In John 15:18 Jesus said that if the World hates you, know that it hated him first. But why? Why would the World hate Jesus? What did he do to deserve such a thing as hate? I mean if you look at his life , as recorded by the bible, what did he do to draw such a thing as hate out of humans? And what will believers be doing to bring hatred out of humanity for them?
If a world would hate a person like Jesus, I'm sorry, that just does not speak much good for the world. I mean a world like that would be hard to live in. But thats what we have. We have to live in a world that hates a person like Jesus. That don't say much for our world.
In addition to this, Jesus said in vs 19, that because he calls and chooses a human, just because of that, the world will hate that human. So one of the Christ given identitys of knowing you are called of God, is to know that you are hated by men. People will hate you, for no reason other than they sense that they should. And if they somehow know that you are called, they will hate you for that calling, which is a " Sure Revelation" that one day God will reveal to the world who he has called and chosen.
We are living in a world that hates Jesus, don't fool yourself, this aint no picnic.
But again, WHY? I mean really, why would anyone hate Jesus?
Well I want to go into those reasons why people would hate Jesus. Its much to learn from this. This most unusual dynamic.
Peace.
The world hates being exposed for it's sin:
"And this is the condemnation, that light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light; because their deeds were evil" John 3-19
The truth hurts, and the truth is that there is not one righteous among us.
It is a spiritual hatred; spiritual truth pricking the hearts of sinners. Even us who receive the truth are first pricked and convicted(which is not fun). Traditions, religions, and fleshly reasoning exposed for what they are...........
They hate him because he's good and they're not.
1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
But who is the world? Seems in the bible the ones that hated Jesus were religious people.
Interesting responses, all of which I agree with. Another reason the world hates Jesus is because they believe his story, is the greatest story ever sold. There have been others born way before Christ, who claimed to be the son of God. There have been prophets and leaders who had 12 diciples, were supposedly born of a virgin, born under the signs of astrology that held simular aspects to Jesus story, and many other unusual simularitys. Some of them very interesting indeed , in my view.
But the world thinks is just an often repeated story that dupes the minds and hearts of unsuspecting believers. Because of Hope, they think we have accepted Jesus story as " The Real One", and have locked in on that.
So they hate the Jesus story, because they feel its a multi repeated story since the dwan of Man.
Peace.
The common folks sealed his death warrant. Pilate wanted to release him.
20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
--Mat 27
Quote from: Mickiel on January 02, 2009, 07:37:59 PM
Interesting responses, all of which I agree with. Another reason the world hates Jesus is because they believe his story, is the greatest story ever sold. There have been others born way before Christ, who claimed to be the son of God. There have been prophets and leaders who had 12 diciples, were supposedly born of a virgin, born under the signs of astrology that held simular aspects to Jesus story, and many other unusual simularitys. Some of them very interesting indeed , in my view.
But the world thinks is just an often repeated story that dupes the minds and hearts of unsuspecting believers. Because of Hope, they think we have accepted Jesus story as " The Real One", and have locked in on that.
So they hate the Jesus story, because they feel its a multi repeated story since the dwan of Man.
Peace.
I don't think the average person knows of any other stories.
In fact, all the great religions of the world voice complete respect for Jesus as a holy man, great teacher, etc. even if they don't believe he is what he said he was.
Another reason the world hates Jesus, is the way he waited so long to come, and then he left and went away. They hate the mystery of that, the seemingly " Aloftness" of that, which I can understand. Absence makes the heart grow founder, or it can make it hate.
The World hates Jesus because he had the gall to wait so long to come, then come in the flesh, and then leave without establishing the Kingdom of God on earth.
They really hate this.
Peace.
One of the most profound reasons that the world hates Jesus, is that he " Allows so much sin and Evil." And I think this to be one of the more popular reasons that the world hates Jesus. They figure, and rightly so, that if there was or is a Jesus, that he must have the Power to change all of this, but he has not.
So they hate that.
Peace.
Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 02, 2009, 07:45:28 PM
Quote from: Molly on January 02, 2009, 07:39:30 PM
The common folks sealed his death warrant. Pilate wanted to release him.
20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
--Mat 27
I disagree, the sinners sat with him, Pilate is a poor example, He even agreed He done nothing worthy of death. He might have handed him over to their will but it wasnt his will, he just went along with the crowd,
Yes, during his ministry, the common people loved him. The week before his death they were singing Hosannah at his entrance to Jerusalem. But, they were easily swayed by their leaders when Pilate agreed to let the crowd decide which prisoner to release. The crowd decided to release Barabbus and kill Jesus. It was the crowd who made the final decision. As to the psychology of it, it seems more a comment on the mob mentality of sheep, and the bloodthirstiness of mobs.
Pilate was trying to find a way to release him, and he thought that the passover ritual of releasing one prisoner to the crowd would work, because he knew Jesus was innocent of any wrongdoing. Plus Pilate's wife had had a dream about Jesus and was pressuring him to release him.
Another reason the world hates Jesus, is because God the Father has not pumped this world full of Love. Actually then God is one reason this world hates Jesus, because he has locked this world into a mentality that is not indusive to Christ Love.
And I think this to be the most powerful reason that the world hates Jesus, a serious lack of Gods Spirit to instill the Love. Conversely, this is one of the reasons I personally believe in the Salvation of All. If all were locked into this existence, then all deserve to be unlocked into Salvation.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 02, 2009, 07:49:29 PM
One of the most profound reasons that the world hates Jesus, is that he " Allows so much sin and Evil." And I think this to be one of the more popular reasons that the world hates Jesus. They figure, and rightly so, that if there was or is a Jesus, that he must have the Power to change all of this, but he has not.
So they hate that.
Peace.
You mean the world is the good guys and Jesus is the bad guy? You mean like a bad God?
Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 02, 2009, 07:54:31 PM
Quote from: Molly on January 02, 2009, 07:52:40 PM
Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 02, 2009, 07:45:28 PM
Quote from: Molly on January 02, 2009, 07:39:30 PM
The common folks sealed his death warrant. Pilate wanted to release him.
20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
--Mat 27
I disagree, the sinners sat with him, Pilate is a poor example, He even agreed He done nothing worthy of death. He might have handed him over to their will but it wasnt his will, he just went along with the crowd,
Yes, during his ministry, the common people loved him.
Glad you agree then
I never said I didn't. But, obviously being loved by the common people didn't count for much since it was they who sealed his death warrant.
Another reason Jesus is hated, or any savior would be hated, is because he didnot remove the government of oppressors. It does not matter how much the people Love you personally, if you cannot remove them from oppression, eventually that Love will turn into hate in many of them.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 02, 2009, 08:00:51 PM
Another reason Jesus is hated, or any savior would be hated, is because he didnot remove the government of oppressors. It does not matter how much the people Love you personally, if you cannot remove them from oppression, eventually that Love will turn into hate in many of them.
Peace.
And, they themselves have nothing to do with the government of oppressors?
A more ingrained reason Jesus is hated, is because of what he stood for. Because , you know, the world seriously lacks the things Jesus stood for. He stood for Love and Peace, patience and forgiveness, Goodness and mercy, and salvation to all of mankind. In order to Love Jesus, the world would NEED those qualitys, or they will just naturally ( or carnally) hate Jesus. So I begin to see a most interesting thing developing about the worlds hate for Jesus. God has more to do with it than most would understand.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
God is an awesome incredible Power, no doubt there. He is truly unique and magnanamous. Frightens me a little, to at times consider him. I have gone into deep meditation, considering him, but always get to a point that I just back off in fear. I just can't go further, too scared to go on. Afraid of what might be there.
God intimidates me, no question about that. He is the greatest Power that I know of, that I don't know. Rather impersonal and discreet, Jesus is just about the same way. These are more reasons that the world hates them. The world thinks their sitting there just doing nothing about our existence.
If the world had Patience, it could learn to Love God in his absence.
But understand this about the fruits of the Spirit in Galations 5:22-23, every fruit listed, requires that you have those fruits in order to understand those things in fullness. Remember that. It takes Love in you, to fully understand Love outside of you. Goodness must be in you to fully comprehend Goodness outside of you. And so on with all of the fruits.
The world has been denied all of these fruits, so they cannot Love God or Christ. This is the major reason the world hates Jesus. And I want to get into that.
Peace.
[quote author=Mickiel link=
The world has been denied all of these fruits, so they cannot Love God or Christ. This is the major reason the world hates Jesus. And I want to get into that.
Peace.
[/quote]
Those of you who study Universal Salvation, this is one of its most credible truths for your mind to consider. The world has been denied all of the fruits of the Spirit, so how can God judge a world like this, based on his Spirit? God judges according to his Spirit. He judges in righteousness, goodness, Love and self control. He examines all things based on Joy and Peace, he interpits things based on Gentleness and Patience. IF what he is judging has NONE of these qualitys, what is there to judge? And if they NEVER had these qualitys, why is he judging them?
There is ingrained hatred in the world because of this.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
"Every Journey begins with a first step, and every step is it's own journey."
Therefore, Be ye patient before ye become one!
1: bearing pains or trials calmly or without complaint.
2: manifesting forbearance under provocation or strain.
3: not hasty or impetuous.
4: steadfast despite opposition, difficulty, or adversity.
5: willing to bear with others.
And remember: "LOVE NEVER FAILS."
peacemaker
Mickiel,
Happy new year. How timely your thread is for me. I won't go into specifics about it now, but I sure can relate to this thread big time.
So glad to come here and find you are still posting here.
with love,
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on January 03, 2009, 06:51:36 AM
Mickiel,
Happy new year. How timely your thread is for me. I won't go into specifics about it now, but I sure can relate to this thread big time.
So glad to come here and find you are still posting here.
with love,
Anne
Greetings Anne,
Its been a while, good to see you are here also.
Another reason the World hates Christ, is because he is the Living Word of God. Because he is Truth, and people just hate the truth. In John 17:14, again Jesus;" I have given them thy word and the World has Hated them, because they are not of this World, even as I am not of this World. Thus another reason the World Hates Christ, because he is not of this World.
Its like hating someone because they are from another planet. You hate them because really they are not like you. Humans can hate each other simply because they are different from each other. Different colors, different races and different cultures. Be different, and be hated. Much of this World hates God because they sense he must be different than us if he exist. This is ingrained hatred, hate that comes from the very heart and soul of humanity.
From this hate , humans will try to fight God in the future, its why satan will find it easy to seduce humanity one last time in the comming ages of change.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
[quote author=Mickiel
From this hate , humans will try to fight God in the future, its why satan will find it easy to seduce humanity one last time in the comming ages of change.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
[/quote]
In Revelations 20:7-9, the 1000 year period of a Kingdom Age is at its end, satan is loosed and he gathers an incredible amount of humans, the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And he easily deceives them into fighting against God. You ever wonder why? How can satan so quickly get away with this? After so long of a period of Peace and Gods rule?
Well one reason is deeply rooted hate that festers still inside of humans. Hate that really didnot go away, but was just waiting for the right moment to explode. He didnot get these humans from the camp of the Saints, but from the general populus of the Kingdom. Something had to have already been within these humans for satan to be suscessful in getting them to obey him. I think its deeply rooted hate for God and Christ. Hate that was never really removed by God, who again shows his great patience here, because we already know he must have knew about this. There has never been a rebellion that God didnot foreknew. So there is a lesson here that God is teaching. A lesson about human hatred.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
In Psalms 139:21, David writes;" Do I not Hate those who Hate thee O Lord? Who rise up against thee? I Hate them with the utmost Hatred." Because of Hatred humans rise up against God. They are enemys of God. Betraying their own maker, who is far more powerful than them all combined. Many people Hate God, and this is why they need God to be, just as merciful and Loving as he really is, because only Love counters Hatred.
And this is the " Other" that God is showing. The Evil, which stands oppisite of the Good, again , the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
1John 3:13;" Do not be tripped out, brethren, if the World Hates you." Don't let this blow your mind, hatred is very real. Everyone who Hates is a potential murderer, vs.15, from this state of mind, there is no evil that is not possible. This is the constant condition of satans mind, and not only him, but all demons. They hate God, which is why they go after believers so hard. Yet David hates those who hate God, because there is a time to Hate, Eccl. 3:8, and a time to Love as well. It is the Love of God that is planned on dealing ultimately with Hate.
And I think the creation of humanity, IS Gods way of ultimately dealing with Hate. Yes I said that, WE are the componants that God created to eventually destroy Hate. And I want you to consider this as I go into this most interesting opportunity for you to learn something of intrest.
Peace.
[quote author=Mickiel
And I think the creation of humanity, IS Gods way of ultimately dealing with Hate. Yes I said that, WE are the componants that God created to eventually destroy Hate. And I want you to consider this as I go into this most interesting opportunity for you to learn something of intrest.
Peace.
[/quote]
I think it would be easy for a believer to accept that God multitask's in many of his doings. Not only duality, but multi reasonant levels will come out of just one thing that he does. Just Life itself is I think the most Powerful creation of God. At times I almost think that God didnot " Create humanity" like he did Angels, but its more of a " Birth", but its confusing, because the actual first stage was a creation of a man and woman, and then they birthed the " Birth Chain of all of humanity", which will later be Born again into Gods Kingdom. So even our human conception was and is a multi task leveled thing.
One of the reasons God created humanity, was to develop and destroy the concept of Evil. With the creation of Man, God will introduce Evil, sin and all things against his Goodness, expose them, and ultimately destroy them. And this is just one reason we were created. And right now we cannot be seperated from that reason. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is why the Wheat cannot be seperated from the Tare.
And these both growing together, is just another reason the World hates Jesus.
Peace.
Why would the world hate Jesus, well because of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, or the growth of Love and Hate. The building influence of Love and Hate, or the Tree. The Tree is the influence of Love and Hate, remember that.
Genesis 2:9;" And out of the ground the Lord CAUSED to GROW every tree, including the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God Caused, meaning he wanted to produce an effect. Cause, that from which anything proceeds or the orgin. The " Motive". Gods Motive in creating Good and Evil, or Love and Hate, is that he intended for them both to grow and produce the effect that we now see. So one reason the world Hates Jesus, is because of Gods orginal Motive. And this is what proceeded from the garden of Eden, its why Adam failed. Its why Eve did what she did.
And I want to dig deeper into that.
Peace.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on January 02, 2009, 07:20:25 PM
But who is the world? Seems in the bible the ones that hated Jesus were religious people.
Hiya!
I just read this!
Amazing how simple observations really change the outlook of what exactly the WORLD is.
:happy3: :winkgrin:
As a representative of the world I'd like to know why it is I hate neither you Christians nor Jesus?
Jeff - The Agnostic Universalist.
Quote from: JeffA on January 07, 2009, 02:09:55 PM
As a representative of the world I'd like to know why it is I hate neither you Christians nor Jesus?
Jeff - The Agnostic Universalist.
As the person best avialible to answer yourself, why don't you explain to us why you do not hate.
I am like yourself, I do not hate Jesus or the World, but I agree with the bible in its observation that the world hates God, and I agree with its understanding that they hate Jesus also. Thats why they killed him once, and will try to kill him again AFTER the 1000 year period of Peace om earth.
I often wonder just how much hate is really in me. I tend to hate sin, evil and how that effects me and this world.
I also hate fruitcake.
Peace.
I hate the fact that God hides himself. I hate that God has decided to take so long to return. I hate that I am powerless to change the things I want changed in this world, and in the bible. I hate certain things that I do, so hate gets into me, but I really do not know hate that well, just as I do not know Love all that well.
But thats another reason why we hate, because we just don't know what we are doing. The world hates God because they don't know what they are doing. The world killed Jesus because they didnot know what they were doing.
Interesting, a person can kill, and not even understand why. Or can hate and not know why.
Peace.
OK.
here goes..
I think that there are many atheists/agnostics (Dawkins and Hitchens for example) who could fairly be said to hate Christianity (though you would be hard pressed to make me believe they hate Christians). Most humanists are happy to espouse views not unlike Christians in that they think it is beneficial for us all to live in peace and harmony.
The biblical idea of the world hating God is when people do not align with all of God's attitudes to all things (willingly I mean not against their wills). So I guess the fact that I don't believe that homosexuals deserve any kind of discrimination (for example - not all christians will agree) probably puts me into enmity with God - but I certainly don't hate Him or Christians.
Quote from: JeffA on January 13, 2009, 06:27:54 PM
OK.
here goes..
I think that there are many atheists/agnostics (Dawkins and Hitchens for example) who could fairly be said to hate Christianity (though you would be hard pressed to make me believe they hate Christians). Most humanists are happy to espouse views not unlike Christians in that they think it is beneficial for us all to live in peace and harmony.
The biblical idea of the world hating God is when people do not align with all of God's attitudes to all things (willingly I mean not against their wills). So I guess the fact that I don't believe that homosexuals deserve any kind of discrimination (for example - not all christians will agree) probably puts me into enmity with God - but I certainly don't hate Him or Christians.
Why would you believe that not agreeing with the discrimination that is heaped on homosexuals would put you into enmity with God? I am curious, why do you think that? If this is the approach toward God that you have learned, I would seriously question that image you have allowed into your mind. I believe God himself does not want discrimination against homosexuals, or any kind toward any human.
Usually, distorted views of God, come from distorted believers of God, that is the orgin of religious distortion, it has come from believers, not unbelievers. The hadicap of the truth has been spread by believers of God.
Most people who hate God, don't know it or willnot admit it, its kind of like a closet hatred. Deep inside they really blame God for many things that they just don't like. They even curse him, some in their dying breath.
And I tell you, some of their hatred was developed by the way certain believers have spread their rediculous doctrines around this planet.
Peace.
I did say (for example - not all Christians will agree)
But perhaps a better example would be my atheism. All Christians would surely agree that by disbelieving in God I am putting myself in enmity with Him (if He does, contrary to my conclusion, exist). But I still hate God no more than I hate the Tooth Fairy or Zeus or Osiris (all of whom Christians can only be agnostic about - they cannot prove absolutely that they do not exist otherwise they have to allow me the same courtesy in regard to their deity).
Quote from: JeffA on January 14, 2009, 03:47:47 PM
I did say (for example - not all Christians will agree)
But perhaps a better example would be my atheism. All Christians would surely agree that by disbelieving in God I am putting myself in enmity with Him (if He does, contrary to my conclusion, exist). But I still hate God no more than I hate the Tooth Fairy or Zeus or Osiris (all of whom Christians can only be agnostic about - they cannot prove absolutely that they do not exist otherwise they have to allow me the same courtesy in regard to their deity).
Well I disagree with those christians who would say that. You are an Atheist because thats what your supposed to be. You admit to not being hostile toward God, what reason has God to be hostile toward you, just because you do not believe in him? What kind of being do you think God is? Not likeing someone because they don't like you is a human charactheristic, God is not human. God has no ill will toward Atheist. He loves you just as much as any believer .
God could careless about what you believe or do not believe. That is no concern of his. His power is far greater than you know, much greater than your unbelief. And one day you will come to know that. Just not today. God controls the day of your belief, just as he controls the days of your unbelief. You are Atheist, because thats what he wants you to be.
You, and I, will be what he wants us to be. When he wants us to be it.
Thats just how it is.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 14, 2009, 08:41:13 PM
You admit to not being hostile toward God, what reason has God to be hostile toward you
Where did I say or imply that God hated me?
Quote from: Mickiel on January 14, 2009, 08:41:13 PM
God controls the day of your belief, just as he controls the days of your unbelief. You are Atheist, because thats what he wants you to be.
You, and I, will be what he wants us to be. When he wants us to be it.
Thats just how it is.
Peace.
I appreciate the sentiment but that only your opinion of just how it is.
Best regards..
Quote from: JeffA on January 15, 2009, 12:34:05 PM
Quote from: Mickiel on January 14, 2009, 08:41:13 PM
You admit to not being hostile toward God, what reason has God to be hostile toward you
Where did I say or imply that God hated me?
Quote from: Mickiel on January 14, 2009, 08:41:13 PM
God controls the day of your belief, just as he controls the days of your unbelief. You are Atheist, because thats what he wants you to be.
You, and I, will be what he wants us to be. When he wants us to be it.
Thats just how it is.
Peace.
I appreciate the sentiment but that only your opinion of just how it is.
Best regards..
Don't misunderstand me, that was not sentiment, it is exactly what I believe, no emotion involved. These are facts, based on my understanding of God. God wanted there to be a certain amount of believers, a certain amount of unbelievers in this world, this century. He wanted a certain numerical amount of women, of men, of Atheist, of Catholics, of baptist, of whites, of blacks, of asians, and he filled that quota himself. For his own reasons.
You are Atheist because God wanted you to be one for his own reasons. He formed and shaped your mind to think exactly how you do. And you will stay in that frame of mind until he releases you.
Peace.
I think you misunderstand me - you are claiming absolute certainty of knowledge that your version of 'how things really are' is absolute truth. I am saying that it is only your opinion that it is the absolute truth. In other words inside your brain, it may coincide with absolute reality but there again it might not, but you cannot claim absolute knowing or you would be claiming to BE God. As a Christian you 'see through a glass darkly' as Paul said.
I understand what you are saying I just dispute your claim to perfect and absolute certainty about how you think reality is.
Best wishes (no animosity intended).
Quote from: JeffA on January 16, 2009, 11:16:06 AM
I think you misunderstand me - you are claiming absolute certainty of knowledge that your version of 'how things really are' is absolute truth. I am saying that it is only your opinion that it is the absolute truth. In other words inside your brain, it may coincide with absolute reality but there again it might not, but you cannot claim absolute knowing or you would be claiming to BE God. As a Christian you 'see through a glass darkly' as Paul said.
I understand what you are saying I just dispute your claim to perfect and absolute certainty about how you think reality is.
Best wishes (no animosity intended).
No animosity felt.
I am not a Christian, don't misunderstand me. These are the facts as I understand them, I have never claimed to have absolute knowledge, but I offer what I have, and I absolutely believe it. As of today, I absolutely believe everything I have told you. I neither would waste your time or mind telling things that I do not believe. If I was unsure, I would say I am unsure.
I can say without a doubt, that you are an Atheist, because God wanted you to be one. If he wanted you to be a rabbitt, you would have been one. If he wanted me to be a fish, I would have been one.
There have been no mistakes, God has made no errors, we are what we are, because thats what he wanted us to be. He is just that Powerful, and I am sure of it.
Peace.
I think we will just go round in circles so let's agree to disagree (thanks for the discussion) :grin:
Quote from: JeffA on January 21, 2009, 11:28:37 AM
I think we will just go round in circles so let's agree to disagree (thanks for the discussion) :grin:
Your welcome.
Peace.
Hi Mickiel
John 7;7 Therefore Jesus told them, 'the right time for me
has not yet come,for you anytime is right. The world can not
hate you,but it hates me BECAUSE I TESTIFY THAT WHAT IT
DOES IS EVIL
John 3;19 This is the verdict, light has come into the world
but men loved darkness instead of the light, because their
deeds were evil.
Exposure of the evil intentions,sin and wickedness,really
ticked off the religious leaders. Their hypocrisy as spiritual
leaders was exposed.
Do the same thing today,and you'll be hated
Sheila
Quote from: sheila on January 22, 2009, 04:19:57 AM
Hi Mickiel
John 7;7 Therefore Jesus told them, 'the right time for me
has not yet come,for you anytime is right. The world can not
hate you,but it hates me BECAUSE I TESTIFY THAT WHAT IT
DOES IS EVIL
John 3;19 This is the verdict, light has come into the world
but men loved darkness instead of the light, because their
deeds were evil.
Exposure of the evil intentions,sin and wickedness,really
ticked off the religious leaders. Their hypocrisy as spiritual
leaders was exposed.
Do the same thing today,and you'll be hated
Sheila
Hello Sheila, so very true.
It ticks off unreligious people as well. People can love being evil, or being anti God, or anti anything that looks to establish good in the form of a God. They form their own views of Good which exclude God. We are of the group that believes, we gain a certain type of strength from that, they who do not believe, gain a certain type of strength from that group, they, like us, see themselves as set apart from what others believe.
They sense that they are " Called not to believe". They are correct, they simply follow their calling. Thats where they are supposed to be. We cannot pull each other to the calling, we only can bear witness to our own individual influence. The great force will determine our direction.
This is simply how it is.
This is wisdom.
We can argue and dispute wisdom, but in the end, it will have its way.
Peace.
:thumbsup:
Hate is something that keeps people busy, it has even been reduced to " Just something to do." As there are those who hate homosexuality, and busy themselves with that hate, keeping it active, there are those who hate the thought of there being a God, or a " Son of a God." In religion, people hate in the name of God, in the world of hate, people need no reason to hate, no name to hate, just a direction to focus the hate.
So I want to go into hate, its unusual reality, its inner meaning, and its true source.
Peace.
Many will not believe this, but hate is just as present as Love is, perhaps moreso. The self righteous will never admit to the hate thats in them, but its there. Hate is very common, inspite of those in denial of its presence. Its like the lemon in lemonade, it just mask itself, to appear sweeter than it is.
And it lives in many believers, as well as unbelievers. And its more to it than meets the eye.
Peace.
There are things that God himself hates. To even try to imagine Gods hate is difficult, because it is not like human hatred. But it proves that one can have a certain kind of hatred, but that hate not be involved with sin.
So the overly spiritual people don't have to act as if they hold no hatred. There are " excuses for your hate."
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
Don't you just hate it when an insect flys up your nose? Don't you just hate it when the power fails right in the middle of your favorite program? Or when your pet knocks over and breaks an expensive pottery you just purchased? Don't you just hate it! When some other person openly flirts with your mate. And when your mate seems to like it, doesn't that just bug you? Or when you just can't seem to shake off this particular sin that you just keep doing sooner or later, don't you just hate that?
Can you begin to see how hatred can show up, but not always involve sin or wrong doing. It could just be there, boiling within you, a justifiable part of you. Well this is the way the demonic world looks to further introduce you to hate, and cause it to manifest itself through more defective channels. Get you to hate without sin, then gradually introduce you to higher levels of hate.
" Shift you into different gears of hate."
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
We can hate and not sin. That much is simply true. God hates certain things himself, the scripture even goes as far as listing six of them. So he hates more than one thing. Strongly dislikes those things, ( a lying tounge, a person who bears false witness, the hand that sheds innocent blood, ect..). Interesting ins't it, God boiling over concerning certain things. But no! God has perfect control, so his hatred of those things is perfect! Meaning he DOES NOT BOIL OVER, as if he is now in an emotional fit of rage, which causes him to think and do things not under control. And listen, the doctrine of Eternal hell punishing, is a doctrine that describes Gods rage as out of control. God doing something without thinking about the eternal ramifications it would have on its sufferers, eventually driving them insane under any kind of way you choose to examine this. For God to hate sin so much, that he would eternally punish humans for it, is actually giving his hatred eternity within itself, or within him. Although it still is not a sin for God to hate sin, would it be a sin for God to eternal punish sinners?
And I want to touch on that.
Peace.
God cannot sin, but if anyonelse choose to punish a group of humans forever, would they be sinning? There are no possible ways to create a circumstance where God could be said to have sinned, not even in the imaginary world. Its just not possible.
Just another reason eternal hell punishment is not possible, because it would open the imaginary door to pinning some nonsense on God.
Peace.
The world can hate Jesus and God, and not consider that a sin. It is God who sets the standards of sin, they refuse his standards of judgement, so their hate is not confined by Gods standards. Not being defined by God, the world can hate, and not even consider their hate, as being hate, but just a " Right of humanity", the precursor of free will. Thus the world can hate Jesus, and not even know they are doing that. We can be deceived into hateing, and not even know we are doing that, even feeling it. It can thus be surpressed and hidden deep within, and just pop out at sundry times. Or just stay on the surface and mask itself as somethingelse, like Atheisim or devil worship. Express itself, against God, by adhereing to a fad or something unreal or unethical.
Peace.
Great thread!
The brightest Light casts the darkest shadow. Its not even necessary expose evil to be hated. People want equality, and folk inclined to jealously will make comparisons when they encounter someone who in Love more wholeheartedly that they do, even if that person is truly humble.
We'll only have equality in heaven , where we'll all have been fully cleansed of sin, and all the reasons to hate will be gone.
Listen to and examine something David said in Ps.139:21-22;" Do I not hate those who hate you Lord? Don't I hate those who rise up against you? I hate them with a perfect hatred, they have become my enemies." Interesting isn't it, this thing that David laments. He hates people who hate God. Do you think thats right? To hate someone because they hate God? And then to hate them with a " Pure and utmost hatred." Can you get to this? This thing David has said, these thoughts of a King.
Some of you think that not too many people hate God, and yet here we have hatred on the side of the believers, and a most important believer at that.
Hatred exist on both sides of the coin. But there are excuses for it. And I want to go into those excuses, and unmask them. Take the robe off of the emporer again.
Peace.
Which is worse, self righteous hate, or purely evil hate? Hate in the name of God, or hate in nobodys name?
One of the more popular statements is,; " I hate it when", and then we go from there. I hate it when I get bit by an insect, I hate it when it rains, I hate it when things get caught in my throat. I hate it, I hate it, it just goes on and on, as it comes out of our feelings. But we feel like this is being "Like God", knowing good and evil, so we hate by " Devine Right." We hate the evil. But whats evil about an insect bite? Whats evil about food being logged in your throat? Whats evil about it raining? No, those things are not evil, but we hate these things, the hate just makes an excuse in your mind to exist for " Righteous Reasons."
And I want to touch on the righteous reasons to hate.
Peace.
The world hates Jesus because it has been slowly conditioned over the years to Hate. Slowly radiated with Hate from unseen evil beings, slowly exposed to one level of Hate, then trained to become subordinate to a rising temperture of Hate. Even allowing Hate to enter into them in the name of Righteousness.
Notice Gal. 5:19-20;" Now the deeds of the flesh are EVIDENT. Let me stop right here and state that the unseen powers of Evil , looks to attack believers in areas that are NOT evident! Some of us have enough trouble as it is with our " Evident Sins", so these beings are looking to seduce, and capture you with things that are not evident. Or take sin in you to another level, an unseen level.
Immorality, sorcery and drunkenness are evident, outburst of anger are evident, but the root cause of anger is not always evident. Or the orgin of your hate. All the strife that comes out of you when people rub you in the wrong way. The aittitude you take on when something threatens to diminish that spiritual picture of yourself that you have built up. Your thinking of yourself being important in Gods plans, and how you will bite anything which defers from that. How you would hate anything that denys you your coveting of Spiritual things.
And I want to go into why it is so easy for demons to seduce serious believers in God, using their own emotions.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel link=
And I want to go into why it is so easy for demons to seduce serious believers in God, using their own emotions.
Peace.
/quote]
You know why its so easy, because some of you have so much Pride in your Spirituality, that your heads are like baloons, filled with the air of your own belief, air which you think is the Spirit of God.
One of the reasons the world Hates Jesus, is because they are sick and tired of the way his believers are, the self righteousness of the church.
Peace.
QuoteIn addition to this, Jesus said in vs 19, that because he calls and chooses a human, just because of that, the world will hate that human. So one of the Christ given identitys of knowing you are called of God, is to know that you are hated by men. People will hate you, for no reason other than they sense that they should. And if they somehow know that you are called, they will hate you for that calling, which is a " Sure Revelation" that one day God will reveal to the world who he has called and chosen.
-mickiel
Nice, I love spiderman doctrines of reality.
Seriously you think this is a biblically sound concept built upon a foundation of wisdom and revelation?
A question for ya then.... what are you sensing in the up coming lotto numbers?
Read aspiring sons comments because that is a completely stronger and more reality based less mystical umderstanding.
Quote from: Dallas on February 13, 2009, 12:52:59 AM
Nice, I love spiderman doctrines of reality.
Seriously you think this is a biblically sound concept built upon a foundation of wisdom and revelation?
A question for ya then.... what are you sensing in the up coming lotto numbers?
Read aspiring sons comments because that is a completely stronger and more reality based less mystical umderstanding.
I hold no intrest in scarcasm, and suggest that this is simply not for you.
Peace to you anyhow.
QuoteI hold no intrest in scarcasm, and suggest that this is simply not for you.
What's not for me... the spirit? Because according to you then realisticaly not one person has the spirit... since indeed we would have to have a perfect display of perfected character and that is just not real.
You still havent explained where this doctrine of "sensing" comes from.
You said,
Quote"People will hate you, for no reason other than they sense that they should."
That's awfully mystical, not real. Where do you find this doctrine?
I think that's a valid question since you are proclaiming it with such strong language of authority.
Quote from: Dallas on February 17, 2009, 03:31:41 AM
QuoteI hold no intrest in scarcasm, and suggest that this is simply not for you.
What's not for me... the spirit? Because according to you then realisticaly not one person has the spirit... since indeed we would have to have a perfect display of perfected character and that is just not real.Quote
Well no, not the Spirit, the things I am writting may not be for you. Everything we read is not for us, meaning, if we do not understand something, what good is it for you? Its just not for you. I understand that everything I read is not for me. Doctrines themselves is the same. The doctrine of the Kingdom of God being now within, is not for me. The Homosexual lifestyle, is not for me. Gang Life is not for me. The upper class lifestyle is not for me. The Mormon religion is not for me. What I write is not for everyone.
Quote
You still havent explained where this doctrine of "sensing" comes from.
You said, Quote"People will hate you, for no reason other than they sense that they should."
That's awfully mystical, not real. Where do you find this doctrine?
I think that's a valid question since you are proclaiming it with such strong language of authority.
Its not a Doctrine, its not a religion, its reality as it is. Its wisdom. Its observation. It could be your next door neighbor. Its Karma. Its the Power of the being who surcharges the very air around the earth with a spirit of hate.
Peace.