not even you as well, this is why I am tired of people said they understand the bible, no they don't, however I do love God but I hate faker, reason why? I will tell you why:
When people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does
You don't love God, God make you love him
You don't worship him, God make you worship him
You cannot yell at God with bad word unless God make you said it
In other word, God control human race through his pleasure, I begining to question the bible......
Here my question:
If Isa 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus as Messiah, it failed, because
he was never called Immanuel.
God will rescue his faithful from the lions (Ps 35:17). Many
martyrs were killed by lions.
The name "Babel" does not come from the Hebrew word
balbal, "confuse," but from Babylonian bab-
ili, "gate of God," which is a translation of the
original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra (Gen 11:9).
The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num
15:32-34.
There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves
opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion
(Matt 27:52-53).
Earth does not move (Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 1 Chr 16:30).
Earth is flat (these verses were used for centuries by the church
to prove this: Ps 93:1, Jer 10:13, Dan 4:10-11, Zech 9:10,
Matt 4:8, Rev 1:7).
God knows everything; he is "omniscient" (Ps 139:1-6, Prov 15:3,
5:21, Job 26:6, 34:21, Isa 44:7, Ezek 11:5, Matt 12:25, John
2:24, Rom 1:20). But: Samuel has to tell God what the
people said (1 Sam 8:21). God doesn't know where Adam is
(Gen 3:8-9). God doesn't know which houses in Egypt contain
Israelites; he needs to see blood on the doorpost (Ex
12:13). God has to test Israel for 40 years to find out if
they would keep his commandments (Deut 8:2). God is
forgetful and must be reminded of his promises, e.g. of his
promise to Noah (Gen 9:15-16).
God is everywhere, he is "omnipresent" (Ps 139:7, Prov 15:3, Jer
23:23,24, 1 Kings 8:27, Job 23:9, 26, 28, Acts 17:27). But:
he is only in one place at a time: he walked in the Garden
(Gen 3:8); he came down to see the Tower (Gen 11:5); he
"went his way" (Gen 18:33); Gen 46:4; Ex 3:4, "Here I am";
Exodus passim, travelling with Israelites; Num 23:15, Job
1:12, Jonah 1:3; he "walks about" in the Israelite camp,
Deut 23:12-14; he dwells in the Temple, OT passim; he
"dwells in Zion" (Joel 3:21); he will sit in the Valley of
Jehoshaphat to judge the heathen (Joel 3:12); sometimes he
goes from one place to another riding a cherub. Ps 18:10, 2
Sam 22:11. Sometimes God hides himself (Isa 45:15).
God tempts Abraham (Gen 22:1) and can lead us into temptation
(Matt 6:13; contra: James 1:13).
God will send delusion so that the people will believe a lie, so
that they might be damned (2 Thess 2:11-12, Isa 6:9-12; see
also Mk 4:12, saying that Jesus speaks in parables lest the
people understand and repent, and Matt 11:25, where Jesus
thanks God that the truth has been hidden from the wise).
The purpose of the Law is to increase sin, which increases
God's grace (Rom 5:20, Rom 7).
God can do evil (Ex 32:14, Amos 3:6, Job 42:11).
It was Moses' idea to appoint judges (Deut 1:9-17). It was
Jethro's idea (Ex 18:1-27).
Sisera was sleeping when he was killed, says Judg 4:21. He was
standing, says Judg 5:25-27.
Who ordered the numbering of Israel? God, says 2 Sam 24:1; Sa-
tan, says 1 Chron 21:1; God, says Num 26:1-2.
Herod believed John had risen from the dead (Mark 6:16). Herod
did not believe this (Luke 9:7).
Touching the resurrected Jesus: The two Marys touch him at his
first appearance to them, says Matt 28:9. Thomas touches
him a week later, says John 20:27. No one can touch him
until he has ascended to heaven, says John 20:17.
Jesus founds his church on Peter and gives him the keys of the
kingdom (Matt 16:18). But James seems to be in charge (Acts
15:1-21). Mark, Luke and John seem to know nothing of
Peter's special position, even though tradition says that
Mark was secretary to Peter.
For or against Jesus: Matt 12:30 says if you are not for him,
you are against him. Mark 9:40 says if you are not against
him, you are for him. (These are contradictory as to the
indifferent or undecided.)
Is temptation a good thing? No, say Matt 6:13, Luke 11:4. Yes,
says James 1:2
Prayer: Is it always effective? Yes, if you ask in faith (Matt
21:22 and Mark 11:24). Or if you ask in Jesus' name (John
14:4 and 16:23). Ask, and it will be given (Matt 7:7-8,
Luke 11:9-10). Yes, if you are a righteous man or keeping
the commandments (Prov 15:29, James 5:16, 1 John 3:22,
5:14). But none are righteous (Rom 3:10)). Yes, if two
believers ask together (Matt 18:19. Not always (Jer
7:16, 11:14, Lam 3:44, Ps 10:1, 22:1-2, Isa 1:15, Mic 3:4, John
7:34). Prayer must not be long (Matt 23:14). Only if it
you request something that God wants anyway (1 John 5:14-15,
which implies that your prayer has no effect on the
outcome). Many who ask to enter the kingdom will be refused
(Luke 13:24).
the list goes on and on, I still love God but I begining to wonder whatever the bible is so messed up and don't tell me otherwise.
Is there any answer someone can give you that you'd be willing to accept? Seems like there is a resistance coming from you . . .maybe it's just me.
Quote from: IceDash on April 16, 2009, 10:28:27 PM
When people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does
Or the devil is used as a tool?
Quote from: Nathan on April 16, 2009, 10:47:55 PM
Is there any answer someone can give you that you'd be willing to accept? Seems like there is a resistance coming from you . . .maybe it's just me.
This is how I see coming from a guy who said "resistance coming from you"
Unbelivable...you not even reading my question and just post that?
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 16, 2009, 10:54:11 PM
Quote from: IceDash on April 16, 2009, 10:28:27 PM
When people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does
Or the devil is used as a tool?
no, IT CALLED THE LORD'S PRAYER! It about him! Not satan! It mean telling God don't get us into temptition, God does tempt and please read the question before posting answer.
more questions and don't tell me God know better than us: this one doesn't make sense at all:
AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
RO 9:11-13 God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before their birth.
AC 16:6 The Holy Spirit forbids preaching in Asia.
AC 19:8-10 Paul preaches in Asia anyway.
AC 20:35 Quotes Jesus as having said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (No such statement of Jesus is found elsewhere in the Bible.)
RO 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law.
RO 4:15 Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin).
1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).
2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.
JN 13:36 Peter asks Jesus where he is going.
JN 14:5 Thomas does the same.
JN 16:5 Jesus says that none of them have asked him where he is going.
JN 17:12 Mentions a "son of perdition" as appearing in scripture (meaning the OT).
(Note: There is no "son of perdition" mentioned in the OT.)
JN 12:31 The Devil is the ruler (or "prince") of this world.
1CO 10:26, RE 1:5 Jesus is the ruler of kings--the earth is his.
JN 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
JN 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.
LK 18:9-14 Do not boast of your virtue.
RO 11:20, 1PE 5:5 Do not be proud.
RO 15:17, 2CO 1:12, HE 3:6, 2CO 2:14, 5:12, 11:17 Paul boasts of his faith and says that one should be proud of it.
LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.
MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.
So how do you explain this confusing verse everytime I read it, it doesn't make sense unless God is sending us strong delusion, in other word: the bible?
Cool down IceDash. Or you will melt :laughing7:
QuoteIT CALLED THE LORD'S PRAYER! It about him! Not satan!
Where did I say it's a prayer for/about satan?
QuoteWhen people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does
You say:
God tempts people. Not satan/devil. Yes?
How does God tempt?
I just suggested God (possibly) tempts by using/controling satan as a tool.
Quoteplease read the question before posting answer.
Maybe I did read the question but gave the wrong answer in your opinion.
QuoteEarth does not move (Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 1 Chr 16:30).
Fixed orbit perhaps...
QuoteHerod believed John had risen from the dead (Mark 6:16). Herod
did not believe this (Luke 9:7).
I don't read those verses that way.
I am relaxed but angry at people who claim God talked to them or the holy spirit talk to them doesn't make sense, unless it a human's wishful thinking.
By the way if God use satan as a tool, that mean God use satan for his own benefit doesn't add it up.
here more question:
GE 3:16, CO 11:3-9, EP 5:22-24, CN 3:18, TS 2:5, 1PE 3:1-6 The husband is to rule over his wife. Wives are to be subject to their husbands even when the husband is disobedient to God. Man is the image and glory of God, while woman is the glory of man. Man was not created for woman but woman for man.
EX 20:4 We are not to make likenesses of anything. (Note: This seems to preclude all photographs, paintings, statues, etc.)
this one confuse the heck outta me: MT 5:22 Do not get angry. Anger is a sin.
If that true, and the bible said God never sin, he does get angry! that's alot sin unaccount for!
MT 5:18-19 The OT law is to remain in effect until heaven and earth pass away. That's mean we didn't do the sabbath day, bad news for us.
MK 10:29, LK 18:29 A man who leaves his house, wife, brothers, parents, or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will receive special rewards. So........any of you do it?
RO 13:1-4, PE 2:13-14 Be subject to every human institution. All authorities (laws and governments) are from God. (Note: This would include those of a Nazi Germany, yet believers seldom follow this injunction. Even Jesus and his Disciples violated this principle.)
1CO 11:14 It is a shame for a man to have long hair. (Note: Why is it, then, that most portrayals of Jesus show him with long hair?)
JA 4:7-10 Humble yourselves before God: be miserable, grieve and cry, let laughter be turned to sorrow. The Lord will then exalt you.
GE 24:2-9, 47:29 "... put your hand under my thigh, and I will make you swear by the Lord ...." (Note: This means "put your hand under my testicles," which is the manner in which oaths were taken at the time; "testament," "testify," and "testicle" have the same root.)
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty of which thirty-two are set aside as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 28:15, 30 If you do not obey the voice of the Lord, the Lord will cause another man to "lie with" your wife-to-be.
JN 21:7 (KJV) "Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fishers coat unto him, for he was naked, and did cast himself into the sea."(not only it goofy but it damn funny to notice!)
This is way too much confusing and yet many people said that God is not the author of confusing which the bible said otherwise?
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 16, 2009, 11:26:29 PM
QuoteHerod believed John had risen from the dead (Mark 6:16). Herod
did not believe this (Luke 9:7).
I don't read those verses that way.
In other word, you viewed it your way. Interesting...
okay, Willie jr (?), okay. Whatever. The Lord's prayer's never answered. Keep going with these wonderful (?) insights on how the Bible can't be understood, but you understand these things. Peacetroll, is that you??
I choose to believe the promise that the Holy Spirit is leading me into all truth. I don't put words in the Lord's mouth, but I will report on much of what He tells me. I meditate in the Scriptures day and night, according to Joshua 1:8 and the Scriptures promise in that verse that if I'll do that, then it'll become self explanatory to me on how to do all the things written therein, and I'll prosper and have good success. Proverbs 4, countless Psalms, the Gospel of John, and countless New Testament passages have the exact same language, promise, and provision of understanding it all. The Scriptures teach being conformed to His image. Is it a mockery to say that it's actually being done in the way that you insinuate repeatedly? To me, the real mockery is when I find it in the Word, but here you are telling me that such a thing shall never be in this life!
AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
RO 9:11-13 God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before their birth.
The things of Esau are said to be hard to be understood, he represents'
our flesh nature that fights against God. Even Jacob had some deceiving Esau
nature in him to overcome and Esau will be no more when the deliverers judge
him in the HOLY Mountain. And I'm sure that ever Esau will be saying hallelujah,
I didnt' like that war anyway. ha
AC 16:6 The Holy Spirit forbids preaching in Asia.
AC 19:8-10 Paul preaches in Asia anyway.
The Lord let Paul "know" what was awaiting him in Asia. But Paul said he was
willing. So there must have been a choice.
AC 20:35 Quotes Jesus as having said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (No such statement of Jesus is found elsewhere in the Bible.)
John 21:25 -
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
RO 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law.
RO 4:15 Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin).
I'll admit, this one up there is a bugger! But perhaps it is saying something
akin to some of what I was saying in the first two.
1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).
Oh, come on now, there is only ONE true God!
Tho there be who are "called" gods, whether in heaven or in earth, as there be'gods
many, and lords many, but to "us" there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are
all things, and we in HIM, and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things
and we by Him.
However, there is NOT that knowledge .......in every man; for some with a conscious
of an idol......unto this hour.......etc. lst Cor 8:5
We have to be receiving revelation knowledge from HIM to intrepret some of these
things from Him.
Love is a balancing act like on a tightrope, what one sees, the other has not yet, and
so you have to consider that and not put a stumbling block in his way on coming to
know it in the timing of the Lord for "his" life.
I will close here now. Am tired anyway. If there are any of the others, you really
want help with, let me know .......and if I can,, I will say something on them.
2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.
It is written that God Himself shows Himself mericiful to the merciful and froward
to the froward. Now "that's" an unraveling
thought! ha Froward means hateful.
I think that surely does not happen in the New Covenant and Jesus is first of all
harmless........in his High Priest ministry to where He ascended.
JN 13:36 Peter asks Jesus where he is going.
JN 14:5 Thomas does the same.
JN 16:5 Jesus says that none of them have asked him where he is going.
Peter and John were literally walking with him, it is a natural speak.
But Jesus knew where He was going, to the Father, and they had not yet ask Him "this".
JN 17:12 Mentions a "son of perdition" as appearing in scripture (meaning the OT).
(Note: There is no "son of perdition" mentioned in the OT.)
At the second coming of Jesus, it is written that the "man of sin" will be
destroyed by the speaking of Jesus. He sits in the temple, and says he is God
exhalting "himself" above all that is called God. No, there are no words I can
think of right off from the old test that say "son of perdition" exactly, but there
are chapters in the Psa. that are talking about him. Part of the mystery of Christ
giving his life for us included this part too. Just as Pharo had a purpose, so also
did son of perdition, don't you think?
JN 12:31 The Devil is the ruler (or "prince") of this world.
1CO 10:26, RE 1:5 Jesus is the ruler of kings--the earth is his.
There is a world in our hearts Eccl says. And it is ruled by the carnal
mind. Which gets it's support from the prince. ha If the princes
of this world had known who it was they were crucifying, they
would not have crucified Jesus. I guess that prince lost his domain
in the process since it says Jesus is ruler of kings.........Hallelujah>
JN 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
JN 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.
Jesus said "my Father is greater than I" .....He spoke from being Son,
a Father is greater because He has reproduced. Jesus watched His
Father, give LIFE, and finally at the end......all judgement to do so
was "given" to Him and He said "I do those things I have seen with
my Father."
Hope some of what I've said here will help ..........
Oh my, Icedash, I see some more have been added. Lordy
Miss Clordy! Have to see ya tomorrow.
Martin, this is NOT Peacetroll. I don't know who it is, are you
NEW here, Icedash, I thought I'd seen your name but maybe
it was somewhere else.
Quote from: IceDash on April 16, 2009, 11:33:49 PM
I am relaxed but angry at people who claim God talked to them or the holy spirit talk to them doesn't make sense, unless it a human's wishful thinking.
By the way if God use satan as a tool, that mean God use satan for his own benefit doesn't add it up.
here more question:
GE 3:16, CO 11:3-9, EP 5:22-24, CN 3:18, TS 2:5, 1PE 3:1-6 The husband is to rule over his wife. Wives are to be subject to their husbands even when the husband is disobedient to God. Man is the image and glory of God, while woman is the glory of man. Man was not created for woman but woman for man.
EX 20:4 We are not to make likenesses of anything. (Note: This seems to preclude all photographs, paintings, statues, etc.)
this one confuse the heck outta me: MT 5:22 Do not get angry. Anger is a sin.
If that true, and the bible said God never sin, he does get angry! that's alot sin unaccount for!
MT 5:18-19 The OT law is to remain in effect until heaven and earth pass away. That's mean we didn't do the sabbath day, bad news for us.
MK 10:29, LK 18:29 A man who leaves his house, wife, brothers, parents, or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will receive special rewards. So........any of you do it?
RO 13:1-4, PE 2:13-14 Be subject to every human institution. All authorities (laws and governments) are from God. (Note: This would include those of a Nazi Germany, yet believers seldom follow this injunction. Even Jesus and his Disciples violated this principle.)
1CO 11:14 It is a shame for a man to have long hair. (Note: Why is it, then, that most portrayals of Jesus show him with long hair?)
JA 4:7-10 Humble yourselves before God: be miserable, grieve and cry, let laughter be turned to sorrow. The Lord will then exalt you.
GE 24:2-9, 47:29 "... put your hand under my thigh, and I will make you swear by the Lord ...." (Note: This means "put your hand under my testicles," which is the manner in which oaths were taken at the time; "testament," "testify," and "testicle" have the same root.)
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty of which thirty-two are set aside as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 28:15, 30 If you do not obey the voice of the Lord, the Lord will cause another man to "lie with" your wife-to-be.
JN 21:7 (KJV) "Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fishers coat unto him, for he was naked, and did cast himself into the sea."(not only it goofy but it damn funny to notice!)
This is way too much confusing and yet many people said that God is not the author of confusing which the bible said otherwise?
IceDash, one of the things that seems to be confusing you is an attempt at blending the Old and New Testament together a bit too tightly. I honestly can't think of a better book to help you with some of the Old Testament stuff than "The Covenant: A Theology of Human Destiny" by Jakob Jocz. It's not going to go through each and every single one of these verses in the Old Testament for you, but it'll explain the difference between actual daily practice in Old Testament Israel and things in the Old Testament that were simply theological and even very deliberately typological documents. And it'll give you some background on the constant Old Testament clash between prophets and priests in the Old Testament. I'm hesitant to specify the book because it's not a book written to the layman, unless there are edited later editions that I'm not aware of with more expansive footnotes and other features, but it's a seminary type book, perhaps Grad school level.
At least third year, depending on where you go for Old Testament studies. Another book that is sorta possibly written to the layman is "James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls" by Robert H. Eisenman. The reason I say "sorta maybe" layman's level on that one is because of how massive of a volume that it is. It's not a small book at 1136 pages, but it gets into the constant New Testament conflict and jabbing statements of John and James against Paul, and should help to give you some background on "friendship with the world is enmity against God" having been directed at Paul for writing "I've made myself all things to all people that I may by any means reach some" that he writes to the Corinthians.
There's much strife that makes it's way into both the Old and New Testaments and unless you know who is being addressed with some of the jabbing and
seemingly contradictory statements at times, then you've wandered into ancient Hatfield/McCoy situations that you can't even begin to understand without some good historians telling you what was going on at the time. Doesn't alter the meaning of the texts, per se, but puts them into perspective and shows you the difference between straight up Old and New Testament doctrine and what was contemporary rivalry going on. It at least gives you enough of a perspective to weigh what is being said and by whom, and where necessary to your own mind, to choose a side where you feel the most confident that the author was the closest to the mind of God about the particular thing in question.
Quote from: martincisneros on April 17, 2009, 02:47:57 AM
Quote from: IceDash on April 16, 2009, 11:33:49 PM
I am relaxed but angry at people who claim God talked to them or the holy spirit talk to them doesn't make sense, unless it a human's wishful thinking.
By the way if God use satan as a tool, that mean God use satan for his own benefit doesn't add it up.
here more question:
GE 3:16, CO 11:3-9, EP 5:22-24, CN 3:18, TS 2:5, 1PE 3:1-6 The husband is to rule over his wife. Wives are to be subject to their husbands even when the husband is disobedient to God. Man is the image and glory of God, while woman is the glory of man. Man was not created for woman but woman for man.
EX 20:4 We are not to make likenesses of anything. (Note: This seems to preclude all photographs, paintings, statues, etc.)
this one confuse the heck outta me: MT 5:22 Do not get angry. Anger is a sin.
If that true, and the bible said God never sin, he does get angry! that's alot sin unaccount for!
MT 5:18-19 The OT law is to remain in effect until heaven and earth pass away. That's mean we didn't do the sabbath day, bad news for us.
MK 10:29, LK 18:29 A man who leaves his house, wife, brothers, parents, or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will receive special rewards. So........any of you do it?
RO 13:1-4, PE 2:13-14 Be subject to every human institution. All authorities (laws and governments) are from God. (Note: This would include those of a Nazi Germany, yet believers seldom follow this injunction. Even Jesus and his Disciples violated this principle.)
1CO 11:14 It is a shame for a man to have long hair. (Note: Why is it, then, that most portrayals of Jesus show him with long hair?)
JA 4:7-10 Humble yourselves before God: be miserable, grieve and cry, let laughter be turned to sorrow. The Lord will then exalt you.
GE 24:2-9, 47:29 "... put your hand under my thigh, and I will make you swear by the Lord ...." (Note: This means "put your hand under my testicles," which is the manner in which oaths were taken at the time; "testament," "testify," and "testicle" have the same root.)
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty of which thirty-two are set aside as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 28:15, 30 If you do not obey the voice of the Lord, the Lord will cause another man to "lie with" your wife-to-be.
JN 21:7 (KJV) "Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fishers coat unto him, for he was naked, and did cast himself into the sea."(not only it goofy but it damn funny to notice!)
This is way too much confusing and yet many people said that God is not the author of confusing which the bible said otherwise?
IceDash, one of the things that seems to be confusing you is an attempt at blending the Old and New Testament together a bit too tightly.
Too tightly? god said himself that he never change, so the old testament and the new testament DO too tightly.
It is very interesting none of you trying to answer the question I post here does mean the holy spirit is not speaking through you, because number one: hyprocrites. I do love God but I don't like telling people "what the lord told me" I also noticed that you said that: "I don't put words in the Lord's mouth, but I will report on much of what He tells me."
Really, in that case how do you know it God's voice in your mind or just your wishful thinking? I am really don't like people saying these thing because it doesn't make sense at all, I am sorry but I have to regrets to leave this forum because I do not like hyprocrites and think they know all the bible very wells, I do not like people cannot answer the question I just posted, if you have a holy spirit talkin' to you, you surely have a answer of every question, don't you?
I do not wanna hear anymore but I am leaving, I am not losing faith in God, I just don't trust people who said God or holy spirit talkin to them and I don't like people sayin I do not have fully relationship with God, that's because we can't, because of free wills, God control and desire whom he choose, this is why he will choose who he is pity, choose who is seeking him, no one is perfect and nobody can hear God unless he give up his life for God, you have to leave your familys, your life, lose your life to be saved, follow God only, not you, this is why I am so confused with people who stay home in a comfort zone, never going to help muslim world, or other country who don't know God, you can't do God's will unless you gave up your life to God but you people buyin DVD, snack, watching TV, having computer because of God's grace, this doesn't make sense
I am tired of this people playin game and askin for prayer where only God choose to do so and I am not mocking, martin, I am questioning your "listening or feeling" God or holy spirit and whatever you said I know all bible verse is absurd, no one can remember every verse number and every chapter, try sayin daniel 6:8 wihtout looking at the bible or intenet and if you can't, then tell the truth! I read bible but I don't memorized all the chapter and verse, our brain is not capable to do that, not even smart people kept writing numbers on blackboard because they can't do it themselves.
God bless you all, this is my last post.
I love you, IceDash, with all of my heart. :HeartThrob:
Always will...
Quote from: IceDash on April 17, 2009, 03:38:59 AMToo tightly? god said himself that he never change, so the old testament and the new testament DO too tightly.
It is very interesting none of you trying to answer the question I post here does mean the holy spirit is not speaking through you, because number one: hyprocrites.
I could answer each verse. That's not the issue. It's your heart. You've not heard, or haven't understood, or it's not been time for any of the answers that I've shared with you [thus far] about anything else that I've shared with you. I'm at least not ignoring you, as my natural inclination would be when someone doesn't get it after the first few things that I'll share with them. My natural inclination is to say "ah well" and move on and not even try. So, on this, I was at least trying to point you in the direction of resources that would help you have some peace about some of these passages until your growth in grace would allow you to entertain from the Holy Spirit what would be more advanced answers for you. I wasn't saying that those were the limitations of my understanding of those passages. You've criticized everything I've said thus far, so why should I give you all of the depths of my heart for you to likewise criticize? And in saying that, I'm not setting myself up as your superior. Those that have seen the growth of my grace in the Lord over the last couple of years on these boards know that I don't even give the same answers to things as they come up as I used to. Growth in grace does mean growth in perspective along with everything else in the Kingdom of God. Our understanding of things in the Word grows over time as we weigh each new thing the Holy Spirit draws our attentions to in the Word and shows us how to make 'em applicable to our lives. Doesn't necessarily imply contradiction, but just growth in depth as our hearts, lives, and sanctification grows in Him.
QuoteI am relaxed but angry at people who claim God talked to them or the holy spirit talk to them doesn't make sense, unless it a human's wishful thinking.
IceDash you know I never claimed that. In fact I claimed the very opposite. So donme me for things I'm not.
Quote from: IceDash on April 16, 2009, 11:35:39 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 16, 2009, 11:26:29 PM
QuoteHerod believed John had risen from the dead (Mark 6:16). Herod
did not believe this (Luke 9:7).
I don't read those verses that way.
In other word, you viewed it your way. Interesting...
It was past bedtime when I wrote that.
Let me explain how I read it.
In one verses Herod just shouts "Wow! He is alive! He is alive!"
In the other verse Herod shouts "Unbelieveble! Unbeliveble! He is alive! He is alive!"
Quote from: IceDash on April 17, 2009, 03:38:59 AM
It is very interesting none of you trying to answer the question I post here does mean the holy spirit is not speaking through you, because number one: hyprocrites. I do love God but I don't like telling people "what the lord told me" I also noticed that you said that: "I don't put words in the Lord's mouth, but I will report on much of what He tells me."
iD I
did try to answer part of your verses. Only part of it because I simple don't know the answer to all.
Maybe very very wrong answers; but at least give me the credit that I tried and never ever even hinted that the HS/God gave me a helping hand with my answers.
QuoteGod bless you all, this is my last post.
Nope. Impossible! :laughing7:
A forum lives by looking at things from every angle. We/I need your angle.
See you next week! Ok?
Peace :thumbsup:
Hi IceDash,
I just took the time to read through all this thread... I hope you don't stay away forever. Sometimes it is good to take a break.
We can go through all the verses you posted if you want, there are many good articles that cover the supposed "contradictions" that you bring up.
But the main point of my post here is how do we know if the Holy Spirit is guiding us in understanding? Personally for me, I don't know for sure. But I proceed on faith and prayer and use my human logic and reasoning and be open to changing my preconceived views. I believe what I have learned in the last year makes the most sense of anything I've learned my whole life.
Its kind of like being told your whole life that 2+2=3. You kind of go along with it - everyone else believes 2+2=3, so it must be true. And then someone comes along and says "NO WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? 2+2=4!!!!" And then the light bulb goes on. Of course 2+2=4, it could not be any other way. Now is this the holy spirit that led me to figure this out? I suppose it could be, because how else would I have not seen that 2+2=3 was False all those years?
I was blinded and deceived. Slowly the veil is being lifted. I was the one, me, myself, who finally realized this. But what made me realize this? It was in God's plan. Because I now know that 2+2=4 and I now know that God is in fact operating all things according to His plan... including most people believing 2+2=3 for their whole life.
I hope that made sense.
Peace IceDash...
The Bible can be understood...however we are all human...and it always subject to our interpretations (hence eternal hell being taught as absolute fact in mainstream theology).
at the end of the day I just see the Bible as the bridge to understanding Gods spirit and his will...not an end all be all answer for every question Ill ever have
For me the Bible is many, many things. The natural reasoning of any man can take any book and find differences of interpretations . . . And there are those who "have" indeed taken the Bible so literally that they expect every issue in my life and in every persons life on this earth, is addressed in Scripture in some form or another. I see Scripture more as "one" ingredient necessary for a life to flourish. If I take the Bible only for what it literally says, I will still die of spiritual starvation. I believe there needs to be a blending, a mixture of the Spirit folded into it . . .it's not what I interpret, or what I conclude, it's what God reveals that makes all the difference in the world. And God reveals different things to different people . . .which is why I've always stated, it's not about who's right or who's wrong . .but who's "one".
You can't teach someone an experience. They must go through it themselves. And UR, for me . . . along with so many other characteristics of Christ . . .it's not a doctrine or a belief, it's an experience that I've found myself having through my personal walk in Christ. And my use and my opinion of the Bible has evolved in that experience as well. Scripture for me, aligns priorities in such a way that most of the questions that many demand you prove with chapter and verse, are things of very little importance. You can't defend an experience. You went through it, it's now a part of you, and that's that. There's no "proving" or "defending". I am who I am because I believe that Christ is in me doing the work of transforming me both to "want" to, and to "do" what is pleasing to the Lord.
And just because a church doesn't think a certain way of dressing, talking, living isn't pleasing to the Lord, does not actually mean that God doesn't see me as pleasing. The only thing I have that will ever please God is my faith . . .the fact that I believe and live according to what can not be seen, is all that is needed to please the Father . . .how cool is that!!
Quote from: IceDash on April 16, 2009, 10:28:27 PM
not even you as well, this is why I am tired of people said they understand the bible, no they don't, however I do love God but I hate faker, reason why? I will tell you why:
When people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does
You don't love God, God make you love him
You don't worship him, God make you worship him
You cannot yell at God with bad word unless God make you said it
In other word, God control human race through his pleasure, I begining to question the bible......
Here my question:
If Isa 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus as Messiah, it failed, because
he was never called Immanuel.
God will rescue his faithful from the lions (Ps 35:17). Many
martyrs were killed by lions.
The name "Babel" does not come from the Hebrew word
balbal, "confuse," but from Babylonian bab-
ili, "gate of God," which is a translation of the
original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra (Gen 11:9).
The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num
15:32-34.
There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves
opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion
(Matt 27:52-53).
Earth does not move (Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 1 Chr 16:30).
Earth is flat (these verses were used for centuries by the church
to prove this: Ps 93:1, Jer 10:13, Dan 4:10-11, Zech 9:10,
Matt 4:8, Rev 1:7).
God knows everything; he is "omniscient" (Ps 139:1-6, Prov 15:3,
5:21, Job 26:6, 34:21, Isa 44:7, Ezek 11:5, Matt 12:25, John
2:24, Rom 1:20). But: Samuel has to tell God what the
people said (1 Sam 8:21). God doesn't know where Adam is
(Gen 3:8-9). God doesn't know which houses in Egypt contain
Israelites; he needs to see blood on the doorpost (Ex
12:13). God has to test Israel for 40 years to find out if
they would keep his commandments (Deut 8:2). God is
forgetful and must be reminded of his promises, e.g. of his
promise to Noah (Gen 9:15-16).
God is everywhere, he is "omnipresent" (Ps 139:7, Prov 15:3, Jer
23:23,24, 1 Kings 8:27, Job 23:9, 26, 28, Acts 17:27). But:
he is only in one place at a time: he walked in the Garden
(Gen 3:8); he came down to see the Tower (Gen 11:5); he
"went his way" (Gen 18:33); Gen 46:4; Ex 3:4, "Here I am";
Exodus passim, travelling with Israelites; Num 23:15, Job
1:12, Jonah 1:3; he "walks about" in the Israelite camp,
Deut 23:12-14; he dwells in the Temple, OT passim; he
"dwells in Zion" (Joel 3:21); he will sit in the Valley of
Jehoshaphat to judge the heathen (Joel 3:12); sometimes he
goes from one place to another riding a cherub. Ps 18:10, 2
Sam 22:11. Sometimes God hides himself (Isa 45:15).
God tempts Abraham (Gen 22:1) and can lead us into temptation
(Matt 6:13; contra: James 1:13).
God will send delusion so that the people will believe a lie, so
that they might be damned (2 Thess 2:11-12, Isa 6:9-12; see
also Mk 4:12, saying that Jesus speaks in parables lest the
people understand and repent, and Matt 11:25, where Jesus
thanks God that the truth has been hidden from the wise).
The purpose of the Law is to increase sin, which increases
God's grace (Rom 5:20, Rom 7).
God can do evil (Ex 32:14, Amos 3:6, Job 42:11).
It was Moses' idea to appoint judges (Deut 1:9-17). It was
Jethro's idea (Ex 18:1-27).
Sisera was sleeping when he was killed, says Judg 4:21. He was
standing, says Judg 5:25-27.
Who ordered the numbering of Israel? God, says 2 Sam 24:1; Sa-
tan, says 1 Chron 21:1; God, says Num 26:1-2.
Herod believed John had risen from the dead (Mark 6:16). Herod
did not believe this (Luke 9:7).
Touching the resurrected Jesus: The two Marys touch him at his
first appearance to them, says Matt 28:9. Thomas touches
him a week later, says John 20:27. No one can touch him
until he has ascended to heaven, says John 20:17.
Jesus founds his church on Peter and gives him the keys of the
kingdom (Matt 16:18). But James seems to be in charge (Acts
15:1-21). Mark, Luke and John seem to know nothing of
Peter's special position, even though tradition says that
Mark was secretary to Peter.
For or against Jesus: Matt 12:30 says if you are not for him,
you are against him. Mark 9:40 says if you are not against
him, you are for him. (These are contradictory as to the
indifferent or undecided.)
Is temptation a good thing? No, say Matt 6:13, Luke 11:4. Yes,
says James 1:2
Prayer: Is it always effective? Yes, if you ask in faith (Matt
21:22 and Mark 11:24). Or if you ask in Jesus' name (John
14:4 and 16:23). Ask, and it will be given (Matt 7:7-8,
Luke 11:9-10). Yes, if you are a righteous man or keeping
the commandments (Prov 15:29, James 5:16, 1 John 3:22,
5:14). But none are righteous (Rom 3:10)). Yes, if two
believers ask together (Matt 18:19. Not always (Jer
7:16, 11:14, Lam 3:44, Ps 10:1, 22:1-2, Isa 1:15, Mic 3:4, John
7:34). Prayer must not be long (Matt 23:14). Only if it
you request something that God wants anyway (1 John 5:14-15,
which implies that your prayer has no effect on the
outcome). Many who ask to enter the kingdom will be refused
(Luke 13:24).
the list goes on and on, I still love God but I begining to wonder whatever the bible is so messed up and don't tell me otherwise.
These are great areas to study and also to investigate the original language. About the Earth being flat there is some information on this subject at http://www.godandscience.org/ and probably information about some of your other questions. Also realize that many of our modern translations have been contaminated by mistranslation.
willieH: Hi brother N... :hithere:
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
For me the Bible is many, many things. The natural reasoning of any man can take any book and find differences of interpretations
So true brother... Heck, ...a car accident can be viewed from witnesses on opposing street corners and get 2 completely different observations of it... Same accident, same time, same 2 cars... TWO VERSIONS of it...
If this is done in EYE WITNESS, then it surely can take place as we read the
WORD with finite comprehension, inhibited by the "earthly individuals" we each are... :dontknow:
It takes divine intervention and inspiration to bring harmony to 2 hearts, let alone hundreds, thousand or millions!
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PM. . . And there are those who "have" indeed taken the Bible so literally that they expect every issue in my life and in every persons life on this earth, is addressed in Scripture in some form or another. I see Scripture more as "one" ingredient necessary for a life to flourish. If I take the Bible only for what it literally says, I will still die of spiritual starvation. I believe there needs to be a blending, a mixture of the Spirit folded into it . . .it's not what I interpret, or what I conclude, it's what God reveals that makes all the difference in the world. And God reveals different things to different people . . .which is why I've always stated, it's not about who's right or who's wrong . .but who's "one".
Great words bro... I gave up a few years ago (and SO glad that I did), on the "right--wrong" battle... God told me that we are either VEILED or REVEALED, and that HE is the ONLY ONE who is RIGHT... And it is HE which decides which of us, and when, we shall join Him...
As HUMILITY is born in our hearts, in SUBMISSION to Him... the LIGHT creeps into the areas of the darkness of our hearts (which are myriad)... and ENLIGHTENS us... And even then, when we have been given, LIGHT... the only reaction that should happen is THANKFULNESS and PRAYER... that others might be so blessed as to see... instead of insisting yourself upon them...
Share where you are at present, knowing that much of what you share, is NOT enlightened, ...just "where you are" at present...
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PMYou can't teach someone an experience. They must go through it themselves. And UR, for me . . . along with so many other characteristics of Christ . . .it's not a doctrine or a belief, it's an experience that I've found myself having through my personal walk in Christ. And my use and my opinion of the Bible has evolved in that experience as well.
:iagree: You are on a roll dear brother! :Urock:
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PMScripture for me, aligns priorities in such a way that most of the questions that many demand you prove with chapter and verse, are things of very little importance. You can't defend an experience. You went through it, it's now a part of you, and that's that. There's no "proving" or "defending". I am who I am because I believe that Christ is in me doing the work of transforming me both to "want" to, and to "do" what is pleasing to the Lord.
:goodone: Nathan... did you take a "LIGHT" shower this morning? :laughing7:
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PMAnd just because a church doesn't think a certain way of dressing, talking, living isn't pleasing to the Lord, does not actually mean that God doesn't see me as pleasing. The only thing I have that will ever please God is my faith . . .the fact that I believe and live according to what can not be seen, is all that is needed to please the Father . . .how cool is that!!
Amen... :happyclap: what an inspiring post bro... :goodpost:
...willieH :cloud9:
willieH: Hi PP... :cloud9:
I wish to make a comment about the
link you posted below...
And give warning to those who might "check it out". :sigh:
Please know that I am NOT assuming you are, but must ask...
Are YOU in affiliation with these people Priestsplace? And a proponent of theirs? Seeking to bring their positions here? -- Just curious... for if you are, you may just find me, a thorn in your side @ TM...
Quote from: preistsplace on May 25, 2009, 09:30:51 PM
These are great areas to study and also to investigate the original language. About the Earth being flat there is some information on this subject at http://www.godandscience.org/ and probably information about some of your other questions. Also realize that many of our modern translations have been contaminated by mistranslation.
I just spent a few weeks at this site, involved with their discussion forum... These people are the very most
NARROW MINDED and especially
IMPATIENT souls, ...that I have encountered since my first experience with
CARM and
Matt Slick...
I would therefore note to all, and recommend that anything on this site is subject to question. (even though I was not there long enough to research their site)...
In discussion, they prove themselves with theological references instead of the
WORD...
And are unresponsive to Biblical questioning... Ignoring, and instead of responding to questions of their "knowledge"... barking Orthodoxy... as an answer, claiming that Universalists have created their own "God"... and are in need of repentence for it... :rolleye: Calling Biblical observations made of UR, as misbehavior... because it questions their Orthodox positions...
And ALL references they used in my encounters with them in discussion were parroted "Biblical" HEARSAY at best... Avoiding answering my questions of them often.
They propose "evidence" but their "evidence" is not rooted in the
WORD, rather in their own pious minds, and in the "theological" sources they quote... (such as the "Moody Handbook of Theology")
I have walked with the Lord for 33+ years... and one of their "Board adminstrators"
("BW") had the audacity to urge me to say the "sinner's prayer", saying that I "needed
CHRIST" and that the
CHRIST which I believe in, is a creation of UNIVERSALISM...
:Yeahright:
If anyone chooses to investigate this site...
See thread in their "Abberent Christianity" forum -- thread entitled: "Christian Universalism"... and read a little of the dialogue between
"BW" (board admin), and myself (willieH)... As well as "Jlay" and myself... :dontknow:
...willieH :cloud9:
Quote from: willieH on May 25, 2009, 09:42:30 PM
willieH: Hi brother N... :hithere:
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
For me the Bible is many, many things. The natural reasoning of any man can take any book and find differences of interpretations
So true brother... Heck, ...a car accident can be viewed from witnesses on opposing street corners and get 2 completely different observations of it... Same accident, same time, same 2 cars... TWO VERSIONS of it...
If this is done in EYE WITNESS, then it surely can take place as we read the WORD with finite comprehension, inhibited by the "earthly individuals" we each are... :dontknow:
It takes divine intervention and inspiration to bring harmony to 2 hearts, let alone hundreds, thousand or millions!
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PM. . . And there are those who "have" indeed taken the Bible so literally that they expect every issue in my life and in every persons life on this earth, is addressed in Scripture in some form or another. I see Scripture more as "one" ingredient necessary for a life to flourish. If I take the Bible only for what it literally says, I will still die of spiritual starvation. I believe there needs to be a blending, a mixture of the Spirit folded into it . . .it's not what I interpret, or what I conclude, it's what God reveals that makes all the difference in the world. And God reveals different things to different people . . .which is why I've always stated, it's not about who's right or who's wrong . .but who's "one".
Great words bro... I gave up a few years ago (and SO glad that I did), on the "right--wrong" battle... God told me that we are either VEILED or REVEALED, and that HE is the ONLY ONE who is RIGHT... And it is HE which decides which of us, and when, we shall join Him...
As HUMILITY is born in our hearts, in SUBMISSION to Him... the LIGHT creeps into the areas of the darkness of our hearts (which are myriad)... and ENLIGHTENS us... And even then, when we have been given, LIGHT... the only reaction that should happen is THANKFULNESS and PRAYER... that others might be so blessed as to see... instead of insisting yourself upon them...
Share where you are at present, knowing that much of what you share, is NOT enlightened, ...just "where you are" at present...
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PMYou can't teach someone an experience. They must go through it themselves. And UR, for me . . . along with so many other characteristics of Christ . . .it's not a doctrine or a belief, it's an experience that I've found myself having through my personal walk in Christ. And my use and my opinion of the Bible has evolved in that experience as well.
:iagree: You are on a roll dear brother! :Urock:
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PMScripture for me, aligns priorities in such a way that most of the questions that many demand you prove with chapter and verse, are things of very little importance. You can't defend an experience. You went through it, it's now a part of you, and that's that. There's no "proving" or "defending". I am who I am because I believe that Christ is in me doing the work of transforming me both to "want" to, and to "do" what is pleasing to the Lord.
:goodone: Nathan... did you take a "LIGHT" shower this morning? :laughing7:
Quote from: Nathan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PMAnd just because a church doesn't think a certain way of dressing, talking, living isn't pleasing to the Lord, does not actually mean that God doesn't see me as pleasing. The only thing I have that will ever please God is my faith . . .the fact that I believe and live according to what can not be seen, is all that is needed to please the Father . . .how cool is that!!
Amen... :happyclap: what an inspiring post bro... :goodpost:
...willieH :cloud9:
:cloud9: Just wanted to chime in my Amen, to both of your writings here........ :thumbsup: Blessings...
as for the numbers thing reference to exodous 16 where there is a more complete description of the manna. It says that on the sixth day they gathered double because it wasnt permitted on the second day. Also about the earth being flat the four winds at the four corners. In Hebrew this is supposed to have some thing to do with the wingtips of a bird, for us it is better if we use the as compass points. One other thing I will point out is that even being a universalist it is important that we maintain our faith in Christ and that we are very careful. There are many people who are searching for a way to discredit the bible under the guise of athiesm. They say that God doesnt exist and then attack Christians belief system. Alot of them are afraid of ET, ,afraid that God is an angry vengeful God. Many years ago when I was an athiest I began trying to disprove Christianity, for the same reason my veiw of God Left me no other choice. Oh and about the against us forus thing in the New Testament , check the context. In one instance Jesus is talking to people about following him. In the other he is talking to his disciples about other people who were casting out demons in Jesus' name. God Bless and Keep you. Oh and one more thing God will ansewer you when you question him,we just gotta be ready to listen
not even you as well, this is why I am tired of people said they understand the bible, no they don't, however I do love God but I hate faker, reason why? I will tell you why:
When people said God doesn't tempt people, the devil does, really? read the the lord's prayer where it said : "Don't bring us into temptetion but deliver us from evil" GOD DOES TEMPT PEOPLE!!!! Read it it aloud, DON'T BRING US INTO TEMPTETION!" in other word: the devil didn't bring people to tempt but God does
You don't love God, God make you love him
You don't worship him, God make you worship him
You cannot yell at God with bad word unless God make you said it
In other word, God control human race through his pleasure, I begining to question the bible......
Here my question:
If Isa 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus as Messiah, it failed, because
he was never called Immanuel.
MyMy ansewer Matthew 1:23
God will rescue his faithful from the lions (Ps 35:17). Many
martyrs were killed by lions.
Lions are used as a metaphor to describe Davids Enimies
The name "Babel" does not come from the Hebrew word
balbal, "confuse," but from Babylonian bab-
ili, "gate of God," which is a translation of the
original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra (Gen 11:9).
For the Hebrews confusion, for the Babylonians Gen 11:6 ( god talks about confusing them because anything would be possible if they were to continue speaking the same language.
The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num
15:32-34.
ansewered in previous post
There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves
opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion
(Matt 27:52-53).
Earth does not move (Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 1 Chr 16:30).
does not move or will not be moved off of its natural course David also said that he wouldn't be moved, but I dont think he was litterally standing still
Earth is flat (these verses were used for centuries by the church
to prove this: Ps 93:1, Jer 10:13, Dan 4:10-11, Zech 9:10,
Matt 4:8, Rev 1:7).
Maybe the term in Hebrew points to the points of a compass
God knows everything; he is "omniscient" (Ps 139:1-6, Prov 15:3,
5:21, Job 26:6, 34:21, Isa 44:7, Ezek 11:5, Matt 12:25, John
2:24, Rom 1:20). But: Samuel has to tell God what the
people said (1 Sam 8:21). God doesn't know where Adam is
(Gen 3:8-9). God doesn't know which houses in Egypt contain
Israelites; he needs to see blood on the doorpost (Ex
12:13). God has to test Israel for 40 years to find out if
they would keep his commandments (Deut 8:2). God is
forgetful and must be reminded of his promises, e.g. of his
promise to Noah (Gen 9:15-16).
Just because God knows doesn't mean that he doesnt ask.
The rainbow I believe is more about comforting Noah, and not reminding God
God is everywhere, he is "omnipresent" (Ps 139:7, Prov 15:3, Jer
23:23,24, 1 Kings 8:27, Job 23:9, 26, 28, Acts 17:27). But:
he is only in one place at a time: he walked in the Garden
(Gen 3:8); he came down to see the Tower (Gen 11:5); he
"went his way" (Gen 18:33); Gen 46:4; Ex 3:4, "Here I am";
Exodus passim, travelling with Israelites; Num 23:15, Job
1:12, Jonah 1:3; he "walks about" in the Israelite camp,
Deut 23:12-14; he dwells in the Temple, OT passim; he
"dwells in Zion" (Joel 3:21); he will sit in the Valley of
Jehoshaphat to judge the heathen (Joel 3:12); sometimes he
goes from one place to another riding a cherub. Ps 18:10, 2
Sam 22:11. Sometimes God hides himself (Isa 45:15).
He is also Almighty so he can do more than one thing at a time
God tempts Abraham (Gen 22:1) and can lead us into temptation
(Matt 6:13; contra: James 1:13).
the LORD allows us to be tempted, Joc chapter 1
Quote from: willieH on May 25, 2009, 10:19:56 PM
willieH: Hi PP... :cloud9:
I wish to make a comment about the link you posted below...
And give warning to those who might "check it out". :sigh:
Please know that I am NOT assuming you are, but must ask...
Are YOU in affiliation with these people Priestsplace? And a proponent of theirs? Seeking to bring their positions here? -- Just curious... for if you are, you may just find me, a thorn in your side @ TM...
Quote from: preistsplace on May 25, 2009, 09:30:51 PM
These are great areas to study and also to investigate the original language. About the Earth being flat there is some information on this subject at http://www.godandscience.org/ and probably information about some of your other questions. Also realize that many of our modern translations have been contaminated by mistranslation.
I just spent a few weeks at this site, involved with their discussion forum... These people are the very most NARROW MINDED and especially IMPATIENT souls, ...that I have encountered since my first experience with CARM and Matt Slick...
I would therefore note to all, and recommend that anything on this site is subject to question. (even though I was not there long enough to research their site)...
In discussion, they prove themselves with theological references instead of the WORD...
And are unresponsive to Biblical questioning... Ignoring, and instead of responding to questions of their "knowledge"... barking Orthodoxy... as an answer, claiming that Universalists have created their own "God"... and are in need of repentence for it... :rolleye: Calling Biblical observations made of UR, as misbehavior... because it questions their Orthodox positions...
And ALL references they used in my encounters with them in discussion were parroted "Biblical" HEARSAY at best... Avoiding answering my questions of them often.
They propose "evidence" but their "evidence" is not rooted in the WORD, rather in their own pious minds, and in the "theological" sources they quote... (such as the "Moody Handbook of Theology")
I have walked with the Lord for 33+ years... and one of their "Board adminstrators" ("BW") had the audacity to urge me to say the "sinner's prayer", saying that I "needed CHRIST" and that the CHRIST which I believe in, is a creation of UNIVERSALISM...
:Yeahright:
If anyone chooses to investigate this site...
See thread in their "Abberent Christianity" forum -- thread entitled: "Christian Universalism"... and read a little of the dialogue between "BW" (board admin), and myself (willieH)... As well as "Jlay" and myself... :dontknow:
...willieH :cloud9:
Willie H I am not suggesting any of their veiws or hypocrisy. How ever at that sight I have seen a pretty reasonable explanation for the Earth being flat. Nor do I believe that it is right and godly to put anyone on trial for their beliefs. I do believe that we need to be getting as much information as we can from as many places as possible to be able to ansewer complex questions. I am truly sorry if this offended you in any way.
It is very hard to know where anyone who is here is from and who might have attacked them in the past.
willieH: Hi P-P... :cloud9:
Just saw this reply today... :mblush: sorry for being so slooooooooooooooooow... :blush:
Quote from: preistsplace on May 26, 2009, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: willieH on May 25, 2009, 10:19:56 PM
willieH: Hi PP... :cloud9:
I wish to make a comment about the link you posted below...
And give warning to those who might "check it out". :sigh:
Please know that I am NOT assuming you are, but must ask...
Are YOU in affiliation with these people Priestsplace? And a proponent of theirs? Seeking to bring their positions here? -- Just curious... for if you are, you may just find me, a thorn in your side @ TM...
Quote from: preistsplace on May 25, 2009, 09:30:51 PM
These are great areas to study and also to investigate the original language. About the Earth being flat there is some information on this subject at http://www.godandscience.org/ and probably information about some of your other questions. Also realize that many of our modern translations have been contaminated by mistranslation.
I just spent a few weeks at this site, involved with their discussion forum... These people are the very most NARROW MINDED and especially IMPATIENT souls, ...that I have encountered since my first experience with CARM and Matt Slick...
I would therefore note to all, and recommend that anything on this site is subject to question. (even though I was not there long enough to research their site)...
In discussion, they prove themselves with theological references instead of the WORD...
And are unresponsive to Biblical questioning... Ignoring, and instead of responding to questions of their "knowledge"... barking Orthodoxy... as an answer, claiming that Universalists have created their own "God"... and are in need of repentence for it... :rolleye: Calling Biblical observations made of UR, as misbehavior... because it questions their Orthodox positions...
And ALL references they used in my encounters with them in discussion were parroted "Biblical" HEARSAY at best... Avoiding answering my questions of them often.
They propose "evidence" but their "evidence" is not rooted in the WORD, rather in their own pious minds, and in the "theological" sources they quote... (such as the "Moody Handbook of Theology")
I have walked with the Lord for 33+ years... and one of their "Board adminstrators" ("BW") had the audacity to urge me to say the "sinner's prayer", saying that I "needed CHRIST" and that the CHRIST which I believe in, is a creation of UNIVERSALISM...
:Yeahright:
If anyone chooses to investigate this site...
See thread in their "Abberent Christianity" forum -- thread entitled: "Christian Universalism"... and read a little of the dialogue between "BW" (board admin), and myself (willieH)... As well as "Jlay" and myself... :dontknow:
...willieH :cloud9:
Willie H I am not suggesting any of their veiws or hypocrisy. How ever at that sight I have seen a pretty reasonable explanation for the Earth being flat. Nor do I believe that it is right and godly to put anyone on trial for their beliefs. I do believe that we need to be getting as much information as we can from as many places as possible to be able to ansewer complex questions. I am truly sorry if this offended you in any way.
Are you affiliated with them P-P?
I don't worry about such sites... but when I have had EXPERIENCE with a site, I will be informing my brothers and sisters here at TM, of the EXPERIENCE...
Quote from: priestplaceIt is very hard to know where anyone who is here is from and who might have attacked them in the past.
Again, this sounds as if you are affiliated with them. :dontknow:
I am not upset with you in the least brother... :friendstu:
And I don't have anything against the people at this site... But I do have a problem with their MOD staff which stifles any disagreements with either bans or threats to ban... instead of answering with sound replies which are Scripturally based and supported. :sigh:
...willieH :happygrin: