Why would the World hate Jesus?

[YoungYuni]

But who is the world?    Seems in the bible the ones that hated Jesus were religious people. 

Hiya!

I just read this!

Amazing how simple observations really change the outlook of what exactly the WORLD is.

:happy3: :winkgrin:

[JeffA]

As a representative of the world I'd like to know why it is I hate neither you Christians nor Jesus?

Jeff - The Agnostic Universalist.

[Mickiel]

As a representative of the world I'd like to know why it is I hate neither you Christians nor Jesus?

Jeff - The Agnostic Universalist.

As the person best avialible to answer yourself, why don't you explain to us why you do not hate.

I am like yourself, I do not hate Jesus or the World, but I agree with the bible in its observation that the world hates God, and I agree with its understanding that they hate Jesus also. Thats why they killed him once, and will try to kill him again AFTER the 1000 year period of Peace om earth.

I often wonder just how much hate is really in me. I tend to hate sin, evil and how that effects me and this world.

I also hate fruitcake.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

I hate the fact that God hides himself. I hate that God has decided to take so long to return. I hate that I am powerless to change the things I want changed in this world, and in the bible. I hate certain things that I do, so hate gets into me, but I really do not know hate that well, just as I do not know Love all that well.

But thats another reason why we hate, because we just don't know what we are doing. The world hates God because they don't know what they are doing. The world killed Jesus because they didnot know what they were doing.

Interesting, a person can kill, and not even understand why. Or can hate and not know why.

Peace.

[JeffA]

OK.

here goes..

I think that there are many atheists/agnostics (Dawkins and Hitchens for example) who could fairly be said to hate Christianity (though you would be hard pressed to make me believe they hate Christians).  Most humanists are happy to espouse views not unlike Christians in that they think it is beneficial for us all to live in peace and harmony.

The biblical idea of the world hating God is when people do not align with all of God's attitudes to all things (willingly I mean not against their wills).  So I guess the fact that I don't believe that homosexuals deserve any kind of discrimination (for example - not all christians will agree) probably puts me into enmity with God - but I certainly don't hate Him or Christians.

[Mickiel]

OK.

here goes..

I think that there are many atheists/agnostics (Dawkins and Hitchens for example) who could fairly be said to hate Christianity (though you would be hard pressed to make me believe they hate Christians).  Most humanists are happy to espouse views not unlike Christians in that they think it is beneficial for us all to live in peace and harmony.

The biblical idea of the world hating God is when people do not align with all of God's attitudes to all things (willingly I mean not against their wills).  So I guess the fact that I don't believe that homosexuals deserve any kind of discrimination (for example - not all christians will agree) probably puts me into enmity with God - but I certainly don't hate Him or Christians.

Why would you believe that not agreeing with the discrimination that is heaped on homosexuals would put you into enmity with God? I am curious, why do you think that? If this is the approach toward God that you have learned, I would seriously question that image you have allowed into your mind. I believe God himself does not want discrimination against homosexuals, or any kind toward any human.

Usually, distorted views of God, come from distorted believers of God, that is the orgin of religious distortion, it has come from believers, not unbelievers. The hadicap of the truth has been spread by believers of God.

Most people who hate God, don't know it or willnot admit it, its kind of like a closet hatred. Deep inside they really blame God for many things that they just don't like. They even curse him, some in their dying breath.

And I tell you, some of their hatred was developed by the way certain believers have spread their rediculous doctrines around this planet.

Peace.

[JeffA]

I did say (for example - not all Christians will agree)

But perhaps a better example would be my atheism.  All Christians would surely agree that by disbelieving in God I am putting myself in enmity with Him (if He does, contrary to my conclusion, exist).  But I still hate God no more than I hate the Tooth Fairy or Zeus or Osiris (all of whom Christians can only be agnostic about - they cannot prove absolutely that they do not exist otherwise they have to allow me the same courtesy in regard to their deity).

[Mickiel]

I did say (for example - not all Christians will agree)

But perhaps a better example would be my atheism.  All Christians would surely agree that by disbelieving in God I am putting myself in enmity with Him (if He does, contrary to my conclusion, exist).  But I still hate God no more than I hate the Tooth Fairy or Zeus or Osiris (all of whom Christians can only be agnostic about - they cannot prove absolutely that they do not exist otherwise they have to allow me the same courtesy in regard to their deity).

Well I disagree with those  christians who would say that. You are an Atheist because thats what your supposed to be. You admit to not being hostile toward God, what reason has God to be hostile toward you, just because you do not believe in him? What kind of being do you think God is? Not likeing someone because they don't like you is a human charactheristic, God is not human. God has no ill will toward Atheist. He loves you just as much as any believer .

God could careless about what you believe or do not believe. That is no concern of his. His power is far greater than you know, much greater than your unbelief. And one day you will come to know that. Just not today. God controls the day of your belief, just as he controls the days of your unbelief. You are Atheist, because thats what he wants you to be.

You, and I, will be what he wants us to be. When he wants us to be it.

Thats just how it is.

Peace.

[JeffA]

You admit to not being hostile toward God, what reason has God to be hostile toward you

Where did I say or imply that God hated me?

God controls the day of your belief, just as he controls the days of your unbelief. You are Atheist, because thats what he wants you to be.
You, and I, will be what he wants us to be. When he wants us to be it.
Thats just how it is.
Peace.

I appreciate the sentiment but that only your opinion of just how it is.

Best regards..

[Mickiel]

You admit to not being hostile toward God, what reason has God to be hostile toward you

Where did I say or imply that God hated me?

God controls the day of your belief, just as he controls the days of your unbelief. You are Atheist, because thats what he wants you to be.
You, and I, will be what he wants us to be. When he wants us to be it.
Thats just how it is.
Peace.

I appreciate the sentiment but that only your opinion of just how it is.

Best regards..

Don't misunderstand me, that was not sentiment, it is exactly what I believe, no emotion involved. These are facts, based on my understanding of God. God wanted there to be a certain amount of believers, a certain amount of unbelievers in this world, this century. He wanted a certain numerical amount of women, of men, of Atheist, of Catholics, of baptist, of whites, of blacks, of asians, and he filled that quota himself. For his own reasons.

You are Atheist because God wanted you to be one for his own reasons. He formed and shaped your mind to think exactly how you do. And you will stay in that frame of mind until he releases you.

Peace.

[JeffA]

I think you misunderstand me - you are claiming absolute certainty of knowledge that your version of 'how things really are' is absolute truth.  I am saying that it is only your opinion that it is the absolute truth.  In other words inside your brain, it may coincide with absolute reality but there again it might not, but you cannot claim absolute knowing or you would be claiming to BE God.  As a Christian you 'see through a glass darkly' as Paul said.

I understand what you are saying I just dispute your claim to perfect and absolute certainty about how you think reality is.

Best wishes (no animosity intended).

[Mickiel]

I think you misunderstand me - you are claiming absolute certainty of knowledge that your version of 'how things really are' is absolute truth.  I am saying that it is only your opinion that it is the absolute truth.  In other words inside your brain, it may coincide with absolute reality but there again it might not, but you cannot claim absolute knowing or you would be claiming to BE God.  As a Christian you 'see through a glass darkly' as Paul said.

I understand what you are saying I just dispute your claim to perfect and absolute certainty about how you think reality is.

Best wishes (no animosity intended).

No animosity felt.

I am not a Christian, don't misunderstand me. These are the facts as I understand them, I have never claimed to have absolute knowledge, but I offer what I have, and I absolutely believe it. As of today, I absolutely believe everything I have told you. I neither would waste your time or mind telling things that I do not believe. If I was unsure, I would say I am unsure.

I can say without a doubt, that you are an Atheist, because God wanted you to be one. If he wanted you to be a rabbitt, you would have been one. If he wanted me to be a fish, I would have been one.

There have been no mistakes, God has made no errors, we are what we are, because thats what he wanted us to be. He is just that Powerful, and I am sure of it.

Peace.

[JeffA]

I think we will just go round in circles so let's agree to disagree (thanks for the discussion)  :grin:

[Mickiel]

I think we will just go round in circles so let's agree to disagree (thanks for the discussion)  :grin:

Your welcome.

Peace.

[sheila]

  Hi Mickiel

   John 7;7  Therefore Jesus told them, 'the right time for me

has not yet come,for you anytime is right. The world can not

hate you,but it hates me BECAUSE I TESTIFY THAT WHAT IT

DOES IS EVIL

   John 3;19  This is the verdict, light has come into the world

but men loved darkness instead of the light, because their

deeds were evil.


   Exposure of the evil intentions,sin and wickedness,really

ticked off the religious leaders. Their hypocrisy as spiritual

  leaders was exposed.

   
  Do the same thing today,and you'll be hated


                                Sheila

[Mickiel]

  Hi Mickiel

   John 7;7  Therefore Jesus told them, 'the right time for me

has not yet come,for you anytime is right. The world can not

hate you,but it hates me BECAUSE I TESTIFY THAT WHAT IT

DOES IS EVIL

   John 3;19  This is the verdict, light has come into the world

but men loved darkness instead of the light, because their

deeds were evil.


   Exposure of the evil intentions,sin and wickedness,really

ticked off the religious leaders. Their hypocrisy as spiritual

  leaders was exposed.

   
  Do the same thing today,and you'll be hated


                                Sheila

Hello Sheila, so very true.

It ticks off unreligious people as well. People can love being evil, or being anti God, or anti anything that looks to establish good in the form of a God. They form their own views of Good which exclude God. We are of the group that believes, we gain a certain type of strength from that, they who do not believe, gain a certain type of strength from that group, they, like us, see themselves as set apart from what others believe.

They sense that they are " Called not to believe". They are correct, they simply follow their calling. Thats where they are supposed to be. We cannot pull each other to the calling, we only can bear witness to our own individual influence. The great force will determine our direction.

This is simply how it is.

This is wisdom.

We can argue and dispute wisdom, but in the end, it will have its way.

Peace.

[sheila]

                   :thumbsup:

[Mickiel]

Hate is something that keeps people busy, it has even been reduced to " Just something to do." As there are those who hate homosexuality, and busy themselves with that hate, keeping it active, there are those who hate the thought of there being a God, or a " Son of a God." In religion, people hate in the name of God, in the world of hate, people need no reason to hate, no name to hate, just a direction to focus the hate.

So I want to go into hate, its unusual reality, its inner meaning, and its true source.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Many will not believe this, but hate is just as present as Love is, perhaps moreso. The self righteous will never admit to the hate thats in them, but its there. Hate is very common, inspite of those in denial of its presence. Its like the lemon in lemonade, it just mask itself, to appear sweeter than it is.

And it lives in many believers, as well as unbelievers. And its more to it than meets the eye.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

There are things that God himself hates. To even try to imagine Gods hate is difficult, because it is not like human hatred. But it proves that one can have a certain kind of hatred, but that hate not be involved with sin.

So the overly spiritual people don't have to act as if they hold no hatred. There are " excuses for your hate."

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Don't you just hate it when an insect flys up your nose? Don't you just hate it when the power fails right in the middle of your favorite program? Or when your pet knocks over and breaks an expensive pottery you just purchased? Don't you just hate it! When some other  person openly flirts with your mate. And when your mate seems to like it, doesn't that just bug you?  Or when you just can't seem to shake off this particular  sin that you just keep doing sooner or later, don't you just hate that?

Can you begin to see how hatred can show up, but not always involve sin or wrong doing. It could just be there, boiling within you, a justifiable part of you. Well this is the way the demonic world looks to further introduce you to hate, and cause it to manifest itself through more defective channels. Get you to hate without sin, then gradually introduce you to higher levels of hate.

" Shift you into different gears of hate."

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

We can hate and not sin. That much is simply true. God hates certain things himself, the scripture even goes as far as listing six of them. So he hates more than one thing.  Strongly dislikes those things, ( a lying tounge, a person who bears false witness, the hand that sheds innocent blood, ect..). Interesting ins't it, God boiling over concerning certain things. But no! God has perfect control, so his hatred of those things is perfect! Meaning he DOES NOT BOIL OVER, as if he is now in an emotional fit of rage, which causes him to think and do things not under control. And listen, the doctrine of Eternal hell punishing, is a doctrine that describes Gods rage as out of control. God doing something without thinking about the eternal ramifications it would have on its sufferers, eventually driving them insane under any kind of way you choose to examine this. For God to hate sin so much, that he would eternally punish humans  for it, is actually  giving his hatred eternity within itself, or within him. Although it still is not a sin for God to hate sin,  would it be a sin for God to eternal punish sinners?

And I want to touch on that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

God cannot sin, but if anyonelse  choose to punish a group of humans forever, would they be sinning? There are no possible ways to create a circumstance where God could be said to have sinned, not even in the imaginary world. Its just not possible.

Just another reason eternal hell punishment is not possible, because it would open the imaginary door to pinning some nonsense on God.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

The world can hate Jesus and God, and not consider that a sin. It is God who sets the standards of sin, they refuse his standards of judgement, so their hate is not confined by Gods standards. Not being defined by God, the world can hate, and not even consider their hate, as being hate, but just a " Right of humanity", the precursor of free will.  Thus the world can hate Jesus, and not even know they are doing that. We can be deceived into hateing, and not even know we are doing that, even feeling it. It can thus be surpressed and hidden deep within, and just pop out at sundry times. Or just stay on the surface and mask itself as somethingelse, like Atheisim or devil worship. Express itself, against God, by adhereing to a fad or something unreal or unethical.



Peace.

[adam]

Great thread! 

The brightest Light casts the darkest shadow.  Its not even necessary expose evil to be hated.  People want equality, and folk inclined to jealously will make comparisons when they encounter someone who  in Love more wholeheartedly that they do, even if that person is truly humble. 

We'll only have equality in heaven , where we'll all have been fully cleansed of sin, and all the reasons to hate will be gone.