1000-Year Period

[chuckt]

PM, you wrote...

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice.......

So do you think Hitler had a choice to do as He did? I don't want to get into a big free will discussion here but I am really interested in this.

With all the inner and outer, mental, physical, spiritual workings of Hitler, could he have chosen to be a nice guy who delivered pizza for a living and helped old ladies across the street? Was this kind of life style and mind and heart adjustment just a choice away?

Could Hitler have loved Jewish people if he would have chosen to?

cp

anyone who denies, given the right circumstances would do as hitler did, is not ready yet.

i  also love the people who always bring hitler up and say he deserves to spend eternity in torment, they dont even realize they have also asigned the very ones he killed to an eterity of torment.


chuckt

[claypot]

PM, you wrote...

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice.......

So do you think Hitler had a choice to do as He did? I don't want to get into a big free will discussion here but I am really interested in this.

With all the inner and outer, mental, physical, spiritual workings of Hitler, could he have chosen to be a nice guy who delivered pizza for a living and helped old ladies across the street? Was this kind of life style and mind and heart adjustment just a choice away?

Could Hitler have loved Jewish people if he would have chosen to?

cp

anyone who denies, given the right circumstances would do as hitler did, is not ready yet.

i  also love the people who always bring hitler up and say he deserves to spend eternity in torment, they dont even realize they have also asigned the very ones he killed to an eterity of torment.


chuckt

Both good points Chuck. Thanks.

I think we are products of zillions things and most of those zillion things are totally out of our control. I think we have choices that do alter our lives but compared to the other internal and external stimulai that alter our lives I think the things we have control of is minimal.

cp

[Livelystone]

PM, you wrote...

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice.......

So do you think Hitler had a choice to do as He did? I don't want to get into a big free will discussion here but I am really interested in this.

With all the inner and outer, mental, physical, spiritual workings of Hitler, could he have chosen to be a nice guy who delivered pizza for a living and helped old ladies across the street? Was this kind of life style and mind and heart adjustment just a choice away?

Could Hitler have loved Jewish people if he would have chosen to?

cp

anyone who denies, given the right circumstances would do as hitler did, is not ready yet.

i  also love the people who always bring hitler up and say he deserves to spend eternity in torment, they dont even realize they have also asigned the very ones he killed to an eterity of torment.


chuckt

Just as we are saved by grace so were our sins limited by grace. Many times (I speak for myself only) we were limited to not being judged by man but having committed murder in our hearts are still guilty before God. However our Father in His mercy did not permit the thoughts and intents of our hearts to be reflected through the actions and circumstances in our past.

That being said many of us have not been any different nor are we any better then Hitler was even if his murders were many

Keep in mind that Paul when he was Saul was a murderer of Christians but because it was approved of by the existing government he was not charged of a crime by man nevertheless as a bondservant to Christ he lived a life of hardships all the way up until martyrdom............ and was still able to say of himself before his death that he had lived and fought a good fight for the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Blessings

Doug

[Molly]

PM, you wrote...

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice.......

So do you think Hitler had a choice to do as He did? I don't want to get into a big free will discussion here but I am really interested in this.

With all the inner and outer, mental, physical, spiritual workings of Hitler, could he have chosen to be a nice guy who delivered pizza for a living and helped old ladies across the street? Was this kind of life style and mind and heart adjustment just a choice away?

Could Hitler have loved Jewish people if he would have chosen to?

cp

anyone who denies, given the right circumstances would do as hitler did, is not ready yet.

i  also love the people who always bring hitler up and say he deserves to spend eternity in torment, they dont even realize they have also asigned the very ones he killed to an eterity of torment.


chuckt

I'll deny it.   

The majority of people are just trying to get by--hence the banality of evil--it is usually just a common weed, an everyday variety of sloth.

But, real evil is bottomless and knows no bounds, and that is reserved for a select few of unregenerate demons, who through some slight of hand are seemingly never recognized by the masses except in the rear view mirror of history.

Our failing is our inability to see truth when it is staring us in the face, not our propensity for evil.

The day when the general population can see truth all of the time, will be the day of God's will on earth.

[Livelystone]

Satan is not any different today than he was at the time of job when it was God's Will what would happen to him and by whom it was done.

It may be the prayers of parents or it may be for His good pleasure how and why the limits of Satan are set however before the Seed that is Christ came into us our spirit and souls were part of the kingdoms of Satan that he tried to tempt Jesus with after His time and fast in the wilderness.............. If God gave Satan a free hand with any of us and Satan desired any sin to be committed by us........... it came to be.

Blessings

As

[aspiring son]

Some of my take on the 'sufferings' of those who go to the grave still doing and finding no problem with doing evil is this........

Judgement is a good thing. It is a time of revealing what really is. When those who have not really seen sin for what it is, do finally see it, they will be crushed, ashamed, horrified and so on at what they did and what sin has made of them. This, to me, is an outer darkness, gnashing of teeth experience. It is not God torturing anyone or an eternal torment kind of thing, it is what it is.

Now when God shows them how He was involved and how He is making all come out right, that is when salvation and healing will come. Same as with us who know something of salvation now.

cp

Well put CP. And I see where you are coming from.

One thing to remeber about the dead being "tormented or tortured" is that they already are tormented in their state when they are alive. That's like when you tell somenone about UR, and they respond by saying "Oh so I can just go do whatever I want and it will be o.k.

1. If that's what your first response is to that than your revealing your heart, and that's what you would be doing if you didn't believe God would send you to hell for it.

2. That's not freedom! Doing "whatever we want" is what leads us into more bondage. Those who kill, rape, etc. are torured souls as it is. They may say they enjoy what they do, but there is no peace found in them; no freedom from sin at all.

just adding my  :2c:

Grace and peace

[Cardinal]

Just as we are saved by grace so were our sins limited by grace. Many times (I speak for myself only) we were limited to not being judged by man but having committed murder in our hearts are still guilty before God. However our Father in His mercy did not permit the thoughts and intents of our hearts to be reflected through the actions and circumstances in our past.

That being said many of us have not been any different nor are we any better then Hitler was even if his murders were many

Keep in mind that Paul when he was Saul was a murderer of Christians but because it was approved of by the existing government he was not charged of a crime by man nevertheless as a bondservant to Christ he lived a life of hardships all the way up until martyrdom............ and was still able to say of himself before his death that he had lived and fought a good fight for the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Blessings

Doug

:cloud9: This is true but this is a hard saying, as the expression goes. Add to that, that the outer court ones are only doing what they see the spiritual priesthood inner court ones "do" in their hearts, as the body is one but has many parts, and it gets even "stickier".

And which is why Jesus admonished the Pharisees to wash the INSIDE of the cup, not the outside only. But that is still only possible by working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, and the grace of God. So there you go; thus Paul's heartfelt cry, "Who will deliver me out of this body of sin?" Blessings....

[jabcat]

I think we are products of zillions things and most of those zillion things are totally out of our control. I think we have choices that do alter our lives but compared to the other internal and external stimulai that alter our lives I think the things we have control of is minimal.
cp

I'm saying Pharoah was a really swell guy before he decided to fulfill God's purpose for him by choosing to become a derelict  :whistleshake:.     

I believe he certainly made choices in his life, but when it came right down to the bottom line, what does scripture say about God "appointing vessels"? 

[Molly]

But, we have been delivered out of this body of sin, so there is no excuse.





1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

--Rom 8

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Have you ever noticed that the day of the Lord is spoken of some places as being one of fearful judgment and wrath, and in another, as being wonderful on all counts? How could it be both at the same time?

When the soul and spirit are separated, this is called "death". Our body was never alive to begin with as God looks at "live" in the eternal aspects of us, and as it is destined to return to the inanimate dust it came from (until the last "trump").

So let's focus on just these two for now. So since we were born that way, which is why He said let the dead bury the dead, nothing changes that after the veil of this blinding flesh is removed.

The soul and the spirit are still separated at death, just like they were at "birth" here. And so it says, we are only separated from Him in our minds (part of our soulish man), ie. our soul keeps us separated.

Now what happens when we receive Him initially, is we receive the ingrafted Spirit of the Holy One, and thru it begins the, "work out your own salvation (of the soul) with fear and trembling".

This is not an overnight quick fix, nor was it intended to be. This Word that is His breath/Spirit, is working on becoming "celestial" flesh in US; new flesh, Holy flesh, a new tabernacle, not made with hands (works of flesh) of men, reserved in the heavenlies (realm of Spirit) for when this one is dissolved.

So essentially, what we have going on, is God is building an Ark to preserve us, even to the saving of our soul. Now here's the "sticky" part. We have to be willing to lay that soul on the altar, to live. God's ways are not our ways; and this looks backwards to carnal minds. What? We have to die to live?!

When He was rebuking man in the OT, He said, "Have I not said ye are gods and ye die like men?" The key point here is not the gods part of it; the key point here is that God is taking us to task over the MANNER in which we die. There is, 1) like gods, and 2) like men. God is not pleased with the latter choice.

The solution is presented in this; "No greater love has any man than he lay down His life for his friend." Abraham, the father of our faith, was described as God's friend. Abraham knew to lay down all that he had been given (the best he had of his life and it's joys), to live.

But it is appointed once for man to die and then the judgment; there are layers to this, but I'm going only going to share one now. If we die with Him, then we shall also be raised with Him.

So the point is, as it is a great and glorious day to half of our make-up, it is a "terrible day of wrath and judgment" to the other half of our make-up. If, by the time of the death of the body, the two above have not been COMPLETELY reconciled IN HIM, as ONE NEW MAN, then nothing has changed, as His "judgments" are unto victory even unto the saving of the soul.

And so the spirit returns to the One who sent it, but the soul stays bound in a "purgatory" like state awaiting the Redeemer, coming to a realization of repentance, ie. the prodigal son. And what does the Father say to the incomplete son that is spirit? YOU WERE ALWAYS WITH ME, (spirits of just men made perfect) BUT THIS MY SON (soul/He called THEIR name Adam), WAS DEAD.

But let both be reconciled to the perfection of the Father's Spirit, and you have those that were REDEEMED out of every kindred, tongue and nation, crying out from under the altar, "How long O Lord before the rest of our brethren be killed as we were?" This is not a cry for vengeance, this is a cry for LOVE to win out over death, "hell" (as purgatory), and the grave.

Now that altar had a grate, upon which the sacrifices (make of yourselves a living sacrifice) were placed, bound with cords of love that cannot be broken (Love is stronger than DEATH), and the FIRE came upon it CONSUMING the offering. The only thing below that grate then, were ASHES, ie. for your ashes He gives you beauty, the beauty of the Christ nature.

There is nothing in and of itself that makes us whole thru death, it is a thief; but rather it is the meeting of the 4th man in the fire, that makes us whole. And whether we meet Him while still in the body or out of it, the meeting of Him is the judgment of God to our soul, a DAY (He IS the 1000 year day of the Lord) of great and terrible things, but to our spirit, a day of exceeding great joy, once the final trump (message of the mystery of life) has sounded.

Behold, we shall not all (of our parts) sleep (as the soul sleeps), but we shall ALL be raised up (both from above/spirit and from below/soul) at the final trump. This is why the wheat (spirit) and tares (souls spotted by the flesh of sin) are raised up together, and why when HE arose, many arose with Him. Blessings.....

[jabcat]

But, we have been delivered out of this body of sin, so there is no excuse.

God's work through us...in those He chooses.  In those He chooses, He is the Author and Finisher..I've yet to see anyone choose to live for God in their own strength and it worked...there is none good. 

[Molly]

But, we have been delivered out of this body of sin, so there is no excuse.

God's work through us...in those He chooses.  In those He chooses, He is the Author and Finisher..I've yet to see anyone choose to live for God in their own strength and it worked...there is none good. 

The holiness movement? No.

Neither have I known many who spent their time searching out all truth.  If there were more, this world would be a better place to live.

[jabcat]

Ah Mol, I grew up in and around it.  Full of angry, judgmental, "wear dresses to a certain length, pile your long hair on your head in a bee-hive, don't wear make-up, don't own a TV, better not ever go to a movie, or a dance, or to major league baseball game, or say 'darn', or men's hair better not touch their collar, or women wear pants, or men shorts, or...."  Then look down on anyone not fitting that mold as "not saved, full of the devil, on your way to A DEVIL'S HA-EL!!!! 

Sure, I agree...if we all made better choices it would be a good thing...however, I believe God has certain purposes and plans, and He's choosing who He will to accomplish those ends...bigger than I can really comprehend, but that's how I see it  :icon_rr:.

Blessings, friend.

[legoman]

Ok just reading through this thread again and having some thoughts.  Need to jot this down and see what others think.

First: WOW.

- the day of the Lord is NOW - its this life?
- we are being judged NOW
- we are going through "eternal" (aionios) torment right NOW
- we don't have rest, day or night, right NOW (Rev 14:11)
- we (believers) are not hurt of the second death (lake of fire), but we still go through it?
- this is because we realize what is happening, we are all being judged now?
- it will only take a nanosecond for Hitler to realize He was wrong when He see's God?
- likewise for everyone else?
- revelations is, was, and will be, therefore the lake of fire is NOW..?
- WHEN were we thrown into the lake of fire?

Just some thoughts, some still questions, but I see possibilities.

Help!  And again: WOW.

Legoman

[legoman]

Ok just reading through this thread again and having some thoughts.  Need to jot this down and see what others think.

First: WOW.

- the day of the Lord is NOW - its this life?
- we are being judged NOW
- we are going through "eternal" (aionios) torment right NOW
- we don't have rest, day or night, right NOW (Rev 14:11)
- we (believers) are not hurt of the second death (lake of fire), but we still go through it?
- this is because we realize what is happening, we are all being judged now?
- it will only take a nanosecond for Hitler to realize He was wrong when He see's God?
- likewise for everyone else?
- revelations is, was, and will be, therefore the lake of fire is NOW..?
- WHEN were we thrown into the lake of fire?

Just some thoughts, some still questions, but I see possibilities.

Help!  And again: WOW.

Legoman

Another point.  If the above is TRUE, and the lake of fire is NOW... then the elect are the ministers, priests, kings, and judges right NOW.  We (if we are elect) should be helping others to see the truth (if that is God's plan).  That is how we judge the world... we are bringing people "through the fire" so to speak and to realize that it is all God's plan, God is good, He will save all, and He is teaching us all right now.

Possibility?

And furthermore, those who have aionios life, have it right NOW.  While others will NEVER see this life, because they are living the life of the damned, right NOW.  They have been resurrected to damnation, maybe?

Where does the resurrection fit in here?  It must be still at the end of the age...?

WOW so many thoughts swirling here.  I'm scaring myself at the possibilities.

Legoman

[Livelystone]

That was quite a post Cardinal .......... you are a woman after God, to know Him, to become one with Him.

I just got back in so I am going to have to spend some more time with what you have shared here

Blessings

Doug

[peacemaker]

So do you think Hitler had a choice to do as He did? I don't want to get into a big free will discussion here but I am really interested in this.

With all the inner and outer, mental, physical, spiritual workings of Hitler, could he have chosen to be a nice guy who delivered pizza for a living and helped old ladies across the street? Was this kind of life style and mind and heart adjustment just a choice away?

Could Hitler have loved Jewish people if he would have chosen to?

And let the one who hears say, "Come."
And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes (worthy or unworthy) take the water of life without cost.

[jabcat]

And let the one who hears say, "Come."
And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes (worthy or unworthy) take the water of life without cost.

Great scripture.  In its context, IMO, it's especially awesome.  What's happening in that chapter, who's being primarily addressed, and when?

Here's another one for thought, with the same questions as the three above being applicable.

They said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

[peacemaker]

God's work through us...in those He chooses. 

To "Select" indicates that of a choice made based on fitness for the task at hand. And to appoint is synonymous with select, or chosen; elect.

peacemaker

(context, context, context ...)

[jabcat]

I'll stand by the point.  When taken in proper context, I believe scripture does teach that God chooses.  Don't you think God has a "task at hand" for those he chooses?  Definitions of the ecclesia include "called out..set aside for a specific purpose".  Not all are chosen in this lifetime.  I won't get into all the scriptures and reasons why I believe this is so.  You've probably already heard them at one time or another.   There probably is a whole other discussion about called/chosen and exactly what that means.  Don't see anything in your post though that negates this;  "God's work through us...in those He chooses."

Although I believe it often takes a body of many scriptures examined and revealed to a doctrine make, I'll include one here.  Maybe I'm missing something; if there's further necessary context involved, great, let's honestly look at it, with neither resorting to unhelpful sarcasm.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (King James Version)  But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth...

So again, addressing the earlier posts;  if both (and all) scriptures are "universally, primarily applicable" to just however we want to use them, then we would have a contradiction in the two verses in the earlier posts above.  And I don't believe scripture contradicts itself when taken in proper context, is Spirit-revealed, and rightly divided. 

[willieH]

willieH: Hi cp... :hithere:

As always you propose the thoughts of a curious and seeking mind!  :thumbsup:  :happyclap:

Willie, You have helped with your words. I fully understand that God could have stopped Hitler anytime and the rapist and so forth. I understand too some of the responsibility of God in all things.

GOD is the Creator of ALL THINGS... and therefore RESPONSIBLE for (1) their existence (2) their positions in proximity to good and evil for (3) He is the emergent center of this knowledge (4) has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all things so NOTHING "surprises" Him (5) has a PURPOSE in which He uses ALL THINGS to bring them to their respective conclusions... and much more! 

Responsible?  I'd say the "buck" starts and ends with Him -- Rev 1:8 :yes:

I started asking my recent questions just to explain how hard it is for the average person today to understand, well, grace. Grace is amazing. It forgives and cleans up 'Hitler' as well as Mother Theresa. It just does.

But it is no wonder how people mostly can't understand this. I think this is mostly an American thing too although not limited to Americans. I mean we are taught that the bad guys got to pay the ultimate price for their badness while the good guys win out. It's hard to understand that good guys and bad guys just are and that's the way it is.

Let's try a hypothetical scenario... What if "Hitler" (who, btw was born to the FAMILY GOD chose, and WHEN God chose, and in the ERA -- GOD chose, and was placed amongst the environment GOD chose - ad infinitum)... were born as FRANKLIN GRAHAM instead of the fam & era he was BORN in, via GOD's choices...

Do you think he would've become the same VILE, and DESTRUCTIVE person he became? Under the tutiledge of Billy Graham?  Whatcha think?  :JCThink:

So Willie, are you thinking that people who enjoy doing evil and spend their days here on earth doing so.......do you think they eventually just go through the same process as you and I to be made in the image of God?

People who "enjoy" evil?  In observing (as a counsellor in a homeless shelter), many persons who, by their own bad decisions and involvements in evil, became "destroyed" as far as a HOME, and or NORMAL life might involve... almost to a person, noted very TROUBLED and ANXIETY ridden minds...

It is easy to observe a "serial killer", and deduce him as LESS than yourself... For he appears to "enjoy" his actions... however... deeper scrutiny upon such a mind (if in fact he/she is subdued by authorities), often reveals a VERY TROUBLED PATHWAY...

Let us take our "serial killer" and name his victims as WOMEN...

In other words Let's list some possible things which may have "occured" upon the "PATHWAY" to Serial Killing (without making excuse for that negative behavior),

This person might have been ...BEATEN in childhood by women (mother, sisters, neighborhood kids, etc),  ...REJECTED by them in adolsescence (turned down for dates, laughed upon at school dances, mocked by them for his "2nd hand clothing", etc),  ...FIRED in the workplace (by female supervisors, or maybe by false accusations made by female co-workers)...

NONE of these facts are known by YOU... only his "enjoyment" of evil, which is seen in his "Serial Killings"... 

My point is, that GOD only knows in many cases, the deep bruising and sorrow which we have, and MEN cannot see... Which is why He said NOT to JUDGE, and COMMANDED we FORGIVE enemies...  :dontknow:

Willie you say the negativity we see in man is purposed. I imagine you mean purposed by God, correct?

I believe we walk in this life according to HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE of our lives... and NOTHING of GOD is vain... however, ALL of this life -- that which MEN do (the entire CREATION)... has been SUBJECTED to VANITY -- BY Him... Rom 8:20-21

I see some people who do evil as incapable of doing otherwise at least at the time they are doing it. Do you think a guy who can just up and kill another person almost just for the fun of it could do otherwise?

No... if it occurs, the act is DECLARED to be so... And I really don't think any killing is ever (foundationally done -- in the deepest portion of the offender)... for the "fun of it"...

If there were no such thing as DIRTY, how could we possibly know what CLEAN was?  God in WISDOM has created this scenario in which we live and die, to teach us the Universal applications and NECESSITY of OPPOSITES. 

In this, the GOOD that GOD IS -- to the "extreme", ...is being displayed by EVIL -- in the very SAME "extreme"...  :dontknow:  And "we" are the "players" in the "play"... :yes: ...WRITTEN by the Great PLAYWRITE... who's NAME is LOVE!  :myahoo:

Do we all kill others like Jesus said when He spoke about us being angry with another is like murder? So are the rapists and killers that abound in the physical just like us who do it in the realm of the mind?

JESUS noted that the things which occur in the mind, are the very same as carrying out that "thought" in the Physical...  If I call you a name in thought, and don't do so in the physical... am I, because I didn't AUDIBLIZE my thought, still a "good guy"  Or are you silently DECIEVED by my REAL thoughts of you?  You are oblivious of my corrupted character concerning you... but inside, ...I am the same BUM that I would be considered by such derrogatory condescension, even though I didn't make YOU aware of it...  :sigh:

I will probably never kill another human and will probably always see it as wrong while another will do the deed without hardly a thought. Is this just how we are made? I have my reasons for not killing or raping in the physical. I seem to be guided by an inner make up that makes certain things very unappealing to me yet others have not this make up in them so they can do things I would never do.

Many are called, FEW are chosen, cp... You are ORDAINED to walk in GOOD WORKS, if indeed you WALK in them - eh?  Eph 2:10

By the same token... another is NOT chosen to "walk in them"... and consequently, we have killers and rapists amongst us... which were KNOWN, before they were BORN, and have "walked" otherwise, yet were BORN nevertheless!  :dontknow:

So Willie, would you say a rapist, because of his make up will rape while you or I probably won't ever rape because stuff in our make up will keep us from such a deed?

There is not ONE speck of dust upon the earth, that does not have a particular place in the wisdom and power of GOD... HE works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS OWN WILL... Eph 1:11 -- that disincludes NOTHING...

Your or my abstanation from evil, only shall serve to bring to humility (and rightly so), to those who (in this life) do NOT abstain...

GOD decided who MOSES would be... and who HITLER would be bro...  So let us not "pat" MOSES on the back too excessively, nor "slam" HITLER in the same extreme... instead, within ourselves, let us be humble, and call for HIS mercy to be UPON ALL... and thereby agree with what Peter said:  2 Peter 3:9

Would you say that a person who rapes or murders is really no better or worse than anybody else in God's eyes?

cp

God is NO RESPECTER of persons... which says to me, that no matter what I DO... NOTHING can be considered GOOD which has emerged from ME!  Only that which CHRIST has done IN ME, and that displays HIM in me, can be considered GOOD...  the "ME" that is ME, is dung... and is that which must be COMPLETELY ousted from the existence which is "me", and replaced with HIM...

He took upon Himself the SIN of the WORLD, ...If I consider that even ONE MOMENT of SIN which has occured IN ME in my life here on earth, was enough to KILL HIM... then how may I judge another "troubled" and likely less fortunate (according to His WILL), other?  :pitiful:  Such as a "rapist", or "Hitler" or my next door neighbor, or even, "Franklin Graham"?

For the pathway of "Hitler" was given to "Hitler" because GOD chose him to be "Hitler"... and the pathway of "willieH" was given to "willieH", because GOD chose me to be "willieH"... I could have been "Hitler"... so conclusively, I root for GOD's LONG and LOVING arms to reach "Hitler" ...that GOD's Holy "FAM" be completely COMPLETE...  :grouppray:

He chose the "SUM of ALL the PARTS" that ends up being "us" brother...  ALL the cards dealt to us, are dealt BY HIM, ...good or bad, large or small, rich or poor, bright or dark, ...to display and accomplish HIS PURPOSE for ALL... Which concludes in a GLORIOUS result for ALL, ...in HIM...  :grouppray:

I look upon myself, as WORTHY, simply because He LOVES and chooses to LIVE in me... but in the same instant, only THAT which is HIM, ...IN ME... IS the object of that transforming LOVE... and shall present only THANKFULLNESS to Him, along with the humility of myself, before His presence...  and before His wonderful and much appreciated, LOVE, of ME...

Peace bro... Hope I have answered your questions, cp...  :friendstu:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[jabcat]

Good post, Willi.  cp really is asking some good questions and making some good points, isn't he?   :2thumbs:

[Molly]

Ah Mol, I grew up in and around it.  Full of angry, judgmental, "wear dresses to a certain length, pile your long hair on your head in a bee-hive, don't wear make-up, don't own a TV, better not ever go to a movie, or a dance, or to major league baseball game, or say 'darn', or men's hair better not touch their collar, or women wear pants, or men shorts, or...."  Then look down on anyone not fitting that mold as "not saved, full of the devil, on your way to A DEVIL'S HA-EL!!!! 

Sure, I agree...if we all made better choices it would be a good thing...however, I believe God has certain purposes and plans, and He's choosing who He will to accomplish those ends...bigger than I can really comprehend, but that's how I see it  :icon_rr:.

Blessings, friend.

That sounds like a somewhat superficial vision of 'holiness.'  We know he means us to be free.  But, those who know they carry this treasure in earthen vessels have an innate dignity that does not need to be regulated.

6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

--2 Cor 4

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Just read your post WillieH.....a resounding  :thumbsup: I witness to being shown the same things......blessings to you......... :HeartThrob:

[peacemaker]

God's work through us...in those He chooses. 

To "Select" indicates that of a choice made based on fitness for the task at hand. And to appoint is synonymous with select, or chosen; elect.

peacemaker

(context, context, context ...)

"Every action, has an equal and opposite reaction."

If your last line is sarcasm, that's unfortunate, and IMO, is one reason there's so much confusion in the body.  If it's just to be obnoxious, you were successful. 

If both (and all) scriptures are "universally, primarily applicable" to just however we want to use them, then don't we have a contradiction in the two verses above?  I don't believe scripture contradicts itself when taken in proper context, is Spirit-revealed, and rightly divided.

IMO, It's not a mish-mash to pull out whatever isolated pieces we wish to make a point which we already believe.  I've done it a thousand times, by the way, but that doesn't make it helpful.

« Last Edit: Today at 05:00:58 PM by jabcat »   

It was not meant as a form of wit, ridicule, nor that of taunting. Rather, the whole of Scripture is taken into account, not just bits and pieces, as you rightly pointed out. And the confusion comes from one's understanding, not in the amount of verses that are, or aren't posted.

My apologies for being successfully, obnoxious.

The contradiction could only be in the timing, as the Book of Revelation is the Life of Christ. Yet, many are waiting for a future coming to take place, not one near or at hand.

peacemaker