Baptism

[Molly]

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

You cannot even see it unless you are born again [ water].

[WhiteWings]

John 3:4-5  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The verse seems to link the second time with Spirit not water.

[Molly]

John 3:4-5  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The verse seems to link the second time with Spirit not water.

Yes.

born [water]--we are all children of God.

born again [water]  -- You can see the kingdom of God

baptized with the HS [fire]--You can enter into the kingdom of God.



26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

--John 15

[Molly]

The verse seems to link the second time with Spirit not water.

For Jesus both happened at the same time.

But, for the disciples, it was two separate events.  They had to go to Jerusalem and wait for the HS.

I don't think necessarily both water [born again] and Spirit have to happen at the same time.

[Molly]

Another way to look at it

Father [born], Son [Mother] [born again], Holy Spirit [Power of God]=You are now a son.

[Molly]

Yeah it adds up to 3....

But I would have expected fire.
Fire+Water+HS

Not being born twice in this life means kicked into a lake of fire. Not a lake of water....

The Holy Spirit is fire.


2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire...

--Acts 2


But, to Jesus it appeared as a dove.  This is the reconciliation with God.  For us, the Holy Spirit is a comforter and a teacher--a fire which gives warmth and light.  But, I wouldn't want to be faced with the Holy Spirit without Jesus.


2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

[Nathan]

For me, it's all an alignment with the tabernacle. . .which is patterned after Christ himself.  It's dimensional.

But the water baptism is the elementary level in our relationship with the Father . . .it's the outward manifestation of an inward transformation.  It's as public as it is intimate.

Spirit baptism is the preparation for ministry . . .which doesn't just mean church, religious activity . . .any calling God has appointed us into would certainly come under this particular category.  The baptism of the Spirit is to reinforce and strengthen the previous steps and prepares us for the next.  The spirit baptism gives us power to "be" witnesses.  It's also where the gifts of the spirit operate from . . .for the purpose of buiding up, edifying and uplifting the church . . again, not a denomination or specific gathering of people, but church overall. . .the body of Christ.

Fire baptism, for me, is the deepest experience of the three.  It's not as celebrative as the first, not as exhilerating as the second . . .it can even be a taxing experience . . .as this is the place where soul gets divided from spirit . . .where rubber meets road . .where carnality is purged and pruned and natures of personalities change drastically and profoundly. Where grace supercedes observations and intimacy is most relevant and desired. 

In the tabernacle the first fire we experience is the altar of sacrifice, it's where sin is forgiven . . .the next fire is the candlestick, where the bread of life is illuminated . . .and the last fire is the fire of incense . . .it's where our praises and prayers are transformed from natural activity into spiritual reality.

The baptism of fire is the least preached, but the most desired of God for the church to experience.  You can't have the baptism of spirit until after the baptism of water . . .which is to say you can't be spirit filled if you're not saved in the first place . .and as the order goes . . .you can't be baptized in fire until you're first baptized in spirit . . one prepares you for the next . .it's all a process of the relationship we have with the Father.