Fear and Calamity

[trettep]

Verse 4 and verse 11 of luke Chapter 13 both use the word "eighteen".  That is telling us something but not sure what.  My studys have lead me to believe that an ancient calendar day had 18 parts to it in total (night and day).

Paul

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thanks for the site link; it looks interesting. Blessings..

[peacemaker]

Verse 4 and verse 11 of luke Chapter 13 both use the word "eighteen".  That is telling us something but not sure what.  My studys have lead me to believe that an ancient calendar day had 18 parts to it in total (night and day).

It appears that Jesus was using the number eighteen, repetitiously, indicating that the woman's infirmity was not her fault, nor should it be interpreted as a form of punishment. Apparently, following the same line of thought as in the eighteen whom the tower in Siloam fell upon, or even those in Italy who recently died for that matter.

However, it is interesting that Jesus called to her in the presence of those who socially through their own religiosity, devalued the life of others while at the same time, exalted themselves and their animals.

peacemaker

[Raggedy Anne]

Verse 4 and verse 11 of luke Chapter 13 both use the word "eighteen".  That is telling us something but not sure what.  My studys have lead me to believe that an ancient calendar day had 18 parts to it in total (night and day).

It appears that Jesus was using the number eighteen, repetitiously, indicating that the woman's infirmity was not her fault, nor should it be interpreted as a form of punishment. Apparently, following the same line of thought as in the eighteen whom the tower in Siloam fell upon, or even those in Italy who recently died for that matter.

However, it is interesting that Jesus called to her in the presence of those who socially through their own religiosity, devalued the life of others while at the same time, exalted themselves and their animals.

peacemaker

I assume we are talking now about the woman who had an "issue of blood" for 12 years.  I've often mused on that story.   She had AN ISSUE OF BLOOD.  In my church days, I was always told that she had a menstruation problem, but I have never settled that for myself.  I think in the bigger picture, the entire "woman of God" has a bleeding problem, and has had a bleeding problem since Adam was lowered into mortality.   I appreciate the explanations about the number eighteen.  Sheila's post was very thought-provoking... 'do we want to die ignorant'  or do we want to 'get an understanding first' ?  Either way, we are still appointed to pass through the valley of the shadow of death.  The scriptures point out that that woman, 'BEING A DAUGHTER OF GOD' ought to be loosed from such bondage.   Almost every place I looked this up on the internet was a teaching concerned with gaining a physical healing and or focusing on a literal interpretation. 

Mark 5:25-34 (King James Version)

25And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

26And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

27When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

28For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

29And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

30And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

31And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

32And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

33But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Another way to look at 18; 6+6+6, the mark of the beast, imperfect spirit, soul and body....Blessings...

[trettep]

Verse 4 and verse 11 of luke Chapter 13 both use the word "eighteen".  That is telling us something but not sure what.  My studys have lead me to believe that an ancient calendar day had 18 parts to it in total (night and day).

It appears that Jesus was using the number eighteen, repetitiously, indicating that the woman's infirmity was not her fault, nor should it be interpreted as a form of punishment. Apparently, following the same line of thought as in the eighteen whom the tower in Siloam fell upon, or even those in Italy who recently died for that matter.

However, it is interesting that Jesus called to her in the presence of those who socially through their own religiosity, devalued the life of others while at the same time, exalted themselves and their animals.

peacemaker

I assume we are talking now about the woman who had an "issue of blood" for 12 years.  I've often mused on that story.   She had AN ISSUE OF BLOOD.  In my church days, I was always told that she had a menstruation problem, but I have never settled that for myself.  I think in the bigger picture, the entire "woman of God" has a bleeding problem, and has had a bleeding problem since Adam was lowered into mortality.   I appreciate the explanations about the number eighteen.  Sheila's post was very thought-provoking... 'do we want to die ignorant'  or do we want to 'get an understanding first' ?  Either way, we are still appointed to pass through the valley of the shadow of death.  The scriptures point out that that woman, 'BEING A DAUGHTER OF GOD' ought to be loosed from such bondage.   Almost every place I looked this up on the internet was a teaching concerned with gaining a physical healing and or focusing on a literal interpretation. 

Mark 5:25-34 (King James Version)

25And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

26And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

27When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

28For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

29And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

30And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

31And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

32And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

33But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

What do you mean by saying that Adam was lowered into mortality?  That would seem to imply that at one time Adam was immortal.   What is immortal can never become mortal - that defeats the meaning of the name immortal - does it not?  After all if the gift we receive in Christ is immortality then it isn't much of a gift it it means we can still become mortal.

Paul

[WhiteWings]

What do you mean by saying that Adam was lowered into mortality?  That would seem to imply that at one time Adam was immortal.   What is immortal can never become mortal - that defeats the meaning of the name immortal - does it not? 

So it's beyond the power of God to turn an immortal in a mortal?
He can only turn mortals into immortals?

After all if the gift we receive in Christ is immortality then it isn't much of a gift it it means we can still become mortal.

I see the gift as a promise from God that He will forever sustain our life. He doesn't break that promise (but has the power to do so)
So the question is this: Did God make the same promise to Adam? If nothing is promised nothing can broken.

[sparrow]

trettep...
regarding mortal/immortal.

Maybe try thinking of it this way..


Adam is immortal (at his core.)
However, he is mortal (meaning he would die) once he "stepped" onto this earth.

He was only mortal when he was outside of the garden of eden.
Once he physically died from this realm, then he put back on immortality.
And it's a good thing! If he were immortal while on earth, then we'd all be in trouble.

does that make sense?
It's like only PART of Adam BECAME mortal.
The reason being, that part of Adam that became mortal was SUPPOSED to die.
It was created... TO die.
To NOT last forever, but just for a season.
To learn something he otherwise could not have learned.

As soon as we are born, we are dying.
(Thank God.)

I know what I'm trying to say, but can't quite get the words.  :laughing7:

[jabcat]

Wouldn't Jesus, at least in a sense, His earthly being, have become mortal for 33 years? :Chinscratch:.  May be just another heretical view to some, but I believe our spirit (immortal) have always been so, as upon death they RE-turn to God, from "whence it came"...so IMO, those immortal spirits (little pieces of God?) were indeed lowered into these bodies of flesh, sin, and death...for a season...to be reunited and to "put on immortality".  I could be wrong, thinking out loud here...I'll get back out  :laughing7:.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Then I'm a heretic with you, Jabcat.  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Yeah Cardinal and Jabcat. Global warming is the least of your worries :sigh:

[Doc]

That's the way I currently see it too; Jab and Card. Yet it also seems that the immortality of our spirit is still "conditional" in that it has its source in God. He can give it and remove it. Part of the confusion for me is the interplay between our bodies, souls and spirits. If we have an "immortal" part of us, then it is clearly the spirit, as that seems to come directly from God, but our physical bodies are clearly not, and our souls are perhaps not immortal either? I'm still confused with respect to the scriptural witness on this.

I'm curious as to what your responses to this article would be: http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess022a.htm

This guy is UR, and some of the articles he has are right on and others I sense wander off into left field...So I'm curious as to the group's critique of his use of the scriptures on this. He seems very much in what one would call the "conditional immortality camp".

[jabcat]

Yeah Cardinal and Jabcat. Global warming is the least of your worries :sigh:

Are you condemning me again?  :punish: :prankster:  That's White Wings in the middle, and me on the ends..before and after.

[martincisneros]

Are you condemning me again?  :punish: :prankster:  That's White Wings in the middle, and me on the ends..before and after.

:eek: WhiteWings wasn't condemning you. :beerburp: :rocker :bdaycake:

[martincisneros]

:prankster: 

You were that way before WhiteWings came along!  Don't feel bad about that.  I'm not far behind. :gamer:

[jabcat]

Nah, you're right.  You know, no matter all the bad things the newspapers report about that White Wings, he's a pretty nice fella  :hihat:.

[martincisneros]

Nah, you're right.  You know, no matter all the bad things the newspapers report about that White Wings, he's a pretty nice fella  :hihat:.

Newspapers?  I'll have to show him sometime how to stay out of the press if he flew into the offices of the Washington Post and the New York Times carrying Lois Lane with an (S) on his back.  There's a way of doing it, where you can avoid media coverage even if you flew across nbc studios in your underwear to where it was abundantly clear that there were no support wires or studio effects pulling that stunt off.

And I did not wander from the focus of this thread 'cause the media is conceited enough to think that they report on all things newsworthy, but all in that instance definitely doesn't mean all because of the UFOs, government cover ups of the Vice President profanely asserting in front of everybody that Obama didn't kick the new family dog, and government cover ups of Obama saying he did, but it was during the campaign when he was running for President. :icon_jokercolor:

I stand by what I originally said that in a narrative we're not required to understand that all would mean all in every single instance, while in the plainly written doctrinal parts of the Scriptures, if all doesn't mean all, then we're at a loss for what any of it is talking about!

[jabcat]

Good point (not the underwear part, the doctrinal "all" part).

[trettep]

What do you mean by saying that Adam was lowered into mortality?  That would seem to imply that at one time Adam was immortal.   What is immortal can never become mortal - that defeats the meaning of the name immortal - does it not? 

So it's beyond the power of God to turn an immortal in a mortal?
He can only turn mortals into immortals?

After all if the gift we receive in Christ is immortality then it isn't much of a gift it it means we can still become mortal.

I see the gift as a promise from God that He will forever sustain our life. He doesn't break that promise (but has the power to do so)
So the question is this: Did God make the same promise to Adam? If nothing is promised nothing can broken.

If you want to believe that immortality means the ability to become mortal then go ahead.  I will continue to believe contrarywise.

Paul

[trettep]

trettep...
regarding mortal/immortal.

Maybe try thinking of it this way..


Adam is immortal (at his core.)
However, he is mortal (meaning he would die) once he "stepped" onto this earth.

He was only mortal when he was outside of the garden of eden.
Once he physically died from this realm, then he put back on immortality.
And it's a good thing! If he were immortal while on earth, then we'd all be in trouble.

does that make sense?
It's like only PART of Adam BECAME mortal.
The reason being, that part of Adam that became mortal was SUPPOSED to die.
It was created... TO die.
To NOT last forever, but just for a season.
To learn something he otherwise could not have learned.

As soon as we are born, we are dying.
(Thank God.)

I know what I'm trying to say, but can't quite get the words.  :laughing7:

No, as I don't believe Adam ever had immortality.  Why need a Tree of Life if you have immortality?  Yet Adam was given the choice to choose from it.

Paul

[peacemaker]

Good point (not the underwear part, the doctrinal "all" part).

Does "All" mean "all", all the time?  ...isn't that another thread?

:hijacked: ...by all Superheroes wearing underwear :mshock: ...no commando's?

Do you like to fly?                                    
Do you like to wear a cape?                     
Are you somewhat reserved and easy going?       
Are you accident prone?                               
Do you like hi-tech gadgets?                       
Did you have a bad childhood?                    
Do you have a dark personality?                    
Do you wear thongs?                                      
Do you ever wear a pushup bra?                    
Are you good at reading people?                    
Do you like to be in the limelight?                    
Are you good at acrobatics?                              
Are you a little naive?                                    
Are you easily angered?                            
Do you have hidden strength?                    
Are you a loner?                                              
Do you often hurt people without realizing it?      
Do you move a lot?                                      
Are you athletic?                                            
Are you a fast runner?                                      
Are you extremely talented in only one area?      
Will you sometimes go too far to get your way?
Are you interested in space travel?            
Do you get in many physical fights with girls?      
Do you like animals?                                      
Are you much of a drinker?   

"No fear or calamity, only an unanticipated relapse."

[peacemaker]

Verse 4 and verse 11 of luke Chapter 13 both use the word "eighteen".  That is telling us something but not sure what.  My studys have lead me to believe that an ancient calendar day had 18 parts to it in total (night and day).

It appears that Jesus was using the number eighteen, repetitiously, indicating that the woman's infirmity was not her fault, nor should it be interpreted as a form of punishment. Apparently, following the same line of thought as in the eighteen whom the tower in Siloam fell upon, or even those in Italy who recently died for that matter.

However, it is interesting that Jesus called to her in the presence of those who socially through their own religiosity, devalued the life of others while at the same time, exalted themselves and their animals.

peacemaker

I assume we are talking now about the woman who had an "issue of blood" for 12 years.  I've often mused on that story.   She had AN ISSUE OF BLOOD.  In my church days, I was always told that she had a menstruation problem, but I have never settled that for myself.  I think in the bigger picture, the entire "woman of God" has a bleeding problem, and has had a bleeding problem since Adam was lowered into mortality.   I appreciate the explanations about the number eighteen.  Sheila's post was very thought-provoking... 'do we want to die ignorant'  or do we want to 'get an understanding first' ?  Either way, we are still appointed to pass through the valley of the shadow of death.  The scriptures point out that that woman, 'BEING A DAUGHTER OF GOD' ought to be loosed from such bondage.   Almost every place I looked this up on the internet was a teaching concerned with gaining a physical healing and or focusing on a literal interpretation. 

Mark 5:25-34 (King James Version)

25And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

26And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

27When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

28For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

29And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

30And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

31And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

32And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

33But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Healing on the Sabbath (Luke chapter 13:10-17)

And He (Jesus) was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.

And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit [i.e. (human) the rational and immortal soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc.; to breath hard; properly a forcible respiration]; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all.

When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said to her, "Woman, you are freed from your sickness."

And He laid His hands on her; and immediately she was made erect again and began glorifying God.

But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, "There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day."

But the Lord answered him and said, "You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him? And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan (an adversary) has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?"

As He said this, all His opponents were being humiliated; and the entire crowd was rejoicing over all the glorious things being done by Him.

"Health is a state of complete physical, mental, or social well being; not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."

peacemaker

[martincisneros]

Funny and nobody's participating yet.  Hmmm....

Do you like to fly?

Yes

Do you like to wear a cape?

Yes

Are you somewhat reserved and easy going?

Yes

Are you accident prone?

No

Do you like hi-tech gadgets?

Yes

Did you have a bad childhood?

Yes

Do you have a dark personality?

No

Do you wear thongs?

Hey, I stopped smoking that a long time ago. No

Do you ever wear a pushup bra?

Hey, I quit drinking that a long time ago. No

Are you good at reading people?

No

Do you like to be in the limelight?

Yes

Are you good at acrobatics

Yes

Are you a little naive?

Everybody's a little naive about something. Yes

Are you easily angered?

No

Do you have hidden strength?

Yes

Are you a loner?

Yes

Do you often hurt people without realizing it?

No

Do you move a lot?

Yes

Are you athletic?

Yes

Are you a fast runner?

Yes

Are you extremely talented in only one area?

No, I'm a polymath. "THE Doctor"

Will you sometimes go too far to get your way?

No

Are you interested in space travel?

Yes

Do you get in many physical fights with girls?

No

Do you like animals?

Yes

Are you much of a drinker?

No, never

[peacemaker]

Funny and nobody's participating yet.  Hmmm.... "It is very strange?" Didn't God create humor too?

Are you extremely talented in only one area?

No, I'm a polymath. "THE Doctor"

PLEASE DON'T DRINK AND DERIVE, as Math and Alcohol don't mix ... from one Polyhistor to another, and a Mathematician against drunk deriving!

peacemaker

[WhiteWings]

Yeah Cardinal and Jabcat. Global warming is the least of your worries :sigh:

Are you condemning me again?  :punish: :prankster:  That's White Wings in the middle, and me on the ends..before and after.

I see 2 icons with a space between them. So I'm that space. I'm blotted out  :btantrum: