No one can fully understand the bible very well.

[Cardinal]

willieH: Hi brother N... :hithere:

For me the Bible is many, many things.  The natural reasoning of any man can take any book and find differences of interpretations

So true brother... Heck, ...a car accident can be viewed from witnesses on opposing street corners and get 2 completely different observations of it...  Same accident, same time, same 2 cars... TWO VERSIONS of it...

If this is done in EYE WITNESS, then it surely can take place as we read the WORD with finite comprehension, inhibited by the "earthly individuals" we each are...  :dontknow:

It takes divine intervention and inspiration to bring harmony to 2 hearts, let alone hundreds, thousand or millions!

. . . And there are those who "have" indeed taken the Bible so literally that they expect every issue in my life and in every persons life on this earth, is addressed in Scripture in some form or another.  I see Scripture more as "one" ingredient necessary for a life to flourish.  If I take the Bible only for what it literally says, I will still die of spiritual starvation.  I believe there needs to be a blending, a mixture of the Spirit folded into it . . .it's not what I interpret, or what I conclude, it's what God reveals that makes all the difference in the world.  And God reveals different things to different people . . .which is why I've always stated, it's not about who's right or who's wrong .  .but who's "one".

Great words bro... I gave up a few years ago (and SO glad that I did), on the "right--wrong" battle...  God told me that we are either VEILED or REVEALED, and that HE is the ONLY ONE who is RIGHT...  And it is HE which decides which of us, and when, we shall join Him...

As HUMILITY is born in our hearts, in SUBMISSION to Him... the LIGHT creeps into the areas of the darkness of our hearts (which are myriad)... and ENLIGHTENS us... And even then, when we have been given, LIGHT... the only reaction that should happen is THANKFULNESS and PRAYER... that others might be so blessed as to see... instead of insisting yourself upon them...

Share where you are at present, knowing that much of what you share, is NOT enlightened, ...just "where you are" at present...

You can't teach someone an experience.  They must go through it themselves.  And UR, for me . . . along with so many other characteristics of Christ . . .it's not a doctrine or a belief, it's an experience that I've found myself having through my personal walk in Christ.  And my use and my opinion of the Bible has evolved in that experience as well.

:iagree:  You are on a roll dear brother!  :Urock:

Scripture for me, aligns priorities in such a way that most of the questions that many demand you prove with chapter and verse, are things of very little importance.  You can't defend an experience.  You went through it, it's now a part of you, and that's that.  There's no "proving" or "defending".  I am who I am because I believe that Christ is in me doing the work of transforming me both to "want" to, and to "do" what is pleasing to the Lord.

:goodone:  Nathan... did you take a "LIGHT" shower this morning?  :laughing7:

And just because a church doesn't think a certain way of dressing, talking, living isn't pleasing to the Lord, does not actually mean that God doesn't see me as pleasing.  The only thing I have that will ever please God is my faith . . .the fact that I believe and live according to what can not be seen, is all that is needed to please the Father . . .how cool is that!!

Amen...  :happyclap:  what an inspiring post bro...  :goodpost:

...willieH  :cloud9:

:cloud9: Just wanted to chime in my Amen, to both of your writings here........ :thumbsup: Blessings...

[preistsplace]

as for the numbers thing reference to exodous 16 where there is a more complete description of the manna. It says that on the sixth day they gathered double because it wasnt permitted on the second day. Also about the earth being flat the four winds at the four corners. In Hebrew this is supposed to have some thing to do with the wingtips of a bird, for us it is better if we use the as compass points. One other thing I will point out is that even being a universalist it is important that we maintain our faith in Christ and that we are very careful. There are many people who are searching for a way to discredit the bible under the guise of athiesm. They say that God doesnt exist and then attack Christians belief system. Alot of them are afraid of ET, ,afraid that God is an angry vengeful God. Many years ago when I was an athiest I began trying to disprove Christianity, for the same reason my veiw of God Left me no other choice. Oh and about the against us forus thing in the New Testament , check the context. In one instance Jesus is talking to people about following him. In the other he is talking to his disciples about other people who were casting out demons in Jesus' name. God Bless and Keep you. Oh and one more thing God will ansewer you when you question him,we just gotta be ready to listen

[preistsplace]

not even you as well, this is why I am tired of people said they understand the bible, no they don't, however I do love God but I hate faker, reason why? I will tell you why:

When people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does

You don't love God, God make you love him
You don't worship him, God make you worship him
You cannot yell at God with bad word unless God make you said it

In other word, God control human race through his pleasure, I begining to question the bible......

Here my question:

If Isa 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus as Messiah, it failed, because
     he was never called Immanuel.
MyMy ansewer  Matthew 1:23
God will rescue his faithful from the lions (Ps 35:17).  Many
     martyrs were killed by lions.
Lions are used as a metaphor to describe Davids Enimies
The name "Babel" does not come from the Hebrew word
     balbal, "confuse," but from Babylonian bab-
     ili, "gate of God," which is a translation of the
     original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra (Gen 11:9).
For the Hebrews confusion, for the Babylonians Gen 11:6 ( god talks about confusing them because anything would be possible if they were to continue speaking the same language.
The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num
     15:32-34.
ansewered in previous post
There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves
     opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion
     (Matt 27:52-53).

Earth does not move (Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 1 Chr 16:30).
does not move or will not be moved off of its natural course David also said that he wouldn't be moved, but I dont think he was litterally standing still
Earth is flat (these verses were used for centuries by the church
     to prove this:   Ps 93:1, Jer 10:13, Dan 4:10-11, Zech 9:10,
     Matt 4:8, Rev 1:7).
Maybe the term in Hebrew points to the points of a compass
God knows everything; he is "omniscient" (Ps 139:1-6, Prov 15:3,
     5:21, Job 26:6, 34:21, Isa 44:7, Ezek 11:5, Matt 12:25, John
     2:24, Rom 1:20). But:  Samuel has to tell God what the
     people said (1 Sam 8:21).  God doesn't know where Adam is
     (Gen 3:8-9).  God doesn't know which houses in Egypt contain
     Israelites; he needs to see blood on the doorpost (Ex
     12:13).  God has to test Israel for 40 years to find out if
     they would keep his commandments (Deut 8:2).  God is
     forgetful and must be reminded of his promises, e.g. of his
     promise to Noah (Gen 9:15-16).
Just because God knows doesn't mean that he doesnt ask.
The rainbow I believe is more about comforting Noah, and not reminding God
God is everywhere, he is "omnipresent" (Ps 139:7, Prov 15:3, Jer
     23:23,24, 1 Kings 8:27, Job 23:9, 26, 28, Acts 17:27).  But:
     he is only in one place at a time: he walked in the Garden
     (Gen 3:8); he came down to see the Tower (Gen 11:5); he
     "went his way" (Gen 18:33); Gen 46:4; Ex 3:4, "Here I am";
     Exodus passim, travelling with Israelites; Num 23:15, Job
     1:12, Jonah 1:3; he "walks about" in the Israelite camp,
     Deut 23:12-14; he dwells in the Temple, OT passim; he
     "dwells in Zion" (Joel 3:21); he will sit in the Valley of
     Jehoshaphat to judge the heathen (Joel 3:12); sometimes he
     goes from one place to another riding a cherub. Ps 18:10, 2
     Sam 22:11.  Sometimes God hides himself (Isa 45:15).
He is also Almighty so he can do more than one thing at a time
God tempts Abraham (Gen 22:1) and can lead us into temptation
     (Matt 6:13; contra:  James 1:13).
the LORD allows us to be tempted, Joc chapter 1

[preistsplace]

willieH: Hi PP...  :cloud9:

I wish to make a comment about the link you posted below...

And give warning to those who might "check it out".  :sigh:

Please know that I am NOT assuming you are, but must ask...

Are YOU in affiliation with these people Priestsplace? And a proponent of theirs?  Seeking to bring their positions here?  -- Just curious... for if you are, you may just find me, a thorn in your side @ TM...

These are great areas to study and also to investigate the original language. About the Earth being flat there is some information on this subject at http://www.godandscience.org/ and probably information about some of your other questions. Also realize that many of our modern translations have been contaminated by mistranslation.

I just spent a few weeks at this site, involved with their discussion forum... These people are the very most NARROW MINDED and especially IMPATIENT souls, ...that I have encountered since my first experience with CARM and Matt Slick...

I would therefore note to all, and recommend that anything on this site is subject to question. (even though I was not there long enough to research their site)...

In discussion, they prove themselves with theological references instead of the WORD...

And are unresponsive to Biblical questioning... Ignoring, and instead of responding to questions of their "knowledge"... barking Orthodoxy... as an answer, claiming that Universalists have created their own "God"... and are in need of repentence for it... :rolleye:  Calling Biblical observations made of UR, as misbehavior... because it questions their Orthodox positions...

And ALL references they used in my encounters with them in discussion were parroted "Biblical" HEARSAY at best...  Avoiding answering my questions of them often.

They propose "evidence" but their "evidence" is not rooted in the WORD, rather in their own pious minds, and in the "theological" sources they quote... (such as the "Moody Handbook of Theology")

I have walked with the Lord for 33+ years... and one of their "Board adminstrators" ("BW") had the audacity to urge me to say the "sinner's prayer", saying that I "needed CHRIST" and that the CHRIST which I believe in, is a creation of UNIVERSALISM...

:Yeahright:

If anyone chooses to investigate this site...

See thread in their "Abberent Christianity" forum -- thread entitled: "Christian Universalism"... and read a little of the dialogue between "BW" (board admin), and myself (willieH)... As well as "Jlay" and myself...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Willie H I am not suggesting any of their veiws or hypocrisy. How ever at that sight I have seen a pretty reasonable explanation for the Earth being flat. Nor do I believe that it is right and godly to put anyone on trial for their beliefs. I do believe that we need to be getting as much information as we can from as many places as possible to be able to ansewer complex questions.  I am truly sorry if this offended you in any way.
It is very hard to know where anyone who is here is from and who might have attacked them in the past.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi P-P...  :cloud9:

Just saw this reply today...  :mblush: sorry for being so slooooooooooooooooow...  :blush:

willieH: Hi PP...  :cloud9:

I wish to make a comment about the link you posted below...

And give warning to those who might "check it out".  :sigh:

Please know that I am NOT assuming you are, but must ask...

Are YOU in affiliation with these people Priestsplace? And a proponent of theirs?  Seeking to bring their positions here?  -- Just curious... for if you are, you may just find me, a thorn in your side @ TM...

These are great areas to study and also to investigate the original language. About the Earth being flat there is some information on this subject at http://www.godandscience.org/ and probably information about some of your other questions. Also realize that many of our modern translations have been contaminated by mistranslation.

I just spent a few weeks at this site, involved with their discussion forum... These people are the very most NARROW MINDED and especially IMPATIENT souls, ...that I have encountered since my first experience with CARM and Matt Slick...

I would therefore note to all, and recommend that anything on this site is subject to question. (even though I was not there long enough to research their site)...

In discussion, they prove themselves with theological references instead of the WORD...

And are unresponsive to Biblical questioning... Ignoring, and instead of responding to questions of their "knowledge"... barking Orthodoxy... as an answer, claiming that Universalists have created their own "God"... and are in need of repentence for it... :rolleye:  Calling Biblical observations made of UR, as misbehavior... because it questions their Orthodox positions...

And ALL references they used in my encounters with them in discussion were parroted "Biblical" HEARSAY at best...  Avoiding answering my questions of them often.

They propose "evidence" but their "evidence" is not rooted in the WORD, rather in their own pious minds, and in the "theological" sources they quote... (such as the "Moody Handbook of Theology")

I have walked with the Lord for 33+ years... and one of their "Board adminstrators" ("BW") had the audacity to urge me to say the "sinner's prayer", saying that I "needed CHRIST" and that the CHRIST which I believe in, is a creation of UNIVERSALISM...

:Yeahright:

If anyone chooses to investigate this site...

See thread in their "Abberent Christianity" forum -- thread entitled: "Christian Universalism"... and read a little of the dialogue between "BW" (board admin), and myself (willieH)... As well as "Jlay" and myself...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Willie H I am not suggesting any of their veiws or hypocrisy. How ever at that sight I have seen a pretty reasonable explanation for the Earth being flat. Nor do I believe that it is right and godly to put anyone on trial for their beliefs. I do believe that we need to be getting as much information as we can from as many places as possible to be able to ansewer complex questions.  I am truly sorry if this offended you in any way.

Are you affiliated with them P-P?

I don't worry about such sites... but when I have had EXPERIENCE with a site, I will be informing my brothers and sisters here at TM, of the EXPERIENCE...

It is very hard to know where anyone who is here is from and who might have attacked them in the past.

Again, this sounds as if you are affiliated with them.  :dontknow:

I am not upset with you in the least brother...  :friendstu:

And I don't have anything against the people at this site...  But I do have a problem with their MOD staff which stifles any disagreements with either bans or threats to ban... instead of answering with sound replies which are Scripturally based and supported.  :sigh:

...willieH  :happygrin: