1000-Year Period

[Cardinal]

Ok just reading through this thread again and having some thoughts.  Need to jot this down and see what others think.

First: WOW.

- the day of the Lord is NOW - its this life?
- we are being judged NOW
- we are going through "eternal" (aionios) torment right NOW
- we don't have rest, day or night, right NOW (Rev 14:11)
- we (believers) are not hurt of the second death (lake of fire), but we still go through it?
- this is because we realize what is happening, we are all being judged now?
- it will only take a nanosecond for Hitler to realize He was wrong when He see's God?
- likewise for everyone else?
- revelations is, was, and will be, therefore the lake of fire is NOW..?
- WHEN were we thrown into the lake of fire?

Just some thoughts, some still questions, but I see possibilities.

Help!  And again: WOW. Legoman

:cloud9: Hi legoman.....I think Willie's got one of the best abilities to explain this, but I did want to add a few thoughts for you to further ponder here.

The NOW is not what we call the "present", as a linear delineation or measurement of time. It's literally IN HIM, that is Spirit, and this Spirit is the perfect (7 means perfect, holy, sanctified) DAY, by which Adam was to have lived, or gained life. This DAY is why it says that He will give us rest, because HE IS THE SABBATH, ie. 7th day.

So since there is no time in His Spirit, whenever He appeared, or appears, or will appear, in the "heavens" of the mind of Christ within men as revelation, then whenever and whatever time period that appearing took place, and for whoever it was He appeared to, THAT WAS THE "NOW".

This is why it says, NOW is the day of our salvation, ect. The "now" is the perception of His Spirit, as He reveals Himself to you, IN THAT MOMENT. This is the "times of refreshing" that should come, that was spoken of.

This is why it says He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, yet wisdom has obviously been revealed in stages. We are to ENTER into this rest, this 7th day, not just as we are entering it in natural chronological progression, but rather to enter into HIM, who IS the perfect DAY of the Lord, no part darkness. Which is why He said the prince of this world (number of man/all days leading up to 7) cometh, and he hath nothing IN ME.

The baptism into the Holy Ghost is what BEGINS this, as He is the DOOR into the heavenly realm. Hope I helped and didn't confuse......blessings.....

[Molly]

So since there is no time in His Spirit, whenever He appeared, or appears, or will appear, in the "heavens" of the mind of Christ within men as revelation, then whenever and whatever time period that appearing took place, and for whoever it was He appeared to, THAT WAS THE "NOW".

This is why it says, NOW is the day of our salvation, ect. The "now" is the perception of His Spirit, as He reveals Himself to you, IN THAT MOMENT. This is the "times of refreshing" that should come, that was spoken of.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

--Rev 22


"come," [Lord Jesus]

G2064
ἔρχομαι
erchomai
er'-khom-ahee
Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, ἐλεύθομαι eleuthomai or ἔλθω elthō; which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - accompany, appear, bring, come enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thank You Lord, for Your servant, Molly.......good to see you back with us.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

[jabcat]

PM, as you notice, I edited my post (then re-edited about 30 times) because initially I was annoyed.  There may have been a communication glitch, and there was too quick of an initial reaction on my part.  My apologies as well.  As I read and re-read your post and did the same to mine, I ended up with a version more along the lines of what I thought was best to say.  You quoted one of the earlier versions, and that's OK, I'm the one that put it there.  If there was anything to forgive, God has already helped me do that.  

I understand what you're saying about Revelation, I know there are a vast # of interpretations to it.  Again though, putting just those 2 scriptures together, without further exploration/revelation, IMO there may be broader contexts somewhere to consider, as I don't believe God's Word contradicts itself, and I doubt you do either.

So, since it's obviously not readily apparent to me, what is it that you're going after with this;  

To "Select" indicates that of a choice made based on fitness for the task at hand. And to appoint is synonymous with select, or chosen; elect.
peacemaker
(context, context, context ...)

You did make me think though (:thumbsup:) about the calling/choosing topic, thus this;  2 Thessalonians 2:13 (King James Version)  But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth...  I've thought about it this afternoon, and if there's a different meaning or [larger] context that would change this verse, right now I don't see it. 

[Beloved Servant]

For those inclined:
Brother Preston recently posted
part 90 of his Revelation series
"From the Candlestick to the Throne"
www.kingdombiblestudies.org

[Livelystone]

Jesus said, "I AM the RESURRECTION."

He declares that the hour is coming and "now is" when the dead shall hear His voice and live.

I show you a mystery; We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall ALL be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So, when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then, shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.  But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:51-57)

"There is no love without forgiveness, and no forgiveness without love; for what power has love, but forgiveness."

We seem to be in a period of testing and trials to ascertain our fitness, giving the offender freedom to act or make a decision. A period of probation; a time to be considerate or thoughtful by the Grace of God. And the right, power or privilege of making a choice requires judgment, as we live by the consequences of our decisions; right or wrong.

But rest assured, He will rectify the misguided in due time.

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice; but we are predestined to holiness."

This is the state of one who has returned to life from the sting of death.


peacemaker

Hi PM

I was looking over your post that I have quoted and a verse came to mind

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Since we are obviously speaking of a mystery here IMO that is a spiritual headline telling us to dig deep on this passage.......... amen? ......... I think so

So what is the fulness of the Gentiles and the blindness of Israel in regards to one specific person

Could not the Israel in a Christian be that seed that is Christ that is still blind to the truth (from being fed lies in the beginning of our walk) and that part that is "Gentile" be the 'unbelieving spirit of the old man that they were first born with taking back over the body and until the "fulness of their sins" of the "old man" are fulfilled in their life? Then the Israel in them starts its journey out of blindness as the real truths start to become known by the individual versus the #$%^ that they were taught as young believers of Jesus?

Not sure if I was able to say that in a matter that could be understood but all Christians have two opposing spirits in them...... one they were first born with and the other that they were "born again" with when they first came to the Cross.

Maybe I should have started a different thread for this but I see a parallel between what you are saying and what I am trying to say.......... I see this in my own history of accepting Christ at a young age and then leaving God as a modern day prodigal son until I could not stand it anymore despite my success.......... and then as I returned the blindness started to be removed albeit gaining sight was very painful at times.

Comments or opinions?

Blessings

Doug

[peacemaker]

You did make me think though :thumbsup: about the calling/choosing topic, thus this;  2 Thessalonians 2:13 (King James Version)  But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth...  I've thought about it this afternoon, and if there's a different meaning or [larger] context that would change this verse, right now I don't see it. 

Purifies the hearts of those who believe :gthumbsup:

Spiritual blessing, brother!

peacemaker

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I can see what you're saying Doug, as the carnal mind itself is a spirit; it's just one we're used to. So I too can see the "fractional" part; He's shown me "fractional" aspects of our being.

So in light of what you said, I can see "Israel" in us as the Seed of Christ in the heart of man, and everything that is not like Christ ("gentile" flesh), must be circumcised off His Spirit/Him. It's the circumcision of Abraham, in type. As I said before, I think we see the same things, we just have a different "language". Blessings....

[jabcat]

Spiritual blessing, brother!
peacemaker

Thank you.  You too!

[claypot]

willieH: Hi cp... :hithere:

As always you propose the thoughts of a curious and seeking mind!  :thumbsup:  :happyclap:

Willie, You have helped with your words. I fully understand that God could have stopped Hitler anytime and the rapist and so forth. I understand too some of the responsibility of God in all things.

GOD is the Creator of ALL THINGS... and therefore RESPONSIBLE for (1) their existence (2) their positions in proximity to good and evil for (3) He is the emergent center of this knowledge (4) has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all things so NOTHING "surprises" Him (5) has a PURPOSE in which He uses ALL THINGS to bring them to their respective conclusions... and much more! 

Responsible?  I'd say the "buck" starts and ends with Him -- Rev 1:8 :yes:

I started asking my recent questions just to explain how hard it is for the average person today to understand, well, grace. Grace is amazing. It forgives and cleans up 'Hitler' as well as Mother Theresa. It just does.

But it is no wonder how people mostly can't understand this. I think this is mostly an American thing too although not limited to Americans. I mean we are taught that the bad guys got to pay the ultimate price for their badness while the good guys win out. It's hard to understand that good guys and bad guys just are and that's the way it is.

Let's try a hypothetical scenario... What if "Hitler" (who, btw was born to the FAMILY GOD chose, and WHEN God chose, and in the ERA -- GOD chose, and was placed amongst the environment GOD chose - ad infinitum)... were born as FRANKLIN GRAHAM instead of the fam & era he was BORN in, via GOD's choices...

Do you think he would've become the same VILE, and DESTRUCTIVE person he became? Under the tutiledge of Billy Graham?  Whatcha think?  :JCThink:

So Willie, are you thinking that people who enjoy doing evil and spend their days here on earth doing so.......do you think they eventually just go through the same process as you and I to be made in the image of God?

People who "enjoy" evil?  In observing (as a counsellor in a homeless shelter), many persons who, by their own bad decisions and involvements in evil, became "destroyed" as far as a HOME, and or NORMAL life might involve... almost to a person, noted very TROUBLED and ANXIETY ridden minds...

It is easy to observe a "serial killer", and deduce him as LESS than yourself... For he appears to "enjoy" his actions... however... deeper scrutiny upon such a mind (if in fact he/she is subdued by authorities), often reveals a VERY TROUBLED PATHWAY...

Let us take our "serial killer" and name his victims as WOMEN...

In other words Let's list some possible things which may have "occured" upon the "PATHWAY" to Serial Killing (without making excuse for that negative behavior),

This person might have been ...BEATEN in childhood by women (mother, sisters, neighborhood kids, etc),  ...REJECTED by them in adolsescence (turned down for dates, laughed upon at school dances, mocked by them for his "2nd hand clothing", etc),  ...FIRED in the workplace (by female supervisors, or maybe by false accusations made by female co-workers)...

NONE of these facts are known by YOU... only his "enjoyment" of evil, which is seen in his "Serial Killings"... 

My point is, that GOD only knows in many cases, the deep bruising and sorrow which we have, and MEN cannot see... Which is why He said NOT to JUDGE, and COMMANDED we FORGIVE enemies...  :dontknow:

Willie you say the negativity we see in man is purposed. I imagine you mean purposed by God, correct?

I believe we walk in this life according to HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE of our lives... and NOTHING of GOD is vain... however, ALL of this life -- that which MEN do (the entire CREATION)... has been SUBJECTED to VANITY -- BY Him... Rom 8:20-21

I see some people who do evil as incapable of doing otherwise at least at the time they are doing it. Do you think a guy who can just up and kill another person almost just for the fun of it could do otherwise?

No... if it occurs, the act is DECLARED to be so... And I really don't think any killing is ever (foundationally done -- in the deepest portion of the offender)... for the "fun of it"...

If there were no such thing as DIRTY, how could we possibly know what CLEAN was?  God in WISDOM has created this scenario in which we live and die, to teach us the Universal applications and NECESSITY of OPPOSITES. 

In this, the GOOD that GOD IS -- to the "extreme", ...is being displayed by EVIL -- in the very SAME "extreme"...  :dontknow:  And "we" are the "players" in the "play"... :yes: ...WRITTEN by the Great PLAYWRITE... who's NAME is LOVE!  :myahoo:

Do we all kill others like Jesus said when He spoke about us being angry with another is like murder? So are the rapists and killers that abound in the physical just like us who do it in the realm of the mind?

JESUS noted that the things which occur in the mind, are the very same as carrying out that "thought" in the Physical...  If I call you a name in thought, and don't do so in the physical... am I, because I didn't AUDIBLIZE my thought, still a "good guy"  Or are you silently DECIEVED by my REAL thoughts of you?  You are oblivious of my corrupted character concerning you... but inside, ...I am the same BUM that I would be considered by such derrogatory condescension, even though I didn't make YOU aware of it...  :sigh:

I will probably never kill another human and will probably always see it as wrong while another will do the deed without hardly a thought. Is this just how we are made? I have my reasons for not killing or raping in the physical. I seem to be guided by an inner make up that makes certain things very unappealing to me yet others have not this make up in them so they can do things I would never do.

Many are called, FEW are chosen, cp... You are ORDAINED to walk in GOOD WORKS, if indeed you WALK in them - eh?  Eph 2:10

By the same token... another is NOT chosen to "walk in them"... and consequently, we have killers and rapists amongst us... which were KNOWN, before they were BORN, and have "walked" otherwise, yet were BORN nevertheless!  :dontknow:

So Willie, would you say a rapist, because of his make up will rape while you or I probably won't ever rape because stuff in our make up will keep us from such a deed?

There is not ONE speck of dust upon the earth, that does not have a particular place in the wisdom and power of GOD... HE works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS OWN WILL... Eph 1:11 -- that disincludes NOTHING...

Your or my abstanation from evil, only shall serve to bring to humility (and rightly so), to those who (in this life) do NOT abstain...

GOD decided who MOSES would be... and who HITLER would be bro...  So let us not "pat" MOSES on the back too excessively, nor "slam" HITLER in the same extreme... instead, within ourselves, let us be humble, and call for HIS mercy to be UPON ALL... and thereby agree with what Peter said:  2 Peter 3:9

Would you say that a person who rapes or murders is really no better or worse than anybody else in God's eyes?

cp

God is NO RESPECTER of persons... which says to me, that no matter what I DO... NOTHING can be considered GOOD which has emerged from ME!  Only that which CHRIST has done IN ME, and that displays HIM in me, can be considered GOOD...  the "ME" that is ME, is dung... and is that which must be COMPLETELY ousted from the existence which is "me", and replaced with HIM...

He took upon Himself the SIN of the WORLD, ...If I consider that even ONE MOMENT of SIN which has occured IN ME in my life here on earth, was enough to KILL HIM... then how may I judge another "troubled" and likely less fortunate (according to His WILL), other?  :pitiful:  Such as a "rapist", or "Hitler" or my next door neighbor, or even, "Franklin Graham"?

For the pathway of "Hitler" was given to "Hitler" because GOD chose him to be "Hitler"... and the pathway of "willieH" was given to "willieH", because GOD chose me to be "willieH"... I could have been "Hitler"... so conclusively, I root for GOD's LONG and LOVING arms to reach "Hitler" ...that GOD's Holy "FAM" be completely COMPLETE...  :grouppray:

He chose the "SUM of ALL the PARTS" that ends up being "us" brother...  ALL the cards dealt to us, are dealt BY HIM, ...good or bad, large or small, rich or poor, bright or dark, ...to display and accomplish HIS PURPOSE for ALL... Which concludes in a GLORIOUS result for ALL, ...in HIM...  :grouppray:

I look upon myself, as WORTHY, simply because He LOVES and chooses to LIVE in me... but in the same instant, only THAT which is HIM, ...IN ME... IS the object of that transforming LOVE... and shall present only THANKFULLNESS to Him, along with the humility of myself, before His presence...  and before His wonderful and much appreciated, LOVE, of ME...

Peace bro... Hope I have answered your questions, cp...  :friendstu:

...willieH  :icon_king:

Willie, again thanks for your well thought out response. Much to ponder as usual.

Again I want to say that I started thinking about these things when I tried to see it like 'people who don't think about these things like we do', do. You got to agree that Jesus and His Father are the best 'riddle' creators around. I mean Jesus could have said what He and His Father were up to in a much simpler way but He chose not to. He could have summed up the whole story and plan in a few words. He knew that the more words He used the more confusing His message would be to us.

You are making me see more clearly though, that Hitler, me, you, satan, Jesus, Mother Theresa, the rapists, the heroes, are all part of one big plan. I also see all people as one unit as well as individuals. Much like I see I have individual cells that make me, me yet I see these cells as one unit too. I see 'Hitler' in me, I see 'Mother Theresa' in me. I cannot seperate my self from all other humans. As in Adam all.................

Thanks again Willie and just know I will be pestering you again soon!

cp

[Molly]

6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

--Gen 4



It seems as if God gives Cain two choices here:

1)Do the right thing and be accepted, or

2)Give sin access to you by not doing well and rule over it.



It also seems as if Cain picks a third choice, leading to his removal from the presence of God--



What hast thou done?

--Gen 4

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Molly! :hithere:

6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

--Gen 4

It seems as if God gives Cain two choices here:

1)Do the right thing and be accepted, or

2)Give sin access to you by not doing well and rule over it.

It also seems as if Cain picks a third choice, leading to his removal from the presence of God--

What hast thou done?

--Gen 4

CAIN does "choose" but his "choice" no matter what, is according to what had already BEEN DECLARED by GOD about that "choice", and in HIS CASE... What was also WRITTEN of that "choice" -- Gen 4

Cain's "choice" did not dictate to the WORD what the WORD would BE... the WORD dictated to Cain's "choice", what the CHOICE would BE...

That it is WRITTEN that he "chose" to do other than he was instructed, was already established... by the WORD of GOD, which does not require TIME or its manifestations in order to BE... PRIOR to the "choice" that was made by Cain, ...eventually being made...

Even though all "choices" of men are not WRITTEN in Scripture, they are all FOREKNOWN by GOD, and thereby the "choices" we make, ...cannot occur alternative to the INDICATIONS of His PERFECT FOREKNOWLEDGE of them... and are in fact made, ...occuring according to His FOREKNOWLEDGE of them, to the letter...

The ONLY POWER that IS, ...is that of GOD -- Rom 13:1

The "Jacob & Esau" notation by Paul in Rom 9:11 -- is the best Scriptural (IMO) notation of this process...  Men "think" they have power, but in the end, ALL POWER is of GOD... and,

ALL CHOICES that men make, are according to His FOREKNOWLEDGE of them, ...NOT... the other way around (which supposes that: God's "foreknowledge" is according to and dictated by the choices of men).

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Molly]

Hi WillieH,

Nice to see you back and going strong.

I don't know--I think if God gives a choice, then it should be strongly considered, and the choice given to Cain is one given to us, as well.  But, I'm even trying to understand the choice he gave Cain--it seems like he is saying--offer up the right sacrifice (the firstborn lamb) or learn how to master sin yourself.

So I'm trying to understand what is being said there--because it seems that if you offer the proper offering in the first place (Christ), then you don't have to master sin because sin won't even be given a foothold.  That seems a lot easier than giving sin an opening and then trying to master sin on your own.

But, Cain did neither--he just gave in to sin and killed his brother.


Interestingly, Jesus is the only one I can think of who  mastered sin himself.


8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

--Heb 5

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi, Molly.......two offerings contrasted; one with blood (lamb) and one without (from the "fruit" of the ground). Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins. Blessings....

[Molly]

:cloud9: Hi, Molly.......two offerings contrasted; one with blood (lamb) and one without (from the "fruit" of the ground). Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins. Blessings....

Yes, and remission can mean more than just pardon or forgiveness--

"remission" [of sin]

G859
ἄφεσις
aphesis
af'-es-is
From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.


So, Cain's second option [mastery over sin] also seems impossible without the blood [of Christ]...?

But, he rejects what is offered to him.

I keep thinking I'm missing something in this story--because [the righteous] Abel is a type of Christ, but the blood of Christ speaks better things than that of Abel--is Cain trying somehow to cover his sin with the blood of his righteous brother?

[Livelystone]

The blood of abel is earthly and cries for revenge

The Blood of Christ is heavenly and cries "you are forgiven ....... go and sin no more"

Blessings

Doug

[peacemaker]

Jesus said, "I AM the RESURRECTION."

He declares that the hour is coming and "now is" when the dead shall hear His voice and live.

I show you a mystery; We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall ALL be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So, when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then, shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.  But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:51-57)

"There is no love without forgiveness, and no forgiveness without love; for what power has love, but forgiveness."

We seem to be in a period of testing and trials to ascertain our fitness, giving the offender freedom to act or make a decision. A period of probation; a time to be considerate or thoughtful by the Grace of God. And the right, power or privilege of making a choice requires judgment, as we live by the consequences of our decisions; right or wrong.

But rest assured, He will rectify the misguided in due time.

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice; but we are predestined to holiness."

This is the state of one who has returned to life from the sting of death.

I was looking over your post that I have quoted and a verse came to mind

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Since we are obviously speaking of a mystery here IMO that is a spiritual headline telling us to dig deep on this passage.......... amen? ......... I think so

So what is the fulness of the Gentiles and the blindness of Israel in regards to one specific person

Could not the Israel in a Christian be that seed that is Christ that is still blind to the truth (from being fed lies in the beginning of our walk) and that part that is "Gentile" be the 'unbelieving spirit of the old man that they were first born with taking back over the body and until the "fulness of their sins" of the "old man" are fulfilled in their life? Then the Israel in them starts its journey out of blindness as the real truths start to become known by the individual versus the #$%^ that they were taught as young believers of Jesus?

Not sure if I was able to say that in a matter that could be understood but all Christians have two opposing spirits in them...... one they were first born with and the other that they were "born again" with when they first came to the Cross.

Maybe I should have started a different thread for this but I see a parallel between what you are saying and what I am trying to say.......... I see this in my own history of accepting Christ at a young age and then leaving God as a modern day prodigal son until I could not stand it anymore despite my success.......... and then as I returned the blindness started to be removed albeit gaining sight was very painful at times.

Comments or opinions?

Here is a comment, or thought for the moment (as my daughter was in an accident, and I haven't much time, but she is doing fine!)

How were we born?
Having two natures, two lives ... twins in the womb?

Where do we live?
Behold, I tell you a mystery, We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed  ... in the dead sea of humanity,
until the times of the flesh be fulfilled?

What is the most significant, Gentile nation of the Bible?
If gentile equates to the nations, and is a reference to the flesh ... people of the flesh?

Two natures beat within my breast; one is foul, the other blest.
The one I love, the one I hate; the one I FEED will dominate.

Man is a twofold creature; both physical and spiritual.

peacemaker

[Molly]

The blood of abel is earthly and cries for revenge

The Blood of Christ is heavenly and cries "you are forgiven ....... go and sin no more"

Blessings

Doug

So Abel represents the righteousness of the law [an eye for an eye]?  And Christ the righteousness of grace?

The law cannot cover;  it can only condemn.


... the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

--Gen 4

[Livelystone]

an eye for an eye meant that you had to pay for the value of the lost eye.............not give up your own eye

[claypot]

PM You wrote....

How were we born?
Having two natures, two lives ... twins in the womb?

Spiritually speaking, Jacob and Esau tells the whole story. Not just 2 fun lovin guys from the Old Testament, but I think they are our 2 natures. Same with the vessels of honor and dishonor. Ain't just talking about God making stuff for His kitchen!

Your words got me thinking, thanks.

cp

[Molly]

1 John 2:4

4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.





14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

--Rev 22

[lsmann2]

1 John 2:4

4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.





14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

--Rev 22

Just one of the many proofs that I'm not "Born Again" today. If I were, I'd have the law written in my heart, and I would do it perfectly. (Jer. 31)

[willieH]

willieH: Hi sisters Rebecca! :hithere: and Molly! :hithere:

:cloud9: Hi, Molly.......two offerings contrasted; one with blood (lamb) and one without (from the "fruit" of the ground). Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins. Blessings....

Exactly... and one could not be REVEALED without the other to contrast it BY the actual displays of BOTH...

GOD has willed CONTRAST be the vision of reality. 

We know INSIDE by OUTSIDE, ...we know UP according to DOWN, ...we know ROUGH by the existence of SMOOTH... and so, ...on and on ever goes the DISPLAY...  :dontknow:

It just so happens that GOD is displaying to ALL via using some -- ordaining them to walk in GOOD WORKS -- Eph 2:10 -- and others NOT -- Rom 9:18

We are indeed "choosing", but it is all according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD, ...GOD's foreknowledge is NOT comprised of OUR CHOOSING, ...our CHOOSING is comprised of HIS PERFECT FOREKNOWLEDGE...  :winkgrin:

We really have no "will" of our own... "Our will" is on exhibit to display that which is CONTRARY to His... Once this is seen in DIVINELY ordained sufficient quantities... this adversity shall CEASE... and ALL things will be done according to HIS WILL which is RIGHTEOUSNESS -- forever.

...willieH  :icon_jokercolor:

[Doc]

willieH: Hi sisters Rebecca! :hithere: and Molly! :hithere:

:cloud9: Hi, Molly.......two offerings contrasted; one with blood (lamb) and one without (from the "fruit" of the ground). Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins. Blessings....

Exactly... and one could not be REVEALED without the other to contrast it BY the actual displays of BOTH...

GOD has willed CONTRAST be the vision of reality. 

We know INSIDE by OUTSIDE, ...we know UP according to DOWN, ...we know ROUGH by the existence of SMOOTH... and so, ...on and on ever goes the DISPLAY...  :dontknow:

It just so happens that GOD is displaying to ALL via using some -- ordaining them to walk in GOOD WORKS -- Eph 2:10 -- and others NOT -- Rom 9:18

We are indeed "choosing", but it is all according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD, ...GOD's foreknowledge is NOT comprised of OUR CHOOSING, ...our CHOOSING is comprised of HIS PERFECT FOREKNOWLEDGE...  :winkgrin:

We really have no "will" of our own... "Our will" is on exhibit to display that which is CONTRARY to His... Once this is seen in DIVINELY ordained sufficient quantities... this adversity shall CEASE... and ALL things will be done according to HIS WILL which is RIGHTEOUSNESS -- forever.

...willieH  :icon_jokercolor:

Yeah, I can see that, Willie. We have choices in much the same way a computer does. The computer makes "decisions" about what it's presented with, but doesn't ultimately control the choices, the programming does. So the choices are preprogrammed decisions within a limited framework of available choices controlled and driven by the program, which has been pre-set.

[claypot]

willieH: Hi sisters Rebecca! :hithere: and Molly! :hithere:

:cloud9: Hi, Molly.......two offerings contrasted; one with blood (lamb) and one without (from the "fruit" of the ground). Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins. Blessings....

Exactly... and one could not be REVEALED without the other to contrast it BY the actual displays of BOTH...

GOD has willed CONTRAST be the vision of reality. 

We know INSIDE by OUTSIDE, ...we know UP according to DOWN, ...we know ROUGH by the existence of SMOOTH... and so, ...on and on ever goes the DISPLAY...  :dontknow:

It just so happens that GOD is displaying to ALL via using some -- ordaining them to walk in GOOD WORKS -- Eph 2:10 -- and others NOT -- Rom 9:18

We are indeed "choosing", but it is all according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD, ...GOD's foreknowledge is NOT comprised of OUR CHOOSING, ...our CHOOSING is comprised of HIS PERFECT FOREKNOWLEDGE...  :winkgrin:

We really have no "will" of our own... "Our will" is on exhibit to display that which is CONTRARY to His... Once this is seen in DIVINELY ordained sufficient quantities... this adversity shall CEASE... and ALL things will be done according to HIS WILL which is RIGHTEOUSNESS -- forever.

...willieH  :icon_jokercolor:

I understand the yin and yang idea and I see it is so for the most part.

Would I know cold if I did not know hot? I could still be cold and not know hot couldn't I?

Could we know good without knowing evil? I would think so, couldn't we?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

God has got to be one very tough Being to put us through so much and to even go through so much Himself.

Willie, not to get into a big 'what about evil' debate, but I want to ask about it. I mean God foreknew some little girl would get raped or some guy would get tortured beyond human comprehension yet He lets it happen. That takes a tough Being to do that.

If I created something knowing it would go through something very very horrible, I would re-think creating it.

Yes, I am not God but..............................

cp