persuaded of postmillennialism, then you believe that Christ has called us to build His kingdom by the power of the Holy Spirit. You should be enthusiastically pursuing distinctly Christian cultural advance either by your own efforts or by financing others who are gifted by God. You should be dedicating yourself to training the next generation to be better and wiser Christians than the present one. If you have children, make certain that you provide a Christian education for them. Political concerns and financial investments, too, are part of your responsibility as a citizen of the heavenly kingdom. Evangelism must not be less emphasized, but actually more emphasized, for the Holy Spirit will only save the world through the preaching of God's people. Rather than relegate evangelism to the few hours a week that one has time for witnessing in the streets, the postmillennialists sees evangelism in broader terms. Witnessing in the street is fine in its place. But it is more important to develop a worldview and lifestyle that are so distinctly Christian that one is evangelizing in all that he does, for "whether we eat or whether we drink," we are to do all "for the glory of God." When the non-Christians see that we live to the glory of God, they will be converted.
Whatever we believe about the millennium, we should seek to live consistently with our faith. Lukewarm, lazy Christianity is an abomination to God (Rev. 3:16). Christian debate over doctrine is not a hobby or a game, nor can it be carried on as an academic exercise. It is serious pursuit of the truth conducted in the fear of God. We are seeking an answer to the most important question we face in our daily lives: "How must I live to glorify God?"
May Jesus Christ our Lord grant understanding to His Church by the grace of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God the Father. Amen.
I want to piggy-back off of a comment from the author that I quoted above by saying, with regards to the relevance of our view of the millenium that, a belief in UR answers our question about the heart of God 'cause it brings us into an understanding of God's totally committed love. However, our view of the millenium in Scripture seems to uniquely bring into the greatest possible focus our Biblical view about "How must I live to glorify God?"
Hebrews 11:6 says that faith pleases God, but Biblically, what does that faith look like? Our perspective of that ultimately has baring on how we live our lives. A view regarding the millenium directly affects (though it's not the only thing that will, but it may be the primary thing that will affect) how we view our service to God, and whether we're nearly out of here so let the world go to Hell until we come back, or whether we seek and save the lost, destroy the works of the devil, comfort the broken hearted, and radically change the culture for the better. Postmillenialism is about fully surrendering to the Holy Spirit to totally transform this world with the Gospel into a place worth living in by teaching and preaching or living our lives according to Gospel principles with the specific intent of doing our part in making this world just a little better place to live in. There's a degree of empowerment that comes from having the right perspective on this issue of our millenial view, because it defines how we use, value, delegate, appropriate, and redeem our time.
OH MY, OH my, oh my,
Martin, i am unable to comprehend any of that.
Could you, please, put in 2 or 3 sentences?
huh? what's eschatology???
This is not a word of my Father.
This is strange to me.
Martin, I hear you saying there are those that need to be saved, and God will use those He's already saved to both bring in others and in the process, restore creation. And how we view our calling and responsibility of service is important regarding our dedication and obedience as we play our specific roles in God's PLAN. Is that the "simple man's" version? At least in part, close? 'Cause in some ways, I'm a simple man :mpardon:.
Dude, Jab, dude,
Thanks for the fewer words, but...
You lost me even worse
:mrflo: :mpardon:
God's saving people, He's using us, and He's gon'na fix things? :Whistle:
Now, the line in the Newsboys song, that says:
" It's a wonder You would even care,"
Is completely disturbing.
! It is NO wonder He cares for us. !
We are His Children, His Beautiful Children.
willieH: Hi Beloved... :hithere:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on June 27, 2009, 04:14:28 AM
huh? what's eschatology???
This is not a word of my Father.
This is strange to me.
This is theological terminology, not BIBLICAL terminology... If you don't understand THEOLOGY and its invented "terminologies", there is no big loss... :pitiful:
"
Eschatology" is the (supposed theological) study and observation of END things -- i.e. -- the "2nd Coming of
CHRIST"
CHRIST did not instruct us to be concerned with this, other than to BE ready for it... If you are following Him, and seek Him to be center and crux of your being, it doesn't matter how this world will end...
You are not of this world B-Servant as was your SAVIOR,
NOT of this world... you are (as was He) one which is concerned with the ETERNAL...
"Eschatology" is just additional THEOLOGICAL, ...CONFUSION and FEAR which attempts to peak into "tomorrow" and then offer that fear and confusion to those who delve into it... instead of encouraging you to dig deeper into the things of the SPIRIT, ...
NOW...
...willieH :cloud9:
WillieH, I think you understood what I posted even less than Beloved Servant did. What's the least bit confusion or fear about the Biblical perspective that simply says that the Holy Spirit will prevail over every single heart alive on the planet through the Preaching of the Gospel in human history as God brings this world to a close?? Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit was given to believers that He would show us things to come, and He does nothing independent of His Written Word. Either Jesus told the truth or He was a liar, simple as that. UR's not the only thing to look forward to. Romans 8 says we're being conformed to the image of His Son. Well, His Son knew it all ahead of time and who it was that would betray Him. Either St. Paul told the truth about things that are revealed to us by His Spirit in 1Corinthians 2, or he didn't. 2Peter 1 and countless other passages say that He's allowing us to be participants in the divine nature through the exceeding great and precious promises that He's given us of His grace and peace. And that and many other chapters indicate getting with the Holy Spirit to know what the game plan is, i.e., "making your calling and election sure 'cause if you do these things ennumerated in this chapter you'll never stumble, et. al."
If you completely deny free will, [as you do,] then why wouldn't it be the easier for the Holy Spirit to show us all that's going to happen as we obey Him and the Written Word according to the grace that's abounding towards us from Jesus' High Priestly Ministry as He only says and does what He receives from the Father?? I mean, if no one can alter a single comma in the plan of God -- then in your view, if the Holy Spirit's really here to teach us all things, and if Jesus was telling the truth that the Holy Spirit would show us all things, then from your absolute sovereignty perspective, it ought to be remarkably easy to know the future. Your theology necessitates going there, if the human equation is completely irrelevant to God's plans! Then through His empowering us according to His grace, a frog ought not to be able to take a crap in the rain half a world away from us without our knowing about it, as His grace is brought to completion in our lives and His Written Word gains the ascendency over our lives by the fullness of Jesus' intercessions as our High Priest. There's not a single thing that Jesus ever said that He didn't bleed over, so by His Blood, we ought to know things to come, as His Spirit and Written Word gains more and more strides in our lives in completing the Will of the Father that we'd be sanctified, spirit, soul, and body according to 1Thessalonians 5:23.
willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:
I was giving Beloved a perspective that I have adopted in my life which is founded in, and contains PEACE. And which doesn't depend upon what is to come... rather depends upon NOW and the dweller and CONTROLLER of NOW, ...my Lord and Savior...
Before I address it, this post seems to make you appear to be in a "huff"... No offense was intended toward you or anyone else who might be looking at things differently than I... :cloud9:
So may :Peace: reign between us, from this word forward -- :friendstu:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PM
WillieH, I think you understood what I posted even less than Beloved Servant did.
Hey Martin... Don't get so all up in a wrinkle, bro... I didn't even read your words... so please don't assume that I did not absorb its contents... I was just defining ESCHATOLOGY for Beloved, and giving him a heart recommendation... and OPINION... You are welcome to disagree with my OPINION... :dontknow:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PMWhat's the least bit confusion or fear about the Biblical perspective that simply says that the Holy Spirit will prevail over every single heart alive on the planet through the Preaching of the Gospel in human history as God brings this world to a close??
The biggest problem that I see with this pursuit is the varying visions that men have of these "ending" things... It is where "post-millennial, pre-millennial, post-trib, pre-trib, preterism, etc" are born...
As I see it, if we stick to serving GOD in our hearts... and bring the
GOSPEL to the world -- as
CHRIST commanded us to do, then we shall avoid the concern of "how it shall end"... and be about presenting the LIFE which shall be FOREVER, ...instead of promoting our "picture" (which seems to always contain -- FEAR and CONFUSION) to those who might be listening to us, about the "END"...
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PMJesus said that when the Holy Spirit was given to believers that He would show us things to come, and He does nothing independent of His Written Word. Either Jesus told the truth or He was a liar, simple as that.
You know me Martin... I would NEVER consider
JESUS as "lying" about anything... however... MEN misunderstand MANY of His
WORDS... and thereby those misunderstandings lead to faulty assumptions about what He said...
Which is
why we have such as ET and HELL permeating the Major portion of His "followers" and the "GOSPEL" they present to the world.
He did say that He would tell of "things to come", brother, and I am not arguing that... and as an individual, I am not led to "interpret" ending things... for to me all they do is CLOUD TODAY with grief, instead of promote the
CALM and
PEACE of
GOD which is what
GOD ...
AND...
His GOSPEL are by
HIS WORD, entitled --
Rom 15:33 -- Eph 6:15What I am saying is that we should be
MOST concerned about
TODAY and deal with IT, ...rather than WORRYINGLY gaze beyond it and lose focus of TODAY in favor of the EVIL which shall develop upon the earth and mankind, in TOMORROW...
He also said this:
Matt 6:34 --
Take therefor NO THOUGHT for the MORROW, for the MORROW shall TAKE THOUGHT for the things of ITSELF... sufficient unto the DAY is the EVIL THEREOF.You are welcome to disagree brother Martin, ...but this says to me that we must remained focused upon
TODAY, not be about worrying what shall befall us tomorrow let alone, years to come... For many of us will not LIVE beyond
TODAY anyway... :HeartThrob:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PMUR's not the only thing to look forward to. Romans 8 says we're being conformed to the image of His Son. Well, His Son knew it all ahead of time and who it was that would betray Him. Either St. Paul told the truth about things that are revealed to us by His Spirit in 1Corinthians 2, or he didn't.
Paul was teaching men the WAY of LIFE, ...he was not the "kreskin" of his day... His writings were about the LOVE and procession of that LOVE... not about proposing this or that HORROR that we might "look forward" to... :rolleye:
That
JESUS knew ahead of time, what was to come upon Him, and who would "betray" Him is not the point of our lives here (IMO)... nor is it the center of His teachings to us in the Spirit. He and His Apostles,
SIMPLY spoke of the
WAY a man...
(1) is called and brought to service (as was His Savior)
(2) can serve (as did His Savior)
(3) will en
JOY ...the glory that shall result of that service (with His Savior)
It was not about presenting FEAR to men, nor was it concerned HOW things would
END... it was about
BEGINNING...
You shall in all likelihood disagree, but we are proceeding from ETERNAL perspective, from the
END to the BEGINNING... even though it appears to us the opposite... For GOD's Declaration "began" at the END and proceeded to the BEGINNING --
Isaiah 46:10-11I have a view that the "END" entered ALL MEN with Adam... and the "BEGINNING" is the re-entry into the HOMELAND of HEAVEN... when ALL MEN are in
CHRIST... again, you are welcome to disagree with me and my thoughts... :handshake:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PM2Peter 1 and countless other passages say that He's allowing us to be participants in the divine nature through the exceeding great and precious promises that He's given us of His grace and peace. And that and many other chapters indicate getting with the Holy Spirit to know what the game plan is, i.e., "making your calling and election sure 'cause if you do these things ennumerated in this chapter you'll never stumble, et. al."
The
WAY you make your calling and election
SURE, is not DONE by YOU, Martin... It is done by
HIM due to your ELECTED submission TO HIM --
John 6:44 -- John 14:6 -- as you are CALLED and ELECTED to KNOW Him in this lifetime... by GOD, not of your own doing:
Jude 24 -- Eph 3:20 -- And even
that (keeping from falling) is FOREORDAINED to be --
Eph 2:10 -- That which is FOREORDAINED by GOD, is
DONE... no "will" other than HIS, enters in, OR ...
makes it come to pass, ..."et. al." :mwink:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PMIf you completely deny free will, [as you do,] then why wouldn't it be the easier for the Holy Spirit to show us all that's going to happen as we obey Him and the Written Word according to the grace that's abounding towards us from Jesus' High Priestly Ministry as He only says and does what He receives from the Father??
Are we herein, going to enter into a "
Free will vs Sovereignty" arguement brother Martin? If so, it is YOU which arose it in this post! And you well know that I am able to debate you on this subject... so do we now begin? -- :swordfight:
I am not GOD, and how all this life is proceeding is done according to HIM and is not subject to QUESTION, by ME --
Rom 9:20 -- or YOU!
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PMI mean, if no one can alter a single comma in the plan of God -- then in your view, if the Holy Spirit's really here to teach us all things, and if Jesus was telling the truth that the Holy Spirit would show us all things, then from your absolute sovereignty perspective, it ought to be remarkably easy to know the future.
Again, it appears you wish to engage the "sovereignty and free will" discussion which is (at least I thought, correct me if I am wrong) discouraged here at TM? :dontknow:
The Holy Spirit, REVEALS (makes known)
CHRIST (
WORD of
YHVH) and
YHVH to us... When the "future" is necessary to be "made KNOWN", then HE makes it KNOWN... :dontknow: Not because
WE wish it to be "made known"...
The
SOVEREIGNTY of GOD is that which BLINDS the JEWS... and they shall REMAIN BLIND until the FULLNESS of GENTILES is completed
IN CHRIST... THEN shall they SEE... not one moment BEFORE...
No offense brother Martin, ... but what
YOU propose as "
ought to be" is
NOT the plan... what IS, ...simply, is... and THAT
is the plan.
That some can and will PROPHESY... is part of the PLAN... and the
SOVEREIGNTY of God, decides the PLAN... not what YOU (or I) might
think that PLAN, ..."
ought to be"...
Quote from: martincisneros on June 27, 2009, 12:01:57 PMYour theology necessitates going there, if the human equation is completely irrelevant to God's plans! Then through His empowering us according to His grace, a frog ought not to be able to take a crap in the rain half a world away from us without our knowing about it, as His grace is brought to completion in our lives and His Written Word gains the ascendency over our lives by the fullness of Jesus' intercessions as our High Priest. There's not a single thing that Jesus ever said that He didn't bleed over, so by His Blood, we ought to know things to come, as His Spirit and Written Word gains more and more strides in our lives in completing the Will of the Father that we'd be sanctified, spirit, soul, and body according to 1Thessalonians 5:23.
About "THEOLOGY" -- Because YOU consider that YOU have a "theology", you proceed to assume that I have my "theology"...
FIRST --- I do not have a "theology"... I have FAITH in
JESUS CHRIST... and follow Him via that FAITH... you are welcome to name my FAITH if you so will as "theology"... but that to me is irrelevant...
SECOND --- THEOLOGY is about INTERPRETATION... I am not concerned with "interpretation"... I believe (have FAITH) as God
reveals to me, and on TENTMAKER, ...I herein share that belief... without insisting upon that belief to others... NOT calling them "wrong" and myself "right".
Those who read my words are ALWAYS welcome to disagree with them, and that disagreement does not bother me in the least... nor does my present position in study and faith mean that it is CONCLUDED to be as it is... I continue to seek daily... and KNOW that there is MUCH MORE to ...KNOW... :mpardon: ...seeking to be as a "spongelike child"... learning more and more of His GLORIOUS plan which is UNFOLDING according to HIM, not according to me...
:Peace: brother Martin...
...willieH :cloud9:
Wasn't upset at all, believe it or not. Might of accidentally pounced in my approach but not my attitude. Nothing I said was from malice or anger. If I went into details of what's been going on in my life, you'd know I'm grinning WAY TOO HARD to care about any debates right now. :happy3: God's been fulfilling very glorious promises of His Word that I've stood on by faith at least 17 years, perhaps 19, but trying to remember the precise moment He revealed some areas of Scripture He intended to fulfill in my life and when I latched on like a pit bull with something I wasn't about to let go of, even over the last couple of years when things started getting really, really serious in the spirit realm about it as harvest time in His Word for my life was arriving. :happy3: I wasn't debating free will vs. sovereignty. My point was that the certainty of things makes it all of the easier and particularly in the light of passages like the ones about the secret of the Lord being with those who fear Him (fear in the KJV sense, i.e., "reverence and awe" as you're probably aware). Just an argument against God showing us all things per His Sovereign Word necessitates uncertainty regarding the precise times and seasons which the Scriptures actually assure us that He's reserved in His own power. Well, Romans 1 says the Gospel is the power of God.
willieH: Hi brother M... :hithere:
Quote from: martincisneros on June 28, 2009, 12:03:37 AM
Wasn't upset at all, believe it or not. Might of accidentally pounced in my approach but not my attitude. Nothing I said was from malice or anger. If I went into details of what's been going on in my life, you'd know I'm grinning WAY TOO HARD to care about any debates right now. :happy3: God's been fulfilling very glorious promises of His Word that I've stood on by faith at least 17 years, perhaps 19, but trying to remember the precise moment He revealed some areas of Scripture He intended to fulfill in my life and when I latched on like a pit bull with something I wasn't about to let go of, even over the last couple of years when things started getting really, really serious in the spirit realm about it as harvest time in His Word for my life was arriving. :happy3: I wasn't debating free will vs. sovereignty. My point was that the certainty of things makes it all of the easier and particularly in the light of passages like the ones about the secret of the Lord being with those who fear Him (fear in the KJV sense, i.e., "reverence and awe" as you're probably aware). Just an argument against God showing us all things per His Sovereign Word necessitates uncertainty regarding the precise times and seasons which the Scriptures actually assure us that He's reserved in His own power. Well, Romans 1 says the Gospel is the power of God.
I'm glad you were not upset bro... :gimmefive:
:Peace: brother Martin... :friendstu:
...willieH :cloud9:
Thank you, Willlie,
And grace be with you.
I do understand, better than other people think.
Even if not your typical cup of tea on the type of music you'll normally listen to, I believe that this song would genuinely bless most every UR person that's never heard it before. Really had no idea HOW MUCH UR music I was listening to in my teens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrB0cI2o_N0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrB0cI2o_N0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdPtx1Ij9VE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdPtx1Ij9VE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-M1T_m4kc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-M1T_m4kc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Zj8IgG2Tw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Zj8IgG2Tw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bnuKRGQb1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bnuKRGQb1o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvuTQrNhHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvuTQrNhHA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQh1cjZLmUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQh1cjZLmUo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujBvIkU0dlQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujBvIkU0dlQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtM9Ry4suDw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtM9Ry4suDw)
Phil Driscoll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnCnYiFtBPs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnCnYiFtBPs)
Jeff Fenholt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QKxLy_Y2fA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QKxLy_Y2fA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeW0msip9iQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeW0msip9iQ)
What is a UR person ?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 01, 2009, 04:46:35 AM
What is a UR person ?
Someone with more than a head knowledge of, but whose very heart and expression of life has been changed by the message of the Universal Restoration. I was saying it as a synonym for Christian Universalists, in a context where many of the folks that believe in the Universal Restoration and it's truth from cover to cover in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible are uncomfortable with being called a Universalist because of the tainting of that naming of the folks with the same common interest with regards to this particular aspect of truth of the Scriptures has gotten by Church History and cultural evolution to where the word "Universalist" in the minds of many is either an automatic synonym for a Unitarian or for a Unitarian Universalist, or the UUA (i.e. Unitarian-Universalist Association).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFnZiHYp66A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFnZiHYp66A)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0XXxs5b7rg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0XXxs5b7rg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjNeqvgMryw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjNeqvgMryw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN348KzAXPM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN348KzAXPM)
Ahhhhh... music! Where would my life be without it?
Here's one that if it's not about UR I don't know of a song that is:
Daniel Amos Hound of Heaven (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHzP20QJhCs)
Check out the chorus; it's UR in a nutshell!
You can't run/ You can't hide from the Hound of Heaven/
You're free to choose/ can you refuse the seeker of souls?
As a bonus, check out this one by DA...and grasp the lyrics Half-light, Epoch and Phase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QubreIzL5xI)
And here's one that's UR minded by one of my favorite, ummm... Christians, T-Bone Burnett: River of Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzFZTBYE-kM)
And by the way has anyone ever considered the lyrics to The Who's, Bargin (http://www.songlyrics.com/the-who/bargain-lyrics/) or Rush's Free Will (http://www.songlyrics.com/rush/freewill-lyrics/) or Huey Lewis and The News' Power of Love (http://www.songlyrics.com/huey-lewis-the-news/the-power-of-love-lyrics/) in a 'Christian' context?
One more: A song that made me cry for the realization when I first heard it for the truth Rodger Daltrey sings about: The Who's Real Good Looking Boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNP2jxAdpk8&feature=related).
Would that we could all see ourselves, through love, in this way despite what we are told about ourselves... And what we tell ourselves.
Jesus reiterated that the second greatest commandment was a response to the first and that it was that we should love our neighbour as we love ourselves.
So, don't you gotta love yourself, first?
And where does the ability to do that come from?
Be good!