serpent seed doctrine - ever heard of?

[sven]

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/683035-jesus-willing-some-shall-perish.html

I came about that doctrine here, have you ever heard of it? the reasoning goes the following, some humans are seed of the serpent, or devil, God hates them and predestinated them to hell or something like that...

is this doctrine a new invention or does it exist already for a while?

[WhiteWings]

I've seen the doctrine before. Perhaps there are different variations but "some humans" should be "many humans".
According to that doctrine Eve had sex with the serpent. You can imagine if the serpent seed is introduced so early in the bloodline it's not just a few affected. More likely (almost) all
I would say another doctrine that makes God a failure and satan the big winner.
Another fantasy of 'the elect'.

[sven]

it's a doctrine of the Calvinists, isn't it?

[chuckt]

it's a doctrine of the Calvinists, isn't it?

Not all calvinist but some, there are extremes in all groups.

chuckt

[SQ]

I have heard that doctrine, supposedly Cain and Abel was twins Abel was the seed of Adam and Eve, Cain was the seed of the serpent.
There are some that believe the serpent wasn't really a serpent but had sex with Eve and this produced Cain.
My thoughts for what it is worth is that Cain inherited genes less desirable than Abel, same father.

[WhiteWings]

There are some that believe the serpent wasn't really a serpent

nuchush means: snake, sorcery, foretelling the future (divination), calculating, sly, cunning, shrewd and guileful
So could mean a sorceror

[SQ]

There are some that believe the serpent wasn't really a serpent

nuchush means: snake, sorcery, foretelling the future (divination), calculating, sly, cunning, shrewd and guileful
So could mean a sorceror

Thanks that makes sense.

[chuckt]

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity [fn] that is in Christ.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?" 


before the serpent was curesed HE was the advisary, a liar, after the curse, he remained the advisary and liar, HE was and is still the same as from the beginning.

The MIND has ALWAYS been the battle ground.


intersting that naked and subtil come from the same word.

aruwm...subtil

naked = from H6191 (in its original sense)


check it out.

chuckt

[rosered]

    Chuck   good one  :thumbsup:

  the serpent seed is  a false assumption   to me SQ by the cain and Abel  verses

  when Jesus told those  you are of your father the devil  , to me it was a unclean spirit  that they possessed by their fruits   , you will know them   the tree of knowledge of good and evil , we are to make the tree good and fruit good/ born again  or corrupt as in Adam  two seeds  corruptible /prone to decay and rot , loss   and incorruptible /pure , one of a kind, holy

   God told Cain that   if he done well he would be accepted
  and sin lies at the door and his desire was for him , but  God told Cain to rule over it /sin  that maybe  why Paul in the NT says he kept his body under subjection /rule over it , that after he preached to other   could be a castaway
  Cain was given the same chance as Abel  by these verses  in  Gen 4 

but they had different  callings / duty
  abel of the sheep and Cain tiller  of the ground , same as his father Adam by the sweat of his brow would he  eat bread and God spoke this Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 4
5but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. 6The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

Cain = "possession" a spear  he slew his brother  abel= breath  vanity meadow 
  cain 1) eldest son of Adam and Eve and the first murderer having murdered his brother Abel

n pr gent
Kenite = "smiths"

2) the tribe from which the father-in-law of Moses was a member and which lived in the area between southern Palestine and the mountains of Sinai

  this to me is when sin entered his heart and he acted on it out of anger /wrath Jam 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.     


  This is a bit all over the place ,  :mblush:

[SPOKENFOR]

Yes, I heard of this just the past year. I know someone who believes this and they also believe that the LOF is a place that God will destroy some people, not purify them.

[noname]

whatever you believe or not, Cain is never mentioned in Adam's geneaology lineage...Adams' lineage goes through Seth
that makes me wonder, to say the least....

[WhiteWings]

whatever you believe or not, Cain is never mentioned in Adam's geneaology lineage...Adams' lineage goes through Seth
that makes me wonder, to say the least....

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

For me the verse pretty much says Adam was the father of Cain.


Few alternative translations:

LXE Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and brought forth Cain and said, I have gained a man through God.

NAS Genesis 4:1 Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."

NET Genesis 4:1 Now the man had marital relations with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. Then she said, "I have created a man just as the LORD did!"

YLT Genesis 4:1 And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceiveth and beareth Cain, and saith, 'I have gotten a man by Jehovah;'

[WhiteWings]

Isn't the serpent seed doctrine to Lilith (the skreech owl)?

[chuckt]

not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

cain was a ground tiller = carnal.

from the very beginning we see the carnal and the spiritual, the earthly and the heavenky, the older persecuting the younger.

its for us an ensample to us.

peace
euty

[rosered]

not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

cain was a ground tiller = carnal.

from the very beginning we see the carnal and the spiritual, the earthly and the heavenky, the older persecuting the younger.

its for us an ensample to us.

peace
euty

right on Euty , it was his works that were judged
  note in many places it is the works judged NOT  the person


works Strong's G2041 - ergon

1) business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

  dead works verses  live ones  :winkgrin:



Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 


1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.



Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 

[WhiteWings]

Chuckt, RoseY,

I know earth is some kinda synonym for death.
OTOH I see many harvesting being done in the Bible. A good example is The Sower parable. I don't think it's implying Jesus is the/a sower of death.

Speaking of works... I thought Abel offered quality stuff to God (firstlings) and Cain just offered fruits. (not of the best quality)
Why that makes him a (potential) murderer escapes me I have to add.

[SQ]

I believe possibly what made Cain a murder of his brother was jealousy.
Cain was selfish he didn't want to give his best to God where Abel was happy to give his best offerings.
Cain had a sinful heart from the start.
This is just my thoughts.

[chuckt]

I believe possibly what made Cain a murder of his brother was jealousy.
Cain was selfish he didn't want to give his best to God where Abel was happy to give his best offerings.
Cain had a sinful heart from the start.
This is just my thoughts.

yes but simple put it was carnality, in his mind carnality would produce this  jealousy that being the ""spirit"" OF HIM. producing the works of death.



woot.

God bless yall and thanks

chuckt/euty

[rosered]

 
  Yepper Carnality /flesh/dust
  Adams was  dust/flesh   you are and  dust you shall return 
WW  the Lord plants life/seeds in the dust and waters with His doctrine/teaching

  we also know by scriptures that  dust is the serpents food what it  survives on


Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:  

Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. 
Mic 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee. 

Deu 32:24 [They shall be] burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. 

to me it is a type of carnal thinking that destroys and  thrives on  our fleshly thoughts that is an emnity against the Spiritual Law of mercy and grace  and righteous  judgment  / holy thinking and thoughts ........

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 

Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. 


Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 

an old serpent that eats dust /flesh of Adam of the earth
   :icon_flower:

[chuckt]

  Yepper Carnality /flesh/dust
  Adams was  dust/flesh   you are and  dust you shall return 
WW  the Lord plants life/seeds in the dust and waters with His

ground to powder mixed with living water made a new lump  :bgdance:

[rosered]

  Yepper Carnality /flesh/dust
  Adams was  dust/flesh   you are and  dust you shall return 
WW  the Lord plants life/seeds in the dust and waters with His

ground to powder mixed with living water made a new lump  :bgdance:

good one Chuckt  :thumbsup:
  scattered abroad  :2c:

Nah 3:18 Thy shepherds slumber, O king of Assyria: thy nobles shall dwell [in the dust]: thy people is scattered upon the mountains, and no man gathereth [them]. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: This contains some understanding that He gave me last week, that I already posted, but it struck me it was applicable in this thread too.........

The state of the tongue, is that which has worms in it. It is what will eventually speak us into walking in the outer court realm PERMANENTLY (as in not a firstfruits of this dispensation, but raised up later), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, seeing what we could have had, if only we had not loved our own lives/ways more than His, ie. if you are lukewarm I will spit you out of My mouth.

The tongue is an unruly member and no man can tame it. We eat of the fruit of our own lips; we are judged by our own wickedness. Out of the abundance (harvest term) of the heart, the mouth speaks. This is how it works.

Evil spirit = a breath. It speaks as a thought to us, which is why the first article of our armor is the HELMET of salvation. If we take that thought/breath it "FALLS" from our "heaven/mind", ie. turns into a seed in our flesh/heart/soul. This is why we are told to take every THOUGHT into captivity of the mind of Christ.

Our soul is as a woman's womb; it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. If we continue to water that seed (give it life for expression) it will grow, and produce fruit in our lives, eventually. This is why hate is as the sin of murder; hate is the seed, but murder is the fruit. That which is not visible and inward, becomes visible and an outward manifestation/murder.

When the Lord said He beheld Satan (as a collective of evil, that which is in opposition to the mind of Christ) fall from heaven as lightning; He was saying Satan appeared in our heavens (minds) as revelation appears ie. like lightning, but as carnal knowledge (= our ways), and "he" fell to the earth/our wombs, as seed, as we accepted his thoughts.

Seed time and harvest is an unbreakable principle of the Kingdom, whether or not someone is aware of it or not, does not matter; sowing and reaping continue. The good news is, as we seek His face/nature with our whole heart, it is counted as entering into His rest, though we may not "live" there yet, in full experience. And in the 7th year (day) no field was to be planted, ie. it RESTED.

What that means is, in the 7th day (day is like a THOUSAND YEARS), there was a "crop failure", ordained by God. So as we press in to receive more and more of our true Sabbath which is Christ, that seed that was planted by the enemy, will also have a "crop failure" ordained by God, until those that are seeking His face, will say; the prince of this world (prince of the powers of the AIR/breath) cometh, but he hath nothing in me.

And the last enemy to be overcome is DEATH = glorified body that had a "crop failure", where the tares are concerned. Sin, when it hath conceived, bringeth forth death. But sin, is destined to have a "crop failure", as the mind of Christ, our REST/Sabbath, claims what is His, and shall appear suddenly in His temple, whose temple we are. That which is not visible/Christ in us the hope of glory, becomes visible, ie. the glory manifested outwardly = a HARVEST.

This principle is why the serpent has grown to be a dragon by the end of times/days, ie. he was fed by the imaginations of men's minds/hearts, which God said only devises wickedness continually. How much of the fire of God (Gehenna) do we need to burn up that which we have had planted by agreement/covenant with the enemy of our souls? Mshock Blessings....

[chuckt]

cardinal,

that sounds like a bunch of goobly gook.........JUST KIDDING  :winkgrin:

you said:

Our soul is as a woman's womb; it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. If we continue to water that seed (give it life for expression) it will grow, and produce fruit in our lives, eventually. This is why hate is as the sin of murder; hate is the seed, but murder is the fruit. That which is not visible and inward, becomes visible and an outward manifestation/murder.

this rings very true to me, and hits home, wont share why, but the renewing of the mind comes to the forfront.

the battle is definatly in the mind, which i beleive ARE the high places/heavenlies so to speak.

The new name written IN our foreheads, foreheads=mind.

thanks
chuckt

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :grin:  :laughing7:  :winkgrin:

[Molly]

Chuckt, RoseY,

I know earth is some kinda synonym for death.
OTOH I see many harvesting being done in the Bible. A good example is The Sower parable. I don't think it's implying Jesus is the/a sower of death.

Speaking of works... I thought Abel offered quality stuff to God (firstlings) and Cain just offered fruits. (not of the best quality)
Why that makes him a (potential) murderer escapes me I have to add.

Cain was a farmer like Adam (but not a priest).  I can just see him tilling the fields, working hard, sweat of his brow and all that, and then offering the fruits of his hard work to God.

When it was rejected, he felt rejected.   His brother's sacrifice was a bit easier to come by, after all, what did Abel do?  Hang out in the fields all day, playing his lyre?  For the most part, watching over sheep all day is pretty easy work, since they don't do much and always follow the leader. 

Which was the point, really, but Cain missed it, and then got angry when he decided his good work was rejected, and then hated his righteous brother who seemed to reap rewards without working as hard, and this anger and jealousy  boiled over to murder.

This is a hard lesson we learn from Cain, and not an intuitive one.  Cain is evil before he murders Abel.  Why?

Because he thinks his own work is of some value to God, whereas all we have to offer God of value is Christ.


1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.