What is Jesus? Spirit or flesh?

[Nathan]

Many of you who've been reading along in the spirit/natural thread have probably read our little argument concerning whether or not Jesus is a spirit, or if he is flesh.  I came across this verse today and would like to give Tony an opportunity to explain it for me . . .

Colossians 1
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:  27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

Question . .. "if" Christ is NOT spirit . .then HOW can he be IN me?

[WhiteWings]

Because my name is also Tony I'll reply  :laughing7:
For me Jesus was either flesh or flesh+spirit.
Just because a spirit can't be killed by crucifixion.
IMO a spirit can't even be touched.

[Molly]

If Jesus is not [the Word become] flesh, how can he be in Me?

[Nathan]

It's not your flesh that he's in . . .if he was, you would never have another impure thought again . . you would never have another cold, lose a tooth, have a headache . . .never be overweight, underweight . . .never have another pimple . . . AND there never would have been the verse stating that flesh profits nothing. 

All your flesh is . . .is the wrapper containing your spirit.  Jesus didn't redeem your wrapper . . .he redeemed your spirit back to him.

WW . . . you are right, spirit can not be destroyed. 

Do you guys believe that Jesus can come to us in different forms?  Or in the flesh only?

[adam]

Nathan:

All your flesh is . . .is the wrapper containing your spirit.

Hi Nathan,  yep that accords  with what I've been taught,  we all have three elements to our being - body, soul and spirit (1 Thes 5:23).

Its through the spirit that we are united with God, once we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.
1 Cor 6:17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

As you say the spirit is totally redeemned once we accept Jesus.  Our soul starts to be redeemned to, but that is only completed after death. ( i think of soul as meaning our individual spirit).

[WhiteWings]

WW . . . you are right, spirit can not be destroyed. 

So the temple mentioned in the verse is His body = flesh.
So Jesus said He was flesh.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Do you guys believe that Jesus can come to us in different forms?  Or in the flesh only?

The power of Jesus is so vast He can come in any shape of form IMO.

Question . .. "if" Christ is NOT spirit . .then HOW can he be IN me?

If I understand things correctly Jesus is not in us because He's in heaven and gave that task of guiding us to the HS?????

[Molly]

WW . . . you are right, spirit can not be destroyed. 

So the temple mentioned in the verse is His body = flesh.
So Jesus said He was flesh.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Do you guys believe that Jesus can come to us in different forms?  Or in the flesh only?

The power of Jesus is so vast He can come in any shape of form IMO.

Question . .. "if" Christ is NOT spirit . .then HOW can he be IN me?

If I understand things correctly Jesus is not in us because He's in heaven and gave that task of guiding us to the HS?????

Yes--the temple is his flesh and ours, too, because we are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone--


23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

--Gen 2


1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

--John 15



Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

[Taffy]

WW . . . you are right, spirit can not be destroyed. 

So the temple mentioned in the verse is His body = flesh.
So Jesus said He was flesh.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Do you guys believe that Jesus can come to us in different forms?  Or in the flesh only?

The power of Jesus is so vast He can come in any shape of form IMO.

Question . .. "if" Christ is NOT spirit . .then HOW can he be IN me?

If I understand things correctly Jesus is not in us because He's in heaven and gave that task of guiding us to the HS?????

Yes--the temple is his flesh and ours, too, because we are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone--


23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

--Gen 2


1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

--John 15

Thats sounds familier.... :happygrin:

[claypot]

Many of you who've been reading along in the spirit/natural thread have probably read our little argument concerning whether or not Jesus is a spirit, or if he is flesh.  I came across this verse today and would like to give Tony an opportunity to explain it for me . . .

Colossians 1
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:  27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

Question . .. "if" Christ is NOT spirit . .then HOW can he be IN me?

As to your title question, Nathan, I would answer a definite 'Yes'.

I know you know what I mean.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

I'm not so convinced by that verse...
I can also read it as: Jesus is constantly in my mind. Just like you say yo your loved ones: I have locked you in my heart.
Then you express great love towards that person. I know you have a big heart Molly but I doubt your husband fits in it  :laughing7:

[sheila]

   we are one with His flesh..if we are considered the body of Christ...So He can 'come 'in our flesh by His Holy spirit..
actually all mankind dwelling in flesh is of His body...that
is why He came in flesh to start with..to redeem all those
of mankind

  ... I and the Father will sup with you..I knock at the door

   Rev 3;20

   keep knocking Luke 11;14

   Mattew 25;1  Parable of the ten virgins.....

   they all fell asleep..but some took oil[Holy spirit] in their
   vessels

[onlytruth]

hi everyone;don't post much... but i keep getting this umption to let it out of my spirit.
jesus is just a man in the flesh,christ is the anointing that came upon him.this anointing is available to all of us.jesus was the first(of many)begotten sons(daughters).he was showing us the way,he was showing us the truth;he was showing us the salvation we can have from the daily turmoil(the abundant life"eternal life")
jesus is the manifestation of what God is;when we see jesus-we see God.when people see us ..they should see God.this is what the world is waiting for the manifestation of the sons and daughters.praise God that all will be reconciled through his bride...i just hope it happens soon
blessings :icon_king:

[Taffy]

hi everyone;don't post much... but i keep getting this umption to let it out of my spirit.
jesus is just a man in the flesh,christ is the anointing that came upon him.this anointing is available to all of us.jesus was the first(of many)begotten sons(daughters).he was showing us the way,he was showing us the truth;he was showing us the salvation we can have from the daily turmoil(the abundant life"eternal life")
jesus is the manifestation of what God is;when we see jesus-we see God.when people see us ..they should see God.this is what the world is waiting for the manifestation of the sons and daughters.praise God that all will be reconciled through his bride...i just hope it happens soon
blessings :icon_king:

Nice to hear from you Onlytruth :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

Nathan,
Christ told His disciples He was flesh and bones and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones(cf Luke 24:39).

This does not mean Christ does not have a spirit. He does. It is that invisible, imperceptible power He has.

in 1 Peter 10,11 Peter talks about the prophets:

"searching into what or what manner of era the spirit of Christ in them made evident, when testifying beforehand to the sufferings pertaining to Christ and the glories after these."

That was before Christ came of a virgin. He sent His spirit to those prophets to inform them of the future concerning Himself (while He was still in heaven).

Christ is still sitting at the right hand of God until . . .
Act 3:21 Whom heaven must indeed receive until the times of restoration of all which God speaks through the mouth of His holy prophets who are from the eon.

Now then, while Christ as He is comprised of flesh and bones and spirit (without blood, since He shed His blood for all mankind) and is seated in heaven UNTIL . . . this does not mean He cannot send His spirit to us. It is that same spirit which raised Him from the dead which will also raise us from the dead. We have His spirit. This does not mean that His spirit vacated His flesh and bone body in heaven and He is now spiritless.

We also have God's spirit in us. This does not mean God vacated His spirit and gave it all to us. God is still spirit and fills heaven and earth.

[micah7:9]

I must give my total affirmation to CP; the answer he gave of "YES." I am humbled. Dave

[Nathan]

Just for the sake of clarification cp . . .the "yes" would then be saying that he is flesh because I am flesh and he is manifesting himself "through" me . . . is this what you're seeing?

A question to others . . .if Christ is literally in the same flesh that he was in 2000 years ago . .in that the body he had then is the same body he has now as he sits at the rigth hand of God . . .has Christ always been flesh then?  What was he before he came as Jesus?

[claypot]

Just for the sake of clarification cp . . .the "yes" would then be saying that he is flesh because I am flesh and he is manifesting himself "through" me . . . is this what you're seeing?

A question to others . . .if Christ is literally in the same flesh that he was in 2000 years ago . .in that the body he had then is the same body he has now as he sits at the rigth hand of God . . .has Christ always been flesh then?  What was he before he came as Jesus?

Hey Nathan,

You have helped me see something in a more clear way. Your question stopped me short when I came to the word 'always'. This is the crux of the matter to me. 'Always' denotes time and I believe God and Jesus live outside of that realm. They live in it too of course but I think Gods home turf is where there is no time.

Jesus Christ is. He is flesh eternally somehow and He is spirit eternally somehow. Whatever Jesus 'was' He is eternally. Yes, He is being crucified eternally but it is finished eternally too. Now take that with a couple of beers and see where you end up. I usually end up in la la land but I keep going back to God for more!

cp

[Tony N]

Just for the sake of clarification cp . . .the "yes" would then be saying that he is flesh because I am flesh and he is manifesting himself "through" me . . . is this what you're seeing?

A question to others . . .if Christ is literally in the same flesh that he was in 2000 years ago . .in that the body he had then is the same body he has now as he sits at the rigth hand of God . . .has Christ always been flesh then?  What was he before he came as Jesus?

Hey Nathan,

You have helped me see something in a more clear way. Your question stopped me short when I came to the word 'always'. This is the crux of the matter to me. 'Always' denotes time and I believe God and Jesus live outside of that realm. They live in it too of course but I think Gods home turf is where there is no time.

Jesus Christ is. He is flesh eternally somehow and He is spirit eternally somehow. Whatever Jesus 'was' He is eternally. Yes, He is being crucified eternally but it is finished eternally too. Now take that with a couple of beers and see where you end up. I usually end up in la la land but I keep going back to God for more!

cp

claypot, me thinks ye be havin a bit way too much of that beer.
Such philosophy is not to be found in the Scriptures.
I am beginning to see a crack in your pot. You know what that means? he he.

[claypot]

Just for the sake of clarification cp . . .the "yes" would then be saying that he is flesh because I am flesh and he is manifesting himself "through" me . . . is this what you're seeing?

A question to others . . .if Christ is literally in the same flesh that he was in 2000 years ago . .in that the body he had then is the same body he has now as he sits at the rigth hand of God . . .has Christ always been flesh then?  What was he before he came as Jesus?

Hey Nathan,

You have helped me see something in a more clear way. Your question stopped me short when I came to the word 'always'. This is the crux of the matter to me. 'Always' denotes time and I believe God and Jesus live outside of that realm. They live in it too of course but I think Gods home turf is where there is no time.

Jesus Christ is. He is flesh eternally somehow and He is spirit eternally somehow. Whatever Jesus 'was' He is eternally. Yes, He is being crucified eternally but it is finished eternally too. Now take that with a couple of beers and see where you end up. I usually end up in la la land but I keep going back to God for more!

cp

claypot, me thinks ye be havin a bit way too much of that beer.
Such philosophy is not to be found in the Scriptures.
I am beginning to see a crack in your pot. You know what that means? he he.

You da funny guy but I must thank you. I know of One other who was called a crackpot of sorts for talking of things way beyond His audience. You have paid me a high compliment and I hope to be able to return the favor some day.

cp

[WhiteWings]

You da funny guy but I must thank you. I know of One other who was called a crackpot of sorts for talking of things way beyond His audience. You have paid me a high compliment and I hope to be able to return the favor some day.

Good counter  :thumbsup:

[Nathan]

Just for the sake of clarification cp . . .the "yes" would then be saying that he is flesh because I am flesh and he is manifesting himself "through" me . . . is this what you're seeing?

A question to others . . .if Christ is literally in the same flesh that he was in 2000 years ago . .in that the body he had then is the same body he has now as he sits at the rigth hand of God . . .has Christ always been flesh then?  What was he before he came as Jesus?

Hey Nathan,

You have helped me see something in a more clear way. Your question stopped me short when I came to the word 'always'. This is the crux of the matter to me. 'Always' denotes time and I believe God and Jesus live outside of that realm. They live in it too of course but I think Gods home turf is where there is no time.

Jesus Christ is. He is flesh eternally somehow and He is spirit eternally somehow. Whatever Jesus 'was' He is eternally. Yes, He is being crucified eternally but it is finished eternally too. Now take that with a couple of beers and see where you end up. I usually end up in la la land but I keep going back to God for more!

cp

I'll take that beer and raise you a keg!  (seriously . . .I do hate the flavor of beer . . . now . .mixed drinks on the other hand . . .ya boy!!!)

I love your POV on the time issue.  God doesn't live by time, we do.  The fact that we base our time according to the sun is quite a picture in and of itself.  That aside . . .I see that Christ has always been a spirit.  God is a spirit . . .and Christ is his son . .which is also spirit . . .and the Holy Spirit is spirit.  The son manfested as Christ "in the flesh" to redeem men which are spirits living in flesh back to God . .who is spirit.  

When it was finished, Jesus flesh died on the cross, was buried . . .his spirit went to the core of man, the place of the dead . .and he exercised his life in that realm of death, which manifested the authority of life over death . . .and as a result, his body of flesh was resurrected IN A NEW STATE OF BEING.  At which point, he was flesh in that he could be touched, but he was spirit in that he was not bound by the physics of this earth.  I don't seem him manifesting in his old flesh just to show everyone he was flesh . . .I believe he manifested in this realm to show that he "is" the resurrection.  It was for our benefit that he came in the flesh because that's what he promised to do.  And when that promise was complete, he went back into the spirit, which is where he's been ever since.  

The spirit in me is the spirit that was in him, yes.  But it's also him in me as well.  That's where the separation of understanding comes in because my mind wants to see a difinitive line between God, Jesus, and the Spirit . . .even though Jesus bent over backward trying to explain that the three are all "one".

[Tony N]

You da funny guy but I must thank you. I know of One other who was called a crackpot of sorts for talking of things way beyond His audience. You have paid me a high compliment and I hope to be able to return the favor some day.

cp

Did I call you a crackpot? Not me!  :laughing7:
What you wrote is not beyond me, it is beneath me. Philosophy should have no part of our theology as the Bible is dead set against the wisdom of this world. To say Christ is eternally crucified and finished eternally too is just mumbo jumbo and means absolutely nothing.

[Nathan]

You da funny guy but I must thank you. I know of One other who was called a crackpot of sorts for talking of things way beyond His audience. You have paid me a high compliment and I hope to be able to return the favor some day.

cp

Did I call you a crackpot? Not me!  :laughing7:
What you wrote is not beyond me, it is beneath me. Philosophy should have no part of our theology as the Bible is dead set against the wisdom of this world. To say Christ is eternally crucified and finished eternally too is just mumbo jumbo and means absolutely nothing.

Bats that live in caves seem to see everything that is above them, is beneath them to,  just like you do . ..  That is until they're no longer hanging upside down and begin to fly. :laughing7:

[claypot]

You da funny guy but I must thank you. I know of One other who was called a crackpot of sorts for talking of things way beyond His audience. You have paid me a high compliment and I hope to be able to return the favor some day.

cp

Did I call you a crackpot? Not me!  :laughing7:
What you wrote is not beyond me, it is beneath me. Philosophy should have no part of our theology as the Bible is dead set against the wisdom of this world. To say Christ is eternally crucified and finished eternally too is just mumbo jumbo and means absolutely nothing.

Philosophy means a love of wisdom. Wisdom is truth believed and lived out.

Tony, according to you, there is only physical ground beneath you.

Are you going to answer any of my questions over on the 'other' thread or I have lost favor in your sight and you deem me beneath you?

Search the Scriptures and you will see I speak of what is in them. I only seek to honor God by living and seeing life through only His Word so unless you can tell me you know all there is to know of Scripture please refrain from making absurd comments like "To say Christ is eternally crucified and finished eternally too is just mumbo jumbo and means absolutely nothing." You are way out of your league in this Brother.

cp

[sheila]

  Hi Guys,

   I was just watching on the science channel..how we see.

   The gift of vision and the perception of what we see.

   I thought of how Jesus said..If you have seen me,you have

  seen the Father.

    Also ,on the show they had the picture in black and white

   of a vase, or two silhouetes[?] of a man's face,facing

   one another. The brain can not comprehend the duality of

   what is seen at the same time... the scientist on the

   program said something I found profound about it


     PERCEPTION IS ALWAYS AN OPINION...IT INVOLVES

     JUDGEMENT OF THE OBSERVOR


  why did God send His son in flesh.?..so we could comprehend

  Him...or know Him or see Him.


  Regarding that judgement of the observor...I think of what

  the Pharisees and Sadducees perceived Jesus to be....

  and I think of the wittnesses/disciples of Him, and how they

  perceived Him to be.


    I think of Christendom and how they perceive him to be,

    all the various denomination's and their perceptions.

    Also, the Muslims,and their perception of God.

        And finally, I think of us, and our various perceptions.

  and the  involving of judgement of the observor..as to what

  he perceives....

    and then the  one act  of justification[Romans 5;18] by the

  Son of God

  Matthew 7;2 Judge not,that ye be not judged. For with

  what judgement ye judge,ye shall be judged; and with what

  measure ye mete,it shall be measured to you again.


    Rev 14;7  Fear God and give Glory to Him; for the Hour of

  His judgement is come.[Rev15;4] ...and all nations shall come

 and worship before thee; for THY JUDGEMENTS are made

 manifest

   Rev 19;2  For TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS ARE HIS JUDGEMENTS;

  FOR HE HATH JUDGED THE GREAT WHORE,WHICH DID

  CORRUPT THE EARTH WITH HER FORNICATION,AND HATH

  AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS SERVANTS AT HER HAND


                                      Sheila