Wrath has an end

[trettep]

1Th 2:16  Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Look up that bolded word in your Bible and see where else it is used and how it is translated and you will find it is a finite word meaning "end".

This shows the Bible speaks of God's Wrath as having an end.

This supports further the case of universal salvation.  Just wanted to drop a note as I was thinking about it.

Paul

[legoman]

Yep, look at this one too, its pretty clear:

Rev 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God's wrath is completed.

Of course ETers will say just say God has finished delivering His wrath, but the wrath will go on forever by itself... blah blah blah

There are several verses like this that speak of God's anger ending:

Isaiah 57:16
I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me— the breath of man that I have created.

Peace.

[trettep]

Yes, another good find legoman.  I don't see how people can come to these forums and read such things as the content here at tentmaker site and not see that Universal Salvation is at the core of God's Wonderful Gospel message.  I'm still so happy that God has opened my eyes to this message. 

Paul

[peacemaker]

"When we reach the end of our journey, we will be in His Presence." :gthumbsup:

peacemaker

[Cardinal]

"When we reach the end of our journey, we will be in His Presence." :gthumbsup:

peacemaker

:cloud9: AMEN, quote of the day....... :thumbsup: Make it soon, Lord......

[Tim B]

Yes, another good find legoman.  I don't see how people can come to these forums and read such things as the content here at tentmaker site and not see that Universal Salvation is at the core of God's Wonderful Gospel message.  I'm still so happy that God has opened my eyes to this message. 

Paul

The best message on the planet!  :bigGrin:

[Zeek]

"When we reach the end of our journey, we will be in His Presence." :gthumbsup:

peacemaker

:cloud9: AMEN, quote of the day....... :thumbsup: Make it soon, Lord......

why can't the journey itself be in his presence??  why do we have to always live in hope, rather than hope fulfilled?? 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's a very good point Zeek, and it is.  :thumbsup: What I was thinking of in my previous post was, the aspect of no more "going in and out" and full manifestation. Blessings....

[legoman]

Yes, another good find legoman.  I don't see how people can come to these forums and read such things as the content here at tentmaker site and not see that Universal Salvation is at the core of God's Wonderful Gospel message.  I'm still so happy that God has opened my eyes to this message. 

Paul

The best message on the planet!  :bigGrin:

It always amazes me when you present the best message on the planet to someone, they either get the "deer in headlights look", or yell, kick, and scream till you go away.

God's delusion is strong.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, it is, that's for sure. Thank God He had mercy on us to remove that delusion, Amen? Blessings....

[Nathan]

God's delusion is strong . . interesting way of putting it.

There is a well-known passage that Jesus states "When I am lifted up, I will draw all men unto me . . ." interestingly, that is yet another passage pointing toward UR as well . . .but my point in this little phrase is that word "draw".  I found it most interesting  to learn that it actually means . . .you ready?  It means to "drag".  yeah, kinda throws the freewill thing out the window . . .if man has a freewill . .then why would Jesus experience at the cross (lifted up) drag us to the father.  

The same word is used when Peter "drew" his sword . .the earth's gravitational pull of the sword required Peter's hand to literally drag it out from the sheath . . .the carnality of man's gravitational pull requires God's hand to literally pull us closer into him . . .pretty cool picture being "drawn" there.

[legoman]

Yep God will drag us all!  (some of us kicking and screaming no doubt!)

Regarding God's strong delusions, we are told of it right here:

2 Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


What is part of the strong delusion that most of mankind believes in?  IMHO Namely that we have free will and that God is going to torment most everyone else (but them) eternally.

[Nathan]

Yeah, I agree with ya there and I'd even add that not only those that beleive in eternal torment, but also those that believe in annihilation as well.  The idea that God will do either really, forces the question to then be asked, why would God create a being in his own image that he was just going to turn around and destroy . . . it's also degrading the power of the cross.

They are still saying that the mind of man is stronger than the blood of the lamb.  If I do not conciously, mindfully acknowledge Jesus is Lord, then to hell with me . . .yeah, that's the epitome of love right there. 

The Word may lead us to truth . .but the word itself doesn't set me free, Just look around . . so many people are bound and trying to bind others by their version of what they think the Word is declaring . . .when the reality of God is, it's the spirit revealing the Word that sets men free.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, Nathan....... :thumbsup: and  :girlheart: great to see you back posting......

[legoman]

Yeah, I agree with ya there and I'd even add that not only those that beleive in eternal torment, but also those that believe in annihilation as well.  The idea that God will do either really, forces the question to then be asked, why would God create a being in his own image that he was just going to turn around and destroy . . . it's also degrading the power of the cross.

They are still saying that the mind of man is stronger than the blood of the lamb.  If I do not conciously, mindfully acknowledge Jesus is Lord, then to hell with me . . .yeah, that's the epitome of love right there. 

The Word may lead us to truth . .but the word itself doesn't set me free, Just look around . . so many people are bound and trying to bind others by their version of what they think the Word is declaring . . .when the reality of God is, it's the spirit revealing the Word that sets men free.

Agreed.  In actuality I think the "strong delusion" is layers of layers of lies that Satan sets up throughout this world.  This would include:
- those who don't believe in God
- those who believe in ET or annihilation
- those who believe in the multitude of false religions
- those who believe man's will is stronger than God's will
etc.

And there are many other lies we aren't even aware of.  Politics, government, military, wars, big corporations - we don't really know whats going on most of the time.

There are likely still delusions in my own life that I am completely unaware of.  Only God can open my eyes, slowly according to His plan.  I pray quite often for God to give me more understanding.

Sometimes I truly feel lost in the sea.

Peace...

[chuckt]

good thread. :happy3:

[chuckt]

Yeah, I agree with ya there and I'd even add that not only those that beleive in eternal torment, but also those that believe in annihilation as well.  The idea that God will do either really, forces the question to then be asked, why would God create a being in his own image that he was just going to turn around and destroy . . . it's also degrading the power of the cross.

They are still saying that the mind of man is stronger than the blood of the lamb.  If I do not conciously, mindfully acknowledge Jesus is Lord, then to hell with me . . .yeah, that's the epitome of love right there. 

The Word may lead us to truth . .but the word itself doesn't set me free, Just look around . . so many people are bound and trying to bind others by their version of what they think the Word is declaring . . .when the reality of God is, it's the spirit revealing the Word that sets men free.

Agreed.  In actuality I think the "strong delusion" is layers of layers of lies that Satan sets up throughout this world.  This would include:
- those who don't believe in God
- those who believe in ET or annihilation
- those who believe in the multitude of false religions
- those who believe man's will is stronger than God's will
etc.

And there are many other lies we aren't even aware of.  Politics, government, military, wars, big corporations - we don't really know whats going on most of the time.

There are likely still delusions in my own life that I am completely unaware of.  Only God can open my eyes, slowly according to His plan.  I pray quite often for God to give me more understanding.

Sometimes I truly feel lost in the sea.

Peace...

well you are in good hands, the key is humility, and UR  has lead me to see this humility more than any other doctrine.

peace
chuclt aka euty

[Nathan]

I think this may be one of the biggest and most important reasons why we are called to walk in the spirit.  If we focus our attention upon the tangible activities and situations around us . .including the doctrines of men . . . in our limited understanding of the kingdom of things, we can easily get caught up in the same deception as many others have found themselves consumed in.  An eagle in the air is only beneficial to another eagle molting on the ground, when the first eagle remains in the air and doesn't become entangled in the things of the earth as well.

[Cardinal]

An eagle in the air is only beneficial to another eagle molting on the ground, when the first eagle remains in the air and doesn't become entangled in the things of the earth as well.

:cloud9: Never heard this last line before Nate, but that was RICH.  :thumbsup: Blessings...

[Nathan]

The down-draft can be devastating if we're flying to close to the earth to start with.

[sheila]

   this is a really edifying thread!

   Blessed me greatly  :girlheart:

      Thanks!

[rosered]

   This is a wondeful thread , Thanks  to you all.
  I have thought when reading Rev 16 about Babylon [confusion by mixing ] that all the wrath of God would end in her [ that place of being confused by the mixing of Law and grace and flesh and spirit  ]and the
falsity and delusion  would  have an End for sure
   as it is also written   when satan [ adversary  etc ]  is divided by adversary  it has that end too[5056 greek]  telos

te'-los (Key)

Part of Speech
neuter noun

Root Word (Etymology)

from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

TDNT Reference
8:49,1161
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) end

a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)

b) the end

1) the last in any succession or series

2) eternal

c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue

d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose

2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)


  praise God !!! when we quit  doubting and  begin to fully trust  Gods will as the only will that ever works the perfect work  , no matter how much our flesh and emotions fight against  it  and how unfair  this life seems to us and others , than we begin to have that peace of Jesus Christ that  surpasses all understanding  :HeartThrob: :happy3:  but to get to that place takes many of trials and failures and experiences on our part,  to me anyways  :mblush: and this life is but a vapour compared to eternal Life in Christ , that has NO END!!  :cloud9: :icon_flower:    YAHOOOOOO!
   and to  be complete[whole/ mature /perfect] in Christ [His Body ] is a sure   Joy unspeakable and FULL OF GLORY to God our heavenly Father
  how wonderful is that!!    there are times in the Spirit we taste  this even now !!  and oh to dwell in that present place  IN HIM, can only  be    GLORY AND PRAISE TO HIS HOLY name !!
an amen for sure .... on that  friends .......

Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. tello

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. Strong's G1096 - ginomai γίνομαι
Transliteration
ginomai
Pronunciation

gē'-no-mī (Key)

Part of Speech
verb

a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb

TDNT Reference
1:681,117
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

a) of events

3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

a) of men appearing in public

4) to be made, finished

a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought

5) to become, be made