Why So Much Bible?

[claypot]

Amen all. All I know is I gots me lots of thinkin to do. God is a marvel, that's for sure. I'm having a blast here but I'm scared -----less at the same time. Kind of like a roller coaster ride, that first big fall. Clicking slowly up and up and up and up and then...........................hang on!!!!!! So scary yet so thrilling.

cp

what are you scared of?

chuckt

Of falling into the hands of the living God. Wasn't it Daniel who dropped like a rock in front of an angel and John? Man, Chuck, messing with these here things of God is like handling dymamite, don't you think? It's fun as all get out but dangerous business too. God is not One to mess with even as a kid of His. He loves but His love often makes a roaring lion look tame if you get my drift!

cp

[Tony N]

Why do we hold what we call the Bible in such high esteem over say other written words that are obviously inspired by God Himself?

For me,  when I looked only to the bible and felt I could only see inspiration within its words and nothing else it was fear,  residual fear of the "just in case" manner.


And it is not that I do not really like the bible, but I do not worship it and I know I have been given truth without ever reading its words and I feel no purpose for me to pour over it's every words trying to decifer it all.  I find fundamental truths in many things including the bible.

If there is a final authority and if there is a God that is inherantly love,  then that is what the final authority is.

2Ti 2:2 And what things you hear from me through many witnesses, these commit to faithful men, who shall be competent to teach others also."

If Paul's words in the Scriptures are so unimportant that you feel you can get everything you need without them, then why circumvent what Paul told Timothy that we don't have to heed his instruction in this?

And we should be reading what he instructed and read the sacred scriptures:

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give heed to reading, to entreaty, to teaching."

[Nathan]

There seems to be a tone here that is trying to argue a point that really hasn't been implied.  At least for me that seems to be the case . . . this forum has a great diversity of people.  But to simplify it . . .I see the fundamentalists on one side . ..and spiritualists on the other.  And there seems to be this . . . unspoken line between the two that is argued over.  In this light, I would consider myself as the spiritualist . . .let's just get it out there .  .

And as such, I am one that does see the Word of God being a huge part of the reason for my faith being what it is.  I do feel that it, in all it's truths and light . . .is not the final word "in" me.  The final word in me is that which is a living, breathing sound that has led me here in the first place.  I did not come to a passage in Scripture to instruct me to find tentmaker . . .nor did I hear a voice to tell me to search it out . . .truth be known . . .I'm here because of a relationship I have with a few people here.  God led me "through" others. 

Now . . .If I were one that embraced the Word and the Word alone . . .I would not have heeded, nor would I even be here.  Because even though many quote, many more comment rather than quote.  But I'm not any longer a fundamentalist . . .I once was . .very much so . .but not anymore.  I believe if God wants to talk to me . . .final word or not . . .he can use anything he wants . . .doesn't have to be Scripture at all.  He used a donkey with Baalam, a bush on fire with Moses, a fish with Jonah, a chicken with Peter.  Paid taxes through a fish that Peter caught.  Used a dove with Noah . .a rainbow to.

God can use whatever it is within his and our reach depending on where we are, at the time when he chooses to speak.  Sometimes he speaks to me through my wife . . .sometimes he speaks to me through the magestic passing eagle . .seeming oblivious to my presence . . . does this mean we can throw the Bible away?   Don't be silly!  All this means is, there's more to God and his relationship with me, than any book can contain.  So why would I want to box him in the pages of something that no matter who has what translation, there are still arguments resulting in the words on the pages being read?

It feels like some of these conversations are borderlining on just a little chastizement to those who don't embrace the pages as much as others who do.  I serve a God of the living .. .and the pages of Scripture do have life in them . . .but all to often, that life gets overshadowed by the differences of opinions and perspectives when trying to (ahem . . .) "Rightly divide" . . . 

I think it's funny sometimes when there's a discussion going on and differences surface and probing questions get asked and then somebody posts an entire chapter of Scritpure with no comment before or after by the sender.  I'm thinking as I read it . . ."where on earth are they going with this?"  It's used like . . .a get-out-of-jail-free card in a monopoly game.  We've had it engrained in us that we are to use Scripture to prove our opinions to others.  Surely, no one would argue with "Scripture"!!  It's frustrating sometimes.

What if God actually does work "outside" of the so-called boundaries of the written word?  What if he doesn't "want" to build line upon line in you . . .what if he just wants to REVEAL the nature of His Son to you?  The kingdom that Christ built and is buiding his church on is not the rock of the written word . . .so why is there such an issue with it?  Yes, it's inspired by God . . .yes it leads to Christ . . . but relationship shouldn't come through someone being obedient to what's written . . .I shouldn't have to make myself like you because the Bible says so . . .relationship should happen because we all have the "same" light in us . .it should happen cuz that's just how Christ manifests in us . . .through our relationships with one another.

What bothers me is after a while of hearing the same song and dance from the same people . . .I'm starting to cop an attitude toward certain people here and that's not a godly thing either.  There are some on this forum that I just love reading . . .others . . .I love to watch argue . . .and still others make me just want to walk away from all of it. 

The point is, we may be in different rooms . . .but we're still all in the same house.  We should be able to freely share our perspectives . . .if people build on those things . . .awesome!!  If people are in a different room . .that's okay to.  Some are higher, some are not . . .some are deeper . .some are not.  But we're "all" in the same house . . . which is to say we're all of the same family.  I love my Bible . . .all 8 or 9 translations of it . . .but I love even more the times when something drops in me that I can't "prove" it's in Scripture . . .but at the same time, noone in the world can prove that it isn't God who put it there either.

I love saying things I've never heard myself say before . . .and then just "hover" over what just happened.  It's great to glean from others in their revelating . . .but most of you know . . .hearing a revelation from someone, and receiving one of your own are two completely different experiences.  But noone is denouncing the bible or saying that it's not necessary . . .we're just saying  . . .there's so much more beyond what is written.

[Paul Hazelwood]

2Ti 2:2 And what things you hear from me through many witnesses, these commit to faithful men, who shall be competent to teach others also."

What determines a faithful man I can trust to learn from?  Which perspective? Which doctrine? Which denomination?  Which church? Which translation?   

I won't follow a man, and thats just how it is. 

If Paul's words in the Scriptures are so unimportant that you feel you can get everything you need without them, then why circumvent what Paul told Timothy that we don't have to heed his instruction in this?

And we should be reading what he instructed and read the sacred scriptures:

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give heed to reading, to entreaty, to teaching."

First, personal experience.   As a young child I was made aware of something you will not find by just reading the bible or going to church or arguing in a forum.   The system of religion beat it out of me and finally I have returned to that.  I can't teach what it is because I believe that it is beyond our control.

What I wrote was in support of truth in the bible but that I really do not need to try to figure it all out.  No one does.   It is the appearance of a belief that we are somehow spiritually deficient if we can't answer for everything the bible contains that I am rejecting.   The idea that I have to hold the 66 books we now have as the ultimate authority for all truth in light of all the manipulation it has undergone is a doctrinal opinion based on circumstancial case building. This is done by men who claim they just simply have the authority to say so because God inspired it all to end up as these 66 books.   Whatever.


So we have places to discuss things and again, if my views are at a point where I need to leave the forum, I will kindly and in good spirits leave.   

I am not defaming the bible in my opinion, I am trying to build up people in love to realize that the bible contains many great truths, but somewhere along the line all that love and spirituality gets lost as we hammer over what the whole thing means and if we do not get it right theres gonna be trouble.

I have found that evidence again in my own personal life, I have found great joy in my life by letting go of my white knuckled grip of the bible and pursued selfless love with wreckless abandon and am understanding much more about Gods love and spiritual perspectives than I ever have hammering over word after word and scripture after scripture trying to put it all together to know what it means.   I stopped doing that because of the first responce above.

[chuckt]

Amen all. All I know is I gots me lots of thinkin to do. God is a marvel, that's for sure. I'm having a blast here but I'm scared -----less at the same time. Kind of like a roller coaster ride, that first big fall. Clicking slowly up and up and up and up and then...........................hang on!!!!!! So scary yet so thrilling.

cp

what are you scared of?

chuckt

Of falling into the hands of the living God. Wasn't it Daniel who dropped like a rock in front of an angel and John? Man, Chuck, messing with these here things of God is like handling dymamite, don't you think? It's fun as all get out but dangerous business too. God is not One to mess with even as a kid of His. He loves but His love often makes a roaring lion look tame if you get my drift!

cp

well i know what you mean, and its healthy to have this respectfull fear and i do beleive Father honours such.

as long as your fear dosent have torment.

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.


1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.


hey God will judge his people, but i have 100% confidence in the outcome.


God bless and GRACE

chuckt

[Tony N]

2Ti 2:2 And what things you hear from me through many witnesses, these commit to faithful men, who shall be competent to teach others also."

What determines a faithful man I can trust to learn from?  Which perspective? Which doctrine? Which denomination?  Which church? Which translation?   

I won't follow a man, and thats just how it is. 

If Paul's words in the Scriptures are so unimportant that you feel you can get everything you need without them, then why circumvent what Paul told Timothy that we don't have to heed his instruction in this?

And we should be reading what he instructed and read the sacred scriptures:

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give heed to reading, to entreaty, to teaching."

First, personal experience.   As a young child I was made aware of something you will not find by just reading the bible or going to church or arguing in a forum.   The system of religion beat it out of me and finally I have returned to that.  I can't teach what it is because I believe that it is beyond our control.

What I wrote was in support of truth in the bible but that I really do not need to try to figure it all out.  No one does.   It is the appearance of a belief that we are somehow spiritually deficient if we can't answer for everything the bible contains that I am rejecting.   The idea that I have to hold the 66 books we now have as the ultimate authority for all truth in light of all the manipulation it has undergone is a doctrinal opinion based on circumstancial case building. This is done by men who claim they just simply have the authority to say so because God inspired it all to end up as these 66 books.   Whatever.


So we have places to discuss things and again, if my views are at a point where I need to leave the forum, I will kindly and in good spirits leave.   

I am not defaming the bible in my opinion, I am trying to build up people in love to realize that the bible contains many great truths, but somewhere along the line all that love and spirituality gets lost as we hammer over what the whole thing means and if we do not get it right theres gonna be trouble.

I have found that evidence again in my own personal life, I have found great joy in my life by letting go of my white knuckled grip of the bible and pursued selfless love with wreckless abandon and am understanding much more about Gods love and spiritual perspectives than I ever have hammering over word after word and scripture after scripture trying to put it all together to know what it means.   I stopped doing that because of the first responce above.

Paul, it is good that you love and try to set yourself as a good example of love. Some people who really know their Bibles are just deplorable as to their showing genuine love. I'd rather know and be friends with a person who has genuine love than a bible thumping jerk who can't think of anyone but themselves.

But . . . just because there are jerks out there that know their bibles does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Molly]

The whole Bible is about Jesus....and us.

Some day there will not be any [apparent] difference.


Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

[Paul Hazelwood]

But . . . just because there are jerks out there that know their bibles does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

We have some miscommunication going on.   Never once suggested to throw the bible out completely or that it is useless.  The fact that I know people get spiritual revelation without it and that I do not need it as the only focal point of my life in order to find peace and joy is a difference of our opinion and life experiences.

[Tony N]

But . . . just because there are jerks out there that know their bibles does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

We have some miscommunication going on.   Never once suggested to throw the bible out completely or that it is useless.  The fact that I know people get spiritual revelation without it and that I do not need it as the only focal point of my life in order to find peace and joy is a difference of our opinion and life experiences.

I guess I read you wrong. You seem to need the Scriptures but don't need them. I'm kind of getting mixed messages from you.

As to people getting spiritual revelation, well, I've been to churches where so many people had some new revelation, some new prophecy. I've come to the conclusion that most of it is self delusion.

[Paul Hazelwood]

But . . . just because there are jerks out there that know their bibles does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

We have some miscommunication going on.   Never once suggested to throw the bible out completely or that it is useless.  The fact that I know people get spiritual revelation without it and that I do not need it as the only focal point of my life in order to find peace and joy is a difference of our opinion and life experiences.

I guess I read you wrong. You seem to need the Scriptures but don't need them. I'm kind of getting mixed messages from you.

As to people getting spiritual revelation, well, I've been to churches where so many people had some new revelation, some new prophecy. I've come to the conclusion that most of it is self delusion.

Yeah,  and so are many peoples opinions that they think others must listen to.

[Tony N]

But . . . just because there are jerks out there that know their bibles does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

We have some miscommunication going on.   Never once suggested to throw the bible out completely or that it is useless.  The fact that I know people get spiritual revelation without it and that I do not need it as the only focal point of my life in order to find peace and joy is a difference of our opinion and life experiences.

I guess I read you wrong. You seem to need the Scriptures but don't need them. I'm kind of getting mixed messages from you.

As to people getting spiritual revelation, well, I've been to churches where so many people had some new revelation, some new prophecy. I've come to the conclusion that most of it is self delusion.

Yeah,  and so are many peoples opinions that they think others must listen to.

Yep, opinions should always be understood to be just that and not what one must believe or else.

[claypot]

I would find it interesting to get back to one of my main points and that is to read your summations of the 66 books we call the Bible. I find it interesting that we can sum up this Book of Books in so few words or even one word.

God is a Master at getting us to do many things!

Gods word shall go forth and it will accomplish all He intends to accomplish.

I like that summary.

God is love and love never fails. Another good one.

This month [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you.  3  Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth [day] of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of [their] fathers, a lamb for an house: {lamb: or, kid}  4  And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take [it] according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.  5  Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats: {of...: Heb. son of a year}  6  And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. {in...: Heb. between the two evenings}  7  And they shall take of the bloodex12.1

Not a good summary in my opinion! :dontknow:

Too much filler for our own good IMO but I'll have to deal with God and the religious instututions on that one I guess.

cp

[Nathan]

Actually, that's a "great" summary . . .Christ is the lamb of God . . .that takes away the sin of the world . .  We must eat of his flesh and drink of his blood .  . . according to the number of our household . . . where the carcass lies, the eagles will be gathered together . . .

Eat as much of the bread of heaven as your household can withstand . . .as much as your mind can comprehend.

We are eagles . . .he is the lamb, the carcass, we eat of his flesh, we drink of his blood . . .his flesh is the hidden manna . . .his blood is the life in the manna . . .

[claypot]

Actually, that's a "great" summary . . .Christ is the lamb of God . . .that takes away the sin of the world . .  We must eat of his flesh and drink of his blood .  . . according to the number of our household . . . where the carcass lies, the eagles will be gathered together . . .

Eat as much of the bread of heaven as your household can withstand . . .as much as your mind can comprehend.

We are eagles . . .he is the lamb, the carcass, we eat of his flesh, we drink of his blood . . .his flesh is the hidden manna . . .his blood is the life in the manna . . .

You got me there Brother!  :Peace2:

I was speaking to the sane Brothers and Sisters, not to the crazies like you and I!!!!!  :boydance:

cp

[CHB]

I would find it interesting to get back to one of my main points and that is to read your summations of the 66 books we call the Bible. I find it interesting that we can sum up this Book of Books in so few words or even one word.

Actually, there are only 49 books {7 times 7} in the Bible, not 66.

http://www.askelm.com/secrets/sec021.htm

CHB

[sparrow]

You're talking to yourself again!!!  :thumbsup:

I know... I have a real problem with that.. :laughing7:

A shallow stream has a lot of frenetic action, little tributaries running in various patterns and in various directions.

A deep deep river is a single simplistic stable flow.  :happy3:

That is awesome.  :dsunny:
Thank you for that.
I will remember that.

[sparrow]

CP... so glad you got what I was saying.

and God's word *IS* over all of His creation.
It's not just in a book.
It's everywhere all around us.

"Every happening, great and small, is a parable whereby God speaks to us, and the art of life is to get the message." - Malcolm Muggeridge

"Our creator is the same and never changes despite the names given Him by people here and in all parts of the world. Even if we gave Him no name at all, He would still be there, within us, waiting to give us good on this earth." - Goerge Washington Carver

"Reading about nature is fine, but if a person walks in the woods and listens carefully, he can learn more than what is in books, for they speak with the voice of God." - George Washington Carver

"I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station, through which God speaks to us every hour, if we will only tune in." - George Washington Carver


In my humble opinion, those who think the bible is "THE" way to hear from God... don't have good enough hearing.
His word is all around us. We are immersed in "His word".
Literally... immersed. It's all around us.

just my opinion.

peace.

[claypot]

I would find it interesting to get back to one of my main points and that is to read your summations of the 66 books we call the Bible. I find it interesting that we can sum up this Book of Books in so few words or even one word.

Actually, there are only 49 books {7 times 7} in the Bible, not 66.

http://www.askelm.com/secrets/sec021.htm

CHB

66 or 49 are still tons of words to argue and disagree over.

Let me tell you a story. I talked about this at work with a Christian friend. As I was standing by her desk I picked up her pink pad of paper that was for taking notes from phone calls. On top of each sheet on this pad were the words 'Important Notice' and then places for message and phone numbers and so on. You have seen these in offices.

Anyway I picked it up randomly and did a sermon on those two words.

Important Notice

The 'Im' in the word important speaks of the great I Am, Jesus Christ.

The 'port' in important is talking about Jesus being our port in the storm of life.

The 'ant' in the word important indicates how we are like ants compared to God and how we should consider the ants and how they strive.........

The 'ice' in the word notice speaks of our cold, hard hearts before Gods work within.

You get my drift. I could have preached for months if not decades from those 2 words. I'm sure others could have argued and debated over everything I said.

I say all this to say that we could take any written words and apply them to our faith and God. We do all sorts of gymnastics and gyrations to get the words of the Bible to come together for us.

This is not a bad thing but did God make the Bible so obviously contradictory and confusing, and then impress it upon our hearts, to train us to see all things and words as expressions of Himself?

In order to make the Bible say what we need it to say takes amazing brain power and logistic skills and much imagination. These are all good things to exercise. These are the tools of the Spirit!

cp

[Paul Hazelwood]

I say all this to say that we could take any written words and apply them to our faith and God. We do all sorts of gymnastics and gyrations to get the words of the Bible to come together for us.

You can quote a simple passage and that opens the can of worms.

Quote
"God wills that all men be saved"

Response
"yeah Its Gods will but not everyone will be because its only Gods desire"

Quote
Isaiah 46:10  "All my desire I will do"

Responce
"Yeah, anyone can take two verses out of context to prove a point"


the law, works grace, faith,  on and on.



God is love,  thats sufficient for everyone.


uh uh, huh huh. uh uh.........      :laughing7:



Simple no nonsense belief is just not good enough for some.

[martincisneros]

In real life my wife says "If you find anyone dumb enough to run off with you - then they deserve you".  :dontknow: :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

:OhNo: Must be related to me somehow.  That's all my relatives ever say about my prospects as well. :dontknow: Particularly my mother in centuries past. :eek:

[Taffy]

In real life my wife says "If you find anyone dumb enough to run off with you - then they deserve you".  :dontknow: :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

:OhNo: Must be related to me somehow.  That's all my relatives ever say about my prospects as well. :dontknow: Particularly my mother in centuries past. :eek:

Martin
Byron just being Modest, He recently released a Book ,Called " Byron the Babe Magnet and its curse", its a good read, as some may not see it being a  Curse :icon_flower: depends from which perspective we veiw it.

Ya Got feel for Byron Thou ,Nearly Eaten alive by all those single women folk at his old Church :icon_king:

:icon_flower:

[Tony N]

God is love,  thats sufficient for everyone.


uh uh, huh huh. uh uh.........      :laughing7:

Simple no nonsense belief is just not good enough for some.

But God sometimes has to show tough love by eternally torturing billions in fire for eternity to show His love for them.  :dontknow:

[chuckt]

God is love,  thats sufficient for everyone.


uh uh, huh huh. uh uh.........      :laughing7:

Simple no nonsense belief is just not good enough for some.

But God sometimes has to show tough love by eternally torturing billions in fire for eternity to show His love for them.  :dontknow:

every million yrs we go and look at all the ""corpses"" being tormented as a reminder of the wonderfull thing of us choosing christ, and looking upon these idiots who were not smart enough to choose serve as a reminder how smart we were in this life to choose......... :sigh:

[Paul Hazelwood]

God is love,  thats sufficient for everyone.


uh uh, huh huh. uh uh.........      :laughing7:

Simple no nonsense belief is just not good enough for some.

But God sometimes has to show tough love by eternally torturing billions in fire for eternity to show His love for them.  :dontknow:

every million yrs we go and look at all the ""corpses"" being tormented as a reminder of the wonderfull thing of us choosing christ, and looking upon these idiots who were not smart enough to choose serve as a reminder how smart we were in this life to choose......... :sigh:

GORY TO GOD THE FATHER

[CHB]

You guys crack me up.  :laughing7:

I heard a Doctor say that if one laughs a good belly laugh at least once a day it would add years to their life and cure many diseases. So I try to get on this forum everyday just to perform this exercise.   :LH: :LH: :laugh2: :laugh: :rolllol: :rolllol:

By the way claypot I agree with what you said in answer to my post.

CHB