What is Jesus? Spirit or flesh?

[Tony N]

You really are saying in a nutshell -- that 2 words which are inseparably "connected at the hip" are not not definitions of each other, ...much as people argue that they wish to DISCUSS and not DEBATE... both these words define the other...

A concept did not stand beside Joshua in Zechariah 3:1.

I aint gettin any younger brother T... are you going to answer my question about Peter in regards to "your belief" of "satan" or not?  :dontknow:

How was he both "satan" (father of lies) and "the rock" (foundation upon which TRUTH is placed)? ? ? ? ?

Guess you just don't have an answer -- eh?  :dunno:

I already did answer. Suppose you read back through the posts and find it.

[peacemaker]

A human adversary, is the diabolos of man or an inordinate desire of the flesh that causes people to commit that which is unrighteous – sin.

The word also signifies to traduce, slander, is libel, to falsely accuse. Thus, Judas is characterized, or described – as having a devil enter him – because of his betrayal when he handed Jesus over to the unscrupulous authorities; the adversary!

The faithful are warned that "the devil shall cast some of you into prison."

We can learn from Deuteronomy that when a person appeared before a priest (in hierarchical churches) he appeared before the Lord; a representative on earth. Because, God was with the priest in the judgment.

He said to the judges, "Consider what you are doing, for you do not judge for man but for the LORD who is with you when you render judgment." (2 Chronicles 19:6)

"...then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges who will be in office in those days." (Deuteronomy 19:17)

Why not apply the same principle of interpretation to Job (1:6).  A principle that is consistent with other portions of Scripture. When that is done, the whole story line is understood, as taking place on earth before God.

In order to justify the orthodox hell, you will have to believe in demons, devils and that of Satan from their perspective.
But this is Idolatry, unless you are able to "withstand" or resist the temptation, as a righteous adversary! :declare:

peacemaker

[Tony N]

In order to justify the orthodox hell, you will have to believe in demons, devils and that of Satan from their perspective.
But this is Idolatry, unless you are able to "withstand" or resist the temptation, as a righteous adversary! :declare:

peacemaker

Thanks for the nice thoughts peacemaker. May I say something though without causing any upset?
I believe there really is a being God created named Satan. I also believe that Jesus cast out demons who could talk with Jesus. I don't believe in hell. So I guess I'm not trying to justify an orthodox hell by believing in these beings.

If it is idolitry, is Jesus an idoliter for He spoke with Satan and spoke with demons in people. Neither am I an idolitor.

John the revelator saw Satan being locked up in the submerged chaos also called the abyss. Later on, when the 1000 years is ending it is stated that Satan will be loosed out of that abyss and he will gather the nations against the holy city.

Rev 20:2 And he lays hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Adversary and Satan, and binds him a thousand years."

You would not say "who is the adversary and adversary." Neither did John think this being was "adversity." He saw him as a being.

While he is locked up the nations that mistreated Christ's brothers will enter into eonian chastening (Matt.25:31-46) so we know there will still be nations who are adversarial while Satan is locked up. So we know Satan is not locked up in people's flesh and then let out later.

So to sum up this post:
Jesus spoke with Satan, spoke with demons and cast demons out of people. Satan really did enter Judas and made Judas give up Jesus. Satan was not in Judas before he entered Judas so Satan is not in everyone's flesh (not that you believe that but there are people on these boards who do).

I don't think you are better than me just because you don't agree with me.  :icon_joker:

[Zeek]

Mat 4:1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

[Tony N]

Mat 4:1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

Hi zeek, I'm not sure "tempt" is a good word. For instance how could Christ be tempted with a question by the Pharisees? The Concordant Literal has "tried" in both verses above.

But are you trying to say that since Jesus was tried by the Adversary in Matthew 4:1 and later tried by the Pharisees that therefore the Pharisees are the Adversary or Satan if you will?

That would be kind of like saying that since Joseph is used in the Old Testament and used in the New of Jesus's father that therefore they are one and the same person.

peace bro!

:HeartThrob: :boyheart: Happy Valentine's Day!  :boyheart: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

  to the Pharisees he addressed ' ye offspring of vipers....

  ye are of your father the devil" thus, he showed they were of

 the seed of the serpent..even demonic

 utterances....furthermore ...he declared him[this seed] as a

 murderer and mankiller from the beginning..

   God walks in the earth[His spirit comes in the flesh of man]

   [the earth is His footstool of His throne]his spirit in man

  and satan declared he had been walking about in the earth

  his demonic spirit does the same.


  Jesus gave us the parable to show us...the wheat and tares

  seed sown in the earth[flesh] of man......

    mystery of godliness and mystery of lawlessness.

  the law was written against the lawless[evil seed] and it is to

    their condemnation....the wheat will be gathered into

  the barn or storehouses of heaven.  the end of the world is

  the reaping.  On every man's last day of life...this evil seed is

  seperated from the wheat [sheep from goats].


 soon all the world is due to be reaped


 now, that there is some confusion as to the identity of this

 evil seed...that is apparent.  it's close association to the

 outward manifestation of sin in man's flesh has led many to

 judge by appearances and judge before the appointed time.

  as to certain of makind to be the evil seed...but to you

 who may think this..I say...remember Adam is a son of God

 that is man[ that was overcome by the demonic] and that

 Jesus Christ..as the firstborn from the dead..is a son of God

 a holy seed that has OVERCOME THE DEMONIC SEED IN THE

  EARTH.....and all the SONS OF GOD are victorious.

  [this also prophesied in Gen ,serpent seed bruise the heel,

  that is God's heel[footstool on earth of God's

   throne=mankinds flesh/ holy seed bruise head of serpents

  seed/demonic mind to kill mankind/seize God's throne

  thwarted/mankind inherit Heavenly Kingdom]


......the saints were overcome..then the Court sat[God's

judgement] and the KINGDOM WAS GIVEN UNTO THE SAINTS


    this is the inheritance of the spiritual eternal life Kingdom

  of God./Heaven...that was seemingly lost...when man was

overcome by satan


   

[Tony N]

Hi Shiela,
Thanks for your thoughts on this!

You are so right that Jesus said they were of their father the Adversary (John 8:44).

I like your thoughts on this topic.

Just thinking out loud here and not necessarily meant for you or anything you wrote:

Did Satan literally impregnate the Pharisees mothers? No.
They were of their father by the deeds they did. He was a liar and murderer from the beginning. So were they murderers and liars.

Did God impregnate our mothers and thus we become children of God? No.

Do we become sons of God by receiving His word into our lives? His words concerning the death of His son for all?

Did the Pharisess become sons of the Adversary by receiving his words into their lives? Words of hate and murder?

The Pharisees certainly knew the Scriptures and the law yet they did the opposite of what the law demanded. Rather than lighten the loads of people they put heavy loads on them.

Jesus, on the other hand, took their loads on Himself.

Anyway, just my thoughts as I sit here in an old mill on my laptop listening to peaceful music.

Love,

Tony

[peacemaker]

Thanks for the nice thoughts peacemaker. You are most welcome, Tony. May I say something though without causing any upset? Sure, that's your choice, and it will have no effect on the soundness of my mind or the condition of my heart; mentally or emotionally.

I believe there really is a being God created named Satan. I know you do. I also believe that Jesus cast out demons who could talk with Jesus. No doubt, again, your choice. I don't believe in hell. That's good, however, a half-truth can be worse than a whole lie. So I guess I'm not trying to justify an orthodox hell by believing in these beings. If you say so, but they usually go, together.

If it is idolatry, is Jesus an idolater for He spoke with Satan and spoke with demons in people. It was the person, themselves, who spoke. Neither am I an idolater. Immoderately or without knowledge, not to be offensive or to upset you?

John the revelator saw Satan being locked up in the submerged chaos also called the abyss. Later on, when the 1000 years is ending it is stated that Satan will be loosed out of that abyss and he will gather the nations against the holy city. As you see it.

Rev 20:2 And he lays hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Adversary and Satan, and binds him a thousand years."

You would not say "who is the adversary and adversary." Neither did John think this being was "adversity." He saw him as a being. Nor would you say "who is the Satan and Satan?"

But one could say "who is the accuser and adversary?" or "who is the adversary and deceiver?" Indeed, two different meanings. And John saw him (Satan) as a being? This appears to be based on your belief?

While he is locked up the nations that mistreated Christ's brothers will enter into eonian (age-abiding) chastening (Matt.25:31-46) so we know there will still be nations who are adversarial while Satan is locked up. So we know Satan is not locked up in people's flesh and then let out later. And the whole earth will learn righteousness. No more fables having the inclination of men.

So to sum up this post:

Jesus spoke with Satan, spoke with demons and cast demons out of people. Yes, this is what you believe. Satan really did enter Judas and made Judas give up Jesus. Again, what you believe. Satan was not in Judas before he entered Judas so Satan is not in everyone's flesh (not that you believe that but there are people on these boards who do). True to a certain point, but Judas did not have the mind of Christ, either.

I don't think you are better than me just because you don't agree with me. This has never crossed over into my mind. And in the same vein, you are no worse than any other – for all have sinned. But ALL will come to the knowledge of the truth, each in their own era.

peacemaker

[Tony N]

I also believe God will save all mankind. But, hey, I'm probably wrong on that too.

[peacemaker]

I also believe God will save all mankind. But, hey, I'm probably wrong on that too.

Right on, Tony!  :high5:

peacemaker

[claypot]

Mat 4:1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

Hey Zeek. I have often been led into what seemed like a wilderness place in my life and when there I know I have been tempted or tried by the devil. It is a very conflicting situation and devilish. My own nasty thoughts, almost pharisaical in so many ways, came up in my mind. I often struggle in my mind whether I am worshipping God with all my heart or am taking the physcal, more carnal, road. This almost seems like what God might be saying to us when writing about Pharisees tempting The Divine (Jesus) with law questions. I see this so clear as what is taking place within my very being so often in my life. To see how Jesus handles such situations also is, not only Good News, but it is Great News to me as it helps me handle lifes situations daily. Praise Him who knows how to communicate truth that helps right now for those who have ears to hear.

cp

[claypot]

Thanks for the nice thoughts peacemaker. You are most welcome, Tony. May I say something though without causing any upset? Sure, that's your choice, and it will have no effect on the soundness of my mind or the condition of my heart; mentally or emotionally.

I believe there really is a being God created named Satan. I know you do. I also believe that Jesus cast out demons who could talk with Jesus. No doubt, again, your choice. I don't believe in hell. That's good, however, a half-truth can be worse than a whole lie. So I guess I'm not trying to justify an orthodox hell by believing in these beings. If you say so, but they usually go, together.

If it is idolatry, is Jesus an idolater for He spoke with Satan and spoke with demons in people. It was the person, themselves, who spoke. Neither am I an idolater. Immoderately or without knowledge, not to be offensive or to upset you?

John the revelator saw Satan being locked up in the submerged chaos also called the abyss. Later on, when the 1000 years is ending it is stated that Satan will be loosed out of that abyss and he will gather the nations against the holy city. As you see it.

Rev 20:2 And he lays hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Adversary and Satan, and binds him a thousand years."

You would not say "who is the adversary and adversary." Neither did John think this being was "adversity." He saw him as a being. Nor would you say "who is the Satan and Satan?"

But one could say "who is the accuser and adversary?" or "who is the adversary and deceiver?" Indeed, two different meanings. And John saw him (Satan) as a being? This appears to be based on your belief?

While he is locked up the nations that mistreated Christ's brothers will enter into eonian (age-abiding) chastening (Matt.25:31-46) so we know there will still be nations who are adversarial while Satan is locked up. So we know Satan is not locked up in people's flesh and then let out later. And the whole earth will learn righteousness. No more fables having the inclination of men.

So to sum up this post:

Jesus spoke with Satan, spoke with demons and cast demons out of people. Yes, this is what you believe. Satan really did enter Judas and made Judas give up Jesus. Again, what you believe. Satan was not in Judas before he entered Judas so Satan is not in everyone's flesh (not that you believe that but there are people on these boards who do). True to a certain point, but Judas did not have the mind of Christ, either.

I don't think you are better than me just because you don't agree with me. This has never crossed over into my mind. And in the same vein, you are no worse than any other – for all have sinned. But ALL will come to the knowledge of the truth, each in their own era.

peacemaker

Great balance PM.

cp

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tony... :hithere:

I finally found your "answer" (if you really wish to call it that), with no help from you...  :thumbdown:

And I -- you, ...Tony!  Is PETER ..."satan" Tony?  CHRIST ADDRESSED Peter as such!  And just before He named PETER as "satan", CHRIST noted that He would BUILD his CHURCH upon Peter's/satan's ministry!  Is that what you think Tony? Be forthright now, brother... and, face your own THEOLOGY!

:laugh: is this a "cake & eat it too" answer, or what?

Before I begin, might I say that any TRUTH which is proposed, will almost ALWAYS recieve OPPOSITION from the majority...  Which is WHY ...UR... is opposed.  It in essence, makes the MAJORITY incorrect... and thereby riles the MAJORITY and the MAJORITY rises to defend its TRADITION... with NUMBERS to back that defense, instead of standing in the desire to be NEUTRAL and continue to LEARN...

It is very interesting, that GOD has placed both TRUTH and ADVERSITY to be proveable with His WORD... giving place to TRADITION (surface understanding) and only revealing the TRUTH to those who fervently DIG for it... and in HUMILITY, forsake their TRADITION when that TRUTH is presented... (and even then, only in due course at His choosing do they become "revealed")...

I have seen a few, very FEW... do this along the way... MOST will fight tooth & nail for their beliefs which are shared by BILLIONS... and use these IMMENSE numbers as a proof they are correct, when CHRIST noted that upon His "return" that TRUE FAITH would be literally invisible amidst that IMMENSE number which claims to have it... (Luke 18:8)

Tony's reply:
Satan in the N.T. can either be an adversary or THE Adversary.

What a crock!  On what authority do you establish THIS bogus claim?  :dontknow:

You are (no offense) more than a bit stubborn bro... You are in a corner and in order to exit that corner, you use doubletalk (AN adversary/THE adversary -- Adversity and Adversary are 2 different things, etc.) instead of admit that your thinking can possibly have flaws...  :sigh:

"satan" all of a sudden,  simply because it was CHRIST which in fact, addressed PETER directly as "satan", is thereby (in order to facilitate "your theology") "AN adversary" and not "THE adversary"??   :laughing7:  Please!

The only references that I can find noting "THE adversary", do not use the word "satan"...  :dontknow:

Otherwise, your doubletalk -- "THE adversary", is for your own benefit, used in order to withhold potential correction of potentially flawed thinking...

If one says of an enemy (country) which proposes war: Our ADVERSARY threatens our country.   They are indeed speaking of another COLLECTIVE entity (country), not a Particular person which threatens them...

CHRIST did not speak lightly here to PETER... He sternly  CHIDED him... DIRECTLY after stating that PETER would be an instrument in the establishment of HIS church, by HANDING him the KEYS to the KINGDOM of HEAVEN!  ...

Peter, at the time he was telling Christ not to go to the cross was adversarial to His goal. Christ was not implying that Peter was Satan in the flesh.

That is because there "is" no "satan" in the flesh as a being... ADVERSITY is proposed by an OPPOSING thought or action Tony... it has no GENDER, and has no sentience of its own, no more that laughter is a being which THINKS to come out of us when we hear a good joke.

The facts ARE:  Peter was IN FLESH and was CALLED by CHRIST, ...satan... You, in your continuing and PURPOSED avoidance of these FACTS, note that there was or WAS NOT, ...UNSTATED IMPLICATION is an addtion to what CHRIST PLAINLY said...  He ADDRESSED Peter as "satan" and then defined the "satan" that he was...

Matt 16:23  but He turned and SAID UNTO PETER:  Get THEE behind Me, ...satan, --- THOU, ART an offense unto Me for THOU savorest NOT, the things that BE of GOD, but those that be of MEN.

CHRIST was not "implying" anything!  He FLAT OUT called PETER, ..."satan"!  And that PETER, in his present state was about CARNAL understanding which amounts to LIES... and was SAVORING this understanding as HIS OWN... rather than the SPIRITUAL Words which CHRIST spoke... CHRIST was OFFENDED... for LIES ...OFFEND the TRUTH...

YOU cannot see this at this time, because it is not yet your time to SEE IT...  :sigh:  It is GOD's choosing when and IF, you shall know it...

There IS NO such thing as "satan in the flesh" Tony... THIS, is my point!  "satan" has no existence as a being, rather is a PRINCIPALITY or POWER, which exists to be ADVERSITY in this world TO MAN, in the various ways it WAS NOT before ADAM fell to IT's INFLUENCE and manifestations by submitting to IT's LIES...

Anyone and anything ADVERSARIAL is "satan"... in this case PETER's words, were ADVERSARIAL to the mission of CHRIST...

The word "satan" as used by CHRIST in Matt 16:23 is followed by (after naming Peter this), ..."THOU ART"...   Who "art" Tony?  ...Peter/satan, ..."art", ...bro!

Plain & simple... no need to dance around it...

Christ did not say He would build His church on Peter's ministry but upon the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

In order to keep yourself convinced that your "theology" is correct, not only do you deny that CHRIST named Peter as "satan" and qualify it to fit your beliefs, but you also deny that CHRIST in this text, is naming Peter a foundational element (rock) upon which He shall build His Church...

This just amounts to more convenient self-erected, theology... CHRIST, after naming PETER a "rock", noted that He would hand over the KEYS of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN to him... This is stating that PETER himself, would have the KEYS with which to UNLOCK the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, and thereby be an ESSENTIAL and FOUNDATIONAL "rock" upon which MEN would be used to garner other men, according to the PURPOSE of GOD ...IN MEN... while in the Earthly/Evil realm of TIME...

CHRIST was most certainly noting that the ministry of the Kindom of HEAVEN, and its foundation was being placed in the hands of PETER... even though you percieve differently... by arguing with the statements plainly made to Peter by JESUS here, in order to rid yourself of the other problem which noted "satan" as being within Peter as well...

He had just proclaimed that PETER's knowledge which had just AFFIRMED CHRIST's position was NOT revealed by man, but by the SPIRIT of the LIVING GOD... and then BLESSED Peter... by saying the FATHER had revealed this to him...

Then just scant moments later, JESUS turns around to Peter and PLAINLY call him "satan"... with a "thou art" to follow his notation, which removes any doubt that PETER is this!

YOU are too stubborn to see it... making excuses, instead of submitting to correction...

I said it before bro, and will repeat it here... the biggest difference between us is that I am ABLE to admit error and have ALREADY DONE SO in this conversation, ...TO YOU!   You have plainly displayed that you have yet to gain this humility... and there is a high probability that such humility is part of  the purpose GOD has for BOTH of us in this convo...   :dontknow:

I would like to say a word or two about Masculinity and Femininity as it appears in foreign language... as I said before (and continue to maintain), I am NOT a linguist, however, ...I did not say that I am ignorant of foreign language... nor how it works in a different sense than English...

I also said I am NOT a scholar, but did NOT say that I am ignorant of KNOWLEDGE which they "claim to have" due to SCHOLARSHIP... I believe SPIRITUAL understanding is NOT by necessity, connected with Biblical, Greek or Hebrew SCHOLARSHIP...

It alone, is REVELATION by GOD, which can occur even in a child, with NO "SCHOLARSHIP" whatsoever in the categories I just named...

I did study Spanish for a time, and there are factual things concerning Masculinity and Femininity which appear in the course of language of which I AM aware...

For example... words such as the "SKY" in Spanish (el "Cielo"), is referenced in the Masculine form (the form of "el" [the] preceeding the use of the word and the word itself ending in "o" dictate  the word as Masc.), but the "SKY" has NO GENDER whatsoever, it is NEITHER Male nor Female nor is it particularly Masculine OR Feminine...

Also... words such as COCKROACH in Spanish (La Cucharacha) is referenced in the Feminine (the form of "la" [the] preceeding the word, and the word itself ending in "a" dictate the word as  Fem.), even though there are both MALE and FEMALE COCKROACHES...

That a word in foreign language has a Masculine observation does NOT indicate that the WORD means the thing noted is MALE/Masculine... same applies with the FEMALE/Feminine...  :dontknow:

peace bro...  :icon_king:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:gamer:  willieH   :Peace2:

[peacemaker]

Thanks for the nice thoughts peacemaker. You are most welcome, Tony. May I say something though without causing any upset? Sure, that's your choice, and it will have no effect on the soundness of my mind or the condition of my heart; mentally or emotionally.

I believe there really is a being God created named Satan. I know you do. I also believe that Jesus cast out demons who could talk with Jesus. No doubt, again, your choice. I don't believe in hell. That's good, however, a half-truth can be worse than a whole lie. So I guess I'm not trying to justify an orthodox hell by believing in these beings. If you say so, but they usually go, together.

If it is idolatry, is Jesus an idolater for He spoke with Satan and spoke with demons in people. It was the person, themselves, who spoke. Neither am I an idolater. Immoderately or without knowledge, not to be offensive or to upset you?

John the revelator saw Satan being locked up in the submerged chaos also called the abyss. Later on, when the 1000 years is ending it is stated that Satan will be loosed out of that abyss and he will gather the nations against the holy city. As you see it.

Rev 20:2 And he lays hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Adversary and Satan, and binds him a thousand years."

You would not say "who is the adversary and adversary." Neither did John think this being was "adversity." He saw him as a being. Nor would you say "who is the Satan and Satan?"

But one could say "who is the accuser and adversary?" or "who is the adversary and deceiver?" Indeed, two different meanings. And John saw him (Satan) as a being? This appears to be based on your belief?

While he is locked up the nations that mistreated Christ's brothers will enter into eonian (age-abiding) chastening (Matt.25:31-46) so we know there will still be nations who are adversarial while Satan is locked up. So we know Satan is not locked up in people's flesh and then let out later. And the whole earth will learn righteousness. No more fables having the inclination of men.

So to sum up this post:

Jesus spoke with Satan, spoke with demons and cast demons out of people. Yes, this is what you believe. Satan really did enter Judas and made Judas give up Jesus. Again, what you believe. Satan was not in Judas before he entered Judas so Satan is not in everyone's flesh (not that you believe that but there are people on these boards who do). True to a certain point, but Judas did not have the mind of Christ, either.

I don't think you are better than me just because you don't agree with me. This has never crossed over into my mind. And in the same vein, you are no worse than any other – for all have sinned. But ALL will come to the knowledge of the truth, each in their own era.

peacemaker

Great balance PM.

cp

"Christ tipped the scales over, otherwise there would be no balance."

PM

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tony! :hithere:

I also believe God will save all mankind. But, hey, I'm probably wrong on that too.

You (and I) as believers in the Salvation of ALL, could be Tony...   :dontknow:

Just because we "believe" a given teaching, does not make it so...  :JCThink:

The WORD ...and... LOGIC must confirm that which we believe...

LOGIC is necessary in our beliefs... for God said:  "Come let us REASON together"...

REASON requires LOGIC and TRUTH... and if we are not capable of REASONING, then He was asking of us, something that is not possible... and THAT is not POSSIBLE or He would not make such a statement of invitation.

It is not LOGICAL (IMO) that God would create a being which is vastly more powerful than ourselves, omnipresent as is He, and COMPLETE in the knowledge of ALL THINGS which can tempt man into sin and INVISIBLE to boot!!

It is far MORE LOGICAL to believe that GOD made each man and/or woman with a NATURAL capability to DISOBEY, by yielding to his/her senses which are CARNAL by NATURE, and to fall to them without any assistance of an external SUPERNATURAL being which would be necessary to prompt us to do so.

The "accusing" is done by the LAW which is Holy, Just, and GOOD... The LAW of GOD is not "satanic" as a being, rather... it is a set of standards that prove HOLINESS... and point out UNHOLINESS in those who do not uphold those standards via their living  actions AND thought process...

As Paul pointed out in Rom 7 in his own plight... the LAW is the accuser or of our actions, if in fact those actions are found contrary TO IT...

It is also the CONFIRMATION of that which is HOLY... only CHRIST walked this earth completely within that CONFIRMATION... as for the rest of us, only IN HIM may we walk as did He... on our own, the LAW is our ADVERSARY and displays itself as ADVERSE to our NATURAL (non-CHRIST submitted) actions AND thoughts...


In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...  :trampoline:

:gamer:  willieH  :angelharp:

[Tony N]

So what's your point, willie?

[peacemaker]

So what's your point, willie?

"A turning point?" :hihat:

peacemaker

[claypot]

willieH: Hi Tony! :hithere:

I also believe God will save all mankind. But, hey, I'm probably wrong on that too.

You (and I) as believers in the Salvation of ALL, could be Tony...   :dontknow:

Just because we "believe" a given teaching, does not make it so...  :JCThink:

The WORD ...and... LOGIC must confirm that which we believe...

LOGIC is necessary in our beliefs... for God said:  "Come let us REASON together"...

REASON requires LOGIC and TRUTH... and if we are not capable of REASONING, then He was asking of us, something that is not possible... and THAT is not POSSIBLE or He would not make such a statement of invitation.

It is not LOGICAL (IMO) that God would create a being which is vastly more powerful than ourselves, omnipresent as is He, and COMPLETE in the knowledge of ALL THINGS which can tempt man into sin and INVISIBLE to boot!!

It is far MORE LOGICAL to believe that GOD made each man and/or woman with a NATURAL capability to DISOBEY, by yielding to his/her senses which are CARNAL by NATURE, and to fall to them without any assistance of an external SUPERNATURAL being which would be necessary to prompt us to do so.

The "accusing" is done by the LAW which is Holy, Just, and GOOD... The LAW of GOD is not "satanic" as a being, rather... it is a set of standards that prove HOLINESS... and point out UNHOLINESS in those who do not uphold those standards via their living  actions AND thought process...

As Paul pointed out in Rom 7 in his own plight... the LAW is the accuser or of our actions, if in fact those actions are found contrary TO IT...

It is also the CONFIRMATION of that which is HOLY... only CHRIST walked this earth completely within that CONFIRMATION... as for the rest of us, only IN HIM may we walk as did He... on our own, the LAW is our ADVERSARY and displays itself as ADVERSE to our NATURAL (non-CHRIST submitted) actions AND thoughts...


In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...  :trampoline:

:gamer:  willieH  :angelharp:

Willie, not that others don't too but you have an energy that is astounding. Your words are a balm to my very being too and I want to thank you.

cp

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tony! :hithere:

So what's your point, willie?

hmmm... whats my point?  :Chinscratch:

My "point" is that no Supernatural being, possessing (NEGATIVELY), many of the attributes we believe that our GOD actually possesses, ...is LOGICALLY necessary in this realm... GOD was well able to establish ADVERSITY without such a "being", and in my present observation, did just that...

It (my "point") is also, ...whatsoever we as individuals, "believe" ...has the potential to be incorrect... and we must remain humble as we search, in order that when (and if) REVELATION presents itself, we are found in a state, worthy to recieve it... The Pharisees displayed the state which is UNWORTHY, which busied itself with trying to pick apart the testimony of the TRUTH, using RELIGIOUS TRADITION to do so...  and their continuing blindness was the result.  :sigh:

Furthermore my "point" is that, ...REVELATION from GOD, is the ONLY way any of our observations shall be CORRECTED (if indeed they are incorrect), ...this shall not be accomplished by noting ourselves as correct and the other person incorrect, ...by comparing our "belief" to theirs and if they oppose, ...finding them as incorrect...  :dontknow:

THAT is me-point,  ...me-bratha...  :icon_rr:  :happygrin:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...  :trampoline:

:gamer:  willieH  :angelharp:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi CP... :hithere:

willieH: Hi Tony! :hithere:

I also believe God will save all mankind. But, hey, I'm probably wrong on that too.

You (and I) as believers in the Salvation of ALL, could be Tony...   :dontknow:

Just because we "believe" a given teaching, does not make it so...  :JCThink:

The WORD ...and... LOGIC must confirm that which we believe...

LOGIC is necessary in our beliefs... for God said:  "Come let us REASON together"...

REASON requires LOGIC and TRUTH... and if we are not capable of REASONING, then He was asking of us, something that is not possible... and THAT is not POSSIBLE or He would not make such a statement of invitation.

It is not LOGICAL (IMO) that God would create a being which is vastly more powerful than ourselves, omnipresent as is He, and COMPLETE in the knowledge of ALL THINGS which can tempt man into sin and INVISIBLE to boot!!

It is far MORE LOGICAL to believe that GOD made each man and/or woman with a NATURAL capability to DISOBEY, by yielding to his/her senses which are CARNAL by NATURE, and to fall to them without any assistance of an external SUPERNATURAL being which would be necessary to prompt us to do so.

The "accusing" is done by the LAW which is Holy, Just, and GOOD... The LAW of GOD is not "satanic" as a being, rather... it is a set of standards that prove HOLINESS... and point out UNHOLINESS in those who do not uphold those standards via their living  actions AND thought process...

As Paul pointed out in Rom 7 in his own plight... the LAW is the accuser or of our actions, if in fact those actions are found contrary TO IT...

It is also the CONFIRMATION of that which is HOLY... only CHRIST walked this earth completely within that CONFIRMATION... as for the rest of us, only IN HIM may we walk as did He... on our own, the LAW is our ADVERSARY and displays itself as ADVERSE to our NATURAL (non-CHRIST submitted) actions AND thoughts...


In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...  :trampoline:

:gamer:  willieH  :angelharp:

Willie, not that others don't too but you have an energy that is astounding. Your words are a balm to my very being too and I want to thank you.

cp

:ty:  For such encouragement CP, ...I am quite blessed that you find my words as helpful...  :friendstu:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...  :trampoline:

:gamer:  willieH  :angelharp:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen cp, that he does...... :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

Just to throw my hat in this . . .first . . .Willie . . .you've been a blessing . .thoroughly enjoy your posts bro . . .again!!!

The thing with Peter . . .I see it is not about a ministry of a man, but a communication of God.  The rock that Christ is building on is not Peter the man, but it's the fact that this was the first time Peter got a revelation from God . . .why do I say that?  For one, because Jesus had to explain where that one came from . . . and two . . . it changed Peter's identity . . .the reason why I don't think it was so much a call to Peter going into ministry is because I believe that came when the call went out to the other eleven.

So . . what was the Rock?  It is the act of the Father REVEALING his son to man.  Upon that rock . . .upon the rock of spiritual revelation . . .not by flesh and blood . . .upon the rock of revelation through intimacy with the Father, Christ will build his kingdom . . .and it changed Peter's nature internally . . .even though it didn't readily manifest that change outwardly right away . .obviously . . .but when the spirit poured out on all flesh . . .when Peter had that upper room experience . . .the transformation of this nature then manifested.

What Jesus was doing here was . . prophesying . . calling things out as though they are . . . Somewhere someone wrote faith is not believing that God can . . it's believing that God will.

Who ever wrote that . . .thank you . .that was my nugget for the week.  There is much that lies beneath the surface of that . . .and my spirit has been hovering over the face of the depths of that ever since.  Birthing of even more life is on it's way!! :happy3:

[Molly]

So . . what was the Rock? It is the act of the Father REVEALING his son to man.  Upon that rock . . .upon the rock of spiritual revelation . . .not by flesh and blood . . .upon the rock of revelation through intimacy with the Father, Christ will build his kingdom

Yes!!  It is the revelation of the Son to each one of us.  To each one of us, in our time,  he says--



.. thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

--Mat 16

[peacemaker]

"Faith is not believing that God can, it's knowing that He will"

peacemaker

[Tony N]

willieH: Hi Tony! :hithere:

So what's your point, willie?

hmmm... whats my point?  :Chinscratch:

My "point" is that no Supernatural being, possessing (NEGATIVELY), many of the attributes we believe that our GOD actually possesses, ...is LOGICALLY necessary in this realm... GOD was well able to establish ADVERSITY without such a "being", and in my present observation, did just that...

Of course God could have but He did create Satan. If Satan is just a figment of our imagination then so is Jesus and Michael the archangel. I mean God was well able to establish salvation without such a "being" as Jesus, and in my present observation did not do just that. He could have created an angelic concept without Michael but didn't.

It (my "point") is also, ...whatsoever we as individuals, "believe" ...has the potential to be incorrect... and we must remain humble as we search, in order that when (and if) REVELATION presents itself, we are found in a state, worthy to recieve it... The Pharisees displayed the state which is UNWORTHY, which busied itself with trying to pick apart the testimony of the TRUTH, using RELIGIOUS TRADITION to do so...  and their continuing blindness was the result.  :sigh:

Yes and the Bereans searched the Scriptures to see if these things were so  and they were more noble than the others.

Furthermore my "point" is that, ...REVELATION from GOD, is the ONLY way any of our observations shall be CORRECTED (if indeed they are incorrect), ...this shall not be accomplished by noting ourselves as correct and the other person incorrect, ...by comparing our "belief" to theirs and if they oppose, ...finding them as incorrect...  :dontknow:

I don't ever recall that believing opposite of what the Bible says was a revelation from God. I don't compare my belief to another belief, but compare it to the Bible. What saith the Scriptures? That's the point.

THAT is me-point,  ...me-bratha...  :icon_rr:  :happygrin:

I have to admit, I got a good belly laugh out of that above. Thanks bratha!